For anyone who loves stats.. Knights V Salopek

[SA_Stazza]

Just thought these averages might interest a few of you :)


Knights
H: 185
W: 84
'04 Pick 56
Games Played: 19

Salopek
H: 184
W: 84
'02 Pick 6
Games Played: 52

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=2&pid1=1536&tid2=14&pid2=428

Both play exactly the same role as medium-sized outside midfielders, Knights having played less than half the number of games as Salopek and over a year younger.

For those Port fans that might try to argue it is unfair to compare this year and perhaps attempt to offer Salopek's '06 stats well let me save you the trouble:

Salopek '06 Avg. p/game: (and how this yr compares to last)

In 87 minutes

K: 12.3 (0.7 more -13.0)
H: 8.1 (0.3 more - 8.4)
D: 20.4 (Only averaging 1.0 more this year - 21.4)
M: 5.7 (1.1 more p/game this year - 6.8)
G: 0.6 (0.2 less - 0.4)
T: 1.8 (0.4 more - 2.2)

Whereas Knights last year: (and now)

In 51 minutes

K: 6.7 (7.0 more this year - 13.7)
H: 6.5 (3.4 more this year - 9.9)
D: 13.2 (Averaging 10.4 more this year - 23.6)
M: 3.1 (4.0 more p/game this year - 7.1)
G: 0.1 (0.2 more - 0.3)
T: 2.0 (0.6 more - 2.6)

Remarkable, considering Knights still only spends on average between 70-80% of the time on ground.

Definitely a great pick at 56, we all know Salopek has great ball-getting abilites (and so he should having been selected at Pick 6) but it is scary to think what Knights will be doing when he is playing 90-100% game time and has as many games under his belt as Sala now does :eek:

And if anyone dares to mention the questionability of Knight's disposals, he is averaging somewhere between 80-90% disposal effeciency already this year - this week just gone he was ranked equal 3rd on the ground for efficiency with 12 of his 13 kicks effective (and an overall disp. efficiency of 91% for the match) and was ranked 2nd overall of all brisbane/adelaide players in champion data ranking points.

Just food for thought, let me know what you all think ;)

[Macca19]

Since when was Salopek pick 2?

[SA_Stazza]

Since when was Salopek pick 2?

Oops... Pick 6... my bad :( :( :(

Forgive me!!! :o

[SA_Stazza]

Since when was Salopek pick 2?

It doesn't change what I was eluding to - and in any case, 3 of the players selected ahead of him weren't anything special and still aren't!

[Macca19]

From what I remember when Knights was drafted, his ball magnetism has never been put under question. He averaged huge amounts in the TAC Cup as well. Its always been his disposal and his kicking action which put him down the list.

[SA_Stazza]

From what I remember when Knights was drafted, his ball magnetism has never been put under question. He averaged huge amounts in the TAC Cup as well. Its always been his disposal and his kicking action which put him down the list.

And look how quickly he has turned that negative into a positive.. I've highlighted the fact of how quickly he has improved his disposals - I just think it's interesting that as you say, so many chose to overlook a player with such great ball-winning capabilities merely for something that has so rapidly become an asset to his game :rolleyes:

[kimirocks]

He has been questioned previously, and justifiably. This year he has taken a massive step up and thank god, he is a gun. All these ****ing Victorian numptys point the finger and ask what we'll have when Goody and Phoon are gone. Well, we have some sure class left over with Knighta, Dougie, Thommo, Reilly, Sir Van Berlo, all young and all great. Much to be excited, Adelaide > Richmond

[Malibu#27]

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to show in this thread that we didn't already know.

Knights is well known as a ball magnet, and has been on the radar for a couple years ...

I haven't watched much of him this year, so don't know how his disposal has improved or how much of his disposal is pressured.

I think we are also well awar that pure possession numbers are no longer as relevant as they used to be.


So any idea what sort of player he will develop into ... my early thoughts were a Matt Connell type - but don't know if this may have changed over the past 18 months.

[jmorg1]

Those people still criticising Knights' disposals are just basing their judgement on CK's reputation without actually having watched him play. Case in point:

I haven't watched much of him this year, so don't know how his disposal has improved or how much of his disposal is pressured.

Crows supporters who have actually watched him play regularly this season would know that his disposals have improved significantly and while it's not in the class of McLeod yet, it's definitely well above Connell/Tregenza level. I'd say it's probably even better than Thompson's or Burton's.

[Malibu#27]

Those people still criticising Knights' disposals are just basing their judgement on CK's reputation without actually having watched him play. Case in point:

Crows supporters who have actually watched him play regularly this season would know that his disposals have improved significantly and while it's not in the class of McLeod yet, it's definitely well above Connell/Tregenza level. I'd say it's probably even better than Thompson's or Burton's.

So I assume you missed the point were I asked how his disposal had improved - I wasn't passing judgement.

[macca23]

So I assume you missed the point were I asked how his disposal had improved - I wasn't passing judgement.

Just accept it mate - it has improved dramatically and the efficiency measures support that. :)

Knights craps all over Salopek as a player. Salopek will be a good footballer over the years - Knights will be at a level above that.

As for Macca 19's comments re that it was his disposal that saw him taken so low down the list - not true.

As an underage player, Knights was being touted as a top ten pick in his 2nd year in the U'18's.

However, due to a growth spurt, he suffered badly from tendonitis in both knees which affected his form in his 2nd year. For this reason all the clibs bar Adelaide decided to give Knights a miss.

Adelaide felt that they could manage Knights through the tendonitis - and so it has proved.

Result - Adelaide has gained an elite mid-fielder in the making at pick 56. :thumbsu:

[Macca19]

Knights craps all over Salopek as a player.


Strongly strongly disagree with that.

[Vic Crow]

He has been questioned previously, and justifiably. This year he has taken a massive step up and thank god, he is a gun. All these ****ing Victorian numptys point the finger and ask what we'll have when Goody and Phoon are gone. Well, we have some sure class left over with Knighta, Dougie, Thommo, Reilly, Sir Van Berlo, all young and all great. Much to be excited, Adelaide > Richmond
You'd think most Victorian's would recognise the talent of their own. :p

[Capitalist]

Strongly strongly disagree with that.

of course you do, i don't expect any stats will ever change your mind;)

as for Knights, it was pretty obvious early on that he was a going to be a very good player, makes you wonder how much players gain from going into a sucessful SANFL side and making there mark rather than a crappy one

[NikkiNoo]

Macca 19 I suggest you watch a couple of games if possible - especially the recent one against Brisbane.

Knights has impressed us all with his dramatic improvement in kicking and handball efficiency, his ball magnet ability we already knew he had but now he takes the ball at pace and puts on a little burst of speed to evade the opposition and in many cases run away. He is being played in the guts more than Goodwin and Edwards these days and is giving us hope for the future.

[Mong]

As for Macca 19's comments re that it was his disposal that saw him taken so low down the list - not true.

As an underage player, Knights was being touted as a top ten pick in his 2nd year in the U'18's.

However, due to a growth spurt, he suffered badly from tendonitis in both knees which affected his form in his 2nd year. For this reason all the clibs bar Adelaide decided to give Knights a miss.


Was just about to say this. I guess you can never be sure why clubs pass on a certain player, but when they are plagued by injury the year of their drafting then I think it's fair to suggest that played a major part.

Anyway, the reason he slipped through matters little now, as it does with Johncock, Rutten or Pearce from Port. If the draft was held again with the benefit of hindsight, Knights would be taken very high.

The thing I love about him is that unlike some others who find so much of the ball, he doesn't pad his stats with the cheap insignificant possessions.

[Macca19]

Macca 19 I suggest you watch a couple of games if possible - especially the recent one against Brisbane.

Knights has impressed us all with his dramatic improvement in kicking and handball efficiency, his ball magnet ability we already knew he had but now he takes the ball at pace and puts on a little burst of speed to evade the opposition and in many cases run away. He is being played in the guts more than Goodwin and Edwards these days and is giving us hope for the future.

I never said he wasnt a good player. I never said he hasnt improved. Hes answered a lot of critics this year. I simply dont believe that he "shits" all over Salopek like Sal is some sort of dud. Its simply not true.

[jmorg1]

I never said he wasnt a good player. I never said he hasnt improved. Hes answered a lot of critics this year. I simply dont believe that he "shits" all over Salopek like Sal is some sort of dud. Its simply not true.

did someone say that?

[Macca19]

Not everybody needs to be good at being an inside player. With his pace and ability Danyle doesnt need to play inside all that often.

Danyle's one big fault last year was his kicking. A lot of his kicks were poor floaters and all sorts. From what Ive seen in his pre season and regular season games so far this year, its something he seriously worked on over the summer and now his kicking is as good as any other player in the Port team.

Jmorg - No, m23 did not say Sal was a dud. Sal is better than people give him credit for. Hes worked hard to come from numerous setbacks and is now a very important part of our midfield - just like we hoped and what he always showed glimpses of. The two players, although they play different styles, are pretty even.

[Capitalist]

Not everybody needs to be good at being an inside player. With his pace and ability Danyle doesnt need to play inside all that often.

Danyle's one big fault last year was his kicking. A lot of his kicks were poor floaters and all sorts. From what Ive seen in his pre season and regular season games so far this year, its something he seriously worked on over the summer and now his kicking is as good as any other player in the Port team.

Jmorg - No, m23 did not say Sal was a dud. Sal is better than people give him credit for. Hes worked hard to come from numerous setbacks and is now a very important part of our midfield - just like we hoped and what he always showed glimpses of. The two players, although they play different styles, are pretty even.


is salopek the one who is thought to be leaving at year end ? or is that thurstans ?

[Southerntakeover]

Knights is having the break out year this year id thought hed have last year.


Oh yeah, and Reilly > Salopek.

[Capitalist]

Knights is having the break out year this year id thought hed have last year.


Oh yeah, and Reilly > Salopek.

so then is Knights > Rielly or Reilly > Knights or Reilly = Kinights but play different roles :D

[macca23]

Knights craps all over Salopek as a player. Salopek will be a good footballer over the years - Knights will be at a level above that.





I simply dont believe that he "shits" all over Salopek like Sal is some sort of dud. Its simply not true.

Macca, as I was the one that obviously started you off with my comments - nowhere did I say that Salopek was a dud. I acknowledged that Salopek will be a good player for many years.

I just happen to believe - and if you check my posts over the last 2 years they will verify it - that Knights is going to be something special as a player.

Another Goodwin. :thumbsu:

[SA_Stazza]

........

I haven't watched much of him this year, so don't know how his disposal has improved or how much of his disposal is pressured.

I think we are also well awar that pure possession numbers are no longer as relevant as they used to be.


So any idea what sort of player he will develop into ... my early thoughts were a Matt Connell type - but don't know if this may have changed over the past 18 months.

1. That is precisely why I gave mention to his extreme efficiency of late, and highlighted the fact that he has consistently ranked highly in official champion data rankings - which are based on the efficiency, manner and importance of disposals, NOT just "pure possession numbers" :rolleyes:

2. From the word go he reminded me ALOT of a young Simon Goodwin in the premiership years of '97 and '98 - Long-kicking left footer with an uncanny ability to find the ball through the middle and across half-back, earlier on preferring to use the hands in close, just the way he moves even! This year he has convinced me even more so that this is the type of player he could become, and the positive for Knights is his right foot is as good as his left when kicking over long distances - something Goodwin never had. The only difference between the two in comparison is Goodwin tended to win alot more of his possessions in a contested manner from the word go, but as time has gone on he too, has started to rake up high uncontested possession numbers (without hindering his contested possie numbers). We have even seen Reilly go from being an "outside" player whose possies were often uncontested to more of an inside player who wins the contested ball often and regularly gets clearances (ala Goodwin) so there is no reason why Knights couldnt do the same.

Don't know where you pulled Connell or Trigger from?!?! Obviously they both had the ability of finding the nut often but Connell was as soft as butter on a hot roll and his kick was so akin to a 9 Iron, every player who eventually marked the ball was at risk of being admitted to the ICU. :eek:
Trigger I had great respect for, being a Port Magpies fan growing up ensured that - but he too had a suss kicking action and floated balls often although like Connell, managed to find the ball often.


Macca, as I was the one that obviously started you off with my comments - nowhere did I say that Salopek was a dud. I acknowledged that Salopek will be a good player for many years.

I just happen to believe - and if you check my posts over the last 2 years they will verify it - that Knights is going to be something special as a player.

Another Goodwin. :thumbsu:

Knights only needs to add another 2 kilograms to his frame to be on par with Goodwin weight-wise, also on par with the likes of Reilly, Thompson and Shirley who have been in the system for quite some time now so he has a distinct advantage in that area :thumbsu:

I think Goodwin would be the perfect role-model to mentor Knights, he should be following Goody around the club like a Balinese gypsy on a tourist! :p

[ok.crows]

From what I remember when Knights was drafted, his ball magnetism has never been put under question. He averaged huge amounts in the TAC Cup as well. Its always been his disposal and his kicking action which put him down the list.

Actually, it was a question of his knees, wasn't it?

[Southerntakeover]

Knights only needs to add another 2 kilograms to his frame to be on par with Goodwin weight-wise, also on par with the likes of Reilly, Thompson and Shirley who have been in the system for quite some time now so he has a distinct advantage in that area :thumbsu:

I think Goodwin would be the perfect role-model to mentor Knights, he should be following Goody around the club like a Balinese gypsy on a tourist! :p

Wasnt the rumour that Macca had taken Mr. Chivalry under his wing?

[dyertribe]

Knights craps all over Salopek as a player. Salopek will be a good footballer over the years - Knights will be at a level above that.

Also have to disagree (love these all-too rare battles between 23 and 19 by the way ;)).

Having watched Sal closely in the past few years he has something very special about him - is far from just an outside midfielder as has been claimed in this thread, by far his best attibute is his skill by foot and cool decision making in heavy midfield traffic, which for mine is reminiscent of Francou in his pomp.

Also got to remember, Salopek was heavily bottom-aged when he was taken - he's still only 21 (22 on 25 June) and to have 50+ games under his belt already despite all his injury and illness worries is a fair effort.

Both are highly-talented players no question - but to say Knights is a cut above at this stage is stretching it somewhat.

[Malibu#27]

1. That is precisely why I gave mention to his extreme efficiency of late, and highlighted the fact that he has consistently ranked highly in official champion data rankings - which are based on the efficiency, manner and importance of disposals, NOT just "pure possession numbers" :rolleyes:

I suppose I was talking more about the 'hurt' factor, which is what I was asking about (note I was asking about rather than suggesting)


Don't know where you pulled Connell or Trigger from?!?! Obviously they both had the ability of finding the nut ....

I didn't suggest Tregenza, only Connell - and to be fair if you look back at some earlier threads on past players current guys are like, at least one Crows fan (relapse) offered the same name.


I agree with dyertribe that theres something pretty tidy about the way Sal goes about his footy too.

[Mong]

2. From the word go he reminded me ALOT of a young Simon Goodwin in the premiership years of '97 and '98 - Long-kicking left footer with an uncanny ability to find the ball through the middle and across half-back, earlier on preferring to use the hands in close, just the way he moves even!

Goodwin wasn't really that player back in 97/98 though. He wasn't a high possession winner/gatherer. He was a tight checking shut down type player with very good skills. Even in his third year, 1999, Goodwin was still only averaging 12 possessions per game for that season. If anything, I think van Berlo now is more like early Goodwin. That's my opinion anyway. Goodwin eventually became more of a ball winner, and made great strides in that area in 2000 and 2001. That's what I'm hoping and expecting happens with van Berlo. He just needs to find the ball a bit more. I think he will over time.

[crowsarethebest]

Also have to disagree (love these all-too rare battles between 23 and 19 by the way ;)).

Having watched Sal closely in the past few years he has something very special about him - is far from just an outside midfielder as has been claimed in this thread, by far his best attibute is his skill by foot and cool decision making in heavy midfield traffic, which for mine is reminiscent of Francou in his pomp.

Also got to remember, Salopek was heavily bottom-aged when he was taken - he's still only 21 (22 on 25 June) and to have 50+ games under his belt already despite all his injury and illness worries is a fair effort.

Both are highly-talented players no question - but to say Knights is a cut above at this stage is stretching it somewhat.

Agreed. IMO Salopek is still in front of Knights. Knights has strung a few good games together but Salopek has done it consistantly. There was a reason why Salopek was rated top 3 but went down a bit to 6. dyertribe described him well. His disposal is top notch and he's very good in traffic.

[macca23]

Also have to disagree (love these all-too rare battles between 23 and 19 by the way ;)).

Having watched Sal closely in the past few years he has something very special about him - is far from just an outside midfielder as has been claimed in this thread, by far his best attibute is his skill by foot and cool decision making in heavy midfield traffic, which for mine is reminiscent of Francou in his pomp.

Also got to remember, Salopek was heavily bottom-aged when he was taken - he's still only 21 (22 on 25 June) and to have 50+ games under his belt already despite all his injury and illness worries is a fair effort.

Both are highly-talented players no question - but to say Knights is a cut above at this stage is stretching it somewhat.

Not IMO DT!!

Knights is only 20 (21 at the end of the season) and has only played 19 games. 19 games - yet this kid was close to being our best player in a hard tough match at the Gabba. In fact he's just getting better every time he goes around this year.

By the time Knights has 50 games on the board, I have no doubt that he will be one of the better mid-fielders in the AFL, not just the AFC. He has a huge upside IMO.

I've been watching Salopek closely from day one as I thought Port had got a steal the year that they drafted him. Salopek never looked remotely as promising as Knights after 19 games, and IMO is only having his break-out year this year.

While I respect Salopek as an up and coming mid-fielder I just don't see the same level of upside in him that I do in Knights.

As is always the case, time will tell.

Maybe we can start a long-term never-ending alternative debate to the Dal Santo/ Reilly one, DT?? ;) :D

[Crow-mo]

ah look, which ever way you take it - comparing pick 6 with pick 56 suggests that the team drafting late did ok.

[*PAF]

Macca, as I was the one that obviously started you off with my comments - nowhere did I say that Salopek was a dud. I acknowledged that Salopek will be a good player for many years.

I just happen to believe - and if you check my posts over the last 2 years they will verify it - that Knights is going to be something special as a player.

Another Goodwin. :thumbsu:
Last year it was Radar and now Knights, pecker obsession is nothing new around here. :)

Sal will be top shelf, no ifs no buts IMO.
If Knights also ends up there good. I called him on here after the very first time I got to see him in a SANFL game so no surprise there.
This year I haven't seen enough Crows games so far to have an opinion one way or another, although reading reports it sounds as if he has been doing the hard work off the track to improve on his weaker parts of the game.

[*PAF]

ah look, which ever way you take it - comparing pick 6 with pick 56 suggests that the team drafting late did ok.
We got Pearce even later than that. :thumbsu:

[Stiffy_18]

We got Pearce even later than that. :thumbsu:
And we got Rutten later than you lot got Pearce :p :thumbsu:

My daddy is bigger and stronger than your daddy :p

Crow-mo is right, when you are holding those sort of debates it tells us that at works team picking that late has done OK.

[*PAF]

And we got Rutten later than you lot got Pearce :p :thumbsu:
...
Dud. He only scores goals when playing against Port Adelaide. :D

[Stiffy_18]

Dud. He only scores goals when playing against Port Adelaide. :D
:D :thumbsu:

[Macca19]

I've been watching Salopek closely from day one as I thought Port had got a steal the year that they drafted him. Salopek never looked remotely as promising as Knights after 19 games, and IMO is only having his break-out year this year.

I disagree with that but the situations have been different. Knights has had a pretty injury free career to date. Good on him, shows he is durable. Salopek had 2 shoulder recons, a bout of Glandular Fever, strained knee ligaments and a 7 week shin injury in his first 3 seasons. He missed a lot of football. Even through that he played a lot of games at AFL level.

In my opinion he was having an excellent 2004 (2nd season) when he missed 2 months with GF. Had he not missed that much footy, I have no doubt he would have played every game that year and become a Premiership player at 19.

Salopek had his breakout year last year, in my opinion. This year he has improved even more. Salopek, in my opinion, has a lot of improvement left in him. Although the season is still early, hes improved his figures in almost every category again this year.

[macca23]

I disagree with that but the situations have been different. Knights has had a pretty injury free career to date. Good on him, shows he is durable. Salopek had 2 shoulder recons, a bout of Glandular Fever, strained knee ligaments and a 7 week shin injury in his first 3 seasons. He missed a lot of football. Even through that he played a lot of games at AFL level.

In my opinion he was having an excellent 2004 (2nd season) when he missed 2 months with GF. Had he not missed that much footy, I have no doubt he would have played every game that year and become a Premiership player at 19.

Salopek had his breakout year last year, in my opinion. This year he has improved even more. Salopek, in my opinion, has a lot of improvement left in him. Although the season is still early, hes improved his figures in almost every category again this year.

It's an interesting debate Macca.

The good thing is that we are only arguing just how good each of these players are and are going to be - not whether one or both are duds. :thumbsu:

Time will tell, although we still might never agree even then. :D

[*PAF]

... The good thing is that we are only arguing just how good each of these players are and are going to be - not whether one or both are duds. :thumbsu:
...
Too true. :thumbsu:

[Macca19]

It's an interesting debate Macca.

The good thing is that we are only arguing just how good each of these players are and are going to be - not whether one or both are duds. :thumbsu:

Time will tell, although we still might never agree even then. :D

True true! :D

[Asgardian]

Is counting stats really a true indicator in today's game?

Personally I doubt it

Look at the "junk time" possessions that are racked up, kicking backwards, holding onto the ball near the end of a quarter, doing all the time wasting stuff, that regardless of game situation, still counts as a stat

[earlsta]

Knights wins a lot of contested possessions. ala (Judd)

No time wasting stuff there.

[Mong]

I wouldn't mind seeing a comparison of Knights with Adam Thomson. They were taken in the same draft.

[Mong]

Is counting stats really a true indicator in today's game?

Personally I doubt it

Look at the "junk time" possessions that are racked up, kicking backwards, holding onto the ball near the end of a quarter, doing all the time wasting stuff, that regardless of game situation, still counts as a stat

You only have to watch Knights play to see that we get good value for his possessions.

[SA_Stazza]

Is counting stats really a true indicator in today's game?

Personally I doubt it

Look at the "junk time" possessions that are racked up, kicking backwards, holding onto the ball near the end of a quarter, doing all the time wasting stuff, that regardless of game situation, still counts as a stat

:eek: :eek: :eek:


Counting the stats that matter IS a true indicator.

There is no greater indicator of a player's performance than his critical statistics. How do you think the coaches attain vital information about their playing squad these days? It starts from junior levels and is scrutinised to the very last contested kick, uncontested kick, mark on a lead, uncontested mark, mark from opposition kick, handball receive, hardball get, groundball get, score assist, score launch, Inside 50, Rebound 50, hitout to advantage, clearance, spoil, free for, free against, groundball get inside 50..... i could go on!

When I watch football, this is what I see, this is what I watch for.. if you don't, then you are missing so much of what is going on!

[RooDog]

I wouldn't mind seeing a comparison of Knights with Adam Thomson. They were taken in the same draft.
adam thomson only averages something like 13 disposals with a high of 17 and 2 goals against west coast last year.

i think those that put knights ahead of sal are talking out there rears, they would both be even at the moment. after watching highlights of sal as a junior i thought oh here is just another soft reciever but i was wrong on that, the kid has real talent, was very bottom age in his draft. has superb skills and vision especially under pressure, i think port have a keeper here as we do with knights. knights has improved his disposal this year an unbelievable amount and is really starting to make games his own, but sal does this for port too....

too hard to split them at the moment only time will tell

[Macca19]

adam thomson only averages something like 13 disposals with a high of 17 and 2 goals against west coast last year.



Thomsons figures were good last year, not too dissimilar to Knights when you put it into time on ground context.

He averaged 14.1 disposals in 61 minutes last year. This was 3rd at the club. Knights averaged 13.1 in 51 minutes (6th in the league).

He averaged the 3rd most clearances per game at Port (3.6, which equals 2nd best when taking into account TOG) and the Lade/Thomson ruck/rover combination was the 2nd best at the club with 18. All this despite him playing only 13 games and only 61 minutes of game time.

The fact he hasnt got a game yet this year has baffled Port supporters.

[Crow-mo]

Is counting stats really a true indicator in today's game?

Personally I doubt it

Look at the "junk time" possessions that are racked up, kicking backwards, holding onto the ball near the end of a quarter, doing all the time wasting stuff, that regardless of game situation, still counts as a stat

as a generic point, I agree.

but like everything, all stats are not created equally and when combined still provided a fairly informed opinion on one player relative to others under the same measurement regime.

[Peninsula Boy]

Difference is Sala has and has always had a good leg.

The same can't be same for Knights.

[*PAF]

Difference is Sala has and has always had a good leg.

The same can't be same for Knights.
Watching for his improved kicking and decision making skills tonight. Perhaps it's just the wrong night to do that as it still looks sus so far.

[Asgardian]

Counting the stats that matter IS a true indicator.

There is no greater indicator of a player's performance than his critical statistics.

Sure, I am in total agreement

But the problem with the usual "kick, handpass, mark" stats, is that they do not differentiate between the "junk time" stats and the "game important" stats.

Hence the end of game totals are/can be misleading.

For example if player A gets 15 disposals, of which 10 of them are into F50 disposals.
Then player B gets 25 disposals, but only 2 of them are into F50 disposals.

You can say with some accuracy that player A had the more important game.

Yep, lots of other factors are important, position, time on ground, contested possessions, etc, but you can see where I'm coming from I'd imagine.

[flackjack]

Watching for his improved kicking and decision making skills tonight. Perhaps it's just the wrong night to do that as it still looks sus so far.

Well...I suggest you watch next week's crows game too.:o

[*PAF]

Well...I suggest you watch next week's crows game too.:o
Why are you embarrassed?

[CrowHop]

Thomsons figures were good last year, not too dissimilar to Knights when you put it into time on ground context.

He averaged 14.1 disposals in 61 minutes last year. This was 3rd at the club. Knights averaged 13.1 in 51 minutes (6th in the league).

He averaged the 3rd most clearances per game at Port (3.6, which equals 2nd best when taking into account TOG) and the Lade/Thomson ruck/rover combination was the 2nd best at the club with 18. All this despite him playing only 13 games and only 61 minutes of game time.

The fact he hasnt got a game yet this year has baffled Port supporters.

Yeah I tend to agree. I like the kid and think those type of hard inside players are far and few between. I'd have him at the AFC anyday and I'd part with a quality draft pick or player equivalent to get him there.

[*PAF]

I can assure you, you couldn't have picked a worse night to watch his disposal, made more errors than he has in a while. VB struggled too I thought, and Stevens...well he frustrates me something chronic.
:thumbsu:
Having read the reports over the year I kind of figured that.

Sometimes though people need to recognise the opposition as well rather than just have a go at players for not being as good.
Bit like when people said our kicking at goal against you lot was shit. It was shit because of the pressure applied by your backline.

Richmond’s youngster’s cavalier tactics caused a bit of confusion for your players and coaches alike last night and as such deserve to have some credit given to them.

[Malibu#27]

Watching for his improved kicking and decision making skills tonight. Perhaps it's just the wrong night to do that as it still looks sus so far.

I did the same ... was keeping track of non uncontested possessions and shanks trying to get a feel for where he gets the ball. Certainly runs hard, but on last night wasn't overly damaging..... and didnt seem to have his kicking boot on - I think I counted 3 shanks in the first quarter (even if one did helicopter through for goal)

Its only one game, but I'm satisfied he still has some work to do on his disposal. He certainly knows where to go to get a lot of ball ... dont think that will ever be a problem.

[SA_Stazza]

Sure, I am in total agreement

But the problem with the usual "kick, handpass, mark" stats, is that they do not differentiate between the "junk time" stats and the "game important" stats.

Hence the end of game totals are/can be misleading.

For example if player A gets 15 disposals, of which 10 of them are into F50 disposals.
Then player B gets 25 disposals, but only 2 of them are into F50 disposals.

You can say with some accuracy that player A had the more important game.

Yep, lots of other factors are important, position, time on ground, contested possessions, etc, but you can see where I'm coming from I'd imagine.

Yes I understand exactly what you are saying, but which end of game totals are you looking at?? :confused:

The stats tables show how many of Player A's kicks were effective, how many were I50's or R50's, how many were clangers, how many were contested, how many were uncontested, how many were receives, how many were clearances.... it is clear to see for everyone!

So I'm not really sure where you are looking?? :confused:

I more so question the merits of the terms "junk time" and "game important" because for some teams kicking the ball around the back 50 until their teammates down the ground shift to the opposite side of the ground to create runners and space is hardly "wasting kicks" - it is an integral part of the team's structure!!! Fair enough if a team is 5 goals up and decides to chip it around for the last 5 minutes of the match that is obviously staining the stats a little but in today's modern, ultra-even competition how often do we really see stuff like that anymore while a majority of the games are still in the balance and within less than 3 or 4 goals with 5 minutes to go?

[SpringChoke]

A better comparison would be Perrie V Tredrea.

[flackjack]

Why are you embarrassed?

Well..I gotta admit a few of his disposals by Chris Knights last night were a bit dodgy, especially that kick for goal which went throught anyway.

[PAFC2004]

of course you do, i don't expect any stats will ever change your mind;)

as for Knights, it was pretty obvious early on that he was a going to be a very good player, makes you wonder how much players gain from going into a sucessful SANFL side and making there mark rather than a crappy one

And of course adelaide supporters will think differently. At this stage of their respective careers, to suggest Salopek is not as good a player as knights is absolutely ludicrous.

[SA_Stazza]

And of course adelaide supporters will think differently. At this stage of their respective careers, to suggest Salopek is not as good a player as knights is absolutely ludicrous.

Agree with you 100% but that's not why I started the thread. I never suggested Knights was better than Salopek, I merely pointed out the figures and made mention that it was interesting to see two players who play similar roles picked at different stages in each respective draft.

The biggest difference between the two being that Salopek gets alot more handball receives and is a weapon as a link between the lines and Knights usually has an uncanny ability of knowing where the ball is going to come out, gathers alot of hardball/looseball gets defensive side of the congestion or reads the play well enough to get into a position where he can become that link.

I rate both very, very highly :thumbsu:

[*PAF]

Well..I gotta admit a few of his disposals by Chris Knights last night were a bit dodgy, especially that kick for goal which went throught anyway.
I was only mucking about :) , but even if his disposal does not become first class does not mean he will not become a top player.
Example A: Francou.
Example B: Kane Cornes.
Both top ball getters with below AFL disposal.

Exammple C: There are plenty more that fit the bill.

[Crow-mo]

And of course adelaide supporters will think differently. At this stage of their respective careers, to suggest Salopek is not as good a player as knights is absolutely ludicrous.

why?

statistically he is already a good way in front. and that's with one player having played 19 games versus the other's 50+.

have your opinion, but when one player already has a clear edge it's not so ludicrous to have a partisan view.

[Kane McGoodwin]

why?

statistically he is already a good way in front. and that's with one player having played 19 games versus the other's 50+.

have your opinion, but when one player already has a clear edge it's not so ludicrous to have a partisan view.
They are different types of players. IMO, Salopek has more class & more of a goal-kicking midfielder, but Knights gets more of the ball. Both will be very handy players for their respective teams.