Craig says 6 - 7 players will go.... who will they be?

[jenny61_99]

can a mod please delete this... clearly no interest in the topic. Cheers.

[betterthanu]

We would be very stupid to delist Pfieffer IMO. Biglands is another one that could be gone

[SpringChoke]

Did he include himself in the 6-7 to go?:eek::D

[Blind Fred]

I watched the media conference on the website ... where does he says 6-7 players will go? At least now when Rucci puts his spin on the Craig quotes in the morning I will know every word Neil said. Liked his explantation of the franklin dilemma. Still think he could have made a switch midway during the final term but also believe the midfield should cop most of the blame for the last quarter fade.

[crowugoodthing]

Roo, Perrie, Dogga, Hinge, Jericho, McGregor, Meeson.

[jo172]

If it were up to me: Bode, Doughty, Perrie, Jericho, Campbell, Ricciuto, Biglands

[Vader]

For me...

Roo - Retired
Perrie - Retired
Doughty - Delisted
Mattner - Traded for his own wellbeing as a player.
Meesen - Traded at his own request, looking for greater opportunities.
McGregor - Traded at his own request, also looking for more opportunities.
Jericho - Traded or Delisted

If an 8th is required:
Bode - Too many injuries.

Would retain Biglands in case something happens to Hudson - but he would be spending the entire season in the SANFL if Hudson remains fit.

[SpringChoke]

For me...

Roo - Retired
Perrie - Retired
Doughty - Delisted
Mattner - Traded for his own wellbeing as a player.
Meesen - Traded at his own request, looking for greater opportunities.
McGregor - Traded at his own request, also looking for more opportunities.
Jericho - Traded or Delisted

If an 8th is required:
Bode - Too many injuries.

Would retain Biglands in case something happens to Hudson - but he would be spending the entire season in the SANFL if Hudson remains fit.


Agree with this. It's a shame Mattner will probably have to find another club that will play him to his strengths.

[Dogga79]

Why is everybody saying that Mattner should go? With the turnover of players in the next couple of years he is going to be crucial, and he will be in his prime playing years. I think too much is being read into the fact that he has been dropped for a couple of games. He has had some slight injuries especially before the hawks match where I was surprised they listed him as an emergency. We all know NC would consider defence one of the most important parts of his game style so maybe it is flattering that he wants Mattners flair running out of the backlines. It would be madness if we traded him because I think we will get bugger all in return.

[Capitalist]

Why is everybody saying that Mattner should go? With the turnover of players in the next couple of years he is going to be crucial, and he will be in his prime playing years. I think too much is being read into the fact that he has been dropped for a couple of games. He has had some slight injuries especially before the hawks match where I was surprised they listed him as an emergency. We all know NC would consider defence one of the most important parts of his game style so maybe it is flattering that he wants Mattners flair running out of the backlines. It would be madness if we traded him because I think we will get bugger all in return.

trading him for his sake - not the clubs

[jenny61_99]

I watched the media conference on the website ... where does he says 6-7 players will go? At least now when Rucci puts his spin on the Craig quotes in the morning I will know every word Neil said. Liked his explantation of the franklin dilemma. Still think he could have made a switch midway during the final term but also believe the midfield should cop most of the blame for the last quarter fade.

It was on Foxtel news text yesterday. Mentioned he "said" (allegedly) that we will turn over 6-7 players and the only name that was mentioned was Perrie.

[vlbl]

For me:
Roo (retired)
Perrie (delist)
Doughty (delist)
Mcgregor (trade)
Torney (delist, As much as i like him i think massie can do play a very similar role and it will help us see where Pfeiffer, Hinge and Mcintyre are at, considering basset will be back next season. Need to blood younger kids who have bee around for a while now, don't want a Sydney situation).
Bode (delist, too too too many injuries, look to pick up a crummer in the draft like mitch farmer or throught trde week)
Biglands (Delist/Retire, he should know himself he is not required and should do the team thing and NC should have a chat to him regarding this. I mean having 6 ruckman in the list is far to much and he is the only one who really won't get a go. I know people talk about the geelong game. Well what we should also consider is that all the younger ruckmen will put on atleast 5kg of muscle and another soild pre-season, if all goes well.Therefore, biglands is merely a liability IMHO.)

[SpringChoke]

-Hinge - Not much point keeping average young players.
-Jericho - Has to go surely.
-Pez - Delist
-Roo - Retire.
-Meesen - Trade
-McGregor - Trade
-Doughty - Delist.

-Last chance salloon - Pfeiffer, Bode, Burton, Welsh, Massie.

-2008 will be their last year - Biglands, Edwards.

[out of order]

doughty has a yr to go on his contract :eek: which means he'll most likely get another shot. Rarely do we delist contracted players, especially ones who've enjoyed the run mick has had. ;)

[dylan101]

For me:
Roo (retired)
Perrie (delist)
Doughty (delist)
Mcgregor (trade)
Torney (delist, As much as i like him i think massie can do play a very similar role and it will help us see where Pfeiffer, Hinge and Mcintyre are at, considering basset will be back next season. Need to blood younger kids who have bee around for a while now, don't want a Sydney situation).
Bode (delist, too too too many injuries, look to pick up a crummer in the draft like mitch farmer or throught trde week)
Biglands (Delist/Retire, he should know himself he is not required and should do the team thing and NC should have a chat to him regarding this. I mean having 6 ruckman in the list is far to much and he is the only one who really won't get a go. I know people talk about the geelong game. Well what we should also consider is that all the younger ruckmen will put on atleast 5kg of muscle and another soild pre-season, if all goes well.Therefore, biglands is merely a liability IMHO.)

There's no way we will delist Torney I don't think, He's had a really good season, His best with us and he's done his job most weeks and kicked some very important goals.

I think that Bode will be retained and I also think Biglands will be retained although I think Rhett should be delisted

[vlbl]

There's no way we will delist Torney I don't think, He's had a really good season, His best with us and he's done his job most weeks and kicked some very important goals.

I think that Bode will be retained and I also think Biglands will be retained although I think Rhett should be delisted

I understand what your saying with torney there mate and i said my self as much i like the job he does for us, its not somthing that cannot be done by another player like massie. Torney is in the twilight of his career and if having him in for 1 more season with a fully fit basset back we just move massie to where torney was playing and give some of the younger blokes a go. Because to me we still have some way to go before we get another premiership and we need to get the younger guys who have been in the system to see if they are afl standard.

[jenny61_99]

I understand what your saying with torney there mate and i said my self as much i like the job he does for us, its not somthing that cannot be done by another player like massie. Torney is in the twilight of his career and if having him in for 1 more season with a fully fit basset back we just move massie to where torney was playing and give some of the younger blokes a go. Because to me we still have some way to go before we get another premiership and we need to get the younger guys who have been in the system to see if they are afl standard.

Torney is a much better player than Massie IMO - having said that, I think both will still be on our books next year.

[liz]

For those of you who think Mattner might be traded for his own benefit (sounds like not many of you think he actually should be), what is your perception of his trade value?

Would love him at the Swans - could easily slot into the position Malceski has occupied this year (Roos wants to move him into the midfield) and I reckon he's the kind of player who'd really flourish with a change of scenery. Was surprised to see him dropped sporadically during the season because in past year's I've been very very impressed by him.

What would you want in exchange?

[- PC -]

For those of you who think Mattner might be traded for his own benefit (sounds like not many of you think he actually should be), what is your perception of his trade value?

Would love him at the Swans - could easily slot into the position Malceski has occupied this year (Roos wants to move him into the midfield) and I reckon he's the kind of player who'd really flourish with a change of scenery. Was surprised to see him dropped sporadically during the season because in past year's I've been very very impressed by him.

What would you want in exchange?

What have you got between 20-40

[dyertribe]

For those of you who think Mattner might be traded for his own benefit (sounds like not many of you think he actually should be), what is your perception of his trade value?

For mine, Marty is a Clinton Young clone - or vice-versa given the Hawk is younger.

When I've watched Young breaking the lines with his run and carry and then delivering long with his super left foot lately, I wonder why the Mattner down back experiment was persisted with for so long when it clearly wasn't working - to the point where MM is now fringe.

It's a travesty that Mattner is now obvious tradebait, while Young, an identical player in almost every way, is rightly considered a near-gun on the verge of stardom.

[liz]

What have you got between 20-40


As in draft picks in that range? We finished one spot ahead of you guys so I guess that means our 2nd round pick would be 28 (I think there are two priority picks to be fitted into the order - Melbourne just missed out?)

And then our next one would be 44.

Every club wants to get as much for as little but the Swans seem to have been prepared to pay "fair value" in trades without too much fuss. If he was a player that Roos thought fitted the Swans needs I doubt he'd blink at paying with pick 28.

The only issue with that is that there is a long list of youngsters who've not had a chance yet to show whether they are going to be AFL players but almost all of whom have shown enough in Canberra this year to warrant another year to press their case. No-one seems to want to retire and even finding 3 players to delist to free up list space could be difficult. And with at least three rookies likely to come into serious consideration for promotion, I'm not sure they'll be looking to recruit players unless they can find homes for others who don't deserve to be delisted.

Are there any roster spots where you lack depth and might be interested in taking a depth player instead (maybe packaged with a 3rd round pick, depending on the player)? Schmidt and Grundy are two local boys (for you) who have shown something at senior level but may still struggle next year to get regular senior football. I don't especially want to lose either but for a win-win trade would be worth thinking about.

[jenny61_99]

For mine, Marty is a Clinton Young clone - or vice-versa given the Hawk is younger.

When I've watched Young breaking the lines with his run and carry and then delivering long with his super left foot lately, I wonder why the Mattner down back experiment was persisted with for so long when it clearly wasn't working - to the point where MM is now fringe.

It's a travesty that Mattner is now obvious tradebait, while Young, an identical player in almost every way, is rightly considered a near-gun on the verge of stardom.

Did Young get caught or turn the ball over as often as Mattner? That may be your answer.

[dyertribe]

Did Young get caught or turn the ball over as often as Mattner? That may be your answer.

Depends. If Young ever gets shoved into a back pocket against all his natural instincts he might be half as bad as Mattner yet. :thumbsu:

[jenny61_99]

Depends. If Young ever gets shoved into a back pocket against all his natural instincts he might be half as bad as Mattner yet. :thumbsu:

Sorry DT, the reason he was shoved into the back pocket in the first place because all his natual instincts were letting him down!

[dyertribe]

Sorry DT, the reason he was shoved into the back pocket in the first place because all his natual instincts were letting him down!

I doubt we'll be seeing Scott Thompson in the backpocket any time soon though?

[Kane McGoodwin]

For me...

Roo - Retired
Perrie - Retired
Doughty - Delisted
Mattner - Traded for his own wellbeing as a player.
Meesen - Traded at his own request, looking for greater opportunities.
McGregor - Traded at his own request, also looking for more opportunities.
Jericho - Traded or Delisted

If an 8th is required:
Bode - Too many injuries.

Would retain Biglands in case something happens to Hudson - but he would be spending the entire season in the SANFL if Hudson remains fit.

I agree with this list & also include in Bode (too many injuries), as I'm assuming we may trade for a player or 2 back + upgrade some rookies.

Biglands & Torney should play on for another year.

[rooboy]

For mine, Marty is a Clinton Young clone - or vice-versa given the Hawk is younger.

When I've watched Young breaking the lines with his run and carry and then delivering long with his super left foot lately, I wonder why the Mattner down back experiment was persisted with for so long when it clearly wasn't working - to the point where MM is now fringe.

It's a travesty that Mattner is now obvious tradebait, while Young, an identical player in almost every way, is rightly considered a near-gun on the verge of stardom.

Great observation. We are crying out for someone with speed and a raking kick to play off the wing, and we've got him, but ofcourse he's playing out of the back pocket. I recall the " on the couch" crew saying a couple of years ago that we had the best two wingmen in the league, in Mattner and Burton.

Well, we put paid to that.

Oh well, let's hope we get something decent for Marty if he goes.

[CrowHop]

Delisting candidates:

Roo - retired
Perrie - retired
Meese - Home to victoria
McGregor - indicated he wants more opportunities
Jericho - 5 years of nothing. Move on.
Bode - Always injured.

Possibles:
Doughty (contracted), Mattner (possibly traded) and Hinge (perhaps last chance?).


For mine, Marty is a Clinton Young clone - or vice-versa given the Hawk is younger.

When I've watched Young breaking the lines with his run and carry and then delivering long with his super left foot lately, I wonder why the Mattner down back experiment was persisted with for so long when it clearly wasn't working - to the point where MM is now fringe.

It's a travesty that Mattner is now obvious tradebait, while Young, an identical player in almost every way, is rightly considered a near-gun on the verge of stardom.

Excellent post, spot on the money. Mattner's demise is one of the tragic stories of the AFC this year IMO.

Clubs wont part with a first rounder for him, so perhaps a second rounder is all we would get if we chose to move him on.

[macca23]

Sorry DT, the reason he was shoved into the back pocket in the first place because all his natual instincts were letting him down!

Jenny, you are so wrong it's not funny.

As a Crows senior player told me a couple of weeks ago in his own words, Craig has destroyed every natural instinct that Marty had which previously made him such a good player.

He has reduced Marty to an uncertain hesitant player who no longer trusts his natural instincts because he is trying to play as Craig is demanding of him and that doesn't come naturally to him.

Mattner's team-mates are the ones that are actually encouraging Mattner for his own sake to look for another club that will allow him to play his natural game, as they are 100% convinced that allowed to do just that he will be a very good player for that club and enjoy his footy at the same time.

Bloody disappointing actually. :(

[CrowHop]

<snip>

Bloody disappointing actually. :(

Agreed.

I'll be livid if Mattner leaves and tears it up with another club which I can see happening. I'll be doubly spewing if that is Port Adelaide (good possibility) who have no hesitation in recycling players - Rodan and Mahoney.

[Slick Dog Johnson]

One thing I have noticed is no journalist, Rucci included, has bothered to make Craig accountable for this.

Surely you guys could get some sort of word from high up as to why this is happening.

[marvin]

Sorry DT, the reason he was shoved into the back pocket in the first place because all his natual instincts were letting him down!

Sorry Jenny, but I don't believe this for a second.

The one thing Neil Craig has demonstrated consistently in his tenure as coach is that he believes in building the defensive game first, and then working the rest of the game off that. Hence his desire to have creative players like McLeod and Johncock in defense, around the structural rocks like Bassett and Rutten.

A coach with that philosophy doesn't "shove" someone from up the ground into the back pocket. Back pocket is too important a position in the Craig structure for that. I'm prepared to accept that Craig moved him into defence because he thought it would benefit the team, but not because he was disappointing as a wingman.

Mattner's natural instincts as a wingman brought him 20 Brownlow votes in 2005-06. The only Adelaide player who got more votes than that in that time period was Tyson Edwards. He was an emerging gun, who now looks like a bloke who's lost on the field and who's body language suggests he's not enjoying his footy. And that's a crying shame.

[CrowHop]

<cut>

Mattner's natural instincts as a wingman brought him 20 Brownlow votes in 2005-06. The only Adelaide player who got more votes than that in that time period was Tyson Edwards. He was an emerging gun, who now looks like a bloke who's lost on the field and who's body language suggests he's not enjoying his footy. And that's a crying shame.

And he has every right to ask to be traded to revive his career IMO.

Thinking about it now, it's quite tragic for the AFC to have someone of his talent wasted by the coach.

I find it gut wrenching actually....

[johnnypanther]

Jenny, you are so wrong it's not funny.

As a Crows senior player told me a couple of weeks ago in his own words, Craig has destroyed every natural instinct that Marty had which previously made him such a good player.

He has reduced Marty to an uncertain hesitant player who no longer trusts his natural instincts because he is trying to play as Craig is demanding of him and that doesn't come naturally to him.

Mattner's team-mates are the ones that are actually encouraging Mattner for his own sake to look for another club that will allow him to play his natural game, as they are 100% convinced that allowed to do just that he will be a very good player for that club and enjoy his footy at the same time.

Bloody disappointing actually. :(


i hope i'm wrong but your thoughts above regarding Mattner reflect my thoughts (to a lesser degree) on the way Douglas plays when given a game by the Crows - i feel that he has not been playing his own natural game by instinct as he does in the SANFL and consequently that split second of indecision when he tries to do whatever he's been told to do sees him quite often get caught.

[wall_ryan]

lets hope, and im being optimistic here, that craig sent matner to the back pocket to try and develope a little defensive side to his attacking. this year hopefully he goes back to the wing and attacks but has knowlege of where his opponant is

[jenny61_99]

Sorry Jenny, but I don't believe this for a second.

The one thing Neil Craig has demonstrated consistently in his tenure as coach is that he believes in building the defensive game first, and then working the rest of the game off that. Hence his desire to have creative players like McLeod and Johncock in defense, around the structural rocks like Bassett and Rutten.

A coach with that philosophy doesn't "shove" someone from up the ground into the back pocket. Back pocket is too important a position in the Craig structure for that. I'm prepared to accept that Craig moved him into defence because he thought it would benefit the team, but not because he was disappointing as a wingman.

Mattner's natural instincts as a wingman brought him 20 Brownlow votes in 2005-06. The only Adelaide player who got more votes than that in that time period was Tyson Edwards. He was an emerging gun, who now looks like a bloke who's lost on the field and who's body language suggests he's not enjoying his footy. And that's a crying shame.

Well I know this response won't be popular... but here goes. Brownlow votes are not all they are cracked up to be. It means he caught the eye of the umpires - the very same umpires we villify week in and week out for crucifying our team. :rolleyes: We all know that McLeod should have won the Brownlow but failed to poll 1 point in the final round where he had gathered 37 possessions - not 1 vote, so the system is clearly fallable. So to use Mattner's polling in the Brownlow is perhaps not the evidence you are looking for. Yes he was an outstanding player on the wing at times. Other times you just wanted to throttle him. Whether Craig put Mattner back to strengthen the defensive side of his game (which is more likely) or he just wanted to get him off the wing, we will never know. The fact is the Coach - the only one who knows every aspect of this player's game - does not believe he best serves the team playing on the wing.

[James23]

mattner for symes

[cro_Magnum]

Jenny, you are so wrong it's not funny.

As a Crows senior player told me a couple of weeks ago in his own words, Craig has destroyed every natural instinct that Marty had which previously made him such a good player.

He has reduced Marty to an uncertain hesitant player who no longer trusts his natural instincts because he is trying to play as Craig is demanding of him and that doesn't come naturally to him.

Mattner's team-mates are the ones that are actually encouraging Mattner for his own sake to look for another club that will allow him to play his natural game, as they are 100% convinced that allowed to do just that he will be a very good player for that club and enjoy his footy at the same time.

Bloody disappointing actually. :(
If this is true it's extraordinary and I hope management know the story.

It's well known that Craig "had" the players when he started, but these sorts of issues put everyone off side and we all know how teams go when the players are "lost".

[marvin]

Well I know this response won't be popular... but here goes. Brownlow votes are not all they are cracked up to be. It means he caught the eye of the umpires - the very same umpires we villify week in and week out for crucifying our team. :rolleyes: We all know that McLeod should have won the Brownlow but failed to poll 1 point in the final round where he had gathered 37 possessions - not 1 vote, so the system is clearly fallable. So to use Mattner's polling in the Brownlow is perhaps not the evidence you are looking for. Yes he was an outstanding player on the wing at times. Other times you just wanted to throttle him. Whether Craig put Mattner back to strengthen the defensive side of his game (which is more likely) or he just wanted to get him off the wing, we will never know. The fact is the Coach - the only one who knows every aspect of this player's game - does not believe he best serves the team playing on the wing.

We all remember the McLeod zero vote game. However, the umpires don't get it _that_ wrong, whether it comes to the Brownlow or crucifixion, as much as we'd hate to admit it.

These things also tend to average out, so the fact that Macca got 3 votes in a losing showdown while Matthew Primus (3 goals and as many hitouts as Clarke, Biglands and Marsh combined) got zero a few weeks earlier tends to be overlooked by us. We just remember that ge got zero votes against Freo.

I would suggest then that being the number 2 Crow in Brownlow votes over a 2 year period cannot be as easily discounted as you'd like, just because you want to throttle him sometimes. Even if you want to quibble about his consistency in that role (and I'd take issue with that) it's undeniable that in his best games on the wing, he was capable of being the best on the ground, by the estimates of the umpires, the media, and by us mere Bigfooty voters. In his best games in defence, he's capable of not being dragged.

If you don't like the Brownlow, how about the B+F? The one the coaches vote on, that reflects how each player does his job? In 2005, Mattner's year as a pure wingman, he finished 8th. In 2006, as a winger early then a defender later in the year, he finished 11th. Over that 2 year period, he polled better than Burton, than Thompson, than all the ruckmen, than Hentschel, than Welsh when fit, and right up there next to Roo.

This year, as a defender, he'll be well and truly below that, like he was in 2004 when Gary Ayres insisted he chase the likes of Medhurst and Milne around to little effect.

The motives of Neil Craig in moving Mattner from the wing to defence are beyond you, I or anyone else to know. I'm not going to speculate. The outcomes are unarguable. Mattner has gone from being in all-Australian contention in a minor premier team 2 years ago to being a fringe player in a team that barely made the finals now, because of a decision made by the coaches. And even worse, by making this decision and devaluing him as a player, if he _does_ move on to greener pastures this off season, he's got less trade value than he did 2 years ago because of that same decision.

[King Elvis]

Jenny, you are so wrong it's not funny.

As a Crows senior player told me a couple of weeks ago in his own words, Craig has destroyed every natural instinct that Marty had which previously made him such a good player.

He has reduced Marty to an uncertain hesitant player who no longer trusts his natural instincts because he is trying to play as Craig is demanding of him and that doesn't come naturally to him.

Mattner's team-mates are the ones that are actually encouraging Mattner for his own sake to look for another club that will allow him to play his natural game, as they are 100% convinced that allowed to do just that he will be a very good player for that club and enjoy his footy at the same time.

Bloody disappointing actually. :(

Has what you've stated there caused any ill feeling between the players and Craig?

Jenny - you can't point at Mattner's brainfades and say it's justified to move him into the back pocket. Otherwise, we'd need to drop Burton & Thomson for their clangers and brain explosions, we should've dropped Perrie years ago for being rubbish at marking and kicking goals, we should drop Chris Knights for his ordinary disposal at times this year.

No player is perfect, but if they have very obvious strengths that makes them worthwhile, you play to those strengths.

[King Elvis]

I wouldn't take that word for word tbqh.

I don't care how'd you take it - please don't post responses which don't actually add or contribute anything, or fail to answer an obvious question.


Mattner's natural instincts as a wingman brought him 20 Brownlow votes in 2005-06. The only Adelaide player ho got more votes than that in that time period was Tyson Edwards.

Marvin - that's an excellent illustration of the downfall of Matter.

If bighawk really is Rucci, he should do a story on this topic, would be interesting to look into.

Also makes you wonder whether Mattner is an isolated case, or whether (as the guy with the Port Magpies avatar suggested) a number of players are being forced to completely change their game.

[King Elvis]

If you understood what was being said you would know that it did contribute something - it suggested that your question may not even be applicable.

I understood it, otherwise how would I know it was pointless? It 'suggested' that might question might not even be applicable?

How about we let Macca answer it, so we actually know for sure.

[macca23]

I understood it, otherwise how would I know it was pointless? It 'suggested' that might question might not even be applicable?

How about we let Macca answer it, so we actually know for sure.

I have no idea what fightingdreamer is getting at actually. :confused:

I had a half hour conversation with a senior Crows player a couple of weeks ago and I have posted exactly what he told me - no more, no less - about both McGregor and Mattner.

If he cares to check he'll find that I posted that McGregor was unhappy with the club's treatment of him and wished to be traded well before it became public.

Also what I have posted about Mattner is exactly what I was told by that player on that day.

Is there ill-feeling between the players in general and Craig?? The answer is no.

Is there ill-feeling by certain individual players towards Craig?? The answer obviously is yes, as it is the case in every football club.

[jenny61_99]

Has what you've stated there caused any ill feeling between the players and Craig?

Jenny - you can't point at Mattner's brainfades and say it's justified to move him into the back pocket. Otherwise, we'd need to drop Burton & Thomson for their clangers and brain explosions, we should've dropped Perrie years ago for being rubbish at marking and kicking goals, we should drop Chris Knights for his ordinary disposal at times this year.

No player is perfect, but if they have very obvious strengths that makes them worthwhile, you play to those strengths.

Look that's very true. I am just as frustrated with Thommo, Burton and Edwards for the same reason, but they (at least Thommo and Edwards) get far more of the ball than Mattner ever did - even at his best on the wing - and therefore make up for the brain fades to a certain extent. Burton is brilliant one minute and frustrating as hell the next. But he can win a game off his own boot... I'm not so sure Marty could. Knights is only young and therefore you make allowances and know (hope) he can only get better.

Anyways, it's clear I am on my own regarding Mattner. And that's cool. I understand that I could well be wrong... but that's how you learn. I promise this though - when Craig is up here next year, that will be one of the first questions we ask him and I will report it back here word for word.

[Jarmayhem]

I have no idea what fightingdreamer is getting at actually. :confused:

I had a half hour conversation with a senior Crows player a couple of weeks ago and I have posted exactly what he told me - no more, no less - about both McGregor and Mattner.

If he cares to check he'll find that I posted that McGregor was unhappy with the club's treatment of him and wished to be traded well before it became public.

Also what I have posted about Mattner is exactly what I was told by that player on that day.

Is there ill-feeling between the players in general and Craig?? The answer is no.

Is there ill-feeling by certain individual players towards Craig?? The answer obviously is yes, as it is the case in every football club.

That is a huge shame re: Mattner and as a previous poster said we can only hope that he's put back on the wing with his new defensive skills next year for US and not someone else via trade week (unless it's best for Marty and the Crows).

It's also good to know that the player you spoke to was able to be so honest about things around the club. Is he a friend of yours or just someone willing to discuss stuff honestly with a fan?

[macca23]

That is a huge shame re: Mattner and as a previous poster said we can only hope that he's put back on the wing with his new defensive skills next year for US and not someone else via trade week (unless it's best for Marty and the Crows).

It's also good to know that the player you spoke to was able to be so honest about things around the club. Is he a friend of yours or just someone willing to discuss stuff honestly with a fan?




I've got to know him over a period of time.

I'm not sure that he would be quite as open with every supporter, as he knows I won't quote his name.

[Jarmayhem]

I've got to know him over a period of time.

I'm not sure that he would be quite as open with every supporter, as he knows I won't quote his name.

No that's cool I didn't want a name, it's just good to have that kind of honesty in discussion.

Anyway, hopefully Marty stays and this topic becomes a moot point!

I wonder if we'll be as aggressive in trade week as our officials are making us out to be?

Could be some surprises come trade week I think...

[GlaCial]

Ricciuto (retired)
Perrie (as good as retired)
Doughty (still tries to handball whilst off balance/on back foot)
Mattner (no peripheral vision, automatically drops his vision down and tucks the ball under his arm - stick to running the 100 m)
Bode (plays hard, but doesn't have the body to stay fit)
Biglands (doesn't pulverize the opposition enough, and when he does gets reported and uses the lame excuse that he watches McLeod do it at training so decides he can do it too)
Burton (coz I'm sick of the ticket holders behind me bagging him every time he gets the ball)

[- PC -]

I promise this though - when Craig is up here next year, that will be one of the first questions we ask him and I will report it back here word for word.

I must have missed something but wasnt this the one question you were going to put to NC this year?

[jenny61_99]

I must have missed something but wasnt this the one question you were going to put to NC this year?

We asked whether he thought about using Mattner as a run-with player because he tackles well and plays close and he might find the ball. The response (from memory) was that they'd tried him in the mid-field and that didn't work. I think that whole weekend was a blur - breakfast was on the day of the game instead of the next day so everything was arse about.

The next time though, I will go fully armed and take a list of grievances from here... even if Mattner does end up going somewhere else, I still want to know.

[Crow-mo]

I wouldn't take what Macca23 said word for word tbqh.


that's nice for you :)

[MickyCrow]

Well today changes things doesnt it

Now we have Roo retired and Perrie (retires?), Bode with injuries

and we go into trade week with

Hudson
McGregor
Meesen
Mattner
Jericho

Seem to be one too many disgruntled players for my liking

Hey at least we should finish with at least 5 picks in the top 40

[Vader]

I think we can safely say that Biglands will DEFINITELY be retained now. No way on earth they're going to delist our only remaining experienced ruckman.

Hopefully the kids can show dramatic improvement in 2008 (as their bodies mature) and we can look forward to them taking over full-time in 2009.

[Redline]

Well today changes things doesnt it

Now we have Roo retired and Perrie (retires?), Bode with injuries

and we go into trade week with

Hudson
McGregor
Meesen
Mattner
Jericho

Seem to be one too many disgruntled players for my liking

Hey at least we should finish with at least 5 picks in the top 40

Gone are Roo, Hudson, McGregor, Perrie

Then 3 out of these 5 to possibly be traded or delisted Meesen, Jericho, Hinge, Bode and Campbell. Personally I think Meesen is going and delist Bode and Hinge. I get the feeling Craig will want to keep Jericho and I'd give Campbell another year.

[King Elvis]

Well today changes things doesnt it

Now we have Roo retired and Perrie (retires?), Bode with injuries

and we go into trade week with

Hudson
McGregor
Meesen
Mattner
Jericho

Seem to be one too many disgruntled players for my liking

Hey at least we should finish with at least 5 picks in the top 40

Seems to be looking that way doesn't it.

[Geoffa32]

Will be the most changed line up we ahve seen in a while....

Maybe finally our club is looking to the future, and not chasing the elusive flag with quick fixes....

[Capitalist]

Will be the most changed line up we ahve seen in a while....

Maybe finally our club is looking to the future, and not chasing the elusive flag with quick fixes....


amen to that

[WheresGroomgone]

Well don't tar and feather me if this doesn't come to fruition however, have it on pretty good authority that the Sarge will still be with us in 2008. I don't think he has any intention of retiring and the club seem to want to keep him. I think the hysteria of "5 or 6 players going" has gone crazy, and from a very close source don't think there will be much of a clear out as well. Also the youth of the club aren't held in the same optomistic light by at least one established player that many of us do, and we could be in for some lean years!!AAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!

[Geoffa32]

I hope he stays I like the sarge...He is an honest Worker, although not blessed his defensive pressure in forward line is great. The only problem was this year we had no small forwards to take advantage.....

He is one older player i would mind staying on

[CrowMagnum]

I have no idea what fightingdreamer is getting at actually. :confused:

I had a half hour conversation with a senior Crows player a couple of weeks ago and I have posted exactly what he told me - no more, no less - about both McGregor and Mattner.

If he cares to check he'll find that I posted that McGregor was unhappy with the club's treatment of him and wished to be traded well before it became public.

Also what I have posted about Mattner is exactly what I was told by that player on that day.

Is there ill-feeling between the players in general and Craig?? The answer is no.

After today are you sure?

[macca23]

After today are you sure?

Yeah, I am.

We do have certain players who have resentment with Craig or feel that they have been unfairly treated and that exists in every footy club.

My comment was that in general there is no ill-feeling between the players and Craig.

[AndrewJo]

I think we can safely say that Biglands will DEFINITELY be retained now. No way on earth they're going to delist our only remaining experienced ruckman.

Hopefully the kids can show dramatic improvement in 2008 (as their bodies mature) and we can look forward to them taking over full-time in 2009.Biglands is on contract for one more year anyway. I would think that his days of a ruckamn were over.KP player for Brett,

[- PC -]

Well don't tar and feather me if this doesn't come to fruition however, have it on pretty good authority that the Sarge will still be with us in 2008. I don't think he has any intention of retiring and the club seem to want to keep him. I think the hysteria of "5 or 6 players going" has gone crazy, and from a very close source don't think there will be much of a clear out as well. Also the youth of the club aren't held in the same optomistic light by at least one established player that many of us do, and we could be in for some lean years!!AAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!

I cant see it.

Interesting rumour put by Rooch in todays paper... what player declined to play SANFL due to lower pay?

[jenny61_99]

Gone are Roo, Hudson, McGregor, Perrie

Then 3 out of these 5 to possibly be traded or delisted Meesen, Jericho, Hinge, Bode and Campbell. Personally I think Meesen is going and delist Bode and Hinge. I get the feeling Craig will want to keep Jericho and I'd give Campbell another year.

Don't forget Archard - he's a definite delist.

[WheresGroomgone]

I cant see it.

Interesting rumour put by Rooch in todays paper... what player declined to play SANFL due to lower pay?


Well you and most of us have read into that the it was Sarge ,however, it wasn't, so whether the Cockrooch has made it up or is talking about someone else who knows, but AFC made the decision on him playing finals, another reason to suggest he won't be delisted

[crowsarethebest]

I would like to know the real reason for playing Mattner in defense. To get his defensive side of the game up? I'm sorry Neil but sticking him in a back pocket is only going to get him to lose confidence. Mattner is a natural attacking wingman, I doubt he will ever have a good defensive side to him except for tackling. It is a shame because Craig loves defense. It seems Craig doesn't think Mattner can be part of his game plan if he doesn't have a defensive side. While I accept Craig's decision, surely he can work around it? Mattner could be one of the Leagues most damaging wingman and 2007 was looknig like it was going to be a his break out year. From 2006 to 2007 he has gone from a potential star to a probable trade candidate.

[Drummond]

Don't forget Archard - he's a definite delist.
?

He was on the rookie list therefore you can't "delist" him, he's simply released. He doesn't count as moving someone on from the list...

[jenny61_99]

?

He was on the rookie list therefore you can't "delist" him, he's simply released. He doesn't count as moving someone on from the list...

Oops... my bad :o

[Nige_Bix]

I would like to know the real reason for playing Mattner in defense. To get his defensive side of the game up? I'm sorry Neil but sticking him in a back pocket is only going to get him to lose confidence. Mattner is a natural attacking wingman, I doubt he will ever have a good defensive side to him except for tackling. It is a shame because Craig loves defense. It seems Craig doesn't think Mattner can be part of his game plan if he doesn't have a defensive side. While I accept Craig's decision, surely he can work around it? Mattner could be one of the Leagues most damaging wingman and 2007 was looknig like it was going to be a his break out year. From 2006 to 2007 he has gone from a potential star to a probable trade candidate.The exact question I have been wondering about for ages. For a while it seemed we had an emerging talent who had the ability to break the game open and become a top class player. It really grates me to see where his status is now - even given all the brainfades etc etc that he is now known for. I reckon if he had continued to play on the wing he would have many less negatives in his game than he has now.

[King Elvis]

Seriously, we couldn't possibly be thinking of keeping Perrie could we?

[GlaCial]

The exact question I have been wondering about for ages. For a while it seemed we had an emerging talent who had the ability to break the game open and become a top class player. It really grates me to see where his status is now - even given all the brainfades etc etc that he is now known for. I reckon if he had continued to play on the wing he would have many less negatives in his game than he has now.

By brainfades do you mean getting run down? In which case I don't think they are brainfades, but poor coaching in his junior days. Have you ever watched what he does when he gets the ball in slow-mo? He drops his vision and tucks the ball under his arm, like a 100 m sprinter. That might be OK in training drills, but it's bad in a game. He has had 3 years to get it right, but he is still doing it. I fear he will never get it right.

[crowsarethebest]

By brainfades do you mean getting run down? In which case I don't think they are brainfades, but poor coaching in his junior days. Have you ever watched what he does when he gets the ball in slow-mo? He drops his vision and tucks the ball under his arm, like a 100 m sprinter. That might be OK in training drills, but it's bad in a game. He has had 3 years to get it right, but he is still doing it. I fear he will never get it right.

He's got bad awareness and tunnel vision. Those are probably his bad points.

[PCORF]

I think this team has gotten rid of way too many good players. If Stenglein stayed we would have won a flag in either 05 or 06. I think we lose players because they lose faith because this team struggles in tight games, especially in the Finals.

It might be time to have a bad year next year (8 or 9 wins) and miss the 8 but this team has a long history in rebuilding into a Finals contender and they'll be back to give it another bite for sure. Lets develop some of the younger guys like Sellar/Griffin, etc.

Ken McGregor - Trade
Luke Jehricho - Trade to Carlton
Kris Massie - Possibly Trade
Mark Ricciuto - Delisted/Retired
J. Meesen - Out, 2 games for number 2
Ian Perrie - Out / should go back to the army!

Doughty - is doubtful hence his name. He might be playing SANFL next year.
Brett Burton - 2 more years left if lucky, suffers too many injuries due to the way he throws his body around. But he's an awesome player to watch when healthy.
Rhett Biglands - 2 more years left
Andrew McLeod - 2 more years left
Tyson Endwards - 1 or 2 more years
Matthew Bode - Played just 1 game this year. Your Last Chance next year!

Bring back Hayden Skipworth (I'm not sure if he played footy this year)

We might be able to get Brendan Fevola next year
WCE sends C. Judd to Carlton
ADE sends L.Jehrico to Carlton
CAR sends B.Fevola to Adelaide and a few other players to WCE
We can get 45-50 goals from Fevola.

[dyertribe]

Bring back Hayden Skipworth (I'm not sure if he played footy this year)

...

CAR sends B.Fevola to Adelaide and a few other players to WCE
We can get 45-50 goals from Fevola.

Skippy did his knee playing in the VFL.

Fev, with the benefit of Goodwin, Edwards, Reilly, Knights and van Berlo delivering him the pill would boot a minimum of 70-80 goals provided he was on deck for 20-22 games.

Anything less would be a disappointment.

[James_37]

Some how PCORF, I don't think we will get Fevola for Jericho, just don't see it happening. Other than that like it, wouldn't mind seeing Fev in the Blue Red and Yellow.

To Mattner I tend to agree with those who say NC has wrecked him as a player. He was the best tackler in the league in 05, we hardly ever see those great chase's and tackles anymore, shame, put him back on the wing and give him a license to run.

As for those of you who think keep talking about this bloke called Edwards who apparently has brain fades and has 1 year left in him, not sure we have such a player on our list. We have a Tyson Edwards, #9, has about 20 runnerups in the B&F, possibly another this year, as well as probably the 3rd most brownlow votes for a Crows player, most consistent player in our squad. Now if you are talking about Tyson, you quite clearly have no idea about football and i don't know why I've even bothered joining this forum. Tyson has atleast 3 years left in him, possibly more, if our younger midfielders step up then maybe he could play 5 as a small forward. He is the most skilled and reliable player in our squad, cannot remember the last time he made a mistake, probably the 90's, only downfall is perhaps his set shots, but hey, wouldn't be the only one at the crows.

[King Elvis]

Some how PCORF, I don't think we will get Fevola for Jericho, just don't see it happening. Other than that like it, wouldn't mind seeing Fev in the Blue Red and Yellow.

To Mattner I tend to agree with those who say NC has wrecked him as a player. He was the best tackler in the league in 05, we hardly ever see those great chase's and tackles anymore, shame, put him back on the wing and give him a license to run.

As for those of you who think keep talking about this bloke called Edwards who apparently has brain fades and has 1 year left in him, not sure we have such a player on our list. We have a Tyson Edwards, #9, has about 20 runnerups in the B&F, possibly another this year, as well as probably the 3rd most brownlow votes for a Crows player, most consistent player in our squad. Now if you are talking about Tyson, you quite clearly have no idea about football and i don't know why I've even bothered joining this forum. Tyson has atleast 3 years left in him, possibly more, if our younger midfielders step up then maybe he could play 5 as a small forward. He is the most skilled and reliable player in our squad, cannot remember the last time he made a mistake, probably the 90's, only downfall is perhaps his set shots, but hey, wouldn't be the only one at the crows.

For some reason every time a player turns about thirty, everyone says they've only got a year or two left, regardless of fitness or form.

[PsyCrow23]

I remember hearing earlier this year that Goodwin said he would retire if the crows won the flag in '07 & if not he'd only go on one more year.

[jenny61_99]

Some how PCORF, I don't think we will get Fevola for Jericho, just don't see it happening. Other than that like it, wouldn't mind seeing Fev in the Blue Red and Yellow.

To Mattner I tend to agree with those who say NC has wrecked him as a player. He was the best tackler in the league in 05, we hardly ever see those great chase's and tackles anymore, shame, put him back on the wing and give him a license to run.

As for those of you who think keep talking about this bloke called Edwards who apparently has brain fades and has 1 year left in him, not sure we have such a player on our list. We have a Tyson Edwards, #9, has about 20 runnerups in the B&F, possibly another this year, as well as probably the 3rd most brownlow votes for a Crows player, most consistent player in our squad. Now if you are talking about Tyson, you quite clearly have no idea about football and i don't know why I've even bothered joining this forum. Tyson has atleast 3 years left in him, possibly more, if our younger midfielders step up then maybe he could play 5 as a small forward. He is the most skilled and reliable player in our squad, cannot remember the last time he made a mistake, probably the 90's, only downfall is perhaps his set shots, but hey, wouldn't be the only one at the crows.

You can't be serious???? :eek: Edwards - yes TYSON Edwards, has been turning the ball over with regularity. He often either handballs to a player surrounded by opposition, or worse yet, directly to the opposition. He is still a very good player, but he's no longer the "under-rated" player everyone used to talk about. You clearly haven't watched many games this year.

[King Elvis]

You can't be serious???? :eek: Edwards - yes TYSON Edwards, has been turning the ball over with regularity. He often either handballs to a player surrounded by opposition, or worse yet, directly to the opposition. He is still a very good player, but he's no longer the "under-rated" player everyone used to talk about. You clearly haven't watched many games this year.

He hasn't had his best year, but he's still had a good year.

[jenny61_99]

He hasn't had his best year, but he's still had a good year.

Yeah, look, Ive said a few times, that he's still a very good player (although not as good as he has been). But I have found myself yelling at the screen (or footy field) more and more this year when these avoidable turnovers occur. He has made some shockers this year (not on his own there though)... and I find it hard to believe that someone in here believes he "can't remember the last time Edwards made a mistake". :rolleyes:

[vB7]

Tyson is still trying to play the way he did 5 years ago. He baulks and weaves opponents - but has been caught way too many times this year.

Still - he needs to play another year or 2 so that a changing of the midfield guard can take place.

There's no way he is at risk this year.

[King Elvis]

Jenny, not arguing, but also keep in mind that our hand and foot skills have been down considerably on the last couple of years almost across the entire team.

[Wayne's-World]

Yeah, look, Ive said a few times, that he's still a very good player (although not as good as he has been). But I have found myself yelling at the screen (or footy field) more and more this year when these avoidable turnovers occur. He has made some shockers this year (not on his own there though)... and I find it hard to believe that someone in here believes he "can't remember the last time Edwards made a mistake". :rolleyes:
Haven't seen a noticable drop-off from Edwards this year ....he has been very important and a good midfield contributor.

He has always had this penchant for getting caught holding the ball .........3-4 seasons ago it was a real problem for him ......not so much in recent seasons.

But he's not quick and tends to bulk, and do 360 turns to avoid opposition, so he does get caught a bit ....but it's no worse and does not signify an age thing.

[jenny61_99]

Jenny, not arguing, but also keep in mind that our hand and foot skills have been down considerably on the last couple of years almost across the entire team.

I am talking more about his decision making I think. Whether the act of disposal is accurate or not, it's who he decides to pass it to that is the major problem - either someone under immense pressure or someone on the other team! I think I expect better from someone of his calibre. And I agree with you, our basic skill levels were atrocious in a lot of games this year.

[johnnypanther]

You can't be serious???? :eek: Edwards - yes TYSON Edwards, has been turning the ball over with regularity. He often either handballs to a player surrounded by opposition, or worse yet, directly to the opposition. He is still a very good player, but he's no longer the "under-rated" player everyone used to talk about. You clearly haven't watched many games this year.

i sort of agree with you - although he's still a decent player
IMO he is overrated now - hangs on to the ball too long/ gets caught too often/disposal not the best
i think he's got 1 year left possibly 2 at the most (in our best 22 line-up)

[BlackDouglas]

For some reason every time a player turns about thirty, everyone says they've only got a year or two left, regardless of fitness or form.

Because the majority of players enter the system as a 17/18 year old kid.

After 12 or 13 pre seasons and then 250+ games it starts to take a tole on your body and the probability exist that most players 30 or over will start breaking down.

It’s only the special ones like Craig Bradley who can go past their 35th birthday.

[TheLeftFist8]

So what's the go with Luke Jericho? Is he a definite trade or is it just BigFooty speculation at this stage?

I know i'll be in the minority here but i hope he has another year on the Adelaide list. Plenty of others to be off-loaded first. Give him a decent run on Wing/HFF thru the pre-season and see what happens. A full season rotating thru those positions would net 30+ goals next year (and hopefully his opponent would kick less than that;))

[James_37]

TheLeftFist8 mate, I agree he has talent, but I think the year for that was this year and as soon as Jericho started to look good he was dropped and killed any confidence he may have gained. Could be a very good player, has numerous different X-factors, eg Height, speed, athleticism, good long kick etc, however he just hasn't had the opportunities and not sure he will get them next year. May still be held onto with Perrie, McGregor and Ricciuto leaving as this leaves us with very few tall options up forward. That said a change in scenery may be good for him.

[crowsarethebest]

Our whole team is crap. Yeah, lets trade away the players that have a slight weakness to the game. If you go by that theory no one will be playing AFL. Every body has a weakness, some are more pronounced than others. Edwards's positives FAR outweigh his negatives.

[BunjiMac]

Our whole team is crap. Yeah, lets trade away the players that have a slight weakness to the game. If you go by that theory no one will be playing AFL. Every body has a weakness, some are more pronounced than others. Edwards's positives FAR outweigh his negatives.

I still think Edwards is in our best 22 at present, but I don't think he should play in the midfield next year. Maybe a forward pocket or half back flank. I would really like a youngster to take Edwards spot in the midfield rotation. On the other hand I would like to see Goodwin continue in the midfield rotation and maybe give McLeod some midfield time next year (could do so much damage).

[James_37]

I would also like to see Edwards get less time in the midfield and finally that seems to be happening, Thomson, Reilly, Knights have stood up, van Berlo and Douglas would probably be next as well as Mackay looking like a star and maybe a Vince, Pfeiffer and Porplyzia also. However I would still rate Edwards in our top 3 midfielders with Goodwin and Thomson.

[out of order]

I would also like to see Edwards get less time in the midfield and finally that seems to be happening, Thomson, Reilly, Knights have stood up, van Berlo and Douglas would probably be next as well as Mackay looking like a star and maybe a Vince, Pfeiffer and Porplyzia also. However I would still rate Edwards in our top 3 midfielders with Goodwin and Thomson.
keep edwards in the middle move goody to half back

[jenny61_99]

Our whole team is crap. Yeah, lets trade away the players that have a slight weakness to the game. If you go by that theory no one will be playing AFL. Every body has a weakness, some are more pronounced than others. Edwards's positives FAR outweigh his negatives.

I wouldn't trade him for a minute! Clearly still in our best 22... but as someone else pointed out, the whole squad was down on skills this year, Edwards was no exception. Decision making and disposal are essential things to a good footy team. Our guys must get back to basics come pre-season and sharpen all these things up.

[jenny61_99]

keep edwards in the middle move goody to half back

I think I've said somewhere in this wide abyss that is BF that I reckon you should move both edwards and goody back and let the younger blokes loose in the middle. If Edwards and Goodwin play back, you can release both McLeod and Stiffy into the forward flanks with perhaps the odd burst on the ball. That could solve our missing crumber problem we've had in the forward structure, and give the young blokes valuable on ball experience.

[NikkiNoo]

I think I've said somewhere in this wide abyss that is BF that I reckon you should move both edwards and goody back and let the younger blokes loose in the middle. If Edwards and Goodwin play back, you can release both McLeod and Stiffy into the forward flanks with perhaps the odd burst on the ball. That could solve our missing crumber problem we've had in the forward structure, and give the young blokes valuable on ball experience.

This happened many a time this year Jenny. Edwards and Goodwin were 'rested' up forward at stages - sometimes with good effect, sometimes not. Goodwin was also used off the half back line / wing at centre bounces while our 'younger' players like Thompson, Reilly, Knights and van Berlo were set loose in the midfield. Other times Knights and VB would line up on the wing while the 'A' Team were in the middle.

It is partly the reason why I think Mattner and Burton were not back on the wings like many were hoping. Burton due to injuries this year and Mattner because we were using the wings as an extended midfield rotation on the ground so that our younger midfielders could get a decent amount of game time on the ground.

[BunjiMac]

This happened many a time this year Jenny. Edwards and Goodwin were 'rested' up forward at stages


I think what Jenny wants to see is Edwards and Goodwin play back as opposed to being rested forward so Stiffy and Bunji can be released forward or into the midfield.

[Stiffy_18]

I think what Jenny wants to see is Edwards and Goodwin play back as opposed to being rested forward so Stiffy and Bunji can be released forward or into the midfield.
If our game plan stays the same then I personally wouldn't like to see this. McLeod and Johncock are our 2 most creative players and since our game plan is based on rebound and creativity out of defence, than I wouldn't be moving those 2 boys any time soon. Sure, pinch hit them at other positions to give you a "spark" when you need it but keep them in defence.

I think you could mount a case for say moving McLeod forward and Goodwin to HB to pair him woth Johncock, but you still lose a bit of that creativity and pace off the HBF which is what our game is based on.

I think people want to move Johncock and McLeod into the forward line to give us much needed boost but don't realise that we would be robbing Peter to pay Paul to some degree. Johncock and McLeod are major players in getting the ball into the forward line either directly or indirectly as our attack starts with them. Move that away and it might affect your ability to get it inside 50 often enough!

[BunjiMac]

If our game plan stays the same then I personally wouldn't like to see this. McLeod and Johncock are our 2 most creative players and since our game plan is based on rebound and creativity out of defence, than I wouldn't be moving those 2 boys any time soon. Sure, pinch hit them at other positions to give you a "spark" when you need it but keep them in defence.

I think you could mount a case for say moving McLeod forward and Goodwin to HB to pair him woth Johncock, but you still lose a bit of that creativity and pace off the HBF which is what our game is based on.

I think people want to move Johncock and McLeod into the forward line to give us much needed boost but don't realise that we would be robbing Peter to pay Paul to some degree. Johncock and McLeod are major players in getting the ball into the forward line either directly or indirectly as our attack starts with them. Move that away and it might affect your ability to get it inside 50 often enough!

Yeah that is very true, but for me that is whats disappointing about this year and our game plan. That our two most creative and potentially damaging players play in that half of the field. If they were freed of these defensive responsibilities and moved further up the field I think our brand of football would be much more exciting and pleasing to the eye. But yes I understand they are a vital part our backline and a huge part of what makes it great. I would be happy to try Edwards there, even if that means we leak more goals to play a more exciting brand of football. Like i said befor I would prefer Goodwin in the middle

[jenny61_99]

If our game plan stays the same then I personally wouldn't like to see this. McLeod and Johncock are our 2 most creative players and since our game plan is based on rebound and creativity out of defence, than I wouldn't be moving those 2 boys any time soon. Sure, pinch hit them at other positions to give you a "spark" when you need it but keep them in defence.

I think you could mount a case for say moving McLeod forward and Goodwin to HB to pair him woth Johncock, but you still lose a bit of that creativity and pace off the HBF which is what our game is based on.

I think people want to move Johncock and McLeod into the forward line to give us much needed boost but don't realise that we would be robbing Peter to pay Paul to some degree. Johncock and McLeod are major players in getting the ball into the forward line either directly or indirectly as our attack starts with them. Move that away and it might affect your ability to get it inside 50 often enough!

You don't think Goody and Edwards could provide that creativity and move the ball forward? I mean you could well be right, but I think McLeod is wasted back there when he could be sharking goals all over the place whilst up forward!

[Stiffy_18]

You don't think Goody and Edwards could provide that creativity and move the ball forward? I mean you could well be right, but I think McLeod is wasted back there when he could be sharking goals all over the place whilst up forward!
I don't think they can provide it to the extent that McLeod and Johncock do. Neither Goodwin nor Edwards have that evasive ability and pace that allow the likes od McLeod and Johncock to get out of tricky situations and move the ball out of our backline!

Goodwin and Edwards are more of a straight running type players where as McLeod and Johncock have better evasive ability and can take and break better in those situations. I could well be wrong but its the way I see it.