View Full Version : Long to the forward Line
I don't care what any of the fancy new age football (basketball) chip it around etc crap football experts say, you are better kicking it long to a contest and having numbers at the fall of the ball instead of chipping it around and bloody turning it over midfield. Frustrating!!!!!!!!!!!
Lions_Master
19 May 2007, 18:29
We need more key forwards.
campbell
19 May 2007, 18:31
Drummond would have been helpful today.Kicked 7 the other week in the ressies.
Charman as well if we had Leui or Wood in the ruck with Beau.
The Flying Belgian
19 May 2007, 18:36
Drummond would have been helpful today.
He played today.
campbell
19 May 2007, 18:38
He played today.
IN the forward line, beside Brown?
The Flying Belgian
19 May 2007, 19:38
IN the forward line, beside Brown?
At times, but not that often from what I saw.
campbell
19 May 2007, 19:41
At times, but not that often from what I saw.
Drummond played well in the ressies a few weeks ago and kicked a bag. Spent his junior footy in the forward line.A natural talent in that area. It couldn't hurt to try him, could it?
Kochie 16
19 May 2007, 19:44
I don't care what any of the fancy new age football (basketball) chip it around etc crap football experts say, you are better kicking it long to a contest and having numbers at the fall of the ball instead of chipping it around and bloody turning it over midfield. Frustrating!!!!!!!!!!!
That what i was saying at the end of round 2 and i was bagged for it. It seems we are following the poineers of the game: The Swans.(Cough Cough) Everyone seems to be following their short passing game and well, it is crap! The only team that seems to be sticking to the 'long bomb' option is the Kangas. Good onya Roo boys.
Lions_Master
19 May 2007, 19:49
Drummond played well in the ressies a few weeks ago and kicked a bag. Spent his junior footy in the forward line.A natural talent in that area. It couldn't hurt to try him, could it?
We can try it.
TheBrownDog
19 May 2007, 21:04
That what i was saying at the end of round 2 and i was bagged for it. It seems we are following the poineers of the game: The Swans.(Cough Cough) Everyone seems to be following their short passing game and well, it is crap! The only team that seems to be sticking to the 'long bomb' option is the Kangas. Good onya Roo boys.
We tried the long bomb game against the Crows last week and got smashed.
Got any other brainstorms kochie?
loyallion
19 May 2007, 21:29
It would be great if we had Bradshaw back in this side because seriously we need him. Patfull this kid has been pretty quiet for the past 3 games I wouldnt be supriseed if he gets dropped next week ( I dont want this to happen) Another one I think we will be out of the side will be Brennan I think he has done his dash for Leigh.
Actually more than anything we missed Chris Johnson without him we had a huge hole in the forward line.
Kochie 16
19 May 2007, 22:27
We tried the long bomb game against the Crows last week and got smashed.
Got any other brainstorms kochie?
ANother tall option in the forward line to take the load off of browny. Can't wait for clarky to return to see if he is all you've hyped him up to be Brown dog.
Drummond played well in the ressies a few weeks ago and kicked a bag. Spent his junior footy in the forward line.A natural talent in that area. It couldn't hurt to try him, could it?
IIRC, Drummo joined the Lions after playing at least 1 season at fullback in the AFLQ.
He is a third tall forward option at best.
campbell
19 May 2007, 22:54
IIRC, Drummo joined the Lions after playing at least 1 season at fullback in the AFLQ.
He is a third tall forward option at best.
Why not try him though. His junior days were in the forward line.Gotta be worth a thought at least.He got a goal today.He got 7 in the ressies the other week. Why not try something with him. Surely its worth it, what we are doing now is NOT working.
At the moment Drummond is a better option on the wing running forward with the ball, our best forward line set up includes using Brown and Clark, what worried me today was the amount of times we went to Brown and he was outnumbered, he created a contest, the ball hit the ground and not one lions player was there, the likes of Harding, Allan, McGrath, Rischitelli etc should of been pushing as hard to Brown as possible. They didn't!
campbell
19 May 2007, 23:24
At the moment Drummond is a better option on the wing running forward with the ball, our best forward line set up includes using Brown and Clark, what worried me today was the amount of times we went to Brown and he was outnumbered, he created a contest, the ball hit the ground and not one lions player was there, the likes of Harding, Allan, McGrath, Rischitelli etc should of been pushing as hard to Brown as possible. They didn't!
We miss Fly and Harty, those crumbers that actually are front and centre.
Ash is just so inconsistent.
TheBrownDog
19 May 2007, 23:27
We miss Fly and Harty, those crumbers that actually are front and centre.
Ash is just so inconsistent.
Anyone know why Ash wasn't around Browny's feet after the first quarter? Apart from a marking contest late in the game, he seemed to vanish.
BigCat2
19 May 2007, 23:35
At the moment Drummond is a better option on the wing running forward with the ball, our best forward line set up includes using Brown and Clark, what worried me today was the amount of times we went to Brown and he was outnumbered, he created a contest, the ball hit the ground and not one lions player was there, the likes of Harding, Allan, McGrath, Rischitelli etc should of been pushing as hard to Brown as possible. They didn't!
Exactly, where are our spare guys when 3526 defenders are playing on Brown?
And it's not just in the forward line either (although that's where it's most clearly seen), but through the middle and at half back we're just as bad. We'll have a bunch of blokes close together, handballing to each other but none can really get free, due to poor positioning and not working for each other (I struggle to remember even 5 shepherds provided by our guys in this game). In contrast, Essendon today always seemed to have a guy clear on the outside ready to receive and then run, even if initially it looks like we're going to have the better chance to clear the 50/50 ball.
Actually, since round 2 we haven't really been playing that well. Even the Carlton game could've easily gone the other way. It seems like some players (and fans alike) may have gotten a bit ahead of themselves after a 2-0 start.
We have to forget playing Brown deep in the forward line. This just makes it easy for teams to double and tripple team him. Bring him further up the ground let him run his opponents around. Mcgrath is getting his 1 or 2 goals every week thats all you can expect from a crumbing forward. Somebody else has to start taking marks deep up forward. I'm just not sure who.
TheBrownDog
20 May 2007, 00:02
Actually, since round 2 we haven't really been playing that well. Even the Carlton game could've easily gone the other way. It seems like some players (and fans alike) may have gotten a bit ahead of themselves after a 2-0 start.
Guilty. :o
I had The Crows and Bombers pencilled in as wins.
BigCat2
20 May 2007, 00:07
Guilty. :o
I had The Crows and Bombers pencilled in as wins.
I probably had half a toe in that boat as well, so I can't claim moral high ground. :p
I thought Crows and Essedon would be tough games, but didn't expect us to play so poorly, so cluelessly and for so long in both of them.
We tried the long bomb game against the Crows last week and got smashed.
Got any other brainstorms kochie?
We tried it today too and got smashed again.
Time and time again, the ball got "bombed" long to Brown and time and time again he got double and triple teamed.
Brown is a great player but not great enough to have both Michael and Fletcher standing him as well as a third defender coming in to help as well.
The question that needs to be addressed is why were the Bombers allowed to have both their best defenders covering Brown.??????'
What the hell was wrong with having a second option permanently in the forward line and using that second option, at (least as a threat) to make the Bombers defenders more accountable?????
This "long to the forward line" mantra is absolutely useless if you have only one forward target and keep telegraphing it all day long.
It's just too easy for the defenders.
I believe we have to have a massive rethink about the way we go about delivering the ball to the forward line. At the moment the forward "line" is not a line at all....it's a one man band.....Browny or bust
At the present time were are getting busted.....big time.
:thumbsd:
BigCat2
20 May 2007, 00:45
We saw in several games in 2005 and 2006 that Browny has the ability to lift an take big grabs in a 1 on 2 or 1 on 3 contest - but it's impossible to have to do this to earn every kick. I reckon the healthy mix is to have some nice marks out on the lead, some nice contested 1 on 1's, then a couple of screamers in a pack. Can't take on the whole world in every contest.
Leigh oh Leigh if you can somehow hear my thoughts, please get somebody else down ther to help Browny, even if that person isn't a 50 goal a year forward. Gotta at least have one person to hold 1 or 2 defenders at bay in a contest, shielding position to give Browny a chance. In the short term I vote for Jamie Charman. In the long term who knows, might depend on how Mitch Clark performs in the next few weeks, either in seniors or ressies.
BigCat2
20 May 2007, 00:50
I believe we have to have a massive rethink about the way we go about delivering the ball to the forward line. At the moment the forward "line" is not a line at all....it's a one man band.....Browny or bust
At the present time were are getting busted.....big time.
:thumbsd:
Agreed. And look at round 2 vs St Kilda where he got 5 goals - in truth, had he only kicked 1 or 2 we would've still won comfortably. Sherman and Patfull also starred for us that night. We also looked good in the first 3 pre-season games where we had multiple forward options, but then seemed to struggle in the GF when Browny returned. I don't think it's a coincidence that we looked much better going forward when we had multiple players, and an actual structure there. Now because of Brown's quality, our midfielders only think of him and it appears that other forwards (who are they by the way, apart from McGrath?) are just sitting back to watch Browny do his stuff.
It's almost like the West Indies team. If Brian Lara was out the rest of the players would apply themselves and battle hard, but when Lara was back in most of them would just throw their wickets away. It's not Brown or Lara's fault that this has happened - surely the players, and to a lesser extent the coach, have to have a think.
Lions_Master
20 May 2007, 02:04
Agreed. And look at round 2 vs St Kilda where he got 5 goals - in truth, had he only kicked 1 or 2 we would've still won comfortably. Sherman and Patfull also starred for us that night. We also looked good in the first 3 pre-season games where we had multiple forward options, but then seemed to struggle in the GF when Browny returned. I don't think it's a coincidence that we looked much better going forward when we had multiple players, and an actual structure there. Now because of Brown's quality, our midfielders only think of him and it appears that other forwards (who are they by the way, apart from McGrath?) are just sitting back to watch Browny do his stuff.
It's almost like the West Indies team. If Brian Lara was out the rest of the players would apply themselves and battle hard, but when Lara was back in most of them would just throw their wickets away. It's not Brown or Lara's fault that this has happened - surely the players, and to a lesser extent the coach, have to have a think.
I agree with you. In the Pre season we played better as a team.
Grimreepah
20 May 2007, 04:33
Exactly, where are our spare guys when 3526 defenders are playing on Brown?
I agree with sentiments of you and acuguy and others asking this question. Essendon had more players contesting the mark, then they had more players at the drop of the ball.
I have another cricket analogy BigCat. We seem to be playing an extra runner at the expense of a forward. When cricket sides pick an extra batsman you can sometimes have batting collapses because the batsmen tend take less responsibility. I wonder if this is happening with our midfield. Are the midfielders relaxing a fraction knowing there is a spare guy around to help them out?
notting18
20 May 2007, 12:00
I think you can't just bomb the ball blindly into the forward line but we should look for the long ball as first option.
I knew the game was lost yesterday when i saw Browny standing alone, and i mean alone with nobody near him at all for the first time in the game, on the 50 and the boys were chipping the ball around 40 metres infront of him!!
BigCat2
20 May 2007, 13:51
I agree with sentiments of you and acuguy and others asking this question. Essendon had more players contesting the mark, then they had more players at the drop of the ball.
I have another cricket analogy BigCat. We seem to be playing an extra runner at the expense of a forward. When cricket sides pick an extra batsman you can sometimes have batting collapses because the batsmen tend take less responsibility. I wonder if this is happening with our midfield. Are the midfielders relaxing a fraction knowing there is a spare guy around to help them out?
Possibly. I just don't see any run or fluency through the middle. Blokes would stand flat-footed, as though simply by handballing it short 4-5 times you'll get a free runner. Hello that doesn't happen - you handball it around a bit until you can dish it off to a runner in space (and therefore requires shepherds to be laid), not simply by playing hacky-sack. Like I noted in another post elsewhere, our ball movement was pretty ordinary all over the park, it's just the terrible work rate of our forwards other than Brown and the extra numbers Essendon had in defence that showed it up much more.
In 2001-2004 we saw that Port Adelaide were possibly even more dominant than us during the home & away rounds, but they didn't perform nearly as well in finals. Finals football was where their chipping style would fall down. We beat teams who had a lot of talented players by playing accountable football, and beating their direct man. When Port turned on the aggressive, running game in the 2004 GF, our old legs simply couldn't go with them.
From last night's game, I struggle to name even 3 players who beat their man. You can't win by collecting 5274 cheap possessions, and failing to win your own contest.
It isn't about bombing long all the time to the forward line, it is about making decisions in the centre of the field, is it better to kick long to a target be it brown, patful, charman if they are there or is it better to chip it around and turn it over in the middle of the field, i for one would rather take our chances with the ball deep in our forward line. It blows me away how so many rules of footy ( coaching ) have been thrown out the window. For eg. never go short to a fifty, fifty contest. Chipping and spreading doesn't win flags, Swans an exception but if we want to play like them then i am changing clubs.
konstas_87
21 May 2007, 11:36
We have to forget playing Brown deep in the forward line. This just makes it easy for teams to double and tripple team him. Bring him further up the ground let him run his opponents around. Mcgrath is getting his 1 or 2 goals every week thats all you can expect from a crumbing forward. Somebody else has to start taking marks deep up forward. I'm just not sure who.
i agree.
Kochie 16
21 May 2007, 17:21
We have to forget playing Brown deep in the forward line. This just makes it easy for teams to double and tripple team him. Bring him further up the ground let him run his opponents around. Mcgrath is getting his 1 or 2 goals every week thats all you can expect from a crumbing forward. Somebody else has to start taking marks deep up forward. I'm just not sure who.
This is exactly why they should bring another tall forward in to help take the load off of browny. Hey, whay not bring Clarky in so SOme of us can see how good he is.
On other news, We have gathered here today to witness the 1000th post from the BigFooty user Known as Kochie 16.
LuckyLuke
21 May 2007, 17:33
On other news, We have gathered here today to witness the 1000th post from the BigFooty user Known as Kochie 16.
1000 quality posts.:rolleyes:
Kochie 16
21 May 2007, 17:35
1000 quality posts.:rolleyes:
Not even I'm game enough to say that. LOL!:eek:
LuckyLuke
21 May 2007, 17:37
Not even I'm game enough to say that. LOL!:eek:
LOL! *shakes head*
maroon and blue
23 May 2007, 12:48
I don't care what any of the fancy new age football (basketball) chip it around etc crap football experts say, you are better kicking it long to a contest and having numbers at the fall of the ball instead of chipping it around and bloody turning it over midfield. Frustrating!!!!!!!!!!!
You should be a sports consultant! A report in the Age today states that long accurate kicking to a teammate is the most valuable thing a player can do. On their scale every time this is done it adds a point to the team's score. Turnover kicking subtracts abt .6 of a point. Chipping would only exacerbate this. WELL DONE.:)
why does kicking accurately score 1 point but a turnover only .6 of a point. doesn't really make sense.
Tim the Toolman
23 May 2007, 14:50
Because you still have to get rid of it
OldLion
23 May 2007, 15:33
The problem is - getting caught going the other way. Witness last week - Fletcher spotting up Hird with a 60m pass after a 3 on 1 with JB, and away we go.
Kicking long also must come with one on one - there must be contest otherwise it's coast-to-coast goals.
Exactly OldLion.
In football terms, kicking long only works if you kick accurately and to a winnable contest. Too often we have kicked to contests where we are at a disadvantage or, when the contest is winnable, our disposal has not been to the best advantage of the target. Going on the last couple of weeks, this aspect of our game has not come on since we did the same to Braddy last year.
I think the success of kicking it long is more dependant on the skills of the crumbers than even the skills of the receiver/tall. Using the previous scenario as an example, why weren't they beating some one as ungainly as Fletcher to the ball? Absolutely shocking!!
maroon and blue
26 May 2007, 16:39
They were talking about money ball on 3LO today and it was mentioned that the average height of the the last 7 premiership teams was 189cm and weight 87kg,s which is preety impressive. Our gf teams were at least 189 cm, just wondering what our height/weight is this week. Anyone willing to do the math?
Grimreepah
26 May 2007, 17:05
They were talking about money ball on 3LO today and it was mentioned that the average height of the the last 7 premiership teams was 189cm and weight 87kg,s which is preety impressive. Our gf teams were at least 189 cm, just wondering what our height/weight is this week. Anyone willing to do the math?
Before anyone goes to the trouble, footywire (http://www.footywire.com/) shows these stats after the match (eg. click on the match stats of the St Kilda/Freo game).
maroon and blue
26 May 2007, 17:10
Thank you GM for your assistance.:)
maroon and blue
26 May 2007, 17:17
More facts from money ball, centre tap outs are not significant, as are boundary line clearances and umpires decisions(what about jumper clash?). The team that bounces the ball the most wins the game. Although they did admit their analysis is flawed as it shows midfielders as the most contributive in the game. What price a good chf,ff,hff, fp who can take a mark or shark a goal?
BigCat2
26 May 2007, 18:38
Thank you GM for your assistance.:)
Who? :p
maroon and blue
26 May 2007, 18:51
Sorry I meant GR, keep thinking of Genetec Modified, soy beans and all.:o