View Full Version : Insights on insights from Round 11
Alot of people are saying alot of things on here and I think a few are a bit strange.
- Overall the mood seems positive for a loss, which I think is suitable (and i stress, for a loss). As someone so accurately put it, we were 7 points away from everyone saying how good we were. Its funny how everyones perceptions change so much depedning on a win/loss. Not me of course, I'm perfect.
- First of all, people are writing off Roo. What? Come on people, granted he looked very ordinary at the start but when he moved into the middle he started to look good and was a real presence, you could feel the side lift and our clearance work stepped up a notch. Then he copped a pretty big whack to the noggin, double vision, i imagine a pretty bloddy big headache (you or i would probably be dead but lets face it the guy who hit hims probably feeling it more than Mark "thats the most solid head in the afl" Riccuito :p) and people (not all crows supporters) are writing him off, saying he's finished, blah blah blah. What i saw yesterday from Roo, while far from convincing was promising.
- I've got to mention Kenny Mac (suprise suprise), some players just dont seem to get a good run from the fans. This relates to when i was actually at the ground but at one stage he missed one tackle, geelong moved the ball quickly up the ground, proceeded to kick at goals... as the balls in the air, some clown behind me says "thats your goal mcgregor!", likewise the miskick in the centre, one error and the crowds willing to lynch him, while other players seem to avoid it no matter what and get defended vehemently. Then I come on here and theres people saying he was useless in the first half, even though he N.Ablett had i think one kick the whole time he was on him (can anyone confirm that, Im not 100% sure). Whats going on here? This guy was one of our best yesterday but very little plaudits, esp given he is evidently not good enough to be in our best 22.
- Jericho, yes he is soft and I've been very disappointed with him after a couple of decent games playing looser easier roles, but he's not the only one. Scotty Welsh was disappointing. I have heard it said on numerous occasions how this guy can go missing for the whole match but when he gets a couple of goals, partnered with an easy 1 or 2 and suddenly hes a star. My biggest problem with him is that he's too sporadic in his chasing and intensity when he doesnt have then ball, maybe its just me but he doesnt always seem to want to do the hard things.
- Someone who usually does is Porplyzia, but he really struggled, this guy was defintely not fit, was completely out of sorts in what was the worst game i rekon ive seen him play, very unlike Porplyzia. Still tried hard at times but could tell he couldnt move properly. Nonetheless, how come this guy doesnt get a game more consistantly? Fitness is probably the answer i guess.
Everyones entitled to their own views and thats good but feel free to add your own to this list if theres something people are saying that just makes you scratch your head.
jenny61_99
11 Jun 2007, 13:20
I don't feel as gutted this week by the loss as I did last week - and that is because, on the whole, the team tried their hearts out.
I am probably one of the ones who think's Roo's time has come and gone. :eek: I felt this with Ben Hart too. My main concern is for the quality of life he will have AFTER footy if he pushes himself too much but I really think he is not up to AFL standard anymore.
I too think Kenny Mc did terrificly well yesterday considering it's his first game at this level for quite some time. Sure he made a couple of errors but he wasn't on his pat malone.
Porps was dreadful - I have huge wraps for this guy, but yesterday was not his day - in fact he was uncharacteristically bad. Again I too believe that Jericho and Welsh were not hard at it at all yesterday. Scotty used to be brilliant at applying pressure when the ball was in our forward 50 but I havent seen that for a while now. I was really disappointed in Jericho because he desparately needed to back up his last good game with another one - particularly one under pressure. I am not sure if he will get another chance.
macca23
11 Jun 2007, 13:25
Good summary of all those players, particularly that of K-Mac.
He pantsed Nathan Ablett to the point where Ablett was taken from the field - destroyed him. thern kicked 3 goals in a half up forward. I had him as my 6th best player for the day.
If Roo had stayed on, we would have won, 19 men or not. He made gettng the ball out of centre looke easy on a few occasions. My main concern with Roo is whether that knock to the head has jarred his back and damaged it again, rather than whether he had a bad head-ache.
Jericho. Pffft. I've had my fair say on powder puff in other threads.
Porps. Different category to the human marshmallow. Tried hard, but had a stinker. Happens to every player, and unfortunately he had his yesterday.
Good summary of all those players, particularly that of K-Mac.
He pantsed Nathan Ablett to the point where Ablett was taken from the field - destroyed him. thern kicked 3 goals in a half up forward. I had him as my 6th best player for the day.
If Roo had stayed on, we would have won, 19 men or not. He made gettng the ball out of centre looke easy on a few occasions. My main concern with Roo is whether that knock to the head has jarred his back and damaged it again, rather than whether he had a bad head-ache.
Jericho. Pffft. I've had my fair say on powder puff in other threads.
Porps. Different category to the human marshmallow. Tried hard, but had a stinker. Happens to every player, and unfortunately he had his yesterday.
Thats the feeling I came away with actually. Even so, at the game i had the feeling we were going to pinch it until the moment Porplyzia's kick was intercepted and Geelong goaled late in the last quarter, not blaming him thats just the instant my last hopes were snuffed (probably same as other crow fans).
Porps is a gun, he was just horribly off-colour yesterday. We know he can produce far far better than that. He will be back on track next week I'm sure.
I hope so, definitely one of my favourites, don't be disappointed if he's not though. Doesnt seem right at all and it could take him more than 1 week to get his injury ironed out.
Markthirtytwo
11 Jun 2007, 13:52
We have definately been found out. Most teams now have worked us out and crowded the corridor so we have reverted to team Ayres wide is the only road to goal.
We are not fit or we are taking players with small injuries and our skill rate has dropped considerably. We are getting shoved off the ball by bigger and hungrier opposition.
This is now up to the coaching staff to rectify the situation, but I feel the season is slipping us by and if we make the 8 we will be just making up the numbers.
Could be a good chance to play some younger players later in the year.
King Elvis
11 Jun 2007, 13:53
I am probably one of the ones who think's Roo's time has come and gone. :eek: I felt this with Ben Hart too. My main concern is for the quality of life he will have AFTER footy if he pushes himself too much but I really think he is not up to AFL standard anymore.
My 21 year old cousin plays first grade Rugby Union - he had a head clash the other week and blacked out, had a concussion and double vision, migraines for a few days. But it was a freak accident, doesn't mean he's done.
Roo is no different - he's very unlucky at the moment, but most of his injuries lately have been freakish ones, and in no way suggest that he's a spent force.
I hope so, definitely one of my favourites, don't be disappointed if he's not though. Doesnt seem right at all and it could take him more than 1 week to get his injury ironed out.
I saw him after the game and his index finger on his left hand was taped up and it didn't look too good. I'm not sure whether he sustained the injury during the game, but maybe that was casuing him some bother.
We have definately been found out. Most teams now have worked us out and crowded the corridor so we have reverted to team Ayres wide is the only road to goal.
We are not fit or we are taking players with small injuries and our skill rate has dropped considerably. We are getting shoved off the ball by bigger and hungrier opposition.
This is now up to the coaching staff to rectify the situation, but I feel the season is slipping us by and if we make the 8 we will be just making up the numbers.
Could be a good chance to play some younger players later in the year.
Turn that frown upside-down. Seriously though, its not all that bad, we'll be alright, if we can sneak into the top 4 we can do some damage on our day still. The first 22 rounds of the year are just a warm up for the real stuff dont forget.
King Elvis
11 Jun 2007, 13:57
Turn that frown upside-down. Seriously though, its not all that bad, we'll be alright, if we can sneak into the top 4 we can do some damage on our day still. The first 22 rounds of the year are just a warm up for the real stuff dont forget.
Yep, kicking arse all season for the last two years left us spent and injured for the Finals series.
Craigy, the genius, is obviously making sure we peak at the right time this year.
Much like the Aussie Cricket team - we smashed everyone in the World Cup, so the Chap/Hadlee trophy was forgotten very quickly.
Yep, kicking arse all season for the last two years left us spent and injured for the Finals series.
Craigy, the genius, is obviously making sure we peak at the right time this year.
Much like the Aussie Cricket team - we smashed everyone in the World Cup, so the Chap/Hadlee trophy was forgotten very quickly.
Not sure if id go so far to say its a deliberate ploy but you could be around the mark here. All im really trying to say is that all is not lost, but we've gotta be within striking distance of the top 4 come round 20, just gotta keep quietly putting the wins away.
jenny61_99
11 Jun 2007, 18:03
My 21 year old cousin plays first grade Rugby Union - he had a head clash the other week and blacked out, had a concussion and double vision, migraines for a few days. But it was a freak accident, doesn't mean he's done.
Roo is no different - he's very unlucky at the moment, but most of his injuries lately have been freakish ones, and in no way suggest that he's a spent force.
I am not talking about the blurred vision. I am talking about the fact that he hasn't got "IT" anymore - or at least that's the very bad feeling I have every time I see him try to play. He tries his heart out, but I just don't think his body can cope with it any more. Hope I am wrong...
Kane McGoodwin
11 Jun 2007, 18:20
Roo is no different - he's very unlucky at the moment, but most of his injuries lately have been freakish ones, and in no way suggest that he's a spent force.
That's how I see it too. If Roo hadn't been crunched high, there wouldn't be any talk now of him being finished.
I reckon the premiership race is wide open & certainly flags are not won in June ... but the key is tha we finish top-4, if we are any chance of winning the flag. We are a good chance as long as we start getting more players back than losing to injury.
That's how I see it too. If Roo hadn't been crunched high, there wouldn't be any talk now of him being finished.
I reckon the premiership race is wide open & certainly flags are not won in June ... but the key is tha we finish top-4, if we are any chance of winning the flag. We are a good chance as long as we start getting more players back than losing to injury.
Yep spot on for me, and dont worry Roo has still got it.
Carl Spackler
11 Jun 2007, 19:31
Yep spot on for me, and dont worry Roo has still got it.
Roo used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what he's with isn't it, and what's "it" seems weird and scary to him.
I really am starting to doubt that he will be able to stay on the park for any length of time. Particularly with us demanding a tough, accountable, one-on-one style game plan. Even in the second half of last season he copped a few seemingly innocuous bumps that seemed to effect him quite badly. The body is not as resilient as it once was. I hope I'm wrong but I can't see him playing a significant role in the second half of this season. The demands of the modern game simply do not allow you to 'nurse' an older player in a forward pocket or off the bench any more. James Hird is an absolute freak.
Use the force Luke
11 Jun 2007, 19:46
I am not talking about the blurred vision. I am talking about the fact that he hasn't got "IT" anymore - or at least that's the very bad feeling I have every time I see him try to play. He tries his heart out, but I just don't think his body can cope with it any more. Hope I am wrong...
I'd love to know what you base this theory on Jenny. Have you come to this conclusion because he hasnt been playing or because you believe his form over a certain period of time has not been what you consider of a high enough standard?:confused:
Its a bit of a strange assertion and I'd love to know how you came up with it.:confused:
CrowMagnum
11 Jun 2007, 19:46
I am not talking about the blurred vision. I am talking about the fact that he hasn't got "IT" anymore - or at least that's the very bad feeling I have every time I see him try to play. He tries his heart out, but I just don't think his body can cope with it any more. Hope I am wrong...
I thought he was working his way back nicely into the pace of the game and looking like getting "it" back when he copped the blow to the head. Probably cost us the match in the end.
Use the force Luke
11 Jun 2007, 19:52
I am not talking about the blurred vision. I am talking about the fact that he hasn't got "IT" anymore - or at least that's the very bad feeling I have every time I see him try to play. He tries his heart out, but I just don't think his body can cope with it any more. Hope I am wrong...
Jenny you need to go and review the following thread, just to remind youself what everyone was saying after his first game in 9 months. Not too many people seemed to think he didnt have "it".
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=334076
He got knocked out, that can happen to any player on the park.
Catsace
11 Jun 2007, 19:54
Roo used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what he's with isn't it, and what's "it" seems weird and scary to him.
I really am starting to doubt that he will be able to stay on the park for any length of time. Particularly with us demanding a tough, accountable, one-on-one style game plan. Even in the second half of last season he copped a few seemingly innocuous bumps that seemed to effect him quite badly. The body is not as resilient as it once was. I hope I'm wrong but I can't see him playing a significant role in the second half of this season. The demands of the modern game simply do not allow you to 'nurse' an older player in a forward pocket or off the bench any more. James Hird is an absolute freak.
The 'It' quote is straight from the wisdom of Abraham Simpson:D THat was in the context of of Homer's ageing and his predilection for 70's music that was no longer the big thing that Homer has blissfully thought it was for 20 years!!
Ricciuto is a superstar, as another thread mentioned, he's a Brownlow Medallist, premiership player and just about everything else. He should be able to play a forward pocket sort of role and kick 2-3 a week.
jenny61_99
11 Jun 2007, 22:43
Jenny you need to go and review the following thread, just to remind youself what everyone was saying after his first game in 9 months. Not too many people seemed to think he didnt have "it".
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=334076
He got knocked out, that can happen to any player on the park.
I appreciate other's have differing views and as I said, I hope I am wrong. But I have felt this for the last 18 months. I believed he was carrying a groin injury for the majority of last year (that was never acknowledged) and it limited his ability to move as effectively as he used to. His turning circle was wider than the Queen Mary. He then got parvo-virus, followed by the bulging disc in his spine.
My beliefs wont be popular because he is the "beloved" one to most and our Captain to boot and everybody wants our legends to go on forever. Sadly, they can't. Soon we will face life without Roo, Edwards, Goody and McLeod. We all wish for them to be at their peak... but we all know that the older they get, the less likely that is.
Markthirtytwo
12 Jun 2007, 10:10
I appreciate other's have differing views and as I said, I hope I am wrong. But I have felt this for the last 18 months. I believed he was carrying a groin injury for the majority of last year (that was never acknowledged) and it limited his ability to move as effectively as he used to. His turning circle was wider than the Queen Mary. He then got parvo-virus, followed by the bulging disc in his spine.
My beliefs wont be popular because he is the "beloved" one to most and our Captain to boot and everybody wants our legends to go on forever. Sadly, they can't. Soon we will face life without Roo, Edwards, Goody and McLeod. We all wish for them to be at their peak... but we all know that the older they get, the less likely that is.
Let's not get on the port "kick tredders while he's down" thread please.
jenny61_99
12 Jun 2007, 12:53
Let's not get on the port "kick tredders while he's down" thread please.
I don't think that's what I am doing. The man has been an out and out Champion, no doubt about it. But I call it like I see it and I won't blow smoke up anyones butt just because of who they are. He has been restricted for the last 18 months for whatever reason. I personally don't think he will ever regain the form that he had previously but more than happy to be proved wrong. I'd be happy for him to sit in the forward pocket and bag a couple every week if he is capable of it. But we have to be really careful that we aren't just playing him because of who he is. With the trouble we are presently facing with injuries, we need to make sure we are playing fully fit players or we will be done over.
And I think Roo really needs to assess what life after footy will offer him because unfortunately, it is drawing closer as every week passes.:(
Kickin_Goals
13 Jun 2007, 05:07
It's funny really, pretty sure you abuse Drummond for this type of opinion.
Fortunately Riccuito and his own feeling is much more telling to his play then yours.
And I hope I'm wrong but I'm choosing to feel this and looking for this for a long time now is also another lovely little projection.
/me hands jenny her medicine.
He played all but 10 minutes his first game back normally he would have nailed his set shots but then who was kicking for goals well that week?
Shirley, Welsh, Robertson?
Oh there were a couple of huge long goals, one from neitz as the seeler from a set shot and one from another guy of of one step can't fathom the fella's name right now who was that again hmmm?
Geelong once again in the thick of it till Rooke decided to hip and shoulder him in the top of the head.
Have a nice look at Rooke, he is the most solidly built cat on the field.
He is there guy who throws people about but who is contesting possession Ricciuto so he has his head over the ball and gets collected.
What exactly is it you want from a guy who hasn't been playing at any level untill just recently?
jenny61_99
13 Jun 2007, 08:26
It's funny really, pretty sure you abuse Drummond for this type of opinion.
The difference between Drummond and I is style. ;) Seriously, Drummond is purely negative - no glimmer of hope whatsoever. And he does it out of hate (or at least that is what his opinions come across as). I don't hate any player. I believe every single one of our guys comes out and tries. We all have off days but surely shouldn't be crucified when we do! I am not crucifying Roo... I am stating an opinion (that clearly won't be popular with the masses) that I think his best is passed. Ive sat and listened for the last 18 months people saying "When Roo gets back to his best"... "When he's fit"... etc etc. Now he may prove me wrong (and herein lies the difference between Drummond and me) and I honestly hope he does. I haven't bagged Roo nor do i disrespect his valiant efforts to be playing. I just want what's best for him and the Club.
Markthirtytwo
13 Jun 2007, 09:30
And I think Roo really needs to assess what life after footy will offer him because unfortunately, it is drawing closer as every week passes.:(
He doesn't have to think too hard about that.
He will be a multi millionaire hotelier. :thumbsu:
Markthirtytwo
13 Jun 2007, 09:32
I don't think that's what I am doing. The man has been an out and out Champion, no doubt about it. But I call it like I see it and I won't blow smoke up anyones butt just because of who they are. He has been restricted for the last 18 months for whatever reason. I personally don't think he will ever regain the form that he had previously but more than happy to be proved wrong. I'd be happy for him to sit in the forward pocket and bag a couple every week if he is capable of it. But we have to be really careful that we aren't just playing him because of who he is. With the trouble we are presently facing with injuries, we need to make sure we are playing fully fit players or we will be done over.
No but there are others who given the opportunity will. I still believe he has something to offer the club. He will hand over the captaincy next year and wants to be on hand to offer advice if asked. And who wouldn't?