Kreuzer vs Cotchin

[JDC!]

Interesting to note while reading the Carlton board that most Carlton supporters said they would rather Cotchin than Kreuzer. If you asked someone that a couple of weeks ago they would have laughed.

On the weekend Cotchin dominated and picked up 37 touches - 30 more than Kreuzer who is known for his around the ground work.

Simple question; who would you pick if you had the choice between Trent Cotchin and Matthew Kreuzer?

[samthemanlonergan]

Interesting to note while reading the Carlton board that most Carlton supporters said they would rather Cotchin than Kreuzer. If you asked someone that a couple of weeks ago they would have laughed.

On the weekend Cotchin dominated and picked up 37 touches - 30 more than Kreuzer who is known for his around the ground work.

Simple question; who would you pick if you had the choice between Trent Cotchin and Matthew Kreuzer?

Watch them get both.

[JDC!]

Watch them get both.

Gee, I hope not.

[Jeremias]

Watch them get both.

I ****ing hope so!

:D

[Vic Crow]

Glad I don't have to make the choice! That's all I can say.

[TacupWatcher]

In carlton's case. definatly kruezer. they are in serious need of a quality ruckman. Cotchin would be handy, but with the like's of gibbs,murphy,walker all developing into midfielders of top class and carazzo and simpson and stevens n scotland already established as top class midfielders i dont think cotchin would be as valuble as kruezar.

[The Royal Sampler]

The Blues are yet to make an unconventional call with one of their #1 picks. I thought if they were going to do it, they would have taken Leuenberger instead of Gibbs last year.

I think they'll go for Kreuzer.

An interesting question would be:
1. Leuenberger/Cotchin/Morton,
2. Leuenberger/Cotchin/McEvoy, or
3. Gibbs/Kreuzer/Morton?

[sinepari]

I was under the impression that they would take Selwood last year, but ultimately went with Gibbs.

Perhaps it's the same as this year. We'll discuss the possibility of Cotchin, but will they ultimately just take Kreuzer

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I was under the impression that they would take Selwood last year, but ultimately went with Gibbs.
I must say I never read or heard anywhere that Selwood was in the mix for number one.

[sinepari]

He definitely was. I promise.

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

He definitely was. I promise.

I was thinking the same thing. Every time i heard Pagan talk about the draft he would bring up Selwood.

[sinepari]

I do believe Pagan wanted Joel.

[David3030]

Selwood was ranked in 2005 above Bryce Gibbs ... Joel missed much of the 2006 season through injury and consequently he went lower than expected

it would not have surprised if Pagan had Selowwod ranked higher at some stage last year but I will admit just because I don't recall it, does not mean it did not happen

[marcmurphy3]

Cotchin.

[smithos]

Selwood was always better than Gibbs, it would have come down to him being a year younger and not having queries on his knee

[sinepari]

Gibbs was the safe bet. I can see why. It wasn't a bad choice anyway. Any 1 of about 5-6 players would have been valuable additions to carlton.

[over the top]

Watch them get both.
i know. as each day goes by it seems more and more likely they'll snare both.

can anyone name the person (and i think samthemanlonergan and i are on the same wave-length) as to who will go number 2.

this is just an experiment as to see who knows much more than whats been said by the media, cause if it was up to the media, **** the top 10 would look interesting. i rekon it would go kreuzer 1 and daniher 2. the way danihers been talked up so much by the papers and what-not. i recently heard someone saying that daniher will go top 10. shows what the media can really do.

[chump]

Selwood was ranked in 2005 above Bryce Gibbs ... Joel missed much of the 2006 season through injury and consequently he went lower than expected

it would not have surprised if Pagan had Selowwod ranked higher at some stage last year but I will admit just because I don't recall it, does not mean it did not happen


Where do you people get your info from?? It is completely wrong. Gibbs was always ranked higher than Selwood. He is almost a year younger.

Selwood was compared to Murphy, Murphy won the Larke medal ahead of Selwood in 2005. Yet Selwood was not quite eligible for that draft, there was speculation about where he would go if he was eligible, probably 1 in 2005 not 2006.

[hulld]

cotchin for sure.

as i have said all along, kruezer will seriously struggle at the afl level. there won't be any small midfielders to push around, whilst he has already struggled with his tapwork against some good ruckman such as natanui and shaw

[TacupWatcher]

At the conclusion of the 2005 season selwood was locked in as number 1. many coaches said they would have taken him top5 in 2005 as a bottom age if he was elligble such were the wraps on his football ability and leadership qualities. i cannot believe he slipped to 7. people talk about judd slipping to 3 and franklin to a think 8? selwood at 7 will turn out to be one of the greatest steals of all time..

[inyourcool]

franklin to a think 8?

pick 5 in 2004

[Delids]

I hope we get a midfielder preferably Cotchin.
The best rucks presently in the AFL were far from the NUMBER 1 picks.
I recall the hype on Josh Fraser, apparently he could play forward, he could play as a midfielder, he could play in the ruck. I dont believe he has mastered any of these skills. No doubt he has been a good player in the AFL, but he isnt up to the standard of the top rucks in the AFL ie Lade, Charman, Cox.
ANd where did the Pies get found out in the Grand Finals? By all reports Kruezer isnt great at the taps, therefore i will settle for a quality mid and take the saft bet. Kruezer sounds very similar to Josh for my liking.
The bottom age boy from WA who is 4 cm smaller than Kruezer smashed him at centre bounces in the championships. Kruezer beat him around the ground and footy smarts, but the Vic didnt get first usage.
Gardiner & White were also number 1 by memory.
NEVER draft rucks with the first pick as there will always be a late developer that will just as dominant.

[TheHeatleyStand]

I hope we get a midfielder preferably Cotchin.
The best rucks presently in the AFL were far from the NUMBER 1 picks.
I recall the hype on Josh Fraser, apparently he could play forward, he could play as a midfielder, he could play in the ruck. I dont believe he has mastered any of these skills. No doubt he has been a good player in the AFL, but he isnt up to the standard of the top rucks in the AFL ie Lade, Charman, Cox.
ANd where did the Pies get found out in the Grand Finals? By all reports Kruezer isnt great at the taps, therefore i will settle for a quality mid and take the saft bet. Kruezer sounds very similar to Josh for my liking.
The bottom age boy from WA who is 4 cm smaller than Kruezer smashed him at centre bounces in the championships. Kruezer beat him around the ground and footy smarts, but the Vic didnt get first usage.
Gardiner & White were also number 1 by memory.
NEVER draft rucks with the first pick as there will always be a late developer that will just as dominant.
thats assuming the rucks arent top 2% in contested marking.
In the lead group in tackles.
Dominate the ruck
kick goals in the forwrd line
run around like a midfielder.(15 beep test)
Agile and good below their knees.. and around 90 kilos as a 17 year old...

Yep.. he can do it all!!!:thumbsu:

[richoatthedisco]

In carlton's case. definatly kruezer. they are in serious need of a quality ruckman. Cotchin would be handy, but with the like's of gibbs,murphy,walker all developing into midfielders of top class and carazzo and simpson and stevens n scotland already established as top class midfielders i dont think cotchin would be as valuble as kruezar.

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Coughlan]

i know. as each day goes by it seems more and more likely they'll snare both.

can anyone name the person (and i think samthemanlonergan and i are on the same wave-length) as to who will go number 2.

this is just an experiment as to see who knows much more than whats been said by the media, cause if it was up to the media, **** the top 10 would look interesting. i rekon it would go kreuzer 1 and daniher 2. the way danihers been talked up so much by the papers and what-not. i recently heard someone saying that daniher will go top 10. shows what the media can really do.
Not a chance.
Cotchin will go at number two and Daniher is absolutly ZERO chance of going at pick 2.You just wish, Carlton are not getting both, your deluded fans just wish it will happen

[Bronze]

From what I've seen Cotchin plays very much like Nathan Brown.

Looks very clever but not super quick.

He didn't play too well either at the U/18 carnival but dominates at school boy level.

I'm happy for Richmond to take him.

[Delids]

Another N Brown, i could live with that.
37 touches in a TAC final.

[Vic Crow]

Kruezer sounds very similar to Josh for my liking.

There are some Fraser like qualities to his game but he's very unique. I see him as a cross between Goodes and Hudson. In Goodes there is the great athleticism around the ground and can play pretty much anywhere. With Hudson you get sheer competitiveness. When the ball hits the deck he goes hard. The difference is that Kreuzer has a lot of skill where Hudson just a battler. He mixes heart and skill very well and that is why he is such a high prospect.

Not a chance.
Cotchin will go at number two and Daniher is absolutly ZERO chance of going at pick 2.You just wish, Carlton are not getting both, your deluded fans just wish it will happen
That's not what he was saying at all. Read his post again a little closer.

[Coughlan]

That's not what he was saying at all. Read his post again a little closer.

True, you are right, but Carlton won't be getting both Kruezer and Cotchin.
I don't see how it is getting more and more likely by the day.
More wishful thinking then anything else

[roostertalk]

True, you are right, but Carlton won't be getting both Kruezer and Cotchin.
I don't see how it is getting more and more likely by the day.
More wishful thinking then anything else

There are plenty of whispers going around that the tiges are sold on Morton, i really hope not but if so the blues will do very well.If i were the blues I'd be snaffling Kreuzer and then Palmer.

[Vic Crow]

There are plenty of whispers going around that the tiges are sold on Morton, i really hope not but if so the blues will do very well.If i were the blues I'd be snaffling Kreuzer and then Palmer.
Melbourne needs a tissue.

[one_twelve112]

Both will turn out to be top notch. I think Cotchin will make a more immediate impact on the AFL but in the years to come, I'm sure Kreuzer will develope into an A-grade ruckman. Sit back and enjoy the 100+ threads next year re: "Carlton's choice to take Kreuzer was a huge mistake" from envious Tiges and Pies supporters. That is, if they do take him.

[roostertalk]

Melbourne needs a tissue.

not sure i follow mate....

[Coughlan]

not sure i follow mate....
At the prospect of the order going Kruezer, Morton, Palmer and they snap up Cothcin at 4
Use you're imagination;)

[Vic Crow]

At the prospect of the order going Kruezer, Morton, Palmer and they snap up Cothcin at 4
Use you're imagination;)
I imagine it would go something like this.

Carlton - a minute of talking, but it's just for show because they've already made their mind up. "Pick 1 - Matthew Kreuzer, Northern Knights." A minute or two for photo opportunities and the like.

Richmond - a couple of minutes of intense discussion. The AFL gives them a time warning. "Pick 2 - Cale Morton, Claremont." Pats on the back and congratulatory handshakes."

Carlton - intense discussion. Some angry glares at one another. Folded arms. The AFL gives them a time warning. "Pick 3 - Rhys Palmer, East Fremantle."

Immediately from across the room you hear Melbourne. Everyone turns around to see Craig Cameron jumping up and down on the table: "TRENT COTCHIN! TRENT MOTHER ****ING COTCHIN!!! PICK 4!!!"

[Gilly1972]

I imagine it would go something like this.

Carlton - a minute of talking, but it's just for show because they've already made their mind up. "Pick 1 - Matthew Kreuzer, Northern Knights." A minute or two for photo opportunities and the like.

Richmond - a couple of minutes of intense discussion. The AFL gives them a time warning. "Pick 2 - Cale Morton, Claremont." Pats on the back and congratulatory handshakes."

Carlton - intense discussion. Some angry glares at one another. Folded arms. The AFL gives them a time warning. "Pick 3 - Rhys Palmer, East Fremantle."

Immediately from across the room you hear Melbourne. Everyone turns around to see Craig Cameron jumping up and down on the table: "TRENT COTCHIN! TRENT MOTHER ****ING COTCHIN!!! PICK 4!!!"

Vic Crow, you wouldn't see that, you would see Craig Cameron rushing to the emergency exits after I molotoved Telstra Dome ;):o

[TGR]

Vic Crow, you wouldn't see that, you would see Craig Cameron rushing to the emergency exits after I molotoved Telstra Dome ;):o



Thats why Wayne Hughes has asked to phone in his selections. Telstra Dome security has your photo.:D

[BluesRules]

I ****ing hope so!

:D

Better than winning tatts.

[BluesRules]

The Blues are yet to make an unconventional call with one of their #1 picks. I thought if they were going to do it, they would have taken Leuenberger instead of Gibbs last year.

I think they'll go for Kreuzer.

An interesting question would be:
1. Leuenberger/Cotchin/Morton,
2. Leuenberger/Cotchin/McEvoy, or
3. Gibbs/Kreuzer/Morton?

Nice Post.:thumbsu:

Option 3 looks the best. But, you really can't go wrong with option 1 and 2.

My best option would be:

4. Hampson/Gibbs/Cotchin/Morton

How good would that be?

[BluesRules]

I must say I never read or heard anywhere that Selwood was in the mix for number one.

I know for a fact Essendon strogly considered Selwood at 2.

[BluesRules]

I hope we get a midfielder preferably Cotchin.
The best rucks presently in the AFL were far from the NUMBER 1 picks.
I recall the hype on Josh Fraser, apparently he could play forward, he could play as a midfielder, he could play in the ruck. I dont believe he has mastered any of these skills. No doubt he has been a good player in the AFL, but he isnt up to the standard of the top rucks in the AFL ie Lade, Charman, Cox.
ANd where did the Pies get found out in the Grand Finals? By all reports Kruezer isnt great at the taps, therefore i will settle for a quality mid and take the saft bet. Kruezer sounds very similar to Josh for my liking.
The bottom age boy from WA who is 4 cm smaller than Kruezer smashed him at centre bounces in the championships. Kruezer beat him around the ground and footy smarts, but the Vic didnt get first usage.
Gardiner & White were also number 1 by memory.
NEVER draft rucks with the first pick as there will always be a late developer that will just as dominant.

I just hope the club is thinking along the same lines.

[BluesRules]

There are plenty of whispers going around that the tiges are sold on Morton, i really hope not but if so the blues will do very well.If i were the blues I'd be snaffling Kreuzer and then Palmer.

Not Palmer:thumbsd:

[tradebate6]

If you watched the vic carnival closely enough u would then know that cotchin was heavily tagged in all 3 games of the carnival, a carnival that is for these kids to show how good they r on a higher comp, not for the coaches to go all tactical and try and win the games at all costs. I know trent personally and he is a superstar of a kid, awsome bloke 2. My hopes r that he does go to Richmond at No. 2. And how can u compare these 2 players, they play a completely different role, ur all comparing a dean cox to a chris judd, u just can't.

[sinepari]

Just curious as to why you keep saying 'no palmer' 'BluesRules'.

You've mentioned he doesn't have the same class and that he is older than some of the other contenders, but what specifics don't you like in his game?

[sinepari]

If you watched the vic carnival closely enough u would then know that cotchin was heavily tagged in all 3 games of the carnival, a carnival that is for these kids to show how good they r on a higher comp, not for the coaches to go all tactical and try and win the games at all costs. I know trent personally and he is a superstar of a kid, awsome bloke 2. My hopes r that he does go to Richmond at No. 2. And how can u compare these 2 players, they play a completely different role, ur all comparing a dean cox to a chris judd, u just can't.

That's all well and good but it is useful in assessing how potential AFL players will be able to handle tags in the future. Of course players will develop and learn these skills but it still gives us an insight.

You can't blame other teams for tagging a classy player like Cotchin. All teams are in it to win it. It also highlighted the ability of some potential taggers like McGinnity.

[BluesRules]

Just curious as to why you keep saying 'no palmer' 'BluesRules'.

You've mentioned he doesn't have the same class and that he is older than some of the other contenders, but what specifics don't you like in his game?

- He doesn't get enough hard ball.
- Masten fed him all his goals.
- Very one sided, Cotchin/Morton have outstanding skills on both sides of the body.
- Bigger body helped impose himself on skinny kids. (Can't do that in the AFL)
- Very unaccountable. Only runs the one way.
- 1 year older

I'm not saying he isn't a good player. My point is that he isn't in the same class as the abovementioned kids.

[sinepari]

Fair enough, most of those points are valid.

I've seen him win a fair bit of the hard ball for East Freo. I also wouldn't say he has a really big body. But yes, I guess he's bigger than most.

[BluesRules]

Fair enough, most of those points are valid.

I've seen him win a fair bit of the hard ball for East Freo. I also wouldn't say he has a really big body. But yes, I guess he's bigger than most.

The thing that I like about him is that he is intense. I love his attitude and he comes across as very aggressive. I love that in a player.

I would be very happy to pick him up at pick 6 or 7. But, my argument is that he isn't up to the level of Ebert, Cotchin, Morton and Masten:)

[sinepari]

Yep, cheers for that. I was just curious.

I think it'll take me well over a month to finalise his position.

[Vic Crow]

That's all well and good but it is useful in assessing how potential AFL players will be able to handle tags in the future. Of course players will develop and learn these skills but it still gives us an insight.

You can't blame other teams for tagging a classy player like Cotchin. All teams are in it to win it. It also highlighted the ability of some potential taggers like McGinnity.
Give Cotchin time. At the Champs he didn't handle the tag well but I suspect it was the first time he ever got attention that close. He was tagged heavily in the first half in the Qualifying Final last week and he did well in the first half, but was spectacular in the second half. 37 possessions for the game including 25 in the second half.

[swuzzlebubble]

Selwood was always better than Gibbs, it would have come down to him being a year younger and not having queries on his kneeAnd Sticks being mates with his old man. Hence #4.