View Full Version : Why did Sheedy put Johns in the backline?
mattdavies_03
12 May 2007, 10:56
I have no idea why Sheedy played Johns in the backline. We were getting dominated in the rucks, so the kangas were getting 1st possession. So Sheedy put him in the backline to stop the flow, and then when we did get good possessions in the middle, they had no-one to kick to because scotty was the only forward. Think about it, if we have 4 talls in the back(Paddy/Mal/Fletch/Mcphee) and one tall in the fwd line (Lucas) why would you drop back a forward capable of taking marks and kicking goals? If i'm missing something can someone tell me?
Butch16210
12 May 2007, 11:34
I think the more important question is: Why is he on our list?
Longy413
12 May 2007, 11:42
You answered your own question...
We were getting beaten in the ruck and Johns moving back released Ryder forward and into the ruck rotation.
Johns didn't get beated down back.
Johns didn't get beated down back.
His poor lateral movement will make him a liability down back, in fact he is a liability wherever he plays.
Johns is a one trick pony and that one trick isnt much chop. He plays on train tracks and is useless once the footy hits the deck.
If Gumby was fit courtney would be bendigo bound.
dave_27
12 May 2007, 11:46
I dont think there is space for Johns and Mal in the one defence, abit top heavy to be honest.
Longy413
12 May 2007, 11:52
His poor lateral movement will make him a liability down back, in fact he is a liability wherever he plays.
Johns is a one trick pony and that one trick isnt much chop. He plays on train tracks and is useless once the footy hits the deck.
If Gumby was fit courtney would be bendigo bound.
Johns needs to play footy, we're 12 months away from finding out whether he's up to it.
He earnt his spot in the seniors.
My point was to highlight the contradiction in the opening post. Johns going back was all about giving us a lift in the ruck and releasing Ryder.
Can't have your cake and eat it to.
Johns did nothing wrong down back.
troybond
12 May 2007, 12:00
There is an easy answer. Because he can't play in the forward line..........actually come 2 think of it......he can't play at all. Seriouslly why do you still have this hack on your list?
For you guys 2 move forward as a club i think:
SHEEDY should not be given another contract.
Fringe players like Johns,Heffernan,Bolton,Cole,Camporeale,Johnson boys and Micheal should be delisted or told to retire.
Johns needs to play footy, we're 12 months away from finding out whether he's up to it.
He has too many flaws in his game to amount to anything at AFL level. Still i can wait another year for a miracle to happen.
I dont think there is space for Johns and Mal in the one defence, abit top heavy to be honest.
I dont think there is space for Johns, Mal, McPhee, Fletcher, Ryder in the one defence, abit top heavy to be honest.
Johns is being thrown around a little too much due to team balance, which isnt doing him any favours at all.
however, when given half a chance, I think he has been fine.
It is clear as day that johns will play his best footy out of the goal square. He has all the makings, fast off the mark, big and strong and can take a contested mark, and kicks well. I would suggest that in the times this season he has been given half a chance as playing this role, he has probably held his own or done better 80% of the time.
I think he should be played out of the goal square, with Lucas has a mobile CHF to be perfectly honest. Unlike Lucas, who can be manhandled, Johns is freakishly strong and can be used deep, in a contest, or on a lead. Suddnely we have Lucas giving an option in the CHF area, with Johns at FF.
Getting it down to Johns at FF QUICKLY, will present at extremely challenging scenario for any defender, even at Johns' current football age development wise. Thing is, he is being given no hope at all at present.
Norf chucked it on the boot and got it into their forwardline quickly on many occasions which gave relatively blue collar forwards great opportunities, which often they took. We only started to do this in the last quarter. Why cant we go long to FF with Johns one out?
We seem to be so afraid to kick to anything looking like a contest, that it is giving Johns no hope. Either Johns has 5 metres on his opponent, or we arent using him.
With Lloyd out, play him out of the goalsquare and use him. Definitely something to work with there.
And if we arent going to play him out of the goalsquare at AFL level, play him there at VFL level. He needs games, games and more games. Remember, since being drafted, he has probably not played many more games of football (any level) than an average 19 year old, as has been discussed in another thread.
J.Hetfield
12 May 2007, 13:14
Courtney Johns is a FF so we should play him at FF and bomb it in or him him onthe lead and let him do his thing..He is quite capable..he belongs on our list..And he will be next year.
NathanS
12 May 2007, 13:17
I don't think he's ever going to be a permanent down back. However it is important that he becomes flexible and more then a one-trick pony.
As for him having no future: this I disagree with. Certainly he's not currently showing enough, but he's not being overtly beaten, like someone like Kepler Bradley was. I've seen some encouraging things from him - he's only played 17 games. How long did it take Stanton or Winders to come good? I remember people saying they had no future. They've played more then twice as many games.
It is unrealistic to think he's going to set the world on fire at this early stage of his career when he's still learning where to run, and what to do.
djharps
12 May 2007, 13:26
i have faith in the kid.. he is learning and from what i am seeing he is having a fair crack.. and steamrolls others so at least he has a bit of moungrel in him that i miss watching... probably the only player on our list not afraid of dishing it out is andrew welsh.. probabl one of my favourite players.. as long as its legit ;)
bomberstomake8
12 May 2007, 13:27
His poor lateral movement will make him a liability down back, in fact he is a liability wherever he plays.
Johns is a one trick pony and that one trick isnt much chop. He plays on train tracks and is useless once the footy hits the deck.
If Gumby was fit courtney would be bendigo bound.
yeah i think so too.... his definately got potential as a FF but i just dont like his work ethic, doesnt make enough quality leads.... his had his chance to stand up the last 2 weeks, hasnt done much at all so kick out the bigboys in laycock and johns, bring in lloyd hopefully and NLM
Johns needs to play footy, we're 12 months away from finding out whether he's up to it.
He earnt his spot in the seniors.
My point was to highlight the contradiction in the opening post. Johns going back was all about giving us a lift in the ruck and releasing Ryder.
Can't have your cake and eat it to.
Johns did nothing wrong down back.
He was rarely sighted. I think he only had 2 effective spoils much earlier on. He's only the token back up whilst Lloyd is out....adds nothing else otherwise.
go team
12 May 2007, 13:37
If Gumby was fit courtney would be bendigo bound.
Better hope Gumby performs straight away - no finding his place in the team for me! If he aint dominating within 5-10 games he's bendigo bound.
Strike Swiftly
12 May 2007, 14:11
because sheeds is losing his marbles.
kelvin_sheedy
12 May 2007, 15:26
You answered your own question...
We were getting beaten in the ruck and Johns moving back released Ryder forward and into the ruck rotation.
Johns didn't get beated down back.
Did you not see the easy side step Grant put on him to score a goal. :confused:
Deflating stuff.
He hasn't played enough footy and I wouldn't give him many more games this year. Let him develop in the VFL and when he is dominating for a sustained period then bring him more.
Much more value currently to have Kelper roaming the forward 50 and Lucas at FF.
Better hope Gumby performs straight away - no finding his place in the team for me! If he aint dominating within 5-10 games he's bendigo bound.
To be honest even if Gumby was fit he wouldnt be ready to do squat in the seniors. He had a few good games for Bendigo but it was simply the fact that he could take a few marks that made him stand out. Apart from that he has done nothing else football wise to show he is remotly ready for senior footy. His last game showed that if he is played close and cant take a grab he is pretty much ineffective at this stage as he gets knocked out of the contest too easily by bigger blokes.
Did you not see the easy side step Grant put on him to score a goal. :confused:
Deflating stuff.
Oh my Grant can do that to other midfielders. Most big blokes are easily side stepped by the small ones ;)
DapperDon
12 May 2007, 18:22
Much more value currently to have Kelper roaming the forward 50 and Lucas at FF.
I know we are angry right now, so i'll pretend you didn't say that.:cool:
donsman4eva
12 May 2007, 19:31
I thought Johns was alright down back. He didnt really get beaten, and he showed good endeavour in trying to chase down players a few times.
stander
12 May 2007, 21:00
I thought Johns was alright down back. He didnt really get beaten, and he showed good endeavour in trying to chase down players a few times.
Yes, but Lucas got beaten too many times when Johns was moved. A conundrum that should have been avoided by the staff of the Dons. When will it all end ? Any idea Swervyn ?
Longy413
12 May 2007, 21:19
Did you not see the easy side step Grant put on him to score a goal. :confused:
Grant wasn't his opponent.
He's a 5 foot nothing midfielder, it isn't hard to get around a 6 foot 4 tall.
He would have stepped around Paddy Ryder.
The blokes played less than 20 senior games, he's played 30 games of footy in the last five years.
He's kicked five goals in his last three games in a side that has struggled to get the ball inside fifty, let alone give him a decent crack at beating his opponent one out.
He's worked his backside off the last few weeks.
He's got strong hands, he's got a great burst off the mark and he breaks packs.
But lets burn him at the stake.
Longy413
12 May 2007, 21:20
Yes, but Lucas got beaten too many times when Johns was moved. A conundrum that should have been avoided by the staff of the Dons. When will it all end ? Any idea Swervyn ?
Lucas had three shots at goal while Johns was on the bench.
stander
12 May 2007, 21:56
Lucas had three shots at goal while Johns was on the bench.
How may times did they clear it away from Lucas ?
Longy413
12 May 2007, 22:21
How may times did they clear it away from Lucas ?
When Monfries refused to man up and let his opponent play free infront of him?
kelvin_sheedy
13 May 2007, 22:02
Grant wasn't his opponent.
He's a 5 foot nothing midfielder, it isn't hard to get around a 6 foot 4 tall.
He would have stepped around Paddy Ryder.
The blokes played less than 20 senior games, he's played 30 games of footy in the last five years.
He's kicked five goals in his last three games in a side that has struggled to get the ball inside fifty, let alone give him a decent crack at beating his opponent one out.
He's worked his backside off the last few weeks.
He's got strong hands, he's got a great burst off the mark and he breaks packs.
But lets burn him at the stake.
He basically cheated out of that contest.
It was an attempted tackle of a player that lacks the conditioning to be a regular AFL footballer at the moment. No surprises considering the amount of football he has missed.
I'm not burning him at the stake. I think he can offer a fair bit. He has many great attributes but what he lacks is the fitness to play at AFL level. It's a lot easier to develop a fitness base than a skill base so there's a lot of upside for him.
Best way for him to get that is to have games at VFL level where he will be given %100 game time and used in positions with a bit more movement than just FF..... maybe CHF or ruck or CHB.
With Lloyd and Lucas in the side there is no position for Johns.
mustapha
14 May 2007, 09:59
I would like to see how he goes when we at least break even in the midfield. We look very good when we actually get a centre clearance but that is an extremely rare event. With the ball moving so slowly into the forward line what chance does he have?
why did he put him there? because he is a genius! Johns V Brown this week:thumbsu:
CjohnsRun
14 May 2007, 14:15
Let's Not forget the Really encouraging lead by johns off a Lucas kick only to get Cut of and spoiled by Brent Stanton.. 35m's out directly in front.. I am pretty sure in the 3rd 1/4 could hvae steadied us for a crack..
J.Hetfield
14 May 2007, 15:13
why did he put him there? because he is a genius! Johns V Brown this week:thumbsu:
Believe it ornot thats a possibility..Last year when we played them he was the only opponent on Brown that did not squirm once or refuse to apply body pressure..
When up forward Courtney like all other key forwards needs supply to look good..I dont think he is lazy either..Granted he runs out of petrol faster thena Lucas but the experince and games played in x amount of years explains that..
Believe it ornot thats a possibility..Last year when we played them he was the only opponent on Brown that did not squirm once or refuse to apply body pressure..
When up forward Courtney like all other key forwards needs supply to look good..I dont think he is lazy either..Granted he runs out of petrol faster thena Lucas but the experince and games played in x amount of years explains that..
finally someone speaking sense! johns does chase a hell of a lot