View Full Version : The ruckman debate...do we play 3?
G_Money
19 Jul 2007, 11:24
From the Age (http://news.realfooty.com.au/thompson-says-cats-can-contain-johnson/20075418-ogd.html)
Thompson said former captain Steven King had played two fantastic games in the VFL and was close to selection for Friday night's match at Telstra Dome.
But King's return will not come at the expense of established ruckmen Brad Ottens or Mark Blake, who have been excellent.
Thompson said the 21-year-old Blake has shown no signs of tiring and was not expected to, given his "strong and durable" body.
"The only other way he (King) is going to get in the side is (if) we think he's going to be of more service to the senior team moreso than one of the other ruckmen and the other ruckmen haven't done much wrong," Thompson said.
"Steven King deserves a game when we think it's warranted that he plays. It will purely be based on form, not on anything else."
...
To me that's very encouraging. It sounds like Kingy will have to bide his time in the VFL, and will only come up if he is needed. Thompson appears to have abandoned the 'three ruckmen' nonsense that he was talking about a month or so ago.
cat_fanatic_21
19 Jul 2007, 11:43
Very encouraging words from Bomber.
I think they will give Blake a weeks rest against Freo next weekend and play the King/Ottens ruck duo against Sandilands and Warnock who are 211cm and 205cm respectively. Kings extra height will come in handy.
This will also give King another week to prove himself in the VFL, as he will not be required against the Dogs.
cat in sydney
19 Jul 2007, 12:00
Is that what he's saying??
The article says, "King's return will not come at the expense of established ruckmen Brad Ottens or Mark Blake", which can mean that he can come back in without it costing Blake or Ottens a spot (i.e. 3 ruckmen).
Also, Bomber says, "the only other way he (King) is going to get in the side..."
Basically, he's saying that they either play three talls, or one of Blake or Otto needs to be injured or total loss of form. What he is saying is that while Blake and Ottens are in form, King will not replace either of them. Big difference.
Ling Sting
19 Jul 2007, 12:02
He should only get a game if his VFL form warrents it.
From what bomber said in the article about not resting players for the sake of it I doubt Blake will be getting a rest while his form is so good.
I think Bomber has been reading our concerns here ;)
Good to hear that players will be picked on form and not on their past. Have said it before, I firmly believe we have a place for King still, but it must be based on the 3 pushing for their selection. Automatic ruck selection is a poor mans game and IMHO has hurt us in the past.
This re assurance will let King know that he is still in the mix, but also that he needs to wait like a lot of other great players we have before they come into the best 22. We have a lot of other great players that deserve a shot, but we just can't squeeze them in. It's no slight on them, but you can't cut a player when it's working for us so well atm.
CatmanForever
19 Jul 2007, 12:59
Bomber has been on the record several times during the year saying that he would be more than happy to play King, Ottens, & Blake in the same game. I think this would mean Otto going back to being a forward with King/Blake in the ruck. I suggest he is toying with this as an alternative set up in case of injuries or maybe even in the finals. But one thing is for sure Bomber rates King highly and has made it clear he wants him to play.
cellis84
19 Jul 2007, 13:44
i actually think i agree with bomber here! my hat, that never happens! king will b a more than reliable back up 2 the otter and mark the match winner blake! ive said it once and ill say it again, its only a matter of time til otter gets injured again. when that time comes i dont think 2 many clubs wld have sum 1 the calibre of kingy running around in the 2s that can come straight up n slot in2 the side.
its a great problem 2 have and we r handling it the right way. otto and blakey should not b dropped 4 kingy until they string a couple of terrible games 2 gether of get injured. simple as that.
Duskfire
19 Jul 2007, 14:19
King will be eager to play as well, especially considering how well the side is going. With an almost imminient chance to make it to the Finals, the old captain won't want to miss out on that if he manages to get back in the side, so expect him to be hungry!
tommahawk
31 Jul 2007, 21:33
have a look at the gfc.com.au website my follow cats supporters king is a certain starter in this weeks game... i personally dont think there is room for otto, blake and king. what do you people think? bad move in my opinion!
bigdroppunt
31 Jul 2007, 21:37
have a look at the gfc.com.au website my follow cats supporters king is a certain starter in this weeks game... i personally dont think there is room for otto, blake and king. what do you people think? bad move in my opinion!
If there was ever a game where i would be happy for king to try come back in or to try three rucks it would be this weekend game
bigdroppunt
31 Jul 2007, 21:40
From the website :
Thompson said King, who last played in the Cats’ round five loss to the Kangaroos, was a certain starter.
“I told him last week he would be playing,” Thompson said.
“He’s in a really good head space and he’s in terrific form [in the VFL],” he said.
“We’ve always rushed him but this time we’ve wanted to get him match fit and then with his game [get him] into some reasonable form before playing him in the side.
“I think it’s perfect timing.”
Thompson hinted in-form ruckman Brad Ottens could be used more up forward this week, paving the way for King to share ruck duties with Mark Blake.
If there was ever a game where i would be happy for king to try come back in or to try three rucks it would be this weekend game
Agree totally hope he plays and plays well. I for one wish him the best of luck.
Tonycam*
31 Jul 2007, 21:44
Its was on the cards to happen soon with Bomber saying all along he wanted to play all three. Guess this is the perfect match to try it out. I have been wrong several times this year (with Ling & Harley) so I will hold judgement till after saturday. Not counting on it but King may just be the ace in the hole for us come finals time. If his fitness last that long. Good luck to him
jess_555
31 Jul 2007, 21:46
Good for Kingy to get a game in the seniors. Although Thompson is mad if he plays 3 talls, the conditions are set to be wet (not the best for talls). Eeekkk :eek: Surely he wont play the 3...
Bryceson
31 Jul 2007, 21:51
Cant work. Otto is now a ruckman, not a forward and if Kingy is to come back then Blake should be given a spell.
Spose we are playing Richmond........
Three ruckmen will not work.
Our entire structure, which has been incredibly successful, goes straight out the window by playing three ruckmen.
bigdroppunt
31 Jul 2007, 21:53
Three ruckmen will not work.
Our entire structure, which has been incredibly successful, goes straight out the window by playing three ruckmen.
yeah good point mabey otto goes foward for mooney rested ??
jess_555
31 Jul 2007, 21:54
Cant work. Otto is now a ruckman, not a forward and if Kingy is to come back then Blake should be given a spell.
Spose we are playing Richmond........
This attitude scares me a little bit. :(
CatmanForever
31 Jul 2007, 22:04
If otto is going to be used as a forward in this game makes me wonder if NAblett or Moons may get a rest this week. In particular Moons.
bigdroppunt
31 Jul 2007, 22:04
This attitude scars me a little bit. :(
where did it scar you ??
bigdroppunt
31 Jul 2007, 22:05
If otto is going to be used as a forward in this game makes me wonder if NAblett or Moons may get a rest this week. In particular Moons.
i wouldnt think nablett would be rested hes had his time off
Kings a Rocket man. Rocket man burning out his fuse up here alone.
Have said it before, will say it again, IF there is a time to try this it is this week.
No disrespect to Richmond intended, because arrogance and no respect costs games, I'd rather we tinker a little now and not in 5 weeks...
So try it now, and get it over with, or drop Blake or Otto for a rest and see how King performs in the majors again. Albeit, it will not be a true test of form, but it can't hurt to see what happens :thumbsu:
Ricketts
31 Jul 2007, 22:23
Even if Ottens is going to plonk himself in the goalsquare and do nothing all game, at least it means a key defender has to man him, and could make it even easier for Mooney to dominate even more than what he already does.
That said i don't want King in the side, just trying to have a look at it this way.
S "Thinks He's Daicos" J
31 Jul 2007, 22:23
The jury's out.
cats2rise
31 Jul 2007, 22:28
Thompson, you spud.
If he plays Ottens up forwards with King/Blake chasring ruck duties I will scream.
Even if it works this week, I will not be happy. Rest Blake if you must... but dont play 3 bloody ruckmen!!!!
Ricketts
31 Jul 2007, 22:37
If it physically/emotionally ends Pattison's career it will be a brilliant move. :thumbsu:
S "Thinks He's Daicos" J
31 Jul 2007, 22:37
Thompson, you spud.
If he plays Ottens up forwards with King/Blake chasring ruck duties I will scream.
Even if it works this week, I will not be happy. Rest Blake if you must... but dont play 3 bloody ruckmen!!!!
I think I agree.
While it's admirable to try to give King a game, and maybe "this is the week to do it", but I don't know if I'm a fan of going back to 2006-style.
I don't want to be flirting with old habits, for example playing Ottens forward and trying to spot him up all game, with very limited results.
We played like that last year, and they beat us last year.
We wll be a better team with a fit Steven King!
Beware we will get Goldspank this week, you can bet on that.
cats2rise
31 Jul 2007, 22:48
How will we be better with a fit Steven King? It will go against our gameplan for the whole goddam year!
I love Mark Blake but his kicking is becoming a bit of a joke, unfortunately.
cats2rise
31 Jul 2007, 22:54
Kings disposal is better?
King previous to 2004 maybe... Since then.. I would not be so sure.
Plus, I have never seen King hit a target by a handball over 15 metres like I saw Blake do last Friday ;)
year of the cat
31 Jul 2007, 22:57
Don't everyone get their knickers in a knot over this - Thompson will be merely bringing King in to give I would think Mooney a break as he has been carrying a niggle for a couple of weeks now. Why not give him an opportunity to get over it before finals start, particularly as we are playing Richmond. It may be flirting with form a little, but I reckon the risk is well worth it.
King is competing against Blake and no one else for a position come finals time. Thompson may be saying otherwise but there is no way he will mess with the current structure that has been so successful this year.
If King is fit and has form coming into the finals then that may be a further bonus to the side, as although Blake has been sericeable this year and has developed beyond expectation, I think a fit and firing King is still a better option.
catempire
31 Jul 2007, 23:03
This is a good move.
If King can string games together it will be an absolute bonus come finals time. At the worst it gives us another option. At best it gives us another quality ruck weapon.
Now is the time to try this. Leave it much longer and it's too late. You want the side to be settled in the weeks leading up to the finals.
If he breaks down again, so be it. Blake and Ottens will do the job. If he stays on the park it can only be a good thing.
Copernicus
31 Jul 2007, 23:08
So long as a tall gets dropped, then this may be a good move. Having three ruckman in the side is going to make it a wee bit unbalanced, and Otto hasn't proven himself as a key forward at any point. He can pinch-hit, but I wouldn't want him plonked in the square all day.
The main argument against (that of structure and all) holds water, but I'd like to see what unfolds at the selection table on Thursday night before I really begin leaning one way or another.
CE does bring up a good (certainly the major other) point though - that of getting King in now or never. I've just about lost all confidence/hope in him getting himself right, but optimistically speaking, he could yet play a big part in how the next few weeks (particularly September and beyond) unfold. Or not, who knows.
Only one way to find out.
Kings disposal is better?
King previous to 2004 maybe... Since then.. I would not be so sure.
Plus, I have never seen King hit a target by a handball over 15 metres like I saw Blake do last Friday ;)
Have you been watching the 2's at all this year? There is nothing wrong with King's disposal.
Rockford
31 Jul 2007, 23:19
Blake could use a rest, King in for Blake. All 3 together, hmmm.. dunno about that. Who'd get dropped for King and Chappy to come in if Blake and Ottens were going to stay in the side? Byrnes for Chappy but then who for King?
cats2rise
31 Jul 2007, 23:22
Have you been watching the 2's at all this year? There is nothing wrong with King's disposal.
AFL > VFL. If he performs over 3 or so weeks in the seniors, I will eat my own words.
jess_555
31 Jul 2007, 23:25
where did it scar you ??
On my heart.
King can still kick the ball better than Blake. Time will tell.
peter_ford
1 Aug 2007, 00:02
cant believe they would drop blake, he has done nothing wrong
Big Nasty
1 Aug 2007, 00:16
Blake has been sensational this season, but as a lot of people have suggested he has dropped off in the last few weeks and should be given a break. With that said, King should definetly get at least 3 week's to prove his worth in this side, and If he dosen't show more value than blake in that period then Geelong need to put him out to stud.
MmkMrMackie
1 Aug 2007, 01:39
Blake has been sensational this season, but as a lot of people have suggested he has dropped off in the last few weeks and should be given a break. With that said, King should definetly get at least 3 week's to prove his worth in this side, and If he dosen't show more value than blake in that period then Geelong need to put him out to stud.
I wouldn't mind being put out to stud if I had a gf as hot as Kingy's. :P
Deep North
1 Aug 2007, 02:50
Good grief! What is it with all this worry and panic and gameplan crap. King will come in for either Mooney or Blake or N Ablett i.e. someone who needs a rest. There will not be three ruckmen.
We are developing the greatest gift a finals team can have- BIG MAN DEPTH!! Its what wins GF's. You can't build real depth without being seen to be having depth and that only comes from playing people in the ones.
Our forward line has been great without kicking any bags. Nathan kicked one and Mooney kicked three last week in an absolute flogging- what risk is there in Ottens in the forward line for a week, win or loose.
There is no down side to this move so just calm calm calm..... breath...... thats it we're in a nice place.
scottydeewah
1 Aug 2007, 03:09
Otto was up forward a lot V Freo I noticed. Was it to pave the road for this I wonder.
Rockford
1 Aug 2007, 03:30
Otto was up forward a lot V Freo I noticed. Was it to pave the road for this I wonder.
He would've had a goal too except for Stokesy's pass to him was abysmal. Only thing Stokes did wrong all day that I can recall.
why the hell would we want to have slower ball movement whenever king is involved in the play...!?!?!?
this is ridiculous....
A lot of people with short memories don't like Steven King, but IMO, if he is fit and confident, he is a better player than Mark Blake.
I have loved seeing Mark Blake's improvement this year. If he continues to improve for another 1-2 years, he will be one of the best ruckmen in the competition. In 1-2 years, King will most likely be retired.
Geelong has done the right thing by playing King in the VFL for a month to get his match fitness and confidence up, as well as making sure that he isn't going to break down with injury straight away.
For those in doubt, here is a hypothetical. A Geelong ruckman that isn't Brad Ottens takes a mark 40 metres out from goal directly in front at the 30 minute mark of the last quarter of the GF when the cats are 3 points down. While we all love to cheer when Blake kicks the ball, would you really prefer that he had it in this situation than King?
The Dukes Brian
1 Aug 2007, 08:28
Like the old saying - "If its not broken, then why fix it". Senior football has passed King by. He may be a star in the VFL, but its a big step to the seniors and if your out of it for a while and have a body much like his, your going to be left way behind.
Leave it like it is! Blake is fine.
Renegade
1 Aug 2007, 09:00
Another stupid Thompson idea. 13 degrees and wet on sat....but hey, let's bring in King and maybe use 3 talls.
Another example of Thompson playing his favouites.
If there is a good time to bring King back in, it's against a team with no ruck division whatsoever. As other people have said, it better be another tall who is omitted, and I have a feeling that it'll be Blake or Mooney who gets a rest this week. Here's hoping King makes a mockery of all the doubters and plays a blinder.
kriso182
1 Aug 2007, 09:22
cant believe they would drop blake, he has done nothing wrong
I'm a Blake fan but his last month has been pretty poor. I think the timing is right for King to get a game this week. Blake can work his butt off in the VFL and earn his spot back.
kriso182
1 Aug 2007, 09:24
Another stupid Thompson idea. 13 degrees and wet on sat....but hey, let's bring in King and maybe use 3 talls.
Another example of Thompson playing his favouites.
Yeah he has made so many of them this year. :rolleyes:
Blake will not play.
Dont you hate pants?
1 Aug 2007, 09:40
I think that this is the last roll of the dice for King. If he plays well and his form warrants it, keep him in the side. A bigger body come finals time would definitely help. If he outperforms Blake...who knows?
If his body breaks down like it usually does, no harm no foul, he wont be part of our finals plans.
It may seem sinister but I think it be the latter.
Like the old saying - "If its not broken, then why fix it". Senior football has passed King by. He may be a star in the VFL, but its a big step to the seniors and if your out of it for a while and have a body much like his, your going to be left way behind.
Leave it like it is! Blake is fine.
Being a star in the VFL has been the argument for bringing a whole bunch of players into the 1's - where else are players supposed to prove their value??? I agree that Blake is a good player, but I think King has earned a recall and I think most supporters will be hoping he does a great job - all the better for Geelong if he does.
Rik E Boy
1 Aug 2007, 10:00
Like the old saying - "If its not broken, then why fix it". Senior football has passed King by. He may be a star in the VFL, but its a big step to the seniors and if your out of it for a while and have a body much like his, your going to be left way behind.
Leave it like it is! Blake is fine.
You want to wait till it breaks? Not in favour of three ruckmen in the wet but I am favour of giving King a run. Blakey could do with a spell IMO.
regards,
REB
crocstar
1 Aug 2007, 10:31
The best way to compare Blake and King is for them to play against the same opposition. Logic follows that they must play in the same game. This is a great opportunity to assess both players so that the correct one is selected come finals time.
Solstice Raver
1 Aug 2007, 10:34
A fit King is the key to our finals success. No-one in the current 22 line-up has really done anythingwrong to warrant a demotion but we need to get our fringe players ready for a call up in the finals.
Finals footy is close, tough and inside. This will inevitably lead to injuries unfortuantely. We need to be sure of our depth.
Another thing to think about is that Richmond is going to name their rookie ruckman this week and with their current ruck division getting smashed it will probably be an easier run for Kingy in the seniors rather than the VFL anyway.
Have faith in our selection committee people. Have they made a bad call at all this year? Look where it has got us so far.
Partridge
1 Aug 2007, 10:34
Good grief! What is it with all this worry and panic and gameplan crap. King will come in for either Mooney or Blake or N Ablett i.e. someone who needs a rest. There will not be three ruckmen.
Our forward line has been great without kicking any bags. Nathan kicked one and Mooney kicked three last week in an absolute flogging- what risk is there in Ottens in the forward line for a week, win or loose.
The worry is a) having 3 ruckman, and b) Ottens playing as a forward.
Myself and others have mentioned this many times. When Ottens plays in the ruck, we win. When he plays as a forward, we struggle.
I actually am in favour of bringing King in. He's correctly come through the reserves, and they need to find out if he still has what it takes. Perfect opportunity. And as much as Blake has improved he's been down for a few weeks. A spell in the 2s could be beneficial. Consider also that Richmond are debuting a ruckman - meaning he'll be up against 2 huge experienced bodies in Ottens and King all day. There is no reason why we should not absolutely dominate the hitouts around the ground.
It won't be Mooney getting rested - because that's insane. He's simply too important. And it won't be Nathan Ablett, he's only just come back. He needs more time in the seniors, not less.
Here's the plan - King, Chapman in; Blake, Byrnes out. Ottens starts in the ruck and swaps off the bench with King. Mooney and Nathan Ablett play as the key forwards. Aside from finding out what King's got to offer, it's also a good chance for Nathan Ablett to run himself back into form.
Mooney_d'King
1 Aug 2007, 11:03
The worry is a) having 3 ruckman, and b) Ottens playing as a forward.
Myself and others have mentioned this many times. When Ottens plays in the ruck, we win. When he plays as a forward, we struggle.
I actually am in favour of bringing King in. He's correctly come through the reserves, and they need to find out if he still has what it takes. Perfect opportunity. And as much as Blake has improved he's been down for a few weeks. A spell in the 2s could be beneficial. Consider also that Richmond are debuting a ruckman - meaning he'll be up against 2 huge experienced bodies in Ottens and King all day. There is no reason why we should not absolutely dominate the hitouts around the ground.
It won't be Mooney getting rested - because that's insane. He's simply too important. And it won't be Nathan Ablett, he's only just come back. He needs more time in the seniors, not less.
Here's the plan - King, Chapman in; Blake, Byrnes out. Ottens starts in the ruck and swaps off the bench with King. Mooney and Nathan Ablett play as the key forwards. Aside from finding out what King's got to offer, it's also a good chance for Nathan Ablett to run himself back into form.
Yep that's my take on it too. And all the others that have mentioned testing depth and having players ready to fill-in after finals injuries are spot-on too, IMO.
bigdroppunt
1 Aug 2007, 11:43
no one has mentioned the fact that we could be playing king to put some value on him. trade bait ?
no one has mentioned the fact that we could be playing king to put some value on him. trade bait ?
Trade bait is a long way back in the teams minds at the moment. It is all about the finals now.
I would go as far as to say that King must play this week. It is the perfect week to rest Blake as many have suggested. Blake is still a young player in the AFL's most demanding position on your body. I would name Blake emg for this game, giving him a week off and then a 1/2 in the VFL next week.
King needs some senior time so that he is a viable option in the finals should he be called upon. If he steps up and plays a couple of blinders showing better mobility than earlier this year, all the better.
a.f.k.a.y.o.p.
1 Aug 2007, 12:02
The worry is a) having 3 ruckman, and b) Ottens playing as a forward.
Myself and others have mentioned this many times. When Ottens plays in the ruck, we win. When he plays as a forward, we struggle.
I actually am in favour of bringing King in. He's correctly come through the reserves, and they need to find out if he still has what it takes. Perfect opportunity. And as much as Blake has improved he's been down for a few weeks. A spell in the 2s could be beneficial. Consider also that Richmond are debuting a ruckman - meaning he'll be up against 2 huge experienced bodies in Ottens and King all day. There is no reason why we should not absolutely dominate the hitouts around the ground.
It won't be Mooney getting rested - because that's insane. He's simply too important. And it won't be Nathan Ablett, he's only just come back. He needs more time in the seniors, not less.
Here's the plan - King, Chapman in; Blake, Byrnes out. Ottens starts in the ruck and swaps off the bench with King. Mooney and Nathan Ablett play as the key forwards. Aside from finding out what King's got to offer, it's also a good chance for Nathan Ablett to run himself back into form.
How about King, Blake and Ottens in the side if the mail is true and Mooney needs a rest, with King rotating out of FF not Ottens, a stationary target given his size and lack of Richmond defenders anywhere near a close match, and Stokes and SJ roving off him?
lets think outside the box people. Richmond wont think of it.........and that way King and Blak are compared against the same opposition. Its a win- win!!
bigdroppunt
1 Aug 2007, 12:05
How about King, Blake and Ottens in the side if the mail is true and Mooney needs a rest, with King rotating out of FF not Ottens, a stationary target given his size and lack of Richmond defenders anywhere near a close match, and Stokes and SJ roving off him?
lets think outside the box people. Richmond wont think of it.........and that way King and Blak are compared against the same opposition. Its a win- win!!
have your forgoten that king cant take a contested mark?
Rustybugles
1 Aug 2007, 12:37
This is a good move.
If King can string games together it will be an absolute bonus come finals time. At the worst it gives us another option. At best it gives us another quality ruck weapon.
Now is the time to try this. Leave it much longer and it's too late. You want the side to be settled in the weeks leading up to the finals.
If he breaks down again, so be it. Blake and Ottens will do the job. If he stays on the park it can only be a good thing.
Bomber is going to bring him back - let's face it! As most have said, it's probably a good match to try him out - we think we know his limitations - but if he moves around the ground a bit and remember, he can kick, then we have to look at his inclusion in finals as a given. I just love Blake's efforts this year - and nothing against him, but geez, I've been waiting since 1963 before most of you were born - and we'll do whatever we need to do to get that flag. I felt ill watching King struggle last year - times when he could barely walk, let alone run and ruck, and they knew that he was carrying an injury at the start of the year! Anyway, good luck to him for Saturday!
a.f.k.a.y.o.p.
1 Aug 2007, 12:58
have your forgoten that king cant take a contested mark?
Wont have to - to contest a mark you have to have a competitive opposition:D..........
Plus only needs to make the contest - just lob it up to him - and get the ball to ground. SJ and Stokesy to do the rest.........
Partridge
1 Aug 2007, 13:19
Wont have to - to contest a mark you have to have a competitive opposition:D..........
Plus only needs to make the contest - just lob it up to him - and get the ball to ground. SJ and Stokesy to do the rest.........
All I'll say is that we haven't won 12 in a row for over 50 years, and now people are proposing we start screwing around with what has made that run possible. Namely:
1. Moving Ottens from the ruck.
2. Taking Mooney out of the forward line. He does not - repeat NOT - need a rest.
3. Playing a slow, lumbering ruckman as a key forward. In case you've forgotten, we did this in round 1 against the Dogs. We lost.
It's so simple. Blake gets dropped, King comes in. Ottens and King swap as ruckman, and we continue to let Mooney, NAB, Johnson and co. kick the goals. Common sense please.
Skeppersap
1 Aug 2007, 13:32
I could be imagining things here......
I remember a game about 6 or 7 years ago when we wereplaying Richmond at Skilled Stadium when King moved down into the forward line anf kicked 4 or 5 goals to single handedly win us the game.
As I said, I may have somehow imagined this, can someone help confim with some details?
kriso182
1 Aug 2007, 14:02
have your forgoten that king cant take a contested mark?
And how many has Blake taken? I think with the side winning form Blakes form over the past month has gone unnoticed.
bigdroppunt
1 Aug 2007, 14:11
And how many has Blake taken? I think with the side winning form Blakes form over the past month has gone unnoticed.
yeah but blake doesnt go foward like the post i was responding too stated
Partridge
1 Aug 2007, 15:59
I could be imagining things here......
I remember a game about 6 or 7 years ago when we wereplaying Richmond at Skilled Stadium when King moved down into the forward line anf kicked 4 or 5 goals to single handedly win us the game.
As I said, I may have somehow imagined this, can someone help confim with some details?
It was 6 years ago - in 2001. King kicked 4, from memory all in the last quarter. Interestingly enough, one B.Ottens kicked 6 for Richmond that day.
But that's the point - it was 6 years ago. King is not capable of that anymore, and I strongly doubt Ottens is either. Why muck around with what is working? Play them both in the ruck and drop Blake.
There is no team that plays 3 ruckmen anymore. For a simple reason too. The game is too fast and it makes them too slow. As recently as 3 weeks ago we saw what happens when Ottens started in the goalsquare against Collingwood. Fraser dominates for 5 minutes, Collingwood kick the first 2 goals. Ottens goes into the middle (where he should have been all along), and mysteriously Fraser goes out of it and we kick the next 5 goals.
There's a lesson there somewhere.
a.f.k.a.y.o.p.
1 Aug 2007, 17:22
It was 6 years ago - in 2001. King kicked 4, from memory all in the last quarter. Interestingly enough, one B.Ottens kicked 6 for Richmond that day.
But that's the point - it was 6 years ago. King is not capable of that anymore, and I strongly doubt Ottens is either. Why muck around with what is working? Play them both in the ruck and drop Blake.
There is no team that plays 3 ruckmen anymore. For a simple reason too. The game is too fast and it makes them too slow. As recently as 3 weeks ago we saw what happens when Ottens started in the goalsquare against Collingwood. Fraser dominates for 5 minutes, Collingwood kick the first 2 goals. Ottens goes into the middle (where he should have been all along), and mysteriously Fraser goes out of it and we kick the next 5 goals.
There's a lesson there somewhere.
Mate - we are not playing Collingwood who in Fraser have one of the best running ruckmen int he comp. we are playing Richmond.
You are comparing Apples and Oranges.
I say Kingy to FF, changing with Otto and Blake coming off the bench for the ruck contests. You all want to test Kingy out - what better way?
Put the pressure on him to let him show how useful he can be to the team......and remember - i only suggested this if Mooney is actually carrying a niggle and needs a rest. Not is if he is playing...........
S "Thinks He's Daicos" J
1 Aug 2007, 17:25
All I'll say is that we haven't won 12 in a row for over 50 years, and now people are proposing we start screwing around with what has made that run possible. Namely:
1. Moving Ottens from the ruck.
2. Taking Mooney out of the forward line. He does not - repeat NOT - need a rest.
3. Playing a slow, lumbering ruckman as a key forward. In case you've forgotten, we did this in round 1 against the Dogs. We lost.
It's so simple. Blake gets dropped, King comes in. Ottens and King swap as ruckman, and we continue to let Mooney, NAB, Johnson and co. kick the goals. Common sense please.
The only way it will work.
S "Thinks He's Daicos" J
1 Aug 2007, 17:27
Mate - we are not playing Collingwood who in Fraser have one of the best running ruckmen int he comp. we are playing Richmond.
You are comparing Apples and Oranges.
I say Kingy to FF, changing with Otto and Blake coming off the bench for the ruck contests. You all want to test Kingy out - what better way?
Put the pressure on him to let him show how useful he can be to the team......and remember - i only suggested this if Mooney is actually carrying a niggle and needs a rest. Not is if he is playing...........
Mooney is either injured or he's not - there should be no "rest".
sarah.13
1 Aug 2007, 17:31
The only way it will work.
Exactly the way it will work.Bomber is just playing ducks and drakes with the media and wallace.
Ricketts
1 Aug 2007, 19:32
I say Kingy to FF, changing with Otto and Blake coming off the bench for the ruck contests. You all want to test Kingy out - what better way?
Why would you want to test Kingy out by playing him in a position that, if he holds a spot in the 1's, he will not play in.
sarah.13
1 Aug 2007, 19:47
Why would you want to test Kingy out by playing him in a position that, if he holds a spot in the 1's, he will not play in.
If King is to play he needs to play on the ball.
If Blake is dropped King/Ottens ruck all day.
If Blake stays Blake/King ruck all day,Ottens plays FF for half a Qtr and gets a rest for the 2nd half.
Agree with you Ricketts, if King gets into the side it will be as a ruckman.:thumbsu:
Blake can work his butt off in the VFL and earn his spot back.
Yeah that's great, but who will he realistically replace? King is a Thompson favourite and is being gifted a place in a finals side despite Blake doing all the hard work over the year. King will not be dropped at this stage of the year providing he stays fit. I believe he's back for good, form will be irrelevant.
Tonycam*
1 Aug 2007, 22:30
Yeah that's great, but who will he realistically replace? King is a Thompson favourite and is being gifted a place in a finals side despite Blake doing all the hard work over the year. King will not be dropped at this stage of the year providing he stays fit. I believe he's back for good, form will be irrelevant.
injury is another thing. Hope it doesnt happen but have a feeling injury pron King will be his own worst enemy
year of the cat
1 Aug 2007, 22:31
Mooney is either injured or he's not - there should be no "rest".
Surely there are different degrees of injury. Ask Luke Ball. If Mooney is carrying a niggle that could potentially get worse or may benefit from a weeks rest, then why wouldn't you give him a break. Particularly against Richmond, when we are playing at home.
Mooney is our most important player. We need him fit and firing in 6 weeks. If giving him a week off against the worst team in the league will ensure he is fit for finals then give him a break.
MmkMrMackie
1 Aug 2007, 22:31
Yeah that's great, but who will he realistically replace? King is a Thompson favourite and is being gifted a place in a finals side despite Blake doing all the hard work over the year. King will not be dropped at this stage of the year providing he stays fit. I believe he's back for good, form will be irrelevant.
It's unlucky, but that happens in every football team. From the AFL all the way down to the U8 girls auskick.
sarah.13
1 Aug 2007, 23:10
Yeah that's great, but who will he realistically replace? King is a Thompson favourite and is being gifted a place in a finals side despite Blake doing all the hard work over the year. King will not be dropped at this stage of the year providing he stays fit. I believe he's back for good, form will be irrelevant.
These chances don't come often,favoritism will not come into it. We have seen this with Gardiner,Byrnes Hunt,Playfair etc..
The leadership group,other selectors,Neil Balme Frank Costa etc..will not allow the selection of the best possible team to be compromised.
If King plays well he'll get a game if not Blake will return.There will be no teachers pets when it comes to the big day,we have starved for too long.
10 years of service, former captain with an AA year.
+ Good form in the VFL
+ Dead rubber against Richmond
King deserves a shot. No harm in resting Blake's young body for a week and who knows what King has left in him.
Yeah that's great, but who will he realistically replace? King is a Thompson favourite and is being gifted a place in a finals side despite Blake doing all the hard work over the year. King will not be dropped at this stage of the year providing he stays fit. I believe he's back for good, form will be irrelevant.
Hope I'm wrong but I tend to agree with you, not about King keeping his place irrespective of form, highly unlikely that would happen, but what happens if he plays a good/serviceable game at the weekend, as he should against Richmonds ruck division, does he then hold his spot, and if so is it at the expense of Blake or in tandem with Blake and Ottens [ God forbid ]
afl genius
2 Aug 2007, 21:24
What is bomber thinking:mad:, Steven king of injuries shouldnt have a spot unless Blake or Ottens get injured or have a few poor games, but didnt happen. Now Bomber loses his mine and thinks playing 19 ruckman is okay. Not good enough Bomber
What do everybody else think about this?
I don't agree with it but if there is one game King is playing this year I'm glad it's this one. Maybe he wants Otto to kick a bag against his old team? :o
Tonycam*
2 Aug 2007, 21:29
What is bomber thinking:mad:, Steven king of injuries shouldnt have a spot unless Blake or Ottens get injured or have a few poor games, but didnt happen. Now Bomber loses his mine and thinks playing 19 ruckman is okay. Not good enough Bomber
What do everybody else think about this?
And a wet day on top of this.
It been said on here before that Bomber had wanted King in for the Richmond game for a long time . guess the weather makes little differnce to him.
cat in sydney
2 Aug 2007, 21:32
I'd be reckoning that Bomber will drop one of the three talls and include one of the emergencies.
Barabbas
2 Aug 2007, 21:35
I'd be reckoning that Bomber will drop one of the three talls and include one of the emergencies.
Agree. Reckon Blake will be rested.
Sickened by selectors in general. First Cam White doesn't get picked for 20/20 world cup and now this
Oscarlett
2 Aug 2007, 22:14
Good move, thinking for the near future, those who don't understand or think that Blake is the better option than King (come rd 20 and finals) are kidding themselves.
cats2rise
2 Aug 2007, 22:25
Ok then..
What has King done to show he will be better than Blake come finals time this year?
Or even the past 3 years?
bigdroppunt
2 Aug 2007, 22:34
Ok then..
What has King done to show he will be better than Blake come finals time this year?
Or even the past 3 years?
well this is his chance this is the one last chance im giving kingy and i not just happy if we win i for one will be watching him very closely. kingy you on notice.
My5t3r10u5
2 Aug 2007, 23:26
I doubt that Thompson will take 3 ruckmen into the finals (although I am interested to see how the side performs with 3 in). My guess is that he is going to have a close look at King and Blake going head to head while Otto plays forward before deciding whether to go with Blake or King in the finals.
Personally, I think that King has more upside than Blake for this year. I wouldn't mind having Kingy's experience, bigger body and leadership running around in the finals if he's got his body right. Blake has the potential to be an absolute gun, but he's still developing... T'will be interesting to see what develops over the next few weeks.
Just how long do we give King to find form? We've only got just over a month until the first final, we can't experiment this late in the season.
Team Chemistry
3 Aug 2007, 00:06
i for one am thrilled with this inclusion
having said that, i only mean it in the situation we are in, i.e. playing richmond
its the perfect ipportunity to give "The King" one last chance; no excuses this time, he's in good form in the 2s, he's apparently fit, and the opposition rnt much chop
so i dont mind having the 3 in there, and i wouldnt expect the 3 to all be in the team at the same time again this season, but i think its a great move for this game
long live "The King"
chemistry out:eek:
I'd be reckoning that Bomber will drop one of the three talls and include one of the emergencies.
I hope so though I am curious to see our team goes with three talls.
I actually hope Queen has a bad-ish game (better not lose it for us though) so we can make up our minds about our ruckmen!
I guess it's better us chopping and changing our line up now rather than in the finals.
Mooney_d'King
3 Aug 2007, 00:18
Scenario:
Geelong is 2 games clear on top of the ladder.
A former AA ruckman and former club captain returns to form (arguably).
The team is settled, but maybe becoming comfortable.
The coaching collective wants to unsettle the team to see how they cope with it while they have the luxury of 2 games clear.
Also, the coaching collective want to give King some AFL game time in case shit goes down either before the end of the year or during finals.
Even if they do deliberately want to unsettle the team, to test them, when could there be a better time that against the bottom of the ladder team?
Sorry, but I just can't see the problem for this round.
Mooney_d'King
3 Aug 2007, 00:19
Scenario:
Geelong is 2 games clear on top of the ladder.
A former AA ruckman and former club captain returns to form (arguably).
The team is settled, but maybe becoming comfortable.
The coaching collective wants to unsettle the team to see how they cope with it while they have the luxury of 2 games clear.
Also, the coaching collective want to give King some AFL game time in case shit goes down either before the end of the year or during finals.
Even if they do deliberately want to unsettle the team, to test them, when could there be a better time that against the bottom of the ladder team?
Sorry, but I just can't see the problem for this round.