View Full Version : Cameron Falkner
mathew ollaik
12 Sep 2007, 17:18
A friend of mine is Cameron Falkner's cousin. He stated that Adelaide are intrested in him. I wanted to know what ur thoghts r about this!
Well, if they are then they can pick him up cheaply - as he's just been delisted by the doggies.
I can't see why they WOULD be interested, but you never know. I don't have any connections inside the club, so I wouldn't be the right person to tell you what those who matter are thinking.
CarnCrows
12 Sep 2007, 17:44
I assume that though he has been delisted he can still be traded?
Asgardian
12 Sep 2007, 17:57
Yes, the Doggies can trade him to whomever, as long as Cameron agrees to the trade.
Or he can be selected in the drafts, which one or both, depends on how (& if) he nominates.
AndrewJo
12 Sep 2007, 17:57
I assume that though he has been delisted he can still be traded?
My understanding is that once a player is delisted he then decides to go into the draft and cannot be traded. That is why the "smart" clubs do not delist until after trade week. Obviously the Doggies don't rate Faulkner at all. Similarly there have already been Carlton players who have been told they will be delisted.
Faulkner was supposedly close last year to come to the Crows but maybe it would not have been a correct decision if could not get a game with the depleted Bulldogs. Any Bulldogs people comment on his season?
Asgardian
12 Sep 2007, 18:00
AndrewJo, players contracts do not lapse until approx October 30th.
Hence he is still a Bulldogs player up until that date, unless he is traded during trade week.
CrowHop
12 Sep 2007, 18:10
I don't mind him and think he may be worth a punt.
Of course, in his time on the Doggies list he hasn't shown too much, so you'd be skeptical. Pick him up with a late pick and if it works - great. If it doesn't, too bad. Pretty much like the Rodan pick up.
Thing is, if it does work, all benefits are instantaneous, ie no waiting around putting 2 or 3 years of development in to him.
Capitalist
12 Sep 2007, 18:11
I assume that though he has been delisted he can still be traded?
PSD - if he is lucky
CrowHop
12 Sep 2007, 18:29
PSD - if he is lucky
In a weak draft, you can punt on a recycled player or you can punt on an 'Alan Obst'. Both a risk IMO.
Either way, Im not too fussed if the Crows take him with a lateish pick.
Blue Red and Gold
12 Sep 2007, 18:59
didnt John Reid come out and say at one stage that he would be the next McLeod?
Havent seen much of him to be honest, he obviously must have some talent, you dont lose that but if he hasnt performed yet there is nothing to say he will now.
out of order
12 Sep 2007, 19:04
didnt John Reid come out and say at one stage that he would be the next McLeod?
great isnt it? :o:(
oh and i wouldnt trade for him fella's, preseason or nothing imo
Dogs tried to trade him to Adelaide last year. Crows didn't want a bar of it. And after an unimpressive season down at Werribee and one game for the doggies he has been delisted, he was named in the best for Werribee a couple of times, but for a 23 year old playing VFL he should be dominating. Be lucky to finish top 5 or 10 for Werribee's B & F. There was also a club suspension for off-field behaviour over the extended break.
- He's free though! Won't cost you a cent, just a spot on your list.
macca23
12 Sep 2007, 22:56
Dogs tried to trade him to Adelaide last year. Crows didn't want a bar of it. And after an unimpressive season down at Werribee and one game for the doggies he has been delisted, he was named in the best for Werribee a couple of times, but for a 23 year old playing VFL he should be dominating. Be lucky to finish top 5 or 10 for Werribee's B & F. There was also a club suspension for off-field behaviour over the extended break.
- He's free though! Won't cost you a cent, just a spot on your list.
He's had his chances though. 18 games in 4 years and averaging 6 disposals per game.
We won't be busting a gut to get him IMO, free or not.
Dogga79
13 Sep 2007, 01:01
If he cant make it with a team near bottom and they cant even be bothered waiting until after trade week to give him a tap on the shoulder I wouldnt waste one of Port's pick's on him. Let's look forward, not to the player scrapyard. Harsh maybe but if it means holding back any more of our kids I believe it's the way to go.
Crow-mo
13 Sep 2007, 07:07
Yes, the Doggies can trade him to whomever, as long as Cameron agrees to the trade.
Or he can be selected in the drafts, which one or both, depends on how (& if) he nominates.
they've already delisted him, so no they can't.
Crow-mo
13 Sep 2007, 07:07
AndrewJo, players contracts do not lapse until approx October 30th.
Hence he is still a Bulldogs player up until that date, unless he is traded during trade week.
wrong, as usual.
Crow-mo
13 Sep 2007, 07:08
didnt John Reid come out and say at one stage that he would be the next McLeod?
no he didn't.
Asgardian
13 Sep 2007, 08:09
wrong, as usual.
Okay smart guy, how is what I said incorrect?
Okay smart guy, how is what I said incorrect?
Most of anything you say is incorrect, bordering on laughable. They accurately reflect your intellect, or lack thereof. Your posts provide little more than comic relief.
Most of anything you say is incorrect, bordering on laughable. They accurately reflect your intellect, or lack thereof. Your posts provide little more than comic relief.
Ouch !!
Harsh, but true.
baaaallllll
13 Sep 2007, 10:13
Can we rookie list him?
Crowked
13 Sep 2007, 10:25
I dont think Faulkner would be in our thinking at all. He's pretty well proven he's not up to AFL standard.
FWIW, I dont think you can trade a player you have delisted, because he is no longer a listed player regardless of the contract expiry date. He's contracted, but not listed.
OK.. How do the AFL handle the contracts issue, with delisted players?
Asgardian was correct in stating that AFL contracts expire on October 30th. This is why players who wish to leave have to wait for the PSD, as the ND is conducted before their contracts expire. I'm talking about those players the clubs do NOT wish to delist - eg Scott Camporeale walking from Carlton two years ago.
On the other hand, players who HAVE been delisted ARE eligible for the ND. This is how David Rodan came to be at Port Adelaide, having been delisted by Richmond.
As for whether clubs can still trade players after officially delisting them, I sincerely doubt it. Once the paperwork arrives at the AFL then they are no longer on their playing lists, hence they no longer have any hold on the players, hence they cannot be traded.
So what DOES happen with this contractual situation? Can someone with a solid understanding of the Collective Bargaining Agreement please make an informed statement.
Can we rookie list him?
No, we cannot.
At 23, he's too old to be a "normal" rookie.
He also doesn't qualify for being a "mature age" rookie because he's been on an AFL list before.
If we want him, it's ND, PSD or nothing. But I can't see why we WOULD want him.
scooter600x
13 Sep 2007, 10:55
wrong, as usual.
You have just posted three times, used a total of about 10 words and made three factual errors.
Good work.
Slick Dog Johnson
13 Sep 2007, 11:02
no he didn't.
Yes, he did.
Asgardian
13 Sep 2007, 11:20
Most of anything you say is incorrect, bordering on laughable. They accurately reflect your intellect, or lack thereof. Your posts provide little more than comic relief.
Quick to sink in the boot, pity you can't get the AFL laws correct, as I did
They can still be traded as officially they are still on the clubs list. The clubs do not lodge their lists of delisted players to the AFL until about October 31. (refer to sticky thread for exact date)
All that is happening now is players are being told they will not be at the club in 2008. Effectively meaning we are going to delist you or trade you to another club if another club wants you.
Realistically all clubs have already spoken to each other and players delisted now are normally one that other clubs have decided not to trade for. If they are interested in them they are happy to take their chances in the draft.
I suppose I'm expecting too much to have Crow-mo, jmorg1 & noddy all apologise
Rafa Benitez
13 Sep 2007, 11:30
no he didn't.
Yes he did.
Benno From Berwick
13 Sep 2007, 11:34
Dogs tried to trade him to Adelaide last year. Crows didn't want a bar of it. And after an unimpressive season down at Werribee and one game for the doggies he has been delisted, he was named in the best for Werribee a couple of times, but for a 23 year old playing VFL he should be dominating. Be lucky to finish top 5 or 10 for Werribee's B & F. There was also a club suspension for off-field behaviour over the extended break.
- He's free though! Won't cost you a cent, just a spot on your list.
Interesting. John Reid called him the next Adnrew McLeod when we originally drafted him!
Benno From Berwick
13 Sep 2007, 11:35
no he didn't.
Yes he did.......you are wrong.
Jars458
13 Sep 2007, 11:38
no he didn't.
Was it Fantasia who said it?
BlackDouglas
13 Sep 2007, 11:42
Was it Fantasia who said it?
Na, pretty sure it was Johnny Reid.
Captain Sensible
13 Sep 2007, 11:43
no he didn't.
Yeah, he did;
Round 2 17 Western Bulldogs CAMERON FAULKNER CENTRAL DISTRICT 22/05/1984 177cm 71kg
Inside midfielder with good evasive skills & clean hands. Has explosive pace & is a good decision-maker. Missed AFL U18’s due to injury. Recorded 2.94sec for 20 metres during SA screening test in October after missing National Draft Camp due to SANFL Grand Final commitments. Member of Premiership Reserve side with Centrals kicking 3 goals in a promising display. Played juniors with Elizabeth FC and seniors with United FC before joining Centrals.
Both the Bulldogs and Adelaide, who watched him closely while he played in the SANFL, have described Faulkner as the next Andrew McLeod.
Adelaide was hopiong beyond hope that he would still be available for their first selection (#32 overall in the 3rd round)
From http://www.afana.com/netpaper/nov25-27081.html
Found what I believe to be the relevant part of the CBA:
12.1 An AFL Club shall be entitled to apply to the AFL to delete a Player’s name from its List and by written notice to the Player in accordance with the contract, terminate the contract upon the Player being delisted. In such case, the contract shall be at an end provided that the AFL Club shall pay the Player by way of compensation:
The paragraph continues, spelling out the necessary payments to fulfill the terms of the contract, but they're not particularly relevant to the debate here (hence my decision to delete them).
So, once they are delisted their contract is terminated and comes to an end. Thus they cannot be traded after they have been officially delisted.
Bulldog Banana
13 Sep 2007, 11:51
Dont let our delisting of Cam put you guys off.
From my understanding he was disciplined by the club during the season. What that involved Im not too sure.
There was a comment from Butane earlier that he had an "unimpressive" season at Werribee. Fromt he few games I saw on the ABC and the lists of best players etc, he seemed to have a good year.
I was calling for him to be put into the midfield when Griffen & Cross went down, but others that hadnt been performing as well as him were given opportunities.
It appears that his papers were stamped very early in the piece.
I also commented that he could do a "Rodan" and come back and bite us on the bum.
He would be a good PSD pick up for you guys. Wont cost much....
Asgardian
13 Sep 2007, 11:53
I just spoke to Geoff Parker - Recruiting Officer SA for Port Adelaide, and he confirmed that delisted players are still available to be traded by their club, as long as they agree to the trade, however unlikely that another club will actively seek to trade for them.
BlackDouglas
13 Sep 2007, 15:33
I just spoke to Geoff Parker - Recruiting Officer SA for Port Adelaide, and he confirmed that delisted players are still available to be traded by their club, as long as they agree to the trade, however unlikely that another club will actively seek to trade for them.
That’s the thing; the Western Bulldogs (and other clubs that delist player early) have shown their hand and played their cards, what club is going to give up anything for him now they know he will be delisted. Any club that is keen will hold out until the PSD.
Cameron Faulkner doesn’t have a whole lot of value and I cannot see us picking him up, the only way I think we may pick him up is if it is part of a deal.
Hypothetically if we give the Bulldogs – McGregor, Meesen and Jericho as a package and they offer us their first 2 picks and Faulkner as a sweetener, this may tempt us. As I said that’s just a hypothetical.
Asgardian
13 Sep 2007, 17:22
Sure, Port could have traded for David Rodan for pick number 738 or whatever the hell it was, but Richmond did not want to be bound to use a lousy draft pick. (If you trade for a draft pick, it must be used, it cannot be a pass)
But the point remains, any player delisted can still be traded, as their contract is up until 30th October.
The Draft nominations close on Wednesday, November 14th.
The Delisted Player Nominations Close on Wednesday, November 21st.
The NAB AFL Draft Selection Meeting is on Saturday, November 24th.
These are facts, not banal abuse, that those who know not sprout
Longy413
13 Sep 2007, 17:29
So, once they are delisted their contract is terminated and comes to an end. Thus they cannot be traded after they have been officially delisted.
Which doesn't happen until there is a list lodgement.
Which I find hard to believe the Bulldogs have actually done.
That’s the thing; the Western Bulldogs (and other clubs that delist player early) have shown their hand and played their cards, what club is going to give up anything for him now they know he will be delisted. Any club that is keen will hold out until the PSD.
Unless of course there are two (or more clubs) after his services.
Asgardian
13 Sep 2007, 17:36
Which doesn't happen until there is a list lodgement.
Which I find hard to believe the Bulldogs have actually done.
No, there has been no list lodgements as yet, look below
List Lodgement One, including rookie promotions, retained second year rookies and father / son selections is on October 31st.
List Lodgement Two is Friday November 16th
List Lodgement Three and TPP Estimates is Friday November 30th
NAB AFL Pre-Season Draft Selection Meeting
PLUS
Nomination of Brisbane Lions and Sydney eligible rookie list players
PLUS
NAB AFL Rookie Draft Selection Meeting all happens on Tuesday December 11th.
bluechampion
13 Sep 2007, 17:49
Faulkner will be one of those players you invite down to the early part of pre-season training and have a look at, and then, maybe take with pick 60+ depending on how everything else turns out.
I do honestly think there are people at Adelaide who really rate him, and would like to give him a second chance. In a way, going to the Dogs was the worst place for him, as he had lots of competition for his spot - a small, skillful but not especially quick rover - from bigger, faster, classier blokes.
He was on a hiding to nothing.
WheresGroomgone
13 Sep 2007, 18:15
John Reid stated that Bernie Vince was Mcleod like, why would he comment on Faulkner?
Longy413
13 Sep 2007, 19:03
No, there has been no list lodgements as yet, look below
That's the cut off time though.
You can do it early, but it's unlikely that you would.
The Crows Truth
13 Sep 2007, 20:37
no he didn't.
you might end up looking like a goose again here crow mos...what exactly DID Reid say then when he used the names 'Faulkner' and 'Mc Leod' in the same sentence when expressing his disappointment that the Bullies drafted him before us? :confused::confused:
Southerntakeover
13 Sep 2007, 20:49
No, there has been no list lodgements as yet, look below
List Lodgement One, including rookie promotions, retained second year rookies and father / son selections is on October 31st.
List Lodgement Two is Friday November 16th
List Lodgement Three and TPP Estimates is Friday November 30th
NAB AFL Pre-Season Draft Selection Meeting
PLUS
Nomination of Brisbane Lions and Sydney eligible rookie list players
PLUS
NAB AFL Rookie Draft Selection Meeting all happens on Tuesday December 11th.
Is there anything to suggest that these are the official dates, other than your insistence we look below?
Kane McGoodwin
13 Sep 2007, 21:35
Hypothetically if we give the Bulldogs – McGregor, Meesen and Jericho as a package and they offer us their first 2 picks and Faulkner as a sweetener, this may tempt us. As I said that’s just a hypothetical.
That would be the go. Bit like Caven was thrown in as a sweetner.
Faulkner could be worth the gamble. Even if he was rookied (is he too old?)
scooter600x
14 Sep 2007, 00:24
Which doesn't happen until there is a list lodgement.
Which I find hard to believe the Bulldogs have actually done.
Keeping the delistings a secret is pointless.
Once the players are told they will not be offered another contract the players tell their managers to find them a new club and within 20 minutes every club knows anyway.
Asgardian
14 Sep 2007, 02:39
Is there anything to suggest that these are the official dates, other than your insistence we look below?
You mean apart from the fact that I got the information from the AFL site?
http://afl.com.au/Season2007/NABAFLRisingStarsProgram/NABAFLDraft/tabid/282/Default.aspx
2007 NAB AFL DRAFT - KEY DATES
The AFL wishes to advise the following key dates as part of the 2007 NAB AFL Draft Process:
Tuesday Oct 2 - Friday Oct 5
NAB AFL Draft Camp
Saturday Oct 6
Victorian State Screening Session
Monday Oct 8 to 2pm Friday Oct 12
Exchange Period
Saturday Oct 13
South Australian State Screening Session
Sunday Oct 14
Western Australian State Screening Session
Wednesday Oct 31 (2pm)
List Lodgement One, including rookie promotions, retained second year rookies and father / son selections
Wednesday Nov 14 (2pm)
Draft Nominations Close
Friday Nov 16 (2pm)
List Lodgement Two
Wednesday Nov 21 (2pm)
Delisted Player Nominations Close
Saturday Nov 24 (10am)
NAB AFL Draft Selection Meeting
Tuesday Nov 27 (2pm)
Uncontracted Listed Player Nominations Close
Friday Nov 30 (2pm)
List Lodgement Three and TPP Estimates
Friday Dec 7 (2pm)
Delisted Player Nominations Close
Tuesday Dec 11 (10am)
NAB AFL Pre-Season Draft Selection Meeting
Tuesday Dec 11 (10.15am)
Nomination of Brisbane Lions and Sydney eligible rookie list players
Tuesday Dec 11 (10.30am)
NAB AFL Rookie Draft Selection Meeting
It really wasn't very hard to find
It's more the pity that some that have posted in this thread, with inflated ideas of their own opinions, aren't man enough to apologise when they have got it so far wrong.
Longy413
14 Sep 2007, 12:47
Keeping the delistings a secret is pointless.
I wasn't talking about keeping the delistings secret.
I was talking about making a list lodgement before the due date.
Templeton31
14 Sep 2007, 16:24
John Reid stated that Bernie Vince was Mcleod like, why would he comment on Faulkner?
My memory says it was Fantasia who said McLeod-like about Faulkner.
Bulldogsnm1
14 Sep 2007, 20:19
Yes, the Doggies can trade him to whomever, as long as Cameron agrees to the trade.
Or he can be selected in the drafts, which one or both, depends on how (& if) he nominates.
He was a reasonably high draft pick (around 17), his first couple of years at the club he showed real promise, however as each year past his form tapered off and he was really out of favour with the selectors.
Had a reasonable year at Werribee and is from SA, if any club was to take him on it would best to be a SA club. Would really need to work on his fitness and get his attitude spot on to be any value.
Crow-mo
15 Sep 2007, 03:34
you might end up looking like a goose again here crow mos...what exactly DID Reid say then when he used the names 'Faulkner' and 'Mc Leod' in the same sentence when expressing his disappointment that the Bullies drafted him before us? :confused::confused:
you're easily confused, not my problem.
but ask a grown up what it means when someone trades out of a draft completely, and what that says about their opinion of what's on offer.
Crow-mo
15 Sep 2007, 03:38
My memory says it was Fantasia who said McLeod-like about Faulkner.
no it was reid, and he did not say he would be the next mcleod.
having already put his cards on the table (traded out of the draft almost entirely in the torney/carey deals) he was asked if there was anyone who caught his eye. he said he liked the look of faulkner, and maybe there was a bit of the McLeod's about him.
nothing more than that. all you need to know is that we rated him sooo highly, we decided to trade completely out of the first and second rounds of what was described at the time (and since vindicated) as a truly average draft crop.
FWIW I was a fan of Faulkners.
He is farily solid and was able to win his own ball.
I feel that it was exactly this type of player we needed!
Like many I feel he wasn't given a fair run and when promoted, was only given the one game and then sent back to the seconds (perhaps this is what led to his off field discipining midway through the season).
Sorry to see him go and hope he doesn't come back to bite us.:thumbsu:
stefoid
15 Sep 2007, 23:03
cant find the ball. eade says he gets the hard balls but not the easy ones - that means he doesnt pick up the handball recieves and uncontested marks a player needs to average 20+ possesions. whether its knowing where to run of fitness or both - he doesnt have it. plus tends to have tunnel vision when he has the ball.
CrowMagnum
16 Sep 2007, 11:28
cant find the ball. eade says he gets the hard balls but not the easy ones - that means he doesnt pick up the handball recieves and uncontested marks a player needs to average 20+ possesions. whether its knowing where to run of fitness or both - he doesnt have it. plus tends to have tunnel vision when he has the ball.
Sounds more like the new Shirley than the new Macleod