Carlton need tough, hard midfielders

[RiteBak@Ya]

I have raised this fot the past 2 seasons. Carlton need to recruit young hard bodied midfielders who have clean hands, put there head over the ball and win contests.

Murphy is geat but not big enough to enforce himself. Gibbs will be a star but you would hardly been nervous of his presence. Russel, Walker and Simpson are light on and mostly outside players. Carazzo finds the ball but does not have physical precense and Bentwick dosent have the speed and skill to hurt.

We need to change our draft stratgey urgently and should look at adding some muscle to our midfield.

2006 - I can understand taking Gibbs in front of Selwood (only just), but to then overlook Hislop for Grigg???

2005 - Nathan Jones or Shannon Hurn would have been handy with pick 4 Josh Kennedy.

2004 - Just missed Jordan Lewis (doubt our recruiters had this foresight) went for light framed Russel, Matthew Bate would have been handy.

2003 - Imagine Brock Mclean in Navy Blue.

So what does 2007 bring. More outside mids, more light framed KP's. I think it's proven what works. Michael Voss summed it up when he was rating this years prospects. Brett Ebert - good size for AFL next year, puts his head over the ball, leader, clean hands - good skills, sounds like a young Michael Voss. There is also a young Selwood and Vezpremi perhaps available at our second round.

[truebluenavyblues]

I have raised this fot the past 2 seasons. Carlton need to recruit young hard bodied midfielders who have clean hands, put there head over the ball and win contests.

Murphy is geat but not big enough to enforce himself. Gibbs will be a star but you would hardly been nervous of his presence. Russel, Walker and Simpson are light on and mostly outside players. Carazzo finds the ball but does not have physical precense and Bentwick dosent have the speed and skill to hurt.

We need to change our draft stratgey urgently and should look at adding some muscle to our midfield.

2006 - I can understand taking Gibbs in front of Selwood (only just), but to then overlook Hislop for Grigg???

2005 - Nathan Jones or Shannon Hurn would have been handy with pick 4 Josh Kennedy.

2004 - Just missed Jordan Lewis (doubt our recruiters had this foresight) went for light framed Russel, Matthew Bate would have been handy.

2003 - Imagine Brock Mclean in Navy Blue.

So what does 2007 bring. More outside mids, more light framed KP's. I think it's proven what works. Michael Voss summed it up when he was rating this years prospects. Brett Ebert - good size for AFL next year, puts his head over the ball, leader, clean hands - good skills, sounds like a young Michael Voss. There is also a young Selwood and Vezpremi perhaps available at our second round.Unfortunately you are right. However i think we also need a rock solid backman as our #1 defender as we lack that and it ends up killing us in games. We also need a new ruckman that can provide that skill in the ruck to tap down to our midfielders and gives us the ability to clear to our very dangerous forward line.

Bret Thornton is really our #1 defender but sometimes he has off days and his opponent kills us. Problem is besides Setanta we really don't have a solid reserve. We had David Teague a few years ago but his kicking skill was so poor that he is now playing for the ants and look certain to be delisted at the end of the year.

I think Blackwell deserves a shot at the seniors and i can't understand why he hasn't been given a goor long run when he is playing so well in the VFL and has shown that he is a class above the competition. Until we get a new coach with a different strategy in the draft and as well in the development of the kids i think that we will struggle.

[RiteBak@Ya]

Unfortunately you are right. However i think we also need a rock solid backman as our #1 defender as we lack that and it ends up killing us in games. We also need a new ruckman that can provide that skill in the ruck to tap down to our midfielders and gives us the ability to clear to our very dangerous forward line.

Bret Thornton is really our #1 defender but sometimes he has off days and his opponent kills us. Problem is besides Setanta we really don't have a solid reserve. We had David Teague a few years ago but his kicking skill was so poor that he is now playing for the ants and look certain to be delisted at the end of the year.

I think Blackwell deserves a shot at the seniors and i can't understand why he hasn't been given a goor long run when he is playing so well in the VFL and has shown that he is a class above the competition. Until we get a new coach with a different strategy in the draft and as well in the development of the kids i think that we will struggle.

I dont think Sentanta or Kennedy or ruckmen. If you moved Sentanta to FB that would help solve our problem down back. Kennedy is a slowly developing CHF/ FF. Going forward we have Cloke/ Ackland to somehow hold the position with hopes of Aisake and Hampson to come through. Here's hoping for Kreuzer or Belchambers in the draft

I think our tall backs with Thornton, Sentanta, Hartlett and Bower will be OK, we need to add a stronger bodied tall and a few solid medium defenders.

I wont deviate from my point that you have to win constant/ contested/ pressure football and we dont have those type of players

[AlecDuncan]

I wont deviate from my point that you have to win constant/ contested/ pressure football and we dont have those type of players
I agree - in particular we need a hard tough inside on-baller to consistently get first grab off the ruckman's tap. Whether Bentick develops into that eventually (he's about 3 years younger than Sam Mitchell) is questionable. However most of these guys don't come as highly prized draft picks - they work their way through the ranks as Mitchell, or indeed Greg Williams and Brett Ratten did. Selwood was the exception, and that was probably because of his brothers.

Every club passed on Mitchell as an option - so guys like this are hard to spot. This is one reason why I'm glad we're ravamping our recruiting and development system - it's the place most likely to produce the results you want.

In the short term our only hope is to snare one from another club in the PSD.

[as0l0]

"Carlton need tough, hard midfielders"

like the ones that were playing in the first half of the season?

[bourbons]

Our mids are (will be) fine.

We need tough, hard bodied key position defenders and ruck men.

[EddieBettsIsAChamp]

We actually have a good midfield, when its at full strength and unfortunately we rely on Stevens for that.

[as0l0]

Our mids are (will be) fine.

We need tough, hard bodied key position defenders and ruck men.

waite/sentanta @ fb/chb
fev/kennedy @ ff/chf
Asaike @ ruck

only worried about ruck and coach, the rest is fine.

[Bronze]

Good post.
McLean would be a beauty at Carlton BUT I think everyone was saying Walker was the player with the most upside. Remember he was touted as a young Kouta?? :rolleyes:

Lets hope we grab Ebert at the draft. He is described as tough and a natural leader too.

[KnockOut]

Collin Sylvia?

Quickly finding the tank to play in the middle and is also handy around goals. Should seriously look at him come trade week.

[walkers a legend]

i think our mids are doing well considering they have to read the ball off our opponents ruckmans hands

[gadj1976]

2008 pre season should be spent in the gym. We're so lightly framed, I mean Simpson, Walker, Skinny Lappin, Gibbs, Houlihan.... look at their opposition, blokes who can lay tackles and stick them. Our guys get brushed aside way too easily.

Obviously recruting someone who can walk in to the centre square with a bit of bulk about them would be great but that isn't easy to attract to a club where we're at.

[HBF]

Patrick Veszpremi.
Missed out on VM selection only because of a broken thumb prior to the Champs. Is tough and hard, and has decent leg speed. Somwhere between Gibbs and Simpson IMO. Would probably be available by the time our second round selection comes around.

[philhawk]

I think you're a little harsh on Murphy.

He's definitely an in-and-under player who will be as good as a Mitchell or West at the clearances within 3-5 years (IMO).

[HBF]

I think you're a little harsh on Murphy.

He's definitely an in-and-under player who will be as good as a Mitchell or West at the clearances within 3-5 years (IMO).

Once he has some quality support in the midfield, including a ruckman, he will be a very very good player.

[TheGeneral]

Good post.
McLean would be a beauty at Carlton BUT I think everyone was saying Walker was the player with the most upside. Remember he was touted as a young Kouta?? :rolleyes:

Lets hope we grab Ebert at the draft. He is described as tough and a natural leader too.
Not happy with Walker? :rolleyes:

Is Ebert the most talented player though?

We don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot by overlooking a gun talent just to draft a footballer is who a leader and hard at the ball.

Murphy and Gibbs will help lead this club out of the wilderness.
2006 - I can understand taking Gibbs in front of Selwood (only just), but to then overlook Hislop for Grigg???
I don't think you understand anything if you only just understand why Carlton picked Gibbs ahead of Selwood.

What has Hislop done to be considered a hard player?

Hislop only broke even when he played on Russell in the VFL for Tassie last year.
2005 - Nathan Jones or Shannon Hurn would have been handy with pick 4 Josh Kennedy.
Why weren't Hurn and Jones picked in the top ten if they're so talented?

Anyone who thinks Kennedy isn't as hard as Jones and Hurn and not a potential leader really needs to re-work their definitions of leader and hard.

[bmaurizio]

Scott Selwood is the go.
Together with Matty Kreuzer they'll justify another poor year.
Ciao

[Dramoth]

I think you're a little harsh on Murphy.

He's definitely an in-and-under player who will be as good as a Mitchell or West at the clearances within 3-5 years (IMO).

I agree and like HBF said, a quality ruckman in the squad and he will get good service out of the centre bounces and then he will start shining.

[philhawk]

I agree and like HBF said, a quality ruckman in the squad and he will get good service out of the centre bounces and then he will start shining.

Exactly. It's almost clutching at straws, but with Carlton's current virtual lack of a ruckman, Murphy will have learnt how to 'shark' taps and can only improve once his own supply is created by a quality ruckman hitting it down to him.

[RiteBak@Ya]

Not happy with Walker? :rolleyes:

Is Ebert the most talented player though?

We don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot by overlooking a gun talent just to draft a footballer is who a leader and hard at the ball.

Murphy and Gibbs will help lead this club out of the wilderness.

I don't think you understand anything if you only just understand why Carlton picked Gibbs ahead of Selwood.

What has Hislop done to be considered a hard player?

Hislop only broke even when he played on Russell in the VFL for Tassie last year.

Why weren't Hurn and Jones picked in the top ten if they're so talented?

Anyone who thinks Kennedy isn't as hard as Jones and Hurn and not a potential leader really needs to re-work their definitions of leader and hard.

Hislop broke even when playing on 3rd year Russell, thats your answer half wit. Hislop played a good first up game for the bombers. Has body shape and some natural aggression. We have 2 many soft cocks at the moment, never win a flag with to may of them.

How many years we going to make excuses for Kennedy. Should be showing more. Seems to get the brain freeze. Jones and Hurn are miles ahead of Kennedy. From my recollection they were picks 10 and 11, not sure of the relevance of that comment.

The Selwood - Gibbs comparison has been talked about to much to bother commenting.

My definition of footballers is certainly different from yours. I wouldnt be suprised if you came from an umpiring background.

[james Dean]

How I wish we could have someone who played like Josh Carr did today for Freo

[vinny]

Patrick Veszpremi.
Missed out on VM selection only because of a broken thumb prior to the Champs. Is tough and hard, and has decent leg speed. Somwhere between Gibbs and Simpson IMO. Would probably be available by the time our second round selection comes around.

I wathced veszpremi play today at preston is gonna be a very
good player. Very good in the clearances good skills and good at reading the play only needs to work on he's endurance to run the game out.

would like to get this kid!

[AndyWalkersGirl]

I wathced veszpremi play today at preston is gonna be a very
good player. Very good in the clearances good skills and good at reading the play only needs to work on he's endurance to run the game out.

would like to get this kid!

Veszpremi did train with carlton during the pre-season, but i remember training reports were questioning his speed and endurance.

So i guess we can assume that Carlton are considering him amongst many others Im sure.

[vinny]

Veszpremi did train with carlton during the pre-season, but i remember training reports were questioning his speed and endurance.

So i guess we can assume that Carlton are considering him amongst many others Im sure.

Sandringham players were at him all day giving him cheap shots,
when your getting attention like he did at tac level I think it says
something and he likes to dish it back which I liked cause we need
a few more hard nuts through the middle!

[HBF]

Veszpremi did train with carlton during the pre-season, but i remember training reports were questioning his speed and endurance.

So i guess we can assume that Carlton are considering him amongst many others Im sure.

He and Gaertner both trained at Carlton over the Summer.

[HBF]

I wathced veszpremi play today at preston is gonna be a very
good player. Very good in the clearances good skills and good at reading the play only needs to work on he's endurance to run the game out.

would like to get this kid!

Kicked 3 goals today, didn't he?

[damage_inc07]

Hislop broke even when playing on 3rd year Russell, thats your answer half wit. Hislop played a good first up game for the bombers. Has body shape and some natural aggression. We have 2 many soft cocks at the moment, never win a flag with to may of them.

How many years we going to make excuses for Kennedy. Should be showing more. Seems to get the brain freeze. Jones and Hurn are miles ahead of Kennedy. From my recollection they were picks 10 and 11, not sure of the relevance of that comment.

The Selwood - Gibbs comparison has been talked about to much to bother commenting.

My definition of footballers is certainly different from yours. I wouldnt be suprised if you came from an umpiring background.


I think your definition of footy is different to his, and everyone else for that matter. You make a thread like this, bring up a load of garbage points, and then fail to understand a simple argument against your points when it was all but spelt out for you.

Ill spell it out more clearly for you, and anyone else who agrees with you. The relevance of Hurn and Jones being taken outside the top 10 is that AT THE TIME they wern't regarded as the best options to be taken inside the top 10 for whatever reason. Half the other teams in the league thought the same, not so difficult to understand is it?

Its so easy to sound like a hero and critise Carlton's choices now, once you have seen who looks like the best from each year. Unless you can show me a link to a thread you posted saying exactly the same as you are now, WITHOUT the benifit of hindsight, then your just a bloody idiot for posting such rubbish. So much so that you are already comparing Gibbs and Selwood in their first year....so can you provide a link to ANY post, after Judd's FIRST year that said he will go on the be one of West Coast's best player in history, if not the best?

[Gilly1972]

I have raised this fot the past 2 seasons. Carlton need to recruit young hard bodied midfielders who have clean hands, put there head over the ball and win contests.

Murphy is geat but not big enough to enforce himself. Gibbs will be a star but you would hardly been nervous of his presence. Russel, Walker and Simpson are light on and mostly outside players. Carazzo finds the ball but does not have physical precense and Bentwick dosent have the speed and skill to hurt.

We need to change our draft stratgey urgently and should look at adding some muscle to our midfield.

2006 - I can understand taking Gibbs in front of Selwood (only just), but to then overlook Hislop for Grigg???

2005 - Nathan Jones or Shannon Hurn would have been handy with pick 4 Josh Kennedy.

2004 - Just missed Jordan Lewis (doubt our recruiters had this foresight) went for light framed Russel, Matthew Bate would have been handy.

2003 - Imagine Brock Mclean in Navy Blue.

So what does 2007 bring. More outside mids, more light framed KP's. I think it's proven what works. Michael Voss summed it up when he was rating this years prospects. Brett Ebert - good size for AFL next year, puts his head over the ball, leader, clean hands - good skills, sounds like a young Michael Voss. There is also a young Selwood and Vezpremi perhaps available at our second round.

This year I'd like to see any hindsight draft "experts" back up these type of posts by also stating their desired '07 selections where they think we will be able to and should pick these kids up, and why they rate them in that spot on ability and AFL potential. We lack a lot of things including leg speed and I am happy to stake a reasonable sum that Ebert and Selwood will not be in the top 10% in leg speed. Hughes and Rogers have put together a pretty decent list at Freo, I'm sure they are fully aware of our needs.

[Gilly1972]

Veszpremi did train with carlton during the pre-season, but i remember training reports were questioning his speed and endurance.

So i guess we can assume that Carlton are considering him amongst many others Im sure.

No question marks over Vesz's speed...one of the true highlights of watching TAC this year is watching vesz get the ball in traffic and then put on the jets and run away like a rampaging bull. You are right about endurance though, at the moment there would be question marks over his ability to play four quarters on the ball at the speed and intensity of AFL. Would probably start out his AFL career in a BP with the occasional stint in the midfield. One reason he may slide to our second round pick :o

[Korn]

we need speedy midfielders, let's draft 1 or 2 aboriginal players

[Bluebear]

we need speedy midfielders, let's draft 1 or 2 aboriginal players
Like Betts, Anderson and Benjamin?

[Gilly1972]

we need speedy midfielders, let's draft 1 or 2 aboriginal players

From memory there are only a couple of indigenous players I would look at this year....we probably won't get the chance to draft one of them, but might be a chance for the other with a later pick.

[AlecDuncan]

2005 - Nathan Jones or Shannon Hurn would have been handy with pick 4 Josh Kennedy.
Ah yes, the Tambling before Franklin route.

[RiteBak@Ya]

Its so easy to sound like a hero and critise Carlton's choices now, once you have seen who looks like the best from each year. Unless you can show me a link to a thread you posted saying exactly the same as you are now, WITHOUT the benifit of hindsight, then your just a bloody idiot for posting such rubbish. So much so that you are already comparing Gibbs and Selwood in their first year....so can you provide a link to ANY post, after Judd's FIRST year that said he will go on the be one of West Coast's best player in history, if not the best?

OK mate, here are a couple of threads.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=265516

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=283977

My point is pretty simple. I do rate a majority of the players we have drafted, however we need a different player

[damage_inc07]

OK mate, here are a couple of threads.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=265516

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=283977

My point is pretty simple. I do rate a majority of the players we have drafted, however we need a different player

Umm ok, what was the point of those links?? You said in one of them that Gibbs was a given at number 1, now your saying you can only JUST understand why he was taking ahead of Selwood. Speaking of selwood, where was he in your post?? Or hurn & Jones for that matter. Aren't they the ones you were saying we should have drafted....all those links are is you talking about drafting...if I mention Kreuzer/Cotchin/Mortin ect. and 12 months from now one of these turns into a star, should I provide a link to this post to show how much of a recruiting expert I am???

By the way, do you just start a thread every year saying we need tough, hard midfielders??? Care to tell us who it should be from this years draft....other than what other people have already been telling us?? Please, enlighten us.

[HBF]

No question marks over Vesz's speed...one of the true highlights of watching TAC this year is watching vesz get the ball in traffic and then put on the jets and run away like a rampaging bull. You are right about endurance though, at the moment there would be question marks over his ability to play four quarters on the ball at the speed and intensity of AFL. Would probably start out his AFL career in a BP with the occasional stint in the midfield. One reason he may slide to our second round pick :o

Not even the great mids spend 4 quarters on the ball Gilly. They get rotated through the bench. Even Judd gets a rest.

[bLuEbOy1984]

we need a luke hodge type player who goes in and gets the ball and thrashes their body around... u have to love watching hodgy play

[RiteBak@Ya]

Umm ok, what was the point of those links?? You said in one of them that Gibbs was a given at number 1, now your saying you can only JUST understand why he was taking ahead of Selwood. Speaking of selwood, where was he in your post?? Or hurn & Jones for that matter. Aren't they the ones you were saying we should have drafted....all those links are is you talking about drafting...if I mention Kreuzer/Cotchin/Mortin ect. and 12 months from now one of these turns into a star, should I provide a link to this post to show how much of a recruiting expert I am???

By the way, do you just start a thread every year saying we need tough, hard midfielders??? Care to tell us who it should be from this years draft....other than what other people have already been telling us?? Please, enlighten us.

The point is pretty simple. We lack footballers who are mentally and physically intimidating. We have so for a number of years. We certainly have not targeted those types in recent years - is that difficult to understand, perhaps?? I dont know!! you tell me, please.

This is not a 1 of thread I have generated for my maslows on my recruiting prowess. Rather a genuine belief/ opinion I have had for a long time. We lack physical presence and aggresion. Go through the list/ go through the draftees of recent years. Look for your answer?

Sure we need a balance of outside players, creative players, feedser, link players, ect, ect. How about physically tough players that you shit yourself when they line uop on you. Tell me 1 Carlton player you would shit yourself playing on? No dont bother, there arn't any.

How can there be when you don't attempt to draft them?

[Gilly1972]

Not even the great mids spend 4 quarters on the ball Gilly. They get rotated through the bench. Even Judd gets a rest.

You get the idea knitwit :p

[marcmurphy3]

Lets not forget that not only is Vez a hard nut but he is also brilliant by foot. Would cry if we overlooked him with a 2nd rounder. I only saw him in last yrs under 18's but I have a good feeling about him.