Lance Whitnall

[wizardcupfinalblues]

I think every Carlton supporter shares the opinion that it was a poor choice to make him captain and that he probably shouldnt be in the side. With this in mind what is the point of him being on the Carlton list and us paying him big money? My answer: There is no point. In my opinion we should trade Lance Whitnall but then i thought, who for? Plain and simple i don't think we would get anything for him. Does anyone have any potential trade options or other opinions?

[bluegal1983]

Article in the MX today regarding Ricky Nixon speaking on Sport 927 this morning. He said that Lance has concentrated on his weight the past few weeks and he is the lightest he has ever been and his skin folds are also the smallest they have been.

He must really want that contract next year.

[RiCHii]

Would'nt mind using him as traid bait, but the question is would we be able to get something for him ?

[HBF]

Article in the MX today regarding Ricky Nixon speaking on Sport 927 this morning. He said that Lance has concentrated on his weight the past few weeks and he is the lightest he has ever been and his skin folds are also the smallest they have been.

He must really want that contract next year.

I'm more concerned about his knees, rather than what his weight and skin folds are at this point of the year. I don't suppose Nixon made mention of his knees, did he BG?

[RiCHii]

I'm more concerned about his knees, rather than what his weight and skin folds are at this point of the year. I don't suppose Nixon made mention of his knees, did he BG?
Im guessing if he wanted a contract. No

[HBF]

Im guessing if he wanted a contract. No

Absolutely!

[bluegal1983]

I'm more concerned about his knees, rather than what his weight and skin folds are at this point of the year. I don't suppose Nixon made mention of his knees, did he BG?

He said that as a result of his knee injury, Lance was slowed down, hence why he played in the backline.

That was pretty much it.

He did emphasise that Carlton would be mad not to re-sign a player with 150 games experience under their belt.

[RiCHii]

He said that as a result of his knee injury, Lance was slowed down, hence why he played in the backline.

That was pretty much it.

He did emphasise that Carlton would be mad not to re-sign a player with 150 games experience under their belt.
Slowed him down ? .. how much slower could he get, honestly !? ..

[Bluebear]

I think every Carlton supporter shares the opinion that it was a poor choice to make him captain and that he probably shouldnt be in the side. With this in mind what is the point of him being on the Carlton list and us paying him big money? My answer: There is no point. In my opinion we should trade Lance Whitnall but then i thought, who for? Plain and simple i don't think we would get anything for him. Does anyone have any potential trade options or other opinions?
Funny, at the time a lot of people thought it was a good idea. So that opening statement would be wrong.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=298813&highlight=Carlton+Captain

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. :rolleyes:

[deluxeman]

I supported the decision to make Lance the captain at the start of the year. And even if we had made Stevens captain, chances are Lance would have ended up as captain anyway due to his injury.

Nevertheless, Lance's time at our football club is up. Nobody is going to give us anything for him, he doesn't have a position and he has knee problems. We really shouldn't be offering him a new contract. Would hate to think we'll delist somebody like Flint or Hartlett and give Lance a new contract instead.

[KnaveyBlue]

Nobody will trade for him.

Gone I reckon =(

[bluegal1983]

Slowed him down ? .. how much slower could he get, honestly !? ..

Hey you get no argument from me! I agree!!!

[HBF]

I supported the decision to make Lance the captain at the start of the year. And even if we had made Stevens captain, chances are Lance would have ended up as captain anyway due to his injury.

Nevertheless, Lance's time at our football club is up. Nobody is going to give us anything for him, he doesn't have a position and he has knee problems. We really shouldn't be offering him a new contract. Would hate to think we'll delist somebody like Flint or Hartlett and give Lance a new contract instead.

Very very well said mate.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

[as0l0]

i don't think it was the wrong choice, it just didn't turn out as expected.

[av76]

I think we shouldn't write off Lance to quick. If his knees right, he might continue to make a contribution for a few more years.

People say he's too slow...but he's shown several times what he can do with even an average level of fitness. A bit like Lappin, too skinny and too slow but can still do some pretty good things. If Fev is traded, he can play stay at home forward with Kennedy and Fish doing the leading.

It all up to the knee, but there is no reason why Lance can continue to perform like he did last year and several rounds this year. It not like he has ever pushed his limits in terms of fitness levels, so if the knee is manageable, and he starts looking after he body better, there is no reason he can't retain last years fitness levels until his early 30s.

The other thing to remember, is he has a young family, so he has every incentive to look after his body more than in the past.

It all comes back to how bad the knee is...and they said many current AFL footballers today have similar levels of deterioration. Time will tell I suppose.

[one_twelve112]

Let's be honest. Lance hasn't played good footy for 3 or 4 years now. He has been well beaten by good players (Rocca, Richo, Croad etc...) and been statistically flattered by accumulating a stack of uncontested possessions at HB, or getting cheap ones once the game is already gone. This has all come under the banner of being a "smart footballer" but now, I really think he has been found out by the speed of the game.

I think the club needs to make a call here. I do believe the Fev suspension was the club making a stance to give the impression of an improved culture despite poor onfiled performances. How would not renewing a 10+ player/captains contract reflect on the clubs culture to the outside world?

[BlueBoyBrett]

He said that as a result of his knee injury, Lance was slowed down, hence why he played in the backline.

That was pretty much it.

He did emphasise that Carlton would be mad not to re-sign a player with 150 games experience under their belt.


Fancy Ricky Nixon saying a club couldn`t do without one of his players....lol.

Would be interesting to know what sort of cut guys like Nixon get from a contract signed by one of the players they manage.

[BlueYoss]

Would hate to think we'll delist somebody like Flint or Hartlett and give Lance a new contract instead.

There is no shortage of unproven inexperienced kids on our list, and if any of them were really showing solid form for the Bullants they would have gotten plenty of games this year.

The sad fact is, this year kids are getting games because of injuries or lack of better options, not because they have earned their call up.

What we are sorely lacking is experience and leadership.

Lance may not be the best runner around but he brings so much more to the table. Often you don't see it on TV, but when you're at the game there is a lot of blocking and hard work off the ball that he does to free up our other players to take marks inside 50, not the mention the guidance he provides on field -eg. Lappin's 4 goal 3rd quarter to turn the Bulldogs game in our favour this year was very much due to Lance's off the ball work.

Lance may be having his worst year form wise -something further accentuated by the suddenly contentious decision to make him captain- but even so we are still a better side with him in it. We have not won a game without Lance for four and a half seasons!

If his knee gets the all clear from club doctors IMO he still offers more to the club than a 21yo who has been on the list for 3 years and still barely managed to get a game in the worst Carlton side ever.

Give him one more year and play him out of the goal square,

[blueskies]

Article in the MX today regarding Ricky Nixon speaking on Sport 927 this morning. He said that Lance has concentrated on his weight the past few weeks and he is the lightest he has ever been and his skin folds are also the smallest they have been.

He must really want that contract next year.

We've heard it all before.

And Lance's problem with his knees you would think are related to his weight problem. It's a vicious cycle.

The club should have traded Lance 2 years ago. Lance has been playing CHF since he was 17, and with his weight issues, the end was always going to come quick.

[blueskies]

I think we shouldn't write off Lance to quick. If his knees right, he might continue to make a contribution for a few more years.
.

He has degenerative knees, and he has played CHF since he was 17, and he is fat, do you really think he is going to have a rennaisance?

[Bluebear]

The issue with degenerative knees, and degenrative joints of any nature is that they go through cycles of being good and bad.
Working inthis field I see it a lot.

Yes, Lance's knees will only get worse overall.
Yes, it is possible that after this flare up Lance will be able to play football at the level he did early last year.
Yes, it is possible that the degenration has become so bad that it will not settle down and everytime he tries to work the knee it blows up on him.
Aaron Hamill is an example of this type of knee.

The fact is we don't know yet whether Lance has a knee that will settle long enough for him to play and be managed through a season. Given the current experience of our list, IMO he still has a lot to offer the developing Kennedy, Austin, Hartlett and Bower etc.

Should he not be able to train, or when he returns he breaks down, or is clearly not able to compete then I would support Lance not having his contract renewed.

My point (if you have got this far :D) is that he deserves the chance to prove his fitness for the remainder of the season and then be judged on what he can offer.

Some people here are getting a little premature IMO.:thumbsu:

[blueskies]

The value of Lance to our developing talls can't be over-estimated, I'm with you there.

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Article in the MX today regarding Ricky Nixon speaking on Sport 927 this morning. He said that Lance has concentrated on his weight the past few weeks and he is the lightest he has ever been and his skin folds are also the smallest they have been.

He must really want that contract next year.Rather than encourage me, this really concerns me. Why is it that when Lance's place at the club is threatened, he is able to go out and do something about his weight in a matter of weeks? Why does he need such motivation at 28 years of age? Does this mean he doesn't try and lose weight at any other time of his career? He seems to lack the discipline to sustain any fitness regime in order to prolong his career.

[Bluebear]

The value of Lance to our developing talls can't be over-estimated, I'm with you there.
Don't forget also that this is the first year that Waite and Fisher have played most games (hope I haven't jinxed them by typing this :o), Hartlett is starting to look like 10 games a year are just about too much for his body, and Kennedy has had his share of injuries as well.

3 rounds into next season without Red,lets say Waite goes down, followed two weeks later by Fisher.
Fev gets the sooks again because his trade fell through, and we've got Kennedy at FF.

Might be nice to have Red there.......IF he is fit (see above).

Check out our ruck depth and people's commments re having French around still.

Doesn't take much to expose our depth, and if Whitnall can string a few games together we'd be playing Russian roulette to not give him a one year deal with a second year perfromance/output based extension built in.

[blueskies]

It cuts both ways though.

I mean I am all for having Lance on the list in 2008 for security purposes and to show the kids the way, but I don't want him to stall the development of our kids in any way, ie: if the list is fit and healthy and the Kennedys and Aisakes and Hartletts are really coming along nicely, then I'd hate for Lance to keep one of them out of the side.

But that's just me, I want to fast-track this young side as quick as realistically possible.

I can see Lance playing a cameo role in 2008.

[Bluebear]

It cuts both ways though.

I mean I am all for having Lance on the list in 2008 for security purposes and to show the kids the way, but I don't want him to stall the development of our kids in any way, ie: if the list is fit and healthy and the Kennedys and Aisakes and Hartletts are really coming along nicely, then I'd hate for Lance to keep one of them out of the side.

But that's just me, I want to fast-track this young side as quick as realistically possible.

I can see Lance playing a cameo role in 2008.
Yep, no question.

Much like the way they have used Banno and Saddo this year.
If they perform well they get a spot. Its then up to the younger guys to perform and take that spot.

I'm a great believer in making the kids earn it. It breeds a good work ethic.
Part of the problem with our current team IMO is that too many of them have got loads of senior games without having to earn thier spot, and without having to do lots to keep their spot.

I don't want to create another generation of players that don't want to work hard to play footy by handing out senior spots because "Its their turn".
If this means in the short term, playing someone like Saddo or even Whitnall ahead of them then so be it.

Hartlett is a good example here.
Hadn't had a great season but due to injuries came up for the Crows game. Didn't play well. Was dropped. Went back and played quite well a few weeks in a row for the ants. When he came back he was looking a better player and showed a little bit.
Grigg will come back similarly. Make them earn the call up, and expect them to produce while they are there.

It is a double standard to some of the senior players, but this is not about getting these kids up to the level of the senior side. Its about getting them BEYOND that level.:thumbsu:

[lily of laguna]

Good points have been made re lance and his value to the team in experience etc.. (even have Bluebear and Blueskies agreeing, which is good to see:thumbsu:), and as long as his knees dont prevent him from being fit and playing at the required level, he will know doubt earn his spot on the list.

I was just thinking of how Gibbs has played with a dodgy ankle the last two weeks, which seems to be unnecessary given our current position, and then related that to playing lance earlier in the year when it was obvious he was underdone and not upto scratch.

I think the MC has got it very wrong with Lance. He had very interupted preseason (due to his knees) and was no where near ready for AFL level fitness wise. Playing with and carrying too much weight with a dodgy knee is a recipe for disaster, and I think he would have really benefitted from gradually increasing his fitness and dropping weight as he appears to have done during his current layoff.

If he had gone down this path earlier in the year, he would not have performed so badly, raising the ire of most supporters (his performances did warrant criticism) and also placing his current position on the list up in the air.

I really hope the MC and medicos take some steps in not playing unfit/injured players as I can see no real upside to this practice!!

[out of harmes' way]

No one would take him in a trade, couldn't afford the associated catering costs.

[J-Train]

No one would take him in a trade, couldn't afford the associated catering costs.

*Cues up the canned laughter track*
*Flashing applause sign for the live audience*

:rolleyes:
You should think about comedy writing for The Wedge.

[Korn]

He's always had weight problem, if he is fully fit and skinny, he tends to play a lot better. But the thing is his weight goes up and down. He might be fully fit now but if we have offer him a new contract he will definately put the all the weight back. A new contract should have a clause saying he should remain at certain weight at all times. He should be between 95-98 kg.

I know a new fat farm for him, at the socceroos training session, players loses 2-3 kg per session, perhaps Lance can go to singapore/thailand for a month.

[ericpascoe]

If we could trade for him, we should.

But that is unrealistic - nobody will give us anything for him.

So I see our options as straight out delisting him or a one year, low cost contract.

If he can play, then sacking him and effectively ending his career at 28 is a pretty piss poor way to treat your skipper.

I'd be in favour of a one year contract. If he doesnt accept that, it's his decision.

And as for not wanting to delist good kids and keep Whitnall, I reckon there are 6 or 7 we can punt EASY, before worrying about Lance

[AlecDuncan]

i don't think it was the wrong choice, it just didn't turn out as expected.
Correct. Shit happens.

[Blue Dimension]

Jeez, for crying out loud, Lance won our best and fairest last year. He's having a bad year because of an injury, get off his back!

Yes, i do understand the fustration of many Carlton supporters, i myself have felt it with Lance this year, but we have to remember what form he is capable of. Even though he does have a degenerative knee, it didn't effect him last year, and if it did, it didn't really have much effect on his performance - he was excellent.

So...he's out of form and his knee is worse, but gee, if they delisted him at the end of this year then it'd be very disappointing. Give him another year after this, give him the pre-season to get really fit and see how he goes. Whats the worst that could happen honestly? He has a bad year. Big whoop. It's not like we're gonna get anywhere next year anyway. Best thing that could happen is he regains form and is the lance we've known him to be.

[mediumsizered]

Jeez, for crying out loud, Lance won our best and fairest last year. He's having a bad year because of an injury, get off his back!

Yes, i do understand the fustration of many Carlton supporters, i myself have felt it with Lance this year, but we have to remember what form he is capable of. Even though he does have a degenerative knee, it didn't effect him last year, and if it did, it didn't really have much effect on his performance - he was excellent.

So...he's out of form and his knee is worse, but gee, if they delisted him at the end of this year then it'd be very disappointing. Give him another year after this, give him the pre-season to get really fit and see how he goes. Whats the worst that could happen honestly? He has a bad year. Big whoop. It's not like we're gonna get anywhere next year anyway. Best thing that could happen is he regains form and is the lance we've known him to be.

Nice to see some sanity. Along with Bluebear, you have brought some rationality to this thread. No-one could be more disappointed with what has happened to Lance this year, than what I am, but gee it was less than 12 months ago that he was accepting the John Nicholls Medal & was just shaded for AA selection by the king of chip kicks, Joel Bowden.

I agree that he should only be offered a one year contract after this year to see how his knee goes during the pre-season & the early part of next year. If his knee blows up again, we can put him on the long-term injury list & promote a rookie. Given the way the club has nursed Kouta over the last couple of years (boy did he struggle against decent competition on the weekend), it is only fair that Lance, as one of the club's favorite sons, also be given every chance to extend his career. Certainly with our dearth of experienced players we could ill afford to delist Lance at the same time as Kouta & perhaps Lappin are retiring. That will leave Stevens, Scotland, Fev & Houlihan as our most experienced players. Not a lot to hang your hats on there.

[audas]

There are a lot of posts on theses boards about team spirit, playing for the club, selfish actions etc,etc.

Yet when it comes down to the boot being ont he other foot i see people are only too willing to start saying "well thats footy now days", "its a business etc".

When it comes down to it yeah they get paid, but that dosent mean they cant have passion and dedication, streuth plenty people go the extra mile for their job when it isnt footy. So, if we expect the boys to be passionate about the club and make it mean more than just a pay cheque then this has to be reciprocated, and if that means carrying a bloke like lance for a season, and a bloke like kouta for a several, well so be it.

Lance is a great bloke to watch, the slower he gets, the more injured, the better to watch him thinking, using his smarts, etc. I want this bloke at the club when he is finished, has a bit of the Ratts about him upstairs.

[Dramoth]

It cuts both ways though.

I mean I am all for having Lance on the list in 2008 for security purposes and to show the kids the way, but I don't want him to stall the development of our kids in any way, ie: if the list is fit and healthy and the Kennedys and Aisakes and Hartletts are really coming along nicely, then I'd hate for Lance to keep one of them out of the side.

But that's just me, I want to fast-track this young side as quick as realistically possible.

I can see Lance playing a cameo role in 2008.

Definitely... Lance will be playing a cameo role as a player next year while stepping up to bat learning how to work as a part coach as one of the development coaches next year helping out to develop our up and coming kids.

Would be good if he can keep playing for the next couple of years, but if he cant, then development coach will do :D

[reg_lower91]

I think every Carlton supporter shares the opinion that it was a poor choice to make him captain and that he probably shouldnt be in the side. With this in mind what is the point of him being on the Carlton list and us paying him big money? My answer: There is no point. In my opinion we should trade Lance Whitnall but then i thought, who for? Plain and simple i don't think we would get anything for him. Does anyone have any potential trade options or other opinions?

get off his back! he is a great player and the smartest in the AFL going around. his weight is a problem, but there is no doubt that he will come back next season fitter than ever... give him a 1 year contract to scare him and to put him in line a bit, and if he doesn't maintain a good level of fitness, we will not renew. he's a good player and an even better captain, so lets stop the talk bout him being traded!

[Go_Blues!]

Rather than encourage me, this really concerns me. Why is it that when Lance's place at the club is threatened, he is able to go out and do something about his weight in a matter of weeks? Why does he need such motivation at 28 years of age? Does this mean he doesn't try and lose weight at any other time of his career? He seems to lack the discipline to sustain any fitness regime in order to prolong his career.

Assuming of course that his place at the club is threatend.....I would be amazed if the club saw it this way; he is the captain and our reigning B&F. He is also one of our few experienced forwards and, as anyone who goes to the footy can see, his onfield leadership is key to Carlton being competitive. Football is a team sport and Whitnall makes a big difference to this team. For as long as his knee holds up, his place on the Carlton list is, as it should be, assured.

Maybe, just maybe, the reason he has managed to do something about his fitness is because he has been able to give his knee some rest.

[Bluebear]

From the back page of The Age today
"Whitnall, who began the season at 100kg, but had blown out to 103 when he last played in rnd 12, is now down to 97 kg's, below any of his listed weights since the start of 1999."

Job 1 is done. Drop some weight.
He has been doing rowing, swimming and weights work, but little running.

Lets hope his knee holds up when he starts running (probably this week).
Great effort for Red to lose 6 kg's in 4 weeks, whilst not running.

Hope he gets back and shows us the form he had when he was last at the weight he is at now (circa 1999).:thumbsu:

[NWTYRX]

He did a fair amount of running at training today. Still looks a little proppy, but looks in much better shape

[Bluebear]

He did a fair amount of running at training today. Still looks a little proppy, but looks in much better shape
Cheers.

[NWTYRX]

Still probably 2 weeks away from playing

[pumped]

Jeez, for crying out loud, Lance won our best and fairest last year. He's having a bad year because of an injury, get off his back!

Yes, i do understand the fustration of many Carlton supporters, i myself have felt it with Lance this year, but we have to remember what form he is capable of. Even though he does have a degenerative knee, it didn't effect him last year, and if it did, it didn't really have much effect on his performance - he was excellent.

So...he's out of form and his knee is worse, but gee, if they delisted him at the end of this year then it'd be very disappointing. Give him another year after this, give him the pre-season to get really fit and see how he goes. Whats the worst that could happen honestly? He has a bad year. Big whoop. It's not like we're gonna get anywhere next year anyway. Best thing that could happen is he regains form and is the lance we've known him to be.

Great Post Blue Dimension,

Haven't read all of the others but hope your's changes the tone of some of the imo harsh and off the mark ones.

[Blue Dimension]

From the back page of The Age today
"Whitnall, who began the season at 100kg, but had blown out to 103 when he last played in rnd 12, is now down to 97 kg's, below any of his listed weights since the start of 1999."

Job 1 is done. Drop some weight.
He has been doing rowing, swimming and weights work, but little running.

Lets hope his knee holds up when he starts running (probably this week).
Great effort for Red to lose 6 kg's in 4 weeks, whilst not running.

Hope he gets back and shows us the form he had when he was last at the weight he is at now (circa 1999).:thumbsu:

Very good effort. I guess he has the motivation now because he's in a position where he HAS to lose the weight or he'll struggle with his knee. It's hard with Lance though, hopefully he doesn't end up putting it back on but unfortunately he always does.