View Full Version : Would you be happy with Voss???
wizardcupfinalblues
16 Jul 2007, 17:39
Personally i don't think anyone could do a worse job than Pagan so i would be more than happy to have such a great football name as our coach. Thoughts?
deluxeman
16 Jul 2007, 17:44
Not convinced with Voss. Coaching an AFL team is a tough job and it makes it even harder when you have absolutely no experience in coaching. Voss should either go coach his own team in the VFL/SANFL and get some experience as an assistant coach in the AFL. Voss could definitely become a good coach but I feel that he is too much of a risk.
I would prefer to have Ratten as coach next year and to a lesser extent somebody like McKenna.
I just really hope that the board is interviewing as many candidates as possible and not throwing all their eggs in one basket. We need to do an extensive search process, just like Melbourne are doing and not only interview a selective group of people.
Dramoth
16 Jul 2007, 18:03
Deluxeman has it right.. I would prefer Voss if he has more experience as a coach at the VFL/SANFL level and has done a reasonable job.
Both Ratts and McKenna have the experience to coach us. Whether they do a good job of it is something that we will have to find out.
But anyone is going to be better tha Pagan.
EddieBettsIsAChamp
16 Jul 2007, 18:04
Probably...
blues1985
16 Jul 2007, 18:15
Yes voss is our man am i wrong but didn't he sit in the box with barny for a extended period when he broke his leg.At least our young list will look up to vossy as someone they have seen rise to the top of the tree an may not feel like there grandpa is coaching them.
vossy come on down:thumbsu:
wizardcupfinalblues
16 Jul 2007, 18:27
Yes voss is our man am i wrong but didn't he sit in the box with barny for a extended period when he broke his leg.At least our young list will look up to vossy as someone they have seen rise to the top of the tree an may not feel like there grandpa is coaching them.
vossy come on down:thumbsu:
Very well said:rolleyes:
Cyborg_
16 Jul 2007, 18:57
I would prefer someome outside the match committee now and also not an unproven former player who has barely retired.
Voss as an assistant would be fine. But he would not accept that. The game has changed so much in the last few years. Tactics are vital. The game is becoming more like soccer or basketball. With zones and suprise tactics trying to create a mismatch.
For example in soccer you chip the ball around trying to drag defenders away. All out attack wont work. Just like it has shown to not work in the AFL under Pagan this year.
In reality you need 20 different strategies to gain a small advantage. Trying to manipulate the forward set up to take advantage of Fev and Fish and Kennedy and Waite and Setanta (when there). Who has the edge over there opponent. Its just kick it long to Fevola and hope he can outmark 3 or 4 defenders. There is no space for him to lead into either.
Who are the 55m kicks in the team who can bomb a few goals on the run with the extra defender or 2 that opposition have?
A dominant forward should buy you a few cheap goals from the flankers and midfielders who are left unattended 60m out. But you have to have a game plan to pick holes in the zone. Having set shots from 45 and 50m out where you have already set up your defensive should mean if you do miss that you wont have an easy rebound goal.
Carlton's midfielders rarely kick goals or crumb the ball. Murphy is the most dangerous and also the one who sets up the most scoring possabilities. He is quick and decisive to use the ball.
I am not sure Voss is the man to come up with all the myriad of game plans needed for different teams and different times in a game.
There are plenty of experienced assistant coaches who have a huge say in how there team sets up and tactics. 1 of those is needed I believe in 2008.
Blah Blah Blue
16 Jul 2007, 19:16
Yes.
Yes.
yes please [referring to mine and above previous posts on this subject]
mike ockerts
16 Jul 2007, 19:21
anybody will be better than pagan:o
i see someone has voted to keep denni$, please come forward and state as to why you think we should:confused:
Battman
16 Jul 2007, 20:50
Personally i don't think anyone could do a worse job than Pagan so i would be more than happy to have such a great football name as our coach. Thoughts?
Voss might become a great coach, then again it's a gamble. Retain Pagan and the club could lose half its record membership. Appoint a used coach and many members will disagree, no matter who it is. Appoint Voss and there is no baggage. The members would remain and may even go up.
I think it might be the new beginning.
Then again I thought that at the start of this year.
Voss has the potential, but who was the last person to become senior coach with no coaching experience - Tim Watson?
Sticks 4
17 Jul 2007, 11:56
Pagan should go. For whatever reason he's not getting the results he should. The reasons have been debated over and over again so lets not start it up again. The bottom line is, he doesn't fit with the team anymore. It's time for a change and a new message.
I would prefer to see someone that has done the hard yards as assistant coach for a few years. Ratten, Harvey, McKenna? David Noble is an assiatnt at Adelaide that coached Glenelg in the SANFL for a while and turned their fortunes around for the better. Maybe he could be looked at? Sean Rehn coached West Adelaide and is now at Brisbane, learning under the great Leigh Matthews (one of the main reasons people give for Voss being preferred). Longmire was, from all reports, a very close second in the St.Kilda job.
My point to all of this is that there are many, many potential coaches out there sitting in coaches boxes every week and they all have more experience than Voss. Why would we take a chance on an untried coach?
Can we afford to take the risk over the next 3 years of our list?
blueskies
17 Jul 2007, 12:43
I am willing to give Voss a try, because ...
a) he is young and I like the idea of a young coach growing with a young team
b) he is a natural born leader of men and God knows we need that instilled amongst our list
c) he was a Carlton fan as a kid
d) he claims he understands everything there is to know about modern footy
e) chances are he will provide a tighter game plan than Pagan's current sieve style of footy
That said, I would not give him a long-term deal. He needs to prove himself to a certain degree, and it would be a disaster if he turned out a failure (anything is possible especially with new coaches) and you couldn't get rid of him. I think the club have learned with Pagan that it's best to avoid long-term deals if possible. I know Voss would want a guarantee of being given a fair go, but he needs to understand the club's position that they would not want to be tied to him if it turned out he didn't have the mental fibre to handle the stresses of the job (even long-time assistants wouldn't know what this pressure would be like). He needs to prove himself in the short-term, beyond fair reason of course. I would suggest at the very least placing a clause on the contract that stipulated the club could not afford x amount of blow-outs (barring a horrendous run with injuries of course which wouldn't be the coach's fault). If he can't motivate the players to avoid blow0outs (like Pagan can't) then that would be seen as failure in my book. Having the playing group executing the game plan to a T could understandably take time to achieve, and I expect with a new coach like Voss that he will make errors along the way. But motivating the troops should not be an issue, and if it is then it becomes a significant club issue. This is where Pagan has failed in my view, ie: the players give up way too early in games and have done so for years now, and I link this to their lack of passion for their coach.
BlueYoss
17 Jul 2007, 15:13
Ironic that
a common argument for Voss is "He couldn't do any worse than Pagan"
a common argument for Pagan is "no one else could have done any better"
Actually, it's not ironic -its tragic!
TheKopEnd
17 Jul 2007, 15:56
What about Chris Bond ? He and McKenna are the next assistances to step up to senior coaching. Also he knows about the carlton history as an ex player and if you can remember him playing he was head down over the ball and he will insill the right attitude this club needs and the right leaders.
blueskies
17 Jul 2007, 16:19
Heard McKenna on the radio the other day and I liked what I heard.
diesel1
17 Jul 2007, 17:44
I am stunned as to how many people would want a person who hasn’t really coached a club apart from the AIS, to coach an AFL team! Voss would be a great coach, but don’t think he is ready.
If you owned VISY and wanted to sack the CEO, would you put one of your dedicated employees as a CEO? I know I wouldn’t. Take channel nine’s case with Eddie.
Any club that would make Voss coach would be mad. I would love to have him as an assistant instead of Libba, nothing more than that.
Saying that, I really do feel for Pagan, have been a fan but I just think having a new face running the club would do wonders for the club. I reckon someone like Peter Sumich would be ideal for the bluebaggers.
TheGeneral
17 Jul 2007, 18:28
No.
McKenna or Bond.
Yes, but I would prefer Ratten.
McKenna or Bond.
Or them.
James Bond? :D
EddieBettsIsAChamp
17 Jul 2007, 18:53
Someone has to say it, keep Pagan:P
wizardcupfinalblues
18 Jul 2007, 17:34
Connoly?
marcmurphy3
18 Jul 2007, 17:42
My favourite 3 would be Voss, Bond and Ratten with Voss ahead at this stage.
Bluebear
18 Jul 2007, 17:44
My opinion on Voss is that he should be interviewed and lined up with the other candidates.
If the board/selection committee decide Voss is the man then I'll be quite happy. I'm sure however that he will have to beat strong candidates such as McKenna, Longmire and Bond.
Given that I have no idea which of these would be better I won't say which I prefer.
Having said that apparently Bond was very close to getting the St Kilda job last year.
Personally I think Pagan should see out his final year. My reason are well stated and I won't go through them again.
Having said this, I'm almost resigned to the fact that he will go at the end of the season.
That's footy. I won't be too phased by it, other than to say that it needs to be the tip of the iceburg.
I just hope that if we are still being spanked next year that people will realise that until we have a very good list we need to give the coach, whoever it is, the time to turn some of the list over, develop talent, and then adapt a game plan to win.
GO BLUES.:thumbsu:
Broadside
18 Jul 2007, 18:22
I hope they go with either McKenna or Voss. If they choose Voss I have enough faith in Swann to believe Voss is up to the job, and they will put appropriate experienced support around him.
Pagan needs to go, is it his fault or not? I don't care, we need to short circuit what is happening on field, and fast....the buck stops with the coach. I am really worried the kids aren't developing as they should, or getting a loser mentality....we need a winner and McKenna and Voss fit the bill.
I like Ratts but would say no, we need a fresh start.