View Full Version : Lucas
BABYBOMBERS2007
6 Jun 2007, 01:16
Well we always hear that Essendon fall apart without Lloyd and we do. Im wondering that if Lucas was out, would we fall apart without him as he is one of our 2 main forwards, or is it just Lloyd cause he's Lloyd.
Yes, we would. He just hasn't missed any games in the last few years so you don't notice it. But even when he wasn't as good as he is now, our record was a lot worse without him.
bring it on
6 Jun 2007, 12:30
and by looking at this year alone... when he plays shi t we either lose or dont win by very much
Giggidy Giggidy
6 Jun 2007, 14:49
and by looking at this year alone... when he plays shi t we either lose or dont win by very much
Agree with his importance, but that comment is incorrect. We've only had one big win (over 6 goals) & he was very quiet, & two of his bigger contributions have been in losses (Kang & Blues).
Scotty is a fabulous footballer but he does not have Matty's presence on the field.
donsman4eva
6 Jun 2007, 16:41
Lucas is nowhere near as important to us as Hille, Lloyd and Fletcher.
Darealrath
6 Jun 2007, 17:30
Scotty is a fabulous footballer but he does not have Matty's presence on the field.
Well put.
Lucas is nowhere near as important to us as Hille, Lloyd and Fletcher.
No way, he is as important as any of them. In the matches he missed in 2002 and 2004 we only won 37% of the time. When he played in those years we won 61% of the time. In that period we relied on him a lot less too.
donsman4eva
6 Jun 2007, 18:09
And when Lloyd and Fletcher were injured last year, won only won 2 games, with Lucas still on fire and winning our goal kicking.
You can find stats to support any arguement, 83% of the population knows that :p
And when Lloyd and Fletcher were injured last year, won only won 2 games, with Lucas still on fire and winning our goal kicking.
You can find stats to support any arguement, 83% of the population knows that :p
You just contradicted your 1st statement with your second statement.
Ok in 2002 Lloyd missed 7 games straight after Lucas missed 5. In those 7 games we won 71% of the time.
donsman4eva
6 Jun 2007, 18:32
My point was that last year, even with Lucas playing well, we didnt win many games. Now this year, with Lloyd back in, and Fletcher in career best form, we are winning games. In the past 3 games we have won, Lucas has hardly been in great form, so you could say that he is less imporant to us that Lloyd and Fletcher. Also, in the past 2 games when it wastight at the edn, Hille stepped up while Lucas went missing. Take from that what you want.
Even with Lucas on average days we are still a far better team. He gives us structure and prevents Lloyd from getting double teamed.
Giving the example of last year does not show that Lucas isn't important, it shows that Lloyd is important.
My point was that last year, even with Lucas playing well, we didnt win many games. Now this year, with Lloyd back in, and Fletcher in career best form, we are winning games. In the past 3 games we have won, Lucas has hardly been in great form, so you could say that he is less imporant to us that Lloyd and Fletcher. Also, in the past 2 games when it wastight at the edn, Hille stepped up while Lucas went missing. Take from that what you want.
Lucas didn't go missng at the end of the Richmond game. He kicked a goal and gave off an assist for another in the last 5 minutes.
Lucas is nowhere near as important to us as Hille, Lloyd and Fletcher.
Dumb comment! Lucas pretty much won us the game against Adelaide of his own boot, he kicked 7 goals 5 that day. Super effort. And i think he plays a huge role in the team.
donsman4eva
6 Jun 2007, 21:11
Its not a dumb comment at all!. You take the other guys out of the team, our structure crumbles and we tend to lose. We lose Lucas and we just lose another avenue to goal. Lucas adds far less to our structure and therefore it wouldnt be as detrimental to us if we lost him.
Its not a dumb comment at all!. You take the other guys out of the team, our structure crumbles and we tend to lose. We lose Lucas and we just lose another avenue to goal. Lucas adds far less to our structure and therefore it wouldnt be as detrimental to us if we lost him.
Lucas is more than just an avenue to goal. He is a major part of our structure. His leads up to the wing release pressure from defence and clears room in the forward line. Lloyd kicks slightly more goals when Lucas is in the team because he gets less attention and because Lucas sets him up with long passes.
There is noone in the team that can fullfill this role anywhere near as well so we suffer if he is out.
donsman4eva
6 Jun 2007, 22:09
So you are saying that because he leads up to the wing our structure is better? Him leading up to the wing does make us better, but it doesnt help our structure. Lloyd being in helps us because we go more direct. Lucas doesnt do this BECAUSE he leads out wide. When Lloyd is out, Lucas still plays his own style of game, leading out wide.
When Lloyd is out Lucas plays closer to goal meaning we don't have a leading target on the wings. This causes us problems when coming out of defence.
donsman4eva
6 Jun 2007, 22:53
Correct. If Lucas was TRULEY important to our structure, his position wouldnt be comprimised whether Lloyd was playing or not. You dont see Lloyd playing further up the ground when Lucas is missing. That is beacuse Lloyd has his set position. Lucas is basically free to roam from FF to CHB.
Lucas compromises his role because FF is important, but he doesn't totally compromise it he plays as more of a hybrid forward. I am pretty sure Lloyd would assume this role if Lucas missed but that has barely happened as Lucas has only missed about 10 games in the last 7 years.
donsman4eva
6 Jun 2007, 23:18
If scotty goes out of the team, we have options to take his place that would leave Lloyd to play his natural game. They wouldnt be as good as scotty, but they could do the same role. No one can do the same as Lloyd because of the way the team plays around him. Other players lead out wide so Lloyd can lead straight, allowing the mids to play down the guts.
The reason Lucas is so important is because it is an important role and he does it alot better than anyone else in our team. Sure others can play the role of ruck but Hille is just so much better at it than the others. If we lose Lloyd we could put another player in that role but since we have noone else as good at the role our team suffers.
Giggidy Giggidy
7 Jun 2007, 10:02
If scotty goes out of the team, we have options to take his place that would leave Lloyd to play his natural game. They wouldnt be as good as scotty, but they could do the same role. No one can do the same as Lloyd because of the way the team plays around him. Other players lead out wide so Lloyd can lead straight, allowing the mids to play down the guts.
No Lucas isn't important to our structure. He's only a multiple B&F winning key position player who can dominate at either end of the ground & has had 3 50+ goal seasons before '07 (& 1 with 49). Players like that are a dime a dozen.
donsman4eva
7 Jun 2007, 18:50
No Lucas isn't important to our structure. He's only a multiple B&F winning key position player who can dominate at either end of the ground & has had 3 50+ goal seasons before '07 (& 1 with 49). Players like that are a dime a dozen.
Youve just contradicted yourself. If he was that important to our structure, he wouldnt be moved around the ground, no matter how good he is in those positions.
I am not saying he isnt a good player; he is a very good player. But in terms of importance to our team, I just feel that there are a couple of players ahead of him for various reasons.
Giggidy Giggidy
8 Jun 2007, 09:56
Youve just contradicted yourself. If he was that important to our structure, he wouldnt be moved around the ground, no matter how good he is in those positions.
I am not saying he isnt a good player; he is a very good player. But in terms of importance to our team, I just feel that there are a couple of players ahead of him for various reasons.
No contradiction, just said he can dominate at either end of the ground, but surely a 50 goal per year forward is crucial to a team's structure.
Lucas compromises his role because FF is important, but he doesn't totally compromise it he plays as more of a hybrid forward. I am pretty sure Lloyd would assume this role if Lucas missed but that has barely happened as Lucas has only missed about 10 games in the last 7 years.
It is interesting that originally Lloyd came to Essendon as a CHF and Lucas as a FF !
bomberstomake8
8 Jun 2007, 12:56
Lucas is more than just an avenue to goal. He is a major part of our structure. His leads up to the wing release pressure from defence and clears room in the forward line. Lloyd kicks slightly more goals when Lucas is in the team because he gets less attention and because Lucas sets him up with long passes.
There is noone in the team that can fullfill this role anywhere near as well so we suffer if he is out.
noone is saying we wont suffer without him, donsman was just saying we suffer more without lloyd or fletcher and i agree... lloyd does a lot more then just kick goals.. fletcher saves countless goals and without him no doubt our backline would fall appart against a decent forward line, if lucas is out of the team no doubt we will suffer, but lloyds leadership, attack on the ball and his unselfish play make him more important than lucas, and imo fletcher absent would be detrimental to our structure whereas lucas would be able to fill to an extent
is it just me or does donsman4ever talk utter chite....OMG the dribble that you come out with is astonshing ...keep the long winded explanations going champ, its brilliant....
Daytripper
8 Jun 2007, 13:14
Scoyty is probably our smartest player (in a footballing sense) in the team. The amount of little things he does like creating space and filling holes goes relatively unnoticed.
He is vital to our team.
donsman4eva
8 Jun 2007, 18:51
is it just me or does donsman4ever talk utter chite....OMG the dribble that you come out with is astonshing ...keep the long winded explanations going champ, its brilliant....
Glad you enjoy it :thumbsu: I just like to state my opinions. As soon as I start talking footy with my mates, they zone out. SO atleast on here I can talk without knowing whether people care or not. If you dont care, or think i talk "chite", then just ignore me. If you want to say something sensible, then by all means go ahead.