Some comments on fan forums...

[footyman]

Very interesting article in the AFL Record this week talking about the draft process. More interesting were some comments from Carlton's Recruiting Manager Wayne Hughes regarding internet forums such as this...

"Forget what Hughes insists is the woefully inaccurate website speculation about who is going to be picked....False expectations are sometimes created by websites that suggest players are going to be drafted when the truth is not publicly known, he said. He suggests prospective players and those who know them ignore the sites completely".

Thoughts?

I think there is some merit to those comments. I feel that sometimes particular players are put on too greater pedistal on fan forums and its always a worry when too many definitive comments or too greater expectation is placed on young players. In an ideal world the players would probably avoid these sites, but most just want an idea about where they stand and because they havent heard from clubs or managers they tend to rely on what they can find out online.

[mulhollanddrive]

If you dont take the information as fact, a lot of the phantom drafts etc.. are fairly accurate opinions. If you take them as fact, they arent fact.

[Gilly1972]

If you trawl the Carlton forums, Kreuzer already has his navy blue jumper :rolleyes:

I think WH makes some valid points though. It is an uncertain, emotional time for potential draftees and their families and I know they do read these forums. Obviously our opinons (well some of us more than others :o) should be taken with a grain of salt, but it is hard not to pin your hopes on anything you can when you want something badly.

[Boy from the West]

These forums are for footy fan to express their opinions. If someone wants to totally believe everything that is said here and makes decisions regarding their own lives bsed on the opinions of unidentified people on a footy forum, those people are going to have a bumpy ride in life full of poor decisions.

We are having fun and expressing our opinions. That is all.

[HBF]

Perception is a funny thing, isn't it.

[ant555]

You will always get a bit of everything. It is the same as people evaluating AFL list's without having seen a lot of the players actually play footy.
I always steer clear of commenting on players i havnt seen play more than a couple of times and i would presume that people only see my comments on players as purely my opinion only. I never proclaim to be the draft guru which is why i dont participate in phantom drafts or even give my ideas on a full draft lists of where players will go.

[juddy_Like]

Well most of us got Gibbs to carlton right last year.

Suck on that!! :D

[macca69]

Very interesting article in the AFL Record this week talking about the draft process. More interesting were some comments from Carlton's Recruiting Manager Wayne Hughes regarding internet forums such as this...

"Forget what Hughes insists is the woefully inaccurate website speculation about who is going to be picked....False expectations are sometimes created by websites that suggest players are going to be drafted when the truth is not publicly known, he said. He suggests prospective players and those who know them ignore the sites completely".

Thoughts?


I may be way off base here, but this sounds a bit like Hughsey saying there's a strong possibility he won't pick Kruezer at #1 and is just preempting Carlton fans angry responses to his decision despite 95% of them not having seen him play and just assuming he's the standout player because of what's being branded about by the media and internet forums.

Anyone else read it that way?

[sinepari]

You could be on to something there Macca.

[Mero]

I may be way off base here, but this sounds a bit like Hughsey saying there's a strong possibility he won't pick Kruezer at #1 and is just preempting Carlton fans angry responses to his decision despite 95% of them not having seen him play and just assuming he's the standout player because of what's being branded about by the media and internet forums.

Anyone else read it that way?

I agree, you could read it that way.
Only problem is, the supporters think that way because they read names in the paper.
The papers write those names because the recruiting people tell them who they're looking at.
And then the recruiting people get their backs up when their own big mouths condition their supporters, who are ultimately their employers, into thinking that certain players are the best thing for their club since sliced bread.
So they have to take them or look foolish.

Had recruiters not been salivating over the big fella with all the skills, the general footy supporter wouldn't know the difference between Kreuzer and the kid who sells the icecreams at Telstra Dome.

[FIGJAM]

"Forget what Hughes insists is the woefully inaccurate website speculation about who is going to be picked....False expectations are sometimes created by websites that suggest players are going to be drafted when the truth is not publicly known, he said. He suggests prospective players and those who know them ignore the sites completely".

Thoughts?
It is speculation, but "woefully inaccurate"??

Take 2005 for example http://www.footydraft.com/category/2005-footydraftcom-mock-draft/ most players are generally selected in line with where they eventually went. BigFooty even pinned the Filth's first two selections accurately, in a very, very even draft.

Granted, the truth is not publically known. We can only guess. But then that's what speculation is now isn't it?!

Sound to me like Hughes is under a fair whack of stress and is, as macca suggests, needing to vent some frustration at the assumption that Kruezer is an auto #1. Whilst this may not be the truth, I recommend that he directs his tanties where they are warranted (ie. at the 'development' of the draftees...or lack thereof at Carlton), and not at supporters on the internet!

[Vic Crow]

It does seem a bit harsh. There are some good posters on here and I guess it's up to readers to sort the wheat from the chaff. I do take issue with the term "woefully inaccurate". It implies that we all have no idea what we're talking about. I'm a long time reader of the D + T board and have only really got into posting this year, but I can certainly recognise some very astute posters.

Besides, if the comments are specifically surrounding the belief that Kreuzer will go #1 then let me tell you we did not coin the term Kreuzer Cup on Big Footy (or Bryce Gibbs Cup for that matter). I'd be solely pointing my finger at the mainstream media for publicity around him and Carlton's first pick.

As far as building up expectation, did anyone see the episode of The Oval where Tim Bongetti was the guest. I can't remember the terms used, but Dwayne Russell flat out called him a monty to get drafted. He might've even said Top 30. THAT is building up expectation to the face of a kid who might not even get rookie listed.

Personally, I think Carlton should take Kreuzer with their first pick but the media are the reason why in some people's minds it is a foregone conclusion. I have found Gilly's comments about the validity of Cotchin being a possible #1 selection refreshing and interesting.

[Pafloyul]

That does not look like a direct quote to me, people. It could be just paraphrasing.

[over the top]

you cant stop guys posting absolute crap on this forum pumping up their mates and guys from their local club, etc. like macca said, you just gotta sort through some of the bulshit thats said on the site and focus on the posts from the guys who you know are always bang-on the money such as HBF, Gilly, ant555, etc. and for the most of the posters/readers who have been on the forum for a while, the crap can easily be sorted.

its up to the naive to believe in whats reality and whats just a heap of guys being pumped up by mates and such.

[FIGJAM]

That does not look like a direct quote to me, people. It could be just paraphrasing.
Maybe, but anyone paraphrasing with such strong language would want to be conveying the correct sentiment!

Irrespecive, "woefully inaccurate" is a woefully inaccurate observation. You can paraphrase me on that!

[The Royal Sampler]

WH could hardly accuse internet forums as the sole source of people proclaiming Kreuzer to be the #1 pick. It's in the papers every... single... day.

[footyman]

I may be way off base here, but this sounds a bit like Hughsey saying there's a strong possibility he won't pick Kruezer at #1 and is just preempting Carlton fans angry responses to his decision despite 95% of them not having seen him play and just assuming he's the standout player because of what's being branded about by the media and internet forums.

Anyone else read it that way?
I think you are spot on. It's similar to the other thread talking about media hype on Kreuzer. If Carlton choose someone else in 10 weeks time, their decision to pass on Kreuzer will be questioned by the media and by their fans immediately after the draft, for weeks after it and quite possibly years down the track if he ends up being one of the competitions elite - in a Richmond guernsey.

But the hype is now going to be too hard to defuse. Take this pearler from Mark Robinson in today's Herald Sun -
The Blues lost. They will take promising ruckman Matthew Kreuzer with their No. 1 pick in November's draft, and Carlton fans were deliriously happy.

[Gilly1972]

I think you are spot on. It's similar to the other thread talking about media hype on Kreuzer. If Carlton choose someone else in 10 weeks time, their decision to pass on Kreuzer will be questioned by the media and by their fans immediately after the draft, for weeks after it and quite possibly years down the track if he ends up being one of the competitions elite - in a Richmond guernsey.

But the hype is now going to be too hard to defuse. Take this pearler from Mark Robinson in today's Herald Sun -
The Blues lost. They will take promising ruckman Matthew Kreuzer with their No. 1 pick in November's draft, and Carlton fans were deliriously happy.

I must admit I saw that too footyman and was immediately angered. Not because it is such an outrageous concept, but how can a rational journalist possibly write such a definitive statement as will. What an arrogant buffoon. To a degree, I can understand people writing that on these forums, but a journalist should have a bit more common sense and integreity than that. If in fact the media have spoken to recruiters about the potential number one pick, I suspect it is not necessarily the RM's and can absolutely say with 99.8% confidence that nothing has been said to the media by WH. I suspect most recruiters in the country when asked that question will off the top of their heads go with the safe response of Kreuzer.

Kreuzer could go on to be a comp elite, but then so could Cotchin, heck so could Hampson if his development continues, then Carlton have both and WH looks like a genius.

I'm not sure I buy the theory that WH said that as he has somebody else in mind to call out at #1....he might well do, he might not, he might not make a decision until after Draft Camp and the TAC finals, I suspect the latter is actually the case even if he has a good idea of what he is going to do now.....of course Mark Robinson knows better :rolleyes::thumbsd:.

Oh, as an aside, If WH does call out Cotchin at #1 come Nov 24, you can rest assured that I will personally attend to all complaints and queries on the Carlton board ;):eek::thumbsu:

[Vic Crow]

I must admit I saw that too footyman and was immediately angered. Not because it is such an outrageous concept, but how can a rational journalist possibly write such a definitive statement as will.
Sounds like you just said "Robbo" is a rational journalist.

Wash your mouth out with soap. :p

[Gilly1972]

Sounds like you just said "Robbo" is a rational journalist.

Wash your mouth out with soap. :p

I must need a drink :p:D

[HBF]

I reckon Mark Robinson has never even seen Kreuzer play. Just becuase all the hype is about the young man, Robbo thought he better get his "Kreuzer quota" by the time the draft comes around. :eek:

[Vic Crow]

I should've have rang in yesterday on SEN. He has a Monday spot with Mark Doran from noon each week I believe.

[sydney eagle]

One obvious reason why everyone is saying that Carlton is most likely to draft Kruezer is the ordinary performance of Carlton's existing ruck division. Kruezer seems to be the outstanding ruck prospect in the draft; Carlton's ruck division badly needs improvement. It would seem only logical that Carlton would draft a player with a lot of promise to cover a glaring deficiency !

[foj1]

One obvious reason why everyone is saying that Carlton is most likely to draft Kruezer is the ordinary performance of Carlton's existing ruck division. Kruezer seems to be the outstanding ruck prospect in the draft; Carlton's ruck division badly needs improvement. It would seem only logical that Carlton would draft a player with a lot of promise to cover a glaring deficiency !

I dont know how hughes can get away with speaking such rubbish. I feel like he picked Gibbs last year instead of Leuenberger because of pressure and he is feeling pressure again so he is going to blame posters on websites?
Sounds like he needs to be strong enough to make his own decisions.
Saying that Kruezer is a monty to be Number 1 in my opinion because he is the best player in the draft pool with a significant upside.

[Weaver]

There is an inherent contradiction is his statement.

1. People in the know ignore fan forums because they are innacurate.
2. I know the forums are inaccurate because I have read them.

Of course fans predictions are going to be wrong. Only Hughes knows what Hughes is going to do. By the time you get to 16 clubs and 10 guys at each club having their say you have 150+ opinions shaping the draft.

Us amateurs are just one opinion in contrast and not privy to what the 150 who matter are actually thinking.

That said we do a pretty good job at getting close to the mark. We tend to identify most of the guys who make it to draft camp well in advance.

And perhaps more than predicting who will get taken, I think those of us who post regularly do pretty well at informing the fans of our club about what types of players we've taken after the event.

For mine that is the key thing. If we relied on the media and clubs to tell us about the players our club has taken, and to say if we have done well or not ... we'd be stuffed.