Potential trades?

[Ranno]

i was just thinking we didn't need him last year and we certainly don't this year. He seems redundant Gilham is three times the player he is. Get rid of him at the end of the year so we don't have to be subjected to the horror of seeing Z Dawson on the team sheet ever again!

[soupofficial]

i was just thinking we didn't need him last year and we certainly don't this year. He seems redundant Gilham is three times the player he is. Get rid of him at the end of the year so we don't have to be subjected to the horror of seeing Z Dawson on the team sheet ever again!

he's still developing, and is something that gilham and croad are not (195cm). a project player requires patience, no point getting rid of him after working with him for 3 years, and the coaching staff saying he's in the best form of his career.

[chrismew]

i don't think we would get anything for him to be honest

we are better off leaving him on the list for another year to develop and play as a back up to our key defenders

[Buddy Hero]

Naa he grew up following the hawks! :p

[Binxy]

I'm a Zac fan - I hope he comes good eventually.

[Hawkie_McHawkHawk]

i was just thinking we didn't need him last year and we certainly don't this year. He seems redundant Gilham is three times the player he is. Get rid of him at the end of the year so we don't have to be subjected to the horror of seeing Z Dawson on the team sheet ever again!

Get a clue.

Have you seen him in the VFL this year? He's been great, improving just like project players are meant to do.

I suppose you wanted to clean out Boyle a couple of years back too?

:thumbsd:

[GALON]

i was just thinking
Clearly, this is not the case.

[FriarTuck]

I am a Zac fan. We will delist at least three at the end of the year. Zac would have to be in the mix.

Not sure his kicking will ever be up to scratch but the rest of his game is fine. Hope he gets one more year but someone has to go.

[xellis]

wouldn't get anything for him.. i think he'll come good!! never hurts to have a bit of depth if not!

[philhawk]

1) I was his biggest critic a year ago

2) I've eaten my words after hearing about his performance in the VFL

3) Backline depth is invaluable in a team looking to play in finals

[Hodge2Franklin]

What's with everyone trying to win a popularity contest on here lately? I think Ranno is entitled to his opinion and on this one he is probably close to the money anyway...

For what it's worth Zac has been playing tremendous football down at Box Hill and probably deserves another chance.

Phil, Binxy and Gazza, although I am one who pushes for us to stick together on here, and also one who pushes the positive flag, I think our forum is better served when people don't get shot down for their opinions, whether we agree or not.

[Cheeseman]

Zac has no value as trade bait, not because he is useless, he's shown in the VFL he is far from it, but for the senior coach that recruited him, it would be a media relations nightmare. ;)

The kid has plenty to give, and is applying himself with grim determination week in and week out in the VFL. Zac has more strings to his bow than fullback, sadly, he just wont get a chance to play elsewhere for any meaningful time period this year I wouldnt think.

There will be others in the gun before The Cougar, and that is as it should be, I have no fear that he will still be on our list come 2008. :thumbsu:

[Blasé]

to be trade bait, you need to have recognised afl value.
he has none, so it's more a matter of whether we delist or persist?

i would persist, based on the fact we don't have another tall kp defender apart from thurgood, who will definitely get the flick.

zac's speed and spoiling are ok for a defender. has good height.

what he needs to develop:

1. put on muscle, and be a powerful athlete like croad
(right now he's got whitnall flab)
2. improve kicking
3. improve decision making

it's a bit to ask, but to make it at afl level that's what he needs. give him another pre-season to make those gains.

[Alex_au]

What if the Kangas gave their 2nd round pick for him ?

[Cheeseman]

What if the Kangas gave their 2nd round pick for him ?

Would that 2nd round pick net us someone that stands at 197cm and 94kg, with a couple of AFL preseasons under their belt, not to mention an intimate knowledge of team mates and game plan?

Better the devil you know.

Everyone is of course entitled to disagree with my point of view, but if you look at my sig, you will understand it is my moral duty to defend Zac to the hilt, moreso considering I get to plenty of VFL games, and I need to be honest with you, last year Gilly was merely average at VFL and now look at him.

Zac on the other hand has been in the best every week, surely there is a place on our list for a quality tall depth defender of his ilk. :thumbsu:

[Number 24]

i was just thinking we didn't need him last year and we certainly don't this year. He seems redundant Gilham is three times the player he is. Get rid of him at the end of the year so we don't have to be subjected to the horror of seeing Z Dawson on the team sheet ever again!

I don't mean to be personal but YOU ARE A F**K WIT.

I don't believe you are a Hawthorn supporter to write this crap about one of ours..... Collywobbles is your team with and attitude like that.. mate !!

[Birchall01]

Gilham spent a whole season at box hill and gradually built up his muscle similiar to Dawson. Look where he is now. He is 23. Dawson is 21. Dawson has significantly more height. Once he gains more experience he will become more composed and his decision making will improve. The hawks staff wouldnt keep him if they werent grooming him for a key position post. They have a habit of spotting young talent, wouldnt you say. I would prefer that Dawson spent this year developing at Box Hill, only coming in if we need key position defenders.

[phillm1]

clarko didnt spot zac swaby did, and he has been in the system now for around 4 years and is still only a boxhill player, but i think give him a cupple games more only due to injury for a spot, and see how he goes, but i really think no team will pick him up so he will be delisted and remain a vfl player, I apologise to all zac fans out there but i am being honest.

[Cheeseman]

clarko didnt spot zac swaby did, and he has been in the system now for around 4 years and is still only a boxhill player, but i think give him a cupple games more only due to injury for a spot, and see how he goes, but i really think no team will pick him up so he will be delisted and remain a vfl player, I apologise to all zac fans out there but i am being honest.

Correction, your opinion is honest.

The beauty of an opinion is that it isn't right or wrong, it just is. :thumbsu:

[HawkFan15]

1) I was his biggest critic a year ago

2) I've eaten my words after hearing about his performance in the VFL

3) Backline depth is invaluable in a team looking to play in finals

Well summed up, He has been on fire in the VFL all year and can't slot into our team at the moment. I think you'd find that if dawson did come into our team this week he wouldnt take the best foward and with our midfield dominance he wouldnt look nearly as exposed as he was last year.

[spudley14]

i don't think we would get anything for him to be honest

we are better off leaving him on the list for another year to develop and play as a back up to our key defenders
i agree, he is definantley not trade bait so i think we should keep him because he will improve as the years go on

[HawkFan15]

I thought i'd raise this thread because there is a fair chance that we will play a role in trade week this year.

For mine potential tradeable players are
-Dawson
-Young
-Ladson
-Jacobs
-Murphy

I love all those guys there but if you could get a second round draft pick for a clinton young then you might consider trading him. Just wondering others thoughts.

[bluespooner]

I'm a Zac fan - I hope he comes good eventually.

What year do you'll think that will be?

[Frankston Rover]

I wouldn't trade Young. Unless it was too good to refuse.

-Dawson
-Ladson
-Jacobs
-Murphy
-Osbourne
-Dixon
-Bateman

would be my trade baits.

Bateman could potentially get us another first round pick but, again, only if we got what we wanted.

[Roughie]

What year do you'll think that will be?

Its to early to tell, he may be good now. He is playing good footy at Box Hill and has been named in the best numerous times, but is unable to get in the side with the great form of Croad, Gilham, DJ, Birch etc.

If he doesnt get a crack this season he certainly will next because we will retain him on the list. He is there for depth and in the case of a Smith retirement he will be a ready replacement to begin more development as a third tall rather then getting the top forwards!

[Roughie]

Mine would be

-Osbourne
-Bateman
-Murphy

I cant see the point of offering Dixon as no one would bite on him, he is getting on in age and may not be around for next season. Also Dawson will not be traded, we need him for depth especially with DJ carrying his damaged hammy, we will hope there is no reinjury. Also with Smith having the chance of retirement we will keep Dawson in the team as we either draft a replacement KPP defender or continue to develop The Cougar.

[spudley14]

mine would be
Young
Murphy
Osborne
Clarke

[philhawk]

I wouldn't trade any.

Just on your possibles, Roughie and FR - how could you consider trading Bateman?! :eek:

I also think Murphy is getting the rough end of the stick ...

Moral of the story - trade none of them unless they want out of the club.

[d-mac3276]

I wouldn't trade Young. Unless it was too good to refuse.

-Dawson
-Ladson
-Jacobs
-Murphy
-Osbourne
-Dixon
-Bateman

would be my trade baits.

Bateman could potentially get us another first round pick but, again, only if we got what we wanted. I'd take Bateman and Young for sure

[spudley14]

I'd take Bateman and Young for sure
who would you give us?

[HawkFan15]

I wouldn't trade any.

Just on your possibles, Roughie and FR - how could you consider trading Bateman?! :eek:

I also think Murphy is getting the rough end of the stick ...

Moral of the story - trade none of them unless they want out of the club.

You've got to give something to get something, thats all im saying. Was croad a valuable player in 2001 yes, but was he potentially tradable if the right trade came along yes.

[Hodge2Franklin]

I thought i'd raise this thread because there is a fair chance that we will play a role in trade week this year.

For mine potential tradeable players are
-Dawson
-Young
-Ladson
-Jacobs
-Murphy

I love all those guys there but if you could get a second round draft pick for a clinton young then you might consider trading him. Just wondering others thoughts.

Young is one of my favourite players. He is worth a top 5 pick minimum. He is a gun. PLUS I would never trade him.

[delirious1]

the idea of trading bateo makes me ill, how could you guys:(

[Jeremias]

I notice Bateman has been mentioned in here, much to the disgust of some other posters.

For those that would not refuse to trade him, what would you want from Carlton in return for him? We need a tough player capable of playing in the middle, he would be perfect.

[Line in the Sand]

You guys are going to be kidding yourself with some of those trades. Whats the point of trading someone young like Murphy Young or Dawson to replace them with younger players who need even more time. How long do you want to go down a youth track? There has to come a time where we start crafting a team.

Young may not be the best midfielder however he is good and getting better. Laddo is in the same boat. We should keep them untill someone steps up and take there place (eg ellis, muston, kennedy or moss). We cannot rely that every top 20 pick is going to come along and be or star or even that good. Dawson is getting better and i would love to see a rematch between him and rocca. I don't reckon he would get another towling like he did. Who would want Dixon now??? (Hey terry i got a great deal for you!)
Murphy just hasn't been giving a solid go. He has had one or two games this year and last year and has done well in both. He is a solid player and will only get better. Bateman would be our fastest midfielder no point in letting someone liek him go. He has hit a flat spot and lets hope get through it.

All the good teams have good players in the reserves. We don't need to keep turning them over for younger and younger players. Every club wins some and lose some. With our luck with the rookie list i think we are doing very well.

[xellis]

I dont think we would be trading for draft picks as much this year.. Only be trading if a player came up to fill a hole in our list (crumbing forward, outside mid KP defender etc..)

Murphy
Bateman (sorry guys)
Ladson
Ossie

Don't even mention dixon in this thread. Been a great servant to the club

[boozeDragon]

i dont think bateman or young would be traded... they provide a lot of RUN, which our gameplan kinda works around

[Pessimistic]

We have to take 3 draft picks anyway - its going to be hard enough finding opportunities for thm without trading for another.

[somocca]

You guys are going to be kidding yourself with some of those trades. Whats the point of trading someone young like Murphy Young or Dawson to replace them with younger players who need even more time. How long do you want to go down a youth track? There has to come a time where we start crafting a team.

Young may not be the best midfielder however he is good and getting better. Laddo is in the same boat. We should keep them untill someone steps up and take there place (eg ellis, muston, kennedy or moss). We cannot rely that every top 20 pick is going to come along and be or star or even that good. Dawson is getting better and i would love to see a rematch between him and rocca. I don't reckon he would get another towling like he did. Who would want Dixon now??? (Hey terry i got a great deal for you!)
Murphy just hasn't been giving a solid go. He has had one or two games this year and last year and has done well in both. He is a solid player and will only get better. Bateman would be our fastest midfielder no point in letting someone liek him go. He has hit a flat spot and lets hope get through it.

All the good teams have good players in the reserves. We don't need to keep turning them over for younger and younger players. Every club wins some and lose some. With our luck with the rookie list i think we are doing very well.

Agree totally Line In The Sand. There is no way in hell you would even consider trading Ladson. He is playing great footy right now and Bateman's run is invaluable. Dawson is playing brilliant footy at the Box Hill Hawks and is knocking on the door for selection. As you say, why would you trade young kid's for other kids? Patient people, our time is coming. Quicker than some might think.

[bak2bak8889]

NO!!!!!!! just not on. This kid will be in snrs when time is right. FB or CHB is where he'll play in the future, I ask why would you do think that? EVERY single player that has played at full back has had goals kicked against him, its part of the territory. Don't believe the media for f***s sake!!!!!!!

[SomeBodyStopMe]

Agree totally Line In The Sand. There is no way in hell you would even consider trading Ladson. He is playing great footy right now and Bateman's run is invaluable. Dawson is playing brilliant footy at the Box Hill Hawks and is knocking on the door for selection. As you say, why would you trade young kid's for other kids? Patient people, our time is coming. Quicker than some might think.
Absolutley right, trade established players for an 18 year old who will take 4 years (the years that the "tradeables" have done and come through with flying colours) to come on??? silly thread people, we h ave a good mix, our 2nd tier players r doing the job, our stars r doing the job, we have enough young kids running around at Box Hill to use if needed, and trust me, a lot of them will be used as most of them r guns anyway

[HawkFan15]

Absolutley right, trade established players for an 18 year old who will take 4 years (the years that the "tradeables" have done and come through with flying colours) to come on??? silly thread people, we h ave a good mix, our 2nd tier players r doing the job, our stars r doing the job, we have enough young kids running around at Box Hill to use if needed, and trust me, a lot of them will be used as most of them r guns anyway

Yeh the thread is a little silly around this time of year but after seeing a similar thread paying out dawson as expendable and nothing but trade bait. I thought who are the players we could potentially trade. For mine after thinking about it some more the only players we could get something for and could potentially loose if the RIGHT trade came up,

Young
Ladson
Osborne

but it would have to be a very very appetising trade because at the moment those guys are performing, i know some posters get stuck into ossies use of the footy but he still is a useful player IMO.

[mulhollanddrive]

Absolutely no need to trade. Unless we get something too good to refuse, i doubt we are going to be too proactive. The only area would be if Gilham drops off form and we might want to get a FB.

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Young and Ladson have been great this year. Why trade them?

Probably six players have to be cut/traded from the squad to enable new players to be drafted and I would have Thurgood as 1, and the other five likely to come from Dawson, Little, Tuck, Murphy, Osbourne, Dickson and Jacobs (never rated the guy).

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I am a Zac fan. We will delist at least three at the end of the year. Zac would have to be in the mix.

Not sure his kicking will ever be up to scratch but the rest of his game is fine. Hope he gets one more year but someone has to go.

How many clubs only delist 3? We will delist/trade at least five to find spots for new players.

[Loyal Hawk]

It will be interesting to see if we trade this year as we have a great team spirit and Clarko would be hesitant to break that up. We do however have to turn over 3 spots on the list and apart from Thurgood and Little it is extremely hard to see where that 3rd delisting is going to come from. Particularly if Dixon, Smith and Vanders continue. At this stage Dixon looks the most likely as Smith has answered his critics and adds to our midfield rotations. Normally you would expect this to come from our lower draft selections or rookie elevations. However we have not had any lower draft picks and all our recent rookie elevations have been sensational. I doubt that we would trade early draft selections such as Muston, Dowler, etc so therefore we could trade perhaps a player such as Ossie(even though he is handy and underratedon bigfooty) who we could get a 3rd round pick for.
It is going to be tough for Clarko and Pelchin. It might depend on whether a player wants to leave, but who would want to leave the hawks at the moment with the premiership window opening.
Even our rookies appear to be tough decisions at this stage because Gibson's been pretty good, Mcenttee is developing and Collins and Suckling are just returning from injury.
We definately wont be trading for a ruckman and if Bailey, Mcentee and Renouf develop, we will have 5 rucks and surely another club would make a play at 1 of them. As good ruckman don't grow on trees.

[Hawk Dork]

To suggest Ladson ,Young and Dawson you know nothing about football.

[MinerBoy]

I wouldn't trade any.

Just on your possibles, Roughie and FR - how could you consider trading Bateman?! :eek:

I also think Murphy is getting the rough end of the stick ...

Moral of the story - trade none of them unless they want out of the club.

And why is everyone mentioning Jacobs? Not a hope in hell he will be traded. He is one of the most important players in our entire set up.

[Lord_Espos]

Hodge
Mitchell
Crawford

They would get us some decent players.

[Hawkamania!]

Nice thread to discuss in October. This discussion does nothing positive for our club during the season.

[chrismew]

no way I would trade ladson, young or murphy, unless there was an offer too good too refuse

would'nt get anything for dawson, I would get rid of clarke and try and trade osborne and bateman

[kirbatron]

Hodge
Mitchell
Crawford

They would get us some decent players.

funny shit.

young is pissing me off at the moment, i do think he is a good player but he needs to work on hitting some targets and needs to improve his decision making. wouldnt trade him though.

everyone is putting in atm, so its a tough call. maybe a few youngsters that havent shown much.

[Hawkamania!]

Another thread for October discussion.

[Ranno]

Dixon won't be traded because this will be his last year. I'd be very surprised if he were offered another contract.

Michael Osborne for sure, no one would want him though i suspect we will delist him. He's had enough time yet still fumbles the ball and lacks composure he's going backwards.

Tom Murphy is incredibly underrated. I think he deserves more of a go - at centre half back especially with Croady out. He's pretty smart, agile and skillful and from all the Box Hill games i've seen he deserves more of an opportunity. I wouldn't trade him.

Get rid of Dawson we just don't need him. Gilhma is three times the player he is and i reckon Roughie would do just fine at full back yet we preced to play him forward.

No way on Bateman or Clarke both leaders and in their prime. We're all forgetting the fantastic hard working season Clarke had last year. He played much the same role as McGlynn is playing now. He's come a long way and has really established himself at the club.

[kirbatron]

i hear that he's been playing in the best every week which is great, but what has he improved significantly from last year?

does he read the play better, has he bulked up, how's his accelaration?

at afl standard he was terrible last year, not once did i get a glimpse of 'oh yeah thats why he will be a good player'. i just didnt see it, so i'm keen to find out what he's changed in his game...

[kirbatron]

u heard clarko, clarkey is up there with setting the best standards around the club like vanders. he can only kick 10 metres but he runs all day :)

[Ranno]

Hey Buddy i've actually been to every Box Hill game this year seen as i do their match reports. Get off your high horse! From what i've seen of him he's still not great, anyone can play well roaming free in the backline when the ball comes in 70 times per game like it does for Box Hill. But i guess you new that cos you probably turned on the TV for five minutes when Box Hill were on ABC twice. I've said nothing about Boyle or anyone else with natural football talent. As long as he's in the VFL i'll be happy. thanks anyway......

[MinerBoy]

^^^ OSBORNE was one of the reasons, along with Boyle, that we weren't completely blown away in the first qtr last week. He was terrific.

[Ranno]

I don't mean to be personal but YOU ARE A F**K WIT.

I don't believe you are a Hawthorn supporter to write this crap about one of ours..... Collywobbles is your team with and attitude like that.. mate !!

Yeah umm...just wondering if you've got any factual evidence to support your blatant crap? or do you just attack people with your unfounded, unsubstantiated trash? You don't get any better as a team by su$#%ing off players that have a goal kicked on them every time the ball comes near them!

:mad:

But i suppose i'm a Collingwood supporter because i don't support every single player in the team.....yes? You're a joke!

"Lets keep all our players, we don't want to trade any of them, they're all just so good" good luck with that midset buddy!!

[Ranno]

Clearly, this is not the case.

very humerous my man......are you always this funny? Save that crap for msn (year 8) and give us some actual opinion on FOOTBALL!

[Chrissie90]

I'd hate to see any of the boys get traded. But my dad reckons that almost anyone is tradable - for the right thing in return - he thinks that the Roos did well even from trading Wayne Carey!

He says that if we could get a monster fullback, small forward - or running outside onballer, that we should look at what is out there.

He thinks that we have too many players for some positions - and not enough for others.

If we do trade, I hope we pick up daniel giansiracusa - coz he is a spunk!!!

[Fraser_45]

very humerous my man......are you always this funny? Save that crap for msn (year 8) and give us some actual opinion on FOOTBALL!
This has to be the worst post ever in big footy. ranno you clearly have to much time on your hands. I bet you have never been to a box hill game. Zac is a gun and we should'nt doubt it when he gets his chance(hahahhaha)

[Gary Shadforth]

Most names mentioned in this place are non negotiable. Maybe, I repeat, maybe one or two, but it is most unlikely as Clarko and his cohorts have put too much hard work into the development of the young lads suggested.

Why would our coaching staff give the opportunity for a rival coach/club to have the fruits of their labour and the spoils of the talent mentioned?

Personally, and I say it as having an opinion if some don't mind, I dislike trading threads at a time in a season when so much is going for our excellent young team, a united one made up of the thickest of mates working their butts off to cause a premiership for our club. Why suggest parting these great mates, particularly this time of the year when the team is going well?

Does it do well for our young players visiting this forum? Nothing like encouraging and egging them along in their great work, is it?

[xyakks]

Poor Zack. Gets thrown into the deep end early last year. A struggling team, a weak defence and he's given the task of taking on the best forwards in the game. No surprise he looked out of his depth in 1 on 1 contests, but people look too much at the bad and not enough at the good.

A 20 year old Dawson was lamblasted in the media and for what reason? He stood up and had a crack when noone else would. I think it's a great sign that even though the media was having a crack at him he just got on with the job. He's even continued to improve and has been very good in the VFL this year, better than Gilham was last year, and he's a couple years younger than Gilham.

For mine Dawson also showed his composure down back when the ball was on the ground, his kicking isn't the best, still better than Hay, and his ability to pass the ball by hand when under pressure was pretty good.

He'd probably make a good 2nd or 3rd tall for our side right now, but because of our teams form he hasn't been able to crack a spot.

Gotta feel sorry for him, through no fault of his own he's become the whipping boy for lousy, aggressive kids who just want to btch and moan about something on a footy forum.

[singlo]

Just because he has not played for Hawthorn this year does not mean he is no good. It is now getting very difficult to break into the team. Also because he is not in the news does not mean he is not travelling well. Remember Timmy Boyle we heard nothing about him for a few years and now he is flying. Zac is a very good player and should not be traded as we need him for depth, when injuries occur as I am sure they will. We are travelling well as a team today because we are able to cover for players who get injured, the port game is good example. When Croady and Laddo got injured, we still pulled off a win because we had quality replacements. That is what a premiership team is all about and I am sure Zac will be part of a premiership in the not too distant future. So get off his case, he doesn't need all this negativism, and let him get on with the job of developing as a fine backman for our club.

[hawkstars]

no way I would trade ladson, young or murphy, unless there was an offer too good too refuse

would'nt get anything for dawson, I would get rid of clarke and try and trade osborne and bateman

Ill back you up mate and well said

[FootyLover1964]

i dont think bateman or young would be traded... they provide a lot of RUN, which our gameplan kinda works around
Totally agree. Agree. Bateman makes mistakes with his disposal at times but he also forces critical turnovers with his attack oin the footy. As for Young. We need goalkicking wingman which he is. Keep both.

[The Cryptkeeper]

Young is one of my favourite players. He is worth a top 5 pick minimum. He is a gun. PLUS I would never trade him.

Jesus, I like Young as well but if you believe that he is worth a top 5 draft pick then there is a job for you at the Kangaroos. If we were offered a pick anywhere in the top 20 for Young, we'd take it and laugh all the way to draft day.

Young is a good and developing kid. However, he will be on the fringes of selection come finals time if guys like Vandenberg and Clarke are available. We have some very talented youngsters but we also overrate a couple of them big time.

[Chrissie90]

would'nt get anything for dawson, I would get rid of clarke and try and trade osborne and bateman

We wouldnt get much for Ozzie would we? He seems to try hard, but he doesnt seem much good. Will he get better?

[Blasé]

to be trade bait, you need to have recognised afl value.
he has none, so it's more a matter of whether we delist or persist?

i would persist, based on the fact we don't have another tall kp defender apart from thurgood, who will definitely get the flick.

zac's speed and spoiling are ok for a defender. has good height.

what he needs to develop:

1. put on muscle, and be a powerful athlete like croad
(right now he's got whitnall flab)
2. improve kicking
3. improve decision making

it's a bit to ask, but to make it at afl level that's what he needs. give him another pre-season to make those gains.

notice that i used logic and objectivity. i have seen very, very little at all logic here, just some wishful thinking and crtiticism of some players that are average and nothing special. YOU PEOPLE ARE JUST ABSOLUTE NUMNUTS!

again, if we're trading they must have some market value based on football experience or potential. as well, it's really a matter of looking at a player and see if he's in an area (ie midfield, backline...) that needs depth and if they're worth persisting with.

ask the question: persist or delist?

it appears as though the fact that we traded thompson, lonie, hay and everitt that people here think that we're going to make big trades every year. we're in a position to have many young players that are deliberate investments that will fill the deficiencies.

if we do make a trade, it will very particular, and most unlikely a draft pick, due to wanting a ready young player to fill a deficiency.

run and pace is still an area we could enhance, so why would you get rid of young and batemen. internally we can work on muston, but it would have to be a very particular trade, even such our draft picks could be on the table instead of a player.

seeing the improvement of players such as taylor, mcglyn, young, gilham and boyle, i have much confidence in the ability of our coaching staff in improving players, so stay internal, and only go external if desperate.

thankfully our staff are not taking advice from you people, otherwise we would be having some really dark times.

[Ranno]

This has to be the worst post ever in big footy. ranno you clearly have to much time on your hands. I bet you have never been to a box hill game. Zac is a gun and we should'nt doubt it when he gets his chance(hahahhaha)

I'm sorry i've come around Zac is a gun. He's a GUN. I can't wait till he gets his chance Fraser. I'll be sure to pop down to Box Hill to see them play when i can.....again i'm sorry. What was i thinking.....?:confused:

Fraser we could all do with your composure, knowhow and optimism in times like these thankyou again.

[col44]

I'll start off addressing the people that have written to discuss in October. As Hawthorn supporters unfortunately usually by June we're looking forward to what Christmas in October brings. It has become the most important part of our season.

This is no longer the case. The most important time is right now! But that doesn't change the habit of thinking about trades... thats been building for the past 6 seasons.

This year no-one, unless they ask specifically (which won't happen), will be put up for trade. We will open the floor and take offers on players on our list from other teams. If the trade is beneficial to the team the trade will be considered. If the trade is acceptable to the club the coach should decide whether to discuss the possibility of being traded with the proposed player.

If WCE came to Hawthorn and said Williams, Bateman and pick 15 for Judd it would be considered.

If Carlton came to us with Whitnall and Pick 67 for Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis and Williams, it would be considered.

Granted one would be given more thought than the other they would both be looked at.

If someone asked us what we would accept for Z Dawson it would be considered.

Yes he is a handy back-up KPP backman. I don't want to hear the 'he'd be good as a third tall' argument because the third tall defender requires smarts and skills over defensive ability, which are not Zac's strong suits.

He's a fullback or CHB. If he's not good enough to mind Lloyd, Hall, Pavlich, Tredrea or Lynch then he probably not going to be as valuable to the club. He doesn't need to be shopped around though and will continue to get better and may prove to be a valuable member of the coming years.

With a couple of likely de-listings and at least one retirement (forced or otherwise) this year we will be in a position to trade a couple of picks for a quality player.

I wouldn't be too upset if we traded our first and/or second picks this year for a 22 - 26 year old quality player. How many years of juniors can we have fighting to get a game. The side needs to start settling and with kids like Tuck, Kennedy, Muston, Dowler, Thorp, Baily, Ellis, Moss and Renouf trying to break in to the side and guys like Clarke, Williams and Vanders to come back it's going to be to be a tough place to get a game over the next few years. The idea is to keep the kids we've got now to develop. Trading players will not be neccessary. Now we've finally got the list we wanted the idea should be about turning over 3 to 5 guys a year to bring in 3 kids and 1 or 2 players to fill the gaps each and every year.

Remember we only will lose maybe 4 players to retirement over the next 4 years. That means there will be at least 9 other players being turned over in that time.

If Tim Boyle's injury happened this year for example, he'd be done. Yes, some guys take longer to develop than others but I guarantee that they probably won't be sitting at the back of this Hawthorn list for long because someone will need to go. Guys like Matt Little, Murphy, Thurgood and even Dawson can't be carried for year after year while we hope they develop into league footballers.

Go Hawks. Make my year and pump the Swans this weekend.

[Hawk0373]

This is obviously food for thought but if WC offered Darren Glass for Mark Williams, would you accept it?

[Cheeseman]

Whilst agree with the majority of your post col44, your last line was a little disappointing. Zac is not being carried by Hawthorn, He has done enough to earn a spot in our senior side, but we have been blessed with the fact that noone deserves to be dropped.

I get to every Box Hill home game "I live 300 metres walk from City Oval"
And believe me when I say, the boy can play. Why dont we just afford him the luxury that Stephen Gilham had last year and let him excell at Box Hill for the majority of the season, and let him re-enter his AFL career with the confidence that was robbed from him by being the sacrificial lamb last year?

[col44]

Whilst agree with the majority of your post col44, your last line was a little disappointing. Zac is not being carried by Hawthorn, He has done enough to earn a spot in our senior side, but we have been blessed with the fact that noone deserves to be dropped.

I get to every Box Hill home game "I live 300 metres walk from City Oval"
And believe me when I say, the boy can play. Why dont we just afford him the luxury that Stephen Gilham had last year and let him excell at Box Hill for the majority of the season, and let him re-enter his AFL career with the confidence that was robbed from him by being the sacrificial lamb last year?

The carrying of Zac Dawson is complete. I understand what you're saying and agree. Zac if he is ever going to be ready it is now. He was carried last year when he wasn't ready. The whole getting games into him and there's nobody better stuff we were fed really gave me the pip. This won't be the case any more. No longer will guys get long stints in the 1's when they're not ready or not performing.

[Mervyn Beasley]

I'd hate to see any of the boys get traded. But my dad reckons that almost anyone is tradable - for the right thing in return - he thinks that the Roos did well even from trading Wayne Carey!

He says that if we could get a monster fullback, small forward - or running outside onballer, that we should look at what is out there.

He thinks that we have too many players for some positions - and not enough for others.

If we do trade, I hope we pick up daniel giansiracusa - coz he is a spunk!!!
Chrissie we have enough spunks. We do not need this one, and like your Dad said he would be just like a heap of others we already have.

[Blasé]

col44, good post.
i think we're pretty much on the same page, except you mentioned a few possible trading scenarios that i wouldn't agree with accepting. it's just too adventurous, and there are too many players involved that make it dependent on more variables, consequently making the outcome a lot less predictability than hoped when trading.

thus, as i said i would be far more comfortable with staying internal.

if we were to trade i would put forward a draft pick, but not a high one. the reason i would put the draft pick up would be for several reasons:
a) the player would've shown something at afl level and we would know exactly what we're getting.
b) the draft pick is more attractive to other clubs than the dispensable players who really are almost automatic delistings (e.g. dawson, thurgood, little,...etc).
c) the draft pick is more expendable now than it has been in other drafts. while i still think we should keep our 1st pick, i would consider that our list is in a state where we're less interested in investing, putting in time and waiting for a young player to add to our list.

reason
as i said before, i believe that we may have a deficiency in pace, and attacking player. could be either forward (alike to davey), back (alike to kenneally), or midfield. so there is a bit of flexibility in looking for the player, and i believe there are many available at a low price. however if we were looking for a specialist full back, there are few to choose from, and almost untouchable, hence not much reason to look around (also the reason for keeping zac!).

example1
andrew lovett (ess) position:forward goal sneak
i think with davey's arival this guy is getting less attention (and being injured), and is less required by essendon (so more expendable). with tall players around him, and midfielders supplying more, he would provide a genuine goalsneak we don't have.

on the table: (i) round 3 pick

example 2
lindsay thomas (kang) or matt campbell (kang) position:forward goal sneak
i think that they're both playing for the same postion, as above with davey, so they could be expendable.

on the table: (i) round 3 pick

can't be bothered going thru anymore.
however, i must say, i believe that muston could be a bit of a goal sneak for us the future, so we're not desperate for these trades - just float them up. as well, you may say that players such as thomas, campbell, davey and krakouer(port) were drafted this year, so we could do the same - and i agree but there's no guarantee they make afl level like trading could.

while i talk krakouer, i reckon richmond's could be pretty handy. i think that richmond have not gotten the most out of him, and at another team could be very useful. imo, you would only need to put round 3 pick on the table for him.

[Gary Shadforth]

Young is one of my favourite players. He is worth a top 5 pick minimum. He is a gun. PLUS I would never trade him.

Either will Al Clarkson, H2F. He has huge wraps on My Man, Clint, who often makes my day. :).

[Mervyn Beasley]

The problem with Dawson is that he should not have played AFL footy yet. He was thrown in the deep end last year before his time, and thus his reputation has been tarnished.
He is only playing well enough now to be considered for a spot.
I think we will definitely keep him. I also think he is best left at Box Hill for the whole year and only used if required in the ones.
We also need to consider that some players might want to be drafted for a better chance of senior footy elsewhere.
There might also be someone who cant refuse the bait of a bigger financial offer elsewhere.
Whatever the case there is going to be some hard decisions to make and as such there will be some unhappy fans.

Little and Thurgood are an ovious 2. Dixon should retire unless hits real form in last half of season. Dowler is a possible bait. As much as I like Murph I think he is replaceable. Cant come up with any others.

[Bennycoff]

Why even bother starting this up? Disgraceful.

Why would we trade for more kids when we have plenty? Why would be trade Young, Ladson, Boyle for second rounders when we have put time into developing them? It would be a backwards step trading any of our players that we've worked so hard on to develop, quite silly.

The only concerns for us is who do we delist? What is the minimum? 4?

[Mervyn Beasley]

Why even bother starting this up? Disgraceful.

Why would we trade for more kids when we have plenty? Why would be trade Young, Ladson, Boyle for second rounders when we have put time into developing them? It would be a backwards step trading any of our players that we've worked so hard on to develop, quite silly.

The only concerns for us is who do we delist? What is the minimum? 4?
Clarko and Pelchen claim there are still holes in our list and if they have to trade to fill them they will, regardless of how disloyal we might think it is.
It effects us so we are talking about it.
But to be honest I was more thinking along the lines of mandatory delistings anyway.
I have mentioned Dowler because i think it is bleedingly obvious that we will have to delist/trade the least likely KPP that we have drafted.

[mulhollanddrive]

Minimum is 3. I think Pelchen and AC, similarly to me be happy to rest on our squad given the internal improvement in the areas where we have needed improving.

McGlynn has given us a runner who can kick goals
Taylor has given us the replacement ruckman for Spider
Gilham is our 2nd key tall defender with Brown pinch hitting.

If they continue their form i dont see a specific area that is needed to trade for. Outside runners can be drafted and due to not needing a 85kg body to be that type of player, can fit in at 18/19 if they are good enough. Same goes for a goal sneek, may even be the same player.

[d-mac3276]

who would you give us?
I'b give u a pat on the head and say its ok for being that silly wanting to get rid of these 2

[Hodge2Franklin]

Either will Al Clarkson, H2F. He has huge wraps on My Man, Clint, who often makes my day. :).

I agree Gary... I can't believe people don't rate your boy ... He is a gun!!!

[Dixie Flatline]

col44, good post.
i think we're pretty much on the same page, except you mentioned a few possible trading scenarios that i wouldn't agree with accepting. it's just too adventurous, and there are too many players involved that make it dependent on more variables, consequently making the outcome a lot less predictability than hoped when trading.

thus, as i said i would be far more comfortable with staying internal.

if we were to trade i would put forward a draft pick, but not a high one. the reason i would put the draft pick up would be for several reasons:
a) the player would've shown something at afl level and we would know exactly what we're getting.
b) the draft pick is more attractive to other clubs than the dispensable players who really are almost automatic delistings (e.g. dawson, thurgood, little,...etc).
c) the draft pick is more expendable now than it has been in other drafts. while i still think we should keep our 1st pick, i would consider that our list is in a state where we're less interested in investing, putting in time and waiting for a young player to add to our list.

reason
as i said before, i believe that we may have a deficiency in pace, and attacking player. could be either forward (alike to davey), back (alike to kenneally), or midfield. so there is a bit of flexibility in looking for the player, and i believe there are many available at a low price. however if we were looking for a specialist full back, there are few to choose from, and almost untouchable, hence not much reason to look around (also the reason for keeping zac!).

example1
andrew lovett (ess) position:forward goal sneak
i think with davey's arival this guy is getting less attention (and being injured), and is less required by essendon (so more expendable). with tall players around him, and midfielders supplying more, he would provide a genuine goalsneak we don't have.

on the table: (i) round 3 pick

example 2
lindsay thomas (kang) or matt campbell (kang) position:forward goal sneak
i think that they're both playing for the same postion, as above with davey, so they could be expendable.

on the table: (i) round 3 pick

can't be bothered going thru anymore.
however, i must say, i believe that muston could be a bit of a goal sneak for us the future, so we're not desperate for these trades - just float them up. as well, you may say that players such as thomas, campbell, davey and krakouer(port) were drafted this year, so we could do the same - and i agree but there's no guarantee they make afl level like trading could.

while i talk krakouer, i reckon richmond's could be pretty handy. i think that richmond have not gotten the most out of him, and at another team could be very useful. imo, you would only need to put round 3 pick on the table for him.

Richmond would bite your hand off for that trade. He is a dud, pure and simple.

[Gary Shadforth]

Clarkson is trying to establish a team with a great culture at Hawthorn. If people believe that trading away our local heroes for 'foreign mercenaries', then I say they need to take a look at themselves.

My thoughts exactly, phil. I suggest Clarko has simular philosophical ideas as he goes about his hard work in redeveloping a fast improving young football side.

Discussions about trading, particularly when we have just turned the corner and at last, after several downer years to gain respect this season, I scratch my head when trade posts appear. I become absolutely appalled. Okay, they are entitled opinions but there is also bewilderment. If our side was performing badly it would be timely to look at trades but our list is made up of a solid core team plus an enormous depth of {young] talent. I stand amazed.

[ojeriojo]

Just an observation - we do have a few players that have come from other clubs, such as Guerra, Jacobs and Gilham.

[ricta]

This is obviously food for thought but if WC offered Darren Glass for Mark Williams, would you accept it?

that is a good one! Hmmmmmm

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Some posters have suggested we will only cut/trade 3 players which for mine, just won't happen.

If we look at the 'outs' for each club from last year, there were:

10 from Carlton, Pies, Roos and Port
7 from the Lions, Bombers, Swans, Eagles and Dogs
6 from Freo, Hawks, Tigers and Saints
5 from the Crows and the Cats
4 from Melbourne.

I think we'll do at least five - enabling four to be selected from the national draft and one from the pre-season draft. Question is, who gets the chop?

[Rowie6]

Josh Thurgood is the only definate delisting.
Micheal Osborne,Tim Clarke,Richard Vandenberg and Chance Bateman are all of the same mould and i would say one or two of this group could be tradable or delisted,because there is no way all 4 can play in the same side with there kicking skills,Chances kicking skills are probably the best of this group.
Ben Dickson i think it is time for him to retire.
Matty Little i think has alot of upside to him and should be given another year to prove himself.Perfect replacement for Dicko.Matty Little came to the Hawks very lite in stature and probably a year behind Buddy,Roughie,Lewis.Murph and Young.Matty is also a beautiful kick for goal,as good as we have.
Zac Dawson,part of me is saying he is not up to it,but the other part is saying give him another year as we did with Tim Boyle.Zac did come to Hawthorn as an under aged player he is really the same age as Rougie Buddy and co of 2004.
I would only delist the minium 3 players and would go for the best available small crumbing forward available.To this date my delistings would be,
Josh Thurgood
Ben Dixon
Tim Clarke
and i would not trade,keep our list intact.

[MC_9]

Josh Thurgood is the only definate delisting.
Micheal Osborne,Tim Clarke,Richard Vandenberg and Chance Bateman are all of the same mould and i would say one or two of this group could be tradable or delisted,because there is no way all 4 can play in the same side with there kicking skills,Chances kicking skills are probably the best of this group.
Ben Dickson i think it is time for him to retire.
Matty Little i think has alot of upside to him and should be given another year to prove himself.Perfect replacement for Dicko.Matty Little came to the Hawks very lite in stature and probably a year behind Buddy,Roughie,Lewis.Murph and Young.Matty is also a beautiful kick for goal,as good as we have.
Zac Dawson,part of me is saying he is not up to it,but the other part is saying give him another year as we did with Tim Boyle.Zac did come to Hawthorn as an under aged player he is really the same age as Rougie Buddy and co of 2004.
I would only delist the minium 3 players and would go for the best available small crumbing forward available.To this date my delistings would be,
Josh Thurgood
Ben Dixon
Tim Clarke
and i would not trade,keep our list intact.

There is no way these blokes will be delisted.

I get the feeling the that Tim Clarke, is Clarko's love child. Clarke works so hard and runs all day, and is part of the leadership group, so i cant see him being delisted. However having said this i still dont rate clarke, and i cant see him in a our best 22, but at the club i get the feeling he is rated quite highly.

Dicko wont be delisted, however i feel his time is coming to an end. His form over the last few weeks has been very average. But he is really our only experienced forward.

The blokes that will be on the chopping bloke, will be the players who have been on the list a while, and have still not forced their way into the side.

Thurgood
Little

[Rowie6]

There is no way these blokes will be delisted.

I get the feeling the that Tim Clarke, is Clarko's love child. Clarke works so hard and runs all day, and is part of the leadership group, so i cant see him being delisted. However having said this i still dont rate clarke, and i cant see him in a our best 22, but at the club i get the feeling he is rated quite highly.

Dicko wont be delisted, however i feel his time is coming to an end. His form over the last few weeks has been very average. But he is really our only experienced forward.

The blokes that will be on the chopping bloke, will be the players who have been on the list a while, and have still not forced their way into the side.

Thurgood
Little
As i said i think Matty Little has alot of up side still in his progess,where Dicko has not and if not delisted should retire at seasons end.
I just think one of Tim Clarke,Vanders,Ozzie and Changa's will have to be either traded or delisted and i would go for Tim Clarke as he does not have the intensity that the other three have and his foot skills are about level with Ozzie and Vanders.I'm not saying they will be delisted it is who i think should be to give our young kids a chance to progress e.g Tim Boyle

[KingRich]

Either will Al Clarkson, H2F. He has huge wraps on My Man, Clint, who often makes my day. :).

Youngy is going alright. Reminds me of Lonie but far harder at the ball and an all round better player!