View Full Version : What's the problem with Freo!
Freo1995
16 Jun 2007, 23:25
With the calibre of players we have, we should have won. Simple.
I'm totally filled with bewilderment :(:(:(
Drunk right now - will have to watch again tomorrow to see what the problem is
Dr Zoiburg
16 Jun 2007, 23:38
If something isnt working we keep trying and at the end of the game it still does not work and we lose.
raffrox
16 Jun 2007, 23:47
Drunk right now - will have to watch again tomorrow to see what the problem is
Best post of the night. :thumbsu:
Dominating the game and kicking 3.7 in a quarter from basic shots might be somewhere to start.
Keep the faith guys. We are just a little unlucky at the moment.
The boys and CC are working hard. It will turn for us, with a great run home and then a good finals run. We have the ability and players to match the top four teams.
Two games out of the 8 and 3 off the top four. Very reachable with our squad and CC leading.
Cheetah
17 Jun 2007, 00:25
Keep the faith guys. We are just a little unlucky at the moment.
The boys and CC are working hard. It will turn for us, with a great run home and then a good finals run. We have the ability and players to match the top four teams.
Two games out of the 8 and 3 off the top four. Very reachable with our squad and CC leading.
The Ox is way too slow my friend and the earth just ain't that patient!
Keep the faith guys. We are just a little unlucky at the moment.
The boys and CC are working hard. It will turn for us, with a great run home and then a good finals run. We have the ability and players to match the top four teams.
Two games out of the 8 and 3 off the top four. Very reachable with our squad and CC leading.
when you have a player (Dodd i think) who kicks a goal when you are four goals down with five minutes to play and he runs around with a big grin on his face high fiving people people you are going nowhere.
nezasaur
17 Jun 2007, 03:33
It was his first goal of the year. Anyone with a heart would have done the same.
estibador
17 Jun 2007, 03:39
It was his first goal of the year.
And only the second goal of his career I think.
dominguez
17 Jun 2007, 04:09
Keep the faith guys. We are just a little unlucky at the moment.
The boys and CC are working hard. It will turn for us, with a great run home and then a good finals run. We have the ability and players to match the top four teams.
Two games out of the 8 and 3 off the top four. Very reachable with our squad and CC leading.
You're a stooge Dwayo.
campbell
17 Jun 2007, 10:01
Drunk right now - will have to watch again tomorrow to see what the problem is
Excellent post. You poor buggers.
campbell
17 Jun 2007, 10:03
Dominating the game and kicking 3.7 in a quarter from basic shots might be somewhere to start.
Who is your forwards coach, and what happened to your biomachanist?
A hard gig to win that one though. I have friends in Darwin, its hot and steamy, really steamy.You ran out of legs, it looked like to me watching.
Am I allowed to say get Vossy as the coach next year.
Docker_Brat
17 Jun 2007, 11:21
Keep the faith guys. We are just a little unlucky at the moment.
What was Daicos' comment on people who said he was "lucky"...
JoondalupJ
17 Jun 2007, 13:09
when you have a player (Dodd i think) who kicks a goal when you are four goals down with five minutes to play and he runs around with a big grin on his face high fiving people people you are going nowhere.
Saw that smacks of self service.
It was his first goal of the year. Anyone with a heart would have done the same.
Thats the problem, too many putting themselves before the team!
Dr Ralph Dagg
17 Jun 2007, 13:31
when you have a player (Dodd i think) who kicks a goal when you are four goals down with five minutes to play and he runs around with a big grin on his face high fiving people people you are going nowhere.
So your main complaint is that a player who you're not sure of is smiling after kicking a goal? This signifies we are going nowhere? Is that it?
Dr Ralph Dagg
17 Jun 2007, 13:38
My view is the same as last weeks -- when it counts we can't get our hands on the ball. We got smashed in the clearances in that final quarter. When there was contested ball the Bulldogs generally came away with it. Its been that way for most of the season.
There are a couple of the issues. We still miss targets and are too slow in counter defense.
Dr Ralph Dagg
17 Jun 2007, 14:04
And some of you will remember my theory that we don't win unless we have 50 tackles. 41 last night. I suspect they were a wee bit quick for us.
Parry St.
17 Jun 2007, 14:21
Thats the problem, too many putting themselves before the team!
3qtr time; WB 96pts F 95pts
Highest paid player, captian, Sunday Times columnist, club spokesperson and considering going home at end of 2007.
Last qtr stats Kicks 0 Handballs 0
the games is up for the winning and pav goes missing.
Yet, his employer, the Sunday Times puts him 4th best on ground!
That's what wrong with the club. yes he got 3 goals but so did Mitch Hahn in 30mins less time on the ground, and he didn't get a vote with the same paper.
That's whats wrong. Last week same thing... didn't kick a goal until the team were 2 points in front in the last qtr.
You guys will probably jump all over me but there's a bit of truth in Grant Thomas's comments. Our most lauded player did zip when the game needed to be won.
Get stuck into me but if in doing so, you decide to watch Pav and Pav only for a whole game as I do, you will see what I see. No chase, shit body language when things don't go his way, no fire... except when he does something good, then he's happy... for himself. And this guy's leading our club.
As Wall's said during the week, he's a thinker, not a rugged reckless player. In fact, think about it, how many games has he missed through impact injury? Cos he rarely puts his body in a position where that can happen, out on the flanks and up the ground on the wings. Maybe thats the freo plan, but it's a waste of talent.
Discuss and shoot holes in my arguement, but I've been seeing it for years now and I reckon he's on the wind down and has decided that he's leaving his job here at the end of the year.
Dr Ralph Dagg
17 Jun 2007, 14:32
3qtr time; WB 96pts F 95pts
Highest paid player, captian, Sunday Times columnist, club spokesperson and considering going home at end of 2007.
Last qtr stats Kicks 0 Handballs 0
Get stuck into me but if in doing so, you decide to watch Pav and Pav only for a whole game as I do, you will see what I see. No chase, shit body language when things don't go his way, no fire... except when he does something good, then he's happy... for himself. And this guy's leading our club.
Discuss and shoot holes in my arguement, but I've been seeing it for years now and I reckon he's on the wind down and has decided that he's leaving his job here at the end of the year.
I'd be interested in you having a look at the tape and having a look at he delivery he gets. Especially in the last quarter. He gets double- and triple-teamed. He never gets a free kick. I'm not sure if you go to games. I do and I know he works his butt off and hes very important in setting up the structures in the forward line.
As for grant thomas nearly every media commentator in the game came out and said he is a goose.
3qtr time; WB 96pts F 95pts
Highest paid player, captian, Sunday Times columnist, club spokesperson and considering going home at end of 2007.
Last qtr stats Kicks 0 Handballs 0
the games is up for the winning and pav goes missing.
Yet, his employer, the Sunday Times puts him 4th best on ground!
That's what wrong with the club. yes he got 3 goals but so did Mitch Hahn in 30mins less time on the ground, and he didn't get a vote with the same paper.
That's whats wrong. Last week same thing... didn't kick a goal until the team were 2 points in front in the last qtr.
You guys will probably jump all over me but there's a bit of truth in Grant Thomas's comments. Our most lauded player did zip when the game needed to be won.
Get stuck into me but if in doing so, you decide to watch Pav and Pav only for a whole game as I do, you will see what I see. No chase, shit body language when things don't go his way, no fire... except when he does something good, then he's happy... for himself. And this guy's leading our club.
As Wall's said during the week, he's a thinker, not a rugged reckless player. In fact, think about it, how many games has he missed through impact injury? Cos he rarely puts his body in a position where that can happen, out on the flanks and up the ground on the wings. Maybe thats the freo plan, but it's a waste of talent.
Discuss and shoot holes in my arguement, but I've been seeing it for years now and I reckon he's on the wind down and has decided that he's leaving his job here at the end of the year.
I must've been dreaming his 80m chase down of Farren Ray...
estibador
17 Jun 2007, 14:43
I must've been dreaming his 80m chase down of Farren Ray...
Never let reality interfere with preconceived ideas Lachy. Don't you listen to any of the media?
Parry St.
17 Jun 2007, 14:46
I'd be interested in you having a look at the tape and having a look at he delivery he gets. Especially in the last quarter. He gets double- and triple-teamed. He never gets a free kick. I'm not sure if you go to games. I do and I know he works his butt off and hes very important in setting up the structures in the forward line.
As for grant thomas nearly every media commentator in the game came out and said he is a goose.
Dagg,
Youv'e probably played a bit of the game;
delivery is about a0getting yourself into a position so that the kicker can deliver it too you... I watched last week where he was leading to hard spots for the ball carrier to kick to. Guys like Johnson and Peake get themselves into positions where it is easy for the ball carrier to kick it to them. You can't always blame poor delivery, the kicker will kick it to the option that has the greatest chance of being a successful disposal.
As for double and tripple teamed, that was exposed last week as being a complete old wives tale. Last week he only ever had one player on him. Get the tape, see for yourself. To get double teamed, you need to have one backman prepared to loose his man and double up or put in a secondary spoil. That never happened last week.
Free kicks are for people that put pressure on the ball carrier, you put on tackels and head over the ball, you get free kicks.
he's very important to our forward structures, yes I hear that, can you explain that to me, how is he? What did he do last night within the forward structure that was important. tell me what the plan is for him, because it seems the plan isn't working (because the team lost) or he isn't following the plan correctly. Do you know what important role he does?
As for Grant Thomas being a goose, I'd agree with that too, but it was funny that a guy with heaps more knoweledge about footy than you and me would be thinking the same as me.
chook2734
17 Jun 2007, 14:47
I'd be interested in you having a look at the tape and having a look at he delivery he gets. Especially in the last quarter. He gets double- and triple-teamed. He never gets a free kick. I'm not sure if you go to games. I do and I know he works his butt off and hes very important in setting up the structures in the forward line.
As for grant thomas nearly every media commentator in the game came out and said he is a goose.
Dr Dagg you are spot on with this. Too many of our players kick the ball long and high into the forward line and expect Taz or Pav to pluck it out of the sky whilst fending off 3 or 4 opposition players. It's not good enough. One of our very very few players who does actually deliver the ball to Pav's chest is Solomon - obviously something he learnt at Essendon. If you compare the delivery to Pav with the delivery Brad Johnson received, you wouldn't be complaining about Pav's efforts.
chook2734
17 Jun 2007, 14:52
As for double and tripple teamed, that was exposed last week as being a complete old wives tale. Last week he only ever had one player on him. Get the tape, see for yourself. To get double teamed, you need to have one backman prepared to loose his man and double up or put in a secondary spoil. That never happened last week.
.
Did you watch the game last week? Richmond had at least 2 loose men in our forward line for most of the game until we manned them up in the last quarter. It was purely the fact that none of them are any good that they still couldn't stop Pav.
Free kicks are for people that put pressure on the ball carrier, you put on tackels and head over the ball, you get free kicks..
What about players who get held onto in contests, or the time last night where a Bulldog ran front on at Pav with his back to the ball - don't they deserve a free kick? Or does that only apply when it's our backmen on the opposition's forwards? (I know it does with the umpires, but you'd think our supporters may consider we deserve to be treated the same as our opponents.)
Parry St.
17 Jun 2007, 14:52
Dr Dagg you are spot on with this. Too many of our players kick the ball long and high into the forward line and expect Taz or Pav to pluck it out of the sky whilst fending off 3 or 4 opposition players. It's not good enough. One of our very very few players who does actually deliver the ball to Pav's chest is Solomon - obviously something he learnt at Essendon. If you compare the delivery to Pav with the delivery Brad Johnson received, you wouldn't be complaining about Pav's efforts.
You telling me that Johnson's one hander was delivered exactly where he wants it. Pav's got heaps more talent than Johnson, just Johnson's got a ticker and playes for a club that's always one season from going under. The guys a fighter and plays with passion.
chook2734
17 Jun 2007, 14:56
You telling me that Johnson's one hander was delivered exactly where he wants it. Pav's got heaps more talent than Johnson, just Johnson's got a ticker and playes for a club that's always one season from going under. The guys a fighter and plays with passion.
Wow, he made the most of the one kick to him that wasn't to his advantage.
Have you actually watched Pavlich for more than five minutes? The guy gives his all for this club. It's people like you who make you wonder why he bothers.
Parry St.
17 Jun 2007, 15:06
Wow, he made the most of the one kick to him that wasn't to his advantage.
Have you actually watched Pavlich for more than five minutes? The guy gives his all for this club. It's people like you who make you wonder why he bothers.
Chook, I go to every home game, and as you can tell, keep a keen eye on Pav. You have missed the initial reason for my post. No stats in the last qtr of a must win game. You can say what you like about delivery, double team etc etc, but the facts are he went missing. (and got votes in the game- rewarding mederocracy?)
I have gardening to do but with regards to your last quote, Pavs got 400,000 more reasons than me to bother playing footy. I doubt he gives a shit what I think, it's just my view, I just reckon he's wasted in our team.
estibador
17 Jun 2007, 15:30
I just reckon he's wasted in our team.
Well make up your mind. Is he wasted in the team (implying we don't deliver it to him properly) or is does he go missing because he doesn't work hard enough?
Frigate
17 Jun 2007, 16:35
Is to keep saying we are not far from our best the same as saying, at least we are competitive? Richmond are competitive.
At what point did Connolly and Co. not see that long kicking into the forward line was not working? It gave them such momentum coming out of defense.
Farmer would have got us over the line. Unfortunately he might be coming back too late to resurrect this season.
GentlemanJeff
17 Jun 2007, 17:20
The problem with Freo is the Coaching staff.
Cuddles was completely out coached by Rodney Eade on Saturday. The problem with Cuddles is that he has no plan b. If things start going wrong, he is unable to make the necessary adjustments.
I think we need to face facts. We will NEVER win a premiership with Cuddles as coach. Everyone on this board should ask themselves: Is Chris Connoly premiership material?
I think the answer is clearly no. Thats unfourtunate, but its the truth.
Alot of excuses get made for Cuddles. I think this is because the fans and the club are trying their best not to repeat the poor way in which the Drummy sacking was handled. But somewhere along the line you have to accept that Cuddles' performance is not acceptable.
6 years for only 1 finals win - and staring down the barrel of another lost season.
The window is closing. In a few years we will need to start the dreaded "rebuilding cycle". If we dont act now, we will be looking at atleast another 5 years before we can seriously challenge for a premiership.
sabre_ac
17 Jun 2007, 17:23
The problem is the 6 weeks suspension for breaking team rules was a ridiculous over kill by the club.
One look at our inside 50's and shots n goals suggests the midfield is not as big a problem as everyone keep's going on about.
When you have players like cook playing small forward's there is something misisng.
It is infuriating to think that someone like Farmer is relegated to the WAFL after an over reaction by the club.
GentlemanJeff
17 Jun 2007, 17:30
It is infuriating to think that someone like Farmer is relegated to the WAFL after an over reaction by the club.
yes yes yes, you are spot on.
The club got swept up in the "Cousins gate" scandal and completely over reacted and threw the book at Jeffrey.
Sure the club got some public relations spin out of that. But we have lost several games now where you cant help but think - "I wonder if Jeffrey would have swung the game our way".
Look at our position now. We are facing another lost season. Another season of under achieving. The window is closing, and we are another season closer to having to begin the "rebuilding phase".
Maybe the club can get on a roll in the second half of the year. But, I think the best case scenario is that we will just scrape into the 8.
Its just so dissapointing.
Kickin_Goals
17 Jun 2007, 17:35
You weren't at Adelaide's training this week.
Adelaide has exactly the same problems you do going forward but poorer targets.
If there are 3 players on Pav why kick to him you clearly have 2 players free make them accountable and then by all means kick it to Pav's actual advantage and he will win them the game.
Farmer was seemingly the only player with awareness for Freo last year, pretty sure if Pav is being double teamed he would be leading his opponents somewhere that he shouldn't be kicked to.
GentlemanJeff
17 Jun 2007, 17:52
Is there any other current coach in the AFL that has got such a poor record (6 years for 1 finals win) and still managed to keep their job?
Brettox
17 Jun 2007, 17:57
Keep the faith guys. We are just a little unlucky at the moment.
The boys and CC are working hard. It will turn for us, with a great run home and then a good finals run. We have the ability and players to match the top four teams.
Two games out of the 8 and 3 off the top four. Very reachable with our squad and CC leading.
Only 4 and a half games off the bottom. My money is on them heading that way.
I am glad I stayed a Carlton supporter because it is easier to watch them getting thrashed by 100 points than to watch another Dockers capitulation. In the whole time the Dockers have been in existence they have only had one half of a season that has been any good.
Midfield, midfield, midfield. Their best midfielders in Bell and Carr they had to give up so much for with the trades as well as Headland, they would have been in a much better position if they had of just kept the draft picks and players they lost.
Freo Hitman
17 Jun 2007, 18:02
Thats the problem, too many putting themselves before the team!
Name names
Freo Hitman
17 Jun 2007, 18:03
nd Carr they had to give up so much for with the trades as well as Headland, they would have been in a much better position if they had of just kept the draft picks and players they lost.
that can be argued
GentlemanJeff
17 Jun 2007, 18:08
Going down the retrospective path is utterly pointless.
Had we kept the picks, who knows what players we would have taken. Sure they may ahve been great, or we may have picked up duds.
I dont think there is alot wrong with the current list. Any other AFL coach would love to get their hands on our list.
Our list is underperforming, but the talent is there.
I dont think we should be taking recruitment advice from a Cartlon supporter anyway. Whats Brettox's solution - Breach the salary cap and go all out for another midfielder? yeah good on you mate.
macka6210
17 Jun 2007, 18:10
i was never too good at maths at school but if i rember correctly on the football field its 18 v 18 if pav or taz are being double or triple teamed where is that players apponent ???but do agree the quick fix of bell and carr has run its race and they werent the pacey midfield we needed
Freo Hitman
17 Jun 2007, 18:18
i was never too good at maths at school but if i rember correctly on the football field its 18 v 18 if pav or taz are being double or triple teamed where is that players apponent ???but do agree the quick fix of bell and carr has run its race and they werent the pacey midfield we needed
Dont blame players here . Connolly got outcoached badly yet again. Last week we were lucky Richmond ran out of legs . This week I heard an interesting comment from Chris Connolly saying Rodney Eade coached against his oppositions weaknesses . So what does CC do ,takes a punt and trys the game plan the western bulldogs love , the free flowing shoot out. and at half time when the warning bells were ringing you think he wouldve tried to slow the pace of the game down so we could show our class ??? NO he kept it going right to the very end. PATHETIC . Everyweek our midfield get outpointed by lack of leg speed and yet when Farmer and Schammer comes back and midfield structure still will not change , our half back line gets exposed by our midfields lack of pace aswell as there ability to lock the ball in week in week out .
Connolly probably has little left in his repertoire to get this team firing.
Brettox
17 Jun 2007, 19:03
Going down the retrospective path is utterly pointless.
Had we kept the picks, who knows what players we would have taken. Sure they may ahve been great, or we may have picked up duds.
I dont think there is alot wrong with the current list. Any other AFL coach would love to get their hands on our list.
Our list is underperforming, but the talent is there.
I dont think we should be taking recruitment advice from a Cartlon supporter anyway. Whats Brettox's solution - Breach the salary cap and go all out for another midfielder? yeah good on you mate.
Yeah dude, great comeback. Mate I have watched more Dockers games and against my better judgement have supported them. I think Connolly is doing the best he can with just about the most unaccountable midfield in the competition.
Carlton have paid a heavy price for their player payments rorting.
If you are talking about recruiting, I think Phil Smart is a complete joke and the only reason that Pavlich is at Freo is because Richmond have an even worse recruiting department. Otherwise Fiora may be running around underachieving in Purple like the rest of them.
Name names
I was replying to Seadog's post.
Parry St., listen up and listen good.
Pavlich is the only thing keeping this team together (on the field at least). If he gets injured (touch wood) then you'll see how shite we can be. Pav isn't perfect, but you're off the mark with your argument. Yes, he does on occasions display poor body language or not chase hard.
But I think the ONLY criticism that can be levelled at him this year is in regards to goalkicking. And that is a mental thing - he has the whole pressure of being the captain, the top goalkicker and our best player.
If Pav goes, we are in deep s**t.:(
bulldogrob
17 Jun 2007, 21:47
Its as simple as this. YOU WERE BEATEN BY A BETTER TEAM!!!
You had 1 more direct scoring shot than us.
darrend05
17 Jun 2007, 21:52
the problem with freo is that they are really peel thunder in disguise.
Freo Shark
17 Jun 2007, 21:58
the problem with freo is that they are really peel thunder in disguise.
If you havent got anything intelligent and constructive then **** off this board !!!
Parry St.
17 Jun 2007, 22:27
Parry St., listen up and listen good.
Pavlich is the only thing keeping this team together (on the field at least). If he gets injured (touch wood) then you'll see how shite we can be. Pav isn't perfect, but you're off the mark with your argument. Yes, he does on occasions display poor body language or not chase hard.
But I think the ONLY criticism that can be levelled at him this year is in regards to goalkicking. And that is a mental thing - he has the whole pressure of being the captain, the top goalkicker and our best player.
If Pav goes, we are in deep s**t.:(
Utter speculation... It's never been tried... Bit like saying Australia wouldn't survive without Steve Waugh or Taylor. That's the spin people would have you believe. To get zero touches in the last quarter last night was unacceptable. Why?... read below...
Dockers make Pavlich progress
By Kim Hagdorn
June 17, 2007
FREMANTLE club management made ground last week towards reaching an agreement to keep captain Matthew Pavlich beyond this season.
The Dockers are poised to offer Pavlich about $800,000 a year in a new three-year deal.
Considerations over the next month on the future of Dockers coach Chris Connolly will have significant bearing on Pavlich's deal. The forward is expected to play a pivotal role with board members and management as Connolly's future is weighed up.
$800K
It's because the club see him as some sort of messiahic saviour to all their problems. If the report is correct, what would a key position player, with, as you put it... mental problems from all the stress of earning so much money... be doing helping the board and management. Sounds like more Schwab left handed management. If he's that good, give him the coaching job as well. You could run around tieing up his precious boot laces.
chook2734
17 Jun 2007, 22:39
Utter speculation... It's never been tried... Bit like saying Australia wouldn't survive without Steve Waugh or Taylor. That's the spin people would have you believe. To get zero touches in the last quarter last night was unacceptable. Why?... read below...
Dockers make Pavlich progress
By Kim Hagdorn
June 17, 2007
FREMANTLE club management made ground last week towards reaching an agreement to keep captain Matthew Pavlich beyond this season.
The Dockers are poised to offer Pavlich about $800,000 a year in a new three-year deal.
Considerations over the next month on the future of Dockers coach Chris Connolly will have significant bearing on Pavlich's deal. The forward is expected to play a pivotal role with board members and management as Connolly's future is weighed up.
$800K
It's because the club see him as some sort of messiahic saviour to all their problems. If the report is correct, what would a key position player, with, as you put it... mental problems from all the stress of earning so much money... be doing helping the board and management. Sounds like more Schwab left handed management. If he's that good, give him the coaching job as well. You could run around tieing up his precious boot laces.
It's no wonder you think Pav is a goose if you believe everything you read in the sunday slimes.
I don't doubt that there is a possibility that the board may consult some of the senior players in regards to the coaching position (pretty commonplace to give feedback on your managers in most jobs I would think), but the final decision will be made where it should be made - in the boardroom by the board members.
Can I ask a question? If you don't think Pav gives his all and is not really that important to the team, who (if anyone) do you like or rate at Freo?
estibador
17 Jun 2007, 22:42
The forward is expected to play a pivotal role with board members and management as Connolly's future is weighed up.
Interesting. If true that's probably not good news for CC.
I've always gotten the impression that Pav doesn't rate CC's coaching all that highly. I've got absolutely no evidence to back that up of course, or even a good reason for thinking so. It's just a vibe I get.
Parry St.
17 Jun 2007, 23:00
It's no wonder you think Pav is a goose if you believe everything you read in the sunday slimes.
I don't doubt that there is a possibility that the board may consult some of the senior players in regards to the coaching position (pretty commonplace to give feedback on your managers in most jobs I would think), but the final decision will be made where it should be made - in the boardroom by the board members.
Can I ask a question? If you don't think Pav gives his all and is not really that important to the team, who (if anyone) do you like or rate at Freo?
Chook, read the article again, no mention of consulting Pav on coaching position.
Players I rate are;
Johnson
Webster
Peake
Hasleby
Hayden
Bell
Crowley
Don't see how that changes the position on things.
chook2734
17 Jun 2007, 23:06
Chook, read the article again, no mention of consulting Pav on coaching position.
Players I rate are;
Johnson
Webster
Peake
Hasleby
Hayden
Bell
Crowley
Don't see how that changes the position on things.
I'm sorry, unless I'm confusing what you have said with what the article said, the bit where it says Considerations over the next month on the future of Dockers coach Chris Connolly will have significant bearing on Pavlich's deal. The forward is expected to play a pivotal role with board members and management as Connolly's future is weighed up. suggests that Pavlich will be consulted in regards to the coaching position?
Keyser Soze
17 Jun 2007, 23:26
The Dockers are poised to offer Pavlich about $800,000 a year in a new three-year deal.
This is off topic, but
If reports that Judd can command $1mil per year are true then this is a bargain.
Freo Blood
18 Jun 2007, 00:43
Dont blame players here . Connolly got outcoached badly yet again. Last week we were lucky Richmond ran out of legs . This week I heard an interesting comment from Chris Connolly saying Rodney Eade coached against his oppositions weaknesses . So what does CC do ,takes a punt and trys the game plan the western bulldogs love , the free flowing shoot out. and at half time when the warning bells were ringing you think he wouldve tried to slow the pace of the game down so we could show our class ??? NO he kept it going right to the very end. PATHETIC . Everyweek our midfield get outpointed by lack of leg speed and yet when Farmer and Schammer comes back and midfield structure still will not change , our half back line gets exposed by our midfields lack of pace aswell as there ability to lock the ball in week in week out .
Unfortunately I agree with this somewhat. We know we have a slowish midfield but at home can generally run over teams because of fitness and oppo's having to travel the Nullabor. We therefore seem to think we have a strong running game.
A feeling of foreboding came over me after the 1/4 time break when Broadbridge said the game was developing into a run and gun style which the dogs preferred and we also liked. We took them on in the rungin challenge! Eade built that team specifically to play running footy and for us to try and match them was going to be very difficult. Perhaps the ground was going to be too big to shut them down anyway and that is defiinatly not our preferred style.
We were not in the game in the final quarter because we could not make it too the contests and couldn't stop their run into an open forward line.
dominguez
18 Jun 2007, 00:52
Interesting. If true that's probably not good news for CC.
I've always gotten the impression that Pav doesn't rate CC's coaching all that highly. I've got absolutely no evidence to back that up of course, or even a good reason for thinking so. It's just a vibe I get.
I agree estibador. It was interesting that Robertson and Neitz went into bat for Daniher straight after their first win. We won't see any Freo players publicly backing Connolly over the next fortnight unless a journo asks them the question.
Bell, McManus and the Carr's quite clearly don't rate Connolly.
dominguez
18 Jun 2007, 00:54
A feeling of foreboding came over me after the 1/4 time break when Broadbridge said the game was developing into a run and gun style which the dogs preferred and we also liked. We took them on in the rungin challenge!
Broadbridge is a clown.
1. The Aboriginals and the Korean tried, with the exception of Des who was typically weak.
2. I would like Pavlich to get the ball himself one day. You know... bend. Chase if he feels up to it. Leading is optional with Belly around.
3. I would like the fifty or so people in the coaches box to maybe make the odd change. Just one change. Moving Pavlich when the heat is on is useless, because as we know when the going gets tough the Pav gets going.
4. I would like the fifty or so cooks that consistently ruin our broth to start considering Freo as ONE team. Do not break up into mini packs at quarter time to discuss strategy for the forwards, backs etc. We lack COHESION. Less is more.
5. It was demented to leave Cook in the pocket.
6. Haselby is best on the bench. He was not fast enough. If he is not fit, then he should not be playing.
7. We need psychiatrists not coaches. Bunch of spoilt precious frat boys - who spend too much time in the TAB. Stop into Cottesloe TAB if you want to see where they are after training.
8. I have had enough.
9. 13 days to Jeff.
1. The Aboriginals and the Korean tried, with the exception of Des who was typically weak.
2. I would like Pavlich to get the ball himself one day. You know... bend. Chase if he feels up to it. Leading is optional with Belly around.
3. I would like the fifty or so people in the coaches box to maybe make the odd change. Just one change. Moving Pavlich when the heat is on is useless, because as we know when the going gets tough the Pav gets going.
4. I would like the fifty or so cooks that consistently ruin our broth to start considering Freo as ONE team. Do not break up into mini packs at quarter time to discuss strategy for the forwards, backs etc. We lack COHESION. Less is more.
5. It was demented to leave Cook in the pocket.
6. Haselby is best on the bench. He was not fast enough. If he is not fit, then he should not be playing.
7. We need psychiatrists not coaches. Bunch of spoilt precious frat boys - who spend too much time in the TAB. Stop into Cottesloe TAB if you want to see where they are after training.
8. I have had enough.
9. 13 days to Jeff.
Interesting...totally demented but interesting nonetheless...
Thanks.
Our team needs heart. Haselby has it, but I am not sure that it is worthwhile paying that amount of cash to someone with such injury problems.
I stand by my Pavlich remarks. As you know he is captain now.
Thanks.
Our team needs heart. Haselby has it, but I am not sure that it is worthwhile paying that amount of cash to someone with such injury problems.
I stand by my Pavlich remarks. As you know he is captain now.
I'm not certain he's injured...he has short stubbly leg issues.
I have had him in our top 10 most weeks.
...and why is it, Esti and I seem to be the only ones who saw Pavlich chase Farren Ray for 80 meters and catch him?
Which I also think is an indictment on the pace of Farren ray and those who think he's quick enough to be traded for...
Yeah, fair enough point Lach.
I didn't see Pav much at all in the final quarter. I didn't see him run 80 metres. If he did then he should do it more often. That is my problem with him. If he was my friend I think he would be described as the fair weathered kind. I do not question his ability for a moment.
Haselby has been in your top ten, because the rest are shit. He is older, this is why I single him out.
Anyone that doesn't rate Haze has no business discussing football.
get a tape of the game or the game V Collinwood, watch the stoppages slowly, play by play. Look for the bits where the ball appears from inside a pack and lands in the arms of a Freo player. Slow the tape down, have a look who is inside the pack, the one that fed the ball out. Do that for a few matches then come back and talk about Haze.
dominguez
18 Jun 2007, 08:32
In the last 2 games the opposition have scored the first goal in every quarter. The odds on that happening are 256 to 1. It shows that whatever is being said pre-game and at the breaks isn't getting through, and that it takes a goal from the opposition to wake us up. :(
relapse
18 Jun 2007, 09:37
Keep the faith guys. We are just a little unlucky at the moment.
The boys and CC are working hard. It will turn for us, with a great run home and then a good finals run. We have the ability and players to match the top four teams.
Two games out of the 8 and 3 off the top four. Very reachable with our squad and CC leading.
That is the sort of mentality that plauges Freo from my outside opinion. The days of near enough is good enough are gone. I thought Freo would challenge for the flag, but it has gone belly up, when the chips are down away from home Freo just dont seem to step to the plate (this year) I have no idea why, but it was pretty obvious in both the Bullies and Collingwood games that Freo were going to evenutally get run over the top of, I have no idea why especially with their talent.
Its easy to say everything will be alright etc, but there are 10 games to go Freo are currently at 5-7 after twelve games. 12 games will get you in the 8 this year I think so realistically Freo might have to win 7 out of the last their last 10 games just to slip into the 8. When you look at the fact that Freo have the following games over the next ten weeks which Freo will start the underdogs
Sydney SCG
Adelaide AAMI
Geelong Subiaco
WCE Subiaco
Port Adelaide AAMI
There is also an away fixture against St Kilda which will be tough, but is winnable.
There are four games at home which Freo should win against Melb, Essendon, Kangas and Carlton.
So to make the 8 in all seriousness Freo will need to win its 4 easy games at home and have to win three additional games that i listed above. Its not going to be easy at all unless there is a massive turn around in form I can see Freo winning about ten games for the year.
I have no idea where it went wrong, but I will say that if Freo do only win 10 games then Cuddles has to be the first one out the door, unacceptable IMO.
Anyone that doesn't rate Haze has no business discussing football.
get a tape of the game or the game V Collinwood, watch the stoppages slowly, play by play. Look for the bits where the ball appears from inside a pack and lands in the arms of a Freo player. Slow the tape down, have a look who is inside the pack, the one that fed the ball out. Do that for a few matches then come back and talk about Haze.
How about you get a tape and look at Acker in the final quarter.
I thought we played quite well for 3 quarters, making most of the play but failed to finish off. The one reason for this is the ridiculous long bomb into the forward line that kept getting picked off with monotonous regularity.
We need another leading forward, KIWI aor SPUD, it is the leading forwards who are getting the free kicks this season and they are much harder to double team. Thats why Id like to see Pav play from the goal square with KIWI or Spud. Two long leads with their respective half forward flankers responsible for the crumbs and Tarrant for the muscle with a small forward following the contest. Cookie for now, I thought he held the ball up very well on a few occasions Saturday night when the Doggies would have made a clean getaway. I think this will clear out our forward line which always looks like a bloody under twelves game down there, players everywhere.
Dr Ralph Dagg
18 Jun 2007, 12:21
That is the sort of mentality that plauges Freo from my outside opinion.
Obviously, you've only read the one post in the one thread.
Do we really look like a bunch of happy campers??
Dr Ralph Dagg
18 Jun 2007, 12:33
I thought we played quite well for 3 quarters, making most of the play but failed to finish off. The one reason for this is the ridiculous long bomb into the forward line that kept getting picked off with monotonous regularity.
I thought we lost. In a crucial game. Again. The style of play doesn't matter. We couldn't get over a team that hasn't been a finals contender for years.
We need another leading forward, KIWI aor SPUD, it is the leading forwards who are getting the free kicks this season and they are much harder to double team. Thats why Id like to see Pav play from the goal square with KIWI or Spud. Two long leads with their respective half forward flankers responsible for the crumbs and Tarrant for the muscle with a small forward following the contest. Cookie for now, I thought he held the ball up very well on a few occasions Saturday night when the Doggies would have made a clean getaway. I think this will clear out our forward line which always looks like a bloody under twelves game down there, players everywhere.
I don't think more forwards is going to cut it. They had Mundy down there and he just clogged things up a bit. We've also got Solomon and Des who are regular goal kickers. Bring back Jeff and we're set.
We need a revamp of the midfield.
I don't think more forwards is going to cut it. They had Mundy down there and he just clogged things up a bit. We've also got Solomon and Des who are regular goal kickers. Bring back Jeff and we're set.
We need a revamp of the midfield.
Im not suggesting more forwards, just a slight change in personnel and positioning, something like this maybe:
Jeffery (Cookie)-----Pav------Spud or KIWI
Headland-----------Taz-------Sollie
With the instruction for Pav to lead and not go body on body. Much harder to match up on.
I think you undersell the Doggies a bit they are a fair side. You are right about themidfield.
I personally think the heat chamber crap was just that, a total load of crap. I personally would like to be as fresh as possible for a game up in Darwin, arriving a few days early to acclimatise. My thoughts.
GentlemanJeff
18 Jun 2007, 13:27
Surely the off field incidents in Darwin will be the final straw for Connoly (?)
It is obvoius that the players no longer respect his authority. In fact, even Mark Harvey is getting into brawls now.
Cuddles' softly softly approach clearly hasnt worked. We need a coach that the players respect (even slightly fear).
I dont think the players respect Cuddles as an AFL coach.
Surely the off field incidents in Darwin will be the final straw for Connoly (?)
It is obvoius that the players no longer respect his authority. In fact, even Mark Harvey is getting into brawls now.
Cuddles' softly softly approach clearly hasnt worked. We need a coach that the players respect (even slightly fear).
I dont think the players respect Cuddles as an AFL coach.
Well, you've just confirmed you make idiotic arguments.
JoondalupJ
18 Jun 2007, 14:08
3qtr time; WB 96pts F 95pts
Highest paid player, captian, Sunday Times columnist, club spokesperson and considering going home at end of 2007.
Last qtr stats Kicks 0 Handballs 0
the games is up for the winning and pav goes missing.
Yet, his employer, the Sunday Times puts him 4th best on ground!
That's what wrong with the club. yes he got 3 goals but so did Mitch Hahn in 30mins less time on the ground, and he didn't get a vote with the same paper.
That's whats wrong. Last week same thing... didn't kick a goal until the team were 2 points in front in the last qtr.
You guys will probably jump all over me but there's a bit of truth in Grant Thomas's comments. Our most lauded player did zip when the game needed to be won.
Get stuck into me but if in doing so, you decide to watch Pav and Pav only for a whole game as I do, you will see what I see. No chase, shit body language when things don't go his way, no fire... except when he does something good, then he's happy... for himself. And this guy's leading our club.
As Wall's said during the week, he's a thinker, not a rugged reckless player. In fact, think about it, how many games has he missed through impact injury? Cos he rarely puts his body in a position where that can happen, out on the flanks and up the ground on the wings. Maybe thats the freo plan, but it's a waste of talent.
Discuss and shoot holes in my arguement, but I've been seeing it for years now and I reckon he's on the wind down and has decided that he's leaving his job here at the end of the year.
Courage, to make realistic comments about Pav. Good on you.I've seen that little bit your talking about. Thomas may have a little knowledge of people by watching certain things on feild.Pav is paid to be a hero whether real or not I personally don't think he is . And yes I've spotted his dummy spit, but he is a master at holding it in, when things run well he's great but when the squeeze is on well he doesn't always show . But doesn't he look good . If only he'd take a leaf out of a real hero at your club a tough little guy named Bell he is a genuine champion and never ever gives up the fight.If Freo had 22 Bells even if they were the same size as him they,d win a flag because he could
ruck rove and kick goals too!
JoondalupJ
18 Jun 2007, 14:43
Gentleman Jeff is correct. No one should have been anywhere they could get into anm argument . Its called dicipline. I remember a famous club where every player swore of the grog for entire seasons THATS SELF DICIPLINE.
YOUNG MEN WHO MAKE GREAT AMOUNTS OF MONEY OVER SHORT PERIODS OF YEARS SHOULD HAVE THE BRAINS AND DICIPLINE TO SACRIFICE "OUT ON THE TOWN" BEHAVIOR FOR SUCCESS ON THE FEILD. THERE IS NO EXCUSE
BAD BEHAVIOR SHOULD RESULT IN THA SACK . RECKON THAT'S TOO HARD
DO WE? WELL DOWN THE TRACK WHEN YOU WEED OUT THE RUBBISH SOME THING STRANGE HAPPENS! YOU START WINNING!YOUR PLAYERS ARE GENTLEMEN DOING GOOD BUSINESS. SO IS THE COACH DOING GOOD BUSINESS.FREO NEED A BIG CLEAN OUT INCLUDING SHWABB AND COHORTS
Minotaur
18 Jun 2007, 15:06
That is the sort of mentality that plauges Freo from my outside opinion. The days of near enough is good enough are gone. I thought Freo would challenge for the flag, but it has gone belly up, when the chips are down away from home Freo just dont seem to step to the plate (this year) I have no idea why, but it was pretty obvious in both the Bullies and Collingwood games that Freo were going to evenutally get run over the top of, I have no idea why especially with their talent.
Its easy to say everything will be alright etc, but there are 10 games to go Freo are currently at 5-7 after twelve games. 12 games will get you in the 8 this year I think so realistically Freo might have to win 7 out of the last their last 10 games just to slip into the 8. When you look at the fact that Freo have the following games over the next ten weeks which Freo will start the underdogs
Sydney SCG
Adelaide AAMI
Geelong Subiaco
WCE Subiaco
Port Adelaide AAMI
There is also an away fixture against St Kilda which will be tough, but is winnable.
There are four games at home which Freo should win against Melb, Essendon, Kangas and Carlton.
So to make the 8 in all seriousness Freo will need to win its 4 easy games at home and have to win three additional games that i listed above. Its not going to be easy at all unless there is a massive turn around in form I can see Freo winning about ten games for the year.
I have no idea where it went wrong, but I will say that if Freo do only win 10 games then Cuddles has to be the first one out the door, unacceptable IMO.
From the outside I too see this. I'm a Port man ( I don't think it shows on my id thingo). On the Port Big Footy board, Mark Williams, premiership coach and all, gets bagged far more frequently and more ferociously than CC does around here.
Again from the outside in there seems a lack of hardness all round. The fans -not all- are very forgiving of the coach and players, the coach seems pretty soft on the players and the captain just does whatever he wants.
Just some thoughts.
Well, you've just confirmed you make idiotic arguments.
Not at all.
If you recall a few rounds ago when those Collingwood players were suspended for going out of their hotel for a drink. They have that rule because they know that their players are more of a target when they are out and about after a game when they are not in their home state.
So these types of problems should have been anticipated by the fifty million or so Fremantle coaching staff.
GentlemanJeff
18 Jun 2007, 15:32
Exactly, thank you Jeffle.
In fact Jason McCartney has said that he sensed there was trouble brewing several hours before it kicked off: "Meanwhile, former Kangaroos and Adelaide player Jason McCartney said he led Fremantle star forward Chris Tarrant out of the same nightclub hours earlier because he sensed trouble brewing. "I was there early and I did go up to Taz and tell him to get out of there because there was a big crowd there and a bit of angst going on," McCartney told AAP.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,21924031-23211,00.html
So why did the players and coaching staff stay there? It must have been obvious something may go wrong.
This is just typical behaviour - the clubs season is on the line - this is the last thing we need right now.
Just because Harvey got king hit does not mask the fact that it was an absolute disgrace that they were all out at the pub in the first place
Belnakor
18 Jun 2007, 15:40
So why did the players and coaching staff stay there? It must have been obvious something may go wrong.
Everyone who isn't a complete moron can tell when trouble is brewing in a pub. It is obvious the boys were either drunk or just didn't give a shit.
I think the problem is half our team are from interstate, we have a bunch of hired guns (or in Connolly's case, a classic glass cannon) for coaching staff who are on great money, but have no respect for the club and fremantle's culture. And obviously the players are not that happy. Infact, the more strife that is caused, the better Harvey is looking. They should call him Brutus. He is just waiting for his moment to knife Connolly. And he does have a very punchable head.
Belnakor
18 Jun 2007, 15:41
So these types of problems should have been anticipated by the fifty million or so Fremantle coaching staff.
Cuddles response during the week: "look, you'll have to talk to our pub brawls coach about that one.. i'm looking to next week". Cuddles need to step up and take some responsibility. Sounds like he was asleep at the switch.
GentlemanJeff
18 Jun 2007, 15:42
In fact, the more I read the various news reports on this incident, the more it becomes clear that this pub was an absolute mad house.
Why on earth did they stay when it was obvious (to McCartney who is not even paid by the Dockers to look out for players) that things were getting nasty?
All roads point to a lack of respect for Cuddles' authority.
GentlemanJeff
18 Jun 2007, 15:44
Sounds like he was asleep at the switch.
I bet he was literally asleep when all of this went down - Blisfully unaware that even his Assistant Coach was out on the piss in some roughneck bar making a mockery of Cuddles' authority.
This is a huge crisis.
Cuddles response during the week: "look, you'll have to talk to our pub brawls coach about that one.. i'm looking to next week". Cuddles need to step up and take some responsibility. Sounds like he was asleep at the switch.
hilarious
i stand by my comment yesterday 'spoilt precious frat boys'
very few have any character, they peaked in high school
Belnakor
18 Jun 2007, 15:58
I bet he was literally asleep when all of this went down - Blisfully unaware that even his Assistant Coach was out on the piss in some roughneck bar making a mockery of Cuddles' authority.
This is a huge crisis.
There does need to be some questions asked for sure. Where was Cuddles? Why was he not involved in "team bonding"? (which is the only thing you could justify this outing with). Sounds like Harvs is in with the players, out on the piss, being one of the "lads" with the players. All the while Cuddles is off in lala land unaware of whats going on. Asleep at the switch indeed.
GentlemanJeff
18 Jun 2007, 16:09
What kind of circus is Cuddles running down at Fremantle?
Either the board gets rid of Cuddles, or the board needs to be replaced.
Why did they stay at the bar when trouble had been brewing for "several hours"?
Why were they having a "team bonding session on the piss" on their week off?
Why werent they on the first flight back to Perth for training? They dont deserve an excursion in the top end. They need to win 7 of there next 10 games.
Why did McCartney have the sense to get Tarrant out of there, yet Harvey allowed the players to stay?
Deep Purple
18 Jun 2007, 17:12
[quote=GentlemanJeff;7868039]What kind of circus is Cuddles running down at Fremantle?
Either the board gets rid of Cuddles, or the board needs to be replaced.
Why did they stay at the bar when trouble had been brewing for "several hours"?
I have just returned from Darwin and was able to see the Dockers Top End Tour first hand.
I was staying in the same Hotel as the Bulldogs, their preparation was totally professional apart from seeing them in the hotel going to team meetings etc they were not seen about the town, Differeent to the Dockers who walked about town like movie stars wanting to be spotted. I was impressed by the Bullies professional preparation.
The Dockers played as well as I have seen them play this season, they should have put them to sword in the 2nd qtr buut could not kick straight.
Losing Matty Carr was a loss, but for mine Connolly was out coached by Eade, once the Dogs had shut our forward line down, there was no plan B, and for mine that is the problem with Chris's coaching, NO PLAN B!!!
We've been over run by the "Three Stooges Impersonation Club"...
ImperialPurple
18 Jun 2007, 17:28
We've been over run by the "Three Stooges Impersonation Club"...
Dumb, Dumber and Dumberer.
estibador
18 Jun 2007, 17:30
Look I'm no great CC fan but the argument some of you guys are using is pretty flimsy, if not downright disingenuous.
Let's blame CC for the boys getting in trouble at a nightclub. They wouldn't dare get into trouble if they had a more disciplined coach - a hard nut like Harvey maybe? What's that - Harvey was out with them and was invoved in the trouble? Well that blows that theory out of the water then.
In that case maybe we can get Woosha next year. After all, west coast must be close to sacking him because his players obviously don't respect his authority. They are constantly getting themselves into trouble off the field despite numerous warnings and bad publicity.
If CC is going to be sacked it is because he can't get the team to perform on the field, not because some of our meathead players aren't capable of showing common sense while out on their own time.
peppy la pew
18 Jun 2007, 17:48
Dumb, Dumber and Dumberer.
It's hard enough coming to terms with another loss, and the thought that this season is slipping away.
The stooges on this board are pure bandwagoners,
" asleep at the switch ", my 9yr old can do beetter than that. :D
dockertor
18 Jun 2007, 17:50
Dumb, Dumber and Dumberer.
Or Dumb personality1 Dumb personality2 Dumb personality3 ect
dominguez
18 Jun 2007, 18:19
The title Of This Song Sums Up Our Season And Connolly's Career (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp6Zx_fzpq8)
GentlemanJeff
18 Jun 2007, 18:20
all you bring to the table is complete crap. dumb and dumber hahaha - you're so intelligent.
Why dont one of you morons try and explain to us why the players and Harvey remained at the bar despite trouble brewing for several hours? Why was McCartney able to walk away, but the freo boys had to stay.
You need to face facts - the club is in a shambles - the darwin tour has been yet another circus act.
estibador
18 Jun 2007, 18:25
Why dont one of you morons try and explain to us why the players and Harvey remained at the bar despite trouble brewing for several hours?
Because (some) footballers are a little dumb?
Belnakor
18 Jun 2007, 18:40
Because (some) footballers are a little dumb?
So in your opinion, Harvey is a fool?
estibador
18 Jun 2007, 18:56
So in your opinion, Harvey is a fool?
Not a fool, but he doesn't come across as being a rocket scientist. (Or a rocket surgeon as our good friend Jako would say).
Besides it sounds like he was the one trying to defuse the situation. Not really his fault that he was attacked from behind.
The whole thing sounds like a media beat up anyway. AFL players would be hassled by d1ckheads everytime they go out anywhere so I don't really put all that much stock in this 'trouble brewing' stuff. It's just this time some 'hero' took it a step further.