Ask an Ump ???

[blues12]

This could be a very handy thread for umpire / player relations.
If anybody with a serious question would like it answered post it here.
There are a number of umpires that read Big Footy and they may answer your questions.
We all can then see the answers.
Lets not use this as a place to barrage them and gang up, abuse is not tolerated on the field so lets keep this thread clean from it.
It could be a very handy tool.

[Mongrel]

is there a set penalty for calling an umpire a cheat?

[Animosity]

hmm ... can see people abusing this thread, lets be on our best behaviour kids :D:thumbsu:

Question:

Why do field umpires over-rule a goal umpire a lot of the time? ive seen MANY cases where a field umpire over-rules a goal umpires decision when I think the goal umpy got it right. Isnt HE supposed to be in charge of whether its a goal/touched/point or not, after all he IS the UMPIRE of the GOAL. you dont see a goal ump run off his line to over-rule the field to centre half back and say ' nope .. i was in the best position then .. it was a push in the back umpy, u got it wrong ' ... as an example

[ORANGE UMP]

is there a set penalty for calling an umpire a cheat?

There is no set penalty for calling an umpire a cheat. The directive came at the start of the year that any player that calls an umpire a cheat is to automatically be given a red card and sent to the tribunal. Clubs were told this at the start of the season, so no we can't offer a set penalty. Hopefully everyone knows now and we won't have to worry about it in the future.

[ORANGE UMP]

hmm ... can see people abusing this thread, lets be on our best behaviour kids :D:thumbsu:

Question:

Why do field umpires over-rule a goal umpire a lot of the time? ive seen MANY cases where a field umpire over-rules a goal umpires decision when I think the goal umpy got it right. Isnt HE supposed to be in charge of whether its a goal/touched/point or not, after all he IS the UMPIRE of the GOAL. you dont see a goal ump run off his line to over-rule the field to centre half back and say ' nope .. i was in the best position then .. it was a push in the back umpy, u got it wrong ' ... as an example


Thats an interesting one. Field umpires are predominately in charge and in the case of a goal umpire, we must give them the all clear before they signal a score. I would like to think that we don't overrule each too often, I had a game about a month ago that went down to the wire. I swear a point had been scored but the goal umpire called out of bounds on the full. I went with his decision. As for touched, sometimes it happens a distance away from the goal line so it may be difficult for them to see and theoretically we should be side on too the play giving us a good angle. Also as you are probably well aware, field umpires cop it if you think a goal umpire got it wrong, occasionally if we are straight down the line of the kick, or think we are in better position, we take the iniative to indicate what the score should be, also, on the other hand we also give the all clear without indicating a portion of the time, thus leaving it up to the goal umpire who is more often than not in a much better position than we are. Hope that helps!!!

[To_Hard_To_Cheat]

hmm ... can see people abusing this thread, lets be on our best behaviour kids :D:thumbsu:

Question:

Why do field umpires over-rule a goal umpire a lot of the time? ive seen MANY cases where a field umpire over-rules a goal umpires decision when I think the goal umpy got it right. Isnt HE supposed to be in charge of whether its a goal/touched/point or not, after all he IS the UMPIRE of the GOAL. you dont see a goal ump run off his line to over-rule the field to centre half back and say ' nope .. i was in the best position then .. it was a push in the back umpy, u got it wrong ' ... as an example

The final decision is up to the goal umpire. Field umpires can offer there opinion but if the goal umpire is sure of there decision then it will stand. A field umpire can not overrule a goal umpire they can only offer there opinion.

[OMNIPOTENT_1]

Does a player that is constantly bagging or disputeing your decisions in a game run the risk of not being considered in your game day votes ? (all Umpires can have a go at this one)

[blues12]

I would like to know if umpires have certain instructions in regards to when a mallee breaks out? I have noticed that when this happens some umpires seem to get to close to the action and have a rather small tunnel vision.
If umpires were to stand back about 10-15 meters they would have a very clear view of everything, therefore seeing both sides involved in an incident.

[To_Hard_To_Cheat]

I would like to know if umpires have certain instructions in regards to when a mallee breaks out? I have noticed that when this happens some umpires seem to get to close to the action and have a rather small tunnel vision.
If umpires were to stand back about 10-15 meters they would have a very clear view of everything, therefore seeing both sides involved in an incident.


Fair call we are instructed to keep our distance not only so we can see more but for our own safety as well. In saying that when a Melee breaks out we will never be able to see everything. Normally there will be several "spot fire", as we only have one set of eyes we are instructed to focus on one fight at a time, once that is broken up then we would move to the next. If we stood 10-15m away we probably would never break the fight up.

[ORANGE UMP]

Does a player that is constantly bagging or disputeing your decisions in a game run the risk of not being considered in your game day votes ? (all Umpires can have a go at this one)

The award is best and fairest so I think that should some it up.

[blues12]

just a question in regards to an earlier asked one, do umpires look at players body sizes when paying or not paying free kicks, i have noticed in recent weeks that if a big bloke has is head over the ball and cops a high bump by a smaller bloke he rarely gets the kick?

[To_Hard_To_Cheat]

just a question in regards to an earlier asked one, do umpires look at players body sizes when paying or not paying free kicks, i have noticed in recent weeks that if a big bloke has is head over the ball and cops a high bump by a smaller bloke he rarely gets the kick?

No body size has nothing to do with it. Head high contact, whether it be a big body or a small body is a free kick

[RDFLUmpire]

is there a set penalty for calling an umpire a cheat?
No there is not. RDFL field umpires are instructed to red card, report any player that calls an umpire a cheat. The report will beautomatically taken to the tribunal.

[Animosity]

what distance is a kick measured at before it can not actually be called deliberatley out of bounds ..... is it the distance travelled FORWARD before it is too hard to call? if so, how far .. OR is it more of the intent of the players kick? (e.g if he kicks 35 metres forward&wide to no one but a paddock and lets it roll over )

[RDFLUmpire]

There is no real distance. The umpire will take in the following criteria when determining deliberate out of bounds:

What is the player's intention?
What is the degree of presure the player is under?
What is the degree of force of the kick or handball?
Are there and team mates in the vacinity of where the ball crossses the boundary line?Hope that this helps mate. ;)

[Animosity]

:thumbsu:

[blues12]

If any umps still read this site.
What are the numbers like at the moment? I am told that 3 of last years umpires have been recruited to have a crack with the AFL, good luck to them. Has our own league recruited many to cover the loss. Also do we have the quality to cover them.

[To_Hard_To_Cheat]

If any umps still read this site.
What are the numbers like at the moment? I am told that 3 of last years umpires have been recruited to have a crack with the AFL, good luck to them. Has our own league recruited many to cover the loss. Also do we have the quality to cover them.

Our numbers are terrible!! We will not be able to fill all games this year, some reserve games will be umpired by club umpires. The loss of those three umpires does hurt us especially considering 2 of them umpired last year’s grand final. At the moment we do lack a little bit of experience at the top level, but there are some good young umpires coming through. We have also picked up a couple of umpires from other leagues which bring a lot of experience. So if there is anyone out there interested, we train one night a week (wednesday) at Mcphersons Park in Melton.

[blues12]

Too hard to cheat, you wrote on the other thread that the RDFLU have tried advertising etc, but funds can make it hard.
Can i ask and suggest a couple of ways. When advertising for umpires do adds ever include what the umpiring profession sky limits could be, lets not just try to attract umpires to this league but to AFL in general.
When becoming an RDFL umpire the sky is the limit while earning some extra cash in your earlier training years, a good umpire could end up at the next level, (we have 3 currently with the AFL umpires now) With the right training and the ambition you could become the next Darren Goldspink or The best umpire in the AFL competion with the potential to earn $??????? per game.
Try to make it very attractive, how many children grow up with the ambition to be an AFL footballer and make some good money. Some make it, most dont, but alot do end up becoming very good local senior footballers. Maybe a different angle could attract some new umpires.
The AFL often have grants for local football clubs, why not approach somebody and see if they also include umpiring associations. The AFL is really trying to boost itself, and just about every competition in this country would be short of umpires, maybe it is time for the AFL to promote becoming an umpire.

[butterfingers31]

whats the based componet for paying a free kick for a high tackle?
last weekend an umpire said to me it was over the shoulder, when i thort this was a free kick anyway?

[vobloke]

I can see why there are not many complaints about the umpires at the moment, Wallan has had simmo 5 out of 9 games :mad: if we use a rotation system most teams would get his outstanding skills only two times per season so i am a bit perplexed as to why we have him so often. i would also suggest that we shouldn't get him at all in the latter half of the season.

[Uncle_Touchy]

I can see why there are not many complaints about the umpires at the moment, Wallan has had simmo 5 out of 9 games :mad: if we use a rotation system most teams would get his outstanding skills only two times per season so i am a bit perplexed as to why we have him so often. i would also suggest that we shouldn't get him at all in the latter half of the season.

i can understand complaints about umpiring but i must admit it is a total waste of time.i personally have witnessed corruption in this league but why waste ya breath,u will only make it worse

[To_Hard_To_Cheat]

i can understand complaints about umpiring but i must admit it is a total waste of time.i personally have witnessed corruption in this league but why waste ya breath,u will only make it worse


I've tried to stay out of this argument for as long as I could, but I think you are implying that there are umpires in this league that are cheats. This is the biggest insult to an umpire as you are questioning the whole reason an umpire is out there. This forum is suppose to be for any one who has a decent question about an umpiring decision on the weekend. Please do not turn this into a free slagging forum. I am open to crticism but to just take pot shots at any umpire or the wholoe umpiring group is disappointing. :thumbsd:

[blues12]

THTC, I have one question in regards to the send off rule in the senior grade, the past rule stated that a player must be reported in order to send them off in the seniors, a problem that has occurred was umpires were sending players off to cool down then reporting them.
This year the rule was changed so that unnessesary reports were not made, and that umpires could send players off to cool down when tempers flare, I cant comment on the Wallan game last week, but from all reports, players sent off were for mouthing off or argueing. A Cool down for mouthing off, it doesn't sound right to me.

What are Umpire instructions in regards to Sending off senior players?

[Itsmyshow]

THTC, I have one question in regards to the send off rule in the senior grade, the past rule stated that a player must be reported in order to send them off in the seniors, a problem that has occurred was umpires were sending players off to cool down then reporting them.
This year the rule was changed so that unnessesary reports were not made, and that umpires could send players off to cool down when tempers flare, I cant comment on the Wallan game last week, but from all reports, players sent off were for mouthing off or argueing. A Cool down for mouthing off, it doesn't sound right to me.

What are Umpire instructions in regards to Sending off senior players?

Seems right to me.. If you are going to be abusive, take a seat for 15 minutes...

[vobloke]

I think that the yellow card send of rule has got out of hand. At the start of the year at the advocates meeting it was implied that it was going to be used for player who have become a bit upset and needs to spend some time on the bench to cool down. That was fine and I can understand that it is needed at times. But I can tell you that this rule has lost it meaning now all a player has to do is reply to an umpire and he is sent off
The umpire talks to the player the player replies and he is sent off
We will tell our player to have no communication with the umpires at all this way the problem should be resolved. But I don't think this is how this rule was intended to be used it is shame it has to be this way

The penalty for the send off rule is to severe, if a player has any communication with the umpires and he is sent off, unless he has been reported the teams should be allowed to replace him. If he has received a yellow card and been reported then the 15 mins should apply.

Umpires can send off 4 players in 5 mins, the team has to play with 14 players. At the end of the game the umpires doesn’t report anyone, he doesn’t have to go to the tribunal so it is no skin of his nose at all.

[Baldingeagle]

I think that the yellow card send of rule has got out of hand. At the start of the year at the advocates meeting it was implied that it was going to be used for player who have become a bit upset and needs to spend some time on the bench to cool down. That was fine and I can understand that it is needed at times. But I can tell you that this rule has lost it meaning now all a player has to do is reply to an umpire and he is sent off
The umpire talks to the player the player replies and he is sent off
We will tell our player to have no communication with the umpires at all this way the problem should be resolved. But I don't think this is how this rule was intended to be used it is shame it has to be this way

The penalty for the send off rule is to severe, if a player has any communication with the umpires and he is sent off, unless he has been reported the teams should be allowed to replace him. If he has received a yellow card and been reported then the 15 mins should apply.

Umpires can send off 4 players in 5 mins, the team has to play with 14 players. At the end of the game the umpires doesn’t report anyone, he doesn’t have to go to the tribunal so it is no skin of his nose at all.

Vobloke, how did your player go at the tribunal? What was he charged with?

[To_Hard_To_Cheat]

THTC, I have one question in regards to the send off rule in the senior grade, the past rule stated that a player must be reported in order to send them off in the seniors, a problem that has occurred was umpires were sending players off to cool down then reporting them.
This year the rule was changed so that unnessesary reports were not made, and that umpires could send players off to cool down when tempers flare, I cant comment on the Wallan game last week, but from all reports, players sent off were for mouthing off or argueing. A Cool down for mouthing off, it doesn't sound right to me.

What are Umpire instructions in regards to Sending off senior players?

What you have stated is correct. This year they (the RDFL) have changed the rule so that we can now send off for a cool off in the seniors, the same as reserves and under 18's. It has given us the choice of whether it is serious enough to report or whether to just send off for a cool down. Mouthing off once would not probably warrant a send off, but if I had warned a player and they did not get the message to stop disputing decisions then yes, that would warrant a send off and possibly a report. If a player abused an umpire then the rule has not changed from last year, the player should be sent from the ground for a cool off and be reported for abusive language towards an umpire/disputing a decision/audible language. Which ever one the umpire believes best suits the offence. Of course all of us umpires are different and some umpires will accept/put up with more shit than others. In an ideal world we would be robots and we would all umpire exactly the same each week, but we are human and clubs/players just need to adjust each time they get a different umpire.

[To_Hard_To_Cheat]

I think that the yellow card send of rule has got out of hand. At the start of the year at the advocates meeting it was implied that it was going to be used for player who have become a bit upset and needs to spend some time on the bench to cool down. That was fine and I can understand that it is needed at times. But I can tell you that this rule has lost it meaning now all a player has to do is reply to an umpire and he is sent off
The umpire talks to the player the player replies and he is sent off
We will tell our player to have no communication with the umpires at all this way the problem should be resolved. But I don't think this is how this rule was intended to be used it is shame it has to be this way

The penalty for the send off rule is to severe, if a player has any communication with the umpires and he is sent off, unless he has been reported the teams should be allowed to replace him. If he has received a yellow card and been reported then the 15 mins should apply.

Umpires can send off 4 players in 5 mins, the team has to play with 14 players. At the end of the game the umpires doesn’t report anyone, he doesn’t have to go to the tribunal so it is no skin of his nose at all.

What you say makes sense. I think the whole idea is to get that player from the ground so he can cool down. Should the team be penalised? It is a team game and I suppose if a player knows his team is going to be penalised if he does the wrong thing then he is less likely to do the wrong thing. I think the VAFA has the rule that you are suggesting and it seems to work fine. Unfourtanetly the umpires just enforce the rules that they are given, we don't make them we just enforce them.

[evil dwarf]

just wondering is there any laws re umpires baiting and slagging off players duing a match.recently saw one clapping and smiling at a player he had sent from the ground trying to lure him into doing something stupid.

[Baldingeagle]

just wondering is there any laws re umpires baiting and slagging off players duing a match.recently saw one clapping and smiling at a player he had sent from the ground trying to lure him into doing something stupid.

There is no rule as such, but it would be disappointing if it happened. I know that the umpires hierachy would take action against the umpire if they found that what you are saying occurred.