View Full Version : Essendon v Collingwood. A Tale of Free Kicks
kelvin_sheedy
19 Jul 2007, 11:18
Here's a run down of the free kick stats since 2000:
2000
Collingwood 14 - 12
Collingwood 14 - 11
2001
Collingwood 22 - 14
Collingwood 18 - 17
2002
Collingwood 18 - 14
Collingwood 21 - 12
2003
Collingwood 14 - 6
Collingwood 16 - 11
2004
Essendon 16 - 18
Essendon 21 - 24
2005
Collingwood 12- 11
Draw 18 - 18
2006
Collingwood 16 - 11
Collingwood 18 - 12
2007
Collingwood 20 - 10
Total
Collingwood 258 - 201
Quite staggering. The pies get the rub of the frees in 12 out of the 15 contests with one draw. The have had 57 more frees over the period! :eek:
According to the bigfooty community we get the rub of the green with Lloyds dives and Hirds pay off :confused:
Why so?
ThePeckers
19 Jul 2007, 11:24
And they always say that the team that goes harder at the ball gets the free kicks, which is generally the top sides. Collingwood + West Coast love the free kicks
Adelaide couldn't buy a free kick! :confused:
Palmer Stoat
19 Jul 2007, 11:30
They're surprising statistics, no doubt. I will say that the powerful Essendon teams in the 2000 to 2001 period were well known, and generally much lauded, for being intimidators, and I suspect would have a free kick deficit not just against Collingwood, but against most teams. As for more recent history, I have no explanation.
Aristotel
19 Jul 2007, 11:32
That's an average of only 3-4 extra free kicks to Collingwood per match...
And I wouldn't complain too much, one of those seasons you've included was an Essendon premiership year....
I suppose some of the criticism surrounding Llyod and his 'diving' has to do with where he gets his free-kicks; e.g. right infront of goal, which usually has an immediate scoreboard effect.
Palmer Stoat
19 Jul 2007, 11:32
And before this turns into another Collingwood conspiracy thread, let me add that the Pies have received 272 free kicks and conceded 277 this year.
Firstly I believe Essendon have been a lot less disciplined team than Collingwood over that era and as such likely given away a lot more free kicks. It doesn't surprise me. :thumbsu:
What does suprirse me is two things.
1. The sheer number of extra free kick.... 57... it's quite a few isn't it? Makes you wonder.
2. A 'free kick whine' thread has actually been created before the game starts. :confused:
No1SwansFan
19 Jul 2007, 11:41
I suppose some of the criticism surrounding Llyod and his 'diving' has to do with where he gets his free-kicks; e.g. right infront of goal, which usually has an immediate scoreboard effect.
I agree with that.......I have noticed (and yes before the yelling and screaming starts I am a swans supporter) Barry Hall will freely get paid frees up ground but not in font of goal like Lloyd. Noticed the same thing with Rocca in the Melbourne game (at least i think it was Melbourne). He was very hard done by. And I am sure there are a few more around in other teams but to be quite honest We dont see much more than Collingwood games in Sydney.
MadDawg
19 Jul 2007, 11:49
West Coast should get free kicks paid against them for tripping!
SydneyDon
19 Jul 2007, 11:54
So it's 3-4 extra frees per game.
Dean Soloman has left now so expect things to even up.
kelvin_sheedy
19 Jul 2007, 12:01
Just hoping there's an ump out there reading these forums :)
My theory as to why this occurs :
It boils down to Collingwood getting the home town decisions due to the crowd factor. The games are generally played in front of a large crowd and the pie supporters are usually louder due to the "nuff nuff" factor.
The umps get sucked in and it results in a few extra frees.
Aristotel
19 Jul 2007, 12:03
Just hoping there's an ump out there reading these forums :)
My theory as to why this occurs :
It boils down to Collingwood getting the home town decisions due to the crowd factor. The games are generally played in front of a large crowd and the pie supporters are usually louder due to the "nuff nuff" factor.
The umps get sucked in and it results in a few extra frees.
hahahahaha....
Fortunately for the Essendon Footy Club, most of your Bomber-mates don't seem to be a dim-witted as yourself.
Darealrath
19 Jul 2007, 12:10
I didn't pay notice of it until this year when a mate mentioned to me that the pies always get the better. Sure enough, 20-10 their way.
Here's a run down of the free kick stats since 2000:
2000
Collingwood 14 - 12
Collingwood 14 - 11
2001
Collingwood 22 - 14
Collingwood 18 - 17
2002
Collingwood 18 - 14
Collingwood 21 - 12
2003
Collingwood 14 - 6
Collingwood 16 - 11
2004
Essendon 16 - 18
Essendon 21 - 24
2005
Collingwood 12- 11
Draw 18 - 18
2006
Collingwood 16 - 11
Collingwood 18 - 12
2007
Collingwood 20 - 10
Total
Collingwood 258 - 201
Quite staggering. The pies get the rub of the frees in 12 out of the 15 contests with one draw. The have had 57 more frees over the period! :eek:
According to the bigfooty community we get the rub of the green with Lloyds dives and Hirds pay off :confused:
Why so?
Thats only part of the story. Go back even further & the trend gets even worse. Anzac day 96 was probably the most 1 sided umpiring I've ever seen & from memory they had more than double (I still shake my head at the free to Rocca in 95). In most cases you could say these things work in round abouts where you get the rub one time but it goes against you the next. You can also make the case that the team who gets the ball 1st or goes in harder gets the frees & this is often true but when you look at the winning records of the matches (Anzac day in particular) you could hardly say either team has dominated in any area except for Collingwood's domination of the frees. You can't even suggest that its because of particular players because it pre-dates just about every player out there.
drewie_rama
19 Jul 2007, 20:17
that 16-11 2006 anzac day only tells half the story, they were awful that day, that free against mcphee in the last quarter i will never ever forget..****ing brett allen
whinge over
pointless doing threads like this before a match
just opening yourself up to criticism later
although il take it if it means we win the game through a goal from a free kick:D
Palmer Stoat
20 Jul 2007, 13:32
Just hoping there's an ump out there reading these forums :)
My theory as to why this occurs :
It boils down to Collingwood getting the home town decisions due to the crowd factor. The games are generally played in front of a large crowd and the pie supporters are usually louder due to the "nuff nuff" factor.
The umps get sucked in and it results in a few extra frees.
Ah, c'mon. Essendon-Collingwood crowds are close enough to 50-50 for the crowd factor to be nonexistent. I think you need a better theory.
We average 3.8 more free kicks per game than Essendon. So what. What is everyone's fascination with free kick counts?
Merv Neagle
21 Jul 2007, 12:32
We average 3.8 more free kicks per game than Essendon. So what. What is everyone's fascination with free kick counts?
The fascination is we get so much sh!t on these boards about winning games because of free kicks....it's all BS.
3.8 more frees is nothing and the reason i would think Collingwood would get more frees is that they have more players that put their nose over the ball.
Generally frees have nothing to do with the result.....
Looking forward to a cracker today.
Palmer Stoat
21 Jul 2007, 19:15
Free kicks:
Essendon 16
Collingwood 15
The trend is broken.
drewie_rama
21 Jul 2007, 19:36
Free kicks:
Essendon 16
Collingwood 15
The trend is broken.
lol
the funniest was the collingwood fool next to me, just waiting for the free kick stats to come up at half time "they must be ten up" he says, only for it to come out that collingwood were ahead. haha
idiot he was
kelvin_sheedy
22 Jul 2007, 00:22
The best umpired game between the two sides ever :thumbsu:
The only poor decision was the Lucas - Obrien holding the ball.
The Majestic
22 Jul 2007, 22:09
Firstly I believe Essendon have been a lot less disciplined team than Collingwood over that era and as such likely given away a lot more free kicks. It doesn't surprise me. :thumbsu:
What does suprirse me is two things.
1. The sheer number of extra free kick.... 57... it's quite a few isn't it? Makes you wonder.
2. A 'free kick whine' thread has actually been created before the game starts. :confused:
It did seem odd.
I cannot believe Harry got that holding the ball against him though, luckily that was as bad as it got.
lol
the funniest was the collingwood fool next to me, just waiting for the free kick stats to come up at half time "they must be ten up" he says, only for it to come out that collingwood were ahead. haha
idiot he was
almost as funny as the bloke in front of me who told his kids that fletch and mal were the greatest defenders of all time
Thommo 42
22 Jul 2007, 22:47
free kick counts are the stupidest measure of umpiring performance out there.
Some teams just infringe more, its the ones they miss or the incorrect ones they pay that riles me up. If we get hammered on the count and I can't recall one poor decision, I couldn't care less if it was a free kick counf of 5-30, as long as they get it right.
Pie eyed
22 Jul 2007, 22:55
While your stats a interesting they do not take into account where the frees were payed at what point in the game or whether they were legitimate free kicks.
Big difference between a free to a backman for a hold by a forward which is brought back after the ball has already entered the backmans forward line effectively penalising the defenders team and a free payed to a fullforward who's team is down 6 points and throws himself forward after trapping both the defenders arms in his arm-pits even though both the defender hands are clearly visible and is not holding.
Sung to the tune of "See my baby jive" (if your old enough)
"See my LLoydy Dive,
Pay my LLoydy Dive,
He hangs on to me and the whistle goes,
Wo-oh, wo-oh, wo-oh,
See my LLoydy Dive,
Pay a lazy Dive,
Every ump I meet sees him off his feet,
And he pays a Lloydy dive."
Plenty of other forwards use this con on the Umps but Lloydy has perfected it.
drewie_rama
22 Jul 2007, 22:59
While your stats a interesting they do not take into account where the frees were payed at what point in the game or whether they were legitimate free kicks.
Big difference between a free to a backman for a hold by a forward which is brought back after the ball has already entered the backmans forward line effectively penalising the defenders team and a free payed to a fullforward who's team is down 6 points and throws himself forward after trapping both the defenders arms in his arm-pits even though both the defender hands are clearly visible and is not holding.
Sung to the tune of "See my baby jive" (if your old enough)
"See my LLoydy Dive,
Pay my LLoydy Dive,
He hangs on to me and the whistle goes,
Wo-oh, wo-oh, wo-oh,
See my LLoydy Dive,
Pay a lazy Dive,
Every ump I meet sees him off his feet,
And he pays a Lloydy dive."
Plenty of other forwards use this con on the Umps but Lloydy has perfected it.
how many frees did he get? do remind me musical genius:p
Pie eyed
22 Jul 2007, 23:17
how many frees did he get? do remind me musical genius:p
Don't take it too seriously...I am commenting on the stats over quite a few years in the original post and couldn't resist to musical interlude.
Feel free to put the name of any forward in place of Lloydy as I wrote in my post.
I am just pointing out that the number of frees is not an accurate indicator of what effect they can have on a game...I am sure you will agree....
Most important is where, why and when.
If you have a look on the Dons Board you will see that I posted a "Well played Hard,Fast and Fair comment after the game. Although and I think you will also agree the umps put away the whistle for most of the third quarter...for both sides...
drewie_rama
22 Jul 2007, 23:55
Don't take it too seriously...I am commenting on the stats over quite a few years in the original post and couldn't resist to musical interlude.
Feel free to put the name of any forward in place of Lloydy as I wrote in my post.
I am just pointing out that the number of frees is not an accurate indicator of what effect they can have on a game...I am sure you will agree....
Most important is where, why and when.
If you have a look on the Dons Board you will see that I posted a "Well played Hard,Fast and Fair comment after the game. Although and I think you will also agree the umps put away the whistle for most of the third quarter...for both sides...
cheers was mostly taking the piss anyhow:D
yeah the maggots went ok yesterday, they paid the in the backs all day and were consistent at least in that regard.
as mentioned the worst decision of the day was the holding the ball against o'brien
Agreed free kick count means nothing and yesterday thankfully i dont remember too many goals being kicked from frees
lucas got 1, i think fraser may of got 1, apart from that, not many frees paid inside 50