Richmond predicted/desired trades

[tiges4ever]

What are your Richmond predicted/desired trades? (be realistic)

[tigers71]

1 Newman - stays 11 Bowden.J - stays
2 Gaspar- retired 12 Richo - stays
3 Deledio- stays 13 Knobel- delisting
4 Raines- stays 14 Polo - stays
5 Simmonds - stays 15 Pettifer - deal could be organised/stay
6 Polak - stays 16 Bowden.P - stay/possible delisitng
7 Brown - stays 17 Johnson - stay
8 Riewoldt -stays 18 Kingsley - delisting
9 Not utilised 19 Not utilsed
10 Edwards - stays 20 Hall - delisting/retirement

21 Tuck - stays 31 Hyde - delisting/traded
22 Meyer - traded/stays 32 Tivendale - stays
23 Jackson - stays 33 Hartigan - delisting/traded
24 Coughlan - stays 34 Hughes - stays
25 Schulz -traded 35 White - stays
26 Patterson - stays 36 Thursfield -stays
27 Krakouer - traded 37 Casserley - stays
28 Petersen - stays 38 McGuane - stays
29 O-Nicholls - stays 39 Cooners - stays
30 Tambling - stays 40 Moore - delisting/stay

41 Foley - stays
42 Collins - stays
43 Howat- stays
44 Graham - delisted
45 Clingen - stays as a rookie
46 King - stays

[GhostofJimJess]

I'll try to estimate trade value where required. If noopposition club could meet this figure, then we keep.

1 Newman - stays
2 Gaspar- delisted
3 Deledio- stays
4 Raines- stays
5 Simmonds - stays
6 Polak - stays
7 Brown - stays
8 Riewoldt -stays
9 Not utilised
10 Edwards - stays
11 Bowden.J - stays (or Pick 1-10 Trade)
12 Richo - stays
13 Knobel- delisted
14 Polo - stays
15 Pettifer - stays (or Pick 10-20 Trade)
16 Bowden.P - stay (or Pick 40+ Trade)
17 Johnson - stay
18 Kingsley - delisted (although he's on bugger all, so might be worth the same "experiment" in 2008)
19 Not utilsed
20 Hall - stays (or Pick 30-50 Trade)
21 Tuck - stays
22 Meyer - stays
23 Jackson - stays
24 Coughlan - stays stays (or Pick 10-20 Trade)
25 Schulz - stays stays (or Pick 20-30 Trade)
26 Patterson - stays
27 Krakouer - stays (or Pick 20-40 Trade)
28 Petersen - stays
29 O-Nicholls - stays
30 Tambling - stays
31 Hyde - stays (or Pick 20-30 Trade)
32 Tivendale - stays (or Pick 20-40 Trade)
33 Hartigan - stays (or Pick 30-50 Trade)
34 Hughes - stays
35 White - stays
36 Thursfield -stays
37 Casserley - stays
38 McGuane - stays
39 Connors - stays
40 Moore - stays (or Pick 40-60 Trade)
41 Foley - stays
42 Collins - stays
43 Howat- stays
44 Graham - ??
45 Clingen - ??
46 King - stays

[SolidTiger]

I'll try to estimate trade value where required. If noopposition club could meet this figure, then we keep.

1 Newman - stays
2 Gaspar- delisted
3 Deledio- stays
4 Raines- stays
5 Simmonds - stays
6 Polak - stays
7 Brown - stays
8 Riewoldt -stays
9 Not utilised
10 Edwards - stays
11 Bowden.J - stays (or Pick 1-10 Trade)
12 Richo - stays
13 Knobel- delisted
14 Polo - stays
15 Pettifer - stays (or Pick 10-20 Trade)
16 Bowden.P - stay (or Pick 40+ Trade)
17 Johnson - stay
18 Kingsley - delisted (although he's on bugger all, so might be worth the same "experiment" in 2008)
19 Not utilsed
20 Hall - stays (or Pick 30-50 Trade)
21 Tuck - stays
22 Meyer - stays
23 Jackson - stays
24 Coughlan - stays stays (or Pick 10-20 Trade)
25 Schulz - stays stays (or Pick 20-30 Trade)
26 Patterson - stays
27 Krakouer - stays (or Pick 20-40 Trade)
28 Petersen - stays
29 O-Nicholls - stays
30 Tambling - stays
31 Hyde - stays (or Pick 20-30 Trade)
32 Tivendale - stays (or Pick 20-40 Trade)
33 Hartigan - stays (or Pick 30-50 Trade)
34 Hughes - stays
35 White - stays
36 Thursfield -stays
37 Casserley - stays
38 McGuane - stays
39 Connors - stays
40 Moore - stays (or Pick 40-60 Trade)
41 Foley - stays
42 Collins - stays
43 Howat- stays
44 Graham - ??
45 Clingen - ??
46 King - stays

I agree in general. I highlighted the ones I think differently though. Brown may suprise.

1 Newman - stays
2 Gaspar- retired
3 Deledio- stays
4 Raines- stays
5 Simmonds - stays
6 Polak - stays
7 Brown - stays (or Pick 1-8)
8 Riewoldt -stays
9 Not utilised
10 Edwards - stays
11 Bowden.J - stays (or Pick 1-10 Trade)
12 Richo - stays
13 Knobel- delisted (or Pick 40+)
14 Polo - stays
15 Pettifer - stays (or Pick 20-30 Trade)
16 Bowden.P - stay (or Pick 40+ Trade)
17 Johnson - stay
18 Kingsley - delisted (although he's on bugger all, so might be worth the same "experiment" in 2008)
19 Not utilsed
20 Hall - stays (or Pick 40-50 Trade)
21 Tuck - stays (or pick 15-25)
22 Meyer - stays (or pick 30-35)
23 Jackson - stays depending on second half performance.
24 Coughlan - stays stays (or Pick 5-15 Trade)
25 Schulz - stays (or Pick 20-30 Trade)
26 Patterson - stays
27 Krakouer - stays (or Pick 20-40 Trade)
28 Petersen - stays
29 O-Nicholls - stays
30 Tambling - stays
31 Hyde - stays (or Pick 20-30 Trade)
32 Tivendale - stays (or Pick 30-40 Trade)
33 Hartigan - delisted ( Pick 50+ Trade)
34 Hughes - stays
35 White - stays
36 Thursfield -stays
37 Casserley - stays
38 McGuane - stays
39 Connors - stays
40 Moore - delisted (or Pick 40-60 Trade)
41 Foley - stays
42 Collins - stays
43 Howat- stays
44 Graham - ??
45 Clingen - ??
46 King - stays

[benny_furs]

If Nathan Brown finished the year off strongly and had no pain and St Kilda continued to have a shocker of a year and ended up with say pick 3... would we trade Brown for picks 3 and 21? He'd get to play with his mate Nick.

I know it would be hard, but a fit Nathan Brown (let's hope) and Joel Bowden are the only players worth early picks. If clubs were interested and we ended up with say picks 1, 4, 10, 17, 19, 21 then DO IT! (Brown for 4, Joel for 10 and 21)

Also I'm sure Tuck will be offered again, not sure what we'd get for him though (presumably not enough).

Can't trade Newman, we lack mid-aged leaders and can't give them away.

Can't trade Pettifer because he's a good middle aged player and we lack these players.

After that, this is the year where we offer anybody who is worth early picks and trade them if they will not be around during 2011-2013.

[krustyman]

Unless they want to make the same mistakes as this year the tigers need to delist some of the youngsters. it need to bolster the squad with a few experienced players in the 21-26 year range and a few exceptional youngsters. blindly bulk recuiting of youngsters hasnt worked.

[jezza]

If Nathan Brown finished the year off strongly and had no pain and St Kilda continued to have a shocker of a year and ended up with say pick 3... would we trade Brown for picks 3 and 21? He'd get to play with his mate Nick.


Brown wouldn't even command pick 3 alone. He'll be 30 by the start of next season.

[jezza]

Unless they want to make the same mistakes as this year the tigers need to delist some of the youngsters. it need to bolster the squad with a few experienced players in the 21-26 year range and a few exceptional youngsters. blindly bulk recuiting of youngsters hasnt worked.

I seem to recall that strategy being used before at Richmond in recent times to no success at all.

[Ah Cheung]

No point having 6 picks in the first round of the draft if we can't identify talent!

[benny_furs]

Recruiting experienced players around 23-26yo is the wrong choice. We could top up with Patrick Bowdens and maybe we'll finish 8th next year but in the grand scheme of things it only delays the inevitable.

Besides, what would be their motive to come to our club after our 2007 season?

I don't trust that anybody would come to Richmond for reasons other than money or getting a game. So we'll end up with a few selfish stars or Pat Bowdens who struggle to get a game elsewhere.

National Draft all the way - no shortcuts AT ALL! :thumbsu:

[telsor]

I seem to recall that strategy being used before at Richmond in recent times to no success at all.

Careful, if you bring logic and common sense into the argument, Krusty's head will implode.

Remember, his great strategy is to find fault in whatever Richmond does, and blindly suggest the opposite.

[benny_furs]

Brown wouldn't even command pick 3 alone. He'll be 30 by the start of next season.

True, do you think we might get something like pick 16 so he can play for 3-4 years at West Coast?

Joel will play for another 4 years, his uncontested style will allow his body to hold up, plus he is 28 so might play till he's 34. He's genuinely worth a top 10 pick IMO, he's the AA CHB, can stop the monster forwards and sets up more goals from the backline than any other AFL player. Sets up more goals from kick ins than any other player too.

[jezza]

The problem is a lot of you are talking about trading away our experienced players for kids. Those kids are going to take a few years. If you want to do this, prepare yourselves for another 2 or 3 years like the current one.

[benny_furs]

The problem is a lot of you are talking about trading away our experienced players for kids. Those kids are going to take a few years. If you want to do this, prepare yourselves for another 2 or 3 years like the current one.

Ok.

But in doing so I will also prepare for 10 years of sustained success after 2 years of failure.

I can live with that, Hawthorn certainly did.

[beaver fever]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336613&highlight=RFC+player+management

[PLSC]

I'll try to estimate trade value where required. If noopposition club could meet this figure, then we keep.

1 Newman - stays
2 Gaspar- delisted
3 Deledio- stays
4 Raines- stays
5 Simmonds - stays
6 Polak - stays
7 Brown - stays
8 Riewoldt -stays
9 Not utilised
10 Edwards - stays
11 Bowden.J - stays (or Pick 1-10 Trade)
12 Richo - stays
13 Knobel- delisted
14 Polo - stays
15 Pettifer - stays (or Pick 10-20 Trade)
16 Bowden.P - stay (or Pick 40+ Trade)
17 Johnson - stay
18 Kingsley - delisted (although he's on bugger all, so might be worth the same "experiment" in 2008)
19 Not utilsed
20 Hall - stays (or Pick 30-50 Trade)
21 Tuck - stays
22 Meyer - stays
23 Jackson - stays
24 Coughlan - stays stays (or Pick 10-20 Trade)
25 Schulz - stays stays (or Pick 20-30 Trade)
26 Patterson - stays
27 Krakouer - stays (or Pick 20-40 Trade)
28 Petersen - stays
29 O-Nicholls - stays
30 Tambling - stays
31 Hyde - stays (or Pick 20-30 Trade)
32 Tivendale - stays (or Pick 20-40 Trade)
33 Hartigan - stays (or Pick 30-50 Trade)
34 Hughes - stays
35 White - stays
36 Thursfield -stays
37 Casserley - stays
38 McGuane - stays
39 Connors - stays
40 Moore - stays (or Pick 40-60 Trade)
41 Foley - stays
42 Collins - stays
43 Howat- stays
44 Graham - ??
45 Clingen - ??
46 King - stays

well done!

you've just managed to copy a typical greg miller end of season review of the richmond playing list

lots of overrating of dud players you would like to keep and also for a man who is in love with trade week you cleary dont have an understanding to the value of all those players in the 2007 market

SUPRISING - NO!

LAUGHABLE - YES!

[tigerdan]

We have little trade currency. Deledio would attract interest, the rest nothing special. Richo's not 23 anymore.

Is there any point in swapping (say) Chris Newman for pick number 38? All I can think is that we may deicide to give up a pick to get a replacement ruckman. A KPP would be nice but they require paying over the odds. Might be better to persist with what we've got.

All we can do is delist 6-7 guys (easy!), draft 6 kids and coax the best guy we can through to the PSD.

[CoggaRules]

18 Kingsley - delisted (although he's on bugger all, so might be worth the same "experiment" in 2008)


Kingsley will stay. If anything the brains trust will look stupid if they delist him.;)

[Mr Miller]

We have little trade currency. Deledio would attract interest, the rest nothing special. Richo's not 23 anymore.

Is there any point in swapping (say) Chris Newman for pick number 38? All I can think is that we may deicide to give up a pick to get a replacement ruckman. A KPP would be nice but they require paying over the odds. Might be better to persist with what we've got.

All we can do is delist 6-7 guys (easy!), draft 6 kids and coax the best guy we can through to the PSD.

Thats it Dan, but we might be able to get a trade or 2, blackmailing clubs saying we will take them for nothing (Meeson) in psd like we did with Simmons (Fiora Saints must hate this deal) than we offer them slightly reduced players for trade.

Wont work with everyone, but can work.

[krustyman]

polak would be worth a bit now, but i wouldnt blindly trade him for just a early pick if there isnt much to pick from.

[CoggaRules]

Thats it Dan, but we might be able to get a trade or 2, blackmailing clubs saying we will take them for nothing (Meeson) in psd like we did with Simmons (Fiora Saints must hate this deal) than we offer them slightly reduced players for trade.

Wont work with everyone, but can work.

you target the numb skulls that masquerade as guru coaches. i.e Lyon, Connelly. But the one that has to be looked at and all stops should be pulled out to get. Get Josh Hunt immediately. ;)

[astro_toby]

If Nathan Brown finished the year off strongly and had no pain and St Kilda continued to have a shocker of a year and ended up with say pick 3... would we trade Brown for picks 3 and 21? He'd get to play with his mate Nick.
.

LOL LOL LOL


AS ****ING IF!!!!!!

no one would give even a first rounder for a once quality player with a bunged up leg! Let alone a first round and another quality pick!! PFHT!! HAHAH
this is the same people who think they would take a mostly fit and fine ben cousins for free or a 2nd or 3rd rounder - because he got busted for being on the gear for 3 years!!!

LOL LOL LOL LOL

brown won't go anywhere because no one would not offer us a trade which wouldn't be completely embarrassing to what we gave up to get him

[benny_furs]

LOL LOL LOL


AS ****ING IF!!!!!!

no one would give even a first rounder for a once quality player with a bunged up leg! Let alone a first round and another quality pick!! PFHT!! HAHAH
this is the same people who think they would take a mostly fit and fine ben cousins for free or a 2nd or 3rd rounder - because he got busted for being on the gear for 3 years!!!

LOL LOL LOL LOL

brown won't go anywhere because no one would not offer us a trade which wouldn't be completely embarrassing to what we gave up to get him

The way you post makes you come across as a complete jerk you just go overboard, in real life I'm sure you're much better but that's a poor posting habit! Re-read it you don't come across as a good bloke lol don't overvent!

I politely said "if Brown plays the next 11 games and gets back to his best" he might be worth something, and the OP said pick 1 to 10, looking back I would say he might be worth pick 10-15 so you're right in that he was over-valued by both me and the OP.

Btw, we gave up Keplar Bradley and another nobody for Brown so it's no loss ;)

[SolidTiger]

well done!

you've just managed to copy a typical greg miller end of season review of the richmond playing list

lots of overrating of dud players you would like to keep and also for a man who is in love with trade week you cleary dont have an understanding to the value of all those players in the 2007 market

SUPRISING - NO!

LAUGHABLE - YES!

It is not the player people overrate. It is the quality of the draft picks that people overrate. Remember that Krakour was pick 41, Pettifer was pick 8, Schulz was pick 12 etc and that is not including delisted failures such as Gilmore at pick 21, Roach at pick 37, Fiora at pick 3, Poyas at pick 22.

Every player on the list was once a draft pick and each player has varying success to where they were picked. The draft picks are unpredictable and people seem to forget that these days when comparing a player to where they are worth in the draft.

[PLSC]

It is not the player people overrate. It is the quality of the draft picks that people overrate. Remember that Krakour was pick 41, Pettifer was pick 8, Schulz was pick 12 etc and that is not including delisted failures such as Gilmore at pick 21, Roach at pick 37, Fiora at pick 3, Poyas at pick 22.

Every player on the list was once a draft pick and each player has varying success to where they were picked. The draft picks are unpredictable and people seem to forget that these days when comparing a player to where they are worth in the draft.

just because richmond have nfi about using the draft doesnt mean the picks arent important

what the club does with them once they have them is another issue but they are very important except if your greg miller who throws then around like candy :o

[Infamy]

Pick 18 & Hyde for Cameron Wood & 3rd rounder

[Realistic Tiger]

3rd Round Pick for Jaymie Graham from the WCE. IMO well worth the trade. 196cm 96kg Key defender at 24 years old. Can't break into the WCE side, not through lack of trying and it may well be worth the loss of a pick in the 30's for another 8-10 year key defender that can play next year in support of Polak and Thursfield.

[IDGAF]

No point having 6 picks in the first round of the draft if we can't identify talent!
Correct

[IDGAF]

We have little trade currency. Deledio would attract interest, the rest nothing special. Richo's not 23 anymore.

Is there any point in swapping (say) Chris Newman for pick number 38? All I can think is that we may deicide to give up a pick to get a replacement ruckman. A KPP would be nice but they require paying over the odds. Might be better to persist with what we've got.

All we can do is delist 6-7 guys (easy!), draft 6 kids and coax the best guy we can through to the PSD.Correct

[Coughlan]

Unless they want to make the same mistakes as this year the tigers need to delist some of the youngsters. it need to bolster the squad with a few experienced players in the 21-26 year range and a few exceptional youngsters. blindly bulk recuiting of youngsters hasnt worked.
Good idea, lets top up with rejects and be shit for another 20 years:thumbsu:

[CoggaRules]

Good idea, lets top up with rejects and be shit for another 20 years:thumbsu:


naa dude, what he is trying to say is that we are going to be shit for another 20 years, and maybe we should cut our losses and at least be somewhat competitive. If not then we will be shit anyway. ;)

[borgy]

24 Coughlan - stays stays (or Pick 5-15 Trade)

Coughlan has no trade value. He will stay. Do you really think he would be worth a 1st rounder, considering what he has gone through injury wise? A mid-late second round pick minimum.

Just wondering, hows he comming along with his rehab? Anyone seen him on the track running?

[jezza]

naa dude, what he is trying to say is that we are going to be shit for another 20 years, and maybe we should cut our losses and at least be somewhat competitive. If not then we will be shit anyway. ;)

Yep, let's just keep on repeating the mistakes of the last 25 years.

[SolidTiger]

Coughlan has no trade value. He will stay. Do you really think he would be worth a 1st rounder, considering what he has gone through injury wise? A mid-late second round pick minimum.

Just wondering, hows he comming along with his rehab? Anyone seen him on the track running?

If Coughlan can get back to his best he is certainly worth a first round draft pick. But this is more about what I would be happy to get for the player rather than what I think they are worth. I would not be happy if we traded Coughlan for only a 25-35 draft pick considering what he can do when he is injury free.

Because of his injuries I understand that his "worth" has decreased.

[tigers71]

polak would be worth a bit now, but i wouldnt blindly trade him for just a early pick if there isnt much to pick from.

Can't trade Polak as he is on a three contract. I dont know if they are going to trade him after the work to get him. Also hes been on the list for one year :)

[Coughlan]

Can't trade Polak as he is on a three contract. I dont know if they are going to trade him after the work to get him. Also hes been for one year :)
Yeah, why would we get him, help him turn it around so he is performing well again, then get rid of him after one year

[tigerT]

3rd Round Pick for Jaymie Graham from the WCE. IMO well worth the trade. 196cm 96kg Key defender at 24 years old. Can't break into the WCE side, not through lack of trying and it may well be worth the loss of a pick in the 30's for another 8-10 year key defender that can play next year in support of Polak and Thursfield.

The eagles wouldnt take that

[Realistic Tiger]

The eagles wouldnt take that
You never know Graham is not getting opportunities there and looking at the list they have enough ample replacements available. I think we should be exploring that avenue as I said the kid is not getting a chance at WCE and I have no doubt with us he would slot right in. As they say if you don't ask you don't know.

[tigerT]

You never know Graham is not getting opportunities there and looking at the list they have enough ample replacements available. I think we should be exploring that avenue as I said the kid is not getting a chance at WCE and I have no doubt with us he would slot right in. As they say if you don't ask you don't know.

Dont get me wrong, I'd do that trade in a flash. Hes at the right age and size and would fit in well with where we're going. From memory he was a regular or semi-regular last season but missed the boat early this season due to injury? and cant get a look in now...

[Jeremias]

From a Carlton perspective, I think that we would be interested in Newman and Tuck.

REALISTICALLY, what would you want from us in return for them?

[benny_furs]

Newman might be hard to get because he is a great leader - something we severely lack. Plus he is one of our best kicks - another thing we lack lol. Being best mates with Fevola I'm sure he wouldn't absolutely refuse to go to Carlton.

You would have to pay a little more than his actual worth for Richmond to say 'deal' imo. What if we traded say Tuck and pick 19 to another club for say pick 9, then we traded pick 9 and Newman for Carlton's pick 3 and pick 36?

End up with picks 1, 3, 17, 34, 36.

Get Kreuzer, a gun midfielder to upgrade on Tuck, lose Newman but pick up a good player with our PP 17 and hopefully one of 34/36 turn out to be a player. Losing Newman would hurt for several reasons, but not many players are 100% exempt from trades.

[Jeremias]

I would think that our pick 3 would be untouchable unless a real superstar came into consideration.

The only way I could see us downgrading an early pick is if it was a downgrade of 1 or 2 picks only. Nothing more than that-our picks are vital to our development as well.

[CoggaRules]

Yep, let's just keep on repeating the mistakes of the last 25 years.

you really dont get it do you dude. If they got it wrong with the last 3 years of drafting, or even if they got it half right, it will cost us at least 10 years. Then they have to maybe get it right in the next 2 years, which will take 4 years to see if they did. The mistakes of the last 25 years were that our drafting was shit and our selection of tried and tested recruits was shit.
the present brains trust is there because they were deemed better. So far they have flunked in drafting and they have marginally improved in selecting tried and tested players. So you do the maths. Heres is a hint, the swannies waited 85 years to see the flag. Do you understand how long 85 years is? Do you also understand what they had to do to actually see it? ;)

[jezza]

you really dont get it do you dude. If they got it wrong with the last 3 years of drafting, or even if they got it half right, it will cost us at least 10 years. Then they have to maybe get it right in the next 2 years, which will take 4 years to see if they did. The mistakes of the last 25 years were that our drafting was shit and our selection of tried and tested recruits was shit.
the present brains trust is there because they were deemed better. So far they have flunked in drafting and they have marginally improved in selecting tried and tested players. So you do the maths. Heres is a hint, the swannies waited 85 years to see the flag. Do you understand how long 85 years is? Do you also understand what they had to do to actually see it? ;)

So you advocate doing the same thing that we've done over the last decade do you? Let's bring in rejects from other clubs, trade away plenty of good picks. I think it's safe to say that that strategy does not work.

Sure recruiting is hard, and mistakes will be made (as they are by all clubs). But how will we know if this strategy will work if we don't try it? God knows we've tried rubbish strategies and given them more than enough time to show how poor they are. It's time to commit to building the side through drafting. We are now putting more resources into recruiting than we have done before so the results should be improving.

Saying making a few mistakes with the drafting will cost us 10 years is completely incorrect. If we stuff 1 draft up, it will cost us 1 year. It's pretty clear that a strategy of bringing in rejects and trading away high picks is the strategy that causes long term damage to a list.

As for the Swans, I would say the vast bulk of their side is made up of players they have drafted, further proof that the way we are now trying to build the side is the right way to go.

[jezza]

Newman might be hard to get because he is a great leader - something we severely lack. Plus he is one of our best kicks - another thing we lack lol. Being best mates with Fevola I'm sure he wouldn't absolutely refuse to go to Carlton.

You would have to pay a little more than his actual worth for Richmond to say 'deal' imo. What if we traded say Tuck and pick 19 to another club for say pick 9, then we traded pick 9 and Newman for Carlton's pick 3 and pick 36?

End up with picks 1, 3, 17, 34, 36.

Get Kreuzer, a gun midfielder to upgrade on Tuck, lose Newman but pick up a good player with our PP 17 and hopefully one of 34/36 turn out to be a player. Losing Newman would hurt for several reasons, but not many players are 100% exempt from trades.

Benny, I think you are too focused on getting yourself another high draft pick.

Think of it this way: what would you expect in return for giving away our first pick? That should give you an idea of what other clubs would be expecting of us if we wanted their pick. Newman and 9? Not even close.

Getting another high pick won't happen because we don't have players with the trade value that we can afford to get rid of to make it happen.

[RichosGuns]

From a Carlton perspective, I think that we would be interested in Newman and Tuck.

REALISTICALLY, what would you want from us in return for them?

Realistically?... I doubt highley we would trade Newman, as he is in the leadership group and could well be our next captain. He would probably be worth a low second round pick or a high 3rd round. Something around pick 25-40.

Tuck is less immune, although after starting the season slowly he has really picked up and been one of our most consistent good players over the last 4-5 weeks. However, because you guys need some expirenced in-and-under midfielders with Steven and Kouta getting on to help develop the likes of Murphy, Gibbs and co, u may be willing to pay more then market value for him, which would mean you would probably give up your 3rd round pick. We would probably want a high 3rd round pick for him or a player trade, ie Meyer and Tuck for your 2nd round pick and Blackwell

[tigerdan]

From a Carlton perspective, I think that we would be interested in Newman and Tuck.

REALISTICALLY, what would you want from us in return for them?

I don't think we can afford to trade Tuck as he is one of the few big bodies we can use at centre bounces. The other one is Coughlan and he may never play again.

Yes, I would be prepared to trade Newman but I think any pick better than 25 would be ripping you off and any pick higher would send most of the bigfooty drafting fraternity (not to mention the Tiger faithful) into cardiac arrest.

I may get flamed for suggesting such a 'low' value but when compared to say Judd I think a pick around 35 is probably fair value.

But no-one wants fair value in trades. Everyone wants the a first round pick for their 10th best player.

While i'm in a trading mood I'll trade you Pettifer for a KPP or Ruckman.

[W. Smithers]

If Coughlan can get back to his best he is certainly worth a first round draft pick. But this is more about what I would be happy to get for the player rather than what I think they are worth. I would not be happy if we traded Coughlan for only a 25-35 draft pick considering what he can do when he is injury free.

Because of his injuries I understand that his "worth" has decreased.
Only one prob with Coughlan, he can't kick.

[Thursfieldness]

The 'value' of our players has been greatly overestimated in this thread IMO. Krak and Hall are experienced 'players' (hacks) yet cannot get a game for the worst team in the competition.

No other club would use the last pick in the draft on these duds so why would they trade for them? Their combined worth is zero, the fact that posters on this board cannot realise this is the very height of of having NFI.

Cogs for pick 30-40 (clearly not worth it for Richmond) or trading kids and or picks would be the only trades to stimulate any interest from other clubs. The exceptions to this may be dealing with known 'dumb recruiters' such as Fremantle, Essendon and Carlton.

[PLSC]

The 'value' of our players has been greatly overestimated in this thread IMO. Krak and Hall are experienced 'players' (hacks) yet cannot get a game for the worst team in the competition.

No other club would use the last pick in the draft on these duds so why would they trade for them? Their combined worth is zero, the fact that posters on this board cannot realise this is the very height of of having NFI.

Cogs for pick 30-40 (clearly not worth it for Richmond) or trading kids and or picks would be the only trades to stimulate any interest from other clubs. The exceptions to this may be dealing with known 'dumb recruiters' such as Fremantle, Essendon and Carlton.

dont be a spoilt sport, let the kids have their fun!

this thread is hilarious!

[Thursfieldness]

Hilarity yes, but delusion also. People need to reason that as we don't rate these players, other clubs wouldn't rate them. It sickens me that (it appears) Krak is playing this week. Regardless of how he performs in the second half of the year he is and always will only be a good VFL player.

[acr2751]

predicted our draft picks used on hack reject
desired meyer for judd

[Catsace]

It's interesting how trade values are really looked at in totally different order from the teams 'buying' and 'selling'. The team who is willing to trade a pick will invariable offer a really low pick number for someone whom the other club will be expecting a 2nd rounder.

My first taste of that disparity was when Geelong recieved what i thought was an ordinary pick (31) for Mick Mansfield in about 1997 or so. Similarly, i really though David Spriggs and Geelong's 1st round selection would have been enough to get Ottens. Obviously Richmond must have scoffed at Spriggs though, and they demanded (And got) picks 12 and 16 when Geelong traded Moloney to the Dees for pick 12. As it turns out, that's a great win for Geelong, as Otto has become our best ruckman, and Moloney hasn't done much at Melbourne, mainly through injuries. Bear in mind though that Geelong has constructed it's team through middling draft picks, plus a liberal selection of father-son studs. I'm amazed that players like Tom Roach, Raines etc haven't come on to be really good players yet.

[GhostofJimJess]

Coughlan has no trade value. He will stay. Do you really think he would be worth a 1st rounder, considering what he has gone through injury wise? A mid-late second round pick minimum.

And that's the exact point I tried to make. That opposition clubs aren't prepared to value someone like Cogs in the same esteem as his current club, and so the trade just will not happen.

The same could be said for Tredrea, Lloyd, Hayes and a bunch of other blokes who have had disrupted seasons over the past couple of years. All well and truly worth a first round pick in the estimation of their current club, but would probably never get it nowadays at the trade table.

The mistakes of the last 25 years were that our drafting was shit and our selection of tried and tested recruits was shit.
the present brains trust is there because they were deemed better. So far they have flunked in drafting and they have marginally improved in selecting tried and tested players.

Agree with pretty much all of that Cogga. Dunno if our current drafting team has necessarily "flunked" as yet though. Still a bit early on for a bunch of the young players, but there's clearly been a number of mistakes for sure. Gilmour is a classic example, but that was pre-Wallace, as was Sipthorpe, Archibald, Fleming, Fletcher, Nicholls etc.

Jury is still out for me on JON, Riewoldt, Meyer, Polo, Patto, but Lids and Tambling have shown they will be excellent long term Tiger players (and so they should be given their high draft positions).

As for the recruiting, it's improved dramatically over the last three years. Brown (pre-Wallace, I acknowledge), Simmonds and Polak have all been great pickups. Nathan Brown was a genius for us before his injury - potentially the best recruit from another club in the history of the Tigerland. Simmo should have been AA, and Polak has belied his critics for half a season so far. Injury free, and doing everything right on and off the field.

I don't consider PBowden, Knobel, Graham and Kingsley within this group as we gave up nothing for them.

But you're spot on - the better part of the last 25 years has left us shaking our collective frustrated Tiger heads.

The 'value' of our players has been greatly overestimated in this thread IMO. Krak and Hall are experienced 'players' (hacks) yet cannot get a game for the worst team in the competition.

No other club would use the last pick in the draft on these duds so why would they trade for them? Their combined worth is zero, the fact that posters on this board cannot realise this is the very height of of having NFI.

Cogs for pick 30-40 (clearly not worth it for Richmond) or trading kids and or picks would be the only trades to stimulate any interest from other clubs. The exceptions to this may be dealing with known 'dumb recruiters' such as Fremantle, Essendon and Carlton.

Ask a typical footy fan what they consider David Rodan to be worth as a trade for draft picks nowadays. I'd expect most would have him rated 20-40 at present. This time last year, he was considered nothing better than 50. Even myself as someone who is often accused as over-rating our hacks wouldn't have expected us to get better than about pick 60 for him.

With this in mind, why wouldn't blokes like Krakouer, Hyde, Tivendale and Hall also be worth sub pick-50 too? And guys like Pettifer, Tuck and Schulz could quite easily command a Top 20 pick to a club with premiership aspirations in 2008.

[PLSC]

And that's the exact point I tried to make. That opposition clubs aren't prepared to value someone like Cogs in the same esteem as his current club, and so the trade just will not happen.

The same could be said for Tredrea, Lloyd, Hayes and a bunch of other blokes who have had disrupted seasons over the past couple of years. All well and truly worth a first round pick in the estimation of their current club, but would probably never get it nowadays at the trade table.



Agree with pretty much all of that Cogga. Dunno if our current drafting team has necessarily "flunked" as yet though. Still a bit early on for a bunch of the young players, but there's clearly been a number of mistakes for sure. Gilmour is a classic example, but that was pre-Wallace, as was Sipthorpe, Archibald, Fleming, Fletcher, Nicholls etc.

Jury is still out for me on JON, Riewoldt, Meyer, Polo, Patto, but Lids and Tambling have shown they will be excellent long term Tiger players (and so they should be given their high draft positions).

As for the recruiting, it's improved dramatically over the last three years. Brown (pre-Wallace, I acknowledge), Simmonds and Polak have all been great pickups. Nathan Brown was a genius for us before his injury - potentially the best recruit from another club in the history of the Tigerland. Simmo should have been AA, and Polak has belied his critics for half a season so far. Injury free, and doing everything right on and off the field.

I don't consider PBowden, Knobel, Graham and Kingsley within this group as we gave up nothing for them.

But you're spot on - the better part of the last 25 years has left us shaking our collective frustrated Tiger heads.



Ask a typical footy fan what they consider David Rodan to be worth as a trade for draft picks nowadays. I'd expect most would have him rated 20-40 at present. This time last year, he was considered nothing better than 50. Even myself as someone who is often accused as over-rating our hacks wouldn't have expected us to get better than about pick 60 for him.

With this in mind, why wouldn't blokes like Krakouer, Hyde, Tivendale and Hall also be worth sub pick-50 too? And guys like Pettifer, Tuck and Schulz could quite easily command a Top 20 pick to a club with premiership aspirations in 2008.

because their shit?

[polakthetiger]

why wouldn't blokes like Krakouer, Hyde, Tivendale and Hall also be worth sub pick-50 too?

Not likely but not impossible for Krak.

-------------------
And guys like Pettifer, Tuck and Schulz could quite easily command a Top 20 pick to a club with premiership aspirations in 2008.
---------------------
Again, Petts and Tuck maybe high teens at best....Schulz at the moment I can't see any value there at all....Wallace needs to say to Lids, Browny and Foley....in the last 5 games of the year....try and hit Schulz with everything..ignor Richo at all costs....try and get some value into him for a trade.

It would be nice to get something for either Petts or Schulz while they still have some value.

[capnblood]

Surely we can p15s the captain off for 3rd round pick.

[GhostofJimJess]

because their shit?

So were Rodan, Fiora and Holland.

[CoggaRules]

So were Rodan, Fiora and Holland.

we delisted Rodan, we paid the dees to get Holland off our hands and we found the dip stick Thomas who learnt the coaching ropes from the same handbook that Spud did, i.e. wear your heart on your sleeve, but your brain on your ass, and he went for Fiora, hence he was quickly shown the door. ;)

[PLSC]

we delisted Rodan, we paid the dees to get Holland off our hands and we found the dip stick Thomas who learnt the coaching ropes from the same handbook that Spud did, i.e. wear your heart on your sleeve, but your brain on your ass, and he went for Fiora, hence he was quickly shown the door. ;)

thanks for explaining it to clueless people

rodan was delisted then redrafted with the last pick in the ND no one was ever going to trade for him

fiora was a no 3 draft pick so still had value

holland dud or not (actually yes) was a kpp in what should of been the peak of his career

those players you mentioned are worth peanuts

[crashandbashruckmen]

thanks for explaining it to clueless people

rodan was delisted then redrafted with the last pick in the ND no one was ever going to trade for him

fiora was a no 3 draft pick so still had value

holland dud or not (actually yes) was a kpp in what should of been the peak of his career

those players you mentioned are worth peanuts

Rodan is on a honeymoon at present. When he checks the bill he will :eek: like he did at Richmond. No loss.

[benny_furs]

How does this sound for a possible trade.

Pick 18 + Danny Meyer to Essendon for say Pick 10. They get 2 highly rated youngsters and Sheedy might like a shot at Danny. It's hard predicting his value though, hopefully he has a standout game or two at AFL level this year.

[PHX]

Meyer and 3rd round for crows 3rd round and Meeson.

[PHX]

So were Rodan, Fiora and Holland.

What do you mean were? They still are. :confused:

Rodan the least Dud-less atm but he's on the first year high.

[CoggaRules]

thanks for explaining it to clueless people

rodan was delisted then redrafted with the last pick in the ND no one was ever going to trade for him

fiora was a no 3 draft pick so still had value

holland dud or not (actually yes) was a kpp in what should of been the peak of his career

those players you mentioned are worth peanuts

LMAO...what??? you had doubts? Like his file wasnt stamped with "DUD" before the dees did a another Funcke on us? ;)

[GhostofJimJess]

thanks for explaining it to clueless people

Jesus mate, how about you back off on the abusive stuff. There's enough really dopey and offensive people doing the rounds on these boards without the necessity to constantly belittle those who are at least attempting to post with a bit of rationality and civility, even if it is a differing opinion to your own. There is the outside possibility, you know, that we might both be wrong.


rodan was delisted then redrafted with the last pick in the ND no one was ever going to trade for him

fiora was a no 3 draft pick so still had value

holland dud or not (actually yes) was a kpp in what should of been the peak of his career

those players you mentioned are worth peanuts


What do you mean were? They still are. :confused:

Rodan the least Dud-less atm but he's on the first year high.

But lads, you're missing my point here. It's not what we think they are worth, it's what other clubs are prepared to pay.

Granted, Rodan was a delistment. But the point I was making by mentioning his name in amongst the others is that less than one year on he is currently viewed by the majority of footy supporters (maybe not so much Tiger fans who have had their fungers burned by him in the past) as a valuable commodity. He is a perfect illustration of a player who is poorly rated by his original club but can potentially play the sort of football that might lift his currency beyond that perceived by his critics.

Fiora and Holland, though they were very ordinary at Tigerland (and probably still are if I had to be perfectly truthful), both got us about Pick 20 in the National Draft for christ's sake !!

Sure, Fiora was Pick 3 once upon a time. But Kayne Pettifer is still a Pick 8, and Andy Krakouer and Shane Tuck still have champion VFL fathers and a champion surname. Don't completely discount the possibility that an opposition recruiting agent might see them as having more currency than Tiger supporters, who see a player like Andy only give them occasional flashes of brilliance. Sheedy, for instance, seems to love such reclamation projects at Essendon. Ditto Williams at Port.

I would imagine that Hyde and Tivendale would spark quite a lot of interest at the trade table. It ain't gonna be no bloodthirsty bidding war, that's for sure, but in a crazy mixed up football world that sees Shane Birss, Jon Hay and Ted Richards get exchanged for relatively pricey draft selections, who the hell knows?

[PLSC]

Jesus mate, how about you back off on the abusive stuff. There's enough really dopey and offensive people doing the rounds on these boards without the necessity to constantly belittle those who are at least attempting to post with a bit of rationality and civility, even if it is a differing opinion to your own. There is the outside possibility, you know, that we might both be wrong.







But lads, you're missing my point here. It's not what we think they are worth, it's what other clubs are prepared to pay.

Granted, Rodan was a delistment. But the point I was making by mentioning his name in amongst the others is that less than one year on he is currently viewed by the majority of footy supporters (maybe not so much Tiger fans who have had their fungers burned by him in the past) as a valuable commodity. He is a perfect illustration of a player who is poorly rated by his original club but can potentially play the sort of football that might lift his currency beyond that perceived by his critics.

Fiora and Holland, though they were very ordinary at Tigerland (and probably still are if I had to be perfectly truthful), both got us about Pick 20 in the National Draft for christ's sake !!

Sure, Fiora was Pick 3 once upon a time. But Kayne Pettifer is still a Pick 8, and Andy Krakouer and Shane Tuck still have champion VFL fathers and a champion surname. Don't completely discount the possibility that an opposition recruiting agent might see them as having more currency than Tiger supporters, who see a player like Andy only give them occasional flashes of brilliance. Sheedy, for instance, seems to love such reclamation projects at Essendon. Ditto Williams at Port.

I would imagine that Hyde and Tivendale would spark quite a lot of interest at the trade table. It ain't gonna be no bloodthirsty bidding war, that's for sure, but in a crazy mixed up football world that sees Shane Birss, Jon Hay and Ted Richards get exchanged for relatively pricey draft selections, who the hell knows?

shane birss was traded for pick 50-ish, like how we traded our late pick for p bowden it was a dumb

jon hay was traded to the kangas, nuff said

ted richards although swans payed overs is a good pickup

tivendale, krak, hall etc have NO trade value only guys like meyer and schulz are the only value we have

just because rodan is playing good footy doesnt mean we should of got a pick for him, port picked him with their last selection so its not as if they were keen to sacrifice a gray or westhoff to get rodan they just had the extra spot on the list and thought what the hell, no doubt if we wanted a port dud we would be throwing picks at them left right and centre but i guess that shows why 1 club has a clue and the other is a rabble

wake up mate!

[benny_furs]

Performance wise Tiv is in our top 8 players this season.

In today's even competition I am certain someone would pay for Tiv - he would not be delisted. Even Rodan who stuggled at VFL got picked up, a struggling P. Bowden is worth a pick 50... Tivendale would be worth a 2nd rounder easily.

[tigerdan]

Performance wise Tiv is in our top 8 players this season.

In today's even competition I am certain someone would pay for Tiv - he would not be delisted. Even Rodan who stuggled at VFL got picked up, a struggling P. Bowden is worth a pick 50... Tivendale would be worth a 2nd rounder easily.

We got Leon Cameron for a third round pick. He was a much better player than Tivendale.

The 8th best player in the worst team in the league would be worth a 4th rounder in my opinion. A pick that a team don't mind if they lose.

[Realistic Tiger]

Jesus mate, how about you back off on the abusive stuff. There's enough really dopey and offensive people doing the rounds on these boards without the necessity to constantly belittle those who are at least attempting to post with a bit of rationality and civility, even if it is a differing opinion to your own. There is the outside possibility, you know, that we might both be wrong.

But lads, you're missing my point here. It's not what we think they are worth, it's what other clubs are prepared to pay.

Granted, Rodan was a delistment. But the point I was making by mentioning his name in amongst the others is that less than one year on he is currently viewed by the majority of footy supporters (maybe not so much Tiger fans who have had their fungers burned by him in the past) as a valuable commodity. He is a perfect illustration of a player who is poorly rated by his original club but can potentially play the sort of football that might lift his currency beyond that perceived by his critics.

Fiora and Holland, though they were very ordinary at Tigerland (and probably still are if I had to be perfectly truthful), both got us about Pick 20 in the National Draft for christ's sake !!

Sure, Fiora was Pick 3 once upon a time. But Kayne Pettifer is still a Pick 8, and Andy Krakouer and Shane Tuck still have champion VFL fathers and a champion surname. Don't completely discount the possibility that an opposition recruiting agent might see them as having more currency than Tiger supporters, who see a player like Andy only give them occasional flashes of brilliance. Sheedy, for instance, seems to love such reclamation projects at Essendon. Ditto Williams at Port.

I would imagine that Hyde and Tivendale would spark quite a lot of interest at the trade table. It ain't gonna be no bloodthirsty bidding war, that's for sure, but in a crazy mixed up football world that sees Shane Birss, Jon Hay and Ted Richards get exchanged for relatively pricey draft selections, who the hell knows?

The players you mention have been offered around, last year it was Tuck, Tivendale and Krakouer that were offered after playing in a side that won 11 games and yet no-one took the bait. Now whether that was becuase no-one was truly interested or the club was asking too high a price we'll never know. But the fact remains that they have been offered before and will be offered again this and no-one has wanted them.

BTW we never got a pick for Fiora just a straight swap for Simmonds. We got pick 20 for Holland which we ontraded as part of the Brown deal.

[Realistic Tiger]

We got Leon Cameron for a third round pick. He was a much better player than Tivendale.

The 8th best player in the worst team in the league would be worth a 4th rounder in my opinion. A pick that a team don't mind if they lose.

Performance wise Tiv is in our top 8 players this season.



In today's even competition I am certain someone would pay for Tiv - he would not be delisted. Even Rodan who stuggled at VFL got picked up, a struggling P. Bowden is worth a pick 50... Tivendale would be worth a 2nd rounder easily.

The problem is that 8th best player at our club maybe nothing more than the 25th best player at the other club and when that 25th best player is rising 29 next year, I doubt that any other club would come a running trying to snare him. They would be much better off taking some 18 year old kid at that 4th round pick.

Remember we are talking about Tivendale who is a servicable player for us but he is not an Akermanis type who is a Brownlow medal winning, 3 time Premiership player.

[RichosGuns]

Performance wise Tiv is in our top 8 players this season.

In today's even competition I am certain someone would pay for Tiv - he would not be delisted. Even Rodan who stuggled at VFL got picked up, a struggling P. Bowden is worth a pick 50... Tivendale would be worth a 2nd rounder easily.

I'm a fan of yours Benny, but you seriously must be on the turps. Tivendale has very little if any trade value. The only teams that would consider picking him up would be Blues, to add depth to there young midfield, and maybe the Kangas

If he isn't traded I doubt he will be delisted anyway. He has 1 more year left in him and then he will probably retire after play 75% AFL and 25% VFL next year

[tigerdan]

I doubt that any other club would come a running trying to snare him. They would be much better off taking some 18 year old kid at that 4th round pick.


Yeah, I was going to change it to 5th round after I typed it. And I think you are right, he has little trade value.

[GhostofJimJess]

We got Leon Cameron for a third round pick. He was a much better player than Tivendale.

The 8th best player in the worst team in the league would be worth a 4th rounder in my opinion. A pick that a team don't mind if they lose.

Funny thing is that the whole David Rodan Port Power 2007 Extravaganza Performance mighty work in our favor. He might inadvertently become an advertisement for some of our other hacks, that they have more potential than they are revealing if only they could find a new environment?


BTW we never got a pick for Fiora just a straight swap for Simmonds. We got pick 20 for Holland which we ontraded as part of the Brown deal.

Yeah, I dunno where that number 20 came into my head for Simmo. Hindsight (and probably foresight back then too) tells us that it was a sensational trade for us.

There will come a time when we will be blessed with an injury run that rivals some of the other more lucky clubs in the comp in this respect. Let's hope we have the cattle to take advantage of this eventuality.


shane birss was traded for pick 50-ish, like how we traded our late pick for p bowden it was a dumb

jon hay was traded to the kangas, nuff said

ted richards although swans payed overs is a good pickup


No doubt about any of that. Agree.

Hopefully some other club is still a bit dumb. They never seem to learn.

[benny_furs]

We got Leon Cameron for a third round pick. He was a much better player than Tivendale.

The 8th best player in the worst team in the league would be worth a 4th rounder in my opinion. A pick that a team don't mind if they lose.

We got Patrick Bowden for a 4th rounder and he couldn't get a game for the pathetic Bulldogs at the time. Is Tivendale now better than P. Bowden was at the Dogs ? Tiv was our stand out best mid for the first month of this season remember. I am not defending him and I couldn't care less if he didn't play another game for us, but I think you are overrating the value of a draft pick and underrating Greg. Ray Hall was worth a 1st/2nd Rounder a couple of years ago ;) Ben Holland was worth pick 20. Although with trading less and less frequent I can't see a deal being done.

Yeah, I was going to change it to 5th round after I typed it. And I think you are right, he has little trade value.

You think Tivendale is worth only a 5th Round Pick?

We delisted Rodan last year and he was a 5th/6th Round Pick.

Is Tivendale worse than Rodan was last year?


We may hate him, but he's not worthless. I agree that Carlton would go for him and I'd settle with a 3rd Rounder for him.

[CoggaRules]

We got Patrick Bowden for a 4th rounder and he couldn't get a game for the pathetic Bulldogs at the time. Is Tivendale now better than P. Bowden was at the Dogs ? Tiv was our stand out best mid for the first month of this season remember. I am not defending him and I couldn't care less if he didn't play another game for us, but I think you are overrating the value of a draft pick and underrating Greg. Ray Hall was worth a 1st/2nd Rounder a couple of years ago ;) Ben Holland was worth pick 20. Although with trading less and less frequent I can't see a deal being done.



You think Tivendale is worth only a 5th Round Pick?

We delisted Rodan last year and he was a 5th/6th Round Pick.

Is Tivendale worse than Rodan was last year?


We may hate him, but he's not worthless. I agree that Carlton would go for him and I'd settle with a 3rd Rounder for him.

man, if you were an outsider looking in on this thread, you would be pissing yourself laughing. I mean, who ****ing cares how the hacks are removed from the list, as long as our list has a new name on it, in place of theirs. Whether we find a nuff nuff of the Spud mould, to give us something, or whether they end up like Tom Roach, getting a piece in the paper, talking about he hoped to get picked up, when we all knew there was 0 hope, who ****ing cares, just do the job and clear the rubbish away. That way, we can all find new subjects to talk about, like winning maybe, instead of talking about the standard losses that emanate from the same rubbish that has been keeping the same debate going for the last 8 or 9 years. .
I mean, are the tigers serious about changing the mould? Well, here is a starting point TW. How about we dont keep players on the list, purely because "we" thought we could get a trade deal for and no one wanted them. You see, that really means that 15 other clubs thought what alot of us think and since you kept them because you wanted to get rid of them, but didnt because you didnt get what you wanted to get rid of them for, and seeing as the 15 other clubs are looking down at us from above, i am tipping they knew what alot of us knew. ;)

[PLSC]

tivendale and a 3rd round selection now **** that is funny!

love ya benny always good for a laugh :thumbsu:

[CoggaRules]

tivendale and a 3rd round selection now **** that is funny!

love ya benny always good for a laugh :thumbsu:

not really dude. Benny is thinking outside the square. You see, i am tipping he is thinking that there are a few clubs that are eyeing number 1 draft pick in a year or two and they need to top up on the right players to get it for them.
Tivendaale is perfect, he will have some of their supporters saying he isnt as bad as alot say, and in the meantime the team is hurtling towards the spoon. ;)

[French Tiger]

How bout our priority pick 17 or pick 18 for Beau Dowler,the Hawks have heaps of talls now with Franklin,Roughhead,Boyle etc & was a very high pickin 05 draft & was a tiger supporter,Hawks would want more but we could threaten them with the psd option

[GhostofJimJess]

man, if you were an outsider looking in on this thread, you would be pissing yourself laughing.

The problem with that kind of approach though, Cogga, is that an outsider looking in often tends to judge individual players on the performance of the collective group.

That's why really, really ordinary players like Blumfield, Caracella, Heffernan, Olarenshaw, Prior, Shattock, Schofield, Hewitt, Mitchell White, McConnell, McDougall, CMorrison, AWilliams, Haynes and Richards have all found themselves traded in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd Round.

[benny_furs]

How bout our priority pick 17 or pick 18 for Beau Dowler,the Hawks have heaps of talls now with Franklin,Roughhead,Boyle etc & was a very high pickin 05 draft & was a tiger supporter,Hawks would want more but we could threaten them with the psd option

Not fair enough for the Hawks.

We might have a shot at Dowler if say we trade Pick 1 for Dowler and their 2nd or 3rd round pick.. or maybe trade Riewoldt.

Pick 1 and Hughes for Dowler and Pick 10.

Either way Dowler is still worth a top 10 pick and we can't do that.

[tigerdan]

Either way Dowler is still worth a top 10 pick and we can't do that.

I think you need to forget where players were drafted and concentrate what they are like now. There are too many top players going round at the moment who would demand a top 10 pick, ahead of a kid who had a promising junior career.

I'd bet most people outside of Richmond would struggle to give us a top 10 pick for Tambling, despite him being drafted at a lower number than Dowler, and having achieved more. But using your method we'd expect a better pick.

I'm not trying to belittle you, just trying to put some perspective on your POV.

[benny_furs]

I think you need to forget where players were drafted and concentrate what they are like now.

Yeah but Dowler has been in the system for 1 year and has had to overcome a serious injury from a car crash - he hasn't had a chance to "devalue" yet.

[GhostofJimJess]

Not fair enough for the Hawks.

We might have a shot at Dowler if say we trade Pick 1 for Dowler and their 2nd or 3rd round pick.. or maybe trade Riewoldt.

Pick 1 and Hughes for Dowler and Pick 10.

Either way Dowler is still worth a top 10 pick and we can't do that.

Sheez Benny, I can at times be a bit of a fan of your work at times, but that's a shocker. You speak of Dowler's being in a car accident as something that should endear us to him as a footballer.

Trade Riewoldt ?! Pick 1??!! Has Dowler even tried on a Hawthorn jumper yet?

Let Hawthorn try and find a way of turning him into a senior footballer.

[jezza]

Benny's actually being realistic in a trade scenario for once. Why would the Hawks trade him away? I don't see the incentive for them. Simple supply and demand. If we want him and they don't want to sell, the price goes up. It's not about whether he's pulled on a Hawthorn jumper yet or not, it's about what his market value is.

[CoggaRules]

The problem with that kind of approach though, Cogga, is that an outsider looking in often tends to judge individual players on the performance of the collective group.

That's why really, really ordinary players like Blumfield, Caracella, Heffernan, Olarenshaw, Prior, Shattock, Schofield, Hewitt, Mitchell White, McConnell, McDougall, CMorrison, AWilliams, Haynes and Richards have all found themselves traded in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd Round.

copy that ghost, but you might want to copy this, the common denominator in all that group is that yes they were ordinary and yes the teams they were traded from were not. Can you see the difference yet?;)

[French Tiger]

Benny's actually being realistic in a trade scenario for once. Why would the Hawks trade him away? I don't see the incentive for them. Simple supply and demand. If we want him and they don't want to sell, the price goes up. It's not about whether he's pulled on a Hawthorn jumper yet or not, it's about what his market value is.

Well Dowler might not be exactly happy at the Hawks! They have plenty of emerging talls around the same age ! & just because you were a early draft pick doesn't mean you will get the same in return (ie Meyer) I know pick 17 might not satisfy the Hawks,but over on pre there are some whispers that he has spoken to Miller (who knows if true) & pick 17 might be better than nothing.

[Realistic Tiger]

We got Patrick Bowden for a 4th rounder and he couldn't get a game for the pathetic Bulldogs at the time. Is Tivendale now better than P. Bowden was at the Dogs ? Tiv was our stand out best mid for the first month of this season remember. I am not defending him and I couldn't care less if he didn't play another game for us, but I think you are overrating the value of a draft pick and underrating Greg. Ray Hall was worth a 1st/2nd Rounder a couple of years ago ;) Ben Holland was worth pick 20. Although with trading less and less frequent I can't see a deal being done.

You think Tivendale is worth only a 5th Round Pick?

We delisted Rodan last year and he was a 5th/6th Round Pick.

Is Tivendale worse than Rodan was last year?


We may hate him, but he's not worthless. I agree that Carlton would go for him and I'd settle with a 3rd Rounder for him.
There is a difference that you are over looking Benny. Rodan was delisted by us and picked up as the last pick in the draft, the advantage he had was that he is 23 years old and has time on his side to improve. Tivendale is rising 29 and wont improve, in fact it is likely he will get progressively worse. Think back a couple of years when a bloke named Woewodin was delisted by the Pies, they tried to trade him and no-one wanted to bite. It would be fair to say that Woey was and probably still is a better player than what Tivendale is.

Time to face facts Benny Tivendale may still have time left in AFL but the only place that time is going to be spent is at Richmond. He is not the worse player on our list, as you say may even be the 8th best player at the club, but the way we should be looking at it is by using the draft, delisting and by trading players that do actually have some value on the market we should be looking at having a list where Tivendale is our 25th best player at best.

[davey_23]

Dowler would be a good fit.
195cms tall who has been playing forward and back.
Was a richmond supporter as a kid and absolutely loves Richo.

I wouldnt pay to much for him though, he has been very average in the VFL this year but everyone who saw him play TAC Cup knows what he can do.

PSD maybe?

[benny_furs]

Sheez Benny, I can at times be a bit of a fan of your work at times, but that's a shocker. You speak of Dowler's being in a car accident as something that should endear us to him as a footballer.

Trade Riewoldt ?! Pick 1??!! Has Dowler even tried on a Hawthorn jumper yet?

Let Hawthorn try and find a way of turning him into a senior footballer.

Has Riewoldt lost trade value? Technically, he has done nothing at AFL... maybe we should trade him for Pick 24? That is similar to the Dowler situation.

Someone else brought up the Dowler scenario. I just didn't think Hawthorn would think it is realistic. :thumbsu:

Well Dowler might not be exactly happy at the Hawks! They have plenty of emerging talls around the same age ! & just because you were a early draft pick doesn't mean you will get the same in return (ie Meyer) I know pick 17 might not satisfy the Hawks,but over on pre there are some whispers that he has spoken to Miller (who knows if true) & pick 17 might be better than nothing.

We can't trade our PP under the new rules, we can only trade pick 19 or 1.

We could upgrade (which there have been whispers of us wanting to do this if possible) and trade the upgrade of say 19 to 13. I guess since we have a knife to their throat by having first pick in the PSD if Dowler really wanted out and only wanted to come to Richmond we could screw Hawthorn over. Maybe Pick 19 + Meyer?

In dream world we would pick up Dowler in the PSD :p Come on D-man cross over to the better team of youngsters, you'll be a star with us and won't get a game with them!

Hehe, this is where I love having Greg Miller at Richmond. He is the master of getting players to Tigerland and with negotiations etc..

[polakthetiger]

Two articles on news.com.au today with interesting information on both Meeson and Charman.

Seems Meeson has been given an ultimatum to perform in the next 10 weeks or he is gone. If he does want to come back to Melbourne, we may not need to be talking much trading after all. (whether he is worth it is another question-but surely if it a matter of simply a place on the list- Kingsley who?).

And Charman is interested in coming back to Melbourne, apparently our Lion drop ins on this subject although very vocal about his business interests in QLD, failed to mention his romantic interests in Melbourne:thumbsu:

Bring both in I say;)

[GhostofJimJess]

copy that ghost, but you might want to copy this, the common denominator in all that group is that yes they were ordinary and yes the teams they were traded from were not. Can you see the difference yet?;)

Do I see the difference? I actually pointed it out!

I was illustrating a point that a footballer tends to be automatically held in lower esteem at trade time than a possibly lesser footballer who has been fortunate enough, usually through no fault of his own, to have found himself at a successful club.

Which doesn't stack up too well for the Tigers when trading out this year, I concur. But it doesn't mean Greg Tivendale, for instance, is of lesser value than Josh Wooden ... just that the football world will be more likely to see things that way.

Personally, I reckon you might be better off trading with less successful clubs. That's how top notch players such as Peter Bell, NBrown, Gehrig (the Eags were s**t when he was collared by the Saints), Croad, McPhee and Hall came to be recruited at very affordable prices.

Blokes that "have Premiership experience" very rarely recapture such form at their new clubs who have paid a premium for their services because they are Premiership players. Eg. KJohnson, Headland, Carey, Aker, Blumfield, Caracella, Eccles etc. It tends to become something of a testimonial period for them. It just pays for their holiday house on the Sunshine Coast.


Well Dowler might not be exactly happy at the Hawks!

I don't know Beau Dowler and I've never even seen him play. But forgetting his onfield potential for a moment, I'm a bit confused how an 18 or 19 year old who has missed his entire first season last year because of a serious car accident, and hasn't been picked in the starting 22 of a team that has hardly put a foot wrong all this year, has earned the right to be "not exactly happy about such a predicament?

If he is indeed grumpy at his regular non-appearance in the Hawk senior team in 2007, then he's a young upstart with an over-inflated opinion of himself.


Has Riewoldt lost trade value? Technically, he has done nothing at AFL... maybe we should trade him for Pick 24? That is similar to the Dowler situation.

Someone else brought up the Dowler scenario. I just didn't think Hawthorn would think it is realistic. :thumbsu:

Now I'm really confused.

Anyone endorsing giving up No.1 pick in the National Draft for a No.4 (?) pick from two years earlier who has not yet played a game either through a very serious injury or just simply not being good enough to get a regular game at his current club has rocks in his head.

That would be like Carlton last year giving up No.1 pick (which was always going to be Bryce Gibbs) for Richie Tambling. Or the previous year sacrificing Murphy for Farren Ray or Tim Walsh.

As for Jack Riewoldt, he has the same value now as he had when we grabbed him at No.13 last November. Maybe even a tad more, as he seems to have coped quite well in the AFL environment and shown the capacity to work hard around a club despite limited success. That is quite an admirable trait in a young bloke, and not necessarily the case with all of them. Why would you now only rate him at Pick 24 now?

How about we just keep our top picks and grab the best 17 or 18 year olds in this years draft.

[benny_furs]

Now I'm really confused.

Anyone endorsing giving up No.1 pick in the National Draft for a No.4 (?) pick from two years earlier who has not yet played a game either through a very serious injury or just simply not being good enough to get a regular game at his current club has rocks in his head.


You have mis-read my posts, I never said I'd give up the #1 pick for Dowler :thumbsu: You must think I'm insane lol

If we were to lose pick 1 we would be downgrading in order to get 2 very good players instead of 1. Eg. Pick 1 for Dowler + Pick 12

[PLSC]

You have mis-read my posts, I never said I'd give up the #1 pick for Dowler :thumbsu: You must think I'm insane lol

If we were to lose pick 1 we would be downgrading in order to get 2 very good players instead of 1. Eg. Pick 1 for Dowler + Pick 12

its still stupid

[benny_furs]

its still stupid

I think expecting to get Dowler for pick 19 is stupid.

Go to the Hawthorn board and see if they would take it.

[eyeofthetiger]

dont worry about dowler....another hawk who was taken early n hasnt had much of a run..beau muston....ive seen him play at U18 hes a fkn gun was gonna go top 3 draft pick but he did hes knee so clubs lost interest.
but i reckon we should really go after a jamie graham from the west coast eagles.

[kainokaino]

our supporters are a joke,

you are not serious !!!!

you are talking about trading riewoldt

its the kids first year and hes played what 1 FRIGGEN GAME

you are talking like hes played 40 games for the club and hasnt done jack crap in any of them

richmond supporters please stop giving other clubs supporters even more reasons to laugh at us

[want2spoodge_pettifer]

our supporters are a joke,

you are not serious !!!!

you are talking about trading riewoldt

its the kids first year and hes played what 1 FRIGGEN GAME

you are talking like hes played 40 games for the club and hasnt done jack crap in any of them

richmond supporters please stop giving other clubs supporters even more reasons to laugh at us

couldn't agree more

[French Tiger]

I think expecting to get Dowler for pick 19 is stupid.

Go to the Hawthorn board and see if they would take it.

It's not weather they would take it,it's more we have the luxury of pick 1 in the psd,they might have to cut their losses & except it,that was the point!

[crashandbashruckmen]

It's not weather they would take it,it's more we have the luxury of pick 1 in the psd,they might have to cut their losses & except it,that was the point!

Miller and Dowler get on real well. Cosy in fact. ;)