Richard Douglas- Assessment of his 2007 Season?

[Drummond]

Personally I have been less than impressed with Douglas this year, despite the rave reviews he has been getting from certain members of this forum. I’ve lost count how many times he has fumbled under pressure, chosen the wrong option, and lost his footing at the wrong time. Surely the fact that he continuously loses his footing is not a co-incidence? It should be looked at because he seems to lose it whenever he’s changing direction and trying to get around an opponent. Can’t put my finger on why exactly it’s happening.

Anyway, he was the youngest member of our team on Saturday night and whilst he can’t cop too much criticism, he shouldn’t exactly escape it either. I have been disappointed with him this season, especially considering his outstanding form in the SANFL last season and his solid pre-season. He’s averaging 12.42 possessions per game but his disposal is questionable at the best of times and he doesn’t look comfortable out there. The same could be said about Chris Knights during his first two seasons with the Crows, however what concerns me is that the things that were meant to be his strengths of his game in underage football, we haven’t seen. His overhead marking was a feature of his game, haven’t seen any evidence of this and with his short stature we may never. His composure was also highlighted, certainly nothing to suggest that to this point. Due to the fact he is slightly built and with the rapid pace of AFL football he may just take some time to adjust, but as I said it worries me that the perceived strengths in his game are not evident.

As soon as Reilly and Porplyzia are fit and available to return, he should be one of the first to make way. He’s obviously suited to the midfield however due to the fact our midfield has a fair amount of depth at the current point, he will struggle to return to the team if the above players make their way back in IMO.

[Stiffy_18]

No doubt he is struggling but I think that long term he will be a very good player for us.

For the time being, I think it would do him good to have some time in the SANFL.

[bus24]

He's made some mistakes, but from a young, very inexperienced player thats to be expected.

He's also done some very good things, that often go unnoticed because they are the hard 1%ers.

Some time in the SANFL would be handy, for him to go back and work on some things, but it won't be happening this week. With Radar and Roo pretty much ruled out already.

I'd like to see him return to the backlines, looked far more composed down there. Looks lost up forward. Not surprising considering when he was drafted he was classfied as a midfielder/small defender. Had a shocker against Sydney down there, but was very good against the Dockers and the Bullies.

Very good long term prospect. Oh.... and I should've known who'd be leading the Douglas bashing.

[Gets!]

Just get off his back, let him learn the game and the pace of AFL.

He has played 10 games Drummond.

Delete thread.

[Drummond]

Very good long term prospect. Oh.... and I should've known who'd be leading the Douglas bashing.
You need to realise the difference in bashing and simply making an observation. What I have said isn’t far off the mark, regardless of how biased you may be towards him.

[bus24]

You need to realise the difference in bashing and simply making an observation. What I have said isn’t far off the mark, regardless of how biased you may be towards him.

Considering most of your comments and 'observations' of him have been negative ones, it's sounding a lot more like a 'bashing' rather than simple observations.

Most, no all of us, have realised he has made mistakes and has much to improve on. However, you are the only one to continually harp on about it.

[afc9798]

You need to realise the difference in bashing and simply making an observation. What I have said isn’t far off the mark, regardless of how biased you may be towards him.

Very harsh and it's a pity that you don't apply the same standards to Norwood players, however, as everyone is, you are entitled to your opinion.

I think Douglas is being played out of position and he is suffering from having to fit in with a very tight backline group. he is still putting in the extras needed to hold his place, but agree that a stint with Glenelg may be in his best interests. Personally I think he is going to be a gem and is only down because of the adjustment to a role outside the midfield.

[fantastic_crows]

Drummond, the blokes played 10 games. He's extremely inexperienced, and to say you have been less than impressed with the bloke you must be expecting miracles from him.

He shouldnt even be in the team ATM, should be having a nice spell back in the SANFL but because of injuries he is in there and he is giving his all.

And it is bashing, you constantly badmouth him, and harp on about his mistakes. I dont see you harping on about anyone elses mistakes as much as you harp on about his.

[n4sir]

I dont see you harping on about anyone elses mistakes as much as you harp on about his.

Anybody who also has a Norwood jumper anyway...:p :rolleyes:

[Drummond]

Drummond, the blokes played 10 games. He's extremely inexperienced, and to say you have been less than impressed with the bloke you must be expecting miracles from him.

He shouldnt even be in the team ATM, should be having a nice spell back in the SANFL but because of injuries he is in there and he is giving his all.

And it is bashing, you constantly badmouth him, and harp on about his mistakes. I dont see you harping on about anyone elses mistakes as much as you harp on about his.
I do not expect miracles, far from it. I just expect him to be showing improvement in his game, and we haven’t really seen this IMO. He played 3 games last year, including the QF, so I would’ve thought we would see a step up in his performance this year. However to this point that hasn’t been the case.

[jmorg1]

As long as we are short on numbers he will be continue to be given opportunities to prove himself. Didn't have the best of nights against Brisbane. But luckily for him, there really isn't anyone else available to take his place so he will get another chance against Richmond.

[Crow Envy]

I do not expect miracles, far from it. I just expect him to be showing improvement in his game, and we haven’t really seen this IMO. He played 3 games last year, including the QF, so I would’ve thought we would see a step up in his performance this year. However to this point that hasn’t been the case.

You just answered your own question. Hes only played a handful of games and is on his 2nd yr on the list. Give him a chance. If we didnt have so many injuries he most probably wouldnt be getting a game, do in some respects his ahead of schedule.

[RoosterLad]

He will be a class act for us, he has had an up and down season so far but that's to be expected with a young, inexperienced bloke. I like the look of him though and I am a big fan.

If Pfeiffer or Campbell made a similar start I wonder if we would see the same response.

[brown30]

Poo thread by a poo person

[macca23]

Very harsh and it's a pity that you don't apply the same standards to Norwood players, however, as everyone is, you are entitled to your opinion.

I think Douglas is being played out of position and he is suffering from having to fit in with a very tight backline group. he is still putting in the extras needed to hold his place, but agree that a stint with Glenelg may be in his best interests. Personally I think he is going to be a gem and is only down because of the adjustment to a role outside the midfield.

He will be a class act for us, he has had an up and down season so far but that's to be expected with a young, inexperienced bloke. I like the look of how though and I am a big man.

If Pfeiffer or Campbell made a similar start I wonder if we would see the same response.

Nice to see some more intelligent comments re Douglas!! :thumbsu:

He's young, played bugger all games and is playing out of position. Says it all really.

On top of that he is tending to second guess himself a bit rather than back his natural instinct - rather like Hentschel and Knights did when they first started at this level.

Once he starts to trust himself a bit more we'll see just how good he will be - and that will be very very good.

He'll make Pfeiffer and Campbell look like old hacks. ;)

[Southerntakeover]

I think my problem with Douggie is the pre-season gave me a misleading impression to where hes at. After the trial game against West Coast i thought he was on the fast track to gun status. The reality is, hes a bit further back in the development track. Doesnt mean hes been bad this year, but ideally he probably wouldnt be playing every week if we werent so injury struck.

[RoosterLad]

Yeah but you said something about making Judd and Kerr think or work hard or something while they were having a casual stroll around the park while Dougie was fighting for a spot in the team.

[bus24]

I think my problem with Douggie is the pre-season gave me a misleading impression to where hes at. After the trial game against West Coast i thought he was on the fast track to gun status. The reality is, hes a bit further back in the development track. Doesnt mean hes been bad this year, but ideally he probably wouldnt be playing every week if we werent so injury struck.

Thing is, that game he spent the majority of the time on the ball.

Now he's been thrust everywhere. Defence is his best spot at this time, give the small forward option away. He's not a forward and never will be.

[RoosterLad]

I'm sure they were thinking. :) :thumbsu: :thumbsu: :D

Yeah about what they were going to eat after the game.

[bus24]

Yeah about what they were going to eat after the game.

Don't eat or do anything in Alice Springs. Its a shithole

[Drummond]

Thing is, that game he spent the majority of the time on the ball.

Now he's been thrust everywhere. Defence is his best spot at this time, give the small forward option away. He's not a forward and never will be.
Obviously the SANFL is a big step down from the level he's playing at this year, but he did boot 18.12 in only 12 games with Glenelg last year...

[bus24]

Obviously the SANFL is a big step down from the level he's playing at this year, but he did boot 18.12 in only 12 games with Glenelg last year...

From the midfield. IIRC the Bays were a very high scoring side last year. Got a fair few goals from the midfield.

[Drummond]

From the midfield.
Umm I think not, I saw him at least 3 times last year for the Bays and on every occasion he played across the HFF. Obviously he would have spent some time in the midfield but he spent a fair bit of time playing up forward too.

[Stiffy_18]

From the midfield. IIRC the Bays were a very high scoring side last year. Got a fair few goals from the midfield.
He has played a fair bit in the forward line last year for the Bays

[bus24]

Umm I think not, I saw him at least 3 times last year and on every occasion he played across the HFF.

HFF is pretty much an extended midfield these days anyway. A fair bit different to playing deep forward as he is currently.

For example Brent Reilly has spent a lot of time across the half forwad line this year and has been one of our best on ballers along with Thommo.

Does anyone seriously believe he's a long term crumbing option?

[Mad Dog]

Is probably at the same place Knights was after his first 10 games IMO.

Douggie has toiled manfully - but might need a trot back at Tiggerland with a list of things to work on.

Douggie is headed for gun status - but needs to rest, recuperate and re-evaluate is first cluster of games.

Has been asked to do a heap of work in varied roles - and has performed better than most would......so 2 thumbs up to the boy.....:thumbsu: :) :thumbsu: ......but when Reilly and Porps return - it might be a chance to send him back for a few games.

This sort of approach hasn't hurt Knights in the long term IMO

[Drummond]

Definitely time for a spell in the SANFL.

[crows4life]

Definitely time for a spell in the SANFL.ill be happy 4 that, maybe the bays will win a game with him in the team :)

[Gets!]

Kicked a nice goal!

[fantastic_crows]

Kicked a nice goal!

Great pick up and snap with his left.

[Drummond]

Bump.

To me he’s out of his depth at AFL level at this point in time. He’s still too thin and will need to add at least another 5kg. On the weekend he tried to apply a few tackles however they were often easily broken. With more work in the gym this shouldn’t be a problem, but as for now it’s an issue.

His skills are a mixed bag. Against the Saints his second quarter was excellent and his disposal by foot was the best I’ve seen. However he drifted out of the game and barely won a possession other than the second term. And against Fremantle I was a little disappointed. He can be somewhat forgiven for running straight into Headland because he had no options ahead of him, but it didn’t look flash. There was also a play where he was running down the wing, and he took a bounce but kicked it to a 2-on-1 in favour of the Dockers. And he’s also really struggling to find the ball.

I know he’s bulked up since being at the club, but he still looks so SLIGHT. He’s the same height as Edwards but gosh he looks so small running around out there. And is it just me or does he look rather sluggish? I keep hearing he’s quick, and his DC times might back that up, but when playing AFL he looks slow.

He’s in an interesting situation. He does well as SANFL level so is it worth persisting with him at the top level even though he’s quite clearly struggling?

[fantastic_crows]

He carves up for Glenelg, but he's bound to face more difficulty against the better players.

He's not really that small, could do with bulking up a bit more but its not like he's not putting the work in in the gym.

He chases hard and lays quite a few tackles, also does quite a few things that can easily go un-noticed.

[Capitalist]

Bump.

To me he’s out of his depth at AFL level at this point in time. He’s still too thin and will need to add at least another 5kg. On the weekend he tried to apply a few tackles however they were often easily broken. With more work in the gym this shouldn’t be a problem, but as for now it’s an issue.

His skills are a mixed bag. Against the Saints his second quarter was excellent and his disposal by foot was the best I’ve seen. However he drifted out of the game and barely won a possession other than the second term. And against Fremantle I was a little disappointed. He can be somewhat forgiven for running straight into Headland because he had no options ahead of him, but it didn’t look flash. There was also a play where he was running down the wing, and he took a bounce but kicked it to a 2-on-1 in favour of the Dockers. And he’s also really struggling to find the ball.

I know he’s bulked up since being at the club, but he still looks so SLIGHT. He’s the same height as Edwards but gosh he looks so small running around out there. And is it just me or does he look rather sluggish? I keep hearing he’s quick, and his DC times might back that up, but when playing AFL he looks slow.

He’s in an interesting situation. He does well as SANFL level so is it worth persisting with him at the top level even though he’s quite clearly struggling?



its this what people on this board wanted ? blooding of youngsters, he would be learning a lot more at AFL level having his tackles broken thank kicking 7 goals and dominating the SANFL ??

I thought thats what people want - give the guys a go so they can really develop ?

I think Bernie Vince is a prime example, never really dominated the at the eagles, got an extended time with the crows came back and dominated, thats what we want to see, chances are when Bernie comes back to AFL he will struggle a bit - but he will be improving, which is what we want to see

[Stiffy_18]

We've got to play him. I would like to see us give the kid more playing time across HB, taking Johncock's position. I would move Johncock to FP.

Douglas is at that transition stage where he is almost too good for SANFL but not quite there at AFL level. Knights went through that stage last year and is paying dividends in bucketloads this year. I think Douglas needs these AFL games (for the rest of the year) if we want him to step up and be a solid contributor for us next year.

People want us to play the kids and IMHO, Douglas should be the first cab off the rank in that scenario.

[Markthirtytwo]

We've got to play him. I would like to see us give the kid more playing time across HB, taking Johncock's position. I would move Johncock to FP.

Douglas is at that transition stage where he is almost too good for SANFL but not quite there at AFL level. Knights went through that stage last year and is paying dividends in bucketloads this year. I think Douglas needs these AFL games (for the rest of the year) if we want him to step up and be a solid contributor for us next year.

People want us to play the kids and IMHO, Douglas should be the first cab off the rank in that scenario.

I agree. He has to know that the club has respect for him and will play him now matter how he goes to give him confidence.

Like when NC first came on as coach he would not bench a player if he made a blue.
The players seemed to respect his respect of them and hence part of the culture of the club today.


By the way, this only refers to Douggie. ;)

[jenny61_99]

Good points boys. Give the lad some more time on the ground so he can further adjust to this level of playing. I just said in another thread, I don't think we can afford to have Douglas AND a couple of other debutants playing in the same week, as Craigy normally gives them minimal game time. But by all means, give Dougie a much larger role to play and see how he does.

[Campbell's Chunky]

Good points boys. Give the lad some more time on the ground so he can further adjust to this level of playing. I just said in another thread, I don't think we can afford to have Douglas AND a couple of other debutants playing in the same week, as Craigy normally gives them minimal game time. But by all means, give Dougie a much larger role to play and see how he does.
Yes we can.

Fact is, were sitting ninth and should be sitting in the 8.

Surely you wont accept mediocrity...and isolate the club from the performing SANFL players?

[bus24]

We've got to play him. I would like to see us give the kid more playing time across HB, taking Johncock's position. I would move Johncock to FP.

Douglas is at that transition stage where he is almost too good for SANFL but not quite there at AFL level. Knights went through that stage last year and is paying dividends in bucketloads this year. I think Douglas needs these AFL games (for the rest of the year) if we want him to step up and be a solid contributor for us next year.

People want us to play the kids and IMHO, Douglas should be the first cab off the rank in that scenario.

Good Post :thumbsu:

He'll learn far more in the big league, than cruising around carving up in the SANFL.

His main problem I thought was adjusting to the intensity, which he struggled with early in the year. Then he had a couple of games where he got far better at adjusting to the intensity, before having a hamstring injury. (When he probably wouldve made for the big name returns way anyway)

As for his tackles being broken, all of our players (bar a few) get their tackles broken far too easily.

Drum, you want Pfieffer in and Douglas out. Douglas is far more advanced at this stage. He'll be picked before Pfieffer and rightly so.

[Drummond]

Good Post :thumbsu:

He'll learn far more in the big league, than cruising around carving up in the SANFL.

His main problem I thought was adjusting to the intensity, which he struggled with early in the year. Then he had a couple of games where he got far better at adjusting to the intensity, before having a hamstring injury. (When he probably wouldve made for the big name returns way anyway)

As for his tackles being broken, all of our players (bar a few) get their tackles broken far too easily.

Drum, you want Pfieffer in and Douglas out. Douglas is far more advanced at this stage. He'll be picked before Pfieffer and rightly so.
You rate Richie and I rate Darren, but how exactly is Douglas "far more advanced"? If anything, Pfeiffer is the more ready made player and he's the one more advanced, especially in terms of their physical readiness for AFL football.

[crows98]

You rate Richie and I rate Darren, but how exactly is Douglas "far more advanced"? If anything, Pfeiffer is the more ready made player and he's the one more advanced, especially in terms of their physical readiness for AFL football.

What are you judging this on Drummond?

And don’t talk stats because we all know there are only 3 kinds of stats “lies, dammed lies and statistics”

[Drummond]

What are you judging this on Drummond?
Douglas: 74kg
Pfeiffer: 83kg

Huge difference. Douglas’ body is still too thin to regularly compete in the AFL and as I said he’s too easily pushed aside and his tackles don’t stick purely because he’s too thin. Look at the pic in yesterday’s paper, look how broad the shoulders are of those around him compared with Douglas. I’m not saying Pfeiffer’s ready to come in at the top level and dominate, all I’m saying is that he’s far more advanced physically and he wouldn’t be so easily pushed aside like Douglas is.

And before people take offence with the comparison, I’m not saying Douglas is a dud. Anyone who kicks 7 goals and has 30 possessions in the second best league as a 20 year-old has phenomenal talent. It’s just that IMO at this point in time he’s not ready to reach the standard I’m sure he would like to achieve.

[crows98]

Douglas: 74kg
Pfeiffer: 83kg

Huge difference. Douglas’ body is still too thin to regularly compete in the AFL and as I said he’s too easily pushed aside and his tackles don’t stick purely because he’s too thin. Look at the pic in yesterday’s paper, look how broad the shoulders are of those around him compared with Douglas. I’m not saying Pfeiffer’s ready to come in at the top level and dominate, all I’m saying is that he’s far more advanced physically and he wouldn’t be so easily pushed aside like Douglas is.

At before people take offence with the comparison, I’m not saying Douglas is a dud. Anyone who kicks 7 goals and has 30 possessions in the second best league as a 20 year-old has phenomenal talent. It’s just that IMO at this point in time he’s not ready to reach the standard I’m sure he would like to achieve.


Body weight is not a factor – Benny Hart in 1992 wouldn’t have weighed much more than 80kg and he won AA as a defender.

It’s football intelligence that will allow him to compete rather than being 10 kg heaver. Knowing what to do with and with out the ball is a much bigger factor than being able to stick a tackle.

If Richard Douglas was allowed to play as a back pocket or a half back flanker from day one IMO he would have found the transition from SANFL to AFL much easier. They way he has performed so far this season has been up and down because he hasn’t been allowed to settle in one position, he has spent time on the ball, defence and half forward flank. He has looked best in defence and growing more confidence as a midfield (in his limited time) but as a half forward he falls our of games quite easy and it is a greave yard some nights and makes some of the best player look ordinary.

Aaron Davies from Melbourne only weight 72kg now and he is phenomenal player, weight is not an issue with him because he know where to run and how to position himself to utilize all of his use his strengths rather than any perceived weaknesses.

[Drummond]

Aaron Davies from Melbourne only weight 72kg now and he is phenomenal player, weight is not an issue with him because he know where to run and how to position himself to utilize all of his use his strengths rather than any perceived weaknesses.
His name is Davey but how can you possibly hold a straight face while making this comparison? Davey is one of the quickest players in the competition and he uses his pace to break tackles and avoid getting hit. He can accelerate away from almost anyone, so making comparisons between him and Douglas just because he's slight is ridiculous.

It’s football intelligence that will allow him to compete rather than being 10 kg heaver. Knowing what to do with and with out the ball is a much bigger factor than being able to stick a tackle.
An example of someone legitimately using their football intelligence is the Power's Nathan Krakouer. He's as slight as they come but his ability to evade opponents, sidestep them and think through situations is what makes him able to handle it.

Prior to being drafted Douglas was known for his ball winning capabilities, his overhead marking and his ability to win contested possessions. He averaged the most contested possessions of any player in the TAC Cup. We haven’t seen much of this because he’s still too thin to regularly play in the midfield.

[fantastic_crows]

The weight argument seriously made me laugh.

It has nothing to do with it.

[Drummond]

The weight argument seriously made me laugh.

It has nothing to do with it.
:rolleyes:

You watch the game on the weekend.

Count the missed tackles. Tried to tackle, only to be shrugged aside. But no, that's not weight.

[crows98]

His name is Davey but how can you possibly hold a straight face while making this comparison? Davey is one of the quickest players in the competition and he uses his pace to break tackles and avoid getting hit. He can accelerate away from almost anyone, so making comparisons between him and Douglas just because he's slight is ridiculous.


An example of someone legitimately using their football intelligence is the Power's Nathan Krakouer. He's as slight as they come but his ability to evade opponents, sidestep them and think through situations is what makes him able to handle it.

Prior to being drafted Douglas was known for his ball winning capabilities, his overhead marking and his ability to win contested possessions. He averaged the most contested possessions of any player in the TAC Cup. We haven’t seen much of this because he’s still too thin to regularly play in the midfield.

It doesn’t really matter what anyone says because you will come back with some bullshit argument to suit yourself. You’re only looking for justification as to why Darren Pfeiffer is not currently in the side.

Body size is not an issue with any AFL player because if they are good enough they will be able to find a spot for them to play in. Example Andrejs Everett KPP at 78 kg but is allowed to play on a flank until his body mass has caught up. He is not a KPP defender yet but in 2 or 3 year and 15 kg timer he will be and would have played 50 odd games.

Richard Douglas has not been able to demonstrate his playing improvement because of system and structure Neil Craig plays, not because he is to light.

If he was played on the half back flank or back pocket for the next two year he could add 10 – 15 kg before moving into the midfield. This would allow his knowledge of the environment is tying to improve in increases at the same time his body mass does.

[CrowHop]

Top line talent. Most juniors with his limited experience would probably be in the same boat whilst they adjusted from SANFL to AFL.

[bus24]

:rolleyes:

You watch the game on the weekend.

Count the missed tackles. Tried to tackle, only to be shrugged aside. But no, that's not weight.

Count the missed tackles by every player, bar 2 or 3.

Obviously the lad needs to add size to his frame, but it's a gradual process and the AFC knew this would be the case when he was drafted.

[fantastic_crows]

:rolleyes:

You watch the game on the weekend.

Count the missed tackles. Tried to tackle, only to be shrugged aside. But no, that's not weight.

So you'd rather play a player that is bulkier, but doesn't necessarily have the same quality of skills, just because they weigh more?

[Drummond]

It doesn’t really matter what anyone says because you will come back with some bullshit argument to suit yourself. You’re only looking for justification as to why Darren Pfeiffer is not currently in the side.
:D Don't go flying off the handle now; you've been quite subdued to this point.

I'm not starting this tirade just to get Pfeiffer in the team, go back and review the last page, I think you’ll find I wasn’t even the one that brought up Pfeiffer. :thumbsu: I just disagreed with the comment that Douglas is “far more advanced” which is off the mark, you asked why, I gave you my reasons.

Richard Douglas has not been able to demonstrate his playing improvement because of system and structure Neil Craig plays, not because he is to light.
What so he can't find the ball because of the system and structure Neil Craig plays? On the weekend he spent some time in the midfield and he only had 8 possessions. So he can't stick tackles not because he's too light, but because of Neil Craig's system and structure?

[Drummond]

So you'd rather play a player that is bulkier, but doesn't necessarily have the same quality of skills, just because they weigh more?
I guess you’re alluding to Pfeiffer? I’m not saying we should drop Douglas and bring in Pfeiffer. As I said above, I didn’t even bring him up. I bumped the thread to talk about Douglas, not Pfeiffer.

In response to your question, it’s a shocker. I responded to the comment that Douglas was far more advanced than Pfeiffer. I said that there is a huge difference between their physical development and at this stage Pfeiffer’s body is more AFL ready. I’m really not sure how you can deny that. Besides, I’m not saying he should come in because he weighs more. Pfeiffer’s a ready made player and IMO his body wouldn't struggle with the physicality of the top level which Douglas' seems to have.

[jenny61_99]

Yes we can.

Fact is, were sitting ninth and should be sitting in the 8.

Surely you wont accept mediocrity...and isolate the club from the performing SANFL players?

And you can guarantee that we would be sitting higher with a bunch of kids in the team????? Get a grip. We are where we are because of extraordinary circumstances. We couldn't blood many of the new blokes because they too were injured or not up to speed (read: doing what was expected of them). And now we MUST make the finals and the best team available will be picked. Only Craig and his team know who that is, not some couch coach!

[Southerntakeover]

You rate Richie and I rate Darren, but how exactly is Douglas "far more advanced"? If anything, Pfeiffer is the more ready made player and he's the one more advanced, especially in terms of their physical readiness for AFL football.

Douglas is so far ahead of Pfeiffer its not even close.

How many games has Pfeiff played for the Crows?

[Campbell's Chunky]

And you can guarantee that we ould be sitting higher with a bunch of kids in the team????? Get a grip. We are where we are because of extraordinary circumstances. We couldn't blood many of the new blokes because they too were injured or not up to speed (read: doing what was expected of them). And now we MUST make the finals and the best team available will be picked. Only Craig and his team know who that is, not some couch coach!
So far you've put our season down to 'bad luck'.

Not worrying about making the players accountable?

4 crows performed exceptionally well in the SANFL on the weekend (read: doing what was expected of them) so to bringing in 1 or 0 would just be stupid...considering how we are travelling.

Gold passes anyone?

[ICanDressMyself]

Douglas is so far ahead of Pfeiffer its not even close.

How many games has Pfeiff played for the Crows?

*raises hand* I know!!!!

[Southerntakeover]

So far you've put our season down to 'bad luck'.

Not worrying about making the players accountable?

4 crows performed exceptionally well in the SANFL on the weekend (read: doing what was expected of them) so to bringing in 1 or 0 would just be stupid...considering how we are travelling.

Gold passes anyone?

Two weeks ago the player with exceptional SANFL form was Douglas, he absolutely dominated there.

[RoosterLad]

His SANFL form was better than Pfeiffer's, this is just another pointless argument.

[Southerntakeover]

His SANFL form was better than Pfeiffer's, this is just another pointless argument.

Has Pfeiffer ever dominated an SANFL game? I know hes been good in some, but has he ever really absolutely dominated a game to the level that some of the other youngsters on our list such as Vince, Knights and Dougie have?

[Stiffy_18]

:rolleyes:

You watch the game on the weekend.

Count the missed tackles. Tried to tackle, only to be shrugged aside. But no, that's not weight.
I will but I suggest you also take a look at other players in our team and not just Douglas. I think you will find our tackling overall is pretty poor and even the best of tacklers in our side get their tackles broken on a regular basis this year.

[Kickin_Goals]

13 games total,
hardly can call him a second year player, 3 matches last season where he'd of seen no field time.
I would like to see his field time played stats but they would cost me 45 bucks to get at it seems.
Forward pocket is not a position you rack up any kind of stats especially in a team performing poorly.
perhaps you could rate him on how well he tackles and whether his decisions are improving, they would have to be fairly damn good skills to give our witches hat forwards a chance so he's got a battle there.
Anyone paid pro-stats subscription about to get some decent stats?

[Drummond]

And you can guarantee that we would be sitting higher with a bunch of kids in the team????? Get a grip. We are where we are because of extraordinary circumstances. We couldn't blood many of the new blokes because they too were injured or not up to speed (read: doing what was expected of them). And now we MUST make the finals and the best team available will be picked. Only Craig and his team know who that is, not some couch coach!
What, other than a 'nice warm fuzzy feeling', would we get out of scraping into the finals only to be knocked out straight away?

So in your opinion guys like Perrie, Shirley, Doughty ect are all in your best team available? And you wonder why we’re 9th. Bit more than extraordinary circumstances I would think...

[jenny61_99]

So far you've put our season down to 'bad luck'.

Not worrying about making the players accountable?

4 crows performed exceptionally well in the SANFL on the weekend (read: doing what was expected of them) so to bringing in 1 or 0 would just be stupid...considering how we are travelling.

Gold passes anyone?

If you had read everything I have written on this subject you will know that I believe the injuries that we have sustained this year are the reason we are where we are - both to our A-grade players and the SANFL players yet to debut for us. Where normally players who were out of form would be dropped, they couldn't because the cupboard was essentially bare. Where players would not be brought back quickly from injury, they are. Where players had niggles they would be dropped and given time to heal. They are not. It is only in recent weeks that the new blokes have been showing good form and that is a great sign. But I still believe we cannot drop 4 players this week and replace them with 4 debutants when we are still in the hunt for the finals. No such thing as a gold ticket (ridiculous phrase it is), rather circumstances that have made things out of the ordinary for the selection panel. I'd hate to be them!~

[Southerntakeover]

What, other than a 'nice warm fuzzy feeling', would we get out of scraping into the finals only to be knocked out straight away?

So in your opinion guys like Perrie, Shirley, Doughty ect are all in your best team available? And you wonder why we’re 9th. Bit more than extraordinary circumstances I would think...

So, your philosophy is if you cant win the premiership, tank?

[jenny61_99]

What, other than a 'nice warm fuzzy feeling', would we get out of scraping into the finals only to be knocked out straight away?

So in your opinion guys like Perrie, Shirley, Doughty ect are all in your best team available? And you wonder why we’re 9th. Bit more than extraordinary circumstances I would think...

Perrie and Doughty - ABSOLUTELY. Shirley Ive never had big wraps for, but Neil Craig certainly does. What makes you think you know better than the Coach???

A warm fuzzy feeling or not, we must make the finals. Once in the finals, anything is possible. I'd rather go down fighting than without a whimper.

[Campbell's Chunky]

If you had read everything I have written on this subject you will know that I believe the injuries that we have sustained this year are the reason we are where we are - both to our A-grade players and the SANFL players yet to debut for us. Where normally players who were out of form would be dropped, they couldn't because the cupboard was essentially bare. Where players would not be brought back quickly from injury, they are. Where players had niggles they would be dropped and given time to heal. They are not. It is only in recent weeks that the new blokes have been showing good form and that is a great sign. But I still believe we cannot drop 4 players this week and replace them with 4 debutants when we are still in the hunt for the finals. No such thing as a gold ticket (ridiculous phrase it is), rather circumstances that have made things out of the ordinary for the selection panel. I'd hate to be them!~
I agree with you that earlier in the season we needed to drop people because of injury/form but couldn't (ie Brett Burton when he had the knee problem).

But that is not the case anymore, so why would you even think about continuing without dropping underperforming players?

And IMO the ideal amount of changes this week is 2...3 max, not 4, but certainly not 0 or 1.

[Campbell's Chunky]

Two weeks ago the player with exceptional SANFL form was Douglas, he absolutely dominated there.
Yeh...and?

[jenny61_99]

I agree with you that earlier in the season we needed to drop people because of injury/form but couldn't (ie Brett Burton when he had the knee problem).

But that is not the case anymore, so why would you even think about continuing without dropping underperforming players?

And IMO the ideal amount of changes this week is 2...3 max, not 4, but certainly not 0 or 1.

Because unlike you and Drummond, I want the team to make the finals. 3 debutants would be nothing short of suicidal IMO.

[Drummond]

So, your philosophy is if you cant win the premiership, tank?
Who said anything about tanking?

Tanking is bringing in untried or youngsters who aren't ready and having no desire to win games of football. By bringing in these guys we are replacing the underperforming, mediocre guys who are receiving gold passes each week.

Gill is 24, has been playing well for North, and needs a shot. Campbell is 22, has been playing very well for Norwood, and needs a shot. Meesen has kicked 6 goals in 2 weeks as well as racking up 33 possessions, 16 marks and 29 hit-outs. Pfeiffer has been best and 2nd best in the past two weeks.

If bringing in these players is tanking, then I’m all for “tanking”.

[Kickin_Goals]

Shirley Perrie and Doughty are never going to carry this team, it's clearly not what they are there for.
Atm they have been playing unsuitable roles and should be tagging we don't need them winning the ball to hand pass back and forwards to each other as they have no pace or aren't in the habit of taking off with pace and Perrie keeps getting a game for conservative reasons, he's in poor shape out there shouldn't be in an AFL side in that form he isn't some champ that can play through things nor are the other lads out there running about with questions over them Perrie is often a liability at the best of times let alone returning from an injury that will have his overhead ability troubled.

[Southerntakeover]

Who said anything about tanking?

Tanking is bringing in untried or youngsters who aren't ready and having no desire to win games of football. By bringing in these guys we are replacing the underperforming, mediocre guys who are receiving gold passes each week.

Gill is 24, has been playing well for North, and needs a shot. Campbell is 22, has been playing very well for Norwood, and needs a shot. Meesen has kicked 6 goals in 2 weeks as well as racking up 33 possessions, 16 marks and 29 hit-outs. Pfeiffer has been best and 2nd best in the past two weeks.

If bringing in these players is tanking, then I’m all for “tanking”.

You questioned the point of making the finals, that implies you think it would be a bad idea that should be avoided.

Playing any of those players individually wouldnt have a huge affect on our team, but trying to suggest we should debut them all at the same time, at the expense of important, experienced players is lunacy, and i would suggest is likely to cost us matches.

[RoosterLad]

Has Pfeiffer ever dominated an SANFL game? I know hes been good in some, but has he ever really absolutely dominated a game to the level that some of the other youngsters on our list such as Vince, Knights and Dougie have?

No not really although I'm sure Drummy will tell you otherwise. He has had some good games but Vince, Knights and Dougie sure have.. heck even the Great Man Nick Gill has carved in probably more games than those young lads combined!

[Southerntakeover]

No not really although I'm sure Drummy will tell you otherwise. He has had some good games but Vince, Knights and Dougie sure have.. heck even the Great Man Nick Gill has carved in probably more games than those young lads combined!

Which is my issue with Pfeiffer. Hes shown he can be a good SANFL player, but hes yet to really show hes a step above SANFL.

[Campbell's Chunky]

Because unlike you and Drummond, I want the team to make the finals. 3 debutants would be nothing short of suicidal IMO.
Our current team of non performers has us well on the way...

Surely your not so nebulous to see that changes need to be made???

I mean, who are you going to play on Lucas & Lloyd, and subsequently, what will your forward line look like???

[Southerntakeover]

Our current team of non performers has us well on the way...

Surely your not so nebulous to see that changes need to be made???

I mean, who are you going to play on Lucas & Lloyd, and subsequently, what will your forward line look like???

Who exactly thats not in our team at the moment do we have capable of stopping Lucas and Lloyd? Im not seeing these great key defenders who have been held back by Craig?

[Drummond]

Perrie and Doughty - ABSOLUTELY. Shirley Ive never had big wraps for, but Neil Craig certainly does. What makes you think you know better than the Coach???

A warm fuzzy feeling or not, we must make the finals. Once in the finals, anything is possible. I'd rather go down fighting than without a whimper.
So jenny, what exactly does Doughty bring to the table? :) I'd really like to know what he offers that others couldn't.

Because unlike you and Drummond, I want the team to make the finals. 3 debutants would be nothing short of suicidal IMO.
Tell us what is wrong with the names that have been thrown around. I want reasons as to why they wouldn't offer this team something. Shirley's 7 possessions, Doughty's 15, Perrie's 1 goal, all could be covered if you asked me. :thumbsu:

You questioned the point of making the finals, that implies you think it would be a bad idea that should be avoided.

Playing any of those players individually wouldnt have a huge affect on our team, but trying to suggest we should debut them all at the same time, at the expense of important, experienced players is lunacy, and i would suggest is likely to cost us matches.
Of course making the finals isn’t a bad thing. All I’m saying is that our chances of winning the flag are non existent. We’re 11-13 in our past 24 matches, and we’re one of the most inconsistent sides in the league.

I’m not saying we should bring them all in at once. I would bring in Meesen and Campbell this week, Gill and Pfeiffer the next, or something along those lines. If we continue to wait these guys might lose from, we’ll put off their debuts, and by the time we blink the season will be done and we’ve missed the chance. All 4 are playing well, and we should get them into the team ASAP.

[Campbell's Chunky]

Who exactly thats not in our team at the moment do we have capable of stopping Lucas and Lloyd? Im not seeing these great key defenders who have been held back by Craig?
No, none of the players I suggest come in will play a key defensive position, but you will have to play a Nathan Bock, or a Ken McGregor on one...if not both of them, with Stevens playing 3rd defender.

What sort of forward line are we left with there? A half fit Ian Perrie?

[jenny61_99]

Our current team of non performers has us well on the way...

Surely your not so nebulous to see that changes need to be made???

I mean, who are you going to play on Lucas & Lloyd, and subsequently, what will your forward line look like???

Three weeks ago, these non performers thrashed Hawthorn! ;) There will be changes made for sure, but I need to know who is available before I tell you my line-up. No point in speculating Roo or Rutten might be back because they may not be. Any changes I would make would see experienced players receive priority over the younger boys at the moment because this is an important game for us. If I were to bring in one of the new lads, it would probably be at the expense of Douglas and I am not sure that is fair on him given that he certainly has done what was expected of him before being rewarded with a call-up.

[Drummond]

Which is my issue with Pfeiffer. Hes shown he can be a good SANFL player, but hes yet to really show hes a step above SANFL.
Fair point, but what about VB? In 2005 for South Adelaide he averaged 17 possessions and 2 tackles per game. Now if you ask me that's not really showing he's a step above SANFL. Sure VB’s game isn’t accurately measured by numbers, but still, far from dominant.

Sometimes you have to take the punt with the hope they’ll develop into fine AFL players, just need to be given the chance.

[Campbell's Chunky]

Three weeks ago, these non performers thrashed Hawthorn! ;) There will be changes made for sure, but I need to know who is available before I tell you my line-up. No point in speculating Roo or Rutten might be back because they may not be. Any changes I would make would see experienced players receive priority over the younger boys at the moment because this is an important game for us. If I were to bring in one of the new lads, it would probably be at the expense of Douglas and I am not sure that is fair on him given that he certainly has done what was expected of him before being rewarded with a call-up.
I'm assuming neither Rutten nor Roo are coming up. If they do, that's obviously a huge bonus.

[Campbell's Chunky]

Fair point, but what about VB? In 2005 for South Adelaide he averaged 17 possessions and 2 tackles per game. Now if you ask me that's not really showing he's a step above SANFL. Sure VB’s game isn’t accurately measured by numbers, but still, far from dominant.

Sometimes you have to take the punt with the hope they’ll develop into fine AFL players, just need to be given the chance.
Westhoff wasn't really dominating SANFL. He was good, but not a cut above.

Sometimes you just get pleasant surprises.

[Kickin_Goals]

So the idea is to extend the mid-field rotation further to players going out of the team entirely, the rotations aren't working as it is...

[Southerntakeover]

Fair point, but what about VB? In 2005 for South Adelaide he averaged 17 possessions and 2 tackles per game. Now if you ask me that's not really showing he's a step above SANFL. Sure VB’s game isn’t accurately measured by numbers, but still, far from dominant.

Sometimes you have to take the punt with the hope they’ll develop into fine AFL players if given the chance.

van Berlo trained his ass off in the preseason and was in the AFL team before the first quarter of his first season was over. He wasnt there long enough to dominate. Thats because he is one of the elite trainers at the club. Pfeiffer doesnt have the same brilliant fitness base vB had, which forced his way into the team.

Pfeiff hasnt played AFL nearing the end of his second season. Not even close to being comparable. He needs to be dominating the SANFL at this stage of his career to be comparable to the other players on our list who are, yet hes not.

[Southerntakeover]

No, none of the players I suggest come in will play a key defensive position, but you will have to play a Nathan Bock, or a Ken McGregor on one...if not both of them, with Stevens playing 3rd defender.

What sort of forward line are we left with there? A half fit Ian Perrie?

Perrie, Welsh and Burton will have to carry alot of the goal scoring load.

Which of the potential debuts could improve our forward line though?

Perhaps gill?

[jenny61_99]

So jenny, what exactly does Doughty bring to the table? :) I'd really like to know what he offers that others couldn't.

Do any of these boys offer the hardness at the ball that Doughty does? I honestly don't know as I haven't seen any of them play... but I know that Doughty can and does play well under pressure. Not sure a new bloke would.


Tell us what is wrong with the names that have been thrown around. I want reasons as to why they wouldn't offer this team something. Shirley's 7 possessions, Doughty's 15, Perrie's 1 goal, all could be covered if you asked me. :thumbsu:


Nothing is wrong with the names being thrown around. In time they will offer the team something. You don't listen... I am all for them getting a game, just a) not at the same time and b) definitely not at the same time when we are still trying to make the finals.

Of course making the finals isn’t a bad thing. All I’m saying is that our chances of winning the flag are non existent. We’re 11-13 in our past 24 matches, and we’re one of the most inconsistent sides in the league.

I don't care if our chances of winning the flag are non-existant. I still want to at least try to bloody get there instead of give up without a fight.

I’m not saying we should bring them all in at once. I would bring in Meesen and Campbell this week, Gill and Pfeiffer the next, or something along those lines. If we continue to wait these guys might lose from, we’ll put off their debuts, and by the time we blink the season will be done and we’ve missed the chance. All 4 are playing well, and we should get them into the team ASAP.

And who would you drop, and where would you play them, and how much game time do you expect they would have?

[- PC -]

Just get off his back, let him learn the game and the pace of AFL.


Spot on...he was told to go back to the SANFL and work on his game, he did that and he has had a few games and all of a sudden he is struggling...well derrr ... give him the rest of the year...for someone who continually calls for youth in our side this call reeks of red and blue bias

[Southerntakeover]

I’m not saying we should bring them all in at once. I would bring in Meesen and Campbell this week, Gill and Pfeiffer the next, or something along those lines. If we continue to wait these guys might lose from, we’ll put off their debuts, and by the time we blink the season will be done and we’ve missed the chance. All 4 are playing well, and we should get them into the team ASAP.

I dont like the attitude that making the finals isnt important. It is.

I also dont see how panicking and suddenly having four players playing their first, or second games is going to improve the team, we cant carry them all at the moment. Our club tends to take a balanced approach to blooding rookies, not the throw them in the deep end approach.

[Drummond]

van Berlo trained his ass off in the preseason and was in the AFL team before the first quarter of his first season was over. He wasnt there long enough to dominate. Thats because he is one of the elite trainers at the club. Pfeiffer doesnt have the same brilliant fitness base vB had, which forced his way into the team.

Pfeiff hasnt played AFL nearing the end of his second season. Not even close to being comparable. He needs to be dominating the SANFL at this stage of his career to be comparable to the other players on our list who are, yet hes not.
VB played 10 games with South Adelaide in 2005 which is long enough to have a game or two to display that you're a step above SANFL. We know he's a great athlete with outstanding endurance and enthusiasm, but that’s not the point, he didn't dominate the local league in his first season. He averaged 6.6 possessions per game with the Crows, and 17 with South, hardly dominant at any level.

[crows98]

Which is my issue with Pfeiffer. Hes shown he can be a good SANFL player, but hes yet to really show hes a step above SANFL.

But Ben hart or Mark Ricciuto never dominated any SANFL game either, I don’t believe Tyson Edwards or Simon Goodwin ripped the SANFL up either before getting a senior AFL game but it was obvious to the powers that be that they were going to be very good players.

IIRC Peter Vardy never showed any brilliant form before debuting for the Crows at Centrals but came into the side and offered plenty.

1996 Kane Johnson was struggling in the Glenelg seconds until Blight made him pull his finger out at the begging of 1997 and never looked back.

Darren Pfeiffer has all the necessary attributes to be a very good AFL player not dominating a SANFL isn’t a big concern. To me anyway.

[Southerntakeover]

VB played 10 games with South Adelaide in 2005 which is long enough to have a game or two to display that you're a step above SANFL. We know he's a great athlete with outstanding endurance and enthusiasm, but that’s not the point, he didn't dominate the local league in his first season. He averaged 6.6 possessions per game with the Crows, and 17 with South, hardly dominant at any level.

In his first season. Pfieffer is now at the end of his second. That is the point, van Berlo's training forced his way into the team. Pfeiffers hasnt, so he has to force his way in another way.

[- PC -]

He needs to be dominating the SANFL at this stage of his career to be comparable to the other players on our list who are, yet hes not.

Have to agree with the others...not sure a dominant performance is what the AFC are after. Yes, it may be one facet of selection but not the totality. But yes your point is well made as well that if he is good enough he should be dominating.

[jenny61_99]

Darren Pfeiffer has all the necessary attributes to be a very good AFL player not dominating a SANFL isn’t a big concern. To me anyway.

And really when it comes down to it, those that see these players every day - training, preparing etc etc, are the ones that know if these young blokes are meeting expectations and are ready or not to take that next step.

[Southerntakeover]

But Ben hart or Mark Ricciuto never dominated any SANFL game either, I don’t believe Tyson Edwards or Simon Goodwin ripped the SANFL up either before getting a senior AFL game but it was obvious to the powers that be that they were going to be very good players.

IIRC Peter Vardy never showed any brilliant form before debuting for the Crows at Centrals but came into the side and offered plenty.

1996 Kane Johnson was struggling in the Glenelg seconds until Blight made him pull his finger out at the begging of 1997 and never looked back.

Darren Pfeiffer has all the necessary attributes to be a very good AFL player not dominating a SANFL isn’t a big concern. To me anyway.

Probably fair examples, and i dont feel that every junior has to be dominating SANFL to get a gig in the crows team.

However, when there are other players who are directly competing for the same position, on the same list, dominating SANFL at the same time, it sets you back in the pack. Pfeiffer not dominating is highlighted by the SANFL dominations of Douglas, vince and Knights.

[Drummond]

Do any of these boys offer the hardness at the ball that Doughty does? I honestly don't know as I haven't seen any of them play... but I know that Doughty can and does play well under pressure. Not sure a new bloke would.
Thankfully you added "I haven't seen any of them play" because if you've seen Campbell play you wouldn't be questioning his hardness. He makes most look like Jericho. Averaged 4 tackles per game in 2006, and in his first game back this season he had 7 tackles. Fierce competitor who excels at the 1%’s and loves the physical aspect of the game. You would be losing nothing, only gaining more skill and more hardness.

Nothing is wrong with the names being thrown around. In time they will offer the team something. You don't listen... I am all for them getting a game, just a) not at the same time and b) definitely not at the same time when we are still trying to make the finals.
a) Have them debut over two weeks then b) So because we’re still in the hunt we should carry those who are underperforming? Can’t you see this is precisely the problem? Players know they won’t be dropped because we’re still in with a shot. Accepting mediocrity.

I don't care if our chances of winning the flag are non-existant. I still want to at least try to bloody get there instead of give up without a fight.
Here we go again. Blooding these guys is NOT giving up. But for those you haven’t seen any of them, such as yourself, then you are obviously fearing the unknown.

And who would you drop, and where would you play them, and how much game time do you expect they would have?
Gill-Perrie.
Pfeiffer-Doughty.
Campbell-Shirley.
Meesen-Welsh/McGregor/Bock (whoever doesn’t come up from injury this week). They simply take the positions of those they are replacing.

[Southerntakeover]

Have to agree with the others...not sure a dominant performance is what the AFC are after. Yes, it may be one facet of selection but not the totality. But yes your point is well made as well that if he is good enough he should be dominating.

Of course its not the totality, im definetely not arguing that. Ive been a strong advocate for training being a factor in the recent arguements. This is just another aspect of the equation that Pfeiffer doesnt particularly stand out in. He's not an elite trainer like van Berlo, and he's not ripping up the SANFL like say Douglas. Theres just very little atm that makes him stand out.

[Drummond]

In his first season. Pfieffer is now at the end of his second. That is the point, van Berlo's training forced his way into the team. Pfeiffers hasnt, so he has to force his way in another way.

Have to agree with the others...not sure a dominant performance is what the AFC are after. Yes, it may be one facet of selection but not the totality. But yes your point is well made as well that if he is good enough he should be dominating.
Care of the Norwood Football Club:

Darren Pfeiffer played his most effective game for the year, strong and rebounding from half-back.
Was named BOG.

Darren Pfeiffer played arguably his best game for the year, rebounding from defence, his courageous over-head marking a feature.
Was named 3rd best.

So given that his training form won't get him a shot, are you saying his SANFL form won't either? What's left?

[Kickin_Goals]

Well if these guys want in the side I would think stamina aggression and mind set would come into it more then dominance, as if players dominate the SANFL but at training are struggling and don't have the tank they wouldn't really be looked at which is probably the case with some of these de-lists the Crows have had that have done very well in the SANFL.
If these guys were absolutely demanding a spot being on a colossal training regime to be in menacing shape like the powers that be saw in certain players they would be getting in the side with the injuries around.

[Southerntakeover]

Care of the Norwood Football Club:


Was named BOG.


Was named 3rd best.

So given that his training form won't get him a shot, are you saying his SANFL form won't either? What's left?

Ok, you obviously dont understand what i mean by dominating. Best on ground is good, but has he had the break out performance that sets him as clearly a standard above? I pose it as a question, because im interested in whether or not you really think he has.

Your last question is partially the point im making. Im struggling to see why he deserves a spot in the team over other players on our list.

[jenny61_99]

Thankfully you added "I haven't seen any of them play" because if you've seen Campbell play you wouldn't be questioning his hardness. He makes most look like Jericho. Averaged 4 tackles per game in 2006, and in his first game back this season he had 7 tackles. Fierce competitor who excels at the 1%’s and loves the physical aspect of the game. You would be losing nothing, only gaining more skill and more hardness.


a) Have them debut over two weeks then b) So because we’re still in the hunt we should carry those who are underperforming? Can’t you see this is precisely the problem? Players know they won’t be dropped because we’re still in with a shot. Accepting mediocrity.


Here we go again. Blooding these guys is NOT giving up. But for those you haven’t seen any of them, such as yourself, then you are obviously fearing the unknown.


Gill-Perrie.
Pfeiffer-Doughty.
Campbell-Shirley.
Meesen-Welsh/McGregor/Bock (whoever doesn’t come up from injury this week). They simply take the positions of those they are replacing.

So you think they will play the same amount of game time the other more experienced players would play? :rolleyes: Seriously Drummond, it's not swapping same for same... it's swapping the absolute unknown and untried for the known and experienced. You can't possibly think they would a) play out an entire game and b) be able to pick up AT AFL level straight away. THAT is why they cannot win games for us YET. This is too important to lose, not worth taking the risk IMO.

[NikkiNoo]

Thankfully you added "I haven't seen any of them play" because if you've seen Campbell play you wouldn't be questioning his hardness. He makes most look like Jericho. Averaged 4 tackles per game in 2006, and in his first game back this season he had 7 tackles. Fierce competitor who excels at the 1%’s and loves the physical aspect of the game. You would be losing nothing, only gaining more skill and more hardness.

Had a chat with a Norwood supporting workmate that attends all the norwood games and gave a huge wrap for Campbell. But he did stress that what he noticed about Bryce was that his lower half i.e. legs are not as well developed as many other afl listed players. He thinks that at afl level this may impact on his ability to make the tackles stick.

He really would love to see Campbell get the opportunity in the AFL this week.

Didn't mention Pfeiffer and was disappointed in Meesen's effort on the weekend where he was more interested in starting a fight than running hard into the backlines to contest a throw in/ ball up.

[- PC -]

Care of the Norwood Football Club:


Was named BOG.


Was named 3rd best.

So given that his training form won't get him a shot, are you saying his SANFL form won't either? What's left?

Thanks...so that was from the last 2 weeks?