Is it time to trade a ruckman?

[Warwick]

This has been a very popular subject on many other boards, but I would like to see what other people think on this one. The value of a quality ruck is probably at it's highest for many years. There are at least 5 teams who desperately need a ready-made big man, so you would tend to think they will have to pay over the odds.

I do think you need at least 3 ruckmen on your list, and Lethal's teams traditionally have 4. But would we do better to have another classy midfielder/half-back flanker who can find a target? And this is not purely an knee-jerk reaction to tonight. I do think we are missing someone with polish and precision running through our defense and midfield. I know Adcock and Drummond can play that role, but I think we are just missing that link player. I have strongly dismissed the idea of trading one of our 4 before, but I think it now has merit considering the supply-demand is firmly in our favour. IMO we are down in 2 areas - CHB and the type of player I described before.

The two men who would be safe are Charmo and Leunenberger. There is no doubt in my mind Woody will be a gun wherever he plays, and he will command a high price. Bozo's price wouldn't be as high, but we could probably afford to lose him over Wood.

If we were to trade one of them, forget draft picks. This years draft is apparantely a little shallow (ask irel on that one?), and we would not win out by replacing a green 18 year old with a man who plays the most important position on the ground. I would only trade for a "best 18" player.

To tell you the truth, I don't thing we have exploited our advantage in our ruck stocks. We have been pretty disappointing in the ruck this year, and most games we break even with the opposition.

Is it time to make the move and shop one around?

[BigCat2]

Reasonable question to ask, although probably a little bit early.

I do agree that we need someone with a bit of polish coming out of the back half, but we don't necessarily need to trade for one. Stiller does a good job. Corrie could come back well from injury. Even Schmidt may play a few good games there and grow into that role.

I know that all 3 of them could flop in that role, but again, they could make it. I would see how the rest of the season pans out first before I think about my trading options.

Also I agree with having 4 rucks. Say we trade Beau away, then Charmo goes down with an injury - then we'll just have Woody and Berger rucking for us. In our glory years we always had 1-2 ruckmen who had long term injuries. It's a position that's difficult to cover.

In terms of back up for CHB, it looks like the options are Brennan, Mills and Roe. Tyler has shown some promise, and Tippett and Clouston are definition 'project players' who could turn out to be anything. I agree our team currently lacks that big, dependable and commanding CHB a la Justin Leppitsch. He was a special player and we probably won't find another in a hurry. I'm pinning my hopes on Brennan and Tyler at this stage. I like the discipline in Mills, but I think he just lacks that speed off the mark.

In summary, it looks like we have plenty of promising/unproven players in most areas, but you don't know how they're going to turn out. If say even one player in every category (ruck, tall, midfielder, runner) become quality AFL players, then we'll look a lot better as a team. Right now there's just too many players who are inconsistent or beg the question "will they make it or won't they?". The only way to find out is to keep playing them, and keep the ones who you believe will belong in a premiership-winning squad.

[HBK619]

We will take any, Beau might be a tad too old though.

Do you guys think Adam Pattison has a future with us or are we in a dire situation.

You guys are thinking should you trade a ruckman and we are looking to our 4th Ruckman who is actually a forward to Ruck for us.

What would you take for Cam Wood, first round only or second round and a player maybe?

[Sherminator.]

We will take any, Beau might be a tad too old though.

Do you guys think Adam Pattison has a future with us or are we in a dire situation.

You guys are thinking should you trade a ruckman and we are looking to our 4th Ruckman who is actually a forward to Ruck for us.

What would you take for Cam Wood, first round only or second round and a player maybe?

Nothing, go away, hands of the Wood, thanks. I met Wood before the game today, though we only said hello, I still think he is a great player, will be a Lion for life, IMO.

[HBK619]

Nothing, go away, hands of the Wood, thanks. I met Wood before the game today, though we only said hello, I still think he is a great player, will be a Lion for life, IMO.
Had a deep conversation did you, really said something about his character to respond?

[Grimreepah]

I agree that Charman and Leuenberger are pretty much untouchable. Charman because he is our best ruckman and because he is a part of the heart and soul of the club, and Leuenberger simply because of his enormous potential.

I think people are sometimes too harsh on Wood, because IMO he is doing very well for a 20 year old and is progressing very rapidly. However I could imagine a club making a massive offer for him and the Lions at least contemplating it.

Beau? There is a question mark whether the game has passed him by. He is good in the ruck but these days you need to contribute around the ground as well. More likely to be delisted than traded IMO, and I certainly can't imagine getting a budding CHB for him.

I do agree that CHB is our real problem area at the moment, but I'm not sure this can be fixed through trading. Quality CHBs are probably rarer than quality rucks at the moment. It'd be great to get someone like Gumbleton or Hansen, but they are probably untouchables too. A quick fix would be great but I just can't see it happening.

[Sherminator.]

It wasn't really relevant to this, but I can tell you that Woody is well like in Brisbane and is definately a part of Brisbanes future.

So how about you **** off and go mooch another promising youngster or get Kruezer with the number 1 draft pick?

Kthnxbai.

[Warwick]

What would you take for Cam Wood, first round only or second round and a player maybe?
As I mentioned in the opening post, we would be behind in the trade if we only got draft picks. I would only trade for quality players.

[Warwick]

Beau? There is a question mark whether the game has passed him by. He is good in the ruck but these days you need to contribute around the ground as well. More likely to be delisted than traded IMO, and I certainly can't imagine getting a budding CHB for him.

I do agree that CHB is our real problem area at the moment, but I'm not sure this can be fixed through trading. Quality CHBs are probably rarer than quality rucks at the moment. It'd be great to get someone like Gumbleton or Hansen, but they are probably untouchables too. A quick fix would be great but I just can't see it happening.
Exactly. I forgot to say the only problem with fixing our CHB situation is there are very few going around.

I don't know why Brisbane do not try and actively trade some of their players before delisting them. Half of our delisted players end up at opposition clubs the following season. If Beau was delisted, he would be snapped up in the first 2 picks of the PSD.

[Sherminator.]

It is probaly best we delist/trade Beau so we have room to keep Charman, Wood and Leuenberger on the list. We'll definately have more salary cap space to offer a better contract for Woody next season. :thumbsu:

[BigCat2]

It looks like Woody will play next weekend. If he holds his spot for the rest of the year and plays well, then we can contemplate trading Beau. He has to have some runs on the board for us to feel confident. So far we've just got patches of solid play and missing in action.

You won't get a gun CHB via trade, unless the player really wanted to leave. There's no point getting one who isn't top drawer either, because we're probably better off developing our own batch.

[TheBrownDog]

What would be our chances of trading Beau and a late pick to St Kilda for Armitage?

Maybe swap some picks as a sweetener.

[Sherminator.]

What would be our chances of trading Beau and a late pick to St Kilda for Armitage?

Maybe swap some picks as a sweetener.

While we're at it, we can get Riewoldt in 2 Qlders for 6 draft picks! :rolleyes:

[BigCat2]

What would be our chances of trading Beau and a late pick to St Kilda for Armitage?

Maybe swap some picks as a sweetener.

Beau and late pick for #9 in the Super Draft? No chance...

You'd think that Beau + first/second round (depending how high/low we finish) could be closer to the target, but only if St Kilda consider him dispensable. I mean, I wouldn't consider trading any of our 2006 draftees away right now, and why would St Kilda be any different?

[beatnik]

charmo and the berger are, as grim said, untouchable

big beau he probably wouldn't demand too much in a trade given his injuries but don't forget he is playing on a modest wage and is therefore pretty good value for money

i think he will be a serviceable backup ruckman for several years - probably for as long as he is happy playing that covering role

if there was to be a trade, it would have to be wood and i can't see the club even contemplating it for a full year or two - if at all

[TheBrownDog]

Maxwell for Wood? Harry O'Brien has taken his spot at CHB.. could be a win win

Heath Shaw will do nicely :P

[campbell]

So why are you guys thinking we should get rid of beau or Wood or any ruck for that matter.

We need 2 of them last night. hard to shine when 3 are not in the team.

[Warwick]

So why are you guys thinking we should get rid of beau or Wood or any ruck for that matter.
Because we have deficits in other areas and now may be the time to try and arrest them while the market for a ruck is so fierce.

We need 2 of them last night. hard to shine when 3 are not in the team.
On paper we have had the edge in the ruck nearly all year. I can't remember one game where we absolutely smashed the opposition's ruckmen and dominated the clearances.

[macca231]

Brisbane should be looking at a kid called Lachie Henderson from the Geelong Falcons. Probably the best KP prospect in the draft, although will survive to your pick, maybe around 3-7, due to some class midfielders and the fact that he has broken his leg about a month ago. Currently plays CHF although could be turned into a quality CHB. Around 196cm, and 90kg, currently 17.

[Warwick]

Brisbane should be looking at a kid called Lachie Henderson from the Geelong Falcons. Probably the best KP prospect in the draft, although will survive to your pick, maybe around 3-7, due to some class midfielders and the fact that he has broken his leg about a month ago. Currently plays CHF although could be turned into a quality CHB. Around 196cm, and 90kg, currently 17.
Cheers, but we wil not have pick 3 or 4.

[campbell]

Because we have deficits in other areas and now may be the time to try and arrest them while the market for a ruck is so fierce.


On paper we have had the edge in the ruck nearly all year. I can't remember one game where we absolutely smashed the opposition's ruckmen and dominated the clearances.

Maybe we should have got Joel Selwood this last draft then?

Maybe we should trade some players who are not performing, in which we have a glut of, or who are injury prone or some other reason.

What happens if next year as has happened in the past, we have ruck injuries.We need to have 4.They are all good rucks.You need to get 1st use of the ball, no point trading away a KPP player.

Trade midfields, they are dime a dozen.

Anyway Warwick, whats the list of who is out of contract at the end of the year?

[black_hart]

Maxwell for Wood? Harry O'Brien has taken his spot at CHB.. could be a win win

A hack for a rising star ruckman..mmm let me think...no. Try Dale Thomas and we'll talk. After resigning Pendlebury he's the only decent trade you have. Except perhaps your 2 top ten KP picks from last year but they are untried.

[notting18]

I think Beau is the one who should be put up for trade, seeing as we may even pick up a young ruckman again this year, unless Wood wants out and then its him(for a higher value).

With regards to CHB, most of those people who get stuck into Merrett should be looking at how much assistance he gets. Last night he played very well on Richo - one of Richo's goals came from a 2-1 marking contest where Big Red spoiled on the 50 and in the 'good ol' days' if Mal or Leppa did that the other would then go to pick up Richo after that contest. That didn't happen and Richo pretty much took an unconstested mark.....he needs some support!

[TheBrownDog]

Maybe we should have got Joel Selwood this last draft then?

Maybe we should trade some players who are not performing, in which we have a glut of, or who are injury prone or some other reason.

What happens if next year as has happened in the past, we have ruck injuries.We need to have 4.They are all good rucks.You need to get 1st use of the ball, no point trading away a KPP player.

Trade midfields, they are dime a dozen.

Anyway Warwick, whats the list of who is out of contract at the end of the year?

You say that we should have got Joel Selwood and then go on to say that midfielders are a dime a dozen. I'm confused.

Leuenberger was too good to pass up anyway IMO.

Going to be special.

[lion_gooner]

in regards to the-Do you guys think Adam Pattison has a future with us or are we in a dire situation.

the answer is clearly NO he is an absolute dud even close to kingsley in being a dud he is that bad missed quite a few chances that an afl footballer would have kicked a goal

[Warwick]

in regards to the-Do you guys think Adam Pattison has a future with us or are we in a dire situation.

the answer is clearly NO he is an absolute dud even close to kingsley in being a dud he is that bad missed quite a few chances that an afl footballer would have kicked a goal
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8281/linginoux5.png (http://imageshack.us/)

"Must conserve battery power".

[TheBrownDog]

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8281/linginoux5.png (http://imageshack.us/)

"Must conserve battery power".

"Linguo dead?"

"Linguo.... is..... deaaaaaddd."

[Warwick]

Yeah right, H Shaw or Thomas or 2 top ten picks... should they throw in Pendlebury just to be sure?.. you wont get jack shit being unrealistic
Don't come on here talking about being unrealistic. I'll give you points for not suggesting the usual suspects (Lonie and Leon Davis).

However, it's not like the supporters have any say at all in the matter.

You have embarrased yourself all ready this weekend, bugger off.

[TheBrownDog]

We've got our own Maxwell in Wayde Mills.

If someone wants Wood, they'll need to offer us something substantial.

[Sherminator.]

Okay, these Victorian supporters are starting to piss me off.

Firstly, Macca the Lions would even want Maxwell, he's a hack, I prefer Mills to Maxwell, but I'm thinking we'd be sure to draft the best half-back at seasons end.

Secondly, why would Wood want to move to Melbourne, he has settled down in Brisbane and is originally from Adelaide, so it's pretty safe to think he wouldn't want to move to Melbourne for the sheer fact it's AFL 24/7.

Thirdly, the more salary cap space we'll have next year we assure we'll make a big offer to keep Woody a Lion.

As for trades- McDonald, Copeland (doubtful), Moody, if it is possible. We'd fetch a fair price on Copeland, IMO.

My theory behind trading Beau is that well then be able to play Wood a lot more, which'll help him develop his game and keep him happy. Of course, Charmo will still be our first choice ruck, but Wood will be keen to get more game time (I expect he'll put on more muscle in the pre-season). But, do not forget, Leuenberger will be a third choice ruck if either of the above rucks are injured.

Clark would be a fourth choice, but I think he is best rucking in the F50 only.

[POBT]

Firstly, Macca the Lions would even want Maxwell, he's a hack, I prefer Mills to Maxwell, but I'm thinking we'd be sure to draft the best half-back at seasons end.

I rate Maxwell very highly. Tough, dedicated, athletic and reasonably skilled. Plays tall or short. I would be very happy if he joined us.

Secondly, why would Wood want to move to Melbourne, he has settled down in Brisbane and is originally from Adelaide, so it's pretty safe to think he wouldn't want to move to Melbourne for the sheer fact it's AFL 24/7.

If Wood is relegated to 4th choice ruck by year's end, he may go to any club where he thinks he is a chance of playing first team footy, even if that is in Melbourne. If Leuey comes into the side and immediately shows that he is a genuine star in the making, then Wood might see the writing on the wall. Not that I want to lose him but a last placed Richmond is going to be in a good position to make a play for him.

I am not adverse to trading Wood or Bozo. If we do that, I would want to draft another "project" ruckman though, unless someone like Tippett shows that he has a real future. Obviously, if we had a choice on which we'd keep, we'd probably go with Wood - but the market price may dictate who is traded. If clubs aren't willing to give anything of value up for Bozo but are happy to put up satisfactory trade bait for Balsa, then the club would be interested, particularly if the suspicion is that Wood may end up leaving for better opportunity. I think Bozo has a couple of good years in him and could certainly do a job for us while Leuey comes on. His is not a wasted place on the list although I reckon the club would listen to offers.

For those who criticise the selection of Leuenberger, a few facts need to be kept in mind:

- We did not draft him for 2007, or for that matter, 2008 either - it is no point comparing him to Selwood for at least another 2 years. We did not make a mistake, nor did Carlton, Essendon, North or Hawthorn who all took players other than Selwood.

- We could not have this discussion unless we had drafted Leuey. Whether or not you agree that we need an extra ruckman, drafting him has certainly opened up the possibility that we can derive some trade benefit from 1 of our 3 established rucks to rectify our other issues.

- If anyone knew that Bozo would be fit for the entire first half of the season, you must have had access to a crystal ball. If we had lost one of our rucks for any significant period of time, the "luxury" of Leuey on our list would be more appreciated.

- Leuenberger is the only difference between our ruck stocks and Richmond's. We have Charman, they have Simmonds - both highly rated rucks. We have McDonald, they have Knobel - both decent tap ruckmen with limitations around the ground. We have Wood, they have Pattison - 3rd/4th year rucks with a lot of improvement required to reach elite level. If we had not drafted Leuey, then we would be exposed to the same ruck deficiency as Richmond are so criticised for.

[Bonuspoints]

I really can't see the Lions trading Woods. Yeah you've got the Berger, but the big talls usually take a bit of time to come good so with Woods and Charman you've got two top notch rucks while you wait for the Berger to build up to AFL level. Beau is probably the one to trade, but he's got big questions marks due to his age and injury history. Still a good ruckman though and clubs looking to have a genuine run at the big prize will be interested. The clubs I think willing to go for McDonald would probably be Hawthorn, Collingwood, Dogs, Dees and possibly the Saints. They're probably the ones likely to contend for the premiership in the next two to three years that don't already have a set ruck duo. I reckon the Hawks are your best shot as I think they could really use a good ruckman the most although I'm not overally familiar with their list so I could be wrong.

Agree with the comment that Woods would be hard to draw out of the Lions. Once settled in Brissy players don't want to leave as long as they're getting a run in the firsts. The Lions are a well run club with a top coach and a good young list...so why would you want to leave other than that?

As for my club...the Pies...Maxwell for woods would never happen. Not an equal trade and too much in the Pies favour...ditto for Obrien...would need some sweeteners to go with either player. As for how much, well I think thats in the eye of the beholder as some rate them and some don't and for the sorts of players they are thats always going to be the case. They're not champs, but they're good week in contributors that win over the club supporters, but other supporters don't think much of. I think if the Pies are going to get one of the ruckmen it would have to be McDonald as he would require us to give the least...what we give I have no idea.

[walkers a legend]

chance of us taking a young one

[TheBrownDog]

chance of us taking a young one

Taking?

[Homer Jnr]

chance of us taking a young one

Dylan McLaren not enough?

[LuckyLuke]

I really can't see the Lions trading Woods. Yeah you've got the Berger, but the big talls usually take a bit of time to come good so with Woods and Charman you've got two top notch rucks while you wait for the Berger to build up to AFL level. Beau is probably the one to trade, but he's got big questions marks due to his age and injury history. Still a good ruckman though and clubs looking to have a genuine run at the big prize will be interested. The clubs I think willing to go for McDonald would probably be Hawthorn, Collingwood, Dogs, Dees and possibly the Saints. They're probably the ones likely to contend for the premiership in the next two to three years that don't already have a set ruck duo. I reckon the Hawks are your best shot as I think they could really use a good ruckman the most although I'm not overally familiar with their list so I could be wrong.

Agree with the comment that Woods would be hard to draw out of the Lions. Once settled in Brissy players don't want to leave as long as they're getting a run in the firsts. The Lions are a well run club with a top coach and a good young list...so why would you want to leave other than that?

As for my club...the Pies...Maxwell for woods would never happen. Not an equal trade and too much in the Pies favour...ditto for Obrien...would need some sweeteners to go with either player. As for how much, well I think thats in the eye of the beholder as some rate them and some don't and for the sorts of players they are thats always going to be the case. They're not champs, but they're good week in contributors that win over the club supporters, but other supporters don't think much of. I think if the Pies are going to get one of the ruckmen it would have to be McDonald as he would require us to give the least...what we give I have no idea.

Cam ain't a golfer.:rolleyes:

[Sherminator.]

Taking?
Yeah, Carlton has this habit were they try to pursue any good youngster to their club so they can have an excuse for being a failure. That and they can't draft good players past pick 3.

Carlton < Brisbane
Carlton < Wood