Essendon Captain 2008 on

[Strike Swiftly]

IMO Matty Lloyd should step down as captain for the good of the club. Lloyd is a champion full forward, however since becoming captain, has rarely played a full game out of the square, mainly due to his captaining requirements. If he are to get the most out of Lloyd, the best FF in the game, we need to play him from the square.

We need an onballer as captain next year and beyond. A player with passion for the club, has influence over others and a good media profile. I reckon Mark McVeigh would be a perfect candidate for the position.

What do you think?

[Merv]

We will be having a poll on that shortly to decide who that will be as a part of this (http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=368395)

[Strike Swiftly]

beauty. well you have my vote as above

[Longy413]

Matthew Lloyd is a damn good captain.

The job is his for a couple of years yet.

[The_Young_Gun]

There are many players at the essendon footy club that can be captain but Lloyd was the best and only choice for captain in 2006 after james hird. Reason is that he was the only one stepping up for the job making him and other players better over time and letting off pressure for hird making him the best player at the essendon footy ever.
I'm also betting for monfries to take the captainsy after lloyd.

[Strike Swiftly]

There are many players at the essendon footy club that can be captain but Lloyd was the best and only choice for captain in 2006 after james hird. Reason is that he was the only one stepping up for the job making him and other players better over time and letting off pressure for hird making him the best player at the essendon footy ever.
I'm also betting for monfries to take the captainsy after lloyd.

I am pretty damn sure that hirdy's last two years havent changed his standing at the Essendon footy club. He was a champion already.

Monfries needs to show a lot more on the ground if he is ever gonna make captain.

[GoDons]

Matthew Lloyd is a damn good captain.

The job is his for a couple of years yet.

I certainly hope so.

Has led the way at different times this year, moments like his 2nd, 3rd and 4th efforts in one particular contest in Brisbane and his bump on Adam Selwood come to mind.

I see no one better to fill the role and I don't feell that the captaincy has dropped his performance.

[Ben the Gooner]

That's an interesting point. Lloyd is a fantastic captain, probably the best captain from a leadership perspective in the league, but he certainly hasn't played anywhere near his best this year. He plays best coming out of the square, kicking 100 goals a season. For the good of the club, we need to change captains, so that Lloyd can play to his best.

[The_Young_Gun]

just adding to my post before, but if Matty Lloyd somehow lost captaincy, the only guys that deserve it in '08 would be either Lucas, Fletcher or maby McVeigh if he was lucky.

[Strike Swiftly]

Fletcher no, for the same reason as lloyd. prob same with lucas. need them in their key positions, not up the ground

[The_Young_Gun]

Fletcher no, for the same reason as lloyd. prob same with lucas. need them in their key positions, not up the ground

Yeah fair enough but what do think about McVeigh, people are saying around he will be next but I don't know if he can do it.

[Strike Swiftly]

as i said earlier, i reckon McVeigh would be gold! He loves the club, he is now very disciplined and mature. He is in the best 22 week in week out, has a strong media profile and the younger players look up to him. he is also a long term captaincy prospect, not like the others named. I reckon he would relish the role of being the onfield leader of the club.

[The_Young_Gun]

Well McVeigh is now around 26 yo and hopfully our next coach will consider him to be captain in 2 years time.

[Strike Swiftly]

IMO it would be a better appointment now, rather than later. If he is selected now, we would have a captain for a good four or five, maybe six years. By that stage, Monfries Stanton etc would be experienced enough to take on the role from McVeigh. Only my opinion.

[The_Young_Gun]

To be honest i dont care about the captaincy I just want essendon to play good next year whoever the captain is.

[Strike Swiftly]

Good captaincy and a successful team stroll hand in hand.

[red+black]

I'm concerned that Mark Bolton may not be playing for Essendon next year.

Thus give him the captaincy to ensure he stays at the club.

[The_Young_Gun]

I'm concerned that Mark Bolton may not be playing for Essendon next year.

Thus give him the captaincy to ensure he stays at the club.

Hey don't give our new coach any idea's

[Strike Swiftly]

Bolton can be captain of Bendigo as he will be a Bendigo listed player

[B-Bomber]

I think McVeigh would be a wonderful captain!

However, I think that Lloyd should be given one more year, after he's had a year of time to get over his injury and a year of captaining the club without Hird around.

After next year, I think we should reassess Lloyd as captain.

[windyhill]

I'm concerned that Mark Bolton may not be playing for Essendon next year.

Thus give him the captaincy to ensure he stays at the club.

Magnificent !

[windyhill]

Lloyd will have the job for as long as he wants it.

[fish_bowl]

lloyd is a fantastic captain. he may not be a media darling as hird was, but he is leader which captains need. we hardly need a captain that is there to promote the club, and the last thing i wanna see is dual o 5 captains. lloyd is the man for the job, he may not have kicked 100 goals, but the last time he did that was years ago, well before he was given captaincy. anyone reckon his injury had an impact on that! last year before he was injuured people was calling him captain amazing, and i reckon he will turn out to be just that. we need to concentrate on developing leaders for after ie: hille, watson, gus, welshy, mcveigh and co.

lloyd 2008 will kick 90+

[retroparty]

Anyone here think that having Co-Captains are any good? We could have Lloyd up in the foward line while having someone else in the midfield or backline.

[Longy413]

Anyone here think that having Co-Captains are any good? We could have Lloyd up in the foward line while having someone else in the midfield or backline.

If you play in the midfield or backline and need a title to be a good leader, then you aren't much of a leader to begin with.

[Fraz]

Anyone here think that having Co-Captains are any good? We could have Lloyd up in the foward line while having someone else in the midfield or backline.
No, no and another big no.
Do you think that Fletch and Mal don't show leadership in the backline because they're not captains? Do you think Hirdy (can't bring myself to regard him as a former player just yet!) and Spike don't show leadership in the middle just because they're not captains?

As for the original question, Lloyd will and should be captain in 2008. From reports he's been instrumental in turning the club around off-field

Have just been reading Hirdys book - Reading The Play - and this is what he had to say on Lloydy's captaincy:
"Matthew Lloyd had been vice-captain for five seasons. He was ready, willing and able, liked and respected by the p[layers, a genuine superstar of the game and one of the most dedicated professionals I've ever met. Succession wasn't a problem, as Sheedy had often noted...
"He's brought a lot more discipline into the place, which is exactly what we needed with our young group. The captaincy has also brought Lloydy out of his shell, which is good....
"It's been said that it's difficult to captain from full forward, because you're usually too far away from the heat of the action to be able to give direction...I don't think it's a problem. The reality is that when you're not telling everyone what to do. There are leaders all over the place. I had strong back-up when I was captain - from Dean Wallis, Sean Wellman, Lloydy, Scotty Lucas and Darren Bewick."

[retroparty]

No, no and another big no.
Do you think that Fletch and Mal don't show leadership in the backline because they're not captains? Do you think Hirdy (can't bring myself to regard him as a former player just yet!) and Spike don't show leadership in the middle just because they're not captains?

As for the original question, Lloyd will and should be captain in 2008. From reports he's been instrumental in turning the club around off-field

Have just been reading Hirdys book - Reading The Play - and this is what he had to say on Lloydy's captaincy:
"Matthew Lloyd had been vice-captain for five seasons. He was ready, willing and able, liked and respected by the p[layers, a genuine superstar of the game and one of the most dedicated professionals I've ever met. Succession wasn't a problem, as Sheedy had often noted...
"He's brought a lot more discipline into the place, which is exactly what we needed with our young group. The captaincy has also brought Lloydy out of his shell, which is good....
"It's been said that it's difficult to captain from full forward, because you're usually too far away from the heat of the action to be able to give direction...I don't think it's a problem. The reality is that when you're not telling everyone what to do. There are leaders all over the place. I had strong back-up when I was captain - from Dean Wallis, Sean Wellman, Lloydy, Scotty Lucas and Darren Bewick."

Yeh, your probably right

[OzBomber]

as i said earlier, i reckon McVeigh would be gold! He loves the club, he is now very disciplined and mature. He is in the best 22 week in week out, has a strong media profile and the younger players look up to him. he is also a long term captaincy prospect, not like the others named. I reckon he would relish the role of being the onfield leader of the club.
Not all the time. Sometimes he can go over the top and give away crappy frees.

[drew_j]

I would like to see someone other than Lloyd captain in the long run because I'd just like to see Lloyd focus on kicking big bags. It's not that he doesn't do the motivational speaches, the work around the club etc need to be a bloody good captain, cos he does and does it well. I'm just not sure that his awesome best is being curtailed by his lay off from injury, the distrcation from captancy (he's a man who is ruled by routine) or most likely the fact our mids keep kicking over his head, but still used to kick 2-3 even on a bad day not so long ago. One more year for mine to see if he can hit some form and captain. Also wouldn't want to screw with his confidence just yet if it was taken off him, becasue as a pure leader, he deserves it.

[red+black]

Anyone here think that having Co-Captains are any good?
Personally I wish the AFL would introduce a rule that all clubs must nominate one captain, one vice-captain and one deputy-vice-captain by say December 1, and any club that doesn't be fined $5000 every day until they do.

Having 2, 3 or 5 :rolleyes: (****ing stupid Brisbane) captains is utter bullshit.

[FandangoDingo]

I think Lloyd is a great footballer but I'm not convinced he's a great leader. He still does some really silly things that you would NEVER see Hird, Terry Daniher, Leigh Matthews, Michael Voss, Chris Judd or any great captain do.

I recall in Round 3 this year when we kicked well clear of Carlton, Lloyd kicked a goal and immediately ran up to Setanta O'hAilpin (IIRC) and clapped his hands in his face. Gary Moorcroft did a similarly disrespectful gesture towards Craig Bradley in the 1999 Preliminary Final. Both acts of disrespect inspired the opposition to beat us. We lost both matches and we should have won both.

These kind of acts are NOT the acts of a great leader. He even seems to be getting back to his old "diving" ways, or at least seems to again be struggling to keep his feet during contests. He also does the Fevola-esque look towards the umpire when the ball's still there to be won and he gives away far too many easy free-kicks when he's trying to "assert" himself on a game, but does it crudely.

There's isn't an obvious replacement at Windy Hill right now, but I don't think he's the Captain I'd hoped he might become.

I think he also wears his shorts far too migh to be a great leader! C'mon Harry High Pants!!! ;)

[RyderFahey]

Matty lloyd has been one of the main reasons we are stating to turn things around he wanted to get rid of cupido and zantuck he is a awesem captain and everyone you hear that has an involvement with the club says he is a great captain

[FandangoDingo]

Matty lloyd has been one of the main reasons we are stating to turn things around he wanted to get rid of cupido and zantuck he is a awesem captain and everyone you hear that has an involvement with the club says he is a great captain

Who else could have picked Zantuck as a dud??? :rolleyes:

[Country_Boy_12]

i just dont think lloyd can motivate the team like hird and other captains could. i say mcveigh captain for 08

[Margim]

One and a half seasons of reasonable discipline doesn't all of a sudden make someone worthy captain material. McVeigh might be playing okay, but still isn't the kind of guy I'd want as the face of Essendon FC.

[GoDons]

I think Lloyd is a great footballer but I'm not convinced he's a great leader. He still does some really silly things that you would NEVER see Hird, Terry Daniher, Leigh Matthews, Michael Voss, Chris Judd or any great captain do.

I recall in Round 3 this year when we kicked well clear of Carlton, Lloyd kicked a goal and immediately ran up to Setanta O'hAilpin (IIRC) and clapped his hands in his face. Gary Moorcroft did a similarly disrespectful gesture towards Craig Bradley in the 1999 Preliminary Final. Both acts of disrespect inspired the opposition to beat us. We lost both matches and we should have won both.

These kind of acts are NOT the acts of a great leader. He even seems to be getting back to his old "diving" ways, or at least seems to again be struggling to keep his feet during contests. He also does the Fevola-esque look towards the umpire when the ball's still there to be won and he gives away far too many easy free-kicks when he's trying to "assert" himself on a game, but does it crudely.

There's isn't an obvious replacement at Windy Hill right now, but I don't think he's the Captain I'd hoped he might become.

I think he also wears his shorts far too migh to be a great leader! C'mon Harry High Pants!!! ;)

I think you might need to look back at a tape of the 2002 Grand Final.

There's some pretty famous footage of Voss giving to Scott Burns which is certainly no better than anything Lloyd's done.

I certainly don't have a problem with him giving it to Setanta O'hAilpin or anyone for that matter. It shows passion, intensity and competitiveness. Sets an example for some of the drifters we have in the side.

He's had a few moments where he's looked at the umpire this year and they haven't been good. However, he's more than made up for those incidents with strong attack on the football and the man, assertive leadership and team play.

[Fraz]

I think Lloyd is a great footballer but I'm not convinced he's a great leader. He still does some really silly things that you would NEVER see Hird, Terry Daniher, Leigh Matthews, Michael Voss, Chris Judd or any great captain do.

I recall in Round 3 this year when we kicked well clear of Carlton, Lloyd kicked a goal and immediately ran up to Setanta O'hAilpin (IIRC) and clapped his hands in his face. Gary Moorcroft did a similarly disrespectful gesture towards Craig Bradley in the 1999 Preliminary Final. Both acts of disrespect inspired the opposition to beat us. We lost both matches and we should have won both.

And Sir James once called Sheeds a "c--t" out on the field. So what? Those kinds of things happen in the heat of the moment. People keep complaining that the players are becoming like robots yet when they show passion they get bagged.
On a more serious side, Leigh Matthews remains the only player to be investigated by the police for an incident on a football field.

[Longy413]

I think Lloyd is a great footballer but I'm not convinced he's a great leader. He still does some really silly things that you would NEVER see Hird, Terry Daniher, Leigh Matthews, Michael Voss, Chris Judd or any great captain do.


Like eye gouge?

Or have an onfield matter end up in court?

Or get suspended for 9 (stand to be corrected) weeks?

Or belt a bloke in a pub (allegedly)?

[bombersno1]

I'd like to take a punt on a younger guy for the captaincy after Lloyd, so someone like Angus Monfries would be right in the mix. He'll play in the midfield and is one of our "harder" youngsters, doesn't play soft. MVeigh for mine is a bit too old, as I want someone u25.

[The_Young_Gun]

I'd like to take a punt on a younger guy for the captaincy after Lloyd, so someone like Angus Monfries would be right in the mix. He'll play in the midfield and is one of our "harder" youngsters, doesn't play soft. MVeigh for mine is a bit too old, as I want someone u25.

Angus is pretty much made for essendon but still not ready. We have only just started sealing him into the midfield so after mady a year and a half after he's settled in he could be a real contender for the captainsy, but right now the best man for the job is Matty Lloyd and we shouldn't even been thinking of stripping him of captainsy because this has turned the club around from been like carlton in their last 4 terrible years. Even Look what lloyd has done this year, last year we only won 3 games (I can't remember) and this year with him actually playing, been the leader of our group on the field, we have won 10 out of 22 games but things had gone a bit downhill after round 15 against geelong, from injuries and some pretty stupid suspensions, which in a way is a good thing because how would have we gone with no injuries or anything at all, we could even be top four, but knowing essendon anything could have happened.

[bombersno1]

Yep, like I said after Lloyd (so I assume about 3 years), Angus should be ready by then.

[Pumper Rubberfunk]

........... LOYLD, LOYLD, LOYLD then it will be Jobe Watson in 2011.........

[Longy413]

........... LOYLD, LOYLD, LOYLD then it will be Jobe Watson in 2011.........

You had three chances to get it right...

;)

[FandangoDingo]

I think you might need to look back at a tape of the 2002 Grand Final.

There's some pretty famous footage of Voss giving to Scott Burns which is certainly no better than anything Lloyd's done.

I certainly don't have a problem with him giving it to Setanta O'hAilpin or anyone for that matter. It shows passion, intensity and competitiveness. Sets an example for some of the drifters we have in the side.

He's had a few moments where he's looked at the umpire this year and they haven't been good. However, he's more than made up for those incidents with strong attack on the football and the man, assertive leadership and team play.

Brisbane WON the 2002 Grand Final. The disrespectful acts I mentioned were both turning points in games against Carlton that we should have won, but we lost. There is a key difference. Please watch back the Rd 3 incident with Setanta again and then tell me that was about passion and intensity! What a crock!! It was weak, childish and disrespectful and came back to bite us!

I remember being embarrassed at the time. Even though we were so far in front at the time, I said to my girlfriend that it reminded me of when Gary Moorcroft clapped his hand in Craig bradley's face in the '99 Prelim final, and we famously got rolled. Moorcroft allegedly said: "You'll never catch us now" as the Bombers kicked well clear. Well guess what? They did catch us and it cost us a premiership! And the Blues did the same in R3 this year after Lloyd disrespected them.

I don't doubt Lloyd's passion for the club or competitiveness for the win. I think he's an amazing footballer and have always have him in my Dreamteam... But it's just his leadership and maturity that still has a question mark hanging over it, IMHO. Would be thrilled to be proven wrong in 2008!!

[FandangoDingo]

Like eye gouge?

Or have an onfield matter end up in court?

Or get suspended for 9 (stand to be corrected) weeks?

Or belt a bloke in a pub (allegedly)?

All are more preferable than your skipper clapping in the face of an opposition player like a 10 year old spoilt brat! Fairdinkum. Watch the R3 incident back Longy and tell me I'm wrong.

[buffalopride]

i know it dosn't affect me but... whats bout damien pevrill? in 10 of his matches he had 25 plus disposals, he had 4 games under 20 disposals mostly 17's and averaged around 24 per game...... he is of right age i think 28 a good mature age still got years left in him....... ?

[Longy413]

All are more preferable than your skipper clapping in the face of an opposition player like a 10 year old spoilt brat! Fairdinkum. Watch the R3 incident back Longy and tell me I'm wrong.

See, I actually like to see arrogance in a footballer.

What's different between doing that and him saying "I can't believe you're playing on me in a Grand Final" to Nicholson in 2000?

The only difference is we won in the GF and everyone sits back and goes "hey that was great, that's funny" but we lost in Rd3 so all of a sudden it becomes embarrassing and a poor effort.

I like the whole "I'm better than you thing" and I think it's part of what makes champion players.

Belting a bloke behind play and ending up in court is better than having a genuine belief that you are better than your opponent and letting him know is better how?

[Smyth94]

God some people are quick to stick the knives out. At Essendon we've been blessed over the past 20 years, we've had TD, Bomber, O'Donnell, Hird and now Lloyd as our captains.

People also seem to have short memories. I can recall a lot of Essendon supporters questioning James Hird's captaincy when he was going through his stress fractures, it was well documented.

Before Lloydy snapped his hammy early last year the everyone including the media was blowing there load on how great a captain Lloydy was going to become and now because of a few small incidents he becomes the villain. 60+ goals coming back from a whole year of no footy is exceptional for a 29-30 year old player.

Don't harp on the small instances where he did lose his cool and acted selfishly. Lloyd cares about this club more than anyone I have seen and he wears his heart on his sleeve. He will learn to stop looking at the umps I'm sure he's been spoken to. He will also become a great captain.

[FandangoDingo]

See, I actually like to see arrogance in a footballer.

What's different between doing that and him saying "I can't believe you're playing on me in a Grand Final" to Nicholson in 2000?

The only difference is we won in the GF and everyone sits back and goes "hey that was great, that's funny" but we lost in Rd3 so all of a sudden it becomes embarrassing and a poor effort.

I like the whole "I'm better than you thing" and I think it's part of what makes champion players.

Belting a bloke behind play and ending up in court is better than having a genuine belief that you are better than your opponent and letting him know is better how?

It's a pretty big difference Longy! Winning a preimership after dropping just one game all year..... Versus losing from 7 goals up to a team vying for another round of priority picks!! You'd have a reason to be arrogant and could back it up with action.

But more to the point, I think the "I can't believe you're playing on me in a Grand Final" was a great comment to get inside an opponents head. It's a big stretch to compare that with Lloyd's ten year-old's carry-on in R3.

Please, Longy, go and watch the R3 incident and tell me that's what you want your skipper doing. I'm not saying he doesn't have a lot of great attributes, but he has to get that sort of stuff out of his game. He looked like a goose at the time and an even bigger goose when we got rolled. I just really hope he's learned from it.

[GoDons]

Brisbane WON the 2002 Grand Final. The disrespectful acts I mentioned were both turning points in games against Carlton that we should have won, but we lost. There is a key difference. Please watch back the Rd 3 incident with Setanta again and then tell me that was about passion and intensity! What a crock!! It was weak, childish and disrespectful and came back to bite us!

I remember being embarrassed at the time. Even though we were so far in front at the time, I said to my girlfriend that it reminded me of when Gary Moorcroft clapped his hand in Craig bradley's face in the '99 Prelim final, and we famously got rolled. Moorcroft allegedly said: "You'll never catch us now" as the Bombers kicked well clear. Well guess what? They did catch us and it cost us a premiership! And the Blues did the same in R3 this year after Lloyd disrespected them.

I don't doubt Lloyd's passion for the club or competitiveness for the win. I think he's an amazing footballer and have always have him in my Dreamteam... But it's just his leadership and maturity that still has a question mark hanging over it, IMHO. Would be thrilled to be proven wrong in 2008!!

How is an arrogant action defined by winning and losing?

Voss disrespected Burns in 2002, Lloyd disrespected O'hAilpin in round 3. The fact is that they both did the same thing.

Given that there is no such thing as 'good' and 'bad' disrespect, there is no correlation between disrepectful acts and the result of a match.

[Longy413]

It's a pretty big difference Longy! Winning a preimership after dropping just one game all year..... Versus losing from 7 goals up to a team vying for another round of priority picks!! You'd have a reason to be arrogant and could back it up with action.

It's different because the result is different.

There is no different in the actions.

Please, Longy, go and watch the R3 incident and tell me that's what you want your skipper doing. I'm not saying he doesn't have a lot of great attributes, but he has to get that sort of stuff out of his game. He looked like a goose at the time and an even bigger goose when we got rolled. I just really hope he's learned from it.

I have no issue with it, providing he doesn't rest on his laurels.

[bombersno1]

i know it dosn't affect me but... whats bout damien pevrill? in 10 of his matches he had 25 plus disposals, he had 4 games under 20 disposals mostly 17's and averaged around 24 per game...... he is of right age i think 28 a good mature age still got years left in him....... ?

Too old. Remember Lloyd will be around for at least 2 seasons, and no-one is saying replace Lloyd, we are looking at teh next one after that. Peverill will be 30 at that time, way too old. I want a younger captain by then (Monfries is my first pick, although if we get Ebert in the draft, it could be him). And another point on Peverill, he'll be lucky to even be in the side from next year onwards, his effective disposal rate is poor! And we are grooming Monfries for his role as seen by the last few rounds!

[mojon95]

who shoukd captain the essendon team of 2008?

[Strike Swiftly]

obviously didnt read OP???