Sydney v St Kilda

[Kildonan]

Our recent history against the Swans is interesting if not surprising:

We seem to win or draw our home games, they tend to win their home matches at the SCG (except out last heroic appearance there) and at the G we won our 2004 semifinal against them, and in 2005 the Swans ran away with it in the last quarter in the prelim of their premiership year.

Grnd Pl W L D First Last W-L Seq
MCG 2 1 1 0 2004 2005 WL
SCG 5 1 4 0 2001 2006 LLLLW
TD 4 3 0 1 2001 2007 WDWW

This is our first meeting at the Telstra Stadium.


Year Rd Team Score Opponent Score Gnd Result Marg
2007 7 St Kilda 15. 7 (97) vs Sydney 11. 5 (71) TD WON 26
2006 11 St Kilda 7.10 (52) vs Sydney 7. 8 (50) SCG WON 2
2005 1PF St Kilda 9.11 (65) vs Sydney 15. 6 (96) MCG Lost -31
2005 10 St Kilda 15.11 (101) vs Sydney 8.10 (58) TD WON 43
2004 1SF St Kilda 16.11 (107) vs Sydney 8. 8 (56) MCG WON 51
2004 11 St Kilda 11.10 (76) vs Sydney 17.10 (112) SCG Lost -36
2003 15 St Kilda 9. 7 (61) vs Sydney 15.22 (112) SCG Lost -51
2002 20 St Kilda 12. 8 (80) vs Sydney 12.15 (87) SCG Lost -7
2002 5 St Kilda 8. 8 (56) vs Sydney 8. 8 (56) TD Drawn 0
2001 21 St Kilda 8. 7 (55) vs Sydney 21.16 (142) SCG Lost -87
2001 6 St Kilda 18.12 (120) vs Sydney 14.10 (94) TD WON 26

[Kildonan]

SYDNEY v ST KILDA
Saturday, 7:15pm AEST, Telstra Stadium

SYDNEY
B: Kennelly, Barry, Malceski
HB: Bevan, Bolton, Mathews
C: Ablett, Kirk, Buchanan
HF: R.O'Keefe, O'Loughlin, McVeigh
F: Schneider, Hall, Davis
FOLL: Jolly, J.Bolton, Goodes

I/C: Everitt, Fosdike, Richards, Roberts-Thomson
EM: Schmidt, Dempster, Brennan

IN: Barry, Roberts-Thomson
OUT: Brennan, Grundy

ST KILDA
B: Maguire, Hudghton, L.Fisher
HB: Gram, S.Fisher, Baker
C: Harvey, Hayes, Montagna
HF: C.Jones, Riewoldt, X.Clarke
F: Milne, Gehrig, Koschitzke
FOLL: Rix, Dal Santo, Ball

I/C: Attard, Blake, Fiora, Gilbert
EM: Birss, M.Clarke, R.Clarke

IN: Ball, Rix
OUT: Birss, M.Clarke

Field umpires: Donlon, McLaren, McInerney

[DST]

Very interesting to note on those stats StKildonan that almost all St Kilda wins were early season games and Sydney wins were after round 15.

This is consistent with our gradual form build-up over the last 3 to 4 years later in a season.

It is going to be real interesting to see if Sydney can once again click into overdrive in the next couple of weeks.

DST
:D

[ChrisFooty]

Two suprises

1) Rix gets ahead of M.Clarke
2) Clinton Jones doesn't get dropped (didn't appear to be at AFL standard last week)

Someone like Barry Brooks should feel really annoyed. I'm not a fan of him, but he has displayed good VFL form and doesn't get another go. He could dominate VFL and still not be considered for selection.

[Fehring]

Two suprises

1) Rix gets ahead of M.Clarke
2) Clinton Jones doesn't get dropped (didn't appear to be at AFL standard last week)

Someone like Barry Brooks should feel really annoyed. I'm not a fan of him, but he has displayed good VFL form and doesn't get another go. He could dominate VFL and still not be considered for selection.

Mmmm. Surprised they didn't take a tap ruckman in against Spider and Jolly. Re Jones, I didn't see last week's game (thankfully) but he's very hard at it and very quick and they probably figured it's better to let him keep his place and work back into form.

[grimlock]

One matchup I'm waiting for - Riewoldt v Bolton. Both in great form and should be a fantastic battle.

[johnnyhoward]

Very interesting to note on those stats StKildonan that almost all St Kilda wins were early season games and Sydney wins were after round 15.

This is consistent with our gradual form build-up over the last 3 to 4 years later in a season.

It is going to be real interesting to see if Sydney can once again click into overdrive in the next couple of weeks.

DST
:D
Shit :( We've never played at Telstra either, it'll be interesting to see how we adapt to the ground.

[sainter]

Anybody going up for the game?

It will be the 3rd time I've been to Telstra Stadium. Both have been memorable occasions for different reasons. The Australia Uruguay World Cup Qualifier was incredible and the 2006 NRL Grand Final not so good.

Ball for Birss was the obvious selection (although Jones failed to impress last week as Chris suggested) but I'm surprised to see Clarke dropped for Rix. For all his effort I don't see Rixy hurting the Swans and while he will work his arse off he doesn't have the ability to hurt the opposition with his ability to find a teammate like Clarke can.

The Swans don't seem to perform too well at the ground while we are an unknown quantity there. We've been really disappointing the last couple of weeks and will have to lift a massive amount to give the Swans a run for their money. They have a very difficult draw to come so the game is a big one for them. I'm not too confident but when you look at last week we had so many of our better players down (Dal Santo, Harvey, Montagna, Gehrig, etc) so we have a big amount of improvement in us.

Time to stand up boys.

[Kildonan]

Very interesting to note on those stats StKildonan that almost all St Kilda wins were early season games and Sydney wins were after round 15.

This is consistent with our gradual form build-up over the last 3 to 4 years later in a season.

I don't see it quite that way...

2004 Swans end the Saints "streak" of 10 wins and then we knock you out of finals
2005 Saints a comfortable win midseason and are injury compromised in the final
2006 100% record to the Saints
2007 100% record to the Saints

[DST]

I don't see it quite that way...

2004 Swans end the Saints "streak" of 10 wins and then we knock you out of finals
2005 Saints a comfortable win midseason and are injury compromised in the final
2006 100% record to the Saints
2007 100% record to the Saints

If you don't include the draw we have played 10 times since 2001, with the form line being Sydney 4 and 1 from round 15, with 1 and 4 before round 15.

So yes the form line shows that if and when we do meet later in the year the Swans are in better shape.

DST
:D

[Bourky23]

shall be an interesting game... i rekon our boys will love playing on this ground

[St DAC]

Telstra Stadium is regarded as a big ground, but actually it's not. According to a post on saintsational.com, it's 160M x 118, whereas TD is 159.5 x 128. So, in length, near enough to TD, just a bit narrower. I'm not sure if that helps us or not, but it busts the myth about TS being a large ground.

[NeXus_Helen]

Not playing Voss is a disgrace......pure and simple!!!!

[Fryman]

Should be an interesting match, plenty of good match ups on paper. I just wonder what sort of game it will be, both teams can play ugly if their in the mood.

One thing I will be looking for is Leo Barry molesting Gehrig at every contest. Most of the time it goes unpunished, I think because of the size difference they cut Leo some slack.

[joeblow2]

Should be an interesting match, plenty of good match ups on paper. I just wonder what sort of game it will be, both teams can play ugly if their in the mood.

One thing I will be looking for is Leo Barry molesting Gehrig at every contest. Most of the time it goes unpunished, I think because of the size difference they cut Leo some slack.
Leo Barry won't play.

[liz]

The Swans don't seem to perform too well at the ground.

That's a bit of a myth. This season we're 0-2 but over the past three seasons we've played there 10 times, I think (3 h&a each year plus the PF last year against Freo) for an 8-2 record. Both of the losses were against Collingwood, one a very close game and another in the pouring rain where the Swans didn't look in the least bit switched on.

It's not a perfect run but is better than our SCG record over the same period.

[ChrisL#12]

The ground won't affect the result. TS is similar to TD and so the dimensions won't bother us too much, but the fact that it is up there will. Sydney, on the other hand, will be more worried about the ground size as they are used to the SCG which is much smaller in length.

[Kildonan]

The Collingwood loss gives the Saints a greater chance of making the eight, but it also opens the door for the Swans to snatch a top 4 spot.

This is a crucial match for both clubs, but is season defining particularly for the Saints. A loss here virtually ends all hope of September action, whilst a win makes it a very real likelihood !

The Swans can afford a loss, but they would be "on-wood" after that. They are bitter at the loss to a better tackling St Kilda outfit in their last meeting and will be out to re-establish their believed superiority in that aspect of play - something that has been almost fundamental to their style of play.

Lets hope that a backs-against-the-walls Saints outfit will be more desperate than the Swans. We have not been desperate enough in many matches this year, but when we tackle fiercely like we did last time we played the Swans, the Saints look to be a very good outfit. Good enough to go all the way if we can maintain that intensity.

[Kildonan]

Cats opt to leave out Chapman for clash with Crows (http://realfooty.com.au/news/news/cats-opt-to-leave-out-chapman/2007/08/10/1186530618486.html)
Real Footy
August 11, 2007

// Snip irrelevent stuff //

■Sydney coach Paul Roos says co-captain Leo Barry is still in doubt for tonight's crucial match against St Kilda at Telstra Stadium.

The Swans full-back, who has missed the past fortnight with a hamstring injury, has been named to make his return against the Saints.

But following an unsatisfactory training performance on Thursday night, Roos conceded Barry was no certainty.

"We've still got some doubt on Leo, he couldn't do as much as we would have liked last night," Roos said. "We'll wait until tomorrow because he's a quality player and give him every chance to play."

Sydney has also named tall defender Lewis Roberts-Thomson, who will make his 2007 debut after recovering from a foot injury that has kept him out of action since last year's grand final loss to West Coast.

St Kilda coach Ross Lyon said his players knew their season was on the line tonight.

"I haven't had to highlight to the players the importance of this game — they know there is a finals opportunity here and they can't afford to lose," Lyon said.

Lyon got the better of his former mentor when the Saints beat the Swans by 26 points in round seven.

Roos is expecting his defenders to have their hands full lining up against the potent St Kilda forward line that includes Nick Riewoldt and Fraser Gehrig.

"We know Nick's a really good player … they've got two quality forwards in Riewoldt and Gehrig and Milne has kicked some goals, too," Roos said.

"So the match-ups down there are obviously important and it will be interesting to see who goes on who.

"I think Nick could have a good game and we could still win and Fraser could play well and we could still win. But if we don't get a good contribution from 22 players, then we know we are not going to win."

[Osmodiar]

I hope you saints win

[mad-saint-guy]

I am not confident at all going into this game. The selections were horrible IMO and could end up losing us the game. We have a side with poor footskills, very few creative players and too many who just don't get enough of the ball.

All of these players often end with less than 10 disposals
Attard
Rix
Jones
Hudghton
Gehrig
Maguire

While these guys sometimes struggle to get their hands on the ball
L.Fisher
Baker
X.Clarke
Milne
Blake

That is half the side who may very well end up with less than 10 disposals, and that just leaves too much to too few. We can't count on Dal, Harvs, Lenny, Ball and Joey to get 30 disposals every week. Birss had been providing some relief and Matt Clarke was having a bit of an influence around the ground. Now we have Rix, who has had more than 10 disposals once in his career, Attard who averages 3 kicks per game and Jones who might as well not touch the footy because he'll turn it over.

In the end I think we'll just end up having too many passengers tonight. Temas like West Coast and Geelong very rarely have more than 3 players who touch the ball less than 10 times. They get contributions from every player who takes the field.

Last week we had 8 players with less than 10 disposals - Draw
Round 18 we had 3 - Comfortable win
Round 17 we had 3 - Comfortable win
Round 16 we had 6 - Close win
Round 15 we had 6 - Narrow loss
Round 14 we had 4 - 3 goal win
Round 13 we had 5 - Poor loss
Round 12 we had 8 - Shocking loss
Round 11 we had 7 - Shocking loss
...etc

It shows that when our bottom 6 players step up and actually make a contribution rather than just playing half a game for 6 disposals, we win. When they do nothing of note, we lose. Obviously this is one of many factors, but it has a huge impact on our game and I don't think the bottom 6 in the team we have selected is good enough to help us over the line.

[ChrisFooty]

I can't understand some of the selections??? Rix and Jones?

[Kildonan]

The players must have been selected to perform specific tasks.
I am disappointed in some regards (in particular the failure to put big Barry Brooks up forward for a whole match, and also Ferguson in on a back flank/pocket), but I do understand that the coach and the selection panel are putting forward the players that they believe can best do the job each week.

[Kildonan]

SYDNEY v ST KILDA
Saturday, 7:15pm AEST, Telstra Stadium

SYDNEY
B: Kennelly, Richards, Malceski
HB: Bevan, Bolton, Mathews
C: Ablett, Kirk, Buchanan
HF: R.O'Keefe, O'Loughlin, McVeigh
F: Schneider, Hall, Davis
FOLL: Jolly, J.Bolton, Goodes

I/C: Everitt, Fosdike, Brennan, Schmidt
EM: Schmidt, Dempster, Brennan

IN: Schmidt (Barry and Roberts-Thompson = late omissions)
OUT: Grundy

ST KILDA
B: Maguire, Hudghton, L.Fisher
HB: Gram, S.Fisher, Baker
C: Harvey, Hayes, Montagna
HF: C.Jones, Riewoldt, X.Clarke
F: Milne, Gehrig, Koschitzke
FOLL: Rix, Dal Santo, Ball

I/C: Attard, Blake, Fiora, Gilbert
EM: Birss, M.Clarke, R.Clarke

IN: Ball, Rix
OUT: Birss, M.Clarke

Field umpires: Donlon, McLaren, McInerney

[kosi_23]

We are playing alright.. should be leading but anyway.

I hate it how when we mark it,we handball a player that has nothing to kick to. soo annoying! and Clarkes missing easy ones!!!

[Kildonan]

Half Time:

Sydney Swans: 5.5.35
St Kilda Saints: 5.5.35

Best for the Saints: Lukey Ball Leigh Montagna
and for the Swans: Adam Goodes, Brett Kirk

This is one of the worst spectacles I have ever watched.
No wonder the Sydney public are slow in support of AFL football - if this is the tripe served up to them - I don't blame them for turning to League !

[kosi_23]

Getting samshed by the umpires!!
Costly goal at the end of the quarter/

[Kildonan]

Sydney Swans: 9.7.61
St Kilda Saints: 8.9.57

The worst game of footy continues.
A free kick to Swans gives them a goal after the siren that we couldn't afford to let them have.

Hudghton is a champion

[kosi_23]

How disposal with shiet all night.. cost us badly

[mad-saint-guy]

Well what a great, big fckin surprise.

Jones' disposal is absolutely pathetic. Had 6 kicks for about 5 clangers.
And Rix gets his pants pulled down i the ruck.

Just as I predicted

Attard - 5 disposals
Fiora - 9 disposals
L.Fisher - 5 disposals
Gehrig - 4 disposals
Jones - 8 disposals
Rix - 4 disposals

There are 6 players who contributed absolutely nothing, while the likes of Blake, Dal Santo, S.Fisher, Gram, Harvey and Riewoldt performed at a level nowhere near their usual standard.

TOO MANY PASSENGERS

Baker, Ball, Gilbert and Hudghton are the only players who can hold their heads high after that pathetic display.

There are too many players who butcher the ball
There are too many players who go missing
There are too many one-dimensional players
There are too many crap players

[saintsownthedome]

Sydney Swans: 9.7.61
St Kilda Saints: 8.9.57

The worst game of footy continues.
A free kick to Swans gives them a goal after the siren that we couldn't afford to let them have.

Hudghton is a champion

Umm, I think Nick Davis took a mark, not given a free.

[kosi_23]

Well what a great, big fckin surprise.

Jones' disposal is absolutely pathetic. Had 6 kicks for about 5 clangers.
And Rix gets his pants pulled down i the ruck.

Just as I predicted

Attard - 5 disposals
Fiora - 9 disposals
L.Fisher - 5 disposals
Gehrig - 4 disposals
Jones - 8 disposals
Rix - 4 disposals

There are 6 players who contributed absolutely nothing, while the likes of Blake, Dal Santo, S.Fisher, Gram, Harvey and Riewoldt performed at a level nowhere near their usual standard.

TOO MANY PASSENGERS

Baker, Ball, Gilbert and Hudghton are the only players who can hold their heads high after that pathetic display.

There are too many players who butcher the ball
There are too many players who go missing
There are too many one-dimensional players
There are too many crap players


thought rix was ok.. but i agree, so many players didnt contribute tonight, and jared mcveigh 3 goals????

[bubblegoose]

Well what a great, big fckin surprise.

Jones' disposal is absolutely pathetic. Had 6 kicks for about 5 clangers.
And Rix gets his pants pulled down i the ruck.

Just as I predicted

Attard - 5 disposals
Fiora - 9 disposals
L.Fisher - 5 disposals
Gehrig - 4 disposals
Jones - 8 disposals
Rix - 4 disposals

There are 6 players who contributed absolutely nothing, while the likes of Blake, Dal Santo, S.Fisher, Gram, Harvey and Riewoldt performed at a level nowhere near their usual standard.

TOO MANY PASSENGERS

Baker, Ball, Gilbert and Hudghton are the only players who can hold their heads high after that pathetic display.

There are too many players who butcher the ball
There are too many players who go missing
There are too many one-dimensional players
There are too many crap players

yup & I can't see this changing for the rest of the year. Now that Lyon's had his teething year I'd expect a decent change going into next year.

[ChrisFooty]

Xavier Clarke was horrible. just horrible. lives on his reputation and high draft pick status.

[HoldenMCaulfield]

Oh well, let Sydney go and see them make it into the Top 4 - and get our revenge in the Semis after their humiliating loss to the Cats in the Qualifier ...

With the other results of this weekend, we still have a good chance to make the finals (in particular if Geelong beat Adelaide and Freo beat Essendon) - we actually improved our precentage compared to the Bulldogs !

Freo and Adelaide should be be the biggest threats - making next week a MUST WIN game (and with a bit of luck on the other grounds, a win against the Tigers in Rd 22 may be enough) !

[sauce_head]

Why the hell are we giving Fiora a go? He never plays well in losing side. Must be the least accountable player in the team (which I am ranting about at present!).

I think Roos was the better coach today, as he knew what RL knows and was able to make some changes. Not sure if that makes sense of not.

[Kildonan]

Xavier Clarke was horrible. just horrible. lives on his reputation and high draft pick status.
I disagree - he is clearly talented but has nowhere near the fitness level required for the level he is playing at. He needs to learn what work ethic truly means. He has to maintain his fitness this year and carry it into next season - putting in a massive preseason. His skills aren't done justice because of his lack of physical strength and especially fitness.

[St DAC]

He'll be starting his seventh pre-season in November. When exactly do you expect his fitness to be up to the required level? :confused:

[joeblow2]

I disagree - he is clearly talented but has nowhere near the fitness level required for the level he is playing at. He needs to learn what work ethic truly means. He has to maintain his fitness this year and carry it into next season - putting in a massive preseason. His skills aren't done justice because of his lack of physical strength and especially fitness.
I hope you're disagreeing with the reputation bit, coz his game tonight was appalling. Had a few mates though. Any word on Gilbert?

[Kildonan]

I agree with MSG that we are carrying too many players who do not contribute consistently. It must be remembered though that some players do sacrifice their game for the team. So statistics don't always bear out who those players are.

Tonights game wasn't really a personnel problem. We simply weren't able to match Sydney for sheer boredom. They play a game where they possess the ball or put it out of bounds. That's why they need such good ruckmen - to give them an advantage from the sheer number of throw ins that results from their style of play. They have to be highly skilled to play this style of play - and we quite frankly can't match it with them on the skills front. Our kicking is deplorable and laughable at times.

The loss of Goddard is telling, he is so highly skilled that we came to rely on him and it has taken us half a season to partially compensate for his absence.
Sydney saw this as fundamental to our demolition. They stopped Sam Fisher (who has taken Goddard's role) and they stopped Dal Santo (our next best kick) as well as Harvey and Gram (our most noted running players).

Sadly Sydney have received fewer free kicks than their opponents most of the season because of their style of play, but even so they managed the better of the free kicks when it came to playing the Saints. What was consisently paid as holding the ball against the Saints was merely a ball up when the Swans did exactly the same thing.

Frustrating but not really changing the result in any way. We simply were outsmarted by a better coach and a more highly skilled squad who played boring but winning football.

Is this where football is permanently headed?

The boring stuff that frustrates rather than entertains?

I know the Sydney public are happy - they don't seem to require entertainment - just victory - but I believe that I speak for a vast unvoiced majority who are not happy that bad football results in victory.

The Saints season is all but over after this loss. I am sad because of this, but I am also disappointed that football continues to be headed towards a boring nondescript unentertaining continuation of the Sydney style of play.

[nico]

I agree with MSG that we are carrying too many players who do not contribute consistently. It must be remembered though that some players do sacrifice their game for the team. So statistics don't always bear out who those players are.

Tonights game wasn't really a personnel problem. We simply weren't able to match Sydney for sheer boredom. They play a game where they possess the ball or put it out of bounds. That's why they need such good ruckmen - to give them an advantage from the sheer number of throw ins that results from their style of play. They have to be highly skilled to play this style of play - and we quite frankly can't match it with them on the skills front. Our kicking is deplorable and laughable at times.

The loss of Goddard is telling, he is so highly skilled that we came to rely on him and it has taken us half a season to partially compensate for his absence.
Sydney saw this as fundamental to our demolition. They stopped Sam Fisher (who has taken Goddard's role) and they stopped Dal Santo (our next best kick) as well as Harvey and Gram (our most noted running players).

Sadly Sydney have received fewer free kicks than their opponents most of the season because of their style of play, but even so they managed the better of the free kicks when it came to playing the Saints. What was consisently paid as holding the ball against the Saints was merely a ball up when the Swans did exactly the same thing.

Frustrating but not really changing the result in any way. We simply were outsmarted by a better coach and a more highly skilled squad who played boring but winning football.

Is this where football is permanently headed?

The boring stuff that frustrates rather than entertains?

I know the Sydney public are happy - they don't seem to require entertainment - just victory - but I believe that I speak for a vast unvoiced majority who are not happy that bad football results in victory.

The Saints season is all but over after this loss. I am sad because of this, but I am also disappointed that football continues to be headed towards a boring nondescript unentertaining continuation of the Sydney style of play.

What a load of dribble. I love playing the violin to people like you. In the end it was the survival of the fittest. Strewth Lyon had the massive flood going all night and in the end we kept going and you blokes ran out of legs.

In Melbourne earlier in the year Lyon played the same tactics and won, this time it didn't work.

[Kildonan]

So I am right then - Sydney supporters don't require entertainment - simply victory.

[grimlock]

Very surprised at the comments here. Tonight was a pressure game akin to finals footy. Both teams applied great pressure all night and I believe it was the superior fitness of the Swans that saw them win out at the end. But both teams played some very good football, not a high scoring game, but very entertaining IMO. And yes, the umpiring was horrible for both sides, although I'll admit we got the better of it. We don't usually, so I'll take it.

[jokiKan]

I agree with MSG that we are carrying too many players who do not contribute consistently. It must be remembered though that some players do sacrifice their game for the team. So statistics don't always bear out who those players are.

Tonights game wasn't really a personnel problem. We simply weren't able to match Sydney for sheer boredom. They play a game where they possess the ball or put it out of bounds. That's why they need such good ruckmen - to give them an advantage from the sheer number of throw ins that results from their style of play. They have to be highly skilled to play this style of play - and we quite frankly can't match it with them on the skills front. Our kicking is deplorable and laughable at times.

The loss of Goddard is telling, he is so highly skilled that we came to rely on him and it has taken us half a season to partially compensate for his absence.
Sydney saw this as fundamental to our demolition. They stopped Sam Fisher (who has taken Goddard's role) and they stopped Dal Santo (our next best kick) as well as Harvey and Gram (our most noted running players).

Sadly Sydney have received fewer free kicks than their opponents most of the season because of their style of play, but even so they managed the better of the free kicks when it came to playing the Saints. What was consisently paid as holding the ball against the Saints was merely a ball up when the Swans did exactly the same thing.

Frustrating but not really changing the result in any way. We simply were outsmarted by a better coach and a more highly skilled squad who played boring but winning football.

Is this where football is permanently headed?

The boring stuff that frustrates rather than entertains?

I know the Sydney public are happy - they don't seem to require entertainment - just victory - but I believe that I speak for a vast unvoiced majority who are not happy that bad football results in victory.

The Saints season is all but over after this loss. I am sad because of this, but I am also disappointed that football continues to be headed towards a boring nondescript unentertaining continuation of the Sydney style of play.


Never read a bigger load of shit in my life.

You don't run as hard as us. Not as fit as us. You're not as accountable as us. You're not bold enough when attacking.

I can see how that can't be too entertaining.

When the game was on the line (last quarter) - what did you produce? Where was your forward line? Inside your 50m.

Go to bed.

[johnnyhoward]

It was a tight game, I wouldn't call it exciting though. We put up a good fight but were overran by a better side - at 3 quarter time that late goal on the siren was the first nail in the coffin. With our record in final quarters (lack of fitness, mental problems?) we really needed to make the most of our opportunities in the first 3 quarters and we didn't.

Classic Sydney victory, grinded away until they gained control and they did it very well. Should meet the Cats in the GF - although the game against the Pies in two weeks will most likely decide whether you get a top 4 berth. Good luck in the finals, maybe we'll meet you there (hopefully...:))

[Kildonan]

You've beaten us once in the last five meetings before tonight and on that occasion we were heavily compromised by injury. We always have played free flowing attacking football. We beat you on skill and flair.

You beat us tonight on exactly the opposite. You beat us on possession and ugly knock it out of bounds football.

I lament that you won using those tactics, but it is partly due to our own approach. Our coach was outsmarted by yours. We played your style of football and we played it poorer than you did. It was not smart. It was not pretty. In fact it was ugly.

What scares me is that if this goes on I may lose my passion for this game.

I want to watch entertaining football - not this junk.

[ChikoRoll]

I want to watch entertaining football - not this junk.

Too much victoria bitter tonight sunny? Sadly you are out of luck cause Rossy is keen too play the brand of footy you hate. If i was you I would just give up now!

Ahh victory is so much sweeter when i read such tripe from such a medicore supporter base.

:thumbsu:

Warning given for trolling on a club board

[FixterFan]

You've beaten us once in the last five meetings before tonight and on that occasion we were heavily compromised by injury. We always have played free flowing attacking football. We beat you on skill and flair.

You beat us tonight on exactly the opposite. You beat us on possession and ugly knock it out of bounds football.

I lament that you won using those tactics, but it is partly due to our own approach. Our coach was outsmarted by yours. We played your style of football and we played it poorer than you did. It was not smart. It was not pretty. In fact it was ugly.

What scares me is that if this goes on I may lose my passion for this game.

I want to watch entertaining football - not this junk.

First of all, congratulations to the two teams for fighting out a very hard fought, intense game. In a way it was quite a finals-like game, and miles better than the rugby-league-style "handball your way up to field to the F50" games that seem to have infested the AFL competition recently. Now that is ugly football, if you can even call it "football" anymore when there's more handballs than kicks in a game.

On your other point - our "possession football" style tonight was a response to your "getting numbers behind the ball" style that you played tonight. Generally speaking we've averaged 100 marks per 200 kicks this year, but tonight we had 120 marks for our 200 kicks in the match, well up on average. It was almost exactly the same as the match earlier this year, except this time we tackled harder, and kicked a bit better.

And for the record I quite enjoyed our 2006 stosh in the mud too. Old-fashioned footy at its finest.

[Big Ted]

You've beaten us once in the last five meetings before tonight and on that occasion we were heavily compromised by injury. We always have played free flowing attacking football. We beat you on skill and flair.

You beat us tonight on exactly the opposite. You beat us on possession and ugly knock it out of bounds football.

I lament that you won using those tactics, but it is partly due to our own approach. Our coach was outsmarted by yours. We played your style of football and we played it poorer than you did. It was not smart. It was not pretty. In fact it was ugly.

What scares me is that if this goes on I may lose my passion for this game.

I want to watch entertaining football - not this junk.

We have served up this junk everytime we have lost this season..

Lyon needs to pull something out when a team negates what we are doing. What worries me at present is a few things

1 - The 4th Qtr fade outs obviously
2 - We dont look fit enough ..
3 - A lack of attacking flair when needed.

We are the complete opposite of the team under GT (I have been one of GT's biggest critics here) I hated the fact that we were not accountable under GT and we had too many goals kicked on us.

Now we cant kick enough goals !!! .. somewhere there has to be a happy medium. Lyon doesnt seem the sort of coach to take a risk. Sometimes it is exactly what is needed.

[kosi_23]

we cant hit targets either

[HoldenMCaulfield]

I hated the fact that we were not accountable under GT and we had too many goals kicked on us.

Now we cant kick enough goals !!! .. somewhere there has to be a happy medium. Lyon doesnt seem the sort of coach to take a risk. Sometimes it is exactly what is needed.

Statistics say a lot:

Average score per game:

2007 - for: 81.47 / against: 86.68 (first 19 games)

2006 - for: 93.05 / against: 79.64 (excl. finals)

2005 - for: 109.41 / against: 82.09 (excl. finals)

2004 - for: 111.05 / against: 86.77 (excl. finals)

We obviously scored more goals between 2004 and 2006 - but we also had less goals kicked against us !

Our scoring average this year is just marginally higher than that of 2002 (15th after Rd 22) and otherwise the worst of the last ten years !

I agree with StKildonan that the Sydney style is boring to watch, but our current results aren't really spectacular either ! It appears incomprehensible and almost ridiculous to score an average of less than 82 per game with Riewoldt, Gehrig, Koschitzke and Milne as (potential) forwards !

[ChrisFooty]

I disagree - he is clearly talented but has nowhere near the fitness level required for the level he is playing at. He needs to learn what work ethic truly means. He has to maintain his fitness this year and carry it into next season - putting in a massive preseason. His skills aren't done justice because of his lack of physical strength and especially fitness.

I understand your point. However, after seven seasons, he should already understand what work ethic really is. If he can't run a full game out, he should be sent back to casey.(There are players there putting their hand up for selection)

I saw some really poor decision making and poor kicking for goal. Not sure being at full fitness will solve these.

[swantastic]

.I want to watch entertaining football - not this junk.Junk yeh no worries,thats why we have been in the last 2 grannies cant say the same for the fantastic style of play the Saints use.So the last to grannies have been shite to watch,i reckon you've been out in the sun to much and its fried your brain because they were tuff hard games.Each team doesn't need to kick 100+ points for it to be an entertaining game.IMO your fellow supporters would take the Swans style of play any day if it would guarantee 2 cracks at the silverware.

[sauce_head]

Statistics say a lot:

Average score per game:

2007 - for: 81.47 / against: 86.68 (first 19 games)

2006 - for: 93.05 / against: 79.64 (excl. finals)

2005 - for: 109.41 / against: 82.09 (excl. finals)

2004 - for: 111.05 / against: 86.77 (excl. finals)

We obviously scored more goals between 2004 and 2006 - but we also had less goals kicked against us !

Our scoring average this year is just marginally higher than that of 2002 (15th after Rd 22) and otherwise the worst of the last ten years !

I agree with StKildonan that the Sydney style is boring to watch, but our current results aren't really spectacular either ! It appears incomprehensible and almost ridiculous to score an average of less than 82 per game with Riewoldt, Gehrig, Koschitzke and Milne as (potential) forwards !

Excellent point, our backline was vastly under rated in the past. I think we had the second best defence one year? Or maybe that was at half season.

However the style change is seen as a finals winning style. We won a few and could have won some more, so it was not that broken.

In any regard, you can not win finals without making it, so time will tell on this style of play.

[sainter_girl]

You've beaten us once in the last five meetings before tonight and on that occasion we were heavily compromised by injury. We always have played free flowing attacking football. We beat you on skill and flair.

You beat us tonight on exactly the opposite. You beat us on possession and ugly knock it out of bounds football.

I lament that you won using those tactics, but it is partly due to our own approach. Our coach was outsmarted by yours. We played your style of football and we played it poorer than you did. It was not smart. It was not pretty. In fact it was ugly.

What scares me is that if this goes on I may lose my passion for this game.

I want to watch entertaining football - not this junk.

I agree with StKildonan I want to watch a game of football, not something that is morphed between League & AFL.

That game was a complete shocker, Swans fans don't care about the crap they are served up each week, they just want to win.

Has ANYONE ever seen a Mexican wave at the football before? I couldn;t stop laughing when the crowd started doing a mexican wave ....

If I continue to watch such crap served up, I along with a lot of people are just going to stop watching .

[ChikoRoll]

I agree with StKildonan I want to watch a game of football, not something that is morphed between League & AFL.

That game was a complete shocker, Swans fans don't care about the crap they are served up each week, they just want to win.

Has ANYONE ever seen a Mexican wave at the football before? I couldn;t stop laughing when the crowd started doing a mexican wave ....

If I continue to watch such crap served up, I along with a lot of people are just going to stop watching .

eeerrr Ross Lyon is the man who brought the midfield flood to sydney. He now uses it on a weekly basis at the Saints. But hey the saionts merely get numbers back right?

Some of the inane comments by saints fans are incredible in this thread. No wonder you never do anything and have been a mediocre club for many seasons to come. i actually feel for Ross Lyon having to go backwards after being in such a professional set up.

And what is wrong with winning at all cost? I didn't know its become such a huge issue...i guess tanking is an accepted part of football in Victoria atm so winning at all costs doesn't matter.

Such a mediocre culture at St Kilda.

1 point infraction for trolling on a club board

[sainter_girl]

ha ha - ok lets assume you go for the swans (although I can see why you wouldn't publicly admit that).

I never said who was responsible for the flood, I said that it sucks - that sydney supporters don't give a rats how they win. I for one, have not enjoyed watching St kilda play this year.

You know, it's really funny that a club that had a 75 year gap in flags & has relocated because it couldn't survive is talking about mediocrity.

[ChikoRoll]

ha ha - ok lets assume you go for the swans (although I can see why you wouldn't publicly admit that).

I never said who was responsible for the flood, I said that it sucks - that sydney supporters don't give a rats how they win. I for one, have not enjoyed watching St kilda play this year.

You know, it's really funny that a club that had a 75 year gap in flags & has relocated because it couldn't survive is talking about mediocrity.

I am a swans fan.

We may have been mediocre for 60 of those years, but you can't fault us in the past 11 season. We have been consistent and have only missed out on the finals once and that was the year that we swapped Eade with Roos.

We are a shadow of the crap club we were once and we are the strongest we have been both on field and off field and have been for a long time now. I don't even remember the last time we were as crap as your rabble has been this year and in the past 11 years. Perfect example, you sack a coach who got you into the grand final the year before just cause some of the poor little players couldn't handle his aggressive approach to coaching.

And i still don't understand what is wrong at winning at all costs? Maybe if your club took this culture on board you wouldn't just have one single flag to show for all those years. What do you think eh?

2 points infraction for repeated trolling on a club board

[St DAC]

What do we think? We think you are a troll, so piss off back to habourside.

No doubt your mob deserved the win on Saturday night, and I'm not one lamenting about the gamestyle (I agree that winning form is good form, and bugger the purists) but I'd also prefer to watch a higher scoring entertaining spectacle rather than a floodfest, And both Sydney and St Kilda flood, let's not kid ourselves here. Most teams do now.

But you're in no position to toss hand grenades about "culture". You've won exactly the same number of premierships in the past 50 years as us ... one. And we haven't had the handouts and "cost of living" salary cap special deals that allowed your mob to pinch your last 2 power forwards from us.

So well done for the win, now toddle off back to your own board.

[Persevering Saint]

Okay, so it's troll, but let's give the guy a decent answer to his question - what's so wrong with just winning at all costs?

Here you go. The joy of winning comes, sir, at the END of the game, and is usually a state of enjoyment that's well, a big build up, then big intense moment, then relief. The intense moment is just that, a moment - five minutes. If it lasts at all afterwards, it's because of the build up - how the game was actually played out. Now, marry this with the fact that the game itself should be entertaining - it is not just a means to an end (winning), it is meant to be entertainment in and of itself - the drama of a player breaking a tackle, bouncing the ball three times as he charges into the 50m arc, he passes, receives a pass back, he kicks above the goal posts, we all wait, hush, then the goal ump pokes both fingers out, and the roar of the crowd. A game of footy isn't just one game, it's the collection of hundreds of little ones, little stories we love when we see them, and relish and remember for years afterwards. That's why watching two hours of footy is like watching a good two-hour movie.

But if all that the little games become are "stoppage, scrambled kick, stoppage" and "kick to loose players FOREVER on the backline" that's bad for three reasons. Firstly, the two hours of actually watching the game becomes dull - you might as well just look up the final score in the newspaper (if you don't believe me, compare NRL and AFL game attendances). And secondly, the big intense joy at victory is inherently linked to the buildup - lousy games leave a sour taste in the mouth. Finally, you have the flag, but Sydney doesn't have the stories. My dad still can tell me heaps of little stories from the Jeans era, and leave a glow as good as the one that comes from him telling me about winning the flag in 66. When you tell your kids about these "glorious" 11 years, all you'll be able to do is tell them where you finished in the ladder, and how many flags you won. If GT had been allowed to keep going, we'd tell stories of Thomas' team, of flow, drama, innovation... and a flag or two. When Lyon's coached at his best this year is when he's remembered what GT knew, and lived - footy is really an entertainment business, not a stat. When he's forgotten this and played it safe and defensive, we've lost anyway.

Long post, but I hope it's worthwhile. StKildonian, I understand exactly where you're coming from...

[sauce_head]

You are very correct, unfortunately.

I was so dimsayed at a game last year, against Richmond, which we won, that I did not really care about the result, I just wanted it to be over.

I am not sure how I would feel about that if we won a premiership though. But one thing is for sure, only one team a year can win a premiership, for the others it is all about the journey, and how entertaining it was.