View Full Version : ENGLAND v INDIA, 1st Test, Lords, 19-23 July 2007
usalion
19 Jul 2007, 00:33
Looks like England may have a really untried attack- Hamisson is out and Hoggard is having a check today. Looks like Stuart Broad will get his debut, and word is that Chris Tremlett may be called into the squad.
Russian
19 Jul 2007, 00:58
Looks like England may have a really untried attack- Hamisson is out and Hoggard is having a check today. Looks like Stuart Broad will get his debut, and word is that Chris Tremlett may be called into the squad.Tremlett's been in the squad (with no chance of playing) since Harmi was injured. Now Hoggard's injured, he'll still be at Chester-le-Street on Friday
Tremlett's been in the squad (with no chance of playing) since Harmi was injured. Now Hoggard's injured, he'll still be at Chester-le-Street on Friday
Well it's about 80% that he will be playing for Hants, i don't mind either way
What is it with England's pacemen?
Monkeyboy
19 Jul 2007, 17:49
Will be interesting to see if the South African is rested and will make some runs again, or fail and blame it on the busy scheduling.
davey_magik
19 Jul 2007, 19:02
Hoggard is out with back spasms, Tremlett and Anderson in.
Broad is a bit stiff I feel, he's shown more than Tremlett.
Hoggard is out with back spasms, Tremlett and Anderson in.
Broad is a bit stiff I feel, he's shown more than Tremlett.
He's only 20 though, the ECB must have thought he had something about him as we was considered the 5th best seamer behind 'The Big 4' during the '05 Ashes, he was 12th man for four of them
Anderson being given another crack in the test team. Either keep him there or don't play him.
Let me guess, Foxtel's coverage this evening will be delayed and not joining in progress?
Grimwood
19 Jul 2007, 20:01
Tremlett and Anderson are really the most experienced young bowlers England have in terms of total cricket played. Tremlett has been held back by injury but he's still managed to cram in more cricket than the likes of Sajid Mahmood and Stuart Broad.
However I'm just gonna cross my fingers and hope he actually is fit as we saw how much a half fit Chris Tremlett can struggle when he played in the CB series. He was bowling at 90mph the last time I saw him on t'telly though so I guess for once he may not be carrying an injury...
usalion
19 Jul 2007, 20:04
England won the toss and are batting
England 0/51 after 8 overs. Bowling is very wayward.
Grimwood
19 Jul 2007, 21:09
Cook out.
I thought it was a pretty poor decision but Bumble apparently disagrees. Hawk-eye says it was missing...
eddiesmith
19 Jul 2007, 22:43
Anderson being given another crack in the test team. Either keep him there or don't play him.
Let me guess, Foxtel's coverage this evening will be delayed and not joining in progress?
Yep, the English super league replays are much more important
Yep, the English super league replays are much more important
Haha - and then the ****ers decide to show the pre-match of a three hour delayed telecast. How ****ing stupid can one be?
eddiesmith
19 Jul 2007, 23:37
Well just the teams, suprising as I expected the whole pre match like the ODI :p
My North
19 Jul 2007, 23:38
Foxtel have just started showing the test match from 11.30. 2 balls have been bowled.
Grimwood
20 Jul 2007, 00:21
179/1
Not gripping cricket to be honest. The likes of Strauss and Vaughan can really only force the pace if they're in good touch and I'd say they aren't at the moment. Strauss especially needs a hundred.
Still.. I guess it's a good start.
This is a joke. India needs to find a bowler who can bowl faster than 60km/h.
So who can explain the logic of England's selectors, actually it probably came down to the coach/captain.
Stuart Broad is pencilled in to play, Tremlett is added to the squad after him when Harmy is definitely out.
Then Hoggy goes down & so Anderson comes in as a like for like swing bowling replacement & this change means that Tremlett suddenly leapfrogs Broad.I agreed with Boycs for once it makes no sense.Presumably they felt the attack would be too inexperienced & that's why they chose Tremlett over Broad.
England lions game they both bowled well but Broad outbowled Tremlett as well as hitting 50.Surely the one thing that was important from that game for England was as an eliminator between those 2 for the spare bowling place.
A wet outfield and precipitation (expected for much of the day) will delay the start of play.
India's attack is pedestrian.
So who can explain the logic of England's selectors, actually it probably came down to the coach/captain.
Stuart Broad is pencilled in to play, Tremlett is added to the squad after him when Harmy is definitely out.
Then Hoggy goes down & so Anderson comes in as a like for like swing bowling replacement & this change means that Tremlett suddenly leapfrogs Broad.I agreed with Boycs for once it makes no sense.Presumably they felt the attack would be too inexperienced & that's why they chose Tremlett over Broad.
England lions game they both bowled well but Broad outbowled Tremlett as well as hitting 50.Surely the one thing that was important from that game for England was as an eliminator between those 2 for the spare bowling place.
Shastri on the sky said that although Broad got the wickets Tremlett also caused a lot of problems at Chelmsford and presumably they thought Broad was too much like Anderson so decided to go with Tremlett for the extra bounce and pace
Chance of play today is remote and tomorrow's forecast is also gloomy.
Shastri on the sky said that although Broad got the wickets Tremlett also caused a lot of problems at Chelmsford and presumably they thought Broad was too much like Anderson so decided to go with Tremlett for the extra bounce and pace
What!
Broad is 6 ' 6" only one inch less than Tremlett & just a touch below in pace, I'd have thought that Broad was seen as a tall bang it in bowler in the mould of Harmy.
Although he can swing it too.
The thing is before Hoggard went down he was in, the Times seemed to have the inside track & it seemed pretty clear that he was set to play then Anderson comes in for Hoggy & Tremlett leapfrogs him.
It's odd.
For me Broad & Tremlett are pretty similar, wouldn't compare Broad with Anderson really.
Plus we've got a huge tail now, Broad straight off a 50 against the Indians would have got us batting down to 8.
Anyway this game will never produce a result, christ! that was a massive bolt of lightning right there:eek: so it'll be interesting to see how Tremlett goes.I like the look of him but there were question marks over his toughness & hunger.
In 2005 he started that season well thn when he had a chance to make the 5th Test his form collapsed, almost like he was too scared to put his hand up & come to one of Duncan Fletcher's parties.
What!
Broad is 6 ' 6" only one inch less than Tremlett & just a touch below in pace, I'd have thought that Broad was seen as a tall bang it in bowler in the mould of Harmy.
Although he can swing it too.
The thing is before Hoggard went down he was in, the Times seemed to have the inside track & it seemed pretty clear that he was set to play then Anderson comes in for Hoggy & Tremlett leapfrogs him.
It's odd.
For me Broad & Tremlett are pretty similar, wouldn't compare Broad with Anderson really.
Plus we've got a huge tail now, Broad straight off a 50 against the Indians would have got us batting down to 8.
Anyway this game will never produce a result, christ! that was a massive bolt of lightning right there:eek: so it'll be interesting to see how Tremlett goes.I like the look of him but there were question marks over his toughness & hunger.
In 2005 he started that season well thn when he had a chance to make the 5th Test his form collapsed, almost like he was too scared to put his hand up & come to one of Duncan Fletcher's parties.
He's not a hit the deck bowler, more skiddy at 82 mph like Anderson... Warne will have done wonders for his toughness i'd say, give him a jolt and give him some confidence so he's ready
Grimwood
20 Jul 2007, 21:35
He's not a hit the deck bowler, more skiddy at 82 mph like Anderson... Warne will have done wonders for his toughness i'd say, give him a jolt and give him some confidence so he's ready
Broad is not skiddy. He usually bowls a fuller length than the likes of Harmison but he's not a skiddy swing bowler.
Anyway, La Niņa seems to have continued her trend of washing out cricket matches around the country this summer, so I guess we won't get a chance to see anyone in action today.
Broad is not skiddy. He usually bowls a fuller length than the likes of Harmison but he's not a skiddy swing bowler.
Anyway, La Niņa seems to have continued her trend of washing out cricket matches around the country this summer, so I guess we won't get a chance to see anyone in action today.
Ok, but he's a pitch it up bowler, not a back of a length bowler... Not saying Broad isn't a talent but he's very Anderson-like and without Hoggy maybe they thought they need something different
He's not a hit the deck bowler, more skiddy at 82 mph like Anderson...
Yeah but skiddy isn't about pace is it, McGrath isn't a skiddy bowler.
Broad can bowl a fuller length & get a bit of swing but he's tall enough to pull it back & bowl back of a length.
I'm sure he can get it going through at more than 82mph if he puts a bit of effort in, maybe not 90 but 85/86.
What can Tremlett get up to?
I think if Broad gets the right coaching & Donald is already looking impressive in terms of turning Harmy round, then I can see him being a 2 in 1 bowler.If it's swinging or indeed nipping off the pitch then he can bowl a fuller lenght but if it's flat then he can bring it back & keep it tight & still be a threat due to his height in a way that Hoggy can't.
I still have little faith in Sidebottom on flat pitches with no swing available.
I hope Tremlett does stand up & show something.
I like giant fast bowlers, a battery of Tremlett, Broad, Harmison & Flintoff is a really good base.
Yeah but skiddy isn't about pace is it, McGrath isn't a skiddy bowler.
Broad can bowl a fuller length & get a bit of swing but he's tall enough to pull it back & bowl back of a length.
I'm sure he can get it going through at more than 82mph if he puts a bit of effort in, maybe not 90 but 85/86.
What can Tremlett get up to?
Broad has been operating at around 80-82 due to injury, Tremlett's been up in the late 80's this season off a shortened run up
Sun is out, play soon, not bad considering Lord's was under water an hour ago
Sun is out, play soon, not bad considering Lord's was under water an hour ago
Their drainage is unbelievable.
Are you listening to Test match special if not bung it on & listen to 'Aussie' Graham Thorpe.
His accent is just outrageous, he spends 6 months in Australia & this is the result.
'Geez, look Thorpey, pull your bloody head in mate & start speaking pommy again.'
Are you listening to Test match special if not bung it on & listen to 'Aussie' Graham Thorpe.
His accent is just outrageous, he spends 6 months in Australia & this is the result.
'Geez, look Thorpey, pull your bloody head in mate & start speaking pommy again.'
:D I heard him on The Sky highlights, must have got too much sun over the winter in NSW
The Indians just tried to cheat KP out. Dhoni surely has to be suspended for that. What a pack of cheats they are! And what an ordinary piece of umpiring for Taufel.
You are ****ing stupid Fox Sports. Instead of using common ****ing sense, we get a four hour ****ing delay of a ****ing rain delay!
Stupid. How ****ing stupid can one station be?
You are ****ing stupid Fox Sports. Instead of using common ****ing sense, we get a four hour ****ing delay of a ****ing rain delay!
Stupid. How ****ing stupid can one station be?
As stupid as England's batting? :(:rolleyes:
England staged a super collapse today - all out 298. The swing and seam was too much for their batsmen.
tasyazdani
21 Jul 2007, 00:39
**** Fox Sports are a bunch of morons, I really dont give a **** about Javagal Srinath chucking pies at that spastic Atherton, I want to see some live cricket you ****wits!
This is the most brain dead thing i have ever seen a station do...
Cannot believe they are showing old highlights when play is actually going on...
This is the most brain dead thing i have ever seen a station do...
Cannot believe they are showing old highlights when play is actually going on...
England V India 1996? Maybe it was a feed from Sky they couldn't change
happy_eagle
21 Jul 2007, 01:37
india 2/37
england 298
hehe immagine if ryan sidebottoms name was ryan sideboob
England V India 1996? Maybe it was a feed from Sky they couldn't change
Of course they could. They broadcast an entire four hour rain delay after having cut the pre-match last night. They were incredibly stupid to think anyone wants to watch a delayed telecast of a test match late at night - and even more daft to broadcast the ****ing rain delay.
Grimwood
21 Jul 2007, 05:08
England 298
India 145/4
England's batting was awful but at least our bowlers are keeping things tight.
Good days cricket after the rain, great work from Trems, if it goes even more up and down later in the game he could be even more dangerous, it's Trent Bridge next isn't it? Tremlett's had some good games there
Gotta feel for Hoggy he'd have been rampant on a day like this.
Grimwood
21 Jul 2007, 07:36
http://www.cricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/77700/77773.gif
Gives you an idea of how big Tremlett is.. Vaughan's a good couple of inches over six foot.
http://www.cricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/77700/77773.gif
Gives you an idea of how big Tremlett is.. Vaughan's a good couple of inches over six foot.
I'm short so he's gigantic to me when he comes to field on the Boundary for Hants... Think how Sachin must feel when he's at the NS end. :eek:
Who are the fathers & sons who've played for England?
It's either 11 or Broad would have been the 11th, who would have won a game.
I can think of
Jeff & Simon Jones.
Arnie & ryan Sidebottom.
Colin & Chris Cowdrey.
Len & Richard Hutton.
Mickey & Alec Stewart.
Tremlett's grandad played for England apparently.I remember his old man, saw him at Ilford once along with Marshall, Greenidge & Border.And that twat Mark Nicholas.
Who are the fathers & sons who've played for England?
It's either 11 or Broad would have been the 11th, who would have won a game.
I can think of
Jeff & Simon Jones.
Arnie & ryan Sidebottom.
Colin & Chris Cowdrey.
Len & Richard Hutton.
Mickey & Alec Stewart.
Tremlett's grandad played for England apparently.I remember his old man, saw him at Ilford once along with Marshall, Greenidge & Border.And that twat Mark Nicholas.
Tim is Hant's Director of Cricket now... Great man, Maurice played for England a long time ago...
The 2 Jim Parks (Bobby of course was one of Hampshire's best wicketkeeers)... The current Captain Coach combination at The Oval, Mark and Alan Butcher, Frank 'one test not so wonder' and Maurice Tate
Tim is Hant's Director of Cricket now... Great man, Maurice played for England a long time ago...
The 2 Jim Parks (Bobby of course was one of Hampshire's best wicketkeeers)... The current Captain Coach combination at The Oval, Mark and Alan Butcher, Frank 'one test not so wonder' and Maurice Tate
Did Alan Butcher play for England?I thought of those 2, was he just a one or two Tests man or did he play a few?
Oh I've found his team.
Gooch
Hobbs
Hammond
Gower
Compton
Botham
Flintoff
Knott
Trueman
Underwood
Willis
Well first thing to say is Gooch was my boyhood hero but ahead of Hutton....no chance.
Hutton was a master, before his wartime injuries he was a great technician with an array of shots, broke Bradman's Test record score when he was 22.After the war with one arm shorter than the other he relied more on his great technique & wasn't quite so dashing but still a great.Gooch didn't find his true level until his 30s when he was awesome but he had nearly 10 years of averaging under 40 in Tests.
Gower is a joke to make the team, could you imagine McGrath bowling to him, tuck him up, tuck him up then let him have one a bit wide just short of a length, Gower plays his waft & there's a catch at 4th slip or gulley.
There's no graft in that middle order.
As for the rest he's gone for the best gloveman, can't argue with that.
Underwood over Laker, mmm I guess with Underwood's pace he's a great spin bowler to have when there's not much turn.
Bob Willis, really when you compare him with the greats of his own era like Lillee, Garner, Holding, Marshall he's a step below so how can he hold his own in an alltime team?
My team is better, no doubts.:)
Relevant Warne column from The Times
Tremlett gets up to speed thanks to short cut and a long chat
Shane Warne
As a county captain, I get enormous pleasure from hearing that a Hampshire player has been picked for England. So when Chris Tremlett rang on Wednesday night to say that he would be making his Test debut, there was elation at both ends of the line. It meant a lot that he chose to call, but I emphasised that his selection was first and foremost down to his hard work since the winter.
At the start of the season we had a long heart-to-heart. I felt that I needed to be stern with him, to get in his face and tell him where I thought he was letting himself down. I asked what he wanted to achieve and how he intended to achieve it. I also warned him that I would be on his case every hour of every game from April to September.
He is a lovely guy. We call him “Goober” at the Rose Bowl because he is tall and gawky and a bit all over everywhere. I think it comes from a character on American TV. He is your typical gentle giant, but deep down he has an aggressive streak and I wanted him to unleash some of that rage. Glenn McGrath is nice as well, but you wouldn’t know it from seeing him on the field.
I’ve suggested before that Chris could be a regular England bowler if he toughened up his body language. He disappointed everybody, including himself, in the one-day games in Australia last winter. I know that he felt upset and embarrassed by the criticism, but that experience and, perhaps, our chat have fired him up. It seems as though the penny has dropped.
He has also made a significant technical change. We went through his approach to bowling and how to set up batsmen and I suggested that he shorten his run-up. He practised in the nets and talked to Stuart Clark, our second overseas player. Then, late in May, we had an ideal opportunity to test it during a match against Warwickshire at Edgbaston that was going nowhere.
From the first ball, the change of pace was obvious. Nic Pothas and I looked at each other behind the wicket and immediately took a couple of steps back. Chris didn’t find his rhythm straight away – he bowled a few no-balls and Alex Loudon hit several fours – but we were clearly on to something. When I asked Clark what he thought, he said: “Why didn’t he do it two years ago?”
Since then – on slow pitches – Chris has been getting up to 92 and 93mph. Before that, he wasn’t making the most of his 6ft 7in height. He was collapsing in his delivery stride, which meant that his point of release was lower than it should have been. Now, because he is running in off about eight paces, his weight has to be forward so that he bowls over his front leg instead of falling away. The action is just more efficient.
I thought that Chris was a good pick against India. How long he stays in the team may depend on injuries, but if he gets a run through the series and bowls the way he has for Hampshire, he will bring the house down. If you ask county batsmen to name the best young fast bowlers in the championship, a lot will say Chris in the first division and Stuart Broad in the second division.
It must have been a close call between those two at Lord’s, but from Tim’s figures it looks like he has justified the selectors’ faith so far. I met Broad for the first time at a VW golf day last Monday and I was amazed at how tall he is (6ft 6in). We didn’t speak for long, but I know his old man really well and if Stuart is as strong-minded as Broad Sr, then he, too, will be around for a long time.
This is an exciting period for young pace bowlers in England. A few others have impressed me. Charlie Shreck at Nottinghamshire looks really, really good and with a fine captain in Stephen Fleming he will not be overbowled. Graham Onions, of Durham, is another promising bowler with a bit of an edge.
And I certainly wouldn’t give up on Liam Plunkett. He could be very good once he understands what he is meant to be doing. To me, he doesn’t seem sure whether he is supposed to be an out-and-out quick or a medium-fast swing bowler. Maybe he needs some guidance on that one, but he has the ability to reemerge when he is clear in his mind.
- People looked at me in a strange way when I first said that Muttiah Muralitharan would take 1,000 Test wickets. They must be coming round to my way of thinking. It is nice to have company in the 700 club and if Sri Lanka keep playing Bangladesh, he will get to four figures quicker than I thought.
Murali is a really bubbly guy. He has been wonderful for Sri Lankan cricket and one thing is indisputable: he creates massive difficulties for batsmen because of what he does with the ball.
Sri Lanka are due to tour Australia this winter and I know that our crowds are looking forward to seeing him again.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=349876&page=2
India 7 down, Great bowling from Jimbo although a poor shot from MSD
Sri Lanka are due to tour Australia this winter and I know that our crowds are looking forward to seeing him again.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=349876&page=2
Haha.
Interesting to see what he says about Tremlett, he needed that talk for sure.
If he really was getting up to 92mph then that's really promising because with his height he could do what Harmison has sometimes managed to do & with a shorter run up hopefully he won't lose control like he has before & obviously how Harmy has too.
I'd love to see us on a really bouncy pitch going in with Flintoff, Harmison, Broad & Tremlett, it could be carnage.
Haha.
Interesting to see what he says about Tremlett, he needed that talk for sure.
If he really was getting up to 92mph then that's really promising because with his height he could do what Harmison has sometimes managed to do & with a shorter run up hopefully he won't lose control like he has before & obviously how Harmy has too.
I'd love to see us on a really bouncy pitch going in with Flintoff, Harmison, Broad & Tremlett, it could be carnage.
He did, i'm sure Clark has helped him this season, He bowled a very similar line to Stuie in his first couple of spells i thought, just outside off, Tremlett bit further back of a length but still good
Are Fox Sports for real?
Again showing highlights while live plays goes on...
England 2/43
England leads by 258 with 5 wickets in hand.
Superstar is unbeaten on 62, Prior on 10.
Vaughan, Collingwood and Bell all dismissed this morning. Collingwood for 4, Vaughan bowled for 30 and Bell bowled for 9. Collingwood is an ordinary test batsman.
Interesting match! Swing, Spin and indifferent bounce!
England leads by 258 with 5 wickets in hand.
Superstar is unbeaten on 62, Prior on 10.
Vaughan, Collingwood and Bell all dismissed this morning. Collingwood for 4, Vaughan bowled for 30 and Bell bowled for 9. Collingwood is an ordinary test batsman.
Your "superstar" is going to need to keep going to get England in a good position, if he goes soon the Indian spirit will be right up.
2 wickets in two balls from Khan....
Sidebottom survives the hattrick...
Tremlett bags a pair in his maiden test.
This tail is truly crap, 4 number 10's! Tremlett only bats 10 for Hants because Bruce is rubbish, Monty bats at 10 because Brown can't bat, Sidebottom is kept at 10 because of Shreck and Anderson bats at 10 because of Keedy! None of them should be at 8, just give them 10 runs after Prior is out and get on with it!
Grimwood
23 Jul 2007, 00:21
This tail is truly crap, 4 number 10's! Tremlett only bats 10 for Hants because Bruce is rubbish, Monty bats at 10 because Brown can't bat, Sidebottom is kept at 10 because of Shreck and Anderson bats at 10 because of Keedy! None of them should be at 8, just give them 10 runs after Prior is out and get on with it!
Goober isn't that bad with the bat is he? He has a better first class average than Broad.
Goober isn't that bad with the bat is he? He has a better first class average than Broad.
He can hit it but he's no 10... He bats below Warne and Udal of course! He's no different to Harmison really, of course there was that 62* he hit V Durham this year which was match changing but he's not consistent
Browney2006
23 Jul 2007, 00:42
India need 380 to win.
England need 10 wickets
4 Sessions left.
Browney2006
23 Jul 2007, 01:41
Lol i dont know what the hell fox sports were thinking in regards to airing this test match, instead of showing it live they are showing it like 3 hours delayed.....i dont think i have ever seen this for cricket before.
Thank god for internet streaming
crownie
23 Jul 2007, 15:29
final day is live on fox
ShearMagic9
23 Jul 2007, 21:12
India struggling, 5 down.
That was an absolute cracking decision from Taufel. I thought he was gone for all money.
Shows why he is the best umpire in the world.
ShearMagic9
23 Jul 2007, 22:05
Need one of these out.
That was an absolute cracking decision from Taufel. I thought he was gone for all money.
Shows why he is the best umpire in the world.
Yet he gave KP out when the ball bounced in front of Dhoni. Third umpire had to recall him.
Need one of these out.
What's the radar saying about the weather for the rest of the day?
Yet he gave KP out when the ball bounced in front of Dhoni. Third umpire had to recall him.
Didn't see that. :eek:
Yet he gave KP out when the ball bounced in front of Dhoni. Third umpire had to recall him.
KP gave himself out really
ShearMagic9
23 Jul 2007, 22:18
Rain is expected.
Some rather dark clouds looming over the ground.
usalion
23 Jul 2007, 22:36
Yet he gave KP out when the ball bounced in front of Dhoni. Third umpire had to recall him.
Third umpire had to be asked by Taufel and Bucknor....so although the girl walked and Simon put up his finger, he had enough support to make the proper call.
And having seen the "catch," it is not the easiest for an umpire to pick up when he has only one look at it in real time. The right decision (to call it not out and recall the girl) was the correct decision.
usalion
24 Jul 2007, 02:22
Rain at Lords....oh, dear....
usalion
24 Jul 2007, 03:08
TMS has left Lords...looks like no more play today...they can play up to 7 PM, which is 55 minutes away now.
Pity....
Grimwood
24 Jul 2007, 03:47
It really has been a freak of a summer.
Still, an unchanged XI for the next test so hopefully we can get stuck into the Indians before they have a chance to regroup.
It really has been a freak of a summer.
Still, an unchanged XI for the next test so hopefully we can get stuck into the Indians before they have a chance to regroup.
The summer is very close to being a write off, almost is in Worcestershire... Awful weather
I thought Trems bowled ok for his first test, nerves there so good to see some character come through... Trenter's is one of his favourite grounds so hopefully he gets another go
usalion
24 Jul 2007, 04:10
The summer is very close to being a write off, almost is in Worcestershire... Awful weather
I thought Trems bowled ok for his first test, nerves there so good to see some character come through... Trenter's is one of his favourite grounds so hopefully he gets another go
From what I gather, the seamers all did reasonably well...nothing excessively wayward, ala Harmisson....and seeing as both Anderson and Tremlett were getting runouts on home soil for the first time (Jimmy did a couple of tests a couple years back, I think)- not a bad effort. You have to figure with the Slopster there, they can throw him in as a fifth bowler, with more junk from vaughan, obe and even the girl.....
Assuming Hoggard is still unfit, no need to change- a bit stiff on Broad, but his time will come......
From what I gather, the seamers all did reasonably well...nothing excessively wayward, ala Harmisson....and seeing as both Anderson and Tremlett were getting runouts on home soil for the first time (Jimmy did a couple of tests a couple years back, I think)- not a bad effort. You have to figure with the Slopster there, they can throw him in as a fifth bowler, with more junk from vaughan, obe and even the girl.....
Assuming Hoggard is still unfit, no need to change- a bit stiff on Broad, but his time will come......
Tremlett was encouraging because it was a swing bowlers match & yet he was still a handful in a different way.
Anderson seems to have matured but he's still way behind Hoggy in the pecking order, I still don't see Sidebottom doing anything on good pitches with no swing around.
As for the wayward Harmison comment it's a real shame for him that he got injured just when Donald seemed to have sorted him out.
IfFlintfoff can ge back to his previous level as a bowler & Harmy comes back & remembers his lessons with Donald then add the ever reliable Hoggy & throw in Anderson, Tremlett, possibly Sidebottom & Broad then the pace bowling stocks do look quite good.
If the great Simon Jones ever got back to what he was then it's super duper & it can only spur Plunkett & Mahmood on to raise their games.Plunkett may do, Mahmood won't in all probability.
I would never go into a Test with Anderson. Sidebottom & Hoggard as the 3 quicks & that's why either Tremlett or Broad putting their hand up was vital until Flintoff/Harmy are back.
When Flintoff comes back it will help Broad because we'll have to play 5 bowlers & the tail will be iffy so Broad may find his batting gets him in ahead of someone else.
With the batting talent of our bowlers though picking Flintoff will unbalance things a bit.
It really has been a freak of a summer.
Still, an unchanged XI for the next test so hopefully we can get stuck into the Indians before they have a chance to regroup.
KP was the major difference between the teams though. And the Indians to me are still ftb's. They showedit in SA and they're showing it here. The ball only has to bounce and move and we don't see these stellar performances.
Bit different to playing the Bangers guys!!!!!!!
KP was the major difference between the teams though. And the Indians to me are still ftb's. They showedit in SA and they're showing it here. The ball only has to bounce and move and we don't see these stellar performances.
Bit different to playing the Bangers guys!!!!!!!
Same as most teams really...
Milo the border collie
24 Jul 2007, 10:46
Dravid was disappointing.
Ray Nolan
24 Jul 2007, 14:38
Dear Rain,
**** off and die.:mad:
Cheers
England
Wheres Eddie whinging that Tauful took the players off to early? :eek:
rdhopkins2
24 Jul 2007, 23:24
Dear Rain,
**** off and die.:mad:
Cheers
England
Is this the same England previously wishing the rain against the Aussies? lol
Is this the same England previously wishing the rain against the Aussies? lol
Well we deserved to win that series like we deserved to win this Test (Albeit only just) If it hadn't rained at OT it would have been a moot point anyway!
Cooldude
25 Jul 2007, 08:23
If it hadn't rained at OT it would have been a moot point anyway!
If you didn't have an overrated captain in Michael Vaughan who'd actually press for the win by putting more players in catching positions, then you would've won both the Old Trafford Test back then and this Test
It seems Vaughan's captaincy was being increasingly scrutinised in terms of how it might have prevented an English win.
Moores defends Vaughan captaincy
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44018000/jpg/_44018461_vaughan_moores.jpg Vaughan and Moores were frustrated by the weather at Lord's
Coach Peter Moores has defended captain Michael Vaughan after England missed out on victory over India at Lord's.
The hosts were a wicket away when bad light and rain ended the first Test but Vaughan has come under fire for setting fields slowly in the second innings.
"I don't think it was that influential to the outcome," Moores insisted.
"It sometimes takes time to set things up and get people in the right places. I thought Michael was outstanding in trying to winkle out batsmen."
England bowled only 10 overs an hour on Sunday evening and Monday even though the forecast was for heavy rain to affect the final day.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif
You need time to think - sometimes mistakes are made and you don't want people rushed
Moores on the slow over-rates
Moores has backed Vaughan's policy of trying to be precise rather than rushing through to achieve the required over-rates.
"If we're a couple of overs short in a session because the captain has moved the field and it's gone towards getting a wicket then it's great," he added.
"Could we have saved a minute here or 30 seconds there, could we have run a bit harder to retrieve that ball? You could go on forever. "You need time to think. Sometimes mistakes are made and you don't want people rushed so it's a fine balance. "There was pressure on everybody to try and get the result. We all knew the weather was coming so there was no shock when it came and we were trying to be measured and put a lot of balls in the right place to make the most of it while we were out there."
If you didn't have an overrated captain in Michael Vaughan who'd actually press for the win by putting more players in catching positions, then you would've won both the Old Trafford Test back then and this Test
Fairy nuff comment... Could have had Glenda run out though... still all in the past, got a test to win
Cooldude
25 Jul 2007, 11:22
When they were 8 or 9 down and the spinners were bowling, he was still intent on giving Dhoni the single...
It was ridiculous, he had like 150 runs to play with and they were dead and buried, instead of trying to hope Dhoni give away the strike to a tailender (Which he didn't) and waste 4 balls of an over, he should've looked to put pressure on Dhoni right from the start and try to make him do something every ball of the over.
His captaincy hasn't changed much from their Ashes win to now: Still overrated and conservative. He was only blessed with a great in-form quartet at the time which made him look far better than he actually is
ShearMagic9
25 Jul 2007, 16:52
Its easy to criticise, and although he is a conservative captain, that is the nature of English people to be honest.
Still doesn't change the fact he's got the best ever record for an England captain.
When they were 8 or 9 down and the spinners were bowling, he was still intent on giving Dhoni the single...
It was ridiculous, he had like 150 runs to play with and they were dead and buried, instead of trying to hope Dhoni give away the strike to a tailender (Which he didn't) and waste 4 balls of an over, he should've looked to put pressure on Dhoni right from the start and try to make him do something every ball of the over.
His captaincy hasn't changed much from their Ashes win to now: Still overrated and conservative. He was only blessed with a great in-form quartet at the time which made him look far better than he actually is
You could say the same that Ponting has had charges like Glenda and Warney over the last few years... as well as a phenomenal batting line up
Its easy to criticise, and although he is a conservative captain, that is the nature of English people to be honest.
Still doesn't change the fact he's got the best ever record for an England captain.
Not many England captains have had as long in the job as him though, so hardly surprising he eventually ends up with the most number of wins. He's had a fairly good team relative to the opposition so you'd expect a half decent record. But it's the matches that should have been won which really make the difference. You have to examine whether or not Vaughan's procrastination made a difference. There's also no guarantee that his presence during our summer's Ashes series would have made a difference. Some automatically think so and put a lot of the blame on Flintoff's captaincy. Though the 2005 Ashes series was a triumph, he was fortunate with, for example, the untimely injury to McGrath and KP's reprieve by Warne and subsequent domination of the bowling. Had Warne caught KP and we had gone on to win the test match, history may have judged Vaughan's captaincy prowess rather differently.
And imagine if Kaspa and Lee could have pulled off an unlikely victory? Vaughan was reponsible in part for the tail putting on a lot of runs. Had we won there the series could have even taken on a new complexion. That series is taken as Vaughan's defining moment in his captaincy, just as it was used to damn Ponting at the time. But so many crucial moments were central to the overall result.
RoosterLad
25 Jul 2007, 19:51
It really has been a freak of a summer.
Still, an unchanged XI for the next test so hopefully we can get stuck into the Indians before they have a chance to regroup.
Not much of a summer ;)
Another draw for the English?
His captaincy hasn't changed much from their Ashes win to now: Still overrated and conservative. He was only blessed with a great in-form quartet at the time which made him look far better than he actually is
I agree he almost lost us the Egbaston Test on the last day.
Firstly it was clear that at the time he didn't rate Simon Jones & so he wasn't going to trust him to bowl on that day....which he didn't.This was bloody stupid as during the next 2 Tests Jones showed that he was in great form & possibly England's most destructive bowler, some of us had suspicions that this would be the case but Vaughan just stumbled on it at OT when Jones was still the last of the quicks to get a bowl.
Secondly he opened the bowling with Flintoff & Harmison in the morning, as soon as I saw that I thought 'he's got nowhere' else to go' it was clear that if they didn't get a quick breakthrough that we were going to be in trouble because Giles generally goes to pieces on the last day & you don't really want him bowling when there's only a few runs to play with & Giles didn't let us down.... bowled tripe.Also you could see that it probably wasn't going to really swing so once they'd seen off one of Harmy & Freddie facing Hoggard was going to be trouble free & feel like a victory.
He should have opened up with Hoggard & Harmison like normal then if nothing had happened could have brought on Flintoff, this would have suddenly upped the ante, the crowd would have gone mad & the whole time he wasn't on the batsmen would have had it in their mind that he would come on & do we try to get as many as possible before he does come on.
The third piece of crap from Vaughan was how he got Flintoff & Harmison to bowl, basically short & straight, how quickly were the runs coming? There were runs down to fine leg for fun & they were getting to the total way too quickly.If we'd have tightened it up I'm sure it would have been a better tactic, force them to lay through the off side, they'd have in all likely hood been an edge or two.
As it was we only got Warne out due to a freaky piece of misjudgement by him.
Vaughan nearly blew that match for us, if he had his whole reputation would never have got pumped up like it has.
Ganguly was right the other day when he said that Nasser was the best England captain that he faced.It's true, give Nasser Flintoff, Harmison, Jones & Hogard in that form & we'd have been an awesome wrecking machine.
Hoggy said that he prefers Vaughan as captain because Vaughan doesn't get angry with him when he bowls crap like Nasser did.......hmmmm maybe Nasser was showing young bowlers what it' all about.Maybe Mahmood & Plunkett could have done with a bit of that.