View Full Version : Is the Roos list really 12 goals better than ours?
legendtofski
16 Jul 2007, 23:39
Is it? - even minus their key forward, whatshisface, the bloke from the Dawks?
After the mauling by bloody useless Freo and the 'star turn' by the #1 phony in the League - Jeffrey the Tosser Farmer, I'm really starting to think this must be true...
No they are not.
They are pretty much playing to their optimum, and we are not even close to that.
out of harmes' way
17 Jul 2007, 10:26
Yes it is a better than ours but the biggest difference is they have a coach who's getting the most out of his players. We have a coach who is past his use-by-date and is living on borrowed time.
blueskies
17 Jul 2007, 10:29
The Kangaroos have a few more elite experienced mids (Simpson, Harvey, Grant vs. Stevens), but other than that I think the lists are not too dissimilar. It says a lot about Pagan doesn't it.
Michael Jezz
17 Jul 2007, 11:14
They are a six goal better side than us on talent. Mainly due to the fact they have a midfield & Ruck combo that would clear the ball against us 2 to 1. Also add that they could do this and play Wells on a wing.
They are a six goal better side than us on talent. Mainly due to the fact they have a midfield & Ruck combo that would clear the ball against us 2 to 1. Also add that they could do this and play Wells on a wing.
It always takes a newbie to drive home some common sense. You're still screwed in this art without a ruckman, regardless of the changin' a times. And currently Carlton have none.
everyone's second team the roos I like them now that Carey doesn't play anymore...they have passion and spirit and the way they smothered Freo and ran and ran and never looked like being broken..can only come from a coach who always played that way and won't take mediocrity....good on ya Laidley....
SA Blue
17 Jul 2007, 15:06
Going on that logic.
We beat Port by 6 + goals.
They beat the Eagles by 15 goals.
We must be a 21 goal better side than the Eagles.
RoyalBlue
17 Jul 2007, 15:10
Not 12 goals, I don't know where that statement came from, but it's untrue.
I reckon if we played each other ten weeks in a row we'd probably average out a winning margin of three or four goals - at the same time dropping at least one game.
Bizarre concept.
No they are not.
They are pretty much playing to their optimum, and we are not even close to that.
Optimum?
We have had Thompson, Gibson and Wells out for a large chunk of the year.
We have played alot of youngsters (As much as you guys).
McMahon, Thomas (I think), Smith have all got Rising Star noms, plus we've got guys like Lower Campbell, McIntosh, Wells, Hale, Firrito, Petrie, Moran, Hansen etc who have all played yet arent even near their full capacity.
Dont underrate our list.
kangaroos have a ruckman who is performing well
kangaroos have experienced players in key area's and are not relying on their kids to carry the team
kangaroos have true leaders
kangaroos have a ruckman who is performing well
kangaroos have experienced players in key area's and are not relying on their kids to carry the team
kangaroos have true leaders
Firrito @ FB (23 yo)
Petrie @ CHB (24 yo)
Harris/Swallow in the centre (24 yo and 20 yo)
Up forward we have Brown and sometimes Petrie with Thommo missing.
Our backline is young.
[ToTTi]
17 Jul 2007, 15:29
Going on that logic.
We beat Port by 6 + goals.
They beat the Eagles by 15 goals.
We must be a 21 goal better side than the Eagles.
Well, thats the logic I was going by!
:D
Firrito @ FB (23 yo)
Petrie @ CHB (24 yo)
Harris/Swallow in the centre (24 yo and 20 yo)
Up forward we have Brown and sometimes Petrie with Thommo missing.
Our backline is young.
23 = 5 years in the system
24 = 6 years in the system
archer plays back and he is a key to your side.
RoyalBlue
17 Jul 2007, 16:22
23 = 5 years in the system
24 = 6 years in the system
archer plays back and he is a key to your side.
So our ten wins this year are due to Archer?
The guy is a god, but, that's not really the case.
LancePicioane
17 Jul 2007, 16:38
Penis envy.
blueskies
17 Jul 2007, 16:39
kangaroos have a ruckman who is performing well
kangaroos have experienced players in key area's and are not relying on their kids to carry the team
kangaroos have true leaders
The games differential among key position players is not huge, but of course Lance does bugger all these days.
Petrie 121
Watt 121
Brown 102
Firrito 73
vs.
Whitnall 213
Fevola 136
Thornton 104
Waite 77
Fisher 63
And they also have Archer (302) & Jones (108).
And in midfield the difference is not extreme either...
Simpson 257
Grant 212
Harvey 231
Rawlings 148
Sinclair 126
Harris 106
Wells 94
vs.
Koutoufides 275
Stevens 192
Scotland 131
Houlihan 150
Walker 68
Simpson 57
Carrazzo 55
Bentick 48
I really think the big difference between us and them is they have 4-5 great midfielders.
Oh and of course they have a coach who enforces a 'tight' modern game of football, which means they are always within striking distance of winning.
But in 2-3 years when we have a team drilled in the modern game, and the Murphys and Gibbs and Cotchins and Griggs and Kennedys and Setantas and Aisakes get their 50 games up, we should start to overtake the Roos.
blues4flag
17 Jul 2007, 18:09
Optimum?
We have had Thompson, Gibson and Wells out for a large chunk of the year.
We have played alot of youngsters (As much as you guys).
McMahon, Thomas (I think), Smith have all got Rising Star noms, plus we've got guys like Lower Campbell, McIntosh, Wells, Hale, Firrito, Petrie, Moran, Hansen etc who have all played yet arent even near their full capacity.
Dont underrate our list.
Thomas is NOT a talented player. He's meant to be a goal sneak - yet I've seen full backs with a better goal sense than he has. Plus, he is one of the worst field kicks going around. I've lost count of the amount of times I've seen him kick it metres over the targets head.
Thomas is NOT a talented player. He's meant to be a goal sneak - yet I've seen full backs with a better goal sense than he has. Plus, he is one of the worst field kicks going around. I've lost count of the amount of times I've seen him kick it metres over the targets head.
If Thomas cant kick, add Walker aswell.
Thomas is not a goal sneak, just because he is Aboriginal, doesnt mean he's automatically going to become one.
Will be a midfielder.
No. I would say 3 - 6 - remember when we faced them they were running hot and we played well, almost won the game.
They are playing well because they're working as a team, have confidence, leadership and their senior players are standing up. We have none of those at the moment. It's not just "talent" like some would like to believe.
TorresIsGod
17 Jul 2007, 23:08
We only lost to the Kangaroos because Bannister didn't play, if Bannister did play, he would have played on Grant, and kept Grant goal-less, and Carlton would have won.
mediumsizered
17 Jul 2007, 23:31
So our ten wins this year are due to Archer?
The guy is a god, but, that's not really the case.
You're right. The 10 wins this year are due significantly to the consistently good form of Harvey, Simpson & Grant. The Kangaroos last loss, against the Eagles, was on one of the rare days this season when this trio & Harvey in particular, did not play well. Brent Harvey's form this year has been as good as anyone in the competition. If only we had a Brent Harvey at Carlton.
legendtofski
18 Jul 2007, 00:59
If only we had a Brent Harvey at Carlton.
Well we've got Koutarouta!
blues4flag
18 Jul 2007, 01:11
If Thomas cant kick, add Walker aswell.
Thomas is not a goal sneak, just because he is Aboriginal, doesnt mean he's automatically going to become one.
Will be a midfielder.
I've seen him spend a heap of time in the forward line, however, that's probably expected of a 1st year.
That said, Walker's kicking > Adam Simpson's > Swallow's >>>>>>>>>>>Thomas
Funkalicous
18 Jul 2007, 01:37
Who can honestly take Carlton seriously for the rest of the year? We have a hack coach and we are tanking for draft picks.
A stone would be a 12 goal better team than us atm... :thumbsd:
Bluebear
18 Jul 2007, 10:27
Is it? - even minus their key forward, whatshisface, the bloke from the Dawks?
After the mauling by bloody useless Freo and the 'star turn' by the #1 phony in the League - Jeffrey the Tosser Farmer, I'm really starting to think this must be true...
Is that like saying we beat Essendon and they beat Sydney then we are better than Sydney.....but they beat us.....so......:confused:
Are we a 130 points better than WCE?
We beat port by 6 goals, they beat WCE by 91 points............you see its difficult to comapre from week to week across teams.
You're right. The 10 wins this year are due significantly to the consistently good form of Harvey, Simpson & Grant. The Kangaroos last loss, against the Eagles, was on one of the rare days this season when this trio & Harvey in particular, did not play well. Brent Harvey's form this year has been as good as anyone in the competition. If only we had a Brent Harvey at Carlton.
You forgot McIntosh Wellsys 6 week blast, Smith returning, Gibsons solid year down back, McMahons presence, Lowers calm head.
It has been our younger players.
Grant has been only ok this year.
The Old Dark Navy's
18 Jul 2007, 12:15
Penis envy.Contribute constructively or don't darken our door step.
NorthBhoy
18 Jul 2007, 12:25
You're right. The 10 wins this year are due significantly to the consistently good form of Harvey, Simpson & Grant. The Kangaroos last loss, against the Eagles, was on one of the rare days this season when this trio & Harvey in particular, did not play well. Brent Harvey's form this year has been as good as anyone in the competition. .
Harvey has been sensational all year. Simpson very good. Grant has been excellent in some games, poor in others. Probably a 50/50 split so far. But to say a side that sits third is there because two players have had good years is simply ludicrous.
McIntosh has gone up about 4 levels. Swallow has improved. Wells was kiling them before tearing a medial. Jesse Smith is the best 20yo I've seen at the club outside Carey. Petrie is doing it all. Harris motors along. Jones is our leading goalkicked. Firrito is our FB, Pratt our best defender all year. None of these guys are over 25. We don't have anyone over 25 in a key position. Not one!! Campbell, Thomas, McMahon, Hansen, Lower, Adams have all debuted this year.
To answer the thread question, of course our list isn't 12 goals better. No list is 12 goals better than another AFL side.
The Grover
18 Jul 2007, 13:36
Kangaroos team is far better than Carlton's & will be for at least another 2 years.
For anyone in doubt of the difference between the 2 teams I have made a list of comparable players in similar positions from both teams.
Rucks: McIntosh/Hale Ackland/Cloke
Midfield: Harvey Murphy
Simpson Stevens
Wells Simpson
Swallow Carrazzo
Harris Bentick
Rawlings Walker
Forwards: Thompson Fevola
Petrie Kennedy
Jones Waite
Brown Whitnall
Grant Lappin
Thomas Betts
Edwards Fisher
Backs: Archer Bannister
Firrito Setanta.O
Pratt Wiggins
Gibson Saddington
Sinclair Scotland
Watt Hartlett
Green Houlihan
Smith Gibbs
I have bolded the clear winners.
Some players have played more games than opposition player, tried to match them up best I could.
Obviously some Carlton players will improve & turn the tables on match-up player, but pretty clear where the Blues rank against Roos.
Bluebear
18 Jul 2007, 14:08
Any team with a senior midfield such as Harvey, Grant, Simpson is way out in front of us ATM.
Now more than ever the midfield is the key to success. WCE have shown this with a good backline and an average Fwd line, you can still win flags provided you have a gun midfield (that word again :D).
With Stevens, Murphey and Gibbs in a few years time we may have this, but we are not there yet. Add one of Cotchin/Matsen/Palmer to that and we are looking good. (Add Kreuzer as well and it becomes POTENTIALLY great in 3 years time).
So expect that Black, Power and Lappin will tear us a new one this week. Its a deficiency that can't be corrected overnight............but it wull heppen.;)
TheGeneral
18 Jul 2007, 14:13
Harvey has been sensational all year. Simpson very good. Grant has been excellent in some games, poor in others. Probably a 50/50 split so far. But to say a side that sits third is there because two players have had good years is simply ludicrous.
McIntosh has gone up about 4 levels. Swallow has improved. Wells was kiling them before tearing a medial. Jesse Smith is the best 20yo I've seen at the club outside Carey. Petrie is doing it all. Harris motors along. Jones is our leading goalkicked. Firrito is our FB, Pratt our best defender all year. None of these guys are over 25. We don't have anyone over 25 in a key position. Not one!! Campbell, Thomas, McMahon, Hansen, Lower, Adams have all debuted this year.
To answer the thread question, of course our list isn't 12 goals better. No list is 12 goals better than another AFL side.
Except for Petrie and Watt who were born in 1982 or later. :confused: :rolleyes:
Kangaroos team is far better than Carlton's & will be for at least another 2 years.
For anyone in doubt of the difference between the 2 teams I have made a list of comparable players in similar positions from both teams.
Rucks: McIntosh/Hale Ackland/Cloke
Midfield: Harvey Murphy
Simpson Stevens
Wells Simpson
Swallow Carrazzo
Harris Bentick
Rawlings Walker
Forwards: Thompson Fevola
Petrie Kennedy
Jones Waite
Brown Whitnall
Grant Lappin
Thomas Betts
Edwards Fisher
Backs: Archer Bannister
Firrito Setanta.O
Pratt Wiggins
Gibson Saddington
Sinclair Scotland
Watt Hartlett
Green Houlihan
Smith Gibbs
I have bolded the clear winners.
Some players have played more games than opposition player, tried to match them up best I could.
Obviously some Carlton players will improve & turn the tables on match-up player, but pretty clear where the Blues rank against Roos.
Rawlings isn't a better talent than Walker and just a hack tagger IMO. No one would take Rawlings ahead of Walker if both players became available in the PSD.
Firrito is crap.
He's nowhere near as versatile as Setanta who has played ruck, back and forward this year.
Setanta easily for the future.
And where's Thornton? :confused:
They're going to be a middle of the road side with just a handful of gun kids when they lose their veterans. I'd love to follow a side that has Brown, Watt, Petrie, Firrito, Rawlings as their leaders and most experienced players running around. ;) :o
Except for Petrie and Watt who were born in 1982 or later. :confused: :rolleyes:
Petrie is 24 turning 25, and if you didnt notice, NB said over 25.
Can you read?
Plus you have just shown you have no knowledge of our style, gameplan or list, Watt doesnt play FB or CHB.
Firrito aged 23 and Petrie aged 24 do.
Rawlings isn't a better talent than Walker and just a hack tagger IMO. No one would take Rawlings ahead of Walker if both players became available in the PSD.
Of course you'd take Walker, atm Rawlings has achieved more at a better club. One that finishes higher each year than Carlton and a player that finishes higher each year in the BnF.
Firrito is crap.
No he isnt.
He's nowhere near as versatile as Setanta who has played ruck, back and forward this year.
Setanta is 24 years old.
Get that? 24 years old.
Leigh Brown is versatile, about the same age as Setanta and has better stats this year, doesnt mean he is going to improve.
Setanta easily for the future.
And where's Thornton? :confused:
Thornton is good, I'll give you that.
NorthBhoy
18 Jul 2007, 14:27
Except for Petrie and Watt who were born in 1982 or later. :confused: :rolleyes:
Petrie's 24. I forgot Watt. He is ancient at 26. Almost ready for a pention.
Rawlings isn't a better talent than Walker and just a hack tagger IMO. No one would take Rawlings ahead of Walker if both players became available in the PSD.
Rawlings is excellent at his job, but agree that no-one would take him before Walker if given the chance. For a bloke you picked at 2, you would hope that is the case.
Firrito is crap.
He's nowhere near as versatile as Setanta who has played ruck, back and forward this year.
Setanta easily for the future.
Seriously, that's the stupidest thing I've read on Bigfooty, expecially coming off a game where Firrito absolutely caned Pavlich. Smashed him. And he's a year younger that Setanta.
The Grover
18 Jul 2007, 14:47
Except for Petrie and Watt who were born in 1982 or later. :confused: :rolleyes:
Rawlings isn't a better talent than Walker and just a hack tagger IMO. No one would take Rawlings ahead of Walker if both players became available in the PSD.
Firrito is crap.
He's nowhere near as versatile as Setanta who has played ruck, back and forward this year.
Setanta easily for the future.
And where's Thornton? :confused:
They're going to be a middle of the road side with just a handful of gun kids when they lose their veterans. I'd love to follow a side that has Brown, Watt, Petrie, Firrito, Rawlings as their leaders and most experienced players running around. ;) :o
I compiled the list off the top of my head, hence was bound to forget someone(Thornton).
I also said Kangaroos will be a better team for the next 2 years, didn't comment on beyond that.
Firrito is not crap, Saddington & Bannister would be best to describe the word crap.
Yes Walker will be a much better player than Rawlings.
Agree Setanta will probably exceed Firrito.
I think I also said quite a few Blues players will surpass the Roos player in the coming years.