View Full Version : Observations v Geelong
kelvin_sheedy
7 Jul 2007, 00:50
Here's a few thoughts after tonights game.
Hislop looks very very good.
Rama looks like he can get back to some real good footy with a bit more fitness.
Dyson has played his last game for the EFC. Quite simply nowhere near good enough.
Davey - heartbreaking.
Johns? Why was he selected in front of Bradley? He's got such a long way to go and i'm not sure if he'll make it. Needs a lot more games at VFL level.
MJ - The end is nigh.
Nash - Continues to impress.
I was really impressed with the team as a whole. Lucas had no support but battled on. Lloyd would have made a huge difference.
We lacked numbers and a bit of class at the end but we weren't that far away from the competition leaders.
Longy413
7 Jul 2007, 01:06
We didn't deserve to lose by 50 points.
In fact, I think we covered our outs very well. We didn't actually lose anything from not having Lloyd, Licha and Stants.
When the game was there to be won, we had the momentum but we had nothing more to give.
Had Hird and Davey not played at all and we had two others in the side available for the whole night, even Campo and Heff. I reckon we just about win.
I'd love to play the Cats in the finals.
Hislop played alright in his first game — your praise is a little over-extended though. I've never really had an opinion either way on Dyson, but these days I do like to see him picked just because it seems to rile you so much.
Anyway, three good quarters and a few moments of genuine team magic, then a quarter with no bench. And some season-defining carnage. It's a funny game.
Also: If that was the ladder leader, this is the most even competition since the nineties. Good stuff, though we'll struggle to make the eight from here.
kelvin_sheedy
7 Jul 2007, 01:15
For most of the game we looked like we had their measure or close to it.
Yeah... almost agree with if we had two instead of Hird and Davey we could have won but that's where guys like Dyson, Johns, MJ should have stepped up and given us a bit more.
I'd love to play them in the finals but we first got to get there. With injuries and possible suspensions we need a bit of luck right now.
I still think we are short 2 or 3 players. We just can't get solid contributions from the 19-22 bracket.
Longy413
7 Jul 2007, 01:17
we'll struggle to make the eight from here.
Why?
StKilda and one of Freo and Sydney will be out of the race by the end of the weekend.
The Dogs could very easily lose this week and we play them next week.
Adelaide could very easily get rolled by Hawthorn.
IF those things happen we'll still be 7th at the end of the round, if Richmond upset the Roos (extremely unlikely) then we won't move.
Our best footy should be good enough to win our next three games. If we can win two at least, we're in good shape with Hird and Winderlich to come back in.
We'll get Lloyd and Stanton back next week and hopefully Fletch only gets a week because the Dogs isn't the worst game for him to miss.
We proved for three quarters tonight that we're good enough. Finals is there if we want it...
Why?
On the view that we need 12 wins and we have 8, with 8 games to play it's hard to see where the other 4 come from. You're right that the Dogs is a gettable game, but with these injuries and suspensions? Then Pies at the G, Adelaide, Hawks at the G, Freo at Subi? We're 2 wins from the last 14 at the G for a reason. I would hope we can take out Carlton and Richmond at the G, though the Blues beat us last time there and Richmond came very close. Let's assume we get them though, and one of the others — that leaves us needing a win against West Coast at Subi.
I didn't say impossible: just hard. Very hard, really.
Hislop - was a solid debut
Agree about Ricky D, just not up to it.
Johns - its frustrating, i think he should have been given more time one out in the goalsquare, we didn't move it quick enough into the forward line or deliver well for him. But still a massive query
MJ - just don't know what the future holds for him, too slow now to play on a small leading forward, not good enough for the midfield. Chapman pulled his pants down tonight.
Our middle is still the massive problem. Obviously we were missing Hird, Winder and Stanton, but our 3 in the middle for a lot of the night were pev, johnson and johnson. That is the least threatening midfield combo in the league.
But with all that going against us we did take it to them for 3 quarters. They put in a solid effort.
Longy413
7 Jul 2007, 01:34
I didn't say impossible: just hard. Very hard, really.
I think it's going to be hard for a lot of teams to make it.
I'm confident in beating the four teams currently below us.
Kangaroos, Sydney, Adelaide and the Dogs really don't have it any easier than us.
We need to beat the four teams below us and we're just about in and I do think we're good enough to do that.
We always give Freo and Collingwood a shake.
MJ - just don't know what the future holds for him, too slow now to play on a small leading forward, not good enough for the midfield. Chapman pulled his pants down tonight.
I thought he gave us a good spark in the midfield in the third, he just can't maintain that for long periods of time anymore.
Darealrath
7 Jul 2007, 01:40
We didn't actually lose anything from not having Lloyd, Licha and Stants.
When the game was there to be won, we had the momentum but we had nothing more to give.
Can't agree there mate. We put in a great effort but if we'd had Lloyd, Licha and Stants I'd say we'd have put a bit more scoreboard pressure on. We lacked a target at times and too many guys were turning the ball over in the midfield, something which Winderlich especially rarely does. We also missed Campo in this regard. We also lacked some run of which Stants and Licha are our best at providing.
Other thoughts:
Dyson didn't do much but dead set he gets ignored a lot. 2 noticeable examples: The first kick in Fletch screwed up he should have kicked it 30m straight out to Dyson who was free for ages, and in the last quarter Pev completely ignored him miles in the clear and kicked to a contest where it was punched out of bounds.
MJ should be moved permanently to the forward line. Don't think he's been all that bad this season but his pace is now being exploited too often.
With no injuries/possible reports i'd be supremely confident of beating the dogs but now I doubt I'll tip us. Just a horror night.
daveyboy3
7 Jul 2007, 01:43
Any one else think it was one of Jobes best games? vision by hand was amazing and in the third quarter he kept us in the game by himself.
Darealrath
7 Jul 2007, 01:44
Any one else think it was one of Jobes best games? vision by hand was amazing and in the third quarter he kept us in the game by himself.
He was good but he still lets himself down with some decision making at times.
I was disappointed with our effort at times for I just felt Geelong were harder at the ball, on to many occasions Geelong moved the ball from their back line to the half forward line without us touching the ball, and we seemed to all ways be caught playing from behind and who the heck was on Chapman
He was good but he still lets himself down with some decision making at times.
Yeah taking a bounce instead of kicking it from 40 metres out.
daveyboy3
7 Jul 2007, 01:56
Yeah taking a bounce instead of kicking it from 40 metres out.
Not poor decision making at all. Just either bad luck or a bad bounce by Jobe.
Darealrath
7 Jul 2007, 01:57
Not poor decision making at all. Just either bad luck or a bad bounce by Jobe.
It's not basketball, there was no reason at all to bounce it.
Strike Swiftly
7 Jul 2007, 02:04
Any one else think it was one of Jobes best games? vision by hand was amazing and in the third quarter he kept us in the game by himself.
shame he has no vision when running with the ball. far too many HTB's IMO
turtlemanistic
7 Jul 2007, 02:12
It's not basketball, there was no reason at all to bounce it.
Watson just seems to be one of those players who feel compelled to bounce the ball as soon as they get it, and he just made himself look like a fool
I don't think Johns really had a good opportunity to make an impression on the game - I like the look of him though - he seems to have a sort of similar stature to Tomahawk
Mark Johnson's suffering from pace too much - part of the reason why his cousin David couldn't maintain a regular first team place down at geelong
yeah injuries suck, but the lack of them has been probably the key reason for our position at the top - meh, it happens
Hislop looked pretty good - and he looked composed at times of pressure as well
And Jarryd - we get your point, you're bitter that you got injuries and that didn't help the result - don't be over the top
High Ryder
7 Jul 2007, 02:12
Hislop- Very very impressive debut for mine.
Nash-Going to be very good for us, might lack a touch of leg speed though.
Lovett- How does he escape criticism?. Very annoyed at him tonight.
Slattery- Good job on Bartel, having a good season.
Rama- He appeared very nervous and thats understandable. Did a few nice things in the last quarter.
Dyson- Will get another chance next week and needs to take it. Serviceable game.
Johns- Similar to Dyson, dont know where hes at. Contested well but needs to kick goals.
bomberstomake8
7 Jul 2007, 02:21
Here's a few thoughts after tonights game.
Hislop looks very very good.
Rama looks like he can get back to some real good footy with a bit more fitness.
Dyson has played his last game for the EFC. Quite simply nowhere near good enough.
Davey - heartbreaking.
Johns? Why was he selected in front of Bradley? He's got such a long way to go and i'm not sure if he'll make it. Needs a lot more games at VFL level.
MJ - The end is nigh.
Nash - Continues to impress.
I was really impressed with the team as a whole. Lucas had no support but battled on. Lloyd would have made a huge difference.
We lacked numbers and a bit of class at the end but we weren't that far away from the competition leaders.
hislop agree
rama agree
dyson showed more tonight then ever imo 17 possies and 4 marks isnt too bad, did some good things
johns, i was very confused with where sheedy was putting him today, make up your mind defence or attack, stop mixing players around like him and kepler. sort them out so they know what they are doign
nash is going to be very good for us, needs to keep his form up
and i thought MJ was okay tonight, not brilliant but okay
the good games for me were watson (did very well and probably kept us in the game longer than we should have been) and i thought lovett was very good today minus a few poor kicks.. of course nash and hislops performances were a highlight. welsh was also very good today.
our percentage took a beating tonight, we are going to need a big win next week to get us back on track
Longy413
7 Jul 2007, 02:23
Can't agree there mate. We put in a great effort but if we'd had Lloyd, Licha and Stants I'd say we'd have put a bit more scoreboard pressure on. We lacked a target at times and too many guys were turning the ball over in the midfield, something which Winderlich especially rarely does. We also missed Campo in this regard. We also lacked some run of which Stants and Licha are our best at providing.
Okay, let me rephrase. Because after reading that again it didn't come out quite as I intended.
Of course they would have made us a better side, but what I meant was that not having them didn't take any thing away from our effort.
In the past couple of years we've gone to water when we've had a couple out.
Still, losing by 50 points is never something we should be pleased about. I hope the blokes are hurting tonight, I'm sure they are.
turtlemanistic
7 Jul 2007, 02:31
By the way did anyone else see the stat that Ch7 showed at the start - where when Lloyd's out Bombers had only won 3 or 4 of the last 25 games when he hadn't played.... - massive
shame he has no vision when running with the ball. far too many HTB's IMO
One was when he had taken a mark and acidentally played on and got wrapped up. So that only leaves one HTB due to awareness. He rarely gets run down useually I would say he has close to the best awareness in the team.
By the way did anyone else see the stat that Ch7 showed at the start - where when Lloyd's out Bombers had only won 3 or 4 of the last 25 games when he hadn't played.... - massive
We were a worse side anyway.
Longy413
7 Jul 2007, 02:36
By the way did anyone else see the stat that Ch7 showed at the start - where when Lloyd's out Bombers had only won 3 or 4 of the last 25 games when he hadn't played.... - massive
That stat is over inflated a little because we were just plain bad through that period.
We're definitely a much better side with him in though.
High Ryder
7 Jul 2007, 02:41
One thing i want to note, why the **** do some of our players even coontemplate playing on from within range? Welsh did this twice. And ****ed it up the first time and the 2nd put Hislop under unneeded pressure.
All things considred, I was pretty happy with the game last night.
Unfortunatley it got to the point where we were shot - simply too many to cover for, limited rotations and no legs. The margain was simply a reflection of this, not the game.
But, we are developing and developing strongly IMO. Forget the trolls bagging us, when are on the right track, make no mistake about that. I have always maintained this will be a development year for us, and we are doing it nicely. We have so much young talent which we are just scratching the surface with, who with another pre-season will really propel us. I dont feel we are sitting badly at all, in relation to where the squad is at.
I think Nash is going to be an extremely good player - although in contested situations was pretty much horrible last night. Needs to play the percentages and punch when caught behind. I thought overall our contested balls in the backline were handled horribly all night. Punch has to the be the first insinct.
Hislop - very good, although made a couple clear errors. He will live and learn. He doesnt look far away from the level, physically and ability wise at all.
Watson - just about the best game he has played I thought. Great in close and is a real shame his kicking can let him down (and bouncing apparently)- made up for it not long after though with a great hard ball get by Johns, and amazing hands by Jobe. He has the potential to be elite you know.
Lovett - gotta be better in and around the contested ball. Simply gets brushed aside too easily and doesnt go when he has to. He was the big dissapointment for me.
Dyson - hmmm. How do I say this? He doenst have the presence at the level I dont think. He is what he is, and is very talented, but I think will be one of those guys who just cant make the transition to league level unfortuantely. Not a bad player at all, but I think will be cut. He will get another chance next week tho.
Johns - just never seems used correctly at AFL level. Did a couple nice things and can play the game, but fairly quiet non the less.
Davey - I will just say regardless of his age, I am gobsmacked at how important a "rookie" can be to a side. What he offers, we cant cover. Amazing, but true.
Ryder - looks down on confidence right now for some reason. Is in a patch of some ordinary games, and to be honest a week or two off may be the best thing for him. Everytime he got the ball he didnt look confident, even though his skill set is sublime. Take his goal - looked horribly unsure and nervous, then goes back and slots it right over the goal umpires hat 50 out from the boundary. His hands arent what they were 6 weeks ago.
In the end, it turned into a horrible game to have carried Rama in to. Isnt near AFL ready at the moment, we have to be Frank with him.
And a note to Cole and a lesser extent Jetta - your chance may have been presented on a plate. Well done dipstix! Think about that while you look for a job next year, Richie. Shattering that we are not only in a position where we may have to make up to 6 or 7 forced changes, that we have two blokes on our squad making it that much harder.
Geelong were in cruise control last night and even with a full side they are a level above us. The majority of our goals were from sheer hard work where as geelong set theirs up alot easier. They sort of reminded me of us in 2000 where we'd just do enough to keep a lead and then put our foot down when required. Still with a full team in and on our day im sure we can give them a run fortheir money.
As for some of the players last night well i thought Nash showed he will be a 150 game player IMO. Some of his kicks showed incredble touch and vision. he showed plenty of courage in some contests also.
Hislop was tough, reminds me of a young solly as he likes nothing better than dumping a bloke through the turf.
One thing that needs to be addressed again is our tackling technique, we give far to many free kicks away with some stupid tackles which are usually on the end of some quality pressure. Some goals were squandered becuase guys fall forward instead of dropping there knees.
A few things to think about.
1) It was a good effort for 3 quaters and we where pretty brave for most of the night.
2) Not sure what the game plan was with Johns. One would have thought that you would use CJ in the role that he is most effective in , leading from the goals square. No we put him on a HFF and then drag him off the ground ealry. Spends most of the game on the bench , including long stints in the second half when i would have thought our midfielders needed the rest given we where two down. If we wanted a roaming half forward why the hell didnt we play Bradley who has shown he is pretty handy in that sort of role for Bendigo.
3) Andrew Lovett . Played a very selfish "its all about me" game last night. If he is to be any value to us he has to use his speed and skill and run until he is spent. Last night he gave up early on several times. When we needed a player with pace to sprint clear to provide an option more times than not Lovett was standing around spectating. I dont expect him to do all the inside dirty work but i do expect him to give us all he has during the game and last night he left the ground at the end and the fuel gauge wasnt on empty.
4) When are our midfield ever going to learn that 3 or 4 players leading to the same spot isnt going to work. Dont know how many times last night where we had 3 or 4 players bunched in a group to recieve the footy compared to Geelong who ran in waves down the ground and where able to use the hanball to players who where streaming forward . This was in contrats to our style of 2 or 3 short handballs to players who are not running forward.
5) Ricky Dyson . I watched him closely last night and although i didnt think he played badly my original thoughts on him remain . Indecisive. Too many times he gets caught not knowing what to do. This results in him getting caught 5 meters from the action a lot of times as he doesnt know if he should go to the contest or pick up a player. His role is to play in a similar style to Winderlich but doesnt seem to have the footy smarts to get the spots needed to play this style of game often enough. As an impact player he simply doesnt have enough impact often enough.
6) Pev. Works his ring off every week but his disposal is getting a bit dusty again.
7)Good to see Rama back. At half time i thought we had made a mistake in playing him as he looked to be well off the pace of the game but to his credit he managed to find a bit late in the game when he was playing at half back. He can only get better.
8) MJ . His form is still a worry. Spent most of the night trailing along 3 meters behind Chapman. Still tries really hard and was ripped off with one soft free against him but his lack of pace has become a real problem.
9) The ruck was a posative last night. Although the around the ground output wasnt extremly high the actual contest where good and we where pretty even in hitouts and clearances.
10) Just on clearnace's we need work on our postioning at the center bounces. Often we win the footy but dont have any options to get the footy away cleanly.
11) Hislop , good first up game. made a couple of mistakes but apart from losing his man in defence a couple of times his defencive pressure was good. Tackling was excellent.
I know this post has a fair bit of negative stuff in it but it highlights the areas we need to improve if we are ever going to be a top side. Overall i was pretty happy with most of last nights game. Too bad a few injuries cost us the chance to get a real feel for where we are at.
Strike Swiftly
7 Jul 2007, 13:13
One was when he had taken a mark and acidentally played on and got wrapped up. So that only leaves one HTB due to awareness. He rarely gets run down useually I would say he has close to the best awareness in the team.
i disagree, the mark play on was not an accident. he should have had an awareness of where the opp was before attempting to play on. the other was lack of awareness also. he has doen it all season. he overestimates his own pace and comes unstuck all the time. JJ does the same. McVeigh has the best awareness IMO
FootyGuru
7 Jul 2007, 13:21
pev works his ass off but every time he gets it he desposes it off in a way where it puts blokes under pressure, and he rarely kicks on his opposite foot which makes him also make bad decisions. he did get alot of it and probly alot was hard contested footy which he is great at, but he needs to work on decission making opposite foot and generall skills including handpassing.
Does anyone know how long Davey will be out for? That was such a sickening blow, the way he hit the ground:(
Does anyone know how long Davey will be out for? That was such a sickening blow, the way he hit the ground:(
They are saying 6 weeks or maybe longer.