View Full Version : Lions vs Richmond - Post-game discussion
I tipped Richmond tonight because I thought they were in better form, but forget the dancing with your sister analogy, I feel so disappointed.
Are the boys practicing kicking for goal at training? Another game where goal kicking has killed us.
You can't teach goal kicking, i really believe that, it is vital to use the kiss method, KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. Keep the ball still, move in a straight line, pick your target behind the goal, get your momentum up, kick through the ball, the last thing you should see is the ball hitting your boot. I am not paul hudson by the way. ha ha
The telli is out of my team for next week, just think he (like sherman) could benefit from a week or 2 in the seconds. Doesn't seem to have any fluency to his game and really needs to work on his kicking. He is definately an up and under kick of the footy.
There was a great shot of Browny's last kick for goal. He was running in a line about 20 metres wider to the point post. How are you meant to kick straight doing that?
Once again Lappin proves he is an absolute gun. In the last quarter his attack on the ball was amazing and his will to win was evident. He just needed a couple more mates to play with his steel.
Jed Adcock take a bow, you are now officially my favourite player, this bloke is unbelievable, i have never seen so many lunge tackles by any player. He is the ultimate competitor with skills and decision making to burn. He is a future captain, we must never let him go.
Sidenote- Schmidt and Hooper were both good tonight, showed promising signs.
You can't, it annoys me when people on this forum try to make goal kicking so bloody technical, like he fades the ball and looking at biomechanics. Oh there is one thing lacking as well, confidence, when you are confident you are relaxed. Can't kick goals when you are tense and worried about missing.
Lions_Master
2 Jun 2007, 23:04
Drummond was the Stat Machine for Super Coach - 221 points!!! I wish he was my captain!
Selwood most definately deserves to be mentioned for the final tackle on Tivendale, save the game.
The Flying Belgian
2 Jun 2007, 23:13
All post-game musing and rants in here thanks.
We are a wasteful team at the moment, i do believe we are a couple of really classy players short of becoming a successful team over the next 2-3 years, i think from now on we must recruit the best mid fielders we can get our hands on.
Once again Lappin proves he is an absolute gun. In the last quarter his attack on the ball was amazing and his will to win was evident. He just needed a couple more mates to play with his steel.
Jed Adcock take a bow, you are now officially my favourite player, this bloke is unbelievable, i have never seen so many lunge tackles by any player. He is the ultimate competitor with skills and decision making to burn. He is a future captain, we must never let him go.
Sidenote- Schmidt and Hooper were both good tonight, showed promising signs.
Niges goal was a ripper, Ithought that tackle by Sellwood in the dying minutes was brilliant. Merritt did a pretty good job again. Johnno going down early was a big blow and we missed Luke. The endeavour was there ,just the execution was bad sometimes. Good to see Hooper back, love his flair.Jed is not only a brilliant player he is also tough and brave,he is having a brilliant season.Would rather be in our position than poor old Tigers.I also thought Brennan wasn't too bad.
**** i'm glad Jed Adcock is a Lion. :thumbsu:
It's almost enough to make a man turn.
And why don't we look for Joel Patfull more often? He marks everything.
Not at all happy with the result.
OK...it was 10.13 apiece which says it's a draw.
But without looking at the stats sheet, weren't at least 3 or 4 of their behinds "rushed"?
Whereas, I can hardly remember any of our points being from anything other than straight out misses.
We have a serious conversion problem and to be perfectly blunt, one of the biggest offenders is Browny.
We must address this wasteful kicking at goal as a priority...at the moment it's killing us.
**** i'm glad Jed Adcock is a Lion. :thumbsu:
It's almost enough to make a man turn.
Was thinking the same thing!
If Adcock was playing for a Vic club he would be getting so much media attention.
The Flying Belgian
2 Jun 2007, 23:26
**** i'm glad Jed Adcock is a Lion. :thumbsu:
It's almost enough to make a man turn.
I think we've all got a bit of room for some Jed-love.
Was thinking the same thing!
If Adcock was playing for a Vic club he would be getting so much media attention.
Absolute gun player.
Looked like he was finished for the night at one stage thereafter that sickening knees to the back area.
Played on courageously and still managed to be a major factor for the rest of the game.
It amuses me how the Vic commentators like to tell us that he's actually a good player (as though) they have just discovered him:rolleyes:
Lions_Master
2 Jun 2007, 23:40
The wasteful kicking at goal is the main issue. Who are the assistant coaches who works on this area?
The wasteful kicking at goal is the main issue. Who are the assistant coaches who works on this area?
Hudson would surely.
Grimreepah
2 Jun 2007, 23:43
The commentators were saying the goal kicking has been bad for a lot of teams. Have the rule changes designed to promote a running game made the players more buggered when they are taking shots?
Lions_Master
2 Jun 2007, 23:43
Hudson would surely.
I like to know what he's teaching them. It looks like nothing.
Lions_Master
2 Jun 2007, 23:44
The commentators were saying the goal kicking has been bad for a lot of teams. Have the rule changes designed to promote a running game made the players more buggered when they are taking shots?
I agree that goal kicking has been bad for many teams. But these teams can improve. The "Hands in the back" rule is the only problem I have with the AFL.
lion_gooner
2 Jun 2007, 23:52
i was at the game tonight it was AWESOME :D:D:D:D
so glad richmond didnt win :D:D:D
would have been HELL had they won
I agree that goal kicking has been bad for many teams. But these teams can improve. The "Hands in the back" rule is the only problem I have with the AFL.
The free against Sherman and the resultant gift goal to the Tigers was an absolute travesty.
The umpire called it "hands in the back" and also told Sherman he had hold of the jumper, when clearly neither was the case.
The over application of this silly rule is ruining the game.
In a game where turnovers were the norm, Selwood and Rischatelli were dreadful. It's a skill thing - hitting teammates on the chest is pretty basic stuff. We looked like kicking away in the third but just couldn't capitalise. The first quarter was ... indescribable. At least it was a marked improvement over last year .. and Big Red did OK. We just ran out of gas and , apart from Nige, there was very little gut busting running going on. Black was well tagged and the other onballers were average. Hadley improved but Harding ..
The Tigers were just as bad but really we have a better team and should have won. And playing Brennan behind the ball is his ONLY position - forget up forward etc.
Plusses were Drummond - excellent kickouts over 60m - and Hooper really showed what Ash M. should do. Shame he couldn't nail the winning goal in the last. Mitch on ball wasn't bad and Patfull .. missed an absolute sitter which could really have sunk the Tiges.
Even with JB, we have bottom half written all over us. Can we get back Gram ?
i was at the game tonight it was AWESOME :D:D:D:D
so glad richmond didnt win :D:D:D
would have been HELL had they won
What's so funny?
Drummond had his best game of the season and big Roger did a fair job on Richo. The introduction of Hooper gave our forward line a bit of unpredictability and added some defensive pressure when the tigers tried to clear the ball. With Brown, Patfull and Clark all able to mark inside the forward 50 we are improving, now all they have to do is kick straight! Lappin was back to his best, somehow manages to run out the game even though he has had only a couple of games back after such a long break. Charmo is a beauty, there are no easy kicks for the opposition when he is around. We will need to continue to improve if we are to be competetive next week but the signs are there.
LuckyLuke
2 Jun 2007, 23:58
I think we've all got a bit of room for some Jed-love.
http://www.itdeluxe.com.au/pic/loveadcock.gif
:p
Drummond had his best game of the season and big Roger did a fair job on Richo. The introduction of Hooper gave our forward line a bit of unpredictability and added some defensive pressure when the tigers tried to clear the ball. With Brown, Patfull and Clark all able to mark inside the forward 50 we are improving, now all they have to do is kick straight! Lappin was back to his best, somehow manages to run out the game even though he has had only a couple of games back after such a long break. Charmo is a beauty, there are no easy kicks for the opposition when he is around. We will need to continue to improve if we are to be competetive next week but the signs are there.
Good post:thumbsu:
Lions_Master
3 Jun 2007, 00:09
Everyone's going on about Adcock but I thought Drummond was BOG.
Grimreepah
3 Jun 2007, 00:14
Richmond are playing the youth card, but interestingly enough the Lions fielded a younger team today.
Richmond are playing the youth card, but interestingly enough the Lions fielded a younger team today.
Not to worry Grim. While 'youth' can certainly be true, most of the time it's used as an excuse for poor performances. You can play the youth card and shift the blame, or cop it on the chin when you're not good enough. I would prefer a coach that takes responsibility rather than making excuses.
We are an AFL team so we're on even footing with every other team every time we step out onto the field. I know we are young and inexperienced, but you're not going to be gifted goals or possessions just for being young and inexperienced.
Sherminator.
3 Jun 2007, 00:42
Hmm, I don't know what to think, to be honest, I wasn't in a sociable mood after the game and came straight home. I hate draws, moreso than a loss, it leaves you feeling...hollow and crushed.
CJ is out again, I think McGrath will come in for him.
POSITIVES-
Drummond- 30 disposals (25 kicks, 5 handballs), in which 25 of his 25 kicks were effective! Took 13 marks and rebounded from defence 10 times.
Adcock- Tackled hard and restricted his opponents freedom, played a great game and kicked a goal.
Clark- Is improving, despiting missing an easy shot, and a gettable shot. Was a forced and had 2 opponents at one stage, I had the pleasure to watch Browny and him only metres from my seat.
Brown- Finding form and only a matter of time before he'll be kicking bags of 4 and 5, hopefully. 17 disposals, 9 marks, 2.1 showed that. Set up Lappin's awesome goal (which I saw sail over my head).
Lappin- 2.0, 28 disposals and one of the few Lions who continued to run hard in the dying stages, I am hoping he'll play for a few more seasons, definately looks like he can.
Notting- 27 disposals, 13 marks, was a great effort and he was probaly the second most dominant Lion midfielder.
Patfull- Strong hands, kicked 3.1 and was the best forward. I think I have been proven wrong.
Charman- 25 hit outs (Yeah, I got this guess right!), 15 disposals and was one of Brisbanes best. I suspect if we had won, he'd be getting alot of media attention.
NEUTRAL-
Hooper- His pressure is good, I told Danielcanberra that I think he needs some more muscle, as he got pushed off the ball a bit in the centre, went to ground to easily.
Schmidt- Showed some class, but didn't use the classy kicking skills I was hoping for, good signs. Took them on here and there, I like that. Will play next week.
NEGATIVES-
Harding- Did nothing! Nothing! 3 kicks, pathetic.
Johnson- Injured, saw him limping 2nd quarter but tried to play on, didnt succeed.
Rischitelli- Must be carrying an injury, he is too slow and hasn't done enough, IMO.
Copeland- Shouldn't been playing as forward, did nothing for the Lions up there.
Selwood- Bad turn overs, but honourable mention of saving us from a loss in the dying seconds with that tackle on Tivendale.
Am I going to get shredded again for suggesting Bushy is dropped this week?
I know he is a popular figure and a great club man, but he has been average this past month.
Out: Harding, Copeland, Johnson (if injured)
In: Power, McGrath, best performed from the twos
TheBrownDog
3 Jun 2007, 00:56
Geez Hooper has all the attributes to be a star.
TheBrownDog
3 Jun 2007, 00:58
Drummond got 227 Champion data points!
Anyone have him in SuperCoach? :eek:
Drummond got 227 Champion data points!
Anyone have him in SuperCoach? :eek:
He was my captain BrownDog.
You are in a whole world of pain.
TheBrownDog
3 Jun 2007, 01:02
He was my captain BrownDog.
You are in a whole world of pain.
BULL**** he was.
EDIT: Just checked, you're full of it. :D
I've already scored big on Pavlich, Adcock, Fletcher and Kirk btw. You may be up against it.
Sherminator.
3 Jun 2007, 01:05
I agree with the Hooper statement, I can see a great team with Clark, Hooper, Wood in their respective positions.
And Wazz, I am totally behind you in saying Bushy should be dropped, he isn't doing enough to justify a spot in the team when more youngsters are trying to earn a spot in the side.
TheBrownDog
3 Jun 2007, 01:07
We need Bushy to play on Aker. We can discuss his place in the team after round 11. :P
Chin up guys, Johnno's early injury put us behind the pump.
We missed Power as well.
We'll learn alot from that game.
As Weevil said tonight... "its not about the tonights game, its about where we will be in 2 years".
roostersgal4eva
3 Jun 2007, 01:07
The free against Sherman and the resultant gift goal to the Tigers was an absolute travesty.
The umpire called it "hands in the back" and also told Sherman he had hold of the jumper, when clearly neither was the case.
The over application of this silly rule is ruining the game.
Justin is held all game by a opponent who never had eyes for the ball in any contest and gets pinged for that!!!
That was so bad that the umpire must be on the take!!!!!
TheBrownDog
3 Jun 2007, 01:09
How many of our players need to be decapitated before we get a free kick for a high tackle?
Happened all night long.
Sherminator.
3 Jun 2007, 01:12
As Weevil said tonight... "its not about the tonights game, its about where we will be in 2 years".
Best. Quote. Tonight.
Seriously, in two years time, Wood, Leuenberger, Clark, Hooper, Proud, Adock, Rischa and the 'S Quartet' (Sherman, Stiller, Schmidt, Selwood) will all be very good players, and will all play pivotal roles in Brisbane's chances of playing in finals football.
This year has been and will be a steep learning curve for the Lions, but the'll come out for the better, and with more salary cap space next year, I think we'll retain all our most important youngsters. :thumbsu:
king and i
3 Jun 2007, 01:12
The commentators were saying the goal kicking has been bad for a lot of teams. Have the rule changes designed to promote a running game made the players more buggered when they are taking shots?
Listened to MMM, thought they said both teams had shots in the dying minutes that failed to go the distance, 35 or 40 metres? If that's the case they must be buggered big time.
Grimreepah
3 Jun 2007, 01:14
Geez Hooper has all the attributes to be a star.
A bit like Harding at the start of the year, he didn't necessarily get heaps of it, but gee he was dangerous whenever he did. Most of our best pieces of play involved him in some way and his delivery into the forward line was terrific.
TheBrownDog
3 Jun 2007, 01:15
A bit like Harding at the start of the year, he didn't necessarily get heaps of it, but gee he was dangerous whenever he did. Most of our best pieces of play involved him in some way and his delivery into the forward line was terrific.
Yup, I made the Harding comparison to the missus on the drive home from the Den.
Another game like that and Hooper will take Harding's spot.
danielcanberra
3 Jun 2007, 01:16
I have a different perspective. Spoke to a few of the boys after the game.
I told Patfull he was awesome and I think he needed to be told that, despite the result.
Sherminator.
3 Jun 2007, 01:17
A bit like Harding at the start of the year, he didn't necessarily get heaps of it, but gee he was dangerous whenever he did. Most of our best pieces of play involved him in some way and his delivery into the forward line was terrific.
Playing differently as to last season, and I am enjoying it. He isn't afraid of throwing himself in the congestion either, I supposed that has come with a second year in the system and the fact he has added 4 kilos.
konstas_87
3 Jun 2007, 01:23
I tipped Richmond tonight because I thought they were in better form, but forget the dancing with your sister analogy, I feel so disappointed.
Are the boys practicing kicking for goal at training? Another game where goal kicking has killed us.
it was kicking in play too mate. i tipped us but pretty biasedly id suggest.
awesome to have drummond back in the side now along with adcock, both really great players.
lappin stood out in such a poor quality game, and jamie dominated the middle i thought. Browny would probably have 10 brownlow votes now if he kicked straight, hes giving lots off but kicking is really starting to hinder us, especially in critical parts of the match.
cant c brennan going anywhere still i hope roe gets his act together so brennan can spend the rest of the year in the 2s. harding suffered a bit from being in and out of the team, didnt seem to have much rhythm tonight.
patfull and clark both complimented browny i thought, clarky needs to fix something though, that kicking style doesnt work..
blacky was well held, merrett was sloppy but on a good player i guess, notting got alot of the footy but shanked 75% of his touches.
disappointing we lost 2 points then, not gained 2.
blackclaw
3 Jun 2007, 01:24
our rebounding is shithouse. accuracy needs to be worked on, somehow. whether it can be taught or not, surely there is no harm in practicing!
it feels like the team has no confidence in the forward line. need to kick in long to the blokes there, they are improving! give them a chance!
hooper has great potential, and i really feel in terms of importance, that JED is probably third - behind Brown and Merret - all three are irreplaceable.
not a great game to watch but it is not a loss, gear up for next week!
konstas_87
3 Jun 2007, 01:24
I have a different perspective. Spoke to a few of the boys after the game.
I told Patfull he was awesome and I think he needed to be told that, despite the result.
how do u get into the rooms every week, who are u hooked up with?
Loyal Lion
3 Jun 2007, 01:28
Must admit I was a bit surprised that Selwood came back into the side so quick. I said in a previous thread a few weeks back, that I didn't think he should be an automatic selection. I think he is a bit overated by our supporters.
Even in the game against Essendon, he did get a lot of possessions, but gives it back to the opposition too easily.
He got dragged tonight after a couple of clangers.
He tends to panic a bit in heavy traffic.
Was impressed with Hooper's use of the ball tonight.
TheBrownDog
3 Jun 2007, 01:29
Can a mod merge this with the Richmond game thread?
That word has been used many times over, but I think it sums up the situation best - hollow. Neither side will be happy, and both will be wondering what might have been. Still, points is better than no points, and that may come in handy should we be good enough to be a finals chance, given we don't have a great percentage - but I'm definitely getting ahead of myself there.
Now I know Quigs didn't get the chance to see the game tonight so won't be able to do a match report. I'm definitely no Quigley, and my attention drifted for periods when I went searching for food, but I'll do what I can.
First the positives. I thought Drummond played a great game. Was great coming out of our back half, and showed real class with his disposal by foot whether long or short, and yet he was also very accountable on his man. Between him and Adcock, I feel our defence has a bit more stability and cool thinking in there. Which brings me to Adcock - I just love the way he goes about his footy. Week afer week he is hard, skilful and smart about what he does. Has continually been in our best.
The rest of our defence wasn't too bad. I thought Merrett was ok as he made Richo earn his touches. It was also one of Brennan's 'average' games - not average as in bad, but average as he made one or two mistakes, but also did a few nice things, and did work to present himself as an option. I need to say that I don't like Sherman as a small defender though - he's not able to use any of his tools, and we lose his run as well. Cheynee Stiller was told to work on his defensive game, and he's found a niche for himself at halfback where he has been good both offensively and defensively. I don't see why that can't be the case for Justin, give him a role to settle into instead of getting him to play forward one week and back the next.
Through the midfield, I thought for the first time in ages we won clearances regularly, apart from the last quarter. The likes of Hadley, Black (though he was down in total possessions) fed out the ball on numerous occasions, and Notting, Lappin and Stiller got on to the end of a few. Lappin also showed what an ageless champion he is - even disregarding that miraculous goal, he ran hard all night, and was very poised in dancing around defenders and running through the corridor.
The ruck was an area we were expected to dominate, and Jamie didn't disappoint. From winning the tap from the first 3-4 bounces, I knew we'd be ok for the game. He got quite a few taps to advantage too which was good, although when he failed to win the hit out it seemed that the ball would be cleared out much more quickly by Richmond than we would. We're not holding enough tackles (although Rischitelli made a few solid ones), and are mucking around too much before trying to clear the congestion. Charmo also gave great presence around the ground, and provided a target for a few kick ins and in the corridor. One of our better players.
Up forward at least we had some structure. Brown, Clark and Patfull really does give you something to work with, and although a few times we still kicked long to outnumbered contests, it was much improved. This was best shown by the space that Browny had to run into. This gives me confidence that as long our midfield can feed these guys enough, we should be competitive in most games.
The issue of goal kicking has come up again for the nth time this year, I don't know if there's any more that can be added. It seems that with Brown and Clark, they can be good or very bad, while Patfull's kicking method doesn't change a lot, whether it's a goal or not. Just look at Mitch's 3 shots at goal tonight - the last one he slot from a tight angle was evidence of a good kicking action. He should be told to stick to that one, and to use that one every time, especially when he takes his first nervous shot at goal in a game. A solid effort by Brown, and Patfull is proving too agile and strong overhead on occasios. He'll never be a 20-25 possession a game KPP/utility, but he can damage the opposition if he takes his opportunities. Along with his versatility to play defense, he's established himself as an important player this year, and there'll be a few others players I'd drop before considering Joel.
I paid more attention to Rhan, since this was his first game for the year. I was impressed. I must say, I thought he'd play more as a forward pocket, but his role was a good one, starting at about half forward and running towards goal. This allowed him to deliver the ball (with some style too I might add) to a leading forward, but also be in position to be front and centre to pick up the crumbs. He didn't get a big possession tally, but he made them count. Almost kicked a goal that would've sealed it for us.
As for the debutant Schmidt, well, a bit of a mixed bag. He looked nervous early, and wasn't really given the chance to get easy touches. He was involved in some contests, and I thought he did ok in them. Kicking wasn't the best, but I'm sure that's just to do with playing his first game. Not sure whether he'll get a game next week - it may depend on who fails to come up from tonight's game and who may be dropped. The Western Bulldogs are a running side, so you'd think we'll be packing in a few runners in the team.
Now the negatives. Obviously losing Johnno early was a blow, as I believe this week he would've played an important role in defence. Colm didn't get a lot of it, and missed an easy shot (although he was hardly alone there). Copeland was also rarely spotted and I wouldn't consider playing anywhere outside defense except for tagging assignments in the midfield (eg Buckley) or forward (eg Heath Shaw). He just looks so much classier coming out of a back pocket.
Scott Harding was the biggest disappointment for me. Earlier in the week I had called for his inclusion for Fixter, and I was hoping he'd be able to put his pace and burst to advantage. He let us down not only by failing to win enough ball, but also coughed it up when there's a chance to be had. That dropped chest mark at the top of the goalsquare wasn't pretty, as was another handball receive he fumbled when he overran it, resulting in turnover and a Richmond entry into attack. He's frustrating for me because you can see the raw ingredients to be a quality player, but he's not putting it together yet.
As a team, again I thought there were good bits and not so good bits. We were generally tough in contests for the 50/50 ball, but too many times we'd let the opposition clear the ball easily, not put enough pressure on the ball carrier and made enough simple mistakes to last us a few games. Right now our skill levels and decision making are nowhere good enough right across the board for us to be carry out gameplans precisely. While for some players these come naturally, for most it's to do with the amount of footy you've played. I'd like to see us play primarily in a style that doesn't rely on those aspects heavily, but to use run and pressure - these are much easier once a player learns how. The way we're travelling we'll be competitive for many games (probably not against top sides) but ultimately will come up just short.
For next week's game against the Bulldogs, changes to be made will depend on injuries. We really need Luke to come up. If Johnno's injured his foot again he'd be doubtful you'd think. Some folks are speculating whether Rischitelli's carrying an injury - either way I think it's time for him to have a rest. Harding's form probably warrants him to have a spell in the reserves too, but I'm not sure if we have enough runners that we can leave him out. Marcus Allan to come in possibly. A second ruckman will also need to come in, which leaves us one runner less than tonight. We also don't know about McGrath's injury, so I won't comment just yet, expect to say that I think Rhan's probably deserved a second game based on tonight's performance.
In: Luke Power, Cameron Wood, Marcus Allan.
Out: Chris Johnson, Scott Harding, Michael Rischitelli.
These are just random thoughts after seeing the game. Too tired to preview it now, undoubtedly I'll find mistakes and inconsistencies in the light of day, but hey, it wouldn't be the first time I've made a mistake right? ;)
I was at the game behind the goal square, and im not sure if Browny is not carrying some type of injury. He is not moving a quick as he normaly does. Phenomenal goal from Lappin. Shortest final quarter I have seen for a looooong time, and the siren went just as we were kicking to goal (dam..)
Sherminator.
3 Jun 2007, 01:42
In: Luke Power, Cameron Wood, Marcus Allan.
Out: Chris Johnson, Scott Harding, Michael Rischitelli.
Yeah, great post BigCat, enjoyed reading it. I like the above list, but I'd replace Allan with Fixter, just because Fixter could play a reliable defensive/tagging game on West. :thumbsu:
king and i
3 Jun 2007, 01:47
it was kicking in play too mate. i tipped us but pretty biasedly id suggest.
awesome to have drummond back in the side now along with adcock, both really great players.
lappin stood out in such a poor quality game, and jamie dominated the middle i thought. Browny would probably have 10 brownlow votes now if he kicked straight, hes giving lots off but kicking is really starting to hinder us, especially in critical parts of the match.
cant c brennan going anywhere still i hope roe gets his act together so brennan can spend the rest of the year in the 2s. harding suffered a bit from being in and out of the team, didnt seem to have much rhythm tonight.
patfull and clark both complimented browny i thought, clarky needs to fix something though, that kicking style doesnt work..
blacky was well held, merrett was sloppy but on a good player i guess, notting got alot of the footy but shanked 75% of his touches.
disappointing we lost 2 points then, not gained 2.
Held Richo to a couple, like Rocca last week, Richo 5 goals last week, Rocca 5 this week. Loads of pressure. Reckon Merrett is well worth the slop!:thumbsu:
Yeah, great post BigCat, enjoyed reading it. I like the above list, but I'd replace Allan with Fixter, just because Fixter could play a reliable defensive/tagging game on West. :thumbsu:
Thanks for bringing him up, almost forgot about him. :eek:
Hmm yes Fixter could indeed come in.
And just had a thought too about McGrath recovering in time. I reckon bring him in and keep Hooper too, and play Rhan as a half forward. McGrath's form was good enough prior to the injury to warrant inclusion if fit, but Hooper provided us good speed to break the line and deliver. I think there's room for them both.
Sherminator.
3 Jun 2007, 02:01
Thanks for bringing him up, almost forgot about him. :eek:
Hmm yes Fixter could indeed come in.
And just had a thought too about McGrath recovering in time. I reckon bring him in and keep Hooper too, and play Rhan as a half forward. McGrath's form was good enough prior to the injury to warrant inclusion if fit, but Hooper provided us good speed to break the line and deliver. I think there's room for them both.
I have thought of this, too. You'd think Copeland out for McGrath's inclusion?
danielcanberra
3 Jun 2007, 02:04
how do u get into the rooms every week, who are u hooked up with?
I didn't say i was in the rooms. You ask too many questions.
lionbear
3 Jun 2007, 02:34
Just got home from the game. Was a pritty strange feeling when the final siren went wasn't sure what to do.
Thought there was some positives though, Lappins form was unbelievable, Hooper did some good things and chased hard all night will be a good forward pocket tackler for weeks to come, Browny's goal kicking form was excellent, Merrett I thought did a great job on Richardson, Patfull goals and being a target when Brown was getting double teamed and seing Mitchell Clark for the first time this year, he looks very promising.
Was a shame we couldn't get that one goal in the last quarter but those are the breaks I guess.
Sherrinator
3 Jun 2007, 10:36
Just got home from the game. Was a pritty strange feeling when the final siren went wasn't sure what to do.
Thought there was some positives though, Lappins form was unbelievable, Hooper did some good things and chased hard all night will be a good forward pocket tackler for weeks to come, Browny's goal kicking form was excellent, Merrett I thought did a great job on Richardson, Patfull goals and being a target when Brown was getting double teamed and seing Mitchell Clark for the first time this year, he looks very promising.
Was a shame we couldn't get that one goal in the last quarter but those are the breaks I guess.
2.1 :confused:
campbell
3 Jun 2007, 10:41
Justin is held all game by a opponent who never had eyes for the ball in any contest and gets pinged for that!!!
That was so bad that the umpire must be on the take!!!!!
* warning negative in this post *
it sure was a shocker wasn't it, makes you wonder.
Our decision making and turnovers and skills were poor last night, just shows umps have poor ones as well. Which ump was it?
I can't fathom how we could not beat a team who are so shocking, they have not won all year. We were up, we let them back in to win that match.
As for the goal kicking, gotta kick em, they are the only darn things that win you the match. A few of those costly misses would have won us that match.
In a nut shell, we sucked bigtime.
No excuses.
Niges goal was a beauty, how consistent is he.
Also why only the one ruck,Charmo could have done with a hand, we have 3 excellent rucks in the ressies.
Also does anyone know how many bench rotations we did in the last quarter? last week we got killed in that area again.
* warning negative in this post *
it sure was a shocker wasn't it, makes you wonder.
agreed, it wasn't a pretty game but any game where you are in a position to win is not a shocker (by my reckoning our game vs Essendon was a shocker)
just out of curiosity, what does it 'makes you wonder'?
Our decision making and turnovers and skills were poor last night, just shows umps have poor ones as well. Which ump was it?
sure, there were some questionable decisions at key times but we could and should have won anyway
I can't fathom how we could not beat a team who are so shocking, they have not won all year. We were up, we let them back in to win that match.
it's easy - richmond have played well in maybe 6-7 of their games and pushed some good teams
we just did not convert goal chances into scoreboard pressure and could not ice the game
As for the goal kicking, gotta kick em, they are the only darn things that win you the match. A few of those costly misses would have won us that match.
100% correct
In a nut shell, we sucked bigtime.
that comment is fickle
No excuses.
nope, no excuses - it's all a valuable learning curve and our cubs need to soak it all up - the good and the bad games
Also why only the one ruck,Charmo could have done with a hand, we have 3 excellent rucks in the ressies.
and yet if we'd won we'd be saying it was a masterstroke - it surprised me but it was a worth a shot
Also does anyone know how many bench rotations we did in the last quarter? last week we got killed in that area again.
how does a team get killed in that area? what do you mean?
peace
Patfull was dangerous all night, disappointing that his last miss is what everybody is going to remember.
The Tigers really needed a experienced close checking defender to take him.....Darren Gaspar anyone?
campbell
3 Jun 2007, 11:09
agreed, it wasn't a pretty game but any game where you are in a position to win is not a shocker (by my reckoning our game vs Essendon was a shocker)
just out of curiosity, what does it 'makes you wonder'?
sure, there were some questionable decisions at key times but we could and should have won anyway
it's easy - richmond have played well in maybe 6-7 of their games and pushed some good teams
we just did not convert goal chances into scoreboard pressure and could not ice the game
100% correct
that comment is fickle
nope, no excuses - it's all a valuable learning curve and our cubs need to soak it all up - the good and the bad games
and yet if we'd won we'd be saying it was a masterstroke - it surprised me but it was a worth a shot
how does a team get killed in that area? what do you mean?
peace
just out of curiosity, what does it 'makes you wonder'? That was about what roosters said, it makes you wonder.Shocking decision.
how does a team get killed in that area? what do you mean?
extra rotations in a match means players with more legs, means more run at the end when we may need it. Last week, Collingwood used the bench a lot more effectively than us, especially in the last quarter, and it showed when it mattered. I was wondering if that was the case last night, thats all.
campbell
3 Jun 2007, 11:10
Patfull was dangerous all night, disappointing that his last miss is what everybody is going to remember.
The Tigers really needed a experienced close checking defender to take him.....Darren Gaspar anyone?
Yeah....
* warning negative in this post *
Mate, as long as you take the time to explain your point of view. I really don’t think anyone would have a problem with you having a look at the ‘glass half empty’ side of things. :)
It was a disappointing game. I agree with most of what you have said. But I do think most of that stuff fixes itself when a team is playing with confidence.
I’ve said it before, but when Hawthorne played us they could not do anything right, they were shocking. But then they started winning a few games and suddenly their skills, disposals, decision making and run improved out of site.
And I don’t think it is just as simple as ‘who ever makes the most interchanges runs the game out better’. If it was everyone would be doing it. I don’t think we had a problem running out the games when we were playing well.
campbell
3 Jun 2007, 11:45
Mate, as long as you take the time to explain your point of view. I really don’t think anyone would have a problem with you having a look at the ‘glass half empty’ side of things. :)
It was a disappointing game. I agree with most of what you have said. But I do think most of that stuff fixes itself when a team is playing with confidence.
I’ve said it before, but when Hawthorne played us they could not do anything right, they were shocking. But then they started winning a few games and suddenly their skills, disposals, decision making and run improved out of site.
And I don’t think it is just as simple as ‘who ever makes the most interchanges runs the game out better’. If it was everyone would be doing it. I don’t think we had a problem running out the games when we were playing well.
So how can they get their confidence back again?Why and where has it gone. Are all the players afflicted or is it just some of them. Poor Mitch looked forelorn when he had to take a shot at goal after missing 2.
We have lost winable games this year. the roos at the Coast being just one, last night, we should of won.
Last night in the last quarter, we did not kick a goal. Did we think we had won it already, as we were playing the tiges.Did we not respect them as a team? What happened, we are the ones who should have wanted to win that match, we are the ones who need to stem the flow of lost games.
notting18
3 Jun 2007, 11:52
extra rotations in a match means players with more legs, means more run at the end when we may need it. Last week, Collingwood used the bench a lot more effectively than us, especially in the last quarter, and it showed when it mattered. I was wondering if that was the case last night, thats all.
Just thought i'd point out that last week we had Adcock and McGrath injured for most of the game (thus we had to loose the rotations, etc). Last night, we had CJ injured from very early - i don't think we were 'run over' like we had been in the past
lionbear
3 Jun 2007, 11:53
2.1 :confused:
He looked alot more confident lining up for goal then what he has the last few weeks:thumbsu: 2 goals when you are being double teamed the way he was I thought was a good effort.
campbell
3 Jun 2007, 11:59
Just thought i'd point out that last week we had Adcock and McGrath injured for most of the game (thus we had to loose the rotations, etc). Last night, we had CJ injured from very early - i don't think we were 'run over' like we had been in the past
On CJ, if he was injured in the early part of 1st quarter with the same injury, why did we risk him at all?
Did Richmond have any injured players on the bench? What about the Pies last week?
It is the one area of our game we do seem to be struggling with, being run over in the last quarter due to match rotations and not enough legs.. I think it was made an issue after round 1 last year against the Cats, and it seems to be mentioned a lot since then.maybe the stats boffins are just more effective in analysing things nowadays.
notting18
3 Jun 2007, 12:07
On CJ, if he was injured in the early part of 1st quarter with the same injury, why did we risk him at all?
Did Richmond have any injured players on the bench? What about the Pies last week?
It is the one area of our game we do seem to be struggling with, being run over in the last quarter due to match rotations and not enough legs.. I think it was made an issue after round 1 last year against the Cats, and it seems to be mentioned a lot since then.maybe the stats boffins are just more effective in analysing things nowadays.
I agree with why CJ was risked if he wasn't completely fit why risk him, but it was a situation with McGrath out we were somewhat desperate for a replacement. Also it was an "impact" injury, so would've been a similar risk of re-injury as Richo last week (ie. very unlucky to take another hit, etc).
However, Richmond DID NOT have any injured players, Collingwood DID NOT have any injured players. Especially when you also include the fact we had a 'resting ruckman' at points against the pies, probably not the time to be making this point.
Also, when you have a lot of kids in your team -which we do - it is not as easy to rotate through people as much as it is harder for the kids to find their way back into the game.
So how can they get their confidence back again?Why and where has it gone. Are all the players afflicted or is it just some of them. Poor Mitch looked forelorn when he had to take a shot at goal after missing 2.
We have lost winable games this year. the roos at the Coast being just one, last night, we should of won.
Last night in the last quarter, we did not kick a goal. Did we think we had won it already, as we were playing the tiges.Did we not respect them as a team? What happened, we are the ones who should have wanted to win that match, we are the ones who need to stem the flow of lost games.Wow, if I could answer those sorts of questions I reckon I’d be coaching AFL teams rather than sitting on a forum talking about them.
Why aren’t the Demons, Saints, Freo and the Bulldogs playing to their potential? How come the Kangaroos, Power, Bombers, Hawks and Magpies are performing so far ahead of expiations?
I just don’t see easy answers to any of these questions.
There are 15 other clubs out there trying their hardest to beat us. Right now I think we are experiencing some short term pain for some long term gain.
What do you think about the kids we have coming on?
notting18
3 Jun 2007, 12:16
I am seeing a lot of similarities with us in the late 90's/early 00's. We had the same side then as in our premiership years - pretty much - and inaccuracy/poor disposal was an issue then. Give it a few years and with experience/confidence that all seemed to be all better...
crispy creme
3 Jun 2007, 12:21
I was at the game behind the goal square, and im not sure if Browny is not carrying some type of injury. He is not moving a quick as he normaly does. (dam..)
I think you'll find that Browny has been 'crook' for a couple of weeks. I've heard he has a pretty nasty chest infection.
It was evident at the game last night that we ran out of legs. In the end IMO we did well to escape with 2 points. We were limited in our use of the bench due to the injury of CJ. Logic says that you cannot rotate 21 players as often and as effectively as 22. This really caught up with us late in the game.
Live at the game, our run and movement was quite good during the 2nd and 3rd quarters however we ground to a stop towards the end. This had nothing to do with our perceived unwillingness to use the bench as often as other teams.
In relation to Johnno, he looked pretty sore in the rooms after the game. The word is that it is his achilles giving him problems so he may be out for a few weeks.
campbell
3 Jun 2007, 12:22
Wow, if I could answer those sorts of questions I reckon I’d be coaching AFL teams rather than sitting on a forum talking about them.
Why aren’t the Demons, Saints, Freo and the Bulldogs playing to their potential? How come the Kangaroos, Power, Bombers, Hawks and Magpies are performing so far ahead of expiations?
I just don’t see easy answers to any of these questions.
There are 15 other clubs out there trying their hardest to beat us. Right now I think we are experiencing some short term pain for some long term gain.
What do you think about the kids we have coming on?
I could only listen again last night. These darn night duty shifts and afternoons when footy are on.Only heard bits and pieces as well, no birthing mums wanted to listen to footy, go figure that one hey.I have just watched a replay .
I love Hooper, as he has natural talent to burn, but tries his hardest, with 1% and chasing etc.That drive is what I love to see. I would love to see him in the team and gather his legs in senior footy.He is a crumber and then some,at the drop of the ball, he has a natural footy brain.You can't teach that to any player.
Love Mitch's natural ability as well, a confidence player like Braddy is, if they get that 1st kick they are away for the game.
Early days on big red, as FB is the hardest spot to learn let alone with his history of the game. I love him at FF myself.
Wood is excellent and has improved around the ground. Confidence the key with him also.I would have loved to see him in last night, not sure what else he has to do to get a gig.
Begs is great, runs and runs, but is still learning.
Schmidt its too early to say.
Drummo we have missed.
Selwood is a tagger, an excellent tagger,
Hope the off field stuff with Possum isn't affecting his game.I nearly choked on my dinner last night at work, when I opened a womens mag and there was the whole sorry saga of his break up in it. eeek.
from Womans Day website.
Scandal! 'My AFL ex ran off with Jodie Henry'
Only months after giving birth to a baby son, 24-year-old Nicole Byrne was left devastated when the man who vowed to marry her and have more children, walked out on her. To make matters worse, Tim Notting, from the Brisbane Lions, has already moved on with Australian swimmer Jodie Henry.
http://womansday.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=269282
A wee bit of a distraction.
campbell
3 Jun 2007, 12:24
I think you'll find that Browny has been 'crook' for a couple of weeks. I've heard he has a pretty nasty chest infection.
It was evident at the game last night that we ran out of legs. In the end IMO we did well to escape with 2 points. We were limited in our use of the bench due to the injury of CJ. Logic says that you cannot rotate 21 players as often and as effectively as 22. This really caught up with us late in the game.
Live at the game, our run and movement was quite good during the 2nd and 3rd quarters however we ground to a stop towards the end. This had nothing to do with our perceived unwillingness to use the bench as often as other teams.
In relation to Johnno, he looked pretty sore in the rooms after the game. The word is that it is his achilles giving him problems so he may be out for a few weeks.
I hope its not his achillies, they are a bugger to fix.Like the narvicular bone injuries.
maybe we should have rested Browny if he has a really bad chest infection, poor thing.
maroon and blue
3 Jun 2007, 12:36
I thought Mitch Clark kicked well when he was on the run. It only seems to be set shots where he is having trouble.
notting18
3 Jun 2007, 12:36
Without knowing anything about the Notting off-field situation besides what has been "sold to the media"(it has not been reported yet), i don't think it has really affect Poss seeing as he is having his best season in years.
On Hooper i loved the way he looked last night but there were times when you could tell his fitness was off. He would always chase well, but sometimes he didn't chase in situations your Davey, etc would...good signs for the future!
I hope its not his achillies, they are a bugger to fix.Like the narvicular bone injuries.
maybe we should have rested Browny if he has a really bad chest infection, poor thing.
How is an Achilles injury like a navicular injury? :confused:
I could only listen again last night. These darn night duty shifts and afternoons when footy are on.Only heard bits and pieces as well, no birthing mums wanted to listen to footy, go figure that one hey.I have just watched a replay .
I love Hooper, as he has natural talent to burn, but tries his hardest, with 1% and chasing etc.That drive is what I love to see. I would love to see him in the team and gather his legs in senior footy.He is a crumber and then some,at the drop of the ball, he has a natural footy brain.You can't teach that to any player.
Wish we could cross him Jared.
Drummo we have missed. Isn’t it great to see drummo getting back to his best. It’s been said a million times but how good are his kick ins.
Towards the end of the game they had that high camera shot. Our players covered everywhere, drummo shapes to kick out to a pack of players to the right. At the last second straightens his kick and perfectly spots a player in the clear almost in the center square.
Just does that sort of thing time and time again. He is a genius that boy.
campbell
3 Jun 2007, 12:43
How is an Achilles injury like a navicular injury? :confused:
Did I say they were the same. I said they are a both a bugger to fix.
Hirdy had all types of problems with his nav injuries, and achillies are shockingly complicated at times.
Towards the end of the game they had that high camera shot. Our players covered everywhere, drummo shapes to kick out to a pack of players to the right. At the last second straightens his kick and perfectly spots a player in the clear almost in the center square.
Just does that sort of thing time and time again. He is a genius that boy.
That kick went 70 metres and hit Charman between his pecs.
campbell
3 Jun 2007, 12:45
Wish we could cross him Jared.
Isn’t it great to see drummo getting back to his best. It’s been said a million times but how good are his kick ins.
Towards the end of the game they had that high camera shot. Our players covered everywhere, drummo shapes to kick out to a pack of players to the right. At the last second straightens his kick and perfectly spots a player in the clear almost in the center square.
Just does that sort of thing time and time again. He is a genius that boy.
Yep Drummo was sorely missed. His kick ins and his natural footy smarts have been a welcome inclusion for us.
lionbear
3 Jun 2007, 12:57
Yep Drummo was sorely missed. His kick ins and his natural footy smarts have been a welcome inclusion for us.
The drive he gives us off half back as well is really important thought we where bringing the ball through the midle alot better last night with Drummonds effectiveness.
TheBrownDog
3 Jun 2007, 12:57
I don't think Browny's carrying anything serious.
I reckon he's getting better by the week.
I am seeing a lot of similarities with us in the late 90's/early 00's. We had the same side then as in our premiership years - pretty much - and inaccuracy/poor disposal was an issue then. Give it a few years and with experience/confidence that all seemed to be all better...Yep, and even though we had spent years and years building that team, it all finally clicked in the blink of an eye in the ‘if it bleeds we can kill it’ game.
What is it that can instantly galvanise a team like that? All teams try their hardest, how can the same group of players suddenly lift their performance to a whole different level?
Like I said, so much of it has to do with that magic ‘confidence’ thing...but you can’t just make it happen, can’t just tell players to be confident and they magically will be. Players have to believe in themselves and believe in their team-mates. Takes years to get a whole group of players (physically and mentally) into that space.
notting18
3 Jun 2007, 13:24
Yep, and even though we had spent years and years building that team, it all finally clicked in the blink of an eye in the ‘if it bleeds we can kill it’ game.
What is it that can instantly galvanise a team like that? All teams try their hardest, how can the same group of players suddenly lift their performance to a whole different level?
Like said, so much of it has to do with that magic ‘confidence’ thing...but you can’t just make it happen, can’t just tell players to be confident and they magically will be. Players have to believe in themselves and believe in their team-mates. Takes years to get a whole group of players (physically and mentally) into that space.
All true, but i like to take a different approach to the fact that nothing specific can change that side of the team. Instead of going well if we can't know what will do it, we are in trouble. I go with the POV that if we don't know what will be the catalyst it may just be around the corner:)...optimistic i know, but it won me 20 buks off a mate last week with 20 mins left in Essendon/Richmond game (Essendon were going to start kicking properly!)
black_hart
3 Jun 2007, 13:40
Yep, and even though we had spent years and years building that team, it all finally clicked in the blink of an eye in the ‘if it bleeds we can kill it’ game.
Same thing has happened with Geelong recently and they have suddenly 'clicked'.
konstas_87
3 Jun 2007, 13:41
I don't think Browny's carrying anything serious.
I reckon he's getting better by the week.
they were saying pre game i think we just expect too much from him. if he had kicked straight this year with the same stats we'd probably be talking of the next KPP brownlow. he has been doing pretty well i reckon when yo think about it, just not kicking 8 goals.
the forward line looks 10x better with clark in it, makes patfull the third tall which gives him opportunity to dominate, and gives browny some1 to kick to.
Grimreepah
3 Jun 2007, 13:50
Also why only the one ruck,Charmo could have done with a hand, we have 3 excellent rucks in the ressies.
Also does anyone know how many bench rotations we did in the last quarter? last week we got killed in that area again.
If you are blaming rotations for our lack of run, then by logic you should be supportive of only playing 1 ruckman, because that was designed to increase our run.
Grimreepah
3 Jun 2007, 13:58
Must admit I was a bit surprised that Selwood came back into the side so quick. I said in a previous thread a few weeks back, that I didn't think he should be an automatic selection. I think he is a bit overated by our supporters.
While I disagree with the above statement, I don't think Selwood is playing in his best role. IMO he is much more effective when he lays a hard tag. He is playing more as a ball winner now, and as you said his poor disposal reduces the impact of his high possession numbers. Maybe they are easing him back after his injury, but we don't really have anyone else that has his stopping abilities.
Loyal Lion
3 Jun 2007, 14:08
While I disagree with the above statement, I don't think Selwood is playing in his best role. IMO he is much more effective when he lays a hard tag. He is playing more as a ball winner now, and as you said his poor disposal reduces the impact of his high possession numbers. Maybe they are easing him back after his injury, but we don't really have anyone else that has his stopping abilities.
Grim I think Fixter is just as effective as Selwood as a tagger. Don't think we should have both in the same side. Fixter turns the ball too often as well. I think you're right though. Leigh's trying to use Selwood as a ball winner.
I wouldn't have Selwood in my best 22 at present. IMO he was brought back in too early. He did lay a great tackle at game's end though.
Yet again I would have dropped Patfull a couple of weeks ago too. He was our best forward last night.
TheBrownDog
3 Jun 2007, 14:10
Patfull took some pressure marks in clutch situations last night.
Was wrapped with his game.
All true, but i like to take a different approach to the fact that nothing specific can change that side of the team. Instead of going well if we can't know what will do it, we are in trouble. I go with the POV that if we don't know what will be the catalyst it may just be around the corner:)...optimistic i know, but it won me 20 buks off a mate last week with 20 mins left in Essendon/Richmond game (Essendon were going to start kicking properly!)I don’t really think we are in trouble. I just think there are a million things that go into making a team work and that not one of them in themselves is the answer.
Each team is comprised of different personalities and different physical attributes and all of those things change over time. So you can’t just apply the same formula each time to unlock what makes a team work.
I agree the catalyst might be just around the corner, maybe it’s the ‘aka game’, who knows.
TheBrownDog
3 Jun 2007, 14:19
I agree the catalyst might be just around the corner, maybe it’s the ‘aka game’, who knows.
"If it talks, we can silence it!"
Same thing has happened with Geelong recently and they have suddenly 'clicked'.Absolutely. Same is true in the opposite direction. The 2003 grand final broke the Pies. Were never the same team again, only started recovering last year.
Mick is a quality coach, and even though the spent a couple of years in the wilderness he has them back and firing again.
"If it talks, we can silence it!"I like it.:thumbsu:
I don't think we can compare this team to the team in 2000/01. That was a team containing some absolute freaks who had played in around 5 finals series in 6 seasons.
maroon and blue
3 Jun 2007, 14:52
"If it talks, we can silence it!"
Not bad, not bad at all. Revenge is a dish best served cold.:D