View Full Version : James Kelly - Trade Bait?
cats2rise
15 Jul 2007, 00:18
About a month or so ago he had a great 2 or 3 weeks but has been rather quiet again since. With the likes of Selwood/Prismall and other young midfielders trying to cement their place, is there a need for Kelly on our list next season?
I think he has more skill than the Bartels, Coreys, Enrights, Lings etc of our midfield footwise, but after his knee injury he just has not been the same. We all know he had a terrible season last season, and I was really hoping to see more from him this year but it has not happened.
Alot can change in 3 months of footy, but what do you all think of him being trade bait? What type of pick would we be after?
I think we could get a reasonable 2nd round pick for him. He hasn't been racking up a lot of stats, but I thought he still had some valuable possesions today.
He hasn't been racking up a lot of stats, but I thought he still had some valuable possesions today.
I think that might be pushing his contribution today.
For the most part, it was a return to the Kelly of old. Dinky kicks that either fell well short or straight over the head of the target, a failure to get involved in the play one way or another, and some moments of woeful decision-making. Disappointing given the inroads he was making just a few weeks before.
Needs to move/get into the thick of the action one way or another - preferably soon - where he does his best work in close, extracting the ball.
Ricketts
15 Jul 2007, 00:57
I think he's clearly in our best 22, and so obviously has a place in the side. I think his work rate, pressure and tackling has improved heaps. He starts on the bench these days and then joins the midfield rotation. Just remember, someone has to start on the bench, and i think he's a quality player to have starting on the bench.
passthebottle
15 Jul 2007, 01:52
No way!!
The thing with him this year is he may not get a lot of possessions but he seems to go in a lot harder than before.
What is it with us at the moment for fricks sake we have just won 10 games straight and every bloody week someone wants to trade someone.
How about Mooney has been a shocking kick for goal the last two weeks lets trade the bloody dud.
Today was a good all round effort by 22 players.
10 down 10 to go.
Big Nasty
15 Jul 2007, 02:29
We could throw Prismal comfortably in his position and get a second round pick for Kelly. He just looks so average compared to Ablett, Chapman, Bartel, Corey and Ling in the midfield.
Kelly is a classy midfielder... but so is Prismall, and he's still young and has one of the best disposals in the game.
I am sorry Kelly, but I just can't justify losing Prismal.
Lets not talk trade bait lets support a grand effort, but
good old cat fans 10 in a row and still finding negatives
get a grip and give credit when due. Get onboard enjoy the
ride biggest problem with our so supporters is to still stick
knives in to a great team ticking all the boxes. Dont care
about the rest but i am dam proud of the boys.....
All of em...
Go Corey Enright!!!!!
Big Nasty
15 Jul 2007, 03:36
Lets not talk trade bait lets support a grand effort, but
good old cat fans 10 in a row and still finding negatives
get a grip and give credit when due. Get onboard enjoy the
ride biggest problem with our so supporters is to still stick
knives in to a great team ticking all the boxes. Dont care
about the rest but i am dam proud of the boys.....
All of em...
Go Corey Enright!!!!!
Mate that's the difference with a Richmond culture, and a Geelong culture... We wont stand for mediocre players, they trade for 'em. :p
catswhiskers
15 Jul 2007, 08:37
Even while climbing to the top of the pile you have to be thinking about how you will stay there.
One good player should be traded at the end of the year for a good pick. The traded player can then get a better contract (time and money wise) and we can use that pick to get a necessary young player and reduce salary cap pressure. Kelly for a key defender who is 18 sounds worthwhile to me. We have players to step up while the defender learns his trade.
Wait too long and the players lose value.
I would love to keep our list as is, got to wonder if it is possible though. We are going to have salary cap problems in the future (I think) and Prismall needs more time in the 1's. Kelly's is one salary we could offload with minimal detrimental impact, Hunt is another. Both would be in the top 20 highest paid players at the cats which is a bit more than they are worth if we start to get salary cap pressure.
I would much rather Geelong shop Kelly around for an upgrade of one of there 1st 3 picks than an additional draft pick. Something like Kelly + pick 34 for pick 17. That would get us a much higher quality kid and means we need to delist 1 less player.
fishman
15 Jul 2007, 11:08
Seriously though, trade who from the list if you dont have too? Yeah we have to cut 4 (probably Byrnes, Playfair, Spencer, Owen.) Playfair may suit a couple fo other clubs and Byrnes might command something but trade a champion team member for a pick? Why bother?
While I am at it, lets nag the AFL for the 'brother rule' and snag another Selwood.
Seriously though, trade who from the list if you dont have too? Yeah we have to cut 4 (probably Byrnes, Playfair, Spencer, Owen.) Playfair may suit a couple fo other clubs and Byrnes might command something but trade a champion team member for a pick? Why bother?
I think give the kid at least another year... has been ok in the 2s from what I have heard.
The rabbi
15 Jul 2007, 12:54
Seriously though, trade who from the list if you dont have too? Yeah we have to cut 4 (probably Byrnes, Playfair, Spencer, Owen.) Playfair may suit a couple fo other clubs and Byrnes might command something but trade a champion team member for a pick? Why bother?
I cannot understand why you would want to cut a kid who has had little or no time to develop. I would rather get rid of the old dead wood. They are the players who have little or no chance of breaking into the side and have been around for a reasonable amount of time. I would leave Owen alone and have a serious look at Charlie and the others mentioned above.
Speaking of Kelly. I think that we have plenty of players of his ilk. Selwood, Prismal et al. But who do you hang on to?
As an aside, who could possibly promoted from the rookie list or VFL next year, if any?
Tommy the Cat
15 Jul 2007, 12:59
what would be the chances of picking up someone better than SJ ?
I'd say pretty slim, so it may be best to hang onto him at this stage as we dont really have any weaknesses
sarah.13
15 Jul 2007, 13:29
Even while climbing to the top of the pile you have to be thinking about how you will stay there.
One good player should be traded at the end of the year for a good pick. The traded player can then get a better contract (time and money wise) and we can use that pick to get a necessary young player and reduce salary cap pressure. Kelly for a key defender who is 18 sounds worthwhile to me. We have players to step up while the defender learns his trade.
Wait too long and the players lose value.
Don't recall Brisbane trading any good players during the 4 year reign. In fact some of their champion players took pay cuts in order to keep the side together.
We should delist the players that we know aren't up to it and leave the rest to Wells and the recruitment department, afterall they've done a good job so far ,don't you think?
tiredcat
15 Jul 2007, 13:44
We need to keep this group together including fringe players. I think we have a further 2 year window of opportunity after this year before we hit speed humps.
In 2 years Milburn will be 32 if he wants to play 2 more
Harley King and Scarlett over 30
Mooney and Ottens near 30
Wojcinski and Ling near 29
These players will leave big holes and maybe a rebuilding period
cats2rise
15 Jul 2007, 15:01
No way!!
What is it with us at the moment for fricks sake we have just won 10 games straight and every bloody week someone wants to trade someone.
How about Mooney has been a shocking kick for goal the last two weeks lets trade the bloody dud.
You always have to look at the big picture and the future.. Does he have a big future at the club? When he first started out I thought he would be our classy, silky midfieler that would play upwards of 200 games for our club but I doubt that now.
Lets not talk trade bait lets support a grand effort, but
good old cat fans 10 in a row and still finding negatives
get a grip and give credit when due.
When and where was I negative? It was a simple question regarding his future at the club.
Get onboard enjoy the ride biggest problem with our so supporters is to still stick
knives in to a great team ticking all the boxes.
Show me how I am sticking the boot in? Obviously simple questions and thoughts are not your forte...
I think that Kelly may be finding it hard to get into the 22 in 18 months if he does not improve. I would hate to see someone who started off in a blaze of glory end up in the VFL, and I am sure many teams would love to take him and would offer us something good for him.
The rabbi
15 Jul 2007, 15:49
what would be the chances of picking up someone better than SJ ?
I'd say pretty slim, so it may be best to hang onto him at this stage as we dont really have any weaknesses
I would say that we have a weakness in the forward line. Full forward or CHF when Mooney is not there. He cannot play both positions.
G_Money
16 Jul 2007, 10:21
You always have to look at the big picture and the future.. Does he have a big future at the club? When he first started out I thought he would be our classy, silky midfieler that would play upwards of 200 games for our club but I doubt that now.
...
I think that Kelly may be finding it hard to get into the 22 in 18 months if he does not improve. I would hate to see someone who started off in a blaze of glory end up in the VFL, and I am sure many teams would love to take him and would offer us something good for him.
Kelly will stay for the following reasons:
1) You assume that Kelly will not improve - he's from the same draft as Gazza and Jimmy, and missed a lot of footy with a broken leg. Gazza and Jimmy have both improved significantly this year, there is no reason that Kelly can not keep improving.
2) You are making the standard BigFooty assumption that Prismall is better than Kelly, and will be better than Kelly. Pris was great early inthe year, and I think he will be a great player for us, but too many people on this board think that he could slot into the team tomorrow and never be dislodged. He is a great kick, but Kelly has him covered for inside work.
3) We have had a dream run with injuries this year, and in the future that will not be the case. One day we will be selecting a team from 26 fit players (like the Eagles onthe weekend,the Saints earlier in the season and like us at times last year). When injury strikes, Prismall, Kelly, Djerkurra and other kids will be playing together in the same team within twelve months. And when Jimmy/Joel Corey/Joel Selwood/Ling/Gazza is out for six weeks at some stage next year, you will be glad that Kelly is still there to add grunt to the midfield.
4) The upcoming draft is weak. Kelly has already played 85 games, and will crack 100 next year. It is a big gamble to assume that we will get a player that will play 100 games out of the second round of next year's draft.
5) Kelly has been good this year. As you rightly say, he has been quiet for the last few weeks, but so have others. For example:
Varcoe
Wojcinski
Blake
Nathan Ablett
Stokes
Bartel
Have all been quieter over the last few weeks than they were earlier in the season. Not saying that they have not contributed, but they were all better before the mid-season break. There are reasons for their 'slumps', such as injuries, crappy weather and wet grounds not suiting them, and probably just simple fatigue. No reason to trade them, they are all important parts of a winning team, as is James Kelly.
Adding kids to the list is vital these days. Selwood, Varcoe and Hawins have all added a buzz to the team this year that far exceeds their output on the stats sheet. But you have to time it right. There is no point trading away a good senior player for an untried kid in a weak draft. If we can get pick upgrades for some of the players who are likely to be delisted this year (Byrnes, Gardiner, Playfair, Spencer) then go for it, but don't get obsessed with draft picks when we have a real opportunity with the group we have now.
cats2rise
16 Jul 2007, 10:50
But you have to time it right. There is no point trading away a good senior player for an untried kid in a weak draft.
That was my question. Is he a good senior player though?
I was expecting a big improvement from last year as he had another pre-season to get over his injury, but I do not think he has. Like I said, I think he could be one of our best midfielders, but at the moment I can not see him going anywhere. I have no doubt in my mind that he has the goods to be more than jyst a 'fringe player' (which is what I think he is now) and would love to see him back to his best, but I have doubts whether it will happen.
That was my question. Is he a good senior player though?
I was expecting a big improvement from last year as he had another pre-season to get over his injury, but I do not think he has. Like I said, I think he could be one of our best midfielders, but at the moment I can not see him going anywhere. I have no doubt in my mind that he has the goods to be more than jyst a 'fringe player' (which is what I think he is now) and would love to see him back to his best, but I have doubts whether it will happen.
I think that question is irrelevant. I am confident that our recruitment team recognises that this draft is weaker and is able to adjust the asking price for Kelly accordingly.
Eg: They may have asked for pick 20 had this years draft been as strong as last year but now they are asking for pick 13.
kinggaz29
16 Jul 2007, 11:16
If the right deal came up eg first round pick or a player from another club that we were keen on than i would do it.
I think this board over rate brent prismall he is a good player but everyone seems to think he is our next big thing.
I would also too let him go however i stress only if it is a suitable deal. First round pick only. And from the whispers i heard it may be his choice to leave anyway.
Ling Sting
16 Jul 2007, 11:19
If he isn't offered as trade bait I'd give him an SJ type ultimatum to ramp it up in 2008 or face the axe.
He is hardly integral to our structure and even when things are going well a decent football department will have one eye on the clubs future.