Trent Cotchin or Matt Kreuzer?

[bluesforever]

Just thought I would start an early thread on who we would prefer at Carlton. I cannot decide, Kreuzer is a very good ruckman but also creeps forward and can kick bags where as Cotchin plays midfield and can also kick a few goals off the half forward line... maybe we don't need a Kreuzer as much as we think with Hampson going a little above expectation.

Anyways who would you prefer at this stage and why?

[Jeremias]

I'm changing my top 3 approximately every 5 minutes.

Right now I'm leaning towards Kruezer, but will be back with Cotchin pretty soon.

I just can't split the top few. I thank the lord that I don't have to make the decisions that count.

[Pamam]

ill take Kreuzer!!

but Cotchin is doing everything he possibly can to make sure its a hard choice!!

[blues4flag]

Kreuzer. There'll be a gun midfielder around at pick 3.

[gandaal]

Kreuzer. There'll be a gun midfielder around at pick 3.

Or we could take two gun midfielders

[jj1978]

I got the feeling last year that all the hype and expectations surrounding Gibbs that he was the No1 lad was part of the reason why he got over the line. I seriously think we were that close to picking Luenberger and the deciding factor was the expectation that Gibbs was the man.

Now this year we have a similar scenario... Cotchin or Kreuzer... I've seen them both play a game or two so I can't reserve super judgement.. but I hope all this media talk (esp the commentators on Fox last night) saying after we lost that Kreuzer is on his way to Carlton does not influence our decision. If these two players are inseparable who would we take? At this moment to me it's a hard decision as Kreuzer could become a key forward or ruck and Cotchin would prob only be midfielder. And we seriously need both kinds of players.

[one_twelve112]

This will be a tough call for the selectors.

I'll sit on the fence.

[gandaal]

At this moment to me it's a hard decision as Kreuzer could become a key forward or ruck and Cotchin would prob only be midfielder. And we seriously need both kinds of players.

We need an experienced ruck, we don't need an inexperienced one. We've got three of those already. But by all means if he's the best available we should take him.

Don't worry about Gibbs. If the situation was reversed, Gibbs went to Essendon and we had Leuenburger Carlton supporters would be lighting torches and tying up nooses on the trees around Optus Oval. Gibbs will be a gun :thumbsu:

[Funkalicous]

The big man Kreuzer can play ruck or be an impossible matchup in the forward line. Clearly the best player in this year's draft pool.

We have pick 3 for a mid as well..

[Gilly1972]

The big man Kreuzer can play ruck or be an impossible matchup in the forward line. Clearly the best player in this year's draft pool.

We have pick 3 for a mid as well..

How many times have you seen Cotchin play Funky?
:confused:

I'm glad you've got it clear, you have one up on the recruiters then :p.

[gandaal]

How many times have you seen Cotchin play Funky?
:confused:

I'm glad you've got it clear, you have one up on the recruiters then :p.

I was wondering the same thing myself.

[Funkalicous]

How many times have you seen Cotchin play Funky?
:confused:

I'm glad you've got it clear, you have one up on the recruiters then :p.

Cotchin will probably be Tiger scum, so don't expect me to pump up his tyres. :p

[Gilly1972]

Look, I still think the club will take Kreuzer, but I don't think it is as clear cut as people make out. I realise I have said this ad-nauseum so people will be sick of hearing it from me, but ask posters like HBF and The God Rakim who have seen these kids a lot this year, Cotchin has very good claims to being taken at #1 too. In fact many recruiters could very well make a case for Ben McEvoy to be in the top 5, so if we do want to draft a ruckman, that also brings the Cotchin/McEvoy combination into play. With TAC finals and draft camp to come (where the interviews also play a big part in who we take) then I am pretty sure nothing is locked in just yet.

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Scenario 1:

#1 - Kreuzer
#2 - Cotchin
#3 - Masten

We get a great mobile ruckman who is said to be the creme of this years crop and also can cause havoc in the forward line with his size and agillity - besides the fact we are already crying out for ruckmen, and he would add to the athletic and tall combo of Aisake and Hammo.

Assuming Richmond take Cotchin at 2 - we need to address our midfield before taking any flashy Goddard like flankers in Morton. Therefore I think Masten at #3 would be a fantastic addition to our midfield as he is hard running and very in and under - is a class or 2 above both Bentick and Blackers atm.

Scenario 2

#1 - Cotchin
#2 - Kreuzer
#3 - Morton

Taking Cotchin at #1 would be the first step taken to address our growing midfield a player with great disposal on both sides and Judd like explosiveness at times (as Im told) would do wonders working in tandem with a future midfield that includes the likes of Murphy, Carrots, Stevens, Gibbs along with any other midfielders we may pick up later on in the draft.

Assuming Richmond take Kreuzer at #2, we could add Morton to our ranks - he'd be payback for the Goddard we missed out on in 2002, 192 cm utillity who can hit a team mate lace out over 60 meters (according to Gilly his kicking is very Shannon Hurn like). As we've taken Cotchin at #1 - we have addressed our midfield and can now add a tallish flanker/winger with sublime disposal.

If this scenario were to take place - we would have to bank on the slim hope that another classy ruckman like McEvoy would slide to pick #20 - which although unlikely may happen (but I wouldnt hold my breath). However, I feel that we should select Patrick Veszpremi at #20 - a big bodied midfielder againb with superb disposal (not on Morton's level though) who would need to work on his tank could be just what the Dr ordered for us.

Either Vesz at #20 or someone like Tayte Pears - who could be a future CHB.

[AndyWalkersGirl]

Look, I still think the club will take Kreuzer, but I don't think it is as clear cut as people make out. I realise I have said this ad-nauseum so people will be sick of hearing it from me, but ask posters like HBF and The God Rakim who have seen these kids a lot this year, Cotchin has very good claims to being taken at #1 too. In fact many recruiters could very well make a case for Ben McEvoy to be in the top 5, so if we do want to draft a ruckman, that also brings the Cotchin/McEvoy combination into play. With TAC finals and draft camp to come (where the interviews also play a big part in who we take) then I am pretty sure nothing is locked in just yet.

HOw can you say that with any authority Gilly? Are you on the carlton board/mc/coaching panel/draft scout etc????? :eek::eek:

No, so how dare you use the word "sure" when you cannot be, infact, sure.

:cool:;):p (Just getting you back hombre).

[bLuEbOy1984]

i want morton and kreuzer

[gandaal]

i want morton and kreuzer

And if BF was taking our picks that's probably how it will turn out. Of course we wouldn't pick up another player for the entire draft but that's how it goes sometimes.

[prettyboy65]

Kreuzer imo is the way to go. now please no 1 hammer me for this but i just think that a mobile ruckman who can take a mark like he can is what we need. He plays at Dandenong stingrays with a few of my mates and they say he is just like having another midfielder playing with them. He can match the speed of most midfielders and has a great kick on him.

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Im endorsing Kreuzer from this point on ...

[prettyboy65]

Yo`DooR;8620855']Im endorsing Kreuzer from this point on ...
Its the way to go

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Heres an outdated article on him, from back in June - FYI its funny how it says:

TONIGHT'S MCG clash between cellar dwellers Richmond and Melbourne may provide the loser with one of the most accomplished young footballers of the past decade.

:D

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Here's another from 2005 - when Matt was a 16 year old

http://www.starnewsgroup.com.au/story/1519

[blues2010]

Kreuzer imo is the way to go. now please no 1 hammer me for this but i just think that a mobile ruckman who can take a mark like he can is what we need. He plays at Dandenong stingrays with a few of my mates and they say he is just like having another midfielder playing with them. He can match the speed of most midfielders and has a great kick on him.
???? Kreuzer plays for Northern Knights. Don't know what your mates are on about

[Gilly1972]

Yo`DooR;8620898']Here's another from 2005 - when Matt was a 16 year old

http://www.starnewsgroup.com.au/story/1519

Well, that's sold me C4 :confused::p

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Well, that's sold me C4 :confused::p
Good to hear, Dodoro ;)

[prettyboy65]

Yo`DooR;8620878']Heres an outdated article on him, from back in June - FYI its funny how it says:



:D
u got a link for that?

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

u got a link for that?
Sorry Dude ..

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,20330442%255E19742,00.html

[prettyboy65]

???? Kreuzer plays for Northern Knights. Don't know what your mates are on about
soz mate i ment to say against

[WALKERTOBETTS]

I'd take a utility player over a midfield, given we lose a retired utility player and would gain one, Kouta - Kreuzer, (I'm not saying that he would turn out that way) but if he did, having Waite and Kreuzer or another utility player at your expense, that's if Kreuzer makes it and gets a have a few pre-seasons under his belt would show's what power and strength he can create will know alot more, he would be very imposing to match up on. We haven't got many utility players. Would like to know? if Kreuzer is a type of player that could turn out like a Chad Cornes, and is he anywhere near at the same development stage as what Chad was at his age? for those that would've seen Chad play footy in his junior days? interested to know anyone's views.

[Aussie Joe]

I'm changing my top 3 approximately every 5 minutes.

Right now I'm leaning towards Kruezer, but will be back with Cotchin pretty soon.

I just can't split the top few. I thank the lord that I don't have to make the decisions that count.

Same.

But then I realize that Kruezer is can be much more than just a tap ruckman, and I am sold.

But that said, if we got Cotchin and Masten I would be happy as well. Given we have the Hammer and Aisake ready to take over the rucking duties.

[footy_paul]

I think with picks 1 and 3 you may get lucky and get Kruzer at 1 and cotchin at 3. Their are big raps on players such as morton and ebert etc, and this may be a suprise selection at 2 by richmond (collingwood with thomas at pick 2 in 05) either way you have too take kruzer with pick 1, most talented big man, and their are a lot of talented mids pick 2 onwards. :thumbsu: FYI i think Gibbs will be a star, so for his own supporters stop bagging him and actually let him get a pre-season under his belt:cool:

[HBF]

Kreuzer imo is the way to go. now please no 1 hammer me for this but i just think that a mobile ruckman who can take a mark like he can is what we need. He plays at Dandenong stingrays with a few of my mates and they say he is just like having another midfielder playing with them. He can match the speed of most midfielders and has a great kick on him.

You're not talking about Stephen Gaertner, are you?
He's 198cm, and can run like the wind. Played on the wing :eek: earlier in the year, which is just amazing for someone so tall. Recently, he has been played at FB.

[TheGeneral]

There should have been a fourth option - Cotchin and Kreuzer:Richmond will pick another stringbean or vanilla midget at two. :p :D

I voted don't know.

[Mero]

Carlton will get both Cotchin and Kreuzer.
Richmond will take Morton, and will do a trade for his brother from West Coast.

[Gilly1972]

Carlton will get both Cotchin and Kreuzer.
Richmond will take Morton, and will do a trade for his brother from West Coast.

I hope you are right :thumbsu:

[HBF]

Carlton will get both Cotchin and Kreuzer.
Richmond will take Morton, and will do a trade for his brother from West Coast.

I read about that on the Richmond Board. Mitch Morton to Richmond, and Coughlan to West Coast, with some other players and draft picks involved I would imagine.

Makes sense for Richmond to take Cale Morton, they need some quality talls, and Cale is certainly that.

[HBF]

I hope you are right :thumbsu:

So do I Mr. Gilly.
If this happened, I reckon i'd be drunk up until Xmas. Seriously!

[anth22]

Must pick up kreuzer, a lot harder to find highly talented mibole ruckman/kpp types later in the draft. Midfielders are a lot easier to find and easier to develop.
Look at Hawthorn, took Kpps followed my midfielders. Richmond did the opposite. Both had 5 picks in top 20 in 2004, were in the same poition, yet Hawthorn seems to have a better core group to build around and having better results than Richmond. They are always recruiting kpps with 1rd picks and have still managed to pick up elite midfielders with later picks.

[BluesRules]

Kreuzer. There'll be a gun midfielder around at pick 3.

:thumbsu:

Kreuzer is a rare player. Cotchin is a gun, but pick 3 can be used to select a player that is just as talented as Cotchin.

I have questions on Palmer and Masten, especially Palmer.

I would go for Morton/Ebert

[HBF]

:thumbsu:

Kreuzer is a rare player. Cotchin is a gun, but pick 3 can be used to select a player that is just as talented as Cotchin.

I have questions on Palmer and Masten, especially Palmer.

I would go for Morton/Ebert

I'm having another look at the VM/WA game this week, plus a WAFL game next week with both of these boys playing.

[BluesRules]

I'm having another look at the VM/WA game this week, plus a WAFL game next week with both of these boys playing.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts:thumbsu::)

[The Old Dark Navy's]

So do I Mr. Gilly.
If this happened, I reckon i'd be drunk up until Xmas. Seriously!Role reversal ... cool.

[BluesRules]

I remember hearing Ratts a couple of weeks ago say that we want a tall, quick, versatile mid/utilty. With these comments I have locked in Morton at 3. Unless, for some unknown reason Richmond overlook Cotchin. If Cotchin is selected at 2 Morton will be ours at 3. But, if Richmond overlook Cotchin, we will jump on him in a second. Even if Richmond go for Masten at 2, I think we will jump on Cotchin ahead of Morton.

[Gilly1972]

So do I Mr. Gilly.
If this happened, I reckon i'd be drunk up until Xmas. Seriously!

You know me, I'll be drunk up until Xmas anyway ;):p

[HBF]

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts:thumbsu::)

Give me a couple of weeks. Want to have a pretty thorough look at the tapes, and see what I can get out of it when I watched it live.

[HBF]

Role reversal ... cool.

I've obviously been spending way to much time with Gilly. Way way too much time. :cool:

[BluesRules]

Give me a couple of weeks. Want to have a pretty thorough look at the tapes, and see what I can get out of it when I watched it live.

You should replace Hughes.:thumbsu:

[Gilly1972]

You should replace Hughes.:thumbsu:

Oh god, please no :p:eek:

[Calcium Man]

Carlton will get both Cotchin and Kreuzer.
Richmond will take Morton, and will do a trade for his brother from West Coast.

Well i hope your wrong.

Must pick up kreuzer, a lot harder to find highly talented mibole ruckman/kpp types later in the draft. Midfielders are a lot easier to find and easier to develop.
Look at Hawthorn, took Kpps followed my midfielders. Richmond did the opposite. Both had 5 picks in top 20 in 2004, were in the same poition, yet Hawthorn seems to have a better core group to build around and having better results than Richmond. They are always recruiting kpps with 1rd picks and have still managed to pick up elite midfielders with later picks.

Hawthorn actually got there midfield right before selecting the talls in 04. The core of their midfield. Mitchell, Crawford, hodge, bateman, sewell and clarke was picked up before that. Lewis is really the only player that they have added to that group. Maybe Mcglynn.

[Gilly1972]

Well i hope your wrong.



Hawthorn actually got there midfield right before selecting the talls in 04. The core of their midfield. Mitchell, Crawford, hodge, bateman, sewell and clarke was picked up before that. Lewis is really the only player that they have added to that group. Maybe Mcglynn.

I don't know, Morton won the Larke medal, is extremely versatile and mobile for his height, has elite skills....don't believe what you read about Morton being a skinny tweener, he is class and the real deal. I dare say if this doesn't happen and assuming Kruezer/Cotchin go 1 and 2 that we would just about have Morton rated a close third anyway. This way you offload Coughlan back to WA and get M. Morton, who has longer in the game and no dodgy knee, plus probably some other upgrading of draft picks or a fringe player. Plus you draft Cale who could pretty much play anywhere for you (down back, up forward, tall wingman).

[RiteBak@Ya]

:thumbsu:

Kreuzer is a rare player. Cotchin is a gun, but pick 3 can be used to select a player that is just as talented as Cotchin.

I have questions on Palmer and Masten, especially Palmer.

I would go for Morton/Ebert

I think you are pretty spot on. Ratts did indicate a tall mid so Morton would come into calculation. I think Cotchin will be available.

I dont think Richmond will take Cotchin. They picked up similar players in Deledio and Tambling and also habe N.Brown and Pettifer (Flankers). I believ they will look at Masten, Morton or Palmer.

Carlton need a mid/ flanker like Cotchin. Melbourne will go for Mcevoy. My tip is for top 5:

Kruezer - Carlton
Masten - Richmond
Cotchin - Cartlon
Mcevoy - Melbourne
Morton - Melbourne

[Calcium Man]

I don't know, Morton won the Larke medal, is extremely versatile and mobile for his height, has elite skills....don't believe what you read about Morton being a skinny tweener, he is class and the real deal. I dare say if this doesn't happen and assuming Kruezer/Cotchin go 1 and 2 that we would just about have Morton rated a close third anyway. This way you offload Coughlan back to WA and get M. Morton, who has longer in the game and no dodgy knee, plus probably some other upgrading of draft picks or a fringe player. Plus you draft Cale who could pretty much play anywhere for you (down back, up forward, tall wingman).

Its not that i dont think Morton is a quality player. I just dont want another flanker/wingman/utility at the tiges. We have an over abundance of them.

From what i have seen of mitch is he has a terrible attitude. Certainly has class but im not sure we need another front runner at the club.

[Calcium Man]

I think you are pretty spot on. Ratts did indicate a tall mid so Morton would come into calculation. I think Cotchin will be available.

I dont think Richmond will take Cotchin. They picked up similar players in Deledio and Tambling and also habe N.Brown and Pettifer (Flankers). I believ they will look at Masten, Morton or Palmer.

Carlton need a mid/ flanker like Cotchin. Melbourne will go for Mcevoy. My tip is for top 5:

Kruezer - Carlton
Masten - Richmond
Cotchin - Cartlon
Mcevoy - Melbourne
Morton - Melbourne

Melbourne dont have pick 4 and 5.

I sort of agree with what you are saying about Cotchin. But if we believe he will become a midfielder in the future i cant see us passing on him. Will probably depend on his draft camp results.

[The Grover]

I think you are pretty spot on. Ratts did indicate a tall mid so Morton would come into calculation. I think Cotchin will be available.

I dont think Richmond will take Cotchin. They picked up similar players in Deledio and Tambling and also habe N.Brown and Pettifer (Flankers). I believ they will look at Masten, Morton or Palmer.

Carlton need a mid/ flanker like Cotchin. Melbourne will go for Mcevoy. My tip is for top 5:

Kruezer - Carlton
Masten - Richmond
Cotchin - Cartlon
Mcevoy - Melbourne
Morton - Melbourne

I think that should read Western Bulldogs, they will be upset if they don't get McEvoy.

[The Grover]

Did anyone hear Brett Ratten get interviewed on Foxtel before yesterdays game.

I only heard the end I think he was talking about watching Kreuzer & Cotchin on saturday.

[RiteBak@Ya]

I think that should read Western Bulldogs, they will be upset if they don't get McEvoy.

Yes meant the doggies

[banzai]

I think you are pretty spot on. Ratts did indicate a tall mid so Morton would come into calculation. I think Cotchin will be available.

I dont think Richmond will take Cotchin. They picked up similar players in Deledio and Tambling and also habe N.Brown and Pettifer (Flankers). I believ they will look at Masten, Morton or Palmer.

Carlton need a mid/ flanker like Cotchin. Melbourne will go for Mcevoy. My tip is for top 5:

Kruezer - Carlton
Masten - Richmond
Cotchin - Cartlon
Mcevoy - Melbourne
Morton - Melbourne

Why do you consider Cotchin a flanker? i have never seen him play but from all reports he is a genuine midfielder. We wont pass on Cotchin as the club was very impressed with him when he trained at Richmond in January, the fact that he is Victorian helps over Morton from WA and he is also a Richmond supporter. Kreuzer and Cotchin will go 1 and 2 in the draft, obviously the order is Carltons choice.

[TGR]

Look, I still think the club will take Kreuzer, but I don't think it is as clear cut as people make out. .



Agree, talent wise IMO there is no gap between them. The thing that separates Kruezer is that ruckman of his quality are rare but mid-fielders of class seem to be about most drafts. No decision would have been made as yet as the draft camp can reveal things about players that you won't see on the field. However Kruezer has to be the hot favourite, but It'll burn to see Trent apply his considerable abilty in the yellow and black.:(

[Coultz]

What about Palmer with pick 3 if we dont get Cotchin? ..
Really like the look of him..

[Kouta_legend]

Boys theres no contest, the only way we would not take Kruezer is if Cotchin turned out to be ALOT better than Kruezer and the fact is, he isnt, Kruezer may in fact be better.

WHY the hell would we take anotherrrr midfielder, Superstar #1 Ruckman is the sort of player you build your team around

Use picks #3 and so on for Midfielders

Cotchin is a star, but for our team Carlton takin him would be a no-brainer

Well c after this weekend at Princes Park

[richmond fanatic]

Guy, guys.......guys. Sorry to interrupt your wishful thinking, but there is no chance that you'll get Cotchin at 3. There is absolutely no way.

Cotchin is a Richmond supporter, and hes already been down to the club doing training sessions. All we need from the Blues is for you guys to take Kreuzer, and Cotchin is a certainty to be at Richmond next year.

[blues2010]

Guy, guys.......guys. Sorry to interrupt your wishful thinking, but there is no chance that you'll get Cotchin at 3. There is absolutely no way.

Cotchin is a Richmond supporter, and hes already been down to the club doing training sessions. All we need from the Blues is for you guys to take Kreuzer, and Cotchin is a certainty to be at Richmond next year.
no he isn't. Geelong supporter. Either way I think Carlton and Richmond will get some talent. If one misses Cotchin then Palmer to me is a good pickup or there are a few mids in the mix

[trueblue_91]

Guy, guys.......guys. Sorry to interrupt your wishful thinking, but there is no chance that you'll get Cotchin at 3. There is absolutely no way.

Cotchin is a Richmond supporter, and hes already been down to the club doing training sessions. All we need from the Blues is for you guys to take Kreuzer, and Cotchin is a certainty to be at Richmond next year.

You will get cotchin at 2 if we take Kreuzer... both look like guns though so i don't mind:thumbsu:

here are Kreuzer's stats in the TAC cup

http://www.sportingpulse.com/nf/team_info.cgi?player=Matt%20Kreuzer&action=PSTATS&pID=123051527&client=1-3020-0-52873-5262046

and these are cotchins

http://www.sportingpulse.com/nf/team_info.cgi?player=Trent%20Cotchin&action=PSTATS&pID=143804335&client=1-3020-0-52873-5262046

[HBF]

Guy, guys.......guys. Sorry to interrupt your wishful thinking, but there is no chance that you'll get Cotchin at 3. There is absolutely no way.

Cotchin is a Richmond supporter, and hes already been down to the club doing training sessions. All we need from the Blues is for you guys to take Kreuzer, and Cotchin is a certainty to be at Richmond next year.

Like Blues2010 said, he is a Geelong supporter. Don't confuse him training with Richmond earlier in the year and him supporting the club as being mutually exclusive.

Pat Veszpremi trained with Carlton over the Summer, and Vesz follows Collingwood.

[scorpion2466]

Guy, guys.......guys. Sorry to interrupt your wishful thinking, but there is no chance that you'll get Cotchin at 3. There is absolutely no way.

Cotchin is a Richmond supporter, and hes already been down to the club doing training sessions. All we need from the Blues is for you guys to take Kreuzer, and Cotchin is a certainty to be at Richmond next year.

The word is that Ratten is very keen on Cotchin. I suspect though that Kruezer will go No.1 as we need a Ruckman. If Richmond go for Cotchin then Palmer or Morton will go at No.3.

[HBF]

The word is that Ratten is very keen on Cotchin. I suspect though that Kruezer will go No.1 as we need a Ruckman. If Richmond go for Cotchin then Palmer or Morton will go at No.3.

Gilly will be happy then.

[richmond fanatic]

Like Blues2010 said, he is a Geelong supporter. Don't confuse him training with Richmond earlier in the year and him supporting the club as being mutually exclusive.

Pat Veszpremi trained with Carlton over the Summer, and Vesz follows Collingwood.
Sorry about that, I was obvisously mis-informed.

Just one other question, all this media hype about Krezuer, will it put pressure on Carlton to pick him up with 1, even though they may think Cotchin is the better player (which I think so)?

[TGR]

Sorry about that, I was obvisously mis-informed.

Just one other question, all this media hype about Krezuer, will it put pressure on Carlton to pick him up with 1, even though they may think Cotchin is the better player (which I think so)?

Wayne Hughes will not bow to media pressure and if he picks Kreuzer then rest assured he believes he IS the best player.

[jonoman89]

based on the above stats i'd be going for kreuzer for sure. he has good disposal, hitouts and goal count. his position as the #1 pick will also add weight to his selection - he will be tagged heavier freeing up other positions and will be worth more in the (hopefully unlikely) event of a trade. He is also a harcore ruckman, adding to his worth.

There is also gonna be a lot of good mid-field depth in pick 3, and if we get say pick 4-7 next year we will also get another good midfielder.

1) Kreuzer
3) Cotchin or other good midfielder
17) KP defender

[AndyWalkersGirl]

Palmer looks very very good... also a slight touch of cockiness.:o

[Gilly1972]

The word is that Ratten is very keen on Cotchin. I suspect though that Kruezer will go No.1 as we need a Ruckman. If Richmond go for Cotchin then Palmer or Morton will go at No.3.

I am not surprised Ratten is very keen on Cotchin, he was there on Saturday to see first hand what a top Cotchin display looks like. He is exactly the type of midfielder we need. There is another good ruckman floating around in McEvoy, fair enough he is no Kreuzer, but #3 would not be too much of a reach for McEvoy IMO. If we see Cotch as being the best fit for our midfield I think our ruck stocks would be nicely rounded off with McEvoy at #3.

[walkers a legend]

Palmer looks very very good... also a slight touch of cockiness.:odefinatly a lot of cockiness when i seen him play in the wafl

[Blue Ball Fever]

based on the above stats i'd be going for kreuzer for sure. he has good disposal, hitouts and goal count. his position as the #1 pick will also add weight to his selection - he will be tagged heavier freeing up other positions and will be worth more in the (hopefully unlikely) event of a trade. He is also a harcore ruckman, adding to his worth.

There is also gonna be a lot of good mid-field depth in pick 3, and if we get say pick 4-7 next year we will also get another good midfielder.

1) Kreuzer
3) Cotchin or other good midfielder
17) KP defender
A ruckman being tagged? and freeing up other positions?? Am I missing something?

[TGR]

I am not surprised Ratten is very keen on Cotchin, he was there on Saturday to see first hand what a top Cotchin display looks like. He is exactly the type of midfielder we need. There is another good ruckman floating around in McEvoy, fair enough he is no Kreuzer, but #3 would not be too much of a reach for McEvoy IMO. If we see Cotch as being the best fit for our midfield I think our ruck stocks would be nicely rounded off with McEvoy at #3.


If we pass on Kreuz for Cotch then I'd prefer to go for 2 mids and back the ruckman on our list. I've seen the best of McEvoy which is impressive but I've also seen the worst ( which is Ray Hall like :D).

Say Cotchin at 1.

Then maybe 1 of Ebert, Masten, Palmer or Morton at 3.

Then maybe a Sullivan, Simpson or one of the other touted ruckman further down the order to sure up the ruck stocks if we feel we are 1 short.

[whippersnipper]

Surely we would take Kreuzer. I've had a much better look at him of late, and he just looks something special. I think those reports of him playing as an extra midfielder are spot on. Just has so much versatility- a really complete footballer.

Having taken Gibbs and Murph at 1 the last two years, I think we would be crazy if we didnt take Kreuzer this year.

[AndyWalkersGirl]

Surely we would take Kreuzer. I've had a much better look at him of late, and he just looks something special. I think those reports of him playing as an extra midfielder are spot on. Just has so much versatility- a really complete footballer.

Having taken Gibbs and Murph at 1 the last two years, I think we would be crazy if we didnt take Kreuzer this year.

Don't say 'surely' as it makes Gilly mad ;):p

[jonoman89]

A ruckman being tagged? and freeing up other positions?? Am I missing something?

woops

[HBF]

I am not surprised Ratten is very keen on Cotchin, he was there on Saturday to see first hand what a top Cotchin display looks like. He is exactly the type of midfielder we need. There is another good ruckman floating around in McEvoy, fair enough he is no Kreuzer, but #3 would not be too much of a reach for McEvoy IMO. If we see Cotch as being the best fit for our midfield I think our ruck stocks would be nicely rounded off with McEvoy at #3.

With respect mate, #3 for McEvoy is far to much of a reach for McEvoy. I can see him going in the 10-20 range, but #3, well that is far too much of a stretch IMO.

I tend to agree with TGR here. IF we do go with Cotchin at #1, then I would prefer a Morton, a Masten or a Palmer at #3, and then take a ruckman later in the draft.

[Gilly1972]

With respect mate, #3 for McEvoy is far to much of a reach for McEvoy. I can see him going in the 10-20 range, but #3, well that is far too much of a stretch IMO.

I tend to agree with TGR here. IF we do go with Cotchin at #1, then I would prefer a Morton, a Masten or a Palmer at #3, and then take a ruckman later in the draft.

No respect needed mate, you have your opinion and I have mine ;). I don't think #3 is too much of a reach based on my rankings and he is the only other ruckman I rate. As I think we need a midfileder who plays taller than 180cm, with the ability to break away from the stoppages, has good pace and excellent skills, I rate taking the only midfielder who fits that bill at #1 higher than the best ruck talent. If we then definitely want a ruckman, McEvoy is the only other one worth using a pick on IMO.

[TheHeatleyStand]

Take a gun tall over a gun midfielder anyday.
Its kind of like do you take Riewoldt/Kosi or Didak?

We will still have a crack at another midfield (Morton?)

And next year.. we will get another top 6 pick.. and midfielders are always around.. good talls arent.

Lets not try and fix all of our problems in one draft.. it isnt possible.
Both are going to be great... but Ill take the ruckman/forward this time and bolster up my ranks of midfielders with pick 3 and next year... when we get another crack with a top 6 pick in a strong draft..where as usual there will be more midfielders on show but talls will again be at a premium to clubs less stocked up than us in them.

[TGR]

No respect needed mate, you have your opinion and I have mine ;). I don't think #3 is too much of a reach based on my rankings and he is the only other ruckman I rate. As I think we need a midfileder who plays taller than 180cm, with the ability to break away from the stoppages, has good pace and excellent skills, I rate taking the only midfielder who fits that bill at #1 higher than the best ruck talent. If we then definitely want a ruckman, McEvoy is the only other one worth using a pick on IMO.


As you know, I could more than live with Cotchin at 1:thumbsu:. McEvoy on the other hand will require some convincing at 3:D. I think the gap between Kreuzer being able to fulfill being an elite talent and McEvoy is quite large. Not sure the gulf is so wide with Cotchin and the other available mids.

[Gilly1972]

As you know, I could more than live with Cotchin at 1:thumbsu:. McEvoy on the other hand will require some convincing at 3:D. I think the gap between Kreuzer being able to fulfill being an elite talent and McEvoy is quite large. Not sure the gulf is so wide with Cotchin and the other available mids.

Perhaps but I would put to you:

a) none of the other mids quite fit our midfield requirements quite as nicely as Cotch does...he ticks all the right boxes that we need

b) The other mids are likely to be accomplished afl midfielders but IMO only Cotchin probably has the potential to go that extra step to eilite

c) McEvoy may not be as good below his knees, but marks everything that comes his way :), with development i see the gap between McEvoy and KKreuzer closing

[DaveyBlues]

personally i worry with Red's career being seemingly over and growing concerns of Fev leaving that we need another power forward to fall back on. or what about a key backman? can we pick a bargain in the draft for those areas?

[TheHeatleyStand]

As our midfield develops so to will our team.
The more our midfield dominates the more opportunity forwards have and the less frequent attacks into our defence come.
So i see where Gilly is going with Cotchin.....he will be an absolute gun. im not sold on him being able to come straight into the AFL as a midfielder though and he might be a half frward for a while...

Regardless.. in each draft you get a few good midfielders coming through and splitting our opportunity between this year and next we will address our situation.

But there are not too many gun ruckmen or key forwards in every draft.
How many Coxes are there in the AFL?
How many Fevolas/J Browns/Kosi/Riewoldts??

Hes a mixture of both... he actually reminds me of Kosi .. but taller and with more running power...

But each club has great midfielders....

The really good talls are at a premium... and thats why you go for whats rare...

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

any chance that Kreuzer is now over 200 cm ?

[Gilly1972]

Take a gun tall over a gun midfielder anyday.
Its kind of like do you take Riewoldt/Kosi or Didak?

We will still have a crack at another midfield (Morton?)

And next year.. we will get another top 6 pick.. and midfielders are always around.. good talls arent.

Lets not try and fix all of our problems in one draft.. it isnt possible.
Both are going to be great... but Ill take the ruckman/forward this time and bolster up my ranks of midfielders with pick 3 and next year... when we get another crack with a top 6 pick in a strong draft..where as usual there will be more midfielders on show but talls will again be at a premium to clubs less stocked up than us in them.

You saw Cotchin on the weekend, you would pass on that knowing that mids like that can be game breakers, and we can take another good ruckman at #3?? There is only one midfielder i can think of next year that might be as good and I hope he is gone by our first pick.

[Gilly1972]

As our midfield develops so to will our team.
The more our midfield dominates the more opportunity forwards have and the less frequent attacks into our defence come.
So i see where Gilly is going with Cotchin.....he will be an absolute gun. im not sold on him being able to come straight into the AFL as a midfielder though and he might be a half frward for a while...

Regardless.. in each draft you get a few good midfielders coming through and splitting our opportunity between this year and next we will address our situation.

But there are not too many gun ruckmen or key forwards in every draft.
How many Coxes are there in the AFL?
How many Fevolas/J Browns/Kosi/Riewoldts??

Hes a mixture of both... he actually reminds me of Kosi .. but taller and with more running power...

But each club has great midfielders....

The really good talls are at a premium... and thats why you go for whats rare...

McEvoy is no Kreuzer, but he's no slouch either....and how exciting did hampson look in his second game when he took that mark and goaled. Setanta is mobile and almost plays like an extra midfielder in the ruck, aisake could potentially do the same ......

[TGR]

The gap between McEvoy's best and worst is too great for mine and he has days when those strong marking hands of his become more like a retired pro boxers mits. It's not that I don't rate Macca it's just that it is a bit of a reach at 3 for mine. If it is to be Cotchin then I reckon we back the developement of Hampson, Aisake and Jacobs and pick another mid at 3. With a gun mid-field you only require a ruckman who can give you first use anyway. Reckon Shaun is more than capable of that.

Having said that I'm leaning towards the big Kreuz.:D

[Gilly1972]

The gap between McEvoy's best and worst is too great for mine and he has days when those strong marking hands of his become more like a retired pro boxers mits. It's not that I don't rate Macca it's just that it is a bit of a reach at 3 for mine. If it is to be Cotchin then I reckon we back the developement of Hampson, Aisake and Jacobs and pick another mid at 3. With a gun mid-field you only require a ruckman who can give you first use anyway. Reckon Shaun is more than capable of that.

Having said that I'm leaning towards the big Kreuz.:D

The only reason I am on Macca at 3 is that Ratts has said he wants another developing ruckman. So I am trying to imagine what I would say to Ratts if he came to me asking for a tall mid and a developing ruckman. I would tell him at 184cm we want the stoppage busting, silky skills and clean hands of Cotchin, who plays taller than his 184cm anyway. Then if he still wants a ruckman, I wouldn't take whoever was left at #20 but use #3 on McEvoy. If it were me, I would probably back our ruck stocks in as well and go for Morton or Masten at #3.

[DBLUES]

Kreuzer is a freak and he WILL go at pick 1. Cotchin will probably go at #2 so for me its between the two WA boys Morton & palmer for pick 3. I just hope Rance i still there at pick 20 but I doubt it. I feel like a fat kid in a lollie shop.:)

[Gilly1972]

Kreuzer is a freak and he WILL go at pick 1. Cotchin will probably go at #2 so for me its between the two WA boys Morton & palmer for pick 3. I just hope Rance i still there at pick 20 but I doubt it. I feel like a fat kid in a lollie shop.:)

Thanks mark robinson :rolleyes:

[XXX KINGS]

Levi Greenwood.

[HBF]

Levi Greenwood.

Rookie List?

[XXX KINGS]

Rookie List?

Pick 3 :D

[scorpion2466]

Sorry about that, I was obvisously mis-informed.

Just one other question, all this media hype about Krezuer, will it put pressure on Carlton to pick him up with 1, even though they may think Cotchin is the better player (which I think so)?

They are two different players. No comparison. You simply pick what you need for your club. We need a quality big man and so do you. But there is only one Kruezer.

[HBF]

Pick 3 :D

Shane O'Sullivan, is that you? :p

[XXX KINGS]

Shane O'Sullivan, is that you? :p

Ye, it would be stupid of us to run the risk of him slipping to the Tigers at pick 2.

This thread should be titled 'Kreuzer or Greenwood?'.

[blues4flag]

You saw Cotchin on the weekend, you would pass on that knowing that mids like that can be game breakers, and we can take another good ruckman at #3?? There is only one midfielder i can think of next year that might be as good and I hope he is gone by our first pick.

From the little I've seen of Palmer, he's got gamebreaker written all over him. Arrogant with the footy, not afraid to take on the opposition and good around goals. At the moment, I'm for Kreuzer and Palmer, however I'm not really all that fussed about which combination of Kreuzer, Palmer, Cotchin, Morton, Masten we get. The fact that we'll be getting two of them has me very happy.:)

However, having said that, I think we'll regret passing up on Kreuzer. To pass up on a ruck talent as good as he is when they're so rare...

[DBLUES]

Thanks mark robinson :rolleyes:
Sorry mate how silly of me. I forgot nobody is allowed an opinion unless its the one u put forward first.

[OZBomb]

Not that I would advocate taking him with 1 or 3, but can't we throw Tom Bellchambers up there as far as a quality ruckman.

I don't want to get into to my 'Tassie players are underrated' argument again(which means I will,) but it seems to me that Tom Collier particularly is being completely overlooked. Genuine quality Full Back who dominated in the VFL in a very poor team.

I haven't been doing a lot of draftee watching this year (unlike last year when it became an obsession,) so I won't comment too much, but I have seen enough of Bellchambers and Collier to know they'll be very, very good.