View Full Version : Best player never to play test cricket?
Brett Li
16 Apr 2002, 17:03
Please no one say Richard Chee Quee, I just couldn't take any more........
Santos L Helper
16 Apr 2002, 20:09
Tim Nielsen or Brad Wigney
clucas91
16 Apr 2002, 20:54
Does playing one test count? I would say Stuart Law, but he played one test got a decent 54 n.o but was dropped for the next test.
kretchy
16 Apr 2002, 21:24
Originally posted by BT
Jaimie Siddons?
I'd probably agree with that he only got to be 12th man for one test didn't he?
SeinDude
16 Apr 2002, 21:36
I immediately thought of South African players between the era of 1971 to 1991, Clive Rice would be the one that sticks out in my mind but there's probably more.
To think even someone like Barry Richards who only played 4 tests and averaged in the 60's is such a shame as he was a great player who's test career was tragically cut short due to political reasons in his country at the time.
From an Australian point of view, I would also be finding it hard to go past Jaimie Siddons.
Cheers!!
SeinDude
NYPomme
16 Apr 2002, 22:32
Yarpies
Jimmy Cook
Vincent Van der Bijl
Windies
Silvester Clarke
Franklyn Stephenson
(don't think they ever did)
And for the archivists amongst you.....J.B. King of the Philadelphians
NYPomme
16 Apr 2002, 22:39
To add to SeinDude's comments on careers cut short.
1. Michael Proctor
2. Lawrence Rowe
3. Graeme Pollock
4. Archie Jackson
Think Peter Kirsten's best years were as a non-capped test player too.
Well my first reaction was to say me.:D
If you'd ever seen me in the back yard flipping out the leggies, tossing up a few offies & then getting the ball up to chin height with some pure pace.Fielding like a puma & heroically seeing out all the bowlers with some Boycottesque defencive play then you'd have to agree & at the age of 30 I still hold out some hope that my day will come.
Of the other contenders I'd say Mike Procter would have been a champion in Test cricket (he didn't play nay Tests did he?) & would have been the fifth all rounder of the 70s along with Botham,Hadlee,Dev & Imran.
Then Rice would have taken over form him although I'm not sure how devasting Rice's bowling would have been in Test cricket especially in India & Pakistan.
Sylvester Clarke playeed a few Tests didn't he?
As for Franklyn Stephenson he had the best slower ball of any bowler I've ever seen.He taught it to Chris Cairns who does it pretty well but every year in county cricket Stephenson would clean bowl a whole heap of batsman who were ducking trying to avoid a beamer that became a gentle yorker.
Ken McEwan was awesome for Essex but it was pointed out to me on here that he was a lot happier on English wickets than the ones back in South Africa-so I don't know about him.
Kretchy you are right Siddons did play as 12th man in Pakistan in the early 90s, and never played a test for Australia believe it or not. Not bad for a guy who retired with a first class average in the mid 40s.
Other mentions in recent years to
Darren Berry - excellent gloveman
Jamie Cox - class bastsman
Mark DeVenito - see cox
London Dave
17 Apr 2002, 03:20
J.B. King...very good one NY Pommie....
Siddons, yup, only 12th man for 1 test.
Stuart Law got only one test I think, as did Tom Moody?
A few guys got a gig during WSC who were decent players but wouldnt have played otherwise..thinking of Alan Hurst, pretty reasonable bowler, although there were a few who got games then who must make Jamie Siddons pretty unlucky!
Robert Rose was a very good player, who its said, was destined to be picked for an Aussie tour of NZ before he was tragically injured in a car accident.
Mike Haysman never played tests I think, was a good player for Sth Aussie before he went to YarpieLand.
I remember Garth Le Roux was a pretty good quick for a season or so of WSC.
Maybe a few more wll come to me in time.....
Dipper ..
Proctor played 7 tests,
Ricw 3 ODI's (at 42 yo)
sylvester clarke played a few tests, I recall him tossing a brick into the crowd in India or Pak.
Franklyn stephenson never did, but he played 1st calss for 6 sides on 4 continents!
not sure about Rowe NY Pommie, whether his career was cut short by eye injurt or not playing enough at sabina Park! He had a 10 yr career, with a period at WSC, so not realy short.
kretchy
17 Apr 2002, 09:29
Originally posted by Slax
Jamie Cox - class bastsman
He is another one who has been very unlucky he has just been around in the wrong era where Australian cricket has been so strong.
Brett Li
17 Apr 2002, 17:52
" sylvester clarke played a few tests, I recall him tossing a brick into the crowd in India or Pak.".
That wasn't a brick, that was his chewing gum. Clarke was an absolute quality bowler, big, fast and agressive, who would have walked into any side today, let alone any side of that generation bar the Windies. Should have played in more tests for the Windies even in that team.
Roger Ramjet
17 Apr 2002, 17:56
Craig Howard
Brett Li
17 Apr 2002, 21:27
did he go to school with you?
Booze Hound
18 Apr 2002, 00:54
Garth Le Roux would have been a pretty good international fast bowler and a Rhodesian (as they were then) called Brian Davidson couldn't half bat. Two more taken out by the Ja Ja ban.
I was a member at Surrey during Clarke's days. He would stand idly at gully most of the day when not bowling. With the ball inhis hand he would often trundle at not much above medium pace but if someone upset him, or a player he rated was batting, or if a West Indian came in the wind would blow hot.
Clarke against Viv was a sight to behold. Tended to be very spectacular and not long lasting.
My favourite memory of how 'respected' Silvers was came in a Yorkshire v Surrey game at the Oval. I used to sit near the away team dressing room and knew the assistant, Ted. The Yorkshire openers, Geoffrey Boycott and Martyn Moxon walked in the dressing room and asked Ted which of Surrey's overseas players would be in the team that day (they could only play one) Clarke or Tony Gray (a decent bowler but not in the same class). Ted said he's find out and came back with the answer "Clarke".
Boycott and Moxon went for a gentle jog round the outfield and, on retrn, 'discovered' they had both pulled hamstrings and couldn't possibly play. Yorkshire's batting that day was opened by bowler Arnie Sidebottom.
The following day Brian Close, who was Yorkshire Chairman at the time, travelled down, asked Ted to leave the room, locked the door and gave a pretty fearsome speech to the two players. Probably still preferable to facing a wound up Clarke though.
On the subject of players whose Test careers were curtailed by illness/injury. One of the finest might have been K.S.Duleepsihnji
Seeing as NYPomme threw in John Barton King of Philly I shall pose one for the historians out there (and no looking at that book NY:)):
Which Test cricketer did play for Philadelphia in that era?
NYPomme
18 Apr 2002, 02:27
Great story, BoozeHound. Closey could have let them into his secret when dealing with the short-pitched stuff!
:eek:
Must say I was sorry to hear news of Silvers' premature death. Great loss.
Re:
Booze Hound
'Seeing as NYPomme threw in John Barton King of Philly I shall pose one for the historians out there (and no looking at that book NY):
Which Test cricketer did play for Philadelphia in that era?'
'Ranji' Hordern. NSW and Australia.
No need for the book, BH. Basic Stuff ;)
To carry on our 'theme'. Where - and between which teams - was the first international cricket match? Don't worry about the date (there - made it easy for you)
Anyone in favour of a 'cricket trivia' thread? Any other anoraks out there?
NYPomme
18 Apr 2002, 03:42
Since quite a few of the names that are appearing are Yarpies of the 70's - I'm stuck by the thought of how good their side would have been.
1. Barry Richards
2. Jimmy Cook
3. Graeme Pollock
4. Peter Kirsten
5. Eddie Barlow
6. Clive Rice
7. Michael Proctor
8. Not sure who the keeper would have been?
9. John Triacos
10. Garth Le Roux
11. Vincent Van der Bijl
Pretty useful I'm sure everyone will agree. Imagine what a series between this team and the Windies of the mid-late 70's would look like?
On the point of Franklyn Stephenson - imagine how useful the Windies would have been if they had had a genuine all-rounder during the early eighties (as if they they needed one).
Brett Li
18 Apr 2002, 04:14
Good point, stick in McKwan, and I think the keeper would have been Jennings? Steve Jeffries wasn't a bad little player either. Thank God they were banned.
Booze Hound
18 Apr 2002, 18:39
Got to give NYPomme an easy one to get of the mark. Saw his brother on the train this morn and he got it too. Failed to get H.V.Hordern's profession though.
I would have nailed his question, but he knows that.
60 second hen is correct about the 1789 game. Revolution stopped play.
Re the runner question. Ranatunga would either need a runner or a golf buggy.
Two back at you (the first one NYPomme is not allowed to answer)
1. Who is the only man to play in the cricket and soccer World Cup?
2. Who was the first Test cricketer to go on and umpire a Test match?
Brett Li
18 Apr 2002, 21:10
Question 1. Viv Richards
Originally posted by London Dave
J.B. King...very good one NY Pommie....
sylvester clarke played a few tests, I recall him tossing a brick into the crowd in India or Pak.
Yeah I think he set off a riot that ended up with the stands being set on fire the game called or off or at least part of it suspended, the riot police called in & I'm not sure if a few people didn't die as well!
I think it was India but they started it by chucking stuff at him so fair enough.
Was the reason that he didn't have much of a Test career because he went on tour to south Africa or did he go because he wasn't getting picked.
Booze Hound,
Viv Richards played in the qualifying for the world cup for (I presume) Antigua I don't know if that counts or if someone actually made it to the finals(I doubt it).Beefy played in the FA cup for S c u n t h o r p e.
So your a surrey boy ay, so you'll remember when my boys Essex bowled you out for 14 once & I believe you only made that due a boundary from the aforementioned mr Clarke:D
kretchy
18 Apr 2002, 22:09
Originally posted by Booze Hound
2. Who was the first Test cricketer to go on and umpire a Test match?
Venkat from India is the only one i can think of.
Booze Hound
18 Apr 2002, 22:32
Dipper - as I recall Surrey went on to save that game. Much to the annoyance of Keith Fletcher :)
Q 1 - Viv is the answer. He played in the qualifying rounds of the 1974 soccer World Cup (I didn't say Finals, did I) for Antigua against Haiti. Good sports quiz question.
Q 2 - Not Venkat
Re the SA team of the late 70's:
My choice would be
Richards - enough to make a bowler feign injury
Wessels - young, hungry and a better run scorer than in his later career (Cook would have been too young)
Kirsten - Peter was a better bat than Gary. Very fine player indeed.
Pollock - obvious
Davidson - fine player. A player called Henry Fotheringham was meant to be high class at the time. Never saw him play though. And don't forget, a young Dave Houghton (fine Zimmie bat) would have been coming through.
Procter - bats above Rice, better batsman
Rice - all round solid performer. Key runs and stock seamer
WK - Day or Pfuhl were supposed to be the best in the land at that time. Too early for Jennings.
Le Roux - good quickie and dangerous late order hitter
Van Der Bijl - hardly an athlete but a damn fine bowler
Hobson - top notch leggie,played WSC. Traicos could come in on the right pitch
NYPomme
19 Apr 2002, 01:11
No.2 Hampshire?
Brett Li
19 Apr 2002, 02:15
Willey, defo did both. What era are we looking at?
London Dave
19 Apr 2002, 05:03
First Test Player to umpire a test...
WG Grace...refused to walk even after being bowled didnt he??
BoozeHound mentioned Brian Davidson, I recall he had a couple of seasons in Tassie and did OK.
Someone may have mentioned it, hordern was a dentist, wasn't he?
Unfortunately it is true.
He was bowled around his legs and refused to walk believing it came of the keeperes pads. he eventually left after some pursuading by the opposing captain and his batting partner.
Booze Hound
19 Apr 2002, 19:10
Nice work Chickenman.
Now who was the first Australian to do it?
Dave is right about Hordern being a dentist.
NYPomme
20 Apr 2002, 04:09
Originally posted by Booze Hound
.
Now who was the first Australian to do it?
Who cares!
'Those you can do - those you can't.....'
(BH spends his weekends 'standing' - and is the best illustration of this point )
:D
Few more for you: Cricketers & other sports (BH don't spoil it for the others if you know these - which I hope you do)
1. Which Australian test player was a state champion longjumper?
2. Which English test captain boxed at the Olympics?
3. Which test cricketer held the world long-jump record (easy-peasy)?
4. Dipper - Which Essex cricketer fenced at the Olympics?
5. Which test cricketer was an U-19 international 110m hurdler representing South Africa?
London Dave
20 Apr 2002, 21:45
the boxer, JWHT Douglas, captain in 20/21 I think. Beat Reg 'Snowy' Baker for boxing gold, in a fight refereed hy his own dad! (no fix there!).....Snowy Baker was arguably Australia's finest all round sportsman ever! A fascinating character.
JWHT Douglas was christened Johnny Wont Hit Today by the Sydney hill, i think, for his less than dynamic scoring rate.
the world long jump champ was CB Fry, arguably Englands greatest ever all round sportsman!
others...must have happened after 1920, thus i have no recollection of them!!
Originally posted by NYPomme
4. Dipper - Which Essex cricketer fenced at the Olympics?
Not at all sure on this one but something in the depths of my sunconscious is leading me towards former off spinner David Acfield.:confused:
Originally posted by NYPomme
5. Which test cricketer was an U-19 international 110m hurdler representing South Africa?
I don't claim to know this one at all but the guy I'm gonna plump for was apparently an incredible all round sportsman as a kid.He was a great fly half/5/8th at Union, had a few English football teams interested in him & was a pretty handy athlete as well.
So I'm sticking my neck out for Herschelle (sp?) Gibbs.
Brett Li
22 Apr 2002, 21:11
Robin Smith?
NYPomme
22 Apr 2002, 22:38
Robin Smith is the hurdler. Fencer IS Acfield.
CB Fry the world record-holder in the longjump. LD is correct about Douglas.
Just leaves the Aussie long jumper! Let me give you a clue.
Played before the war - and wasn't a bad bowler at all!
NYPomme
25 Apr 2002, 04:48
Noone has had a stab....well the answer to the state longjumper is.......
Bill 'Tiger' O'Reilly
clucas91
25 Apr 2002, 09:27
Originally posted by Brett Li
Robin Smith?
I think Robin Smith played test cricket, because I remember Merv Hughes or one of the other Australian fast bowlers hitting his hard in the neck or somewhere, and he batted on bravely to save the test.
Brett Li
25 Apr 2002, 21:04
clucas, that was in reference to the "quiz" some of the guys set.
Robin Smith was the answer to the question:
"What test player represented S.A at hurdling?"
Smith was indeed a test player and for a while a pretty good one, showing plenty of guts. Once teams worked out he was mentally weak against spin his performance at that level plummetted. My lasting memory of smith will be smashing Merv Hughes to Cuba in 1993 one-day series, can't remember the venue. It was just about the most destructive innings I have seen against quality bowling. Warne was bowling little rollers, and little were we to know how devastating he would be in that series.
clucas91
25 Apr 2002, 21:09
Originally posted by Brett Li
clucas, that was in reference to the "quiz" some of the guys set.
WHOOPS, shows that you should sometimes read more. :eek: :eek:
Originally posted by Brett Li
Smith was indeed a test player and for a while a pretty good one, showing plenty of guts. Once teams worked out he was mentally weak against spin his performance at that level plummetted. My lasting memory of smith will be smashing Merv Hughes to Cuba in 1993 one-day series, can't remember the venue. It was just about the most destructive innings I have seen against quality bowling. Warne was bowling little rollers, and little were we to know how devastating he would be in that series.
Hit there nail on the head there mate, he was great player of pace (similar to Lamby that we talked about before) but he was a shocker against spin.I'm not sure if it was a mental thing I think he just played it wrong, he pushed forward real hard at the ball with bat & pad together & the close fielders had a 'field' day.
His battles with Merv were great in that series, Merv gave him a mouthful the whole time & everyone thought there must be bad feeling between them but apparently they became really good mates out of the whole thing.Some of the shots in that innings were full on, he had this way of playing the ball square on the offside off the front foot but rather than play if like a regulation drive it was like a cut with a horizontal bat played to a ball that was a half volley they used to hit the boundary boards with a huge thud.
Brett Li
26 Apr 2002, 02:09
I remember him being clocked on the side of his helmet by walsh in the West Indies in really dark conditions. I have this mental picture of "Judgy" surpised by the cricket ball to head collision, rolling his gum around in his mouth, muttering a few words to lamby and strolling down to garden the "strip" whilst grinning at Walsh.
Dipper, I know the shot you are talking about, the little body duck and drive at the same time. Also love his gelled looked when he first burst on the scene. christ I miss personalities.......
NYPomme
26 Apr 2002, 04:08
Imagine the chat between overs.
Lamb: 'Hey - Judgey - 'e corght you wit' thet wun!' (followed by Lamby's infectious smile)
The Judge: 'No problim - we'll be fane as long as they keep Horper off'
Meanwhile, 'brose takes of his nine sweaters and gets ready to deliver the quick stuff.....
By the way - is it truth or tale that Smithy got his nickname due to fact that his haircut resembled a beak's wig? I certainly hope it's true.
More of the same with quiz questions: Who was the Australian who played Test cricket for Australia and for England, but never played first-class cricket in Australia.
A hint: He also captained England at rugby.
Brett Li
28 Apr 2002, 18:31
A.E.Trott?
Not Trott, but very close to his era.
London Dave
28 Apr 2002, 21:53
Billy Midwinter....
Trott is still the only guy to hit a ball over the members pavilion at Lords....he is bried in Willesden Cemetery, if that interests any of those living in London. Had a rather sad life after cricket I think....
Absolutely spot on Chicken. Good get. Interestingly, the previously mentioned C.B. Fry, called 'Braveheart' Sammy Woods, "The greatest player of games in the world."
He was born in Bondi, where his father was the mayor. His father planted the pines on the foreshore. Sammy was sent to England to further his studies and was at Cambridge, when the 1884 Australian team called him up to fill in, because of injuries. He played in three tests of that series and was then selected to play in three tests in South Africa, for England, several years later. He was a bustling fast bowler and a ferocious hitter as a batsman. In most lists of Australian batsmen and bowlers his aggregate runs and wickets are surprisingly high. Of course he played for about twenty-five years for Somerset, which accounts for the number of runs and wickets he got.
An attacking player, his most famous quote was, "Draws are only good for swimming in."
Booze Hound
29 Apr 2002, 21:02
A.E.Trott was one of many cricketers to commit suicide.
Brett Li
29 Apr 2002, 21:03
fantastic question and great "additional" info on Mr Woods. Keep them coming
NYPomme
29 Apr 2002, 23:23
Originally posted by Booze Hound
A.E.Trott was one of many cricketers to commit suicide.
What an uplifting observation for a Monday morning, Hound.
Stoddart, Shrewsbury, Faulkner, spring to mind
Originally posted by NYPomme
Imagine the chat between overs.
The Judge: 'No problim - we'll be fane as long as they keep Horper off'
Hehe, Must be the only two blokes in world cricket who'd be happy to see Ambrose/Bishop/Walsh/Marshall etc come off & Roger Harper to enter the attack,lol!
Oh yeah Smith's nickname was due to his barnet resembling a judges wig.:D
On the subject of cricketer's topping themselves isn't it frustrating that the one's who'd really benefit from it don't have the good grace to do the decent thing?A certain Welsh off 'spinner', a streaky gutless Anglo-aussie left arm 'fast' bowler a flash & unbelievably innaccurate wrist spinner from Surrey to name but 3 who would have served the England side a lot better if they'd have observed the Japanese model of behaviour when bringing shame upon your families name.:D
Brett Li
30 Apr 2002, 17:25
A couple in more recent times; Bairstow and Kelleher. Very sad indeed.
Didn't Ken MacKay kill himself?
London Dave
1 May 2002, 03:33
You may be confusing him with Jim Burke, who shot himself a while back....someone wrote a book about cricketers who killed themselves, came out a few years back, can't recall the title or who wrote it though. There was quite a number though.
Ken Mackay died 20 odd years ago, don't think it was suicide, may have been a car accident or the big C.
Booze Hound
3 May 2002, 22:24
The reckon a few people decided to cash in their chips when ken MacKay was batting but I don't think he did himself in.
The book London Dave refers to was written by David Frith. I think it's called "By Their Own Hand" (or similar). I believe he's just brought out an updated version.
Another recent one was Mark Saxelby, the former Nottighamshire player. Soon after realising his first class career was over he drank weedkiller.
Which cannot be a pleasant way to go.
London Dave
4 May 2002, 03:32
thanks Boozy, think that the book made the point that statistically, cricketers were more likely to top themselves than other sportsmen...
i remember the author being interviewed on the bbc making that point
Originally posted by Booze Hound
I reckon a few people decided to cash in their chips when ken MacKay was batting but I don't think he did himself in.
v.poor, 'Hound!:rolleyes:
Nightmare
14 May 2002, 18:39
Such a boring question - surely it is Ceri Williams. Who is he? you might ask...a superb off-spinner with control and guile - never understood why he hasn't been picked
NYPomme
15 May 2002, 03:25
Originally posted by Nightmare
Such a boring question - surely it is Ceri Williams. Who is he? you might ask...a superb off-spinner with control and guile - never understood why he hasn't been picked
Don't be a muppet! Ceri Williams turned the ball ONCE in his whole llife - and that one hit a stone.
Anyway - I thought he gave the game up - and spent most of the time making friends with his local publican?
Brett Li
15 May 2002, 17:16
Ceri Williams?. I think she has played in Ladies International a few years ago (?)
Nightmare
15 May 2002, 19:45
could the pair of you stop displaying your ignorance please and just admit it. He should have been playing test cricket for years - if only he hadn't shagged Peter May's daughter then he would surely have played.
There is another guy called Chris Quiddington - he looks a bit like David Ward (ex-Surrey) - if he didn't go round dressing rooms stealing jock-straps, or so the papers alledged, then he might have played.
Can anyone here remeber David Hourn, my uncle.
He played for about 7 or 8 years for NSW during the 1970's and was a left arm chinamen bowler.
From all the reports i've been told about him, was that he was a sensational bowler, and should've played test cricket. Unfortunately i've never had the chance to seen him bowl at the top level, and because his knees went in the early part of the 90's, i never got a chance to see him bowl at all :(:(
Although, i do know that he still has the fourth best figures taken at the SCG in a first class. 9/80-odd against Victoria.
I've been told he was the best spinner in Australia in his time, and the most glowing report was when i was introduced to Allan Border about 2 years ago, the first thing he said to me was 'your uncle should've played 50 tests' - which is a 100% true story.
Anyone tell me what he was like?? if you can remember him??
Dogwatcher
13 Aug 2002, 12:09
On to the original question of the thread:
How about Sam Trimble and Peter Philpott, both were very unlucky not to play test cricket. Particularly Sam, the father of Glen.
McAlmanac
13 Aug 2002, 12:22
Originally posted by Dogwatcher
On to the original question of the thread:
How about Sam Trimble and Peter Philpott, both were very unlucky not to play test cricket. Particularly Sam, the father of Glen.
Good call on Sam.
Ken Cunningham :D
Dogwatcher
14 Aug 2002, 12:34
KG, yes unfortunately probably was unlucky to miss out.
Like Philpott, he also was named in a touring second team but struggled.
Dogwatcher
15 Aug 2002, 09:54
Add Mystery Spinner Jack Iverson to the suicide watch list.
What a sad life he had.
It also a misconception that Chuck Fleetwood Smith committed suicide, that's not the case. We lived as a bum on the streets for a while though.
McAlmanac
15 Aug 2002, 10:26
Originally posted by hourn
Can anyone here remeber David Hourn, my uncle.
He played for about 7 or 8 years for NSW during the 1970's and was a left arm chinamen bowler.
From all the reports i've been told about him, was that he was a sensational bowler, and should've played test cricket. Unfortunately i've never had the chance to seen him bowl at the top level, and because his knees went in the early part of the 90's, i never got a chance to see him bowl at all :(:(
Although, i do know that he still has the fourth best figures taken at the SCG in a first class. 9/80-odd against Victoria.
I've been told he was the best spinner in Australia in his time, and the most glowing report was when i was introduced to Allan Border about 2 years ago, the first thing he said to me was 'your uncle should've played 50 tests' - which is a 100% true story.
Anyone tell me what he was like?? if you can remember him??
Was a very good Shield player. Had an ugly action, IIRC. Definite bunny No.11 batsman.
Originally posted by McAlmanac
Was a very good Shield player. Had an ugly action, IIRC. Definite bunny No.11 batsman.
yer i've been told that action was rather strange. And i'm very aware of his batting and fielding (in)ability - give him sh1t over it all the time :D:D:D:D