View Full Version : Trading Picks 1 and 3
blueskies
18 Jul 2007, 14:14
Now I am not suggesting we do this by any means, but I thought it'd be interesting to throw it out there.
Would you trade Picks 1 and 3 for Bartel and McIntosh? (doesn't have to be these two, could be any youngish gun mid or ruck).
Point is, can we afford another lowly year in 2008?
I think if we use our early picks this year on young draftees, they are hardly going to help us rise up the ladder quickly in 2008 (unless a Cotchin plays like Murphy did in 2006 and Kruezer has a sudden impact in the ruck). But if we had 2 gun experienced players, specifically a tough midfielder and a ruck, then these two players could help us improve in the short-term (how far up the ladder they would help us rise in 2008 I don't know, but you get my drift).
Even with a new coach with a tighter game plan, I still can't see us making huge advances up the ladder in 2008 (although I can see the smashings being reduced). I think the quantum leap ladder-wise won't transpire until 2009 onwards. Our kids our just still so raw.
How is this for a 2008 side...
B Anderson, Setanta, Houlihan
HB Gibbs, Thornton, Scotland
C Simpson, Stevens, Walker
R McIntosh, Bartel, Murphy
HF Koutoufides, Waite, Carrazzo
F Betts, Fevola, Fisher
INT from Aisake, Whitnall, Cloke, Bentick, Kennedy
Can't trade a priority pick (assuming you mean pick 1 is the pp if we don't win another game).
blueskies
18 Jul 2007, 14:29
I have heard that rumour before but I don't think it's true.
Can anyone prove this?
I'm sure Freo would have managed to somehow trade a priority pick in their tragic history to date. :)
blueskies
18 Jul 2007, 14:30
Imagine if we somehow made the Eight, and in the last quarter the game was tied with 5mins to go, and we send McIntosh, Kouta, Stevens and Bartel to contest the all-important centre square ball-up.
Bluebear
18 Jul 2007, 14:33
Now I am not suggesting we do this by any means, but I thought it'd be interesting to throw it out there.
Would you trade Picks 1 and 3 for Bartel and McIntosh? (doesn't have to be these two, could be any youngish gun mid or ruck).
Point is, can we afford another lowly year in 2008?
I think if we use our early picks this year on young draftees, they are hardly going to help us rise up the ladder quickly in 2008 (unless a Cotchin plays like Murphy did in 2006 and Kruezer has a sudden impact in the ruck). But if we had 2 gun experienced players, specifically a tough midfielder and a ruck, then these two players could help us improve in the short-term (how far up the ladder they would help us rise in 2008 I don't know, but you get my drift).
Even with a new coach with a tighter game plan, I still can't see us making huge advances up the ladder in 2008 (although I can see the smashings being reduced). I think the quantum leap ladder-wise won't transpire until 2009 onwards. Our kids our just still so raw.
How is this for a 2008 side...
B Anderson, Setanta, Houlihan
HB Gibbs, Thornton, Scotland
C Simpson, Stevens, Walker
R McIntosh, Bartel, Murphy
HF Koutoufides, Waite, Carrazzo
F Betts, Fevola, Fisher
INT from Aisake, Whitnall, Cloke, Bentick, Kennedy
Don't let JTG see you say this.:D
Jokes aside, we have hopefully learned our lesson from trading away picks.
Patience is the key here.
Add Kreuzer and one of Cotchin/Palmer/Matsen/Grimes won't suddenly change our fortunes.
But then add Stevens, Murphy another year on, Gibbs with a full pre-season, plus a young gun, and we have a good emerging young midfield feeding the leagues second best forward line..........things can happen very quickly.
All we need then is some luck with injuries (we still have zero depth) with our ruck, allowing Cloke and ? Kreuzer/Aisake/Jacobs to release O'hAiplin, and things start to look very different.
You'd need to trade more for Bartel anyway.
Stick with building our own, enjoy the development, and wait for the fun of that "breakout" year......its coming.
Bluebear
18 Jul 2007, 14:34
I have heard that rumour before but I don't think it's true.
Can anyone prove this?
I'm sure Freo would have managed to somehow trade a priority pick in their tragic history to date. :)
Yep, pretty sure you can't trade a PP.
Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite
18 Jul 2007, 14:45
I definately support the idea of trading away our first pick this year. We have plenty of young kids who are developing atm. considering the draft isn't very strong this year i wouldn't mind trading away our first pick for an accomplished defender in their late 20's. Said it before, i would love Sam Fisher at this club. Some people don't seem to realise the importance of experienced players helping with the development of our young blokes. A winning culture would do wonders for our kids confidence and development, we need to start being respectable at least next year
blueskies
18 Jul 2007, 14:45
So does that mean we couldn't trade pick 17 last year? That's a priority pick too.
Teagueeee15
18 Jul 2007, 14:46
I have heard that rumour before but I don't think it's true.
Can anyone prove this?
I'm sure Freo would have managed to somehow trade a priority pick in their tragic history to date. :)
Fremantle traded their priority pick in 2001 for Trent Croad and Luke Mcpharlin.
blueskies
18 Jul 2007, 14:54
He's right.
Dockers finished last and the Hawks finished about 6th or 7th in 2001, and yet the Hawks got the priority pick while the Dockers had Pick 4. There were 3 priority picks that year. It's all at Wikipedia.
So you can trade priority picks.
The Grover
18 Jul 2007, 14:57
I definately support the idea of trading away our first pick this year. We have plenty of young kids who are developing atm. considering the draft isn't very strong this year i wouldn't mind trading away our first pick for an accomplished defender in their late 20's. Said it before, i would love Sam Fisher at this club. Some people don't seem to realise the importance of experienced players helping with the development of our young blokes. A winning culture would do wonders for our kids confidence and development, we need to start being respectable at least next year
I would consider trading our pick 3 or 4 for a player such as Sam Fisher or Chaplin from Port.
Sticks 4
18 Jul 2007, 15:05
He's right.
Dockers finished last and the Hawks finished about 6th or 7th in 2001, and yet the Hawks got the priority pick while the Dockers had Pick 4. There were 3 priority picks that year. It's all at Wikipedia.
So you can trade priority picks.
I think you could trade pp's but the rule has changed IIRC. I'm pretty sure you can't do it anymore
He's right.
Dockers finished last and the Hawks finished about 6th or 7th in 2001, and yet the Hawks got the priority pick while the Dockers had Pick 4. There were 3 priority picks that year. It's all at Wikipedia.
So you can trade priority picks.
I believe because of that farce they changed the rules, a priority pick should only be used by the club that earnt it.
You cant trade priority picks Fremantle did it in 2001 and after that they changed it so they cant be traded
I'd certainly consider trading our 1st round pick to get some elite talent into the club, with senior experience. We have enough kids, and if we end up gaining a PP, then there is one more quality kid into the club as well.
The Old Dark Navy's
18 Jul 2007, 16:00
Pretty sure you can still trade a priority pick but the AFL have to agree with it or some clause like that. Maybe it is to save the terminally stupid from themselves .... although having the AFL perform that role smacks of hypocrisy.
this is a joke right?
The number 1 pick will be that young ruckman who is going to be a gun, and you guys suggest we trade it?
get real seriously... we need this guy we can trade our lower picks but not the 1-3 if we get them and I hope to god we do
blueskies
18 Jul 2007, 18:28
Pretty sure you can still trade a priority pick but the AFL have to agree with it or some clause like that. Maybe it is to save the terminally stupid from themselves .... although having the AFL perform that role smacks of hypocrisy.
Henceforth we shall call it the Freo Rule.
[ToTTi]
18 Jul 2007, 18:31
Hmm.
I agree with HBF that I'd be inclined to trade away one of our top picks for elite talent, but elite talent on the younger side, preferably under 24-25. Definitely wouldn't trade away both though.
FieryNayta
18 Jul 2007, 18:38
this is a joke right?
The number 1 pick will be that young ruckman who is going to be a gun, and you guys suggest we trade it?
get real seriously... we need this guy we can trade our lower picks but not the 1-3 if we get them and I hope to god we do
Totally agree.
Yes, the club has a fair bit of young talent.
BUT, alot of our "young guns" are untried or havn't shown very much at the top level yet. We can't trade off top draft picks assuming that all of these players from the last 2 drafts are going to make it.
Not to mention the fact that the number one draft pick is going to be Kruezer who is a ruckman....we dont have a ruckman! It couldn't be more perfect.
Let's be patient, i think this year has shown that we are still years away from making the finals. But all we can do in the meantime is try to develope what we already have, and be clever about how we play the drafting system.
FieryNayta
18 Jul 2007, 18:41
;8151619']Hmm.
I agree with HBF that I'd be inclined to trade away one of our top picks for elite talent, but elite talent on the younger side, preferably under 24-25. Definitely wouldn't trade away both though.
We wont get "elite talent" for a straight draft pick swap.
I read someone said that we should swap these picks for Bartel and McIntosh. Honestly, that would never happen!
McIntosh is the future of the Kangaroos and an absolute gun, and Bartel is a brownlow medal favourite. Neither club would be stupid enough to take a punt on a draft pick and lose proven talented performers.
[ToTTi]
18 Jul 2007, 18:48
We wont get "elite talent" for a straight draft pick swap.
I read someone said that we should swap these picks for Bartel and McIntosh. Honestly, that would never happen!
McIntosh is the future of the Kangaroos and an absolute gun, and Bartel is a brownlow medal favourite. Neither club would be stupid enough to take a punt on a draft pick and lose proven talented performers.
I realise that, it was all a very hypothetical exercise I think.
And your last point is the exact reason we shouldn't trade away FEV!!!
FieryNayta
18 Jul 2007, 19:00
;8151794']I realise that, it was all a very hypothetical exercise I think.
And your last point is the exact reason we shouldn't trade away FEV!!!
Yeah, i agree that we shouldn't trade Fev for draft picks alone.
I think most supporters would only be happy with an established player plus draft selections if we were to trade him.
He's very valuable on the market, and i'll be really annoyed if carlton get boned in a trade.
wizardcupfinalblues
18 Jul 2007, 19:03
Pick 3, our 2nd round pick and Fevola for Judd?
Pick 3, our 2nd round pick and Fevola for Judd?
i don't think so :thumbsu:
[ToTTi]
18 Jul 2007, 19:31
Pick 3, our 2nd round pick and Fevola for Judd?
Pfft, go on the Kangaroos' board and they'd probably tell you Hale + 5th rounder and a Gold Coast apartment will do the job!
Pick 3, our 2nd round pick and Fevola for Judd?
imagine that happened. And what if Judd does his knee, we lose pick 3, second rounder and the best FF going around. Far too much to lose for the development of our club to do that
AndyWalkersGirl
18 Jul 2007, 19:39
I'd certainly consider trading our 1st round pick to get some elite talent into the club, with senior experience. We have enough kids, and if we end up gaining a PP, then there is one more quality kid into the club as well.
Yeah i agree. I'd happily swap pick 1 for a top player.
AndyWalkersGirl
18 Jul 2007, 19:41
For example, some possibles that come into my mind>
Fevola and Pick 1 for Judd.
Fevola and Pick 1 for Judd.
Fevola and Pick 1 for Judd.
Oh, and maybe Fevola and Pick 1 for Pavlich. Rubbish that he wants to go home. Melbourne is closer to Adelaide than Perth anyway. He's a grown boy, not a 12 year old.
I'd prefer Pavlich over Judd. Judd's groin worries me.
BUT, alot of our "young guns" are untried or havn't shown very much at the top level yet. We can't trade off top draft picks assuming that all of these players from the last 2 drafts are going to make it.
Simpson, Murphy, Walker and Gibbs have all shown something at AFL level. Kennedy and Bower have torn it up and VFL level, and despite what some posters on here are saying, both look like they will become AFL regulars. And furthermore, Austin, Edwards and Grigg have looked good for consistent parts of the season also.
Not to mention the fact that the number one draft pick is going to be Kruezer who is a ruckman....we dont have a ruckman! It couldn't be more perfect.
I'd hope we pick up Kruezer with our PP, should we gain that selection this year. Having said that, I would hope the club doesn't trade away that selection.
Now I am not suggesting we do this by any means, but I thought it'd be interesting to throw it out there.
Would you trade Picks 1 and 3 for Bartel and McIntosh? (doesn't have to be these two, could be any youngish gun mid or ruck).
Point is, can we afford another lowly year in 2008?
I think if we use our early picks this year on young draftees, they are hardly going to help us rise up the ladder quickly in 2008 (unless a Cotchin plays like Murphy did in 2006 and Kruezer has a sudden impact in the ruck). But if we had 2 gun experienced players, specifically a tough midfielder and a ruck, then these two players could help us improve in the short-term (how far up the ladder they would help us rise in 2008 I don't know, but you get my drift).
Even with a new coach with a tighter game plan, I still can't see us making huge advances up the ladder in 2008 (although I can see the smashings being reduced). I think the quantum leap ladder-wise won't transpire until 2009 onwards. Our kids our just still so raw.
How is this for a 2008 side...
B Anderson, Setanta, Houlihan
HB Gibbs, Thornton, Scotland
C Simpson, Stevens, Walker
R McIntosh, Bartel, Murphy
HF Koutoufides, Waite, Carrazzo
F Betts, Fevola, Fisher
INT from Aisake, Whitnall, Cloke, Bentick, Kennedy
:eek::eek::eek:
TheGeneral
18 Jul 2007, 21:23
;8152222']Pfft, go on the Kangaroos' board and they'd probably tell you Hale + 5th rounder and a Gold Coast apartment will do the job!
The saddest thing about the Kangaroos' board isn't their fans thinking they've got a list of great kids and a they're a young team on the rise. It's that the fact their board keeps going due to five people posting over and over again using alter egos because no one follows their boutique club. The fact their membership has dropped by 10% when they're in the eight says alot about their future and the attitude of their supporter base.
When their clubs needs them the most and is winning they're nowhere to be seen.
They obviously take it for granted that clubs the AFL will bail them out and the attendances of clubs like Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon at the home games they've sold will make them money. No one would bother buying shares in that club if they begged for money again.
[ToTTi]
18 Jul 2007, 21:30
The saddest thing about the Kangaroos' board isn't their fans thinking they've got a list of great kids and a they're a young team on the rise. It's that the fact their board keeps going due to five people posting over and over again using alter egos because no one follows their boutique club. The fact their membership has dropped by 10% when they're in the eight says alot about their future and the passion of their supporters.
Weak.
LOL. :D
Can't really dispute any of that!
For example, some possibles that come into my mind>
Fevola and Pick 1 for Judd.
Fevola and Pick 1 for Judd.
Fevola and Pick 1 for Judd.
Oh, and maybe Fevola and Pick 1 for Pavlich. Rubbish that he wants to go home. Melbourne is closer to Adelaide than Perth anyway. He's a grown boy, not a 12 year old.
I'd prefer Pavlich over Judd. Judd's groin worries me.
We'd be crazy to give up Fevola plus the best rated youngster in the country for one player - even a superstar.
That would be like Dogs in '04 giving up Brad Johnson plus pick 1 (Cooney) for Adam Goodes.
I don't care who they are, no-one's worth two superstars - unless we're convinced we'll stuff up the first pick. Makes no sense.
Blue Dimension
18 Jul 2007, 22:46
Agreed. Won't happen. What if Judd gets injured? we're screwed.
However, Fev and a second round pick for judd could be interesting, however i don't think that'd be enough for West Coasts liking.
We need our first two first round draft picks to pick up the best talent (if we do end up getting them)
In the end though, Judd is out of contract, and if he does want to come back to Vic, then theyll have to trade him, or he'll be given away for nothing in the Pre-Season draft (a la Nick Stevens). West Coast wouldn't be that stupid of course
If it does turn out that Judd wants to move back to Vic, and definately wants to leave the eagles, then basically the best offer gets him.
blues4flag
19 Jul 2007, 00:13
For example, some possibles that come into my mind>
Fevola and Pick 1 for Judd.
Fevola and Pick 1 for Judd.
Fevola and Pick 1 for Judd.
Oh, and maybe Fevola and Pick 1 for Pavlich. Rubbish that he wants to go home. Melbourne is closer to Adelaide than Perth anyway. He's a grown boy, not a 12 year old.
I'd prefer Pavlich over Judd. Judd's groin worries me.
No, no, no, no, no. That'd be giving up the best young ruckman in the country, and an absolute gun full forward (despite his mental deficiencies). Gun midfielders are much more common, and NO player in the comp is worth arguably the best FF + the best young ruckman in the country. Not even close.
Of course, that's if we get the PP - which after our win this week won't happen. :)
I don't care who they are, no-one's worth two superstars - unless we're convinced we'll stuff up the first pick. Makes no sense.
Since when was the #1 pick a superstar?
Dramoth
19 Jul 2007, 07:53
Yeah, i agree that we shouldn't trade Fev for draft picks alone.
I think most supporters would only be happy with an established player plus draft selections if we were to trade him.
He's very valuable on the market, and i'll be really annoyed if carlton get boned in a trade.
I would be organising a big id10t hunt for the person who allowed the club to get boned over a trade for Fev if he does get traded...
But to be honest, if we dont get an established big bodied player plus draft picks for Fev it'll definitely be a boning for the club. And someone should lose their job over it.
Since when was the #1 pick a superstar?
Riewoldt is, Cooney's nearly, Gibbs will be, plus Judd and Franklin both could've/should've gone #1.
The next greats of the game are there for the taking at no trade cost.
Peter Dyson
19 Jul 2007, 11:16
Agreed. Won't happen. What if Judd gets injured? we're screwed.
However, Fev and a second round pick for judd could be interesting, however i don't think that'd be enough for West Coasts liking.
We need our first two first round draft picks to pick up the best talent (if we do end up getting them)
In the end though, Judd is out of contract, and if he does want to come back to Vic, then theyll have to trade him, or he'll be given away for nothing in the Pre-Season draft (a la Nick Stevens). West Coast wouldn't be that stupid of course
If it does turn out that Judd wants to move back to Vic, and definately wants to leave the eagles, then basically the best offer gets him.
Whoa hold on. "What if" Fev gets injured? Decisions can't be made on "what if's". Has anyone taken a look at the Egales record with and without Judd playing. Sure - he's playing injured at the moment but when fit he makes a huge difference to an eagles outfit that includes players like Kerr, Cousins, Braun, Fletcher, Embley and so on.... The impact he would have at a struggling club like Carlton would be MASSIVE and without the baggage. Imagine the marketing possibilities if nothing else. Now i'm a huge Fev fan - I love the guy and want him to stay but i'd take Judd every single day of the week. Sure - midfielders are easier to find than gun forwards but Judd ain't no ordinary midfielder. It's not going to happen anyway so....
Minotaur
19 Jul 2007, 11:48
Riewoldt is, Cooney's nearly, Gibbs will be, plus Judd and Franklin both could've/should've gone #1.
The next greats of the game are there for the taking at no trade cost.
That is the key. Pick 1 is not necessarily worth more than any pick in the top 5 oe even 10.
That is the key. Pick 1 is not necessarily worth more than any pick in the top 5 oe even 10.
True but we still wouldn't give up Fevola and pick 1 for one player in Judd. We'd want thrown in either a second good young player or a slightly later pick like #7 or #8.
But we haven't got pick 1 yet and Judd probably won't leave anyway..
Fevola to swans in exchange for pick say 8 to 16 and Jarrod Mcveigh.
how about NO mj123....
and NO
NO
No
Draft isn't that good this year, we got more then enough picks, get real!
Now I am not suggesting we do this by any means, but I thought it'd be interesting to throw it out there.
Would you trade Picks 1 and 3 for Bartel and McIntosh? (doesn't have to be these two, could be any youngish gun mid or ruck).
Point is, can we afford another lowly year in 2008?
I think if we use our early picks this year on young draftees, they are hardly going to help us rise up the ladder quickly in 2008 (unless a Cotchin plays like Murphy did in 2006 and Kruezer has a sudden impact in the ruck). But if we had 2 gun experienced players, specifically a tough midfielder and a ruck, then these two players could help us improve in the short-term (how far up the ladder they would help us rise in 2008 I don't know, but you get my drift).
i reckon theyd be good trades but the only problem is that youd probably want to stay down there at the bottom for a few more years if u want to win premierships. because if you got mcntosh and bartel you would get to about 10th or so for a couple years then go back down to the bottom without ever achieving success.
If Carlton had picks 1 and 3, I'd try and trade 3 for Shannon Hurn. If you're going to do it, I think you've got to get a kid around that age who's shown more than potential.
Having said that, I would kill a man to get Tom Collier... the absolute best mobile tall junior I've ever seen... ever.
EVER. :thumbsu:
If Carlton had picks 1 and 3, I'd try and trade 3 for Shannon Hurn. If you're going to do it, I think you've got to get a kid around that age who's shown more than potential.
Having said that, I would kill a man to get Tom Collier... the absolute best mobile tall junior I've ever seen... ever.
EVER. :thumbsu:
I wouldn't hold your breath on Collier, despite his talent.
Having said that, I suspect he'll go late in the 1st round, thus making him unavailable to us with our second round pick.