View Full Version : Andrew Raines
Realistic Tiger
22 Jul 2007, 21:59
Was it just me or did anyone else notice that every player that Raines played on today was suddenly the focus of Ports F50 entries. Raines started on Motlop and he had a couple early, then Raines went onto Ebert and then he became the focus up forward. From then on everytime he swapped between those 2, they were again focused on. Maybe the time has come to move young Andy from the backline to the middle.
It seems that opposition coaches are aware that Andy likes to run and create from the backline but because of the pressure he is under when doing this they instruct his opponent to start moving towards the goals once Raines gets the ball because of the inevitable turnover that will occur. Once this happens Raines is that far out of position that he can't get back to force a contest. Surely we have a better defensive options that we can play down back that are going to make sure their opponent does not get a sniff first and then look at creating options second.
Deledio2Tambling
22 Jul 2007, 22:08
He has 0 defensive skills, and his disposal is woeful. Anyone else notice how he always puts his teammates under unneccessary pressure with hospital passes or silly handballs?
Madtiger2006
22 Jul 2007, 22:08
Was it just me or did anyone else notice that every player that Raines played on today was suddenly the focus of Ports F50 entries. Raines started on Motlop and he had a couple early, then Raines went onto Ebert and then he became the focus up forward. From then on everytime he swapped between those 2, they were again focused on. Maybe the time has come to move young Andy from the backline to the middle.
It seems that opposition coaches are aware that Andy likes to run and create from the backline but because of the pressure he is under when doing this they instruct his opponent to start moving towards the goals once Raines gets the ball because of the inevitable turnover that will occur. Once this happens Raines is that far out of position that he can't get back to force a contest. Surely we have a better defensive options that we can play down back that are going to make sure their opponent does not get a sniff first and then look at creating options second.
Casserley should be our future running defender
krustyman
22 Jul 2007, 22:16
wallace got his matchups wrong, motlop got a few lucky frees in the first quarter, the whole backline was in disarray and ebert was too strong for king. mcguane appeared to be loose man in defense and williams interchanging the forwards and they was lost when the new one come on.
Parabola
22 Jul 2007, 22:18
It's very true and I pray that somehow TW sees this post and either moves Andy to the wing or forward flank. He could be a very damaging long distance goal kicker with his pace running inside attacking 50.
Remember that goal he kicked from outside 50 last year, beautiful:thumbsu:
itsintheblood
22 Jul 2007, 22:19
raines has gone backwards this year with his crap decision making and crap disposal.
He has 0 defensive skills, and his disposal is woeful. Anyone else notice how he always puts his teammates under unneccessary pressure with hospital passes or silly handballs?
Been doing it all year.
Unfortunatly there isn't much to replace him with down back.
nugget_12
22 Jul 2007, 22:42
andrew raines should be playing in the midfield or as a winger who plays as another midfielder.
its time to develope someone like JON as the running back pocket.
I realise JON isn't exactly one of the best on our list but he has the height to play the position aswell as the speed to run out of the backline.
That is after all the reason we got rid of Andy Kellaway isn't it?
CoggaRules
22 Jul 2007, 22:44
NAB rising star...Pearce...and second Raines....Bwahaahaaaa......what a joke....one cruises like a rolls royce doing party tricks at will..the other doesnt have a clue....what has happened to this kid.....every time he gets it....its another comedy capers moment. See player x oh...i have to handpass it to him...but wait..brain must say, dont do it Andrew...there is opposition player right there and it means JS to the cause.. because teamate will get tackled immediately. But handball is given. Like...its totally brainless..cant understand WTF he is thinking...but it borders on the ludicrous when it just keeps happening ..;)
YellowandBlackBlood
22 Jul 2007, 22:55
YEAH, I've noticed he has developed this habit of going for a run, then suddenly handballing to the side to someone flatfooted and about to be collared. He should just take a few steps and roost the ball long to a player that has made position 50m away downfield. Like most of our players, he lacks vision. This is compounded by the fact we don't run hard enough when we have the ball to create options, as well as not running hard enough when we don't have the ball. All in all our work ethic is nowhere near the top sides. Only Melbourne and Carlton rival us in that area and surprise, surprise, look where they are on the ladder.
jumpinjimmy
22 Jul 2007, 23:15
Steady now everyone. It wasn't long ago when one and all were singing his praises. He's a bit 'punch drunk' at the moment with whats been going on this year, but aren't we all.:o
Bojangles17
22 Jul 2007, 23:17
raines needs to be played on the wing/anywhere....he's now being exposed in the defence dragged deep within the oppositions F50 and shows as much resistance as the French in WWII...he needs to add some tricks and fast or he'll be joining some chums at Coburg:eek:
CoggaRules
22 Jul 2007, 23:20
yeah he better get it together and quick as you say...because its looking like Stephen Ryan take 2.
Rookie of the year first year of his career.....dud after third. And Andrew is now at dud status the way he is playing.;)
tigers71
22 Jul 2007, 23:26
raines has gone backwards this year with his crap decision making and crap disposal.
Could not even do beautiful kicks in the warm up. Maybe he has many choices and does not which ones to take. Hes decision making and kicking is a disgrace. Maybe hes old man could get a game now?
needs a spell along with 15 other blokes
tigers71
22 Jul 2007, 23:36
needs a spell along with 15 other blokes
In six weeks the whole club will get a spell :thumbsu:
tony_montana
22 Jul 2007, 23:37
Was it just me or did anyone else notice that every player that Raines played on today was suddenly the focus of Ports F50 entries. Raines started on Motlop and he had a couple early, then Raines went onto Ebert and then he became the focus up forward. From then on everytime he swapped between those 2, they were again focused on. Maybe the time has come to move young Andy from the backline to the middle.
It seems that opposition coaches are aware that Andy likes to run and create from the backline but because of the pressure he is under when doing this they instruct his opponent to start moving towards the goals once Raines gets the ball because of the inevitable turnover that will occur. Once this happens Raines is that far out of position that he can't get back to force a contest. Surely we have a better defensive options that we can play down back that are going to make sure their opponent does not get a sniff first and then look at creating options second.
Opposition coaches have worked out that hes looking very nervous when left one out in the last line of defence, take a look at his body language these days, can literally see how uncomfortable he looks when isolated. Probably a good thing Wallace has put the pressure on him by forcing him into some big def jobs this year, hes gotta learn otherwise he'll sink to the bottom of the pond. Better to get exposed now that hes young enough to at least try and rectify it.
tiger coll
23 Jul 2007, 00:15
it's a bit hard on rainesy now tho cos remember last year we had gaspar and kellaway taking the 1st, 2nd or 3rd best forward every week, and raines could play on their 4th or 5ht forward who was most likely not very damaging. however with chubba and gas gone, rainesy has to step up now and take a good forward every week and try and be accountable which he clearly isnt.
Needs a permanent spell. He's just not up to it, won't ever be up to it. He is embarrassing. Out of the rubbish on our list this season, this boy is at the top of heap and that's some feat.
itsintheblood
23 Jul 2007, 11:45
Needs a permanent spell. He's just not up to it, won't ever be up to it. He is embarrassing. Out of the rubbish on our list this season, this boy is at the top of heap and that's some feat.
How can he go from runner up in the rising star last year to such an ordinary player in 8 months? Just doesnt make sense. Our coach has killed our players mental state.
How can he go from runner up in the rising star last year to such an ordinary player in 8 months? Just doesnt make sense. Our coach has killed our players mental state.
Dunno mate. All I know is that he's not up to it. He doesn't kick the footy, he rapes it.
CoggaRules
23 Jul 2007, 11:48
How can he go from runner up in the rising star last year to such an ordinary player in 8 months? Just doesnt make sense. Our coach has killed our players mental state.
another post that defines the culture we are suppose to be changing. If our players are that brittle in mind, then they should seek other forms of employment. You go nowhere if you keep players who can only perform if things are going their way. ;)
yeah he better get it together and quick as you say...because its looking like Stephen Ryan take 2.
Rookie of the year first year of his career.....dud after third. And Andrew is now at dud status the way he is playing.;)
Hhahahahaha so does that mean Rainsey is destined for a long and successful career down at Rye Recreational Reserve?! I still remember seeing Ryan kick his 100th 2 seasons ago and the only one who ran onto the ground was his mum....says it all! hahaha
CoggaRules
23 Jul 2007, 11:53
Hhahahahaha so does that mean Rainsey is destined for a long and successful career down at Rye Recreational Reserve?! I still remember seeing Ryan kick his 100th 2 seasons ago and the only one who ran onto the ground was his mum....says it all! hahaha
looks like you know where i am coming from when i suggest there are huge similiarities to the ryno with rainsey. Like with rainsey, its not about taking a step backwards with his new found status, after the NAB stuff, its that he is going nowhere fast. I would go as far as to say, from his total possesions, one maybe 2 actually are non errant, the rest are competely ridiculous and ontop of that, making life difficult for teammates, in that, the one at the end of one his disposals in made to also look useless, because of the useless disposal that he recieved.. That while his direct opponent is tearing him a new one;)
dyer-17
23 Jul 2007, 12:06
the only thing raines has is a surname, he is crap, just as bad as hyde, tivsm tuck, joel and sugar. all pathetic players
Malibu#27
23 Jul 2007, 12:12
wallace got his matchups wrong, motlop got a few lucky frees in the first quarter, the whole backline was in disarray and ebert was too strong for king. mcguane appeared to be loose man in defense and williams interchanging the forwards and they was lost when the new one come on.
The way I took it, Motlop was certainly going to have Raines measure in marking contests andthe like - he's just a smart (almost too smart player), becasue of this Raines was forced to infringe several times to try and negate the contest and got pinged.
Because of this it seems that as soon as he went onto Ebert Port knew he was under pressure and started using Ebert up ..... it also meant he was less inclined to get up the ground with the ball because he was under som much pressure down back.
Both Ebert and Motlop are very good marks for their size - I dont see Raines a lot but is this the sort of matchup you would normally give him ?
(Motlop actually could have got extra free kicks throughout the game for being held, but instead gave away stupid frees for retailating - he has to learn from that).
PS - Liked the pluckiness of Edwards, and King seems to have a great work effort and a love for angry pills ...
tigers71
23 Jul 2007, 12:34
The way I took it, Motlop was certainly going to have Raines measure in marking contests andthe like - he's just a smart (almost too smart player), becasue of this Raines was forced to infringe several times to try and negate the contest and got pinged.
Because of this it seems that as soon as he went onto Ebert Port knew he was under pressure and started using Ebert up ..... it also meant he was less inclined to get up the ground with the ball because he was under som much pressure down back.
Both Ebert and Motlop are very good marks for their size - I dont see Raines a lot but is this the sort of matchup you would normally give him ?
(Motlop actually could have got extra free kicks throughout the game for being held, but instead gave away stupid frees for retailating - he has to learn from that).
PS - Liked the pluckiness of Edwards, and King seems to have a great work effort and a love for angry pills ...
Port are the most arrogant team I have seen. The ones Motllop got were not good enough? Come to this thread when you beat Geelong or someone of note :thumbsu:
RichosGuns
23 Jul 2007, 12:39
Jake King was just as poor defensivly yesterday, as was Newman
Malibu#27
23 Jul 2007, 12:39
Port are the most arrogant team I have seen. The ones Motllop got were not good enough? Come to this thread when you beat Geelong or someone of note :thumbsu:
I was referring to the fact he was struggling against him and hence the usual result is free kicks. Listen to the commentators on the game and I think they saisd the same thing.
want2spoodge_pettifer
23 Jul 2007, 12:39
Both Ebert and Motlop are very good marks for their size - I dont see Raines a lot but is this the sort of matchup you would normally give him ?
terry just lines him up on whoevers gonna towel him up the best
RichosGuns
23 Jul 2007, 12:43
Raines is having second year blues, I expect Jake King to have them next year aswell. He will play a year of football very similar to this years however as he would be no long in his first year, we the spectators will notice his mistakes alot more
richoatthedisco
23 Jul 2007, 13:10
YEAH, I've noticed he has developed this habit of going for a run, then suddenly handballing to the side to someone flatfooted and about to be collared.
I've noticed plenty of tigers do this, maybe it's something they are coached to do. deledio does it a fair bit too. they are probably told not to kick to a contest or some new-age coaching garbage mantra like that. or there simply is no option upfield. not defending poor handballs because i hate it too but not a lot of point kicking long to an opposition wall. player with the ball needs to take responsibility for finding an option; players without it need to take responsibility for making options. commentators yesterday (or should i say from midnight last night cos that's when the last 2 tigers matches have been telecast up here!) continually highlighted how port players could get off their man to be a lead-up target when there wasn't much on.
i think we place too much emphasis on running with the ball. yes it's important but not as important as a good long kick. look at the way geelong moves it. they can get the ball from one end to the other in 5 seconds. it would take carl lewis 20 seconds to run it there, let alone deledio or raines. it's all very well to try to 'break the lines' but what we see with handballs to stationary targets is the result of trying to run through a wall of human flesh.
Roachy8
23 Jul 2007, 14:00
I've noticed plenty of tigers do this, maybe it's something they are coached to do. deledio does it a fair bit too. they are probably told not to kick to a contest or some new-age coaching garbage mantra like that. or there simply is no option upfield. not defending poor handballs because i hate it too but not a lot of point kicking long to an opposition wall. player with the ball needs to take responsibility for finding an option; players without it need to take responsibility for making options. commentators yesterday (or should i say from midnight last night cos that's when the last 2 tigers matches have been telecast up here!) continually highlighted how port players could get off their man to be a lead-up target when there wasn't much on.
i think we place too much emphasis on running with the ball. yes it's important but not as important as a good long kick. look at the way geelong moves it. they can get the ball from one end to the other in 5 seconds. it would take carl lewis 20 seconds to run it there, let alone deledio or raines. it's all very well to try to 'break the lines' but what we see with handballs to stationary targets is the result of trying to run through a wall of human flesh.
How's that feeling of dread & panic we all feel?
You know the one... where we have moved it out of the backline via a switch in play or a couple of passes towards the wing and then a Raines or a Johnston or a Tivendale gets hold of it.
There is a moment where they look like they are going to move it on quickly but then comes the hesitation, you can almost see the anxiety level shooting up in the brain. Then there come a couple of false starts... a step or two & a false start... then they start looking sideways & backwards.
Worse of all is the decision, if nothing else is on, to kick to a crowded and contested centre corridor! (I hate to say that Richo does this as well. When he gets the ball up on the wing and can't see much ahead of him... his kicks to CHF kill me!)
Why would we not kick long to a forward flank where a 50/50 contest could go either way and if we did lose possession, we could try to bottle it up?
It's moments like these in Tigers games that have me reaching for the Mylanta!:(
NAB rising star...Pearce...and second Raines....Bwahaahaaaa......what a joke....one cruises like a rolls royce doing party tricks at will..the other doesnt have a clue....what has happened to this kid.....every time he gets it....its another comedy capers moment. See player x oh...i have to handpass it to him...but wait..brain must say, dont do it Andrew...there is opposition player right there and it means JS to the cause.. because teamate will get tackled immediately. But handball is given. Like...its totally brainless..cant understand WTF he is thinking...but it borders on the ludicrous when it just keeps happening ..;)
Dont be too hard on the young guy. It's your senior players I would be more scathing of. You do not loose what Raines has (last year). It will re-surface.
I've seen most of these guys come through since 17 year olds and believe Raines has the goods. It's all about confidence, right now. You are placing all your hopes on your young brigade before they are ready to fire.
We had 2 young players at Port go through the same thing over the last 2 yrs and now they are firing ! 2 others youngsters are curently, transitioning.
CoggaRules
23 Jul 2007, 15:23
Dont be too hard on the young guy. It's your senior players I would be more scathing of. You do not loose what Raines has (last year). It will re-surface.
I've seen most of these guys come through since 17 year olds and believe Raines has the goods. It's all about confidence, right now. You are placing all your hopes on your young brigade before they are ready to fire.
We had 2 young players at Port go through the same thing over the last 2 yrs and now they are firing ! 2 others youngsters are curently, transitioning.
dude, new culture at tigerland = no mollycoddling players. They play under pressure or they dont play. Those that make it through are ready to take us the next step. Otherwise you end up with relying on Joel Bowdens to take you the next step, and you keep on waiting and waiting..;)
Thursfieldness
23 Jul 2007, 15:27
I thought Raines was terrible both in his decision making and marking of Ebert, only beaten by Hyde's stinker.
Big Punt
23 Jul 2007, 18:32
Raines has no confidence in himself ATM and his decision making under pressure is woeful. He has lost "it", the thing that made him so good last year.
The question is: will he regain "it" with regained confidence or has he lost it forever?
IMO if anyone needed to be sent back to VFL level for some confidence building - he is the prime candidate.
diligaf
23 Jul 2007, 19:07
2008 will be a telling season for Raines in (what could be) his final year as an AFL player!
emperor
23 Jul 2007, 19:56
through a fair portion of the season i've thought confidence was a major factor for Raines. But this is probably not the case as he is sinking deeper and deeper into the mire and doesn't look like pulling himself out of it. It's very disappointing.
Ah Cheung
23 Jul 2007, 21:40
2008 will be a telling season for Raines in (what could be) his final year as an AFL player!
I thought Raines got a 3 year contract lasting till 2009? I thought it was 3 years coz i remember at the time thinking that 2 years would've been better. We gave Polo 2 years and I would've preferred we gave 3 years to Polo instead.
Anyone confirm this?
diligaf
23 Jul 2007, 21:57
I thought Raines got a 3 year contract lasting till 2009? I thought it was 3 years coz i remember at the time thinking that 2 years would've been better. We gave Polo 2 years and I would've preferred we gave 3 years to Polo instead.
Anyone confirm this?
It still doesn't guarantee him a game with the A's next season. He needs to play a few 'early blinders' in 08 to keep his spot otherwise the match committee will simply lose faith then demote him into the football wilderness of the VFL!
The kids in big strife. He puts too much pressure on the half back line. I like the look of him all the same though, he looks like with a big pre season he could pick up a lil bit more skill.
Ps. Its good to not be red carded anymore :P
CoggaRules
24 Jul 2007, 00:07
Raines is having second year blues, I expect Jake King to have them next year aswell. He will play a year of football very similar to this years however as he would be no long in his first year, we the spectators will notice his mistakes alot more
dude, second year blues more often than not mean you are not getting a handle on the pill, either because you are now targetted as a must be taken care of player, or you just cant get it period....this guy is getting it and competely ****ing it up. That aint second year blues, that is first year the stars were aligned and just happened to go your way and second year has shown that was the case. Like i said, if he was having the second year blues, then i wouldnt be saying this. But he is now at the doorstep, if not inside the door of dudsville. And you saw first hand on Sunday what is the difference between players that are players and players that are touted as players but arent. i.e does pearce have second year blues? did you see anything that remotely suggested he was suffering them? He was dancing around us like we were statues and doing whatever he wanted at will. Now take a look at Raines, what was he doing apart from running into a maze of arms and legs, thinking that they would part because the stars were aligned. ;)
Raines is having second year blues, I expect Jake King to have them next year aswell. He will play a year of football very similar to this years however as he would be no long in his first year, we the spectators will notice his mistakes alot more
2nd year blues in his fourth season of AFL footy? How can that be possible? This kid epitomises everything that has been Richmond of late. Bumbling, stumbling fool masquerading as an AFL footballer. Imposter.
The Messenger
24 Jul 2007, 11:41
The kids in big strife. He puts too much pressure on the half back line. I like the look of him all the same though, he looks like with a big pre season he could pick up a lil bit more skill.
Ps. Its good to not be red carded anymore :P
It's not entirley Raines' fault the short handballs and the sideways kicks. This is the exact same conversation people on the Hawks board had about Joel Smith a few years back. He was doing the same as Raines, handballing to guys standing still, stopping and U turning when he was dashing down the feild, kicking sideways to contests. It's because of the forward structure and nothing presenting further up the feild. Smith was and AA and B&F winner with the Hawks and people were saying his skills were no good and his decision making was poor which he is showing this year is not right. This year he has guys who are presenting down forward and his disposal and decision making has turned around.
Raines is the same he likes to kick to a presenting forward and with Richo close to goal and Hughes, Schultz and Riewoldt yet to develop he doesn't have someone leading at him. In a few years when you have a guy pushing hard to the middle and the wings his natural instinct to run forward and kick long will return. I think Raines will be a solid contributer in the future once the forward line develops.
Paddles
24 Jul 2007, 11:42
It's not entirley Raines' fault the short handballs and the sideways kicks. This is the exact same conversation people on the Hawks board had about Joel Smith a few years back. He was doing the same as Raines, handballing to guys standing still, stopping and U turning when he was dashing down the feild, kicking sideways to contests. It's because of the forward structure and nothing presenting further up the feild. Smith was and AA and B&F winner with the Hawks and people were saying his skills were no good and his decision making was poor which he is showing this year is not right. This year he has guys who are presenting down forward and his disposal and decision making has turned around.
Raines is the same he likes to kick to a presenting forward and with Richo close to goal and Hughes, Schultz and Riewoldt yet to develop he doesn't have someone leading at him. In a few years when you have a guy pushing hard to the middle and the wings his natural instinct to run forward and kick long will return. I think Raines will be a solid contributer in the future once the forward line develops.
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,1658,5578376,00.jpg
Terry: try and bring Rainesy into the game.
Joel: your're kidding me.
Crumden
24 Jul 2007, 18:46
It's not entirley Raines' fault the short handballs and the sideways kicks. This is the exact same conversation people on the Hawks board had about Joel Smith a few years back. He was doing the same as Raines, handballing to guys standing still, stopping and U turning when he was dashing down the feild, kicking sideways to contests. It's because of the forward structure and nothing presenting further up the feild. Smith was and AA and B&F winner with the Hawks and people were saying his skills were no good and his decision making was poor which he is showing this year is not right. This year he has guys who are presenting down forward and his disposal and decision making has turned around.
Raines is the same he likes to kick to a presenting forward and with Richo close to goal and Hughes, Schultz and Riewoldt yet to develop he doesn't have someone leading at him. In a few years when you have a guy pushing hard to the middle and the wings his natural instinct to run forward and kick long will return. I think Raines will be a solid contributer in the future once the forward line develops.I agree with a lot of this. Part of our problem is that we haven't found a way to get past the wall opposition teams set up across our half forward. Combined with the general lack of confidence across the team, it causes indecision and poor choices. On top of that, Raines has been given some odd jobs. He has been consistently playing on blokes taller and better in the air than him.
I'd like to see Raines moved up to a wing for a while. He could take his couple of bounces then would be kicking deep into the forward line, instead of stright into the wall at the half-forward line. Even if he turned it over, I would still prefer it to watching Hyde run around in circles three times before getting caught or Howat kicking it long but missing the mark by 15 metres.
CoggaRules
25 Jul 2007, 00:02
I agree with a lot of this. Part of our problem is that we haven't found a way to get past the wall opposition teams set up across our half forward..
the other part of the problem is who that wall has a party with. Take a look...if the opposition drop one extra player back, againt the tigers it means he have 2 extra back, because we have a player there who gets by, because he is paid to only kick goals...cant do anything else...but we pay him for it. Cant take a contested mark, cant jump without giving away a free, to slow to make a lead, to slow to evade, to slow to make the ground on a rampaging running forward HB, cant work out a given situation and deliver a pass, without it being a balloon ball to no one, but he is ok because we pay him to kick goals.;)
richoatthedisco
25 Jul 2007, 18:43
the other part of the problem is who that wall has a party with. Take a look...if the opposition drop one extra player back, againt the tigers it means he have 2 extra back, because we have a player there who gets by, because he is paid to only kick goals...cant do anything else...but we pay him for it. Cant take a contested mark, cant jump without giving away a free, to slow to make a lead, to slow to evade, to slow to make the ground on a rampaging running forward HB, cant work out a given situation and deliver a pass, without it being a balloon ball to no one, but he is ok because we pay him to kick goals.;)
A: Who is Kane Pettifer?
Ah Cheung
25 Jul 2007, 22:17
Everyone can see that Raineseys disposals aren't effective and its going sideways and handballing to teammates in trouble. A solution that was mentioned was that he should be moved into the midfield so that he can just kick long into the forward line...
You may get your wish soon enough..
http://richmondfc.com.au/Season2007/News/NewsArticle/tabid/6301/Default.aspx?newsId=47976
tony_montana
25 Jul 2007, 22:47
You cant hide in midfield if you cant kick!
bottom line, he will have to improve this facet of his game no compromises.