Hawthorn listed players at BH 2007 season

[hawkstars]

We no longer have to rush young players into the AFL before they are ready. That's a luxury we haven't had in recent years. Right now our depth is good. Unless Thorp absolutely stars for Box Hill in the second half of the year (and someone at senior level - say Roughhead) struggles to cement their spot, I doubt we'll see another debut this season.

I understand where you are coming from. But, I would rather see a youngster KPP from Box Hill play than a senior with lots of matches who can't get a touch anyway, be playing. ie/ Osbourne, Smith, Dixon etc. Get off the Roughead train and if anyone deserves to be dropped it's one of the above.

[Binxy]

Did you know that Michael Tuck played over 50 games in the reserves before he played a senior ga..........only kidding. :p

[Davo23]

Did you know that Michael Tuck played over 50 games in the reserves before he played a senior ga..........only kidding. :p


Michael Tuck played 49 reserve games.

Robert Dipierdomenico played 99 reserve games.


The BigFooty website back then obviously didn't have any say in team selection.


Davo23

[Hodge2Franklin]

Did you know that Michael Tuck played over 50 games in the reserves before he played a senior ga..........only kidding. :p

:D:D:D:thumbsu:

[Hawk71]

Did Beau Muston play today?? If so, how did he go??

named in the best.

BEST:
Box Hill Hawks: Renouf Shore Smith Muston Murphy Tuck

[Peter Knights]

Nice to see Thorpe, Renouf and Little in the goals.

Am still puzzled by Little's absence from the senior team.

Seems to know where the goals are and impossible to tell if he could make the grade if he never gets a chance.

Saw the game. Thorpe started well, but needs a few more runs under his belt. Renouf impressed in patches and will be able to play forward or back as well as the ruck. Couldn't undertand at stages that they had Renouf and McEntee playing on the wing. Quite amazing to say the least. Seen Little a few times now and will unfortuantely not be give the chance to make the next step. He is a pretty stock standard forward with no tricks in his bag. Muston IMO was very good. Reminds me of Dipper a bit in the way he goes about it. A lot to like about the kid. Kennedy too slow and have real reservations about his ability to step up. Murphy good, Dawson was also good. Dowler did some good things but looks like he lacks confidence. Thurgood played up forward for three quarters. Did well early but lacked a bit of confidence with his kicking. Was moved up back in the last quarter but was over run by the avalanche of goals. Gibson was fair.

In the Reserves game Collins played half quarters and would have picked up 12-14. Suckling was excellent and easily best... probably had 25-30 possesions.

Ground surface was terrible and affected play.

[RustyHawk]

Saw the game. Thorpe started well, but needs a few more runs under his belt. Renouf impressed in patches and will be able to play forward or back as well as the ruck. Couldn't undertand at stages that they had Renouf and McEntee playing on the wing. Quite amazing to say the least. Seen Little a few times now and will unfortuantely not be give the chance to make the next step. He is a pretty stock standard forward with no tricks in his bag. Muston IMO was very good. Reminds me of Dipper a bit in the way he goes about it. A lot to like about the kid. Kennedy too slow and have real reservations about his ability to step up. Murphy good, Dawson was also good. Dowler did some good things but looks like he lacks confidence. Thurgood played up forward for three quarters. Did well early but lacked a bit of confidence with his kicking. Was moved up back in the last quarter but was over run by the avalanche of goals. Gibson was fair.

In the Reserves game Collins played half quarters and would have picked up 12-14. Suckling was excellent and easily best... probably had 25-30 possesions.

Ground surface was terrible and affected play.

Welcome to the board Peter :thumbsu: and thank you for your report, hope to see many more posts as I always love to hear something good about Musto.

ps: How was the weather? Did it get above minus 5?

Cheers

[Hodge2Franklin]

Saw the game. Thorpe started well, but needs a few more runs under his belt. Renouf impressed in patches and will be able to play forward or back as well as the ruck. Couldn't undertand at stages that they had Renouf and McEntee playing on the wing. Quite amazing to say the least. Seen Little a few times now and will unfortuantely not be give the chance to make the next step. He is a pretty stock standard forward with no tricks in his bag. Muston IMO was very good. Reminds me of Dipper a bit in the way he goes about it. A lot to like about the kid. Kennedy too slow and have real reservations about his ability to step up. Murphy good, Dawson was also good. Dowler did some good things but looks like he lacks confidence. Thurgood played up forward for three quarters. Did well early but lacked a bit of confidence with his kicking. Was moved up back in the last quarter but was over run by the avalanche of goals. Gibson was fair.

In the Reserves game Collins played half quarters and would have picked up 12-14. Suckling was excellent and easily best... probably had 25-30 possesions.

Ground surface was terrible and affected play.

Knightsy in my opinion Renouf is being fast tracked for a debut and being trown left and right at Box Hill under the request of Clarko.:)

[Choota]

I understand where you are coming from. But, I would rather see a youngster KPP from Box Hill play than a senior with lots of matches who can't get a touch anyway, be playing. ie/ Osbourne, Smith, Dixon etc. Get off the Roughead train and if anyone deserves to be dropped it's one of the above.
As would I, but right now we're aiming for the finals. Experience and strong bodies are needed against the best teams. I wouldn't have liked to see a debutant against Sydney on the weekend. We have the youngest side in the AFL. Guys like Smith, Vandenberg and Dixon (he's not in our best 22 IMO) are far from our best players these days but they are strong and experienced and i'd rather see them playing than an underprepared debutant right now. From what I gather, Thorp started well today but faded. Not ready yet and certainly not ready to force players out of a side that is currently top 4.

If we do see a change this weekend, don't be surprised if Zac Dawson gets a recall, possibly in place of Osborne. Carlton play very tall up front and Dawson has been very consistent at Box Hill.

[Blasé]

I don't understand your point at all: does Box Hill need to win for players to develop?

Does Dowler need to be hit lace-up with worm-burning passes to be a better footballer? Or does he improve more by having to fight for the ball?

Just by playing, they are developing - any win by Box hill is a bonus.


Davo23

i'm afraid that the fact they're just playing is not enough.
on your theory, they could be playing in any league and they're developing.

would you just as much like them playing for the bh 2nds?

this christensen is a crap coach. he was brought in because he's supposedly good at developing youth because he was coach of the geelong falcons. why didn't they just appoint him as a staff member who specialises in developing youth, rather than have him coach poorly for bh?

i can't see how hawk players develop in a losing environment, where we're getting smashed most of the time.

surely you can see that it is easier considering promoting players to the snrs when they played well in a winning team, rather than in a team that got smashed.

thorpe was closer to selection when he kicked 6 goals against geelong, than kicking 3 goals when smashed today.

[cschreuder61]

thorpe was closer to selection when he kicked 6 goals against geelong, than kicking 3 goals when smashed today.

Why?

[Roughie]

I think Box Hill Hawks getting smashed is the reason to McGlynns form! I am sure as shit he doesnt want to play in the seconds and get a thumping every week.

It seems Box Hill has no real game plan and the disposal is poor! The truth is players would develop better in a more sucessful team. If the disposal is 2nd rate and you cant get any clean touch of the ball your not going to be able to work on certain facets of the game, and its unfortunate because of this.

You could only wonder if Box Hill's standards were better, if Dowler would touch the ball alot more because of it? And we could see his confidence grow.

I guess we will never know untill Box Hill starts winning a few

[Hodge2Franklin]

I think Box Hill Hawks getting smashed is the reason to McGlynns form! I am sure as shit he doesnt want to play in the seconds and get a thumping every week.

It seems Box Hill has no real game plan and the disposal is poor! The truth is players would develop better in a more sucessful team. If the disposal is 2nd rate and you cant get any clean touch of the ball your not going to be able to work on certain facets of the game, and its unfortunate because of this.

You could only wonder if Box Hill's standards were better, if Dowler would touch the ball alot more because of it? And we could see his confidence grow.

I guess we will never know untill Box Hill starts winning a few

I love some of the posters on here. You're spot on Roughie :thumbsu:

[Roughie]

I love some of the posters on here. You're spot on Roughie :thumbsu:

Aww I feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :D :p You dont go to bad your self H2F

[Delicate Des]

Just got a text from a mate at the game. Thorp has kicked the first two goals for Box Hill.
His second goal came from a good strong contested mark, and the kick was an absolute beauty, 45 degrees and went every bit of sixty metres. Very impressive. The report was a bit unfortunate and I had to look to see it wasn't Goldspink in the No 8 uniform. Very officious and technical ump who wanted to be seen, rather than umpire. Thorpe should get off. Can't say the same for the thug who belted Moss!!

[Davo23]

i'm afraid that the fact they're just playing is not enough.
on your theory, they could be playing in any league and they're developing.

would you just as much like them playing for the bh 2nds?



Ha ha, now you've gone on off track completely.
What a load of irrelevant codswallop: they are playing for Box Hill Firsts in the VFL - who suggested that they play somewhere else?

They are getting game time against other teams - they will develop as they play more games. So what if they lose - they can learn valuable lessons from losses.

And your comments on Damien Christensen show no class at all.


Dav23

[Peter Knights]

Knightsy in my opinion Renouf is being fast tracked for a debut and being trown left and right at Box Hill under the request of Clarko.:) Thing I like about Renouf is that he has a second and third effort. Just depends on where he is with his development. Would not be ready to ruck and would have to probably play up back which might be a big ask at this stage. Most of the ruck work was done by Smith.

[thatswhatimtalkinabout]

Seems to me that if Box Hill is performing badly, our listed players might have something to do with that as we generally supply near on half the team.

[Londoner86]

Michael Tuck played 49 reserve games.

Robert Dipierdomenico played 99 reserve games.


The BigFooty website back then obviously didn't have any say in team selection.




Well said, Davo23!

People forget that some of our greatest players spent whole seasons in the seconds before getting a call up. It was a chance to learn the game properly, and to earn your spot.

Tucky played more than 2 seasons in the seconds.
Dipper had more than 4!


LH86

[Blasé]

Ha ha, now you've gone on off track completely.
What a load of irrelevant codswallop: they are playing for Box Hill Firsts in the VFL - who suggested that they play somewhere else?

They are getting game time against other teams - they will develop as they play more games. So what if they lose - they can learn valuable lessons from losses.

And your comments on Damien Christensen show no class at all.

Dav23

i wish i were as classy as you. what, are you in love with christensen?

i didn't say that they play for bh 2nds, i was highlighting that it matters that they're playing good positive footy in the second best comp. not playing trash football learning how to get smashed.

yes, players can learn something from losing.
much, as hawthorn lost in a close one this week against good opposition.
very little, getting thrashed by a crap opponent such as bendigo.

from getting thrashed repeatadly, as bh are:
-they learn that losing is not fun
-football is not fun
-they learn that it can become demoralising
-they learn to lose confidence
-they learn to disrespect the coach

boy, you're right, they don't learn nothing from winning!
i reckon that richmond is on the steepest learning curve possible!
perhaps they may go down as the most learned football players in history, without winning a game.

hardy ha, ha, ha!

[Londoner86]

iyes, players can learn something from losing.
much, as hawthorn lost in a close one this week against good opposition.
very little, getting thrashed by a crap opponent such as bendigo.

!


Gee, Blase you're going backwards fast. What is the connection between Box Hill winning and our players being developed? They are getting games, they are developing physically, and they are playing in a lower level to allow them to learn while playing against lower quality opposition.

Sure, we all want Box Hill to win, but I see no correlation between the current state of the team, and their ability to develop.

After all, what have Hodge, Mitchell, Brown & others done since 2002, but lose regularly, often and badly. And Franklin, Lewis & Roughhead have survived 3 years of miserable losses.

And now they are winning


LH86

[The Messenger]

I was at the game yesterday and the problem doesn't lie in the Box Hill players, the reason we lose is because our kids from Hawthorn aren't as strong as people think. Nick Smith, Kris Shore, Richie Eva, Johnny Holmes, Matty Ball all play very good games so I don't know how people can blame BH for not recruiting well or not holding up there end.

Zac was pants by Bradley, Thorp got smashed by Johns, Thurgood was beaten by Rosa, Murphy and Kennedy were terrible. That's why we lost our kids just aren't up to playing consistent footy, there fitness is not good enough and there bodies aren't big enough.

[Albo's opinion]

I was at the game yesterday and the problem doesn't lie in the Box Hill players, the reason we lose is because our kids from Hawthorn aren't as strong as people think. Nick Smith, Kris Shore, Richie Eva, Johnny Holmes, Matty Ball all play very good games so I don't know how people can blame BH for not recruiting well or not holding up there end.

Zac was pants by Bradley, Thorp got smashed by Johns, Thurgood was beaten by Rosa, Murphy and Kennedy were terrible. That's why we lost our kids just aren't up to playing consistent footy, there fitness is not good enough and there bodies aren't big enough.
I know the saying says that we shouldn't shoot you but.....
were there any positives in your opinion messenger>?

[The Messenger]

I know the saying says that we shouldn't shoot you but.....
were there any positives in your opinion messenger>?

Muston's form was a big positive, played out of a back pocket and provided a lot of dash out of defence. Dowler was good until half time, presented well and has great finishing skills when he gets the ball. Cloke gave him a touch up when he went to the back half but was solid early.

McEntee is doing a servicable job in the ruck and Thorp and Renouf both pulled down some really solid marks. There are always positives it's just some days you need to look a little harder.

[mudshake]

I find this all very interesting. I've watched a lot of BH games over the last few years & have often thought that many of the Hawthorn listed players are holding something back. It almost feels as though they don't want to get hurt for fear of not getting that "call up". I'm not suggesting for one minute that theyre not trying cos theyd be mad not to but with all the hype around them I just dont seem to see much that makes them stand out from the others. I hope I'm wrong but on many occasions Hawthorn players seem to stand back & let the BH players do the in & under dirty work. Of course there always exceptions & certainly Josh Thurgood is one but he's a crazy man anyway. I also sometimes wonder how the Best On is picked. It always seems to be loaded with Hawthorn players as if trying to prove something & many times I have felt BH players have been stooged. One example from yesterday was Kristan Height. Stooged major league.

[quiksilver83]

sounds like a pretty good summary messenger... kids need time to hit their straps.... muston does have a lot of dash though
thorp looks pretty good at times too

[GNCLongJack]

I find this all very interesting. I've watched a lot of BH games over the last few years & have often thought that many of the Hawthorn listed players are holding something back. It almost feels as though they don't want to get hurt for fear of not getting that "call up". I'm not suggesting for one minute that theyre not trying cos theyd be mad not to but with all the hype around them I just dont seem to see much that makes them stand out from the others. I hope I'm wrong but on many occasions Hawthorn players seem to stand back & let the BH players do the in & under dirty work. Of course there always exceptions & certainly Josh Thurgood is one but he's a crazy man anyway. I also sometimes wonder how the Best On is picked. It always seems to be loaded with Hawthorn players as if trying to prove something & many times I have felt BH players have been stooged. One example from yesterday was Kristan Height. Stooged major league.I don't often agree with the media's "best", for the same reasons that it denies the BH lads. Mebbe they don't recognise them. Even Christo has learned now that he needs to put the fervour and guts of the BH list like Breese, Johnson, Eva, Buchanan and Hassett, put that type of mateship in the centre to help out Bally and Kristan. Leave the Hawthorn guys to play fringe or spine.

[ilikegreentea]

Can anyone gives us an update on these two.


Didnt see the first quarter of the ressies but saw the rest. Suckling didnt have much impact at all. Collins however looked super in the 3rd quarter. Probably took half a dozen marks and had he kicked straight could have bagged 3 or 4 or in that quarter alone. He didnt have much of it in the second quarter but his presentation was great but the boys just didnt seem to be looking for him, they did in the 3rd and it payed dividends.

He didnt play the last quarter which i suggest may have been planned but he do look like he was favouring one leg, i believe he had a foot problem in the first half of the year.

This kid is a super talent, hopefully he stays fit as he could be an enormous find for us in the next couple of years.

Sucklings skills though are also a class above in our ressies.

[HawksRadar]

Agree with Ilikegreentea. Suckling though has been good in the other games that I have seen. He was up forward last week for most of the game and found it hard to get into the game. Was better when he went to the backline later in the game.

[TheWatcher]

Not much is said about this guy but he has been working hard and we are starting to see the improvements.

Thoughts on McEntee for next year? We all know ruck stocks at other clubs are a bit lean.....

[The Messenger]

Personally I would love to see McEntee elevated at the end of the year rather than going down the draft route to sure up our stocks. Every club needs a minimum of 4 rucks and preferably 5. The ruck is the most physically challenging positions on the ground and it's not unusual to see 2 or 3 ruckman injured at any one time. Rucks take a long time to develop and we have already put 2 years into McEntee and he is showing really good signs at BH, he has a great leap and works hard when the ball is on the ground. He just needs to develop his contested marking and winning a bit more footy around the ground but I think he looks great. There are lots of rucks available this year in the draft but there are also lots of clubs looking for ruckman (Rich, Carl, StK, WC, Coll, Melb) which will elevate there draft position, which means we would need to use a high pick to get a good one. I think one of these clubs would snap McEntee up if we did not elevate him as well.

That would give us Campbell (doing the job now but would be a No. 2 ruckman in a premiership team), Taylor (our current No.2 but again probably will only be cover in a premiership team), Bailey (jury is out but if the knee holds up could become the No.1 we are looking for), Renouf (could be anything and is very flexible which is handy in a ruck) and McEntee who like I said looks good and I think will be our No.1 tap ruckman at the club in a few years (espeaically good in at the centre bounce).

[FriarTuck]

Reckon we will elevate him. This means we have to bump at least four which may be an issue.

The only thing McEntee does not do well is his field positioning. Hence he does not get to as many contests as he should. This is something that can be learnt.

If we off load him he will be snaffled up by Carton, Saints, Tigs, Pies, Demons even the bummers need rucks.

Big Max will need a fair recovery time, Renouf is still a boy. McEntee at the least is good insurance.

[TheWatcher]

Thanks for the feedback

[mulhollanddrive]

last year we didnt have any ruckmen we could see coming through, now we have 2 that truely belong, and 3 great prospects.

Hopefully this could allow Renouf to play key defence in the future.

[TheWatcher]

With regards to Renouf, do you think he may lack enough pace to be a ruckman?

[Roughie]

With regards to Renouf, do you think he may lack enough pace to be a ruckman?

Lack pace for a ruckman? Alot of fans here think he has enough pace to be a CHB!

[HawksRadar]

With regards to Renouf, do you think he may lack enough pace to be a ruckman?
Would have thought Renouf was quicker than McEntee. McEntee better ruckman at this stage of their development. Renouf better around the ground.

[TheWatcher]

Thought McEntee set a 20m sprint record at the draft camp

[Rexcellent]

Thought McEntee set a 20m sprint record at the draft camp

im not sure about a record...

[Badga]

Thought McEntee set a 20m sprint record at the draft camp

2.95 seconds. Not sure about a record but really quick for a ruckman