Concessions for Brisbane & Sydney

[Maverick]

I say "extend our zones"..."More concessions please".

What gets me mad is Victorian clubs whinging about our concessions. Especially when it comes from Eddie Double Chin Fat-Head McGuire.

Hey Fat-Head....you parasite...stop pinching our players and we will be happy to give away our concessions.

Collingwood have pinched the following from Brisbane & Sydney with sweet F***-all in return - Buckley, O'Bree, Rocca.

Until this issue is resolved the concessions should remain.

The concessions we currently have, do not compensate for the loss of Buckley, O'Bree, Hilton, Lawrence and B Voss.


:)

[MSB ROYS]

I think all the teams should have a local player than choose from. Just where the Melb clubs would choose from would be debatable. But really who cares!

One of the teams that really suffers is Geelong that provides many player from the Falcons to the AFL. Hardly any of them play for Geelong.

[BrainOfMorbius]

Originally posted by MSB ROYS
I think all the teams should have a local player than choose from. Just where the Melb clubs would choose from would be debatable. But really who cares!

One of the teams that really suffers is Geelong that provides many player from the Falcons to the AFL. Hardly any of them play for Geelong.
Equally, hardly any Victorian kiddies have to move further than a brief train/bus ride from their parents' place to play for a Melbourne side OR Geelong.

[Maverick]

From Lions.com.au

MELBOURNE LOBBY HITS BACK
Collingwood president Eddie McGuire would resign and Essendon president Graeme McMahon would go to court hand-in-hand with Carlton’s John Elliott. That was the reaction yesterday to Lions coach Leigh Matthews’ strong advocation of the proposed Developing States Rule which would give the Lions first crack at a young Queenslander or two at draft time. McGuire said he would consider his future at Collingwood if the AFL continued and increased what he perceived as its “assistance” to the northern states. “This is big enough to go to court,” McMahon added. Despite Matthews going to pains to explain that the Lions did not want blanket access to local youngsters and would go to the extent of relinquishing top draft picks under a bidding system as fairplay, the idea was well and truly lost in the flood of emotional sentiments from the powerful Victorian presidents.



Fat Head McGuire is at it again.

[BrisGirl]

They should all go and have a good long chat with their own Recruitment Managers.

If they fail miserably at junior recruitment level and don't nurture and train the boys properly, of the ones they do pick up, why is that the fault of a Club that does.

Envy is such an ugly emotion.

As they say: 'Never look to yourself for your own faults, always try to blame someone else'.

[Danni]

It's all blown out of proportion just to get the fans riled up and invoke the same sort of 'anti-brisbane' movement. Usually when a club has the sort of success we have had (looking back from round 10 2001 onwards) supporters of other clubs take an instant dislike to the successful team, that hasn't happened. Sheedy tried it at GF time with his 'Vic v Qld' comments, and it didn't work then either.

What they are convieniently ommitting in their rants is that the concession is ALREADY there and they have not opposed it before. It is the AMMENDMENT to the concession they are cracking the ****s over, and they aren't even giving the public the full story. Ie: Collo agreed to it before leaving the AFL to go to Colonial, no one made a peep. Demetriou then agreed again at the beginning of last year, no one made a peep. Come time to sign the agreement and the Lions have made a GF, all hell breaks loose.

It is a change from a 50k zone to the AFLQ competition zone. This comp has only 9 teams in it after counting the Lions reserves. 35 - 40% of these teams lie outside the current 50k zone. The standard of football of this competition is very low when compared competitions in AFL dominated states.

My gawd the way they are carrying on you would think that the Lions are being given a free hand to pick the best yound player from anywhere in the world!

[Stocka]

Hmmm. Never mind the fact, of course, that the Super(fluous) 4 have often all been involved in their own drafting scandals. Buying players, convincing players to threaten not play for other clubs, exceeding the salary cap, are only a few examples.

Likewise, what about the concessions that Richmond recieved in the early 90's, which allowed them poach players from other clubs - namely Fitzroy.

They should be called the 'Vultures', not Tigers.

If McGuire wants to quit over something like this, it tends to suggest his heart isn't in the right place at Collingwood. I mean, surely if he believes that his club is being significantly disadvantaged, being the passionate club-person that he is, he would stick to his guns.

Likewise, McMahon and Elliott's threats of legal action, just show those two up for being the ****ers that they are. I mean, the amount of times they've crossed the boundaries is countless, yet, when someone else does something they don't like,

To the Super(fluous) 4, I say:

Well, I sorry fellows, but after you all took advantage of Fitzroy, vulturing us to the "good" of your own clubs, I personally could not give a rat's tossbag any longer, if you receive the same treatment in return. In fact, the irony is quite laughable, considering the club that came about as a result of the Fitzroy merger, is the one dishing it out.

If I had a choice, I'd rather see clubs like North Melbourne and the Western Bulldogs going around in the competition. Clubs with real character.

Likewise, considering these are the teams most likely to be affected over time, by the concessions given to the Lions, it's strange that the Super(fluous) 4 seem to make so much more noise than they do. Don't tell me, of course the Super(fluous) 4 are making so much noise - doing it for the benefit of "all Victorian clubs". :rolleyes: Yeah right-o, "all Victorian clubs, minus the ones that we don't want in 5 years time" is more like it.

[Roylion]

Originally posted by Danni


What they are convieniently ommitting in their rants is that the concession is ALREADY there and they have not opposed it before. It is the AMMENDMENT to the concession they are cracking the ****s over, and they aren't even giving the public the full story. Ie: Collo agreed to it before leaving the AFL to go to Colonial, no one made a peep. Demetriou then agreed again at the beginning of last year, no one made a peep. Come time to sign the agreement and the Lions have made a GF, all hell breaks loose.

It is a change from a 50k zone to the AFLQ competition zone. This comp has only 9 teams in it after counting the Lions reserves. 35 - 40% of these teams lie outside the current 50k zone. The standard of football of this competition is very low when compared competitions in AFL dominated states.


I agree with all that you say Danni. However I believe the big sticking point for the Voctorian clubs is the proposal that the Lions and Swans be allowed to name ANOTHER Queensland player after the first round of the National Draft....as well as naming the best Queensland player BEFORE the draft.

[OldLion]

Isn't this to do with the Reiwolt (?) chap ? He's been talked up as 'the next best thing' - but I didn't see Eddie going off when he dumped Mal to get Jarrad. I must say - at the time I thought that was a great move ( as much as I like Jarrad ) after seeing Mal in the flesh and thinking 'bloody hell - he's HUGE!' .. and then finding out he was THRILLED to go to Qld.. after all the strife about homesick players.

As Stocka said - after the gross self-interest displayed about the carving up of Fitzroy and the agony that produced, I wouldn't trust ANY AFL person to think outside the dots. Essendon are still spewing about JB getting to the Lions thru' the father/son rule.

The line now is that, if the Lions were a Melbourne based club, the hype around the premiership and the winning streak would have overwhelmed the players so it's a HUGE advantage being away !!!!!

And just imagine if Brad Boyd had stood up - he'd definately be in the team as a tall midfield/defender - maybe up forward as he was a gun. Then the 'advantage' of the merger would have been moaned about.

[mustapha]

I think that there is nothing wrong with the concession that Brisbane and Sydney get. It is a national game and we should be trying to encourage young players to play AFL. To encourage young players to play the sport they should be given the best opportiny to play for the most popular club in their state. One of the great things about the Brisbane side is that a lot of the players grew up in QLD.
On the other hand I don't understand why Sydney and Brisbane have a larger salary club. Clubs in traditional AFL states can develop a good young list. When that list becomes successful they will have to get rid of a player or two as they won't fit in the cap e.g. Damian Hardwick. This difference would be the difference between keeping Hardwick and letting him go. Cost of living would have an impact in Sydney but I am not sure about much difference in Brisbane (correct me if I am wrong).
I think the salary cap should be even between all teams. What do you Lions fans think?

[BrainOfMorbius]

In Brisbane the extra salary cap has nothing to do with cost of living; it's entirely down to the "homesickness factor". Brisbane Bears/Lions have lost innumerable handy players to this. The extra cash is supposed to provide extra incentive to the players to stay.

When the team's enjoying such success, it's a little easier to keep players as they like to be part of a winning team. But you can't just turn a salary cap on and off like a tap.

[mustapha]

So if Brisbane is successful for the next five years there will be no need to offload players to fit under the cap whereas another team with the same success will most likely have to.
Couldn't the 'homesickness factor' also be negated by the 'lifestyle factor' where some players in Melb might want to travel to NSW or QLD to escape the limelight and pressure in VIC e.g. Tony Lockett ?

[BrisGirl]

Originally posted by mustapha
I think that there is nothing wrong with the concession that Brisbane and Sydney get. It is a national game and we should be trying to encourage young players to play AFL. To encourage young players to play the sport they should be given the best opportiny to play for the most popular club in their state. One of the great things about the Brisbane side is that a lot of the players grew up in QLD.
On the other hand I don't understand why Sydney and Brisbane have a larger salary club. Clubs in traditional AFL states can develop a good young list. When that list becomes successful they will have to get rid of a player or two as they won't fit in the cap e.g. Damian Hardwick. This difference would be the difference between keeping Hardwick and letting him go. Cost of living would have an impact in Sydney but I am not sure about much difference in Brisbane (correct me if I am wrong).
I think the salary cap should be even between all teams. What do you Lions fans think?


Queensland is a Rugby League and Rugby Union State, and Brisbane do not have a strong Aussie Rules base to choose from, so to encourage young men to play Aussie Rules instead of Rugby League or Union (of which there is a strong following of both codes in this State) they tell the young men who are considering which Code they might take up, that if they choose to play Australian Rules you might be able to stay in Queensland, your home State.

Now the talent in Queensland is just starting to take off because of this incentive, the chance to play for the Brisbane Lions.

But, there is not enough Queensland boys who play Aussie Rules so we had to go to the draft, like everyone else.

Now, the reason for the the cap for Brisbane and Sydney is that, what would happen is that we would recruit a boy from, lets say, Melbourne. I say Melbourne because that was were most of the young talent came from, on the simple grounds, that is the home of Aussie Rules .

We would train him and nurture him and bring him through the ranks and put him in the Seniors and he starts to become a really good footballer and a Club from Victoria would see the star qualities he is displaying and promptly dangle huge amounts of money at him and because he is a Victorian boy, he would leave because we couldn't match the money and he wanted to go home.

This is that home-sickness thing that is being discussed at the moment. It was a big thing with Brisbane.

We would train them and Victoria would steal them.

Buckley and O'Bree are examples. (I don't care for these footballers, I am just using them as examples of how big money took our young talent away).

It wasn't just the money, it was the lure of going back to Victoria, the home of Football.

And there, is the reason for the Cap.

To keep our boys, that we recruited and trained, in this State.

To stop other Clubs taking them with the lure of going home.

The cap is not used to 'buy' talent, the cap is used to keep what is rightfully ours and to keep them here, in Queensland, which is a long way from Victoria.

[mustapha]

Why should Brisbane get a better chance of keeping their developed talent than Collingwood, Adelaide or West Coast? These clubs can also develop young players into good players over many years only to have them disappear to another club because they can not be fitted in under the cap. I don't think that the 'homesickness factor' is exlusive to Brisbane and Sydney. Richmond would have to worry about Ottens wanting to return to SA and there are many other cases of interstate players at every club.

[Danni]

It isn't a case of getting a better chance than other clubs to keep them. It is a case of getting a better chance for Brisbane to keep them, and bringing Brisbane's chance up into line with that of other clubs.

Homesickness is a major factor, but also is the sporting environment up here, the climate, the career/study opportunities in a sports environment, and the total lack of AFL football culture that can be easily found in WA, SA and VIC.

For a 17yo moving to Brisbane it is a culture shock at the least.

I'm not sure but I think there were pretty stringent rules on the 'top' up to the salary cap that included specifications for what circumstances it could be used in etc, and it is not available for example to pay M Voss more money if he had had a better offer from another club and was bargaining. There was also the use of money to relocate players families/girlfriends etc to Brisbane to ease the homesickness, help them be housed and find work.

All in all the amount of money Brisbane spends on player welfare, especially that of young players, the 'extra' salary cap allowance doesn't cover it.

[BrainOfMorbius]

mustapha, you've also got to remember that Victorian, SA and WA clubs have a SIGNIFICANTLY higher number of local-bred players on their list. The chances of homesickness affecting a player with Brisbane or Sydney is accordingly SIGNIFICANTLY higher.

[mustapha]

Since the days of the Bears I think the number of local players in the Brisbane side has increased. This would be partly due to more exposure of the game in Brisbane with the increased success. The concession will also help to enable young QLD players play for the Lions. In 5-7 years time Brisbane would probably have as many locals playing as any other side in the AFL (how many would be locals now?). As the number of locals in the side increases the salary cap top up should then decrease. At the moment if there is still a huge imbalance between locals and non-locals it does seem fair that more money should be allocated to relocate families etc.

Also regarding the culture change with a Vic player going to Brisbane I think many Vic players would welcome the change (with immediate families of course). Alistair Lynch could probably still walk around in Brisbane and not get recognised. Any player in the top ten at a Vic club will get recognised and will have to talk football,sign autographs etc. whenever walking around in public. Many would love to to walk around without being bugged. Should there be an allowance for a players lack of privacy in Melb i.e should Collingwood get to pay it's players more becuase there is more media and public scrutiny on them?;)
I think many of the Brisbane and Sydney players have the advantage of having less constant attention being focused on them.
There are so many different factors that could influence what the salary cap should be for different clubs. When will QLD and NSW be no longer considered developing states and when will concessions be reduced? It is a very hard line to draw.

[Danni]

Mustapha, personally I think we are going to be minimum 5 years, max 10 years off being labelled as a 'developing market'.

Why?

Well from my point of view youth development (auskick, auskick rules, and youth footy) will be the reason. AT the moment the AFL are putting money into junior development, tho most of it goes to Auskick and a little to auskick rules (up to/including under 11's). These kids are 7 to 12 years off being able to nominate for the draft etc. Getting them into the sport, and keeping them in the sport is the key. The success of the Lions in 2001 has caused a marked rise in the number of junior football registrations. I know even at my junior club, which is a small one, we have over 100 kids in auskick and 3 under 8's teams for example. That has been unheard of before. Continued success of the Lions will only see htese numbers grow and more and more Qld kids will stay with Aussierules.

D.

[Frosty_1]

Excellent Posts from BrisGirl and Danni!!!!!!!!!

ONE MORE MAJOR POINT THAT NEITHER MENTIONED THOUGH:

As Danni said, the AFL are putting heaps into developing the game at junior levels in the state.

Even public schools such as John Paul College have very strong junior AFL teams now due to the hard work of the AFL, the Brisbane Lions players and committed parents.
Taking over from the normally Rugby League and Union stongholds.
Throughout the week, every week, Lions players are on call to do football clinics at primary and secondary schools.

Victorian clubs put very little time into development of the game in Victorian schools like this these days. Probably because they believe they don't have to in a state that is dominated by AFL football.

But in this state, IT IS VITAL.

There is NO doubt in my mind, that is why Leigh is so adamant about the concessions.
People like Sheedy & Malthouse change with the wind, depending on their own best interests; as has been proven by statements they have made in the past.

Even in "Talking Football" last night, the feeling was Brisbane have won a flag now, so no more concessions.
Brisbane is so good now, there is no game that is coming up now that is exciting!!!
No more blockbusters!!!
Spoiling the competition!!!

IT IS INTERESTING THAT THIS SAME MAN NEVER SAID THE SAME ABOUT ESSENDON WHEN THEY WERE DOMINATING THE GAME OVER THE LAST DECADE.

[FattyLumpkin]

As well as the salary concessions to overcome "homesickness", I'm of the opinion that Brisbane players in tthe past had very limited opportunities to supplement their income via endorsements or media opportunities.

I don't think I've ever seen a Lion (or Bear) player flogging something in an ad on tv. All these gigs went to the Bozo's , sorry Bronco's. Likewise, until very recently we saw very little of the Lions/Bears in the media (probably commenced with Matthews).

Net result of all this is that non- Qld AFL players in Brisbane not only had to contend with the homesickness factor, but they also had very limited (ie. no) opportunities to supplement their income via endorsements/media committments. The salary concession evens that score a tad.

Fatty

ps. As for Eddie - his next call of a Brisbane game will be interesting!

[Mr Ripper]

Excellent points, Fatty.

[OldLion]

It's all getting unreal ... was that a plea for compensation for 'lack of privacy' ????

I remember when Fitzroy had the zone in the Western District and it was always great to see some new country kids come down for a crack - Mark Dwyer being the ultimate. I wouldn't mind zoning coming back - Carlton had Bendigo and the Dogs had Gippsland etc but the WHOLE point of this 'national' game concept is not an altruistic evangelical devotion to spreading the footy gospel - it's to maximise TV rights as in SHOW ME THE MONEY. Australia-wide coverage meant advertising rights etc etc - the whole 80's scramble for club revenue .. even private ownership !!

And I guess it's paid off - if you can believe the $$ that the 9/10/Foxtel consortium have paid. Will this money FINALLY resolve the issues ? Well .. another day dawns and what do we find ? National coverage is limited, country footy suffers, big grounds are closed and small bespoke grounds are built ( now that was a great idea .. NOT ! ).

We all love footy and, as a result, we are all playthings of the AFL/top-end-of-town/parochial interests. I find it refreshing to attend some local games - the Reds for example or some junior footy - just to see kids running like crazy after the leather. My youngest played his first ( under 9 ) game last Sunday and , for the first half, got lost. But after a few deep breaths and some concerned coaching, took a few marks and ended up in the club room singing the song ! As I said to him ' This is the first day of the rest of your life' .. he's bought in big time to the team and the game and the whole culture.

Lets go see some footy and stop all this ridiculous sophistry - everyone's starting to sound like Peter Reith .. and that can't be good for the game.

[BrisGirl]

Food for thought:-

We would not even be having this discussion if we didn't win the Flag.

If Brisbane stayed down in the ladder and only experienced mild success, this discussion wouldn't even be brought up.

The reason Brisbane are playing well and enjoying on-field success, is because they play as a Team. They want to win.

It is a proven fact, money and how much the players are paid, do not win you a Flag.

You only have to look at North Melbourne's past success.

It comes down to the men on the field and how much they want the Premiership.

[Danni]

And more food for thought:

The Salary Cap allowance is an agreement for the Club to be able to pay more out.

It is NOT a grant of the many $$$$ from the AFL, and the Club has to have the money there if they are to pay it out, as Graeme Downie said on 'White Line Fever' last night.

So yeah, by all means, let's allow ALL the clubs to spend 500K extra on player payments. Let's watch the struggling clubs lose more players as their contract renewals come up and they can't meet the inflated prices the players demand. Let's watch the stronger clubs get stronger because they have the cash to meet the new player payments. And let's all just sit back and watch the poorer clubs become poorer and poorer, no decent players left, no onfield success, no members cause they aren't performing.............yeah ok let's make this an even playing field. :rolleyes:

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Stocka
If McGuire wants to quit over something like this, it tends to suggest his heart isn't in the right place at Collingwood. I mean, surely if he believes that his club is being significantly disadvantaged, being the passionate club-person that he is, he would stick to his guns.


Agree 100%. Deep down, it sounds like Eddie has had enough of Collingwood doesn't it.

Can't blame him really....

[BrisGirl]

Originally posted by Briedis


Agree 100%. Deep down, it sounds like Eddie has had enough of Collingwood doesn't it.

Can't blame him really....

There is something is what you say Briedis.......

Collingwood are experiencing off-field success, with regards to making a profit, but the Team are not showing on-field success.

Again, being a strong and financial Club, doesn't assure you of a Flag. It comes down to the men on the field.

[InTheBack!]

A high profile example of a Queenslander who went to another sport over footy is Darren Lockyer, the Broncos & Australian Rugby League player.

Apparently he was a good Aussie Rules player & but decided to stick with League when he left school, worse luck!

There will always be multi talented sportspeople who choose one sport over another, but in QLD is more than likely to be footy on the losing end.

The concessions are all about shifting the balance as much as possible in footys favour, increasing the size of the herd, so to speak & capturing the best.

The present Lions success is not yet replicated in the wider Queensland picture. Something the Eddies of this word do know about but choose to ignore in their tedious attempts at world domination.

[BrisGirl]

Originally posted by InTheBack!
A high profile example of a Queenslander who went to another sport over footy is Darren Lockyer, the Broncos & Australian Rugby League player.

Apparently he was a good Aussie Rules player & but decided to stick with League when he left school, worse luck!

There will always be multi talented sportspeople who choose one sport over another, but in QLD is more than likely to be footy on the losing end.

The concessions are all about shifting the balance as much as possible in footys favour, increasing the size of the herd, so to speak & capturing the best.

The present Lions success is not yet replicated in the wider Queensland picture. Something the Eddies of this word do know about but choose to ignore in their tedious attempts at world domination.

Another one:- Gordon Tallis - Captain of the Broncos.

Played A Grade Australian Rules when he was a teenager.

To top it off, his father holds a record for a Townsville Australian Rules Club for playing over 300 games.