View Full Version : Drafting skillful midfielders
David_Hilley#19
22 Jul 2007, 18:04
Perhaps it is time we question Adrian Dodoro abilty at drafting this era's player type. We have drafted to many brainless talls, with the exception of Paddy. Kep is not the smartest footballer, just look at Anzac Day. Bolton as every Essendon supporter knows has been useless. Perhaps we start drafting the selwoods over the Gumbys!!!
BomberAce7
22 Jul 2007, 18:10
Perhaps it is time we question Adrian Dodoro abilty at drafting this era's player type. We have drafted to many brainless talls, with the exception of Paddy. Kep is not the smartest footballer, just look at Anzac Day. Bolton as every Essendon supporter knows has been useless. Perhaps we start drafting the selwoods over the Gumbys!!!
We are behind most teams when it comes to the midfield & we have made a start at least with last years draft by getting Jetta, Hislop, Houli, Davey e.t.c but yes we need more no question to bolster our depth.
donsman4eva
22 Jul 2007, 18:19
Just as long as we dont get Veszpremi. I cant stand him. He is an arrogant prick.
BomberAce7
22 Jul 2007, 18:21
Just as long as we dont get Veszpremi. I cant stand him. He is an arrogant prick.
Who's he?
donsman4eva
22 Jul 2007, 18:23
He's midfielder for the northern knights. Hes is supposed to go mid to late in the first round. I played cricket with him for a year and he thought he was top shit. cant stand guys like that.
BomberAce7
22 Jul 2007, 18:26
He's midfielder for the northern knights. Hes is supposed to go mid to late in the first round. I played cricket with him for a year and he thought he was top shit. cant stand guys like that.
Have ya seen him play? Is he any good?
wasupwidat
22 Jul 2007, 18:31
if hes good draft him just restrict him in media
RED AND BLACK SOLDIER
22 Jul 2007, 18:44
He's midfielder for the northern knights. Hes is supposed to go mid to late in the first round. I played cricket with him for a year and he thought he was top shit. cant stand guys like that.
I thought he was more of an attacking half backer, and was only a part itme midfielder.
BurnleyBomber
22 Jul 2007, 19:14
if hes good draft him just restrict him in media
How does the media have anything to do with the price of fish in China?
If he's an arrogant prick then he's less likely to get along with the coaching staff and the other players.
On the flipside, arrogance might not matter anyway. It certainly didn't with arguably the greatest player of the modern era in Wayne Carey. No one can tell me he's not arrogant.
donsman4eva
22 Jul 2007, 19:27
Have ya seen him play? Is he any good?
Ive just seen him play in school footy, maybe year 9 and 10. He killed them there, but I havent seen him play for the knights.
wasupwidat
22 Jul 2007, 19:34
How does the media have anything to do with the price of fish in China?
If he's an arrogant prick then he's less likely to get along with the coaching staff and the other players.
On the flipside, arrogance might not matter anyway. It certainly didn't with arguably the greatest player of the modern era in Wayne Carey. No one can tell me he's not arrogant.
but then he wont turn out like aker
Perhaps it is time we question Adrian Dodoro abilty at drafting this era's player type. We have drafted to many brainless talls, with the exception of Paddy. Kep is not the smartest footballer, just look at Anzac Day. Bolton as every Essendon supporter knows has been useless. Perhaps we start drafting the selwoods over the Gumbys!!!
I hate people that tee off on someone without getting the facts right.
Dodoro wasnt responsible for drafting Bolton !!!!!
Perhaps it is time we question Adrian Dodoro abilty at drafting this era's player type. We have drafted to many brainless talls, with the exception of Paddy. Kep is not the smartest footballer, just look at Anzac Day. Bolton as every Essendon supporter knows has been useless. Perhaps we start drafting the selwoods over the Gumbys!!!
Bolton has been one of the more successful draft picks. 123 games is a massive success for any draftee.
The Dustbin
22 Jul 2007, 21:14
Bolton has been one of the more successful draft picks. 123 games is a massive success for any draftee.
I wouldn't say Bolton as been a massive success. That's getting a little carried away, don't you think. ;)
David_Hilley#19
22 Jul 2007, 21:18
If he wasn't around to draft Bolton then he has been a complete waste of time because he really hasn't gotten us any star player. We must consider a new style of drafting. Picking up talls later on in the draft. Hille was mid-forties and look how he has turned out. Let get some skillful fit midfielders and stop worrying about the keyposition players
Daytripper
22 Jul 2007, 21:21
If he wasn't around to draft Bolton then he has been a complete waste of time because he really hasn't gotten us any star player. We must consider a new style of drafting. Picking up talls later on in the draft. Hille was mid-forties and look how he has turned out. Let get some skillful fit midfielders and stop worrying about the keyposition players
I've been saying the same thing for two years now - although for different, specific reasons.
If he wasn't around to draft Bolton then he has been a complete waste of time because he really hasn't gotten us any star player. We must consider a new style of drafting. Picking up talls later on in the draft. Hille was mid-forties and look how he has turned out. Let get some skillful fit midfielders and stop worrying about the keyposition players
So you dont rate Ryder. You think Winderlich is an unskillfull midfielder. You think Stanton sucks. You say Nash hasnt got skills and you dont rate Hislop,Davey,and Houli ?
Seriously we took 5 midfielders in the last draft. How many more do you want them to draft.
I've been saying the same thing for two years now - although for different, specific reasons.
All the teams in the top 8 play 3 or 4 talls forward ;)
David_Hilley#19
22 Jul 2007, 21:39
So you dont rate Ryder. You think Winderlich is an unskillfull midfielder. You think Stanton sucks. You say Nash hasnt got skills and you dont rate Hislop,Davey,and Houli ?
Seriously we took 5 midfielders in the last draft. How many more do you want them to draft.
Where did i say that?? All i am saying is look at the top sides. All of them have a young star who is in contention for the brownlow. Essendon on the other hand do not. I am not saying that these guys are bad at all, in fact i rate most of them. But look at our current midfield, there is no Brownlow contender
We need to be serious, the oposition does not look at our midfield and see a real threat. Whereas Geelong, West Coast, Hawthorn, Collingwood, Adelaide, Port Adelaide, St Kilda and many more have at least one talented skillful midfielder, we have none!!! We must focus all our drafting skills on getting a Nick Dal Santo, Matt Priddis, Sammie Mitchel etc.
Daytripper
22 Jul 2007, 21:49
All the teams in the top 8 play 3 or 4 talls forward ;)
We've had 3 picks in the top 6 from the last 4 drafts and we've gone with a tall each time.
We've needed to mix it up a little in my opinion.
Look I hope you, Longy and co are all correct and everything turns out ok but to me all we end up with are the same type of players, playing the same position in a game that no longer suits taller players.
However when drafting players its impossible to know what position you'll be in the following season. For example would we have picked Paddy if we knew we were in line to pick either Gumbleton or Leunberger the following season ?
Its easy to be overly critical of a clubs drafting sometimes and hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Longy413
22 Jul 2007, 21:54
Look I hope you, Longy and co are all correct and everything turns out ok but to me all we end up with are the same type of players, playing the same position in a game that no longer suits taller players.
The game changes almost every year.
If Geelong win the flag, talls will be the next big thing. If it's West Coast, everyone will stay on the midfield bandwagon.
Blake, Ottens, Mooney, Ablett, Hawkins, Egan, Scarlett, Harley...
They're a tall side Geelong.
David_Hilley#19
22 Jul 2007, 22:05
I agree key position players are harder to find but what i have been trying to say is that we have the selection of talls Kepler, paddy, Gumby and Andrew Lee to name a few and now it is time we start drafting some first round pick midfielders.
Longy413
22 Jul 2007, 22:09
I agree key position players are harder to find but what i have been trying to say is that we have the selection of talls Kepler, paddy, Gumby and Andrew Lee to name a few and now it is time we start drafting some first round pick midfielders.
We've drafted midfielders in the first round the last two years.
Although Jetta was technically in the priority round.
Where did i say that?? All i am saying is look at the top sides. All of them have a young star who is in contention for the brownlow. Essendon on the other hand do not. I am not saying that these guys are bad at all, in fact i rate most of them. But look at our current midfield, there is no Brownlow contender
We need to be serious, the oposition does not look at our midfield and see a real threat. Whereas Geelong, West Coast, Hawthorn, Collingwood, Adelaide, Port Adelaide, St Kilda and many more have at least one talented skillful midfielder, we have none!!! We must focus all our drafting skills on getting a Nick Dal Santo, Matt Priddis, Sammie Mitchel etc.
Well that why i thought we drafted Jetta ,Hislop, Davey, Houli and Reimers last year. All pretty skillfull midifelders with reasonably good pace.We drafted Monfries as well with this role in mind but he hasnt done as well this year. He is still skillfull though.Same with Dempsey.
This year we look like having another shot at taking a decent mid with our first pick.
It is all very well praising Geelong for getting Selwood but it makes it a lot easier when you already have the player rated close to number 1 in the draft signed sealed and delivered with a third round pick.
We where a bit stiff , if they didnt change the priority rules we would have had Gumbleton and Selwood.
Seriously if you think that taking 5 midfielders in the last draft isnt doing something to adress our midfield problem then i dont know what is.
I agree key position players are harder to find but what i have been trying to say is that we have the selection of talls Kepler, paddy, Gumby and Andrew Lee to name a few and now it is time we start drafting some first round pick midfielders.
Lee was a second round pick behind Monfries (midfielder)who was our first round pick.
Kepler was taken at 6 but we also took Stanton (midfielder) first round at 13. Stanton is clearly better than Tenace who was our likely pick at 6 if we didnt take Bradley.
The year we drafted Ryder we also took Dempsey with our other first round pick.
We drafted 5 midfielders after Gumby. Somehow i dont see your argument stacking up.
Longy413
22 Jul 2007, 22:21
Kepler was taken at 6 but we also took Stanton (midfielder) first round at 13. Stanont is clearly better than Tenace who was our likely pick at 6 if we didnt take Bradley.
I forgot about those two.
So if we include Jetta as being in the first round, we've drafted a midfielder in the first round of the draft every year since 1996, with the excluding 1997 when we took Bolts and 1999 when we weren't in the first round.
RED AND BLACK SOLDIER
22 Jul 2007, 22:29
Well that why i thought we drafted Jetta ,Hislop, Davey, Houli and Reimers last year. All pretty skillfull midifelders with reasonably good pace.We drafted Monfries as well with this role in mind but he hasnt done as well this year. He is still skillfull though.Same with Dempsey.
This year we look like having another shot at taking a decent mid with our first pick.
It is all very well praising Geelong for getting Selwood but it makes it a lot easier when you already have the player rated close to number 1 in the draft signed sealed and delivered with a third round pick.
We where a bit stiff , if they didnt change the priority rules we would have had Gumbleton and Selwood.
Seriously if you think that taking 5 midfielders in the last draft isnt doing something to adress our midfield problem then i dont know what is.
Hislop, Houli and Jetta are the only ones i see becoming mids, the other 2 will probably play forward in the future. Jetta will play forward for a while though until he gets his stamina up to scratch, i'd probably expect to see him in the midfield in 09.
Hislop, Houli and Jetta are the only ones i see becoming mids, the other 2 will probably play forward in the future. Jetta will play forward for a while though until he gets his stamina up to scratch, i'd probably expect to see him in the midfield in 09.
Reimers was drafted to play midifeld . He has been playing mainly half back with some time on the wing for Bendigo.
There is also no reason why Davey cant play the run through role on the wing that Lovett plays. He already pushs well up to half back anyway.
Shane Hird
22 Jul 2007, 23:01
Lets have some serious suggestions on who we could target from another club..be it any type of player,except ruckman.
Was listening to the Melb game on radio yesterday for a minute and heard the commentor say that Brad Millar's career at Demen land is finshed after the performance he put in.
Backman...project player? Tough nut and has loads of experience. Could just need a change of club to put his career back in line.
Same as McPharlin from Freo. Still hasn't re-signed and is out of contract at years end. Put him in our backline and could also play forward.
Just some ideas anyway....I havn't got time to follow all the available players and know who's up for trade. We need some class injected into the side.. a proven quality player that just matbe needs a fresh start.
RED AND BLACK SOLDIER
22 Jul 2007, 23:18
Lets have some serious suggestions on who we could target from another club..be it any type of player,except ruckman.
Was listening to the Melb game on radio yesterday for a minute and heard the commentor say that Brad Millar's career at Demen land is finshed after the performance he put in.
Backman...project player? Tough nut and has loads of experience. Could just need a change of club to put his career back in line.
Same as McPharlin from Freo. Still hasn't re-signed and is out of contract at years end. Put him in our backline and could also play forward.
Just some ideas anyway....I havn't got time to follow all the available players and know who's up for trade. We need some class injected into the side.. a proven quality player that just matbe needs a fresh start.
Would love to have McPharlin at Essendon, but i don't think Freo would let it happen.
I'd love Essendon to go after Daniell Bell, he's an exceptional fast back pocketman and IMO is a great defender. This is a player who i would want Essendon to put into the most wanted category. Alongside a few young quality mids, maybe Sam Butler, Brent Prismall, Rischitelli, Swallow Reily and Knights.
donsman4eva
22 Jul 2007, 23:28
Not a huge fan of McPharlin, but I'd love to see Miller at Essendon. He just seems like a quicker, more skilled Solly. We also need a good midfielder. If we can draft 1 it woild be good, otherwise some of the players mentione by R+B soldier are a good fit. I think we will be able to get a good midfielder in the draft however, since Richmond, Carlton and probably Melbourne will be after KPP, and will all finish below us.
If we are going to discuss players we can pick up then we need to look at players we will be able to get cheaply. We havt got a lot of players we could trade that could genuinly attract quality players.
We probaly shouldnt mess around with our first round pick. There is a real chance of picking up a quality midfielder with it. There is a group of them including Cotchin, Plamer, Morton and Matsen that may well be available when we have our first pick. there is also a case for picking Rioli who is a good midfielder .
On top of this we will need to know what pick Daniher will go at and if we are going to pick him. I know the club/recruiters have kept a line of contact with him and seem keen on him. What we will have to evaluate is what is he worth ? can we afford to go with a second round pick ? Personally i hope we dont have to as i still think he is a later second rounder or third round pick.
That leaves us with maybe pick 2 and pick 4 for trade if we where to go that way. Then we have to look at players
McPhee seems to be the first mentioned. Im sure he is attractive to other clubs but what would his value be ? would they ask questions about why we signed him for 3 years at then end of 2006 and then put him up for trade one year later. Would he attract a second draft pick and Miller if Melbourne where interested ? Would we get a good enough player from that draft pick.
Who would we get for him in a straight swap ?
Lovett would be another who you could look at. He would have some value to other clubs.
I couldnt see us getting much for MJ , maybe a third or 4th round pick from someone but i dont think they will be lining up. Most would proably take a chance of pciking him in the PSD if they where really interested.
Ricky Dyson is another who would probably have some clubs looking but once again going with the above theme he wouldnt be able to attract any really big offers. Maybe 3rd or 4th round picks.
I wouldnt think that Bolton and Lee will attract anything.
Johns may atract some small interest.
Lonergan wouldnt attarct a trade unless someone was really keen on him. You would simply just draft him late or rookie draft him.
Bradleys stocks wouldnt be extremely high. Not many clubs would be lining up for players who are struggling with their skills and have proven to be ordinary under pressure in the back half.
Im not really excited about trade time at all as i just dont see what we have that will attract much. We are more than likely to make a few minor trades if any.
If we could get Miller for cheap i would seriously look at him.
kelvin_sheedy
23 Jul 2007, 11:54
What about Luke Power?
There was talk about him coming back last year.....
Maybe Brisbane would like to deal seeing he still has a bit of value.
kelvin_sheedy
23 Jul 2007, 12:00
And FWIW if Carlton get the priority pick and say we finish 10th-8th I think we should trade away our first pick because the cream of the midfielders will be gone.
Trade for a skillful midfielder.
donsman4eva
23 Jul 2007, 12:17
There seem to be a few midfielders who could push for top 10 selections this year. Also, of the teams that are finishing below us, alot would be looking at KPP, so a good midfielder or 2 might slip down the order a bit. But if we could trade for a ready made, young midfielder, I wouldnt be against it.
Darealrath
23 Jul 2007, 13:07
McPhee seems to be the first mentioned. Im sure he is attractive to other clubs but what would his value be ? would they ask questions about why we signed him for 3 years at then end of 2006 and then put him up for trade one year later. Would he attract a second draft pick and Miller if Melbourne where interested ?
I think we could get a mid to late first round pick for McPhee. If we could I'd do that trade. Then if our own pick is not in the first half dozen and there is a real standout midfielder we want who we know won't drop to us I'd seriously consider trading our 2 picks for 1 higher up in the draft.
We desperately need a gun midfielder. Desperately. I like Watson, Stanton, Winderlich and Nash and Monfries, Houli, Hislop and Jetta have all shown potential but I can't see any of them becoming a multiple AA type. It is killing me watching Selwood because he is just what we need - classy, skillful, good inside and out and hard at it. We don't have any that has that all round game. Gumby might turn out very good but modern footy is so much about the midfield that he'd need to be a star to justify skipping over Selwood. Bit extreme examples but carlton have Fev firing and are still crap whereas WC have had a rubbish forward line and still dominate. The difference is the midfield.
RED AND BLACK SOLDIER
23 Jul 2007, 13:26
I seriously think we should try and get Daniell Bell, i think Sheeds was interested in him a a year or 2 back i think, unless it was just rumours (i cant remember exactly). I'd love to see something like this happen McPhee and 3rd rounder for Bell and Miller. Ant, what do you think Bell would be worth, do you rate him?
Daytripper
23 Jul 2007, 13:30
I seriously think we should try and get Daniell Bell, i think Sheeds was interested in him a a year or 2 back i think, unless it was just rumours (i cant remember exactly). I'd love to see something like this happen McPhee and 3rd rounder for Bell and Miller. Ant, what do you think Bell would be worth, do you rate him?
Surely you can't be serious ?
McPhee is worth about pick 4-8 in this draft.
Thank god some posters here don't have any say over our list management.
dave_27
23 Jul 2007, 13:54
Same as McPharlin from Freo. Still hasn't re-signed and is out of contract at years end. Put him in our backline and could also play forward.
The bloke is over rated and struggles with his foot skills.
No thanks.
RED AND BLACK SOLDIER
23 Jul 2007, 13:58
Surely you can't be serious ?
McPhee is worth about pick 4-8 in this draft.
Thank god some posters here don't have any say over our list management.
Deadly serious. Bell is better than McPhee, he's faster, better disposal and a better defender than McPhee (IMO) and is what we need in our team to replace MJ. So he'd be worth about the same as McPhee, so how exactly would we be getting ripped off?
Boris_Bewick
23 Jul 2007, 14:06
Surely you can't be serious ?
McPhee is worth about pick 4-8 in this draft.
Thank god some posters here don't have any say over our list management.
Couldn't agree more.
Miller is one of the most underperforming players in the league.
Wouldn't mind a look at Daniel Bell, but only for relatively cheap. He has taken steps this year so would be worth more than previous seasons.
Some of the McPhee trade offers mentioned are ridiculous.
Boris_Bewick
23 Jul 2007, 14:10
Deadly serious. Bell is better than McPhee, he's faster, better disposal and a better defender than McPhee (IMO) and is what we need in our team to replace MJ. So he'd be worth about the same as McPhee, so how exactly would we be getting ripped off?
Surely you can't be deadly serious.
McPhee is an AA best and fairest winner. Taller, more athletic, more versatile, more everything than Bell. Give me one game to watch that would convince me that Bell is better than McPhee. I guarantee I could find many better games by McPhee.
Bell is an okay player, yet to prove himself, only a couple of years younger than McPhee. He's had an okay year, but McPhee has had great years before, and is having a good year and is not even near his peak of what he can do.
If he is what we need to replace MJ, Then why would you want to trade McPhee for him?
Daytripper
23 Jul 2007, 14:13
Deadly serious. Bell is better than McPhee, he's faster, better disposal and a better defender than McPhee (IMO) and is what we need in our team to replace MJ. So he'd be worth about the same as McPhee, so how exactly would we be getting ripped off?
Daniel Bell is about the equivalent type player to Jay Nash.
Compared to McPhee he is poor overhead, has no 'hurt' factor and from what I have seen of him can't be moved forward. He may look to have better disposal but thats only because he gets a lot of uncontested ball. McPhee does a lot of his work in traffic therefore its harder to pinpoint passes 100% of the time. That said, he isn't that bad anyway.
How is Bell a better defender ?
Who have been his direct opponents this season ?
You need to quantify some of these statements.
McPhee is 24, Bell is 22.
When Fletcher and Michael retire can you please advise who will be our experienced older head in defense ?
McPhee is worth about 5 Daniel Bell's and why you would want Brad Miller is anybody's guess. He is a poor mans Josh Kennedy (and thats saying something).
Darealrath
23 Jul 2007, 14:24
Miller is one of the most underperforming players in the league.
Agree. He's in a side crying out for a CHF or a key back and hasn't been able to cut it. He wouldn't improve us at all.
Miller is a terrible player.
We stuffed up 2 drafts (2000 & 2001), but otherwise we've recruited pretty well. We've gone for plenty of mids with top 20 picks...Rama, McVeigh, Davies (oops), Harvey (oops again), Winders, Stanton, Monfries, Dempsey, Jetta and Hislop. Rama would be our no. 1 midfielder today if not for his health issues.
Geelong are the current benchmark. Their best midfielders are Ablett, Bartel, Chapman, Corey, Ling and Selwood. All except Selwood have played 100+ games and are in the prime of their careers. In a couple of years, our midfield should be great. Right now our midfield lacks depth & experience and only time can improve the situation.
Stanton has struggled since his ankle injury and Winders and Hird have been missing through injury. Davey's speed and defensive pressure has been missed badly as well. We've lost games because we haven't been able to cover those loses. Dempsey has missed a vital development year. All except Hird are part of our long term future. Slattery will be a great tagger, but will have to learn to win more of the ball. Jobe has been sensational in the middle 3rd of the season. Hislop, Jetta and Houli have shown good signs in their 1st season. To me, the future of our midfield looks bright and from a future needs perspective, Gumby was the right choice (as good as Selwood is).
kelvin_sheedy
23 Jul 2007, 16:25
^^^^ Well said Jex.
I agree that in time our midfield will be good but astute drafting can fast forward that. ;)
We do have some pices in place, with Watson, Winderlich, Stanton, Depmsey, Nash ect we have a combination of skill and pace and natural ball winning ability, unfortunately their experince ranges from 2-50 games, none really near their prime, and we still need to add some hard runners
RED AND BLACK SOLDIER
23 Jul 2007, 16:53
Daniel Bell is about the equivalent type player to Jay Nash.
Compared to McPhee he is poor overhead, has no 'hurt' factor and from what I have seen of him can't be moved forward. He may look to have better disposal but thats only because he gets a lot of uncontested ball. McPhee does a lot of his work in traffic therefore its harder to pinpoint passes 100% of the time. That said, he isn't that bad anyway.
How is Bell a better defender ?
Who have been his direct opponents this season ?
You need to quantify some of these statements.
McPhee is 24, Bell is 22.
When Fletcher and Michael retire can you please advise who will be our experienced older head in defense ?
McPhee is worth about 5 Daniel Bell's and why you would want Brad Miller is anybody's guess. He is a poor mans Josh Kennedy (and thats saying something).
I disagree with you, Nash is unaccountablle, where as Bell is quite good at stopping his opponent, simple. Bad comparison
When iv'e seen him play, he spoilt nearly everything and was always right behind his man because he is so quick. I can remember the game when he played on Lucas and was doing a pretty damn good job until he went off injured. I have to agree with you, McPhee's marking is better but IMO he's got most other areas covered. McPhee was good on Thomas one the w/e, he seemed to be right behind Thomas spoiling everything that came his way, and i was quite suprised because i havn't seen that from him in a while. Im sure Bell could be moved onto the wing and use his awsum pace there if he wanted to, but if managed to get him i'd rather he played ion the back pocket where he plays his best football. Does McPhee eveb have any "hurt factor" anymore? Well i guess he must, turning it over the would hurt us as a team alot eh. As long as Bell stopped his opponent that's all that matter in my eyes.
As for Miller, although he is playing pretty poorly ATM, if Melbourne wanted to get rid of him then i don't think it'd be such a bad idea getting him for a late pick and see if he could turn things around at a new club. It's not like i'd want Essendon to go out of their way to get him, but if we were in the situation where we could get him for near nothing it wouldn't be such a bad idea.
Pumper Rubberfunk
23 Jul 2007, 16:58
Agree Selwood although the whole world now knows he is a ripper, could have been our choice opposed to another tall in Gumbelton. Picking Selwood would not have been a huge risk as we already know his Bro's could play a little, and just like buying a Danehill at some stage you will always get your money back ..I thought we could have held off for a Gumby as Lloyd and Lucas have another 3-4 very good years left..
Surely you can't be serious ?
McPhee is worth about pick 4-8 in this draft.
Thank god some posters here don't have any say over our list management.
I dont think he is , there are some midfielders in this draft that will go between 1 and 15 or so that i belive will be better than McPhee.
McPhee knows how to find the footy and can mark well but he hasnt got an extremely quick footy brain and has struggled to fill specific tasks he has been given at times.
I wouldnt see anyone giving up anything before pick 12 for McPhee.
And FWIW if Carlton get the priority pick and say we finish 10th-8th I think we should trade away our first pick because the cream of the midfielders will be gone.
Trade for a skillful midfielder.
If you have a pick in the first 12 you will get a get a good midfielder. Carlton are not going to pick two mids given they have taken Gibbs and Murphy at number 1 in the last two drafts. Richmond look like they will go tall first.
Even with Carlton getting a priority pick in round 1 we will still be looking at around pick 7 to 10 if we finish just in or just out of the 8 .
Besides how many skillfull midfielders are there that will be looking for a new club or that clubs will want to trade ?
What about Luke Power?
There was talk about him coming back last year.....
Maybe Brisbane would like to deal seeing he still has a bit of value.
Talk was all it was.
kelvin_sheedy
23 Jul 2007, 19:28
If you have a pick in the first 12 you will get a get a good midfielder. Carlton are not going to pick two mids given they have taken Gibbs and Murphy at number 1 in the last two drafts. Richmond look like they will go tall first.
Even with Carlton getting a priority pick in round 1 we will still be looking at around pick 7 to 10 if we finish just in or just out of the 8 .
Besides how many skillfull midfielders are there that will be looking for a new club or that clubs will want to trade ?
Not necessarily. Look at the previous drafts and you see a Bartel and Selwood there but a lot of hit and miss. Both of those in strong drafts.
It's probably a 50% chance you get a 100 gamer and a 10% chance you get a gun.
Carlton will take a Ruckman + mid. Richmond will take the next best and that will be another mid - they have to cover for the Tambling mistake. Melbourne will do the same.
From what I've read this draft is short on KPP and tall talent so the cream of the midfielders will get picked off before we have a pick.
I say put our No. 1 pick out there and see what we get in return.
Not necessarily. Look at the previous drafts and you see a Bartel and Selwood there but a lot of hit and miss. Both of those in strong drafts.
It's probably a 50% chance you get a 100 gamer and a 10% chance you get a gun.
Carlton will take a Ruckman + mid. Richmond will take the next best and that will be another mid - they have to cover for the Tambling mistake. Melbourne will do the same.
From what I've read this draft is short on KPP and tall talent so the cream of the midfielders will get picked off before we have a pick.
I say put our No. 1 pick out there and see what we get in return.
Well i am not basing my opinion on what i have read. I am basing it on the fact that i have seen most of the players touted as top 20 picks play 4 or more games.This years draft hasnt got the depth of talls that last years draft but there are several talls that are in the mix for top 15.Guys like Kreuzer , Henderson,Rance,McEvoy and Collier have all been mention as possible picks inside the top 15. The we have the fact that there is Cotchin ,Morton ,Masten ,Rioli ,Palmer ,Selwood and Ebert for midfielders .Trust me there will be good midfielders left when we have a pick. Yes the draft can be hit and miss but so can trading for players who are not excatly fitting in with other clubs. Lets face it how many clubs have got really good value by giving up first round picks compared with picking up decent young players?
Daytripper
23 Jul 2007, 19:40
I dont think he is , there are some midfielders in this draft that will go between 1 and 15 or so that i belive will be better than McPhee.
McPhee knows how to find the footy and can mark well but he hasnt got an extremely quick footy brain and has struggled to fill specific tasks he has been given at times.
I wouldnt see anyone giving up anything before pick 12 for McPhee.
Mate, as you know the draft is very hit and miss.
There are no guarantees.
Some names of midfielders drafted between 4 and 12 between 2002 and 2005.
Jarrad McVeigh, Steven Salopek, Luke Brennan, Farren Ray, Raph Clarke, Kane Tenace, David Trotter, Ryley Dunn, Colin Sylvia, Richard Tambling, Jordan Russell, Chris Egan, Adam Thomsen, Danny Meyer, Jarred Oakley Nicholls.
I would not trade McPhee heads up for any of them (except for maybe Salopek).
There's a lot of failures there and a lot of good, ordinary footballers who couldn't hold a candle to McPhee.
David_Hilley#19
23 Jul 2007, 19:53
Well i am not basing my opinion on what i have read. I am basing it on the fact that i have seen most of the players touted as top 20 picks play 4 or more games.This years draft hasnt got the depth of talls that last years draft but there are several talls that are in the mix for top 15.Guys like Kreuzer , Henderson,Rance,McEvoy and Collier have all been mention as possible picks inside the top 15. The we have the fact that there is Cotchin ,Morton ,Masten ,Rioli ,Palmer ,Selwood and Ebert for midfielders .Trust me there will be good midfielders left when we have a pick. Yes the draft can be hit and miss but so can trading for players who are not excatly fitting in with other clubs. Lets face it how many clubs have got really good value by giving up first round picks compared with picking up decent young players?
Very true there should be a couple of good midfielders left over with guys like the talls you have mentioned(BTW Kreuzer is as good as the hype he is getting. I have seen him play few times and certainly shows very good signs as a tall). It would not be worth trading our top draft pick for a player at another club given that there will most likely be some good midfielders left by the time we get a choice.
Lee was a second round pick behind Monfries (midfielder)who was our first round pick.
Kepler was taken at 6 but we also took Stanton (midfielder) first round at 13. Stanton is clearly better than Tenace who was our likely pick at 6 if we didnt take Bradley.
The year we drafted Ryder we also took Dempsey with our other first round pick.
We drafted 5 midfielders after Gumby. Somehow i dont see your argument stacking up.
I thought we would have taken Brock McLean. We were pretty keen on him weren't we?? :confused:
Mate, as you know the draft is very hit and miss.
There are no guarantees.
Some names of midfielders drafted between 4 and 12 between 2002 and 2005.
Jarrad McVeigh, Steven Salopek, Luke Brennan, Farren Ray, Raph Clarke, Kane Tenace, David Trotter, Ryley Dunn, Colin Sylvia, Richard Tambling, Jordan Russell, Chris Egan, Adam Thomsen, Danny Meyer, Jarred Oakley Nicholls.
I would not trade McPhee heads up for any of them (except for maybe Salopek).
There's a lot of failures there and a lot of good, ordinary footballers who couldn't hold a candle to McPhee.
Seriously i think you are letting your faith in McPhee blind you a bit . He has got some serious question marks on him. Injury or not he hasnt done a lot in the last 3 years. He has played some better footy this year but he hasnt stepped up to be one of our genuine leaders . How many games has he had since 2004 that he has genuinly stared and been the one player who has been the difference between winning and losing ?
He has been described in several quarters as not being a very smart footballer and i have heard that one of our assistants described him the same way.
I thought we would have taken Brock McLean. We were pretty keen on him weren't we?? :confused:
We may well have been but he went at pick 5 and we had pick 6. Cant draft someone who has already been taken ;)
Longy413
23 Jul 2007, 20:19
Some names of midfielders drafted between 4 and 12 between 2002 and 2005.
Jarrad McVeigh, Steven Salopek, Luke Brennan, Farren Ray, Raph Clarke, Kane Tenace, David Trotter, Ryley Dunn, Colin Sylvia, Richard Tambling, Jordan Russell, Chris Egan, Adam Thomsen, Danny Meyer, Jarred Oakley Nicholls.
Get him!!!
RED AND BLACK SOLDIER
23 Jul 2007, 20:23
I havn't seen that much of Trotter Longy, what do you see in him and why do you want him at Essendon?
Bolton has been one of the more successful draft picks. 123 games is a massive success for any draftee.
Perhaps not a massive success, but Bolts would probably rate around the fringe of the top 20 picks in that draft in hindsight which isn't too bad.
We may have missed out on some stars, but at least we got a servicebale player out of it. It wasn't the blunder a lot of people make it out to be.
David_Hilley#19
23 Jul 2007, 20:29
Perhaps not a massive success, but Bolts would probably rate around the fringe of the top 20 picks in that draft in hindsight which isn't too bad.
We may have missed out on some stars, but at least we got a servicebale player out of it. It wasn't the blunder a lot of people make it out to be.
If you look at some of the players selected behind him he certainly wasn;t the best pick.
But you can see why he was chosen; he's tall and is a brilliant athlete
Longy413
23 Jul 2007, 20:38
I havn't seen that much of Trotter Longy, what do you see in him and why do you want him at Essendon?
Tallish, skillful midfielder.
He's had some injury problems and is bound to come cheap. If not free.
But he's got talent, in a weak draft he'd be worth looking at. If he was 17 again, he'd go top five in this draft on his junior form.
He can also play forward, good on the lead and has good hands.
David_Hilley#19
23 Jul 2007, 21:51
Tallish, skillful midfielder.
He's had some injury problems and is bound to come cheap. If not free.
But he's got talent, in a weak draft he'd be worth looking at. If he was 17 again, he'd go top five in this draft on his junior form.
He can also play forward, good on the lead and has good hands.
How old is he now?
VanDerHaar
23 Jul 2007, 21:53
Dodoro is not to blame, Sheeds has always said that KPP's are hard to find and midfielders are a dime a dozen.....!!
Longy413
23 Jul 2007, 21:56
How old is he now?
Twenty-one.
RED AND BLACK SOLDIER
23 Jul 2007, 22:00
All the guys on the Kanga's board think he may be delisted (but hoping he isn't), so you may be right, we could get him relatively cheap.
Daytripper
24 Jul 2007, 08:15
Tallish, skillful midfielder.
He's had some injury problems and is bound to come cheap. If not free.
But he's got talent, in a weak draft he'd be worth looking at. If he was 17 again, he'd go top five in this draft on his junior form.
He can also play forward, good on the lead and has good hands.
Would consider him in the PSD.
I don't mind the club taking a punt on 21 and 22yo's.
Some footballers develop later than others.
Especially if they don't cost much. We want to win games, and a good 21 yo would help more than a good 18 yo
Would consider him in the PSD.
I don't mind the club taking a punt on 21 and 22yo's.
Some footballers develop later than others.
Would much rather be taking him with pick 5 or 6 in the national draft than some of the TAC Cup boys. :thumbsu:
Daytripper
24 Jul 2007, 09:47
Would much rather be taking him with pick 5 or 6 in the national draft than some of the TAC Cup boys. :thumbsu:
I assume you meant our pick 5 or 6 - not 5 or 6 overall.
If so might be worth a punt as pick 50 or higher.
David_Hilley#19
24 Jul 2007, 09:53
Would consider him in the PSD.
I don't mind the club taking a punt on 21 and 22yo's.
Some footballers develop later than others.
Alwyn Davey was 22 and look how he has turned out. I agree there is no real problem with a 21 year old.
I assume you meant our pick 5 or 6 - not 5 or 6 overall.
If so might be worth a punt as pick 50 or higher.
Yes sorry :o 5th or 6th rounder at the national draft :thumbsu:
tomcitizen
24 Jul 2007, 10:33
Trotter is absolutely worth a punt. He's a lovely kick, and would fit in well to the midfield gang.
Freo's Ryley Dunn is another who's very talented and has had a horrible run with injuries. Contracted til the end of next year but if his luck keeps up, he could be another one who's worth adding to the mix. He's a Vic boy and supported the Dons as a kid.
Trotter is absolutely worth a punt. He's a lovely kick, and would fit in well to the midfield gang.
Freo's Ryley Dunn is another who's very talented and has had a horrible run with injuries. Contracted til the end of next year but if his luck keeps up, he could be another one who's worth adding to the mix. He's a Vic boy and supported the Dons as a kid.
I am a wrap for Dunn's ability but i have serious reservations over the fact that he is extremly injury prone.
David_Hilley#19
24 Jul 2007, 11:33
Trotter is absolutely worth a punt. He's a lovely kick, and would fit in well to the midfield gang.
Freo's Ryley Dunn is another who's very talented and has had a horrible run with injuries. Contracted til the end of next year but if his luck keeps up, he could be another one who's worth adding to the mix. He's a Vic boy and supported the Dons as a kid.
What type of injuries has he had??
What type of injuries has he had??
Knee,hammy and collarbone just to name a few.
tomcitizen
24 Jul 2007, 16:05
I actually played with Ryley as a junior and he was never an injury whore then. He's a really solidly built player - has pace and a good leap, too - and I reckon his injuries are more bad luck than anything else.
I don't reckon his body is the twig sort that gives way easily; if anything his hardness at the ball may see him cop more than average. He played the first two senior matches immediately after being drafted (in 04) since his body was ready for it straight away.
I reckon Given the talent (and the fact that it's a bad run with injuries as opposed to a body that can't keep up) he is worth looking at.
It's all hypothetical anyway, since he's a year away from being out of contract.
kelvin_sheedy
24 Jul 2007, 16:24
I said this in another thread but if we don't trade this year and get some ready made players to add depth to the midfield we'll struggle to play finals in the next 3 years.
I said this in another thread but if we don't trade this year and get some ready made players to add depth to the midfield we'll struggle to play finals in the next 3 years.
Like Campo and Heff hey?
We lack a Hodge/Judd/Ablett in our midfield right at the moment but by 2009 it could be anything. The hard runner in stanton, established, skillful, clearance player in Watson plus the speed of winderlich are already the foundations. Add in the fact that we will most likely have at least one of JJ, Campo, or Pev to add experience. Players like Nash, Hislop, Houli, Dempsey, Jetta, Lovett, plus our first draft pick this year which is liekly to be a mid, are where our midfield is going to come from. If we trade for another ready made depth player it will only take away a position for one of these youngsters.
Trading for a young midfielder such as Prismall could be a good move but our finals aspirations hardly rest on this possibility.
kelvin_sheedy
24 Jul 2007, 16:57
Like Campo and Heff hey?
We lack a Hodge/Judd/Ablett in our midfield right at the moment but by 2009 it could be anything. The hard runner in stanton, established, skillful, clearance player in Watson plus the speed of winderlich are already the foundations. Add in the fact that we will most likely have at least one of JJ, Campo, or Pev to add experience. Players like Nash, Hislop, Houli, Dempsey, Jetta, Lovett, plus our first draft pick this year which is liekly to be a mid, are where our midfield is going to come from. If we trade for another ready made depth player it will only take away a position for one of these youngsters.
Trading for a young midfielder such as Prismall could be a good move it our finals aspirations hardly rest on this possibility.
Campo and Heff are the problems along with JJ, Dyson and Pev.
We need to add a player in the 20-25 age group that will push the likes of JJ and Pev out..... Prismall is one, Brent Reilly another.
Our finals aspirations this year have been dealt a blow because Hird, Winderlich, Davey, Stanton and the like have suffered injuries and the replacements were not up to it.
The older champions will not get better next year. Hird will be gone. Pev and JJ will be on their last legs. It's a bit much expecting Houli, Hislop, Dempsey, Jetta to come in and provide that support.
It's basically trade or we'll be another version of Richmond.
Campo and Heff are the problems along with JJ, Dyson and Pev.
I was being sarcastic sorry should have used the ;). Campo and Heff were brought in to add to the depth of our midfield, much like what you're suggesting. As you can see it hasn't worked and most people here are outraged whenever they are selected.
The older champions will not get better next year. Hird will be gone. Pev and JJ will be on their last legs. It's a bit much expecting Houli, Hislop, Dempsey, Jetta to come in and provide that support.
You said we need to trade to make the finals in the next three years. I don't see why it is ridiculous to expect kids a few of the four you mentioned to be a part of our midfield by 2009, and definitely by 2010. In addition there is Nash who is starting to show why he is so highly rated, and even Dyson who has shown some improvement recently, although your thoughts on him are clear. Hocking has shown promise from our rookie list as well. The loss of Hird will hurt but our three best midfielders in stanton, watson, and winderlich all have masses of improvement to go.
Trades for superstar midfielders just dont happen that much anymore, and while it may be possible to get one young mid who is alright like Prismall it really isn't going to be what will gain us a finals place.
Wahooti Fandango
24 Jul 2007, 17:14
I reckon Jarrod McVeigh would be a good get if we could offer something decent to Sydney. The fact that his brother plays for us may also be an advantage.
RED AND BLACK SOLDIER
24 Jul 2007, 17:32
I reckon Jarrod McVeigh would be a good get if we could offer something decent to Sydney. The fact that his brother plays for us may also be an advantage.
What/where would we use him in the team?
dave_27
24 Jul 2007, 17:33
tagger.
Wahooti Fandango
24 Jul 2007, 17:38
What/where would we use him in the team?
He could be used as a tagger, but I reckon also has the potential to win plenty of the ball (he has a massive tank) at the clearances and even play up forward ( a bit like his brother).
RED AND BLACK SOLDIER
24 Jul 2007, 17:42
tagger.
But that's Slatts position ATM, and if we need a 2nd tagger/backup we can just use M.McVeigh. Surely we wouldn't use 2 taggers in the one game, we have to do some attacking through the middle.
But that's Slatts position ATM, and if we need a 2nd tagger/backup we can just use M.McVeigh. Surely we wouldn't use 2 taggers in the one game, we have to do some attacking through the middle.
Amazingly against Collingwood, we had Didak, Swan and even Thomas covered but the pies still had Davis up their sleeve to slot through 4 goals for the arvo.
In some cases 2 taggers won't cut it.
KING-JAMES
24 Jul 2007, 17:58
I thought McVeigh played his best game for Sydney on the weekend. Maybe if he played at a club that gavce him more freedom he could excel. At Sydney he plays under that strict get numbers around the ball gameplan.
I thought McVeigh played his best game for Sydney on the weekend. Maybe if he played at a club that gavce him more freedom he could excel. At Sydney he plays under that strict get numbers around the ball gameplan.
And that was part of the reason why collingwood easily accounted for us in the first half
J.McVeigh is ok, but i'm not sure if he is that good
David_Hilley#19
24 Jul 2007, 18:48
as i said in a different thread: What about young colin Sylivia he goes hard at the ball. Skillful, and can take a good grab.
bomberandy
24 Jul 2007, 19:12
Trotter is absolutely worth a punt. He's a lovely kick, and would fit in well to the midfield gang.
Freo's Ryley Dunn is another who's very talented and has had a horrible run with injuries. Contracted til the end of next year but if his luck keeps up, he could be another one who's worth adding to the mix. He's a Vic boy and supported the Dons as a kid.
Reckon we could get Dunn for Bradley or Johns? Maybe going back home would help Johns or Bradley
J.Hetfield
24 Jul 2007, 19:52
Reckon we could get Dunn for Bradley or Johns? Maybe going back home would help Johns or Bradley
Wouldnt do that trade...
We need to poach Rivers or M.Johnson or Mundy.. Get some good defensive talls. Staker would be nice but it wont happen. Would add another forward dimension tho..
David_Hilley#19
24 Jul 2007, 22:27
Wouldnt do that trade...
We need to poach Rivers or M.Johnson or Mundy.. Get some good defensive talls. Staker would be nice but it wont happen. Would add another forward dimension tho..
Our backline is not so much our weakness it is one of our stronger points. If we are going to trade then we should look at midfielders!!
RED AND BLACK SOLDIER
24 Jul 2007, 22:33
Our backline is not so much our weakness it is one of our stronger points. If we are going to trade then we should look at midfielders!!
In a few years it probably won't be with Fletch and Mal retiring.
David_Hilley#19
25 Jul 2007, 09:55
In a few years it probably won't be with Fletch and Mal retiring.
Paddy and co. look like they will be able to cover our backline but we will nedd others!!
RED AND BLACK SOLDIER
25 Jul 2007, 17:03
Paddy and co. look like they will be able to cover our backline but we will nedd others!!
Of course, and to me, it doesn't really look like we've got many decent options to replace them. That's why we will have to trade for one or get one in this years draft or the next and hope they come on quickly.