Grant Birchall - CHB???

[Birchall01]

After Croad we are going to need another CHB. I was wondering if Birchall could be seen in this position. When Croad retires Birchall will be 23-24. He has the height, 192 cm. Also, he has bulked up a fair bit during the preseason. We all know how quick he is, in combination with the fact he runs and breaks the lines. His defensive game still needs work, but it is improving rapidly. His One on one needs work, as does his spoiling. However, I believe the hawks are priming this fella for the CHB position in years to come. He would be an absolute gem there. We already have plentiful half-back pocket/flankers. Birchall would have the run and size to go with most power forwards. He is a good size and while he streams out of defence he makes good decisions.
I believe he would a terrific athletic attacking and aggressive CHB with genuine footy smarts. Thoughts?

[tommyk72]

Intersting idea, but I think that i'm going to have to disagree with you there Birch. I think that our KPP stocks are looking fantastic at the moment. We have a lot of potential CHBs (emphasise POTENTIAL). Roughhead, Renouf, Dowler... all of them could hold down that position in the future.

I think with Birch's ability to break the lines and precision kicking, i'd nearly like to see him spend a bit more time on the ball, especially once he has bulked up a little bit. Not saying that he would be in the same league necessarily, but perhaps a little in the kouta sort of mould (if he can bulk up a bit more!). Think he would be more damaging in that role than at CHB.

[Donnybrook]

Certainly has the physical attributes for the job, and from what those who've seen training are reporting, he works hard on the defensive side of his game.

I would definately see him as being the first choice match-up for players such as Reiwoldt, Pavlich, Lucas etc, a little further down the track.

[Birchall01]

Intersting idea, but I think that i'm going to have to disagree with you there Birch. I think that our KPP stocks are looking fantastic at the moment. We have a lot of potential CHBs (emphasise POTENTIAL). Roughhead, Renouf, Dowler... all of them could hold down that position in the future.

I think with Birch's ability to break the lines and precision kicking, i'd nearly like to see him spend a bit more time on the ball, especially once he has bulked up a little bit. Not saying that he would be in the same league necessarily, but perhaps a little in the kouta sort of mould (if he can bulk up a bit more!). Think he would be more damaging in that role than at CHB.

Renouf wont become a CHB thats for sure. I am positive he wasnt drafted to play that position. H2F seems hell bent on him playing there! I doubt Clarkson wants a list consisting of 3 genuine ruckmen. At the middle of last year he emphasised the point that ruckmen are 1 of if not the most important positions on the list. Renouf is (while extremely athletic), not going to be a genuine CHB. He was drafted as a ruckmen! He may take the same path of development as ryder though. I genuinely see roughead as a forward, and so does clarkson. With dowler however, i agree that he could also become a genuine CHB. He has the attributes.

[Hodge2Franklin]

Renouf wont become a CHB thats for sure. I am positive he wasnt drafted to play that position. H2F seems hell bent on him playing there! I doubt Clarkson wants a list consisting of 3 genuine ruckmen. At the middle of last year he emphasised the point that ruckmen are 1 of if not the most important positions on the list. Renouf is (while extremely athletic), not going to be a genuine CHB. He was drafted as a ruckmen! He may take the same path of development as ryder though. I genuinely see roughead as a forward, and so does clarkson. With dowler however, i agree that he could also become a genuine CHB. He has the attributes.


Birch I'm telling you mate, Renouf is our CHB. He is quick and has that Fletcher like ability to get a spoil in when he is out of the contest. He is a great mark and has a fantastic engine.

Of course this could mean he could possibly play ruck also, but it is clear from the way Box Hill are flogging him, and how they are using him on the ground that CHB is the plan.

I could be wrong but I personally believe this and am very excited about what he has shown.

[Hodge2Franklin]

By the way McEntee looks the goods also, so with Bails we are looking like having some quality rucks coming through.

[bunky]

Birch i think is better suited to the wing. great kick on the fella and will run all day! could have him on the HBF too...

i agree that he's developing his defensive game, but will be great if he plays on the wing and drops back to cover the power fowards, much like what DJ does for us currently.

[Alex_au]

Heared Dermie on radio a few weeks ago saying that Birch is going to be groomed eventually as CHB for Hawthorn.

[Birchall01]

Birch I'm telling you mate, Renouf is our CHB. He is quick and has that Fletcher like ability to get a spoil in when he is out of the contest. He is a great mark and has a fantastic engine.

Of course this could mean he could possibly play ruck also, but it is clear from the way Box Hill are flogging him, and how they are using him on the ground that CHB is the plan.

I could be wrong but I personally believe this and am very excited about what he has shown.

I think you are misinterpreting what box hill are doing. You cant whack a 19 yr old and expecting him to compete in the ruck consistently. Thats why they are sparing him from the physical stuff at this point, hence playing him down back. Essendon did this to ryder last year with no success, however this year hes been playing down back, and improving, while only playing a bit in the ruck. Do you think essendon see ryder as a permanent back. God no, they want him to be a ruckmen. Also, if we played renouf at chb this creates too many match up problems in defence for us. There arent too many 200 cm forwards for him to match up on. Id rather a 200 cm ruckmen who can push forward rather than a 200 cm CHB who could chip in the ruck. That creates match up problems for the other team, as he can use his size and mobility to advantage. Id rather he develops into a top line ruckmen.

[CyberKev]

I think Birchall will play HBF/wing across his career, although as far as suggestions go, the notion of playing him out of CHB certainly isn't worse than the Tiger proposition of playing Oakley-Nicholls there!

At any rate, Beau Dowler will be the next Hawk CHB...

Bookmark it!

Well, nah, don't...

I just thought it was obligatory to add that one on when you make a bold statement on BF. :)

[Blasé]

Renouf wont become a CHB thats for sure. I am positive he wasnt drafted to play that position. H2F seems hell bent on him playing there! I doubt Clarkson wants a list consisting of 3 genuine ruckmen. At the middle of last year he emphasised the point that ruckmen are 1 of if not the most important positions on the list. Renouf is (while extremely athletic), not going to be a genuine CHB. He was drafted as a ruckmen! He may take the same path of development as ryder though. I genuinely see roughead as a forward, and so does clarkson. With dowler however, i agree that he could also become a genuine CHB. He has the attributes.

no to the idea, of birchall CHB, just doesn't play tall, would take a lot of learning from the kid to change the way he plays.

renouf, ruckman, not a CHB. do not be fooled by the fact that we have bailey and mcentee, because there is not certainty. reason for bailey is he's young, off a knee, hopefully he'll make it. second, mcentee is performing well, but would need to promoted off rookie list, which in turn would require a decision by the staff on who to make way (considering 4 draft picks are mandatory). but i would cos he looks good and ruckmen are hard to find! yet would still renouf for ruck stocks, and then if all goes well you could be flexible changing him to chb.

h2f, many people thought that campbell was kp material, but now only realise he's only genuine ruck.

[RustyHawk]

Birch I'm telling you mate, Renouf is our CHB. He is quick and has that Fletcher like ability to get a spoil in when he is out of the contest. He is a great mark and has a fantastic engine.

Of course this could mean he could possibly play ruck also, but it is clear from the way Box Hill are flogging him, and how they are using him on the ground that CHB is the plan.

I could be wrong but I personally believe this and am very excited about what he has shown.

I'm with you "oh Richmond stirrer". Still excited about that run, chase and tackle that Renouf put on Williams during the pre season match earlier this year.

Renouf would be wasted as a ruckman. In 2008 when Bailey returns would make him no4.

CHB makes sense. We are undersized down back, as H2F has said got that Fletcher type ability that we could really use down back.

Dowler will never be a permanent CHB at Hawthorn, never. KPP forward but may go down back for learning purposes in the seniors.
Roughie will continue to be used both ends as needed and warranted but not a specialist CHB.

[Hodge2Franklin]

I think you are misinterpreting what box hill are doing. You cant whack a 19 yr old and expecting him to compete in the ruck consistently. Thats why they are sparing him from the physical stuff at this point, hence playing him down back. Essendon did this to ryder last year with no success, however this year hes been playing down back, and improving, while only playing a bit in the ruck. Do you think essendon see ryder as a permanent back. God no, they want him to be a ruckmen. Also, if we played renouf at chb this creates too many match up problems in defence for us. There arent too many 200 cm forwards for him to match up on. Id rather a 200 cm ruckmen who can push forward rather than a 200 cm CHB who could chip in the ruck. That creates match up problems for the other team, as he can use his size and mobility to advantage. Id rather he develops into a top line ruckmen.

You make some very good points Birch but I guess watching the guy a bit, and I see a Fletcher not a ruckmen.

Not saying you are wrong, but don't let the 200cm fool you. Isn't Fletcher close to this, and look at the Gadget arms.

This is what I seen in Renouf, and watching McEntee is further strengthens my resolve. One plays like a ruckmen, the other like a Fletcher.

[Hodge2Franklin]

I'm with you "oh Richmond stirrer". Still excited about that run, chase and tackle that Renouf put on Williams during the pre season match earlier this year.

Renouf would be wasted as a ruckman. In 2008 when Bailey returns would make him no4.

CHB makes sense. We are undersized down back, as H2F has said got that Fletcher type ability that we could really use down back.

Dowler will never be a permanent CHB at Hawthorn, never. KPP forward but may go down back for learning purposes in the seniors.
Roughie will continue to be used both ends as needed and warranted but not a specialist CHB.

:)

I can't help it Rusty, I just can't. I guess I am like a dog to a bone :p

Can't tell you how happy I am though that you think the same with Renouf. I am just so excited about his capabilities for us down back, and knowing someone else sees it too (especially someone who sees as much of him as you) gets the juices flowing.

[Roughie]

Just think with Birchall's height being a dashing Half Back/ Winger will be great. Hard to match up on, and we would back him in a marking contest. Versatility is the key and his disposal is pin point.

H2F has pretty much sold me on Renouf becoming a defender first.

The problem is if Dowler is not developed in defence there will be more than a squeeze at his position, forcing a trade which would be a shame. We will definatly look for another defender in this years draft so the question may still be unknown about Croad's replacement.

At the moment I believe Croad has atleast 3 more years at CHB, and who knows for the rest of his career.

[HawkFan15]

Interesting point on the birch but I think that stats about height can be deceptive, eg cambell brown at 177 and ellis at 187 go figure. I think Birchall was recruited as a wingman/half back flanker and I dont think he has the body shape/type to be a true centre half back

[quiksilver83]

yeh i dont think birchall is right for CHB, he runs well off half back but i think he still lacks awareness... have seen him get tackled holding the ball quite a few times this season... i know that several of those times he was just trying to hold on to the ball because there were no 'good' options up the field but nevertheless...

[Cheeseman]

Renouf played CHB AND RUCK in the QAFL, but importantly, He played at CHB in a winning grand final, performing well against men whilst a junior for Southport.

It was widely discussed at the time of his drafting that he was more than he seemed, recording a 14.3 beep, running the 3km in 10:27, 7th fastest in the camp, and recorded the biggest running leap and 7th in the standing leap, only 4cm less than the highest.

He was highly regarded as an elite tap ruckman, and has the statistical data to back it up, but at the same time, he performed consistently as a KPP defender.


My thoughts are, Twister will be what we need, wherever that is, simple. :thumbsu:


Re: Birch, It aint broke, dont fix it. ;)

[CyberKev]

Dowler will never be a permanent CHB at Hawthorn, never. KPP forward but may go down back for learning purposes in the seniors.
Roughie will continue to be used both ends as needed and warranted but not a specialist CHB.

If this is true, Rusty, then Dowler will be hard pressed holding his place on the list, assuming - as I expect - the club doesn't want Thorp to be used long term at CHB rather than CHF.

Roughead will bring much more to the forward structure with his physicality and body work than Dowler.

Roughead, Thorp and Franklin would appear to be the future tall forward triumvirate of choice, and allowing for annual list culling pressures, I'm not sure that the club could hang on to both Dowler & Boyle as tall forward back-ups.

Unless, I suppose, the club decides to run with four talls in the forward line (which is unlikely and could only be contemplated were Williams to leave the club) or decides that Franklin's future lies on a wing, which would seem like a bit of a backward step.

Interesting times for Dowler.

[Clarksville]

I agree. Birchall has all the required attributes to play CHB. His decision making is very good and loves to run with the ball. He's well suited to Clarkson's game strategy. I'd be a little cautious about Dowler at this stage - by the time he appears he'll be a least 1.5 seasons (in the firsts) behind Birchall. Dowler won't be ready for a CHB option until at least 2009.

[Brown n Gold]

One guy who was traded last year that would have slotted nicely into the Brown n Gold..... G Polak!!! I realise that we would never have been interested given the youth policy and all... but he has been the Tigers shining light along side Foley.

Dominated in a defence that has been getting smashed all year.... who would have thought!!! Great pair of mits

[quiksilver83]

lol yeh polak appeared to be languishing at freo but has stepped up at the tigers... would like to see renouf and dowler in box hill next week... really want to see where they are at. I agree with cyberkev on roughead, he would be better suited to the fwd line... big body and has shown signs already. gee.. going to be tough for dowler. but let's not write him off yet

[Birchall01]

I see dowler as a future defender anyway. Simply, he was drafted as far too much of a talent to just cull him if we have a truckload of key position forwards. Dowler was drafted as a fast leading forward with a strong mark, and good kicking skills. I see no reason why he cannot be considered for the CHB of the future, similarly to Birchall. People keep downing dowler but, i believe he is on the improve.

This was quoted from herald sun on the Box hill game - link http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,21922391%255E19767,00.html

"It completed a perfect weekend for the Hawks, with draftees Beau Dowler, Mitch Thorp (four goals), Brent Renouf, Josh Kennedy and Travis Tuck starring for Box Hill after the senior side's record-breaking 100-point win against Carlton on Friday night."

Todays game is heading towards having a mobile defence. I believe our backline in the future will consist of Gilham, Birchall and Dowler. Perhaps Dawson if he kicks on. There is more than enough size, mobility and strength there, ample. Id hate to see dowler hit the scrap heap due to an abundance of forwards.

[GNCLongJack]

After Croad we are going to need another CHB. I was wondering if Birchall could be seen in this position. When Croad retires Birchall will be 23-24. He has the height, 192 cm. Also, he has bulked up a fair bit during the preseason. We all know how quick he is, in combination with the fact he runs and breaks the lines. His defensive game still needs work, but it is improving rapidly. His One on one needs work, as does his spoiling. However, I believe the hawks are priming this fella for the CHB position in years to come. He would be an absolute gem there. We already have plentiful half-back pocket/flankers. Birchall would have the run and size to go with most power forwards. He is a good size and while he streams out of defence he makes good decisions.
I believe he would a terrific athletic attacking and aggressive CHB with genuine footy smarts. Thoughts?Yes.

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I think Birchall will play HBF/wing across his career, although as far as suggestions go, the notion of playing him out of CHB certainly isn't worse than the Tiger proposition of playing Oakley-Nicholls there!

At any rate, Beau Dowler will be the next Hawk CHB...

Bookmark it!

Well, nah, don't...

I just thought it was obligatory to add that one on when you make a bold statement on BF. :)

He's playing there for BH and unless Franklin goes into the midfield a la Goodes, we're going to struggle to find a spot for Dowler with Boyler, Roughie and Willo already there.