View Full Version : These players are no longer undroppable
1. Michael Braun - Too inconsistent. Floats in and out of the game as he pleases. Cant win a hardball to save himself atm and is behind Rosa for a spot on the wing
2. David Wirrpanda - Has he done anything at all in the past 6 weeks. Kind of just there. No use as a defender anymore. Hes too slow. He cant crumb a goal because he well in all honesty he has never tried to.
3. Mark Seaby - Only so long his performances can be accepted. Come finals time the need for two riuckmen diminishes I feel. Easily a candidate to be dropped. If we were to drop a tall nowadays he is the first to go without even blinking. Needs to improve in the centre square ruck contest. Sick of seeing him jump and land on his feet while the ball is still hanging in the air. Id MUCH prefer to play Graham and use Lynch as 2nd ruckmen with Staker at FF.
JKCeagle
9 Jun 2007, 12:14
Of the players mentioned I've been most disappointed with Wirra lately...it's just terrible for a player of his talent to go missing to such a degree. Remember when he was up with McLeod as the most damaging running half-back in the game?
Seabs is still pretty vital I feel, his work in the F50 is still very good and we can't afford to have Lynch/Staker etc rucking to give Cox a break if we aren't playing a 2nd ruckman.
And Braun...well he does seem to only play well when the team is handing out a beating, but to be honest he's never been one of our main matchwinners.
Juddyzthebest
9 Jun 2007, 12:25
out c.fletcher
in b.cousins
Fletcher has always been droppable. Gone for Saints game
Brett Jones also needs to learn how to spoil a footy. Dont know why just thought id add that
larrikin
9 Jun 2007, 12:34
I'm ordering a suicide watch for Embers.
I'm ordering a suicide watch for Embers.
ROFL...
I'm ordering a suicide watch for Embers.
Think this loss will have alot more far reaching effects then everyone thinks. It was a MUST win game for mine. If we cant beat Essendon after a 6 goal head start what chance do we have at AAMI and our other away games?
At this stage we will barely muster 2 more away wins for the rest of the year I feel. And thats being generous
Think this loss will have alot more far reaching effects then everyone thinks. It was a MUST win game for mine. If we cant beat Essendon after a 6 goal head start what chance do we have at AAMI and our other away games?
At this stage we will barely muster 2 away wins for the rest of the year I feel.
Probably the same chance you always have...
I thought Seaby was ok last nite. To be fair he did spend a lot of time on the bench.
Braun and Fletcher were quiet. Rojo wasnt actually that bad, i thought he was quite good. Wirra's turnover was costly though.
Probably the same chance you always have...
Nope. Teams can be found out. Maybe we were last night. We have 3 more games at that shithouse stadium. We wont win a single one of them .
larrikin
9 Jun 2007, 12:57
Nope. Teams can be found out. Maybe we were last night. We have 3 more games at that shithouse stadium. We wont win a single one of them .
It's worse than I thought
The white coats are coming
arfadunger
9 Jun 2007, 13:00
I thought Seaby was ok last nite. To be fair he did spend a lot of time on the bench.
He was OK in patches, however he got thumped in the square in the 3rd quarter, which is when Essendon started to get the momentum.
larrikin
9 Jun 2007, 13:02
He was OK in patches, however he got thumped in the square in the 3rd quarter, which is when Essendon started to get the momentum.
He's never anywhere near as good when Cox is playing. Don't know whether it's a mental thing
It's worse than I thought
The white coats are coming
Surely there valid points. All 3 have let us down big time this season. In a few weeks time BIG changes have to be made. Waters Nicoski Embley, then we still have Hansen Cousins + you lot all want Sampi back in. Thats 6 in. Who are those 6 out. Im bringing up some options.
Ill assume Fletcher Morton LeCras are 3. Wheres the other 3 coming from.
larrikin
9 Jun 2007, 13:07
No way Sampi will be back.
No way Sampi will be back.
Fair enough. Who are the other 2 that make way?. Is Wirrpanda really more important to the team then Hurn nowadays?
bassmanx
9 Jun 2007, 13:13
Fair enough. Who are the other 2 that make way?. Is Wirrpanda really more important to the team then Hurn nowadays?
Based on your other posts I'm surprised you're not throwing Bones's name into the hat.
Based on your other posts I'm surprised you're not throwing Bones's name into the hat.
Superb this season but he had a shocker last night. He can do better. Im his biggest fan but I can admit when he plays well and when he doesnt. Last night wasnt his day.
TheBigUnit
9 Jun 2007, 13:17
Superb this season but he had a shocker last night. He can do better. Im his biggest fan but I can admit when he plays well and when he doesnt. Last night wasnt his day.
Wouldn't say he had a shocker. He was very good on the rebound, but struggled defensively to cover his opponents.
Wouldn't say he had a shocker. He was very good on the rebound, but struggled defensively to cover his opponents.
Got it in one. Would hope he pays a bit more respect to his opponents in future. Hope he learned alot last night. Hes great in providing run but he needs to temper it and provide it at the right time.
mudgeathon
9 Jun 2007, 13:22
God, I love all these Knee Jerk reaction threads and posts
Yes we're struggling at the moment, falling across the line at the end of a race one might say, with the line been the week off
Some of the players aren't at 100%...the week off will do wonders
som of you lot need to 'harden the **** up'
God, I love all these Knee Jerk reaction threads and posts
Yes we're struggling at the moment, falling across the line at the end of a race one might say, with the line been the week off
Some of the players aren't at 100%...the week off will do wonders
som of you lot need to 'harden the **** up'
How is it knee jerk. Im basing this over the whole season and I GUARANTEE you 100% it would of been posted regardless if we happened to win by 1 point.
Big changes are soon to be made. Do we drop the inform youngsters like Rosa Priddis Hurn or do we let the underperforming senior players get another chance?
out c.fletcher
in b.cousins
He won't play this season. There, I've said it.
94_Eagles
9 Jun 2007, 13:52
He won't play this season. There, I've said it.
And you're wrong.
And Embers, I recall Wirra snapping a good goal against Richmond so he has crumbed at least one goal. Don't forget that awesome snap from the boundary against teh Pies.
And you're wrong.
And Embers, I recall Wirra snapping a good goal against Richmond so he has crumbed at least one goal. Don't forget that awesome snap from the boundary against teh Pies.
Hardly inspiring that you can only think of one :(. He is as flat as a tack atm.
grantyc77
9 Jun 2007, 14:02
[quote=Sean.;7784195]He won't play this season. There, I've said
I think he will definatly, bigger and better than ever, wait for his final series, it will be huge.
Think this loss will have alot more far reaching effects then everyone thinks. It was a MUST win game for mine. If we cant beat Essendon after a 6 goal head start what chance do we have at AAMI and our other away games?
At this stage we will barely muster 2 more away wins for the rest of the year I feel. And thats being generous
you're not the only one embers. i havent felt worried about my team this bad since our slump in 05. last year we performed superbly for most of the year. this year i think weve lost our touch. then again embley, cousins and nicoski are around the corner (hopefully). i think we may need to take a risk and throw sampi in as well. he would create something in our forward line. even though he doesnt score goals he has good defensive pressure in the forward line. put it this way, give sampi a shot, let him know its to boost his morale and give him a final chance. if he fails he may as well be delisted or traded.
Wirra needs a rest! badly...Hes carryign a niggling injury.
Personally, at the moment I don't think we have any players who we can let back into the team. So i don't see how this thread is relevant yet.
Our best 22, is the one that is playing at the moment (minus beau waters).
In 6-8 weeks time things will change with cousins, nikoski, butler (maybe), sampi (maybe), hansen, embley.. all pushing for spots. Till then, we need to put together a team that can start winning some away games if we want to be the minor premiers.
Tough ask with so many young guys.
Superb this season but he had a shocker last night. He can do better. Im his biggest fan but I can admit when he plays well and when he doesnt. Last night wasnt his day.
Bones had a shocker?? Disagree mate. Have a look at Game Day Live top 5 lists, he is in all of them except contested poss. He let a few through as a direct result of a few bad decisions but otherwise played well i thought.. he had a reasonable game. 16 effective kicks (most for WC), 7 inside 50s (equal most for WC), 3 defensive 50 rebounds (most for WC)... 27 possies total. He was actually one of our best..
Fletcher was HORRIBLE. Only 13 poss and 3 frees against, not to mention a few clangers that stood out for me at the time... went missing and worst game from him in a while..
Seaby actually wasn't too bad, IIRC he took a couple of good marks in the F50 when it counted that were important.
Wirra i think must be moved back to defense.. has been out of his element forward for a while now and i think the extended time he has been there is throwing him out. I dunno. Seems out of his element.
Everyone is calling for Cuz and saying we would have won with his influence, but you know what i reckon? We would have won if Embley was back in.. his influence and experience are vital and having him missing has left a massive gap in our side that i think has been largely underestimated. Can't wait till he's back.
Stop being such a pessimist Embers :) i'm actually of the opinion that we had a hard time putting it to sleep because we had a larger then normal ratio of youngsters in the side with hardly any experience. This is really the most youngsters we've had playing in the side for a while and while our youth is very talented and promising, they are of course inexperienced and a tad inconsistent, and less fit. Morton/Lecras/Brown all in the forward line. That is a shitload of inexperience in what is arguably the worst part of our lineup. It is lucky that the rest of our youngsters really stepped up (ie. Priddis, Rosa, Hurn, Bones i think had a good one and Selwood in career best form) otherwise result may have been worse. All things considered the side played pretty well.
Don't hit the panic button yet guys. As players come back from injury we will be even better then before because of the steep learning curve these young guys have had in the meantime.
Considering that all in all was a good result. We were VERY unlucky not to win or at least draw but all the young guys DEFINITELY learnt some important lessons. That will be so very important at the business end of the season.
West Coast 06
9 Jun 2007, 17:44
Bones had a shocker?? Disagree mate. Have a look at Game Day Live top 5 lists, he is in all of them except contested poss. He let a few through as a direct result of a few bad decisions but otherwise played well i thought.. he had a reasonable game. 16 effective kicks (most for WC), 7 inside 50s (equal most for WC), 3 defensive 50 rebounds (most for WC)... 27 possies total. He was actually one of our best..
Fletcher was HORRIBLE. Only 13 poss and 3 frees against, not to mention a few clangers that stood out for me at the time... went missing and worst game from him in a while..
Seaby actually wasn't too bad, IIRC he took a couple of good marks in the F50 when it counted that were important.
Wirra i think must be moved back to defense.. has been out of his element forward for a while now and i think the extended time he has been there is throwing him out. I dunno. Seems out of his element.
Everyone is calling for Cuz and saying we would have won with his influence, but you know what i reckon? We would have won if Embley was back in.. his influence and experience are vital and having him missing has left a massive gap in our side that i think has been largely underestimated. Can't wait till he's back.
Stop being such a pessimist Embers :) i'm actually of the opinion that we had a hard time putting it to sleep because we had a larger then normal ratio of youngsters in the side with hardly any experience. This is really the most youngsters we've had playing in the side for a while and while our youth is very talented and promising, they are of course inexperienced and a tad inconsistent, and less fit. Morton/Lecras/Brown all in the forward line. That is a shitload of inexperience in what is arguably the worst part of our lineup. It is lucky that the rest of our youngsters really stepped up (ie. Priddis, Rosa, Hurn, Bones i think had a good one and Selwood in career best form) otherwise result may have been worse. All things considered the side played pretty well.
Don't hit the panic button yet guys. As players come back from injury we will be even better then before because of the steep learning curve these young guys have had in the meantime.
Considering that all in all was a good result. We were VERY unlucky not to win or at least draw but all the young guys DEFINITELY learnt some important lessons. That will be so very important at the business end of the season.Good post, at least someone out there isn't slitting their wrists!
I would have to ask where you get off questioning the likes of Bones and Seaby Embers? They have been fantastic this season, they have played the roles asked of them fairly consistently.
The fact that we have so many inexperienced players on our team at the moment has to add to some of the results that we have had. They are still learning rapidly and have been doing a great job. If you dont think experience matters in pressure games, ask yourself why Sheedy dropped two inexperienced players from his winning team last week and brought in two very experienced players in their place. Having said that, it was probably our experienced players not giving them the support they needed that hurt us.
At the beginning of the year there were a few games I penciled in as losses before the season even started. Sydney at TS, Geelong at SS, Hawthorn at AU, Essendon at TD, Port at AAMI, one of Western Bulldogs or St Kilda at TD and at least one of the Derbies. I expected to lose probably seven games. We picked up the Sydney game and the first Derby and won all our home games all while having nowhere near our best 22 on the field.
Our team will get stronger after the break, with the inclusions that we can welcome back. Embley and Hansen are very big outs for us.
I also think being in finals for the last few seasons has taught the conditioning staff how to get the team up for the finals and they are getting better at it. We are becoming a bit more "Sydney" like this year in that we will time our run at the end.:thumbsu:
Go West Coast.
larrikin
9 Jun 2007, 17:46
Wouldn't say he had a shocker. He was very good on the rebound, but struggled defensively to cover his opponents.
Should never have been playing on either Lucas or Lloyd
Audacious
9 Jun 2007, 18:14
Brett Jones also needs to learn how to spoil a footy. Dont know why just thought id add that
because youve been on the biggest sore loser whinge since the adventures of Cuzz09? Whoopee he didnt spoil a Lloyd mark in the last quarter.
Just stfu already. Youre an embarrassment to all Eagles fans. :thumbsd:
because youve been on the biggest sore loser whinge since the adventures of Cuzz09? Whoopee he didnt spoil a Lloyd mark in the last quarter.
Just stfu already. Youre an embarrassment to all Eagles fans. :thumbsd:
This is the reason why Eaglesflyinghigh is ten times better then these shitheap of a boards. On these boards you cant criticise. On those boards you can. On these boards you tend to heap crap or pick a scapegoat ie. Chad Fletcher or pick on the youngsters. Everyone is allowed to praise and they also have the right to criticise too.
Should never have been playing on either Lucas or Lloyd
If he is playing on them then jump in front. He kept running behind them for some reason and got out of position. Bones is a star with his rebound last night but his defense was a little astray
seaby's fine... why not delist him - Essendon would love him
wce4premiership
9 Jun 2007, 19:03
Braun is undroppable in the coaches mind for atleast 3 more weeks.
Isandula
10 Jun 2007, 01:25
because youve been on the biggest sore loser whinge since the adventures of Cuzz09? Whoopee he didnt spoil a Lloyd mark in the last quarter.
Just stfu already. Youre an embarrassment to all Eagles fans. :thumbsd:
Who's strangely being quiet at the moment
larrikin
10 Jun 2007, 02:32
This is the reason why Eaglesflyinghigh is ten times better then these shitheap of a boards. On these boards you cant criticise. On those boards you can. On these boards you tend to heap crap or pick a scapegoat ie. Chad Fletcher or pick on the youngsters. Everyone is allowed to praise and they also have the right to criticise too.
Simple question then
Why are you here?
larrikin
10 Jun 2007, 02:33
If he is playing on them then jump in front. He kept running behind them for some reason and got out of position. Bones is a star with his rebound last night but his defense was a little astray
He was playing behind because that's how he plays the players of his size. You can't expect the bloke to change overnight because our coaches **** up.
I also love how, in the eyes of the ignorant, "getting in front" is all you have to do as a defender. There are really only two ways to play on a key forward.
One way is to stand side by side and try to stick with them on the lead. This is good because the defender gets 'touch' on the forward, and it's very hard for him to be lost on the lead...however since the forward gets to pull the trigger and chop and change direction, it usually means he gets atleast a step or two on the defender.
The other way is to stand about 10 metres in front of the opponent and face them. The 'pro's of this method are that you get a very good read of where the forward is going to lead and can very often cut off his leads and be a step or two ahead of him. The 'con's are that it's very easy to get very disoriented when glancing back at the play, and you never know exactly when the ball is about to be bombed in. This is a very out of favour technique and haven't seen many defenders use it for a long time.
Brett Jones, like pretty much every other defender in the league, uses the first method. And yes, this mean he'll more often than not be a step or two behind. But have you ever watched a single freaking AFL game? That's where every defender ever is 95% of the time.
"Just get in front! All your problems will be solved!"
Oh by the way, the worst place to stand as a defender is a metre or two infront of your opponent before he leads. You'll get lost every time. You get the worst of both worlds...you can't watch the player and the ball at the same time, and you don't have any touch on your opponent. But hey, at least you're in front, right?
I also love how, in the eyes of the ignorant, "getting in front" is all you have to do as a defender.
Sensible comments Frizzo :thumbsu:
And with a good lead and accurate delivery it is virtually impossible for a defender to get in front. How many times do you hear commentators say "Nothing you can do about that.."
Eagle_boy
10 Jun 2007, 17:26
Braun has been a disappointment for mine, goes ok at home but does very little in away games.....will not be dropped because of his previous good service in recent years.
halfbackflanker
12 Jun 2007, 03:06
As a former defender, I find myself in agreement with Frizzo. Playing exclusively in front leaves you very exposed. Staying side by side and slightly behind is the most efficient method, where hopefully you can stay with him on the lead or push him toward the flanks. It also avoids the indignity of having the pill kicked over your head into the waiting arms of your opponent - which is sure to get you dragged every time!
Anyway, I don't quite see the present situation in as bleak terms of some of the rest of you. I do remember the form slumps in 05 & 06, and I'm pretty sure there were worse signs there than at present. If we were to disregard the second half against the Bombers (as many of us I'm sure would only be too happy to do!), there was a lot to like. The fluency and skills there are still definitely first rate, some of the younger kids looked outstanding, and even a once out-of-favour guy like Staker looked like a potential matchwinner.
What's going wrong is simply the ability to maintain that over the entire course of a game. Our third quarters have been pretty poor in particular. In all our losses, our third quarters have shown us up - players have gone missing, skill errors abound, the delivery forward is poor and clearances have been well down. Centre clearances were a critical factor for the Bombers winning that game, and they seemed to dominate that area during the second half.
You can't blame the inexperienced players in the line-up for this - it's just a rule that the greatest weakness of having a young line-up is that it produces inconsistent performances over the course of games, or even of the season in its entirety. Like a lot of people in here, I have been a bit disappointed with some of the form and committment shown by some of the senior players - they should really be the guys standing up when things aren't all going our way, and some of them have been a little lacking.
There are some testing games ahead which will give us a clearer indication of how this team is travelling. Adelaide & Port at AAMI (which given the recent form of both sides looks a bit more promising), as well as the Bulldogs at TD will be some of the main ones. What's given us a chance is that many of the sides we'll be up against, and what we previously thought were huge threats, haven't exactly been firing so far this season. The Bulldogs are struggling, the two Adelaide teams are cooling off, Sydney looks shaky, the Saints are just hanging on and the Dockers seem to be writing the definitive book on inconsistency. The teams running 'hot' in fact are precisely the ones that have beaten us this year, so that hopefully provides some of the people in here with a bit of perspective. It'll be interesting to see how the landscape has changed by the time we get to meet the Bombers again, round 22 at Subi. I'll be looking forward to it.
i agree with whoever said to move wirra back to defense. if there's no match up then play him loose... his creativity is so integral. he definitely is struggling though, hope he bounces back after the break.
braun has always been one who goes missing. he has never been a top tier player for us, and his position should be looked at if he plays any more duds.
seaby i don't think we can afford to drop.
bzparkes
13 Jun 2007, 03:18
This thread belongs on the 'Knee-jerk reaction' board :rolleyes:
Frizzo beat me to it. Great post.
There is nothing more irritating than to sit at the footy or watch it in a pub and hear the know it all bloke yelling out stand in front.
I only ever made it to WAFL reserves level but even playing on players of that quality the only way I think you can effectively play on a forward is to stand goal side, touch and feel.
This means to stand in a direct line between them and the goals, as close as you can to them without infringing. As one coach described, if your bloke farts, you push it back in. A little concerning, but something you never forget.
This way a smart player cannot work you under the ball. If the midfield has the time to pinpoint a player on the lead then there is very little anyone is going to do about it at a reasonable level where the speed is sharp and hands crisp. What annoys me is when a player (Lloyd does it a lot) works someone under the ball 30m out and then can easily turn and run into an open goal.
I thought Bones did a good job on probably the benchmark forward in the comp.
since82eags
16 Jun 2007, 01:31
Braun definitely wirrpanda like for like with Nicoski is looking a distinct possibility and as for standin 1m in front look at the tapes of the weekend and see how many marks were taken on defenders in touch with forwards not many.
Braun definitely wirrpanda like for like with Nicoski is looking a distinct possibility and as for standin 1m in front look at the tapes of the weekend and see how many marks were taken on defenders in touch with forwards not many.
what
English please.
RhEF JC
19 Jun 2007, 18:29
what
English please.
Having extensively studied that post (including translating it into Greek, Arabic and Hebrew on the offchance there was a divine message there that only made sense in one language), I think s82e was trying to say
-Braun is no longer undroppable
-Wirrapunda may find himself dropped for Nicoski; and
-If you watch replays of the weekend (the weekend of our essendon game?) the defenders who kept touch were rarely beaten