Do we have the b*lls to target Westhoff?

[SpringChoke]

Forget Didak, Davey, Ottens etc, last nights CH10 news also mentioned we might target Westhoff. Now that would be a good get. With Ports unbelievable array of GENUINE talent, surely we can offer Westhoff more than they can. If we can't, then we really need to look at what we are paying our multitiude of "solids". After gifting them S Burgoyne, Pearce and K Cornes, it would be nice to get one back.

Do we have the b#lls to offer Westhoff a deal he can't refuse?

[Capitalist]

no offence springy

but worst thread - ever :p

[jmorg1]

Are new draftees contracted for at least two seasons? I rate the guy but there's no way known Port will let him go.

[macca23]

Pointless thread really Springy.

What does everyone want from Father Xmas and the Easter bunny. ;)

[SpringChoke]

no offence springy

but worst thread - ever :p

He he, you're probably right. :oBut we could really upset the applecart. I see it as a WIN/WIN. The remote chance we could entice him over would be a win. If we can't, then we bump up what Port are currently paying him by $50-$100k and push them closer to their salary cap ceiling.

It's just wishful thinking, we all know the powers that be at the AFC don't like to upset Port.

[J-Ro-20]

the Hoff would be great to have yes - but dealing with port and the actual chances of getting him are slim to none. a 1% chance of getting him.

we are best off studying the draft to look for another forward talent to create one from scratch..

[Capitalist]

He he, you're probably right. :oBut we could really upset the applecart. I see it as a WIN/WIN. The remote chance we could entice him over would be a win. If we can't, then we bump up what Port are currently paying him by $50-$100k and push them closer to their salary cap ceiling.

It's just wishful thinking, we all know the powers that be at the AFC don't like to upset Port.

I just think he is the wrong player for AFC.

time will tell I suppose.

[SpringChoke]

I just think he is the wrong player for AFC.

time will tell I suppose.

Are you serious Cap? Why do you think that?

IMO he is exactly the sort of player we should be targeting. He's young,, a hey-forward and has huge potential. He will be one of the competitions next super-forwards for years to come. We need him more than we need mid-twenties small forwards.

[jackster83]

Why don't we just recruit one of his brothers?

[Slick Dog Johnson]

Why the hell didn't you recruit him in the first place?

[SpringChoke]

Why the hell didn't you recruit him in the first place?

True. But then you could ask the same question to 14 other clubs.

[Slick Dog Johnson]

True. But then you could ask the same question to 14 other clubs.
Yeh, definetely, there are 15 clubs in the AFL thinking to themselves 'why didn't we use our fifth rounder on him'.

I guess it would just seem more logical that Adelaide was the one who really should have taken him. It's funny, I reckon if you took Westhoff first, Port wouldn't have taken Nick Gill instead and he would have made it through to your next pick (where you took Bryce Campbell).

[afc9798]

Are you serious Cap? Why do you think that?

IMO he is exactly the sort of player we should be targeting. He's young,, a hey-forward and has huge potential. He will be one of the competitions next super-forwards for years to come. We need him more than we need mid-twenties small forwards.

He's undoubtedly had a great year this year, but I still have reservations about what he will turn out to be in the longer term. As has happened many times before, they try to put a big frame on these guys and they start to get injured a lot, lose their agility and their vertical leap.

He will cop a lot more attention in the future, but time will tell. I hope for the kid's sake that he turns out to be what is now expected of him, but I don't see him being a star forward. That's my opinion anyway....:)

[bus24]

Yeh, definetely, there are 15 clubs in the AFL thinking to themselves 'why didn't we use our fifth rounder on him'.

I guess it would just seem more logical that Adelaide was the one who really should have taken him. It's funny, I reckon if you took Westhoff first, Port wouldn't have taken Nick Gill instead and he would have made it through to your next pick (where you took Bryce Campbell).

Port and Adelaide were always going to take one of Gill + Hoff from memory.

If Trent hadn't gone down, we might not have taken Gill for insurance and ended up taking the younger dude. (Most people around here actually wanted Hoff)

It's been VERY surprising to see how well he's done, considering he was never an Outstanding player at SANFL level. At least not that I can remember anyway.

[Slick Dog Johnson]

Port and Adelaide were always going to take one of Gill + Hoff from memory.

If Trent hadn't gone down, we might not have taken Gill for insurance and ended up taking the younger dude. (Most people around here actually wanted Hoff)

It's been VERY surprising to see how well he's done, considering he was never an Outstanding player at SANFL level. At least not that I can remember anyway.
You could definetely see his talents though.

[Capitalist]

Are you serious Cap? Why do you think that?

IMO he is exactly the sort of player we should be targeting. He's young,, a hey-forward and has huge potential. He will be one of the competitions next super-forwards for years to come. We need him more than we need mid-twenties small forwards.

Look don't get me wrong - he has done extremely well this year, but i'm not convienced he will ever take the No.1 spot. Even Damon white was a revelation in his first year (I think he is better than Damon).

but as I said - time will tell he may turn out to be the next Dunstall, but i'm not convinced yet.

[Slick Dog Johnson]

There is one trump card the crows hold at the moment though. Brad Ebert.

If you guys could get pick 3, which would all but guarantee Port Brad Ebert, then I think they would give you Westhoff + something else (their first/second pick or a player).

Then use other trade players (McGregor, Jericho etc) to secure yourself a lateish first rounder

[Capitalist]

There is one trump card the crows hold at the moment though. Brad Ebert.

If you guys could get pick 3, which would all but guarantee Port Brad Ebert, then I think they would give you Westhoff + something else (their first/second pick or a player).

Then use other trade players (McGregor, Jericho etc) to secure yourself a lateish first rounder



no they wont, shit we offered them pick 17 for Damon White and they didn't take that

[Slick Dog Johnson]

no they wont, shit we offered them pick 17 for Damon White and they didn't take that
But like I said, you hold the trump card.

That time they held the trump card.

You can bend them over.

[claf-43]

no they wont, shit we offered them pick 17 for Damon White and they didn't take that
Im filthy we didnt....

I rate Damon, just would like to see him be consistent. Maybe a change of clubs would be great for him.

[claf-43]

But like I said, you hold the trump card.

That time they held the trump card.

You can bend them over.
When do clubs get rid of future KPP such as Westhoff?

Be realistic here.

Home comers, Duds, has beens or trouble makers go in trades....

[Slick Dog Johnson]

When do clubs get rid of future KPP such as Westhoff?

Be realistic here.

Home comers, Duds, has beens or trouble makers go in trades....
Oh well, I guess you'll have to see an Ebert running around in the tri colours next year. :)

[big schnitzel]

We missed our chance - we took Gill which could still end up paying off - and we'll live with that. Reality is, Port gave him the opportunity that no one else would and you would expect him to repay their faith but staying with them, probably for the long term.

[claf-43]

Oh well, I guess you'll have to see an Ebert running around in the tri colours next year. :)
What makes you think he will be their by pick 9 or whatever the Crows have?

He wont.

He'll end up in Melb, and thats Port's best chance of getting him in 2 years.

[Slick Dog Johnson]

What makes you think he will be their by pick 9 or whatever the Crows have?

He wont.

He'll end up in Melb, and thats Port's best chance of getting him in 2 years.
Pretty obvious the crows will ugprade their pick.

[claf-43]

Pretty obvious the crows will ugprade their pick.
Hows it obvious? He could easily go top 5.

To get top 5 your gonna have to trade something really really good who is in demand at another club.

A ruckmen to a desperate club would be the only possibility of that looking at the Adelaide list. But their ruckmen are either old (biglands) off a recent injury (hudson) or very inexperienced (the rest) so thats not alot to offer.

The sort of ruckmen that would be in demand are the type who have played a good 30-100 games or so. Like a Charman (who is signed I think now).

Obviously key forwards are lacking in Adelaide, and some midfield pace, Ebert doesnt fit in any of them 2 categories.

[SpringChoke]

There is one trump card the crows hold at the moment though. Brad Ebert.

If you guys could get pick 3, which would all but guarantee Port Brad Ebert, then I think they would give you Westhoff + something else (their first/second pick or a player).

Then use other trade players (McGregor, Jericho etc) to secure yourself a lateish first rounder

All we need to do is upgrade to pick 3, hmmm easier said than done. Knowing our luck, the Bulldogs will trade pick 5 for 10 and McGregor and Ebert will be drafted at pick 4.

[Slick Dog Johnson]

Hows it obvious? He could easily go top 5.

To get top 5 your gonna have to trade something really really good who is in demand at another club.

A ruckmen to a desperate club would be the only possibility of that looking at the Adelaide list. But their ruckmen are either old (biglands) off a recent injury (hudson) or very inexperienced (the rest) so thats not alot to offer.

The sort of ruckmen that would be in demand are the type who have played a good 30-100 games or so. Like a Charman (who is signed I think now).

Obviously key forwards are lacking in Adelaide, and some midfield pace, Ebert doesnt fit in any of them 2 categories.I know its only a mooting point, because hudson would be the last of the crows ruckman traded, but srsly m8, how the hell is hudson not going to be looked at because of injury. he played all but one game this year, and well, we all know what that was for.

the crows will get a top 5 pick (whether they on trade it is another issue altogethor). bookmark it.

[claf-43]

I know its only a mooting point, because hudson would be the last of the crows ruckman traded, but srsly m8, how the hell is hudson not going to be looked at because of injury. he played all but one game this year, and well, we all know what that was for.

the crows will get a top 5 pick (whether they on trade it is another issue altogethor). bookmark it.
I would think the following players are untouchable at Adelaide:

Of the youngish guys, Bock, Rutten, Hudson, Henschell,
Obviously the older mids arent worth mentioning... plus Basset, Burton etc....

Anyone else could be realistically tradeable.

But you dont trade key big men for the sake of it.

Hudson would be the perfect type of ruckmen that every club would look at, but I cant see how it could benefit getting rid of him, he is obviously the best ruckmen on the list.

[Capitalist]

I can't see them trading Hudson.

there was rumour he was looking at going home but surely he is worth more to the Crows than any other club in Vic ? maybe St Kilda or Collingwood....

as for Pick 5 it will be interesting to see how the AFC approach it.

going off media reports & speculation

Carlton are looking at Jericho - there is no way he is pick 5
Meesen is looking at heading home - once agian not worth pick 5
Mattner is out of favour - see above
McGregor wants to leave ?? - once again to way he is pick 5 material

The only way the crows will be getting pick 5 is McGreogor at pick 10 to the Bulldogs. Meesen won't get us pick 5 even packaged with a pick IMO.
Jericho and Mattner might get a 3rd rounder but whats the point.

[Slick Dog Johnson]

I can't see them trading Hudson.

there was rumour he was looking at going home but surely he is worth more to the Crows than any other club in Vic ? maybe St Kilda or Collingwood....

as for Pick 5 it will be interesting to see how the AFC approach it.

going off media reports & speculation

Carlton are looking at Jericho - there is no way he is pick 5
Meesen is looking at heading home - once agian not worth pick 5
Mattner is out of favour - see above
McGregor wants to leave ?? - once again to way he is pick 5 material

The only way the crows will be getting pick 5 is McGreogor at pick 10 to the Bulldogs. Meesen won't get us pick 5 even packaged with a pick IMO.
Jericho and Mattner might get a 3rd rounder but whats the point.
on face value, he wouldn't be worth pick 5, but with the complete lack of KPP depth in this draft, and the complete lack of KPP depth on the western bulldogs list, and their window closing quite fast (johnson, west, akermanis nearing retirement), anything could happen.

[Capitalist]

on face value, he wouldn't be worth pick 5, but with the complete lack of KPP depth in this draft, and the complete lack of KPP depth on the western bulldogs list, and their window closing quite fast (johnson, west, akermanis nearing retirement), anything could happen.

well - you make a good point.

[Crowked]

If we can get Brad Ebert through upgrading our draft pick, there is no way in hell i'd be trading him on for Westhoff. I reckon we have a better prospect than him already on our list in Sellar. He's got 2 seasons to catch up to the age Westhoff is now. He already has a bigger frame and I believe he has more natural talent. Dont waste our chance to secure a future superstar for what is in reality just a pretty good 2nd-3rd forward.

[claf-43]

If we can get Brad Ebert through upgrading our draft pick, there is no way in hell i'd be trading him on for Westhoff. I reckon we have a better prospect than him already on our list in Sellar. He's got 2 seasons to catch up to the age Westhoff is now. He already has a bigger frame and I believe more natural talent. Dont waste our chance to secure a future superstar for what is in reality just a pretty good 2nd-3rd forward.
Just remember, yes Sellar could be a champion, but no one knows that....

Dont go thinking hes the next Modra/Carey before he played a game. Your already putting to much pressure on him and setting him up for failure.

The same was said about Jericho and Watts, among others....

[out of order]

he and his family are mad crows supporters i would make it a priority for when he comes out of contract next yr. I hope it would be a pav situation, be in contact with his manager every week.

[Crowked]

Just remember, yes Sellar could be a champion, but no one knows that....

Dont go thinking hes the next Modra/Carey before he played a game. Your already putting to much pressure on him and setting him up for failure.

The same was said about Jericho and Watts, among others....

Yeh, he could be a champion. IMO Westhoff wont be. Thats the difference IMO. Westhoff has proven to be a good foil for the main focus players in your forward line, like Tredrea, Ebert and Motlop. I dont see him ever being the #1 go to man. I can see much more potential in Sellar becoming the star forward.

My main point though was always to express my thought that we shouldnt give away a chance to get Brad Ebert (another player with much more potential) to get Westhoff.

FWIW, I never rated Jericho or Watts as having the potential of Sellar. I didnt think anyone did. Jeicho was always rated an athlete with some potential to learn some football nouse. Watts was always rated a late first rounder with very limited agility. Sellar until his illness prior to the U18 champs was rated a top 5 pick in a very deap draft, some said he could have been #1. He was also a bottom age player in that draft. Your comparing an apple with a couple of grapes IMO. And as Cornesy always says, presure builds diamonds, we shouldnt be protecting him from the presure, or he will never become what he could.

[SpringChoke]

Yeh, he could be a champion. IMO Westhoff wont be. Thats the difference IMO. Westhoff has proven to be a good foil for the main focus players in your forward line, like Tredrea, Ebert and Motlop. I dont see him ever being the #1 go to man. I can see much more potential in Sellar becoming the star forward.



I'm amazed how little Westhoff is rated by some on this board. I can't remember the last key forward that has had a bigger impact in his first year than Westhoff has had. In fact, I would like to see the stats of Tredrea, Brown, Riewoldt etc as I'm sure they didn't have as bigger an impact in their first year as Westhoff.

As for Sellar, I have seen him a few times this year. I only hope he was still carrying an injury as he was very disappointing.

[Minotaur]

Yeh, he could be a champion. IMO Westhoff wont be. Thats the difference IMO. Westhoff has proven to be a good foil for the main focus players in your forward line, like Tredrea, Ebert and Motlop. I dont see him ever being the #1 go to man. I can see much more potential in Sellar becoming the star forward.

My main point though was always to express my thought that we shouldnt give away a chance to get Brad Ebert (another player with much more potential) to get Westhoff.

FWIW, I never rated Jericho or Watts as having the potential of Sellar. I didnt think anyone did. Jeicho was always rated an athlete with some potential to learn some football nouse. Watts was always rated a late first rounder with very limited agility. Sellar until his illness prior to the U18 champs was rated a top 5 pick in a very deap draft, some said he could have been #1. He was also a bottom age player in that draft. Your comparing an apple with a couple of grapes IMO. And as Cornesy always says, presure builds diamonds, we shouldnt be protecting him from the presure, or he will never become what he could.

Westhoff has produced something pretty special this year. Of course there are doubts as to whether he will be able to maintain that.

Sellar has produced nothing this year at AFL level and very little at SANFL level. He might be the greatest player the game has ever seen.

.......

If if and buts were cherries and nuts, we'd all be having a merry Christmas.

[wharfie_1870]

True. But then you could ask the same question to 14 other clubs.Leigh Matthews made the comment in the post game review last Friday night that he was going to question his recruiting people at Brisbane on how they missed the Hoff.

Adelaide can target Westhoff all the like but to miss quote Darryl Kerrigan,

"Tell them they're dreaming" :p

[claf-43]

Yeh, he could be a champion. IMO Westhoff wont be. Thats the difference IMO. Westhoff has proven to be a good foil for the main focus players in your forward line, like Tredrea, Ebert and Motlop. I dont see him ever being the #1 go to man. I can see much more potential in Sellar becoming the star forward.

My main point though was always to express my thought that we shouldnt give away a chance to get Brad Ebert (another player with much more potential) to get Westhoff.

FWIW, I never rated Jericho or Watts as having the potential of Sellar. I didnt think anyone did. Jeicho was always rated an athlete with some potential to learn some football nouse. Watts was always rated a late first rounder with very limited agility. Sellar until his illness prior to the U18 champs was rated a top 5 pick in a very deap draft, some said he could have been #1. He was also a bottom age player in that draft. Your comparing an apple with a couple of grapes IMO. And as Cornesy always says, presure builds diamonds, we shouldnt be protecting him from the presure, or he will never become what he could.

How many games has he played? none
When/if he gets a game and a regular spot then we can compare the two.
Injury prone at 18 isnt a good start though....

If every other club passed on him their had to a reason, and injurys at that age cast alot of doubts.

Stop touting SANFL players as out and out champions, esp if they are playing in the reserves, give them a chance ok. Angwin was supposed to be a superstar, look what he turned out to be...

[Capitalist]

How many games has he played? none
When/if he gets a game and a regular spot then we can compare the two.
Injury prone at 18 isnt a good start though....

If every other club passed on him their had to a reason, and injurys at that age cast alot of doubts.

Stop touting SANFL players as out and out champions, esp if they are playing in the reserves, give them a chance ok. Angwin was supposed to be a superstar, look what he turned out to be...

one day that is going to be a name people get banned for mentioning.:D

[Capitalist]

I'm amazed how little Westhoff is rated by some on this board. I can't remember the last key forward that has had a bigger impact in his first year than Westhoff has had. In fact, I would like to see the stats of Tredrea, Brown, Riewoldt etc as I'm sure they didn't have as bigger an impact in their first year as Westhoff.

As for Sellar, I have seen him a few times this year. I only hope he was still carrying an injury as he was very disappointing.

no-one is questioning the impact he has had. But he has been lucky that teams have looked at Tredrea,Ebert, Motlop and then him when it comes to match-ups.

But still he has done well this year and no-one can take that from him.

[claf-43]

one day that is going to be a name people get banned for mentioning.:D
Now now!

(not directed at you)
To not rate Westhoff at all just shows the Port/Crows rivalry immaturity.

If you dont rate him, give a valid reason, then get prepared to get shotdown for it :)

But to say a SANFL reserves player who is injured every other week is better is just rediculous.

[claf-43]

no-one is questioning the impact he has had. But he has been lucky that teams have looked at Tredrea,Ebert, Motlop and then him when it comes to match-ups.

But still he has done well this year and no-one can take that from him.

Not exactly correct... he did get Glass and Scarlett and kicked goals on them this year among others... Tredrea was getting Egan for example.

He seems to be taking the number 1 man, and until Tredrea is fit that will probably remain the case.

[Capitalist]

Now now!

To not rate Westhoff at all just shows the Port/Crows rivalry immaturity.

If you dont rate him, give a valid reason, then get prepared to get shotdown for it :)

But to say a SANFL reserves player who is injured every other week is better is just rediculous.


I never said I didn't rate him, I just don't go with the theory we should recruit him, I'm not yet convinced that he could go close to holding down the No.1 spot for the crows and probably not even the Power.

[Crowked]

Sellar could play no AFL games for another 2 years and still have acheived the same as Weshoff at the same age. I have said all along he is only potential at the moment, but he has more than Westhoff ever did. So, by rights, if he fullfills his potential he will pass Westhoff pretty quickly. I do understand he hasnt done anything yet though.

I dont think I under rate Westhoff at all. I think he has been a very slow developer who 3 years after becoming eligable for AFL has finally shown something. He is still very skinny at 21, and doent look to have the frame to get much bigger, Sellar is already more physically developed. I think Westhoff will be very good but never a star thats all.

[Crow Chick]

I'm amazed how little Westhoff is rated by some on this board. I can't remember the last key forward that has had a bigger impact in his first year than Westhoff has had. In fact, I would like to see the stats of Tredrea, Brown, Riewoldt etc as I'm sure they didn't have as bigger an impact in their first year as Westhoff.

As for Sellar, I have seen him a few times this year. I only hope he was still carrying an injury as he was very disappointing.

As has been said before, he has had a fantastic 1st season! But he is 2 years older than most of the other draftees. It's like saying Gill has had a fantastic year for a first year player! Age has a lot to do with player development.

[Truck Rutten]

It's not surprising at all, he was always going to have an impact. Can't believe anyone thinks any differently to this.
Yes that's why every one of the 16 recruiting teams passed on him 4 times ;)

[Slick Dog Johnson]

well - you make a good point.
put it this way.

6 club boards on bigfooty have a thread about trading for ken mcgregor.

[AndrewJo]

Why don't we just recruit one of his brothers?
Because brothers do not necessarily have the same ability. Some do.Some don't.

[dyertribe]

Sellar until his illness prior to the U18 champs was rated a top 5 pick in a very deap draft, some said he could have been #1. He was also a bottom age player in that draft.

That wasn't the only reason he slipped though.

There were/are massive question marks over his natural position, given he played and dominated his junior footy as a ruckman, but as he approaches the big league he's currently stranded on 195cm - which is why there's been the late conversion into a KPF and other clubs' recruiters held off.

[bus24]

That wasn't the only reason he slipped though.

There were/are massive question marks over his natural position, given he played and dominated his junior footy as a ruckman, but as he approaches the big league he's currently stranded on 195cm - which is why there's been the late conversion into a KPF and other clubs' recruiters held off.

Can't say I'm in the know ........... BUT

Personally I feel that as well as his illness, he had quite a few "personal" issues to sort through as well. Still, when you've just lost 8kg and you still average 17 possesions throughout the carnival, it's not a bad effort.

Was also a query on his intensity, which he has improved on throughout the season. But I can see this could have put the recruiters off. It was poor early in the year, much better lately.


He's no lumbering ruckman. Injury free, he has excellent mobility, outstanding vertical leap & great evasive skills.

He could play as a ruckman, despite being a tad on the short side for that role, because of his atleticism. I still see him as a CHF, who could play both ruck and CHB.

Here's a quote from CW's draft profile:

Run to link, moving with arms stiff and hanging down, seemingly moving in slow motion until you notice the opponent struggling to keep up.

Which is something you notice instantly. ALWAYS beats his opponents on the lead, despite looking like he is lumbering. Deceptively quick.

[Port_shadow11]

Are new draftees contracted for at least two seasons? I rate the guy but there's no way known Port will let him go.

yes new draftees do have a 2 year contract .. and with in the last 2 weeks we (Port) have given Hoff a contract extension ..

channel 10 is playing with you crow supporters

[*PAF]

I do not think Westhoff is your man. You'd have to mortgage more than the shed to get him and then instead of going forward you would probably go backwards.

IMO the Crows and Craig need to change their attitude towards trading in a big way. Make that a big big way, a 180 degrees change.
Trading is not to get a star, it doesn't work, the cost of that is way too much and if it doesn't work is worse again. See Freo, St Kilda and also the Carey trade.
Also trade week is not to offload your garbage, threads like trade bait really display the wrong attitude as bait is something little that you use to trick a big fish onto your dinner plate.
Trade is good for a couple of things, one is to top up your needs in terms of depth and also to trade like for like BUT trade what you have an excess off for something you do not have enough of. This IMO is where Craig's quotes are way off the mark IMO. He keeps talking about trading like for like not appealing to him, but what about say Porplyzia for a quick opportunist forward of similar standards, or Massie/Mattner for someone of similar standards but in a different position, or an older player for a younger one to keep your list even wrt age groups, etc etc.
Looking for one off solutions IMO is flawed and dangerous.

[Capitalist]

I do not think Westhoff is your man. You'd have to mortgage more than the shed to get him and then instead of going forward you would probably go backwards.

IMO the Crows and Craig need to change their attitude towards trading in a big way. Make that a big big way, a 180 degrees change.
Trading is not to get a star, it doesn't work, the cost of that is way too much and if it doesn't work is worse again. See Freo, St Kilda and also the Carey trade.
Also trade week is not to offload your garbage, threads like trade bait really display the wrong attitude as bait is something little that you use to trick a big fish onto your dinner plate.
Trade is good for a couple of things, one is to top up your needs in terms of depth and also to trade like for like BUT trade what you have an excess off for something you do not have enough of. This IMO is where Craig's quotes are way off the mark IMO. He keeps talking about trading like for like not appealing to him, but what about say Porplyzia for a quick opportunist forward of similar standards, or Massie/Mattner for someone of similar standards but in a different position, or an older player for a younger one to keep your list even wrt age groups, etc etc.
Looking for one off solutions IMO is flawed and dangerous.

well i think NC has his hands tied this trade week with 3 potential trades.

maybe the trading bug will bite:D

[SpringChoke]

well i think NC has his hands tied this trade week with 3 potential trades.

maybe the trading bug will bite:D

If you belive all the rumours it could be 5:

Thomson.
Kenny.
Jericho.
Mattner.
Meesen.

[Crow-mo]

no offence springy

but worst thread - ever :p


lol. spot on.

[Crow-mo]

He's undoubtedly had a great year this year, but I still have reservations about what he will turn out to be in the longer term. As has happened many times before, they try to put a big frame on these guys and they start to get injured a lot, lose their agility and their vertical leap.

He will cop a lot more attention in the future, but time will tell. I hope for the kid's sake that he turns out to be what is now expected of him, but I don't see him being a star forward. That's my opinion anyway....:)

I tend to agree. he's had a great first year, but I don't see him as a no.1 type forward.

he has great hands, and is a lovely kick but how he develops with greater scrutiny and positional burdens is yet to be seen. doesn't involve himself enough in the game, and could work much harder defensively imo.

but would still love him as a 3rd target man.

[Crow-mo]

I can't remember the last key forward that has had a bigger impact in his first year than Westhoff has had.

I can't remember when westhoff became a key forward :p

[*PAF]

... doesn't involve himself enough in the game, and could work much harder defensively imo.
...
Some people on the Port board have quoted similar, well IMO you are all wrong. :) Not a forward amongst any of you.

Really he is a forward and by the sounds of it a lot of posters are backmen or midfielder types in their previous existence.
Forwards are there to score goals and assist others in scoring goals be it first hand assistance such as a pass or by running off the ball to create space etc, in other words kick goals and use your brains.
No matter what sport one looks at, that is a forward's role. That is also the reason really hard workers such as White and Perrie get questioned.
He is top shelf in both of these areas and whilst he may plateau like most youngsters do for a year or two, long term he will be special and we were fortunate to draft him.

He involves himself just the right amount of times and as SC has said look at his stats and game Vs your Browns, Tredreas, Halls, Gehrigs :) etc not only in their first year but first two years.
The reason for the first two years is to stop people going on about them being 18 at the time and Westhoff 20, but keep in mind that by that stage they had been in the system 2 or even 3 years in some cases Vs Westhoff's less than one.

[out of order]

I tend to agree. he's had a great first year, but I don't see him as a no.1 type forward.

he has great hands, and is a lovely kick but how he develops with greater scrutiny and positional burdens is yet to be seen. doesn't involve himself enough in the game, and could work much harder defensively imo.

but would still love him as a 3rd target man.

he's been playing more than a '3rd target man' hes been playing FF.

[eathb]

http://www.thepowerfromport.com.au/images/uploads/2539.1189225241.jpg

"U want me don't u Crows fans?"

[mymansyd]

Sorry to poop on the Justin Westhoff lovefest, but as impressive as his first 14 games have been, I'd me more inclined to judge him after another season, or at least another half-season.

Things have gone pretty well for Port this year, their forward line has functioned well and they have kicked big scores, which can sometimes make tall forwards look better than they actually are. Also, you don't know how much his good showing has also had to do with the opposition underestimating him (especially early). After-all, he was pick 71.

Mind you, if he boots 4 or 5 in the GF, I'd be willing to concede that he might be OK. :o

[dyertribe]

Things have gone pretty well for Port this year, their forward line has functioned well and they have kicked big scores, which can sometimes make tall forwards look better than they actually are. Also, you don't know how much his good showing has also had to do with the opposition underestimating him (especially early). After-all, he was pick 71.

That's the thing though.

He's been playing FF while Tredders has been slowly making his way back - it's not as if Warren has been shouldering the load as his usual self while Westhoff cherry picks the third or fourth defender (a la Thurstans in 2004).

Against Geelong at Kardinia he had Scarlett go to him, and in the last two games against West Coast he had Glass take him for significant periods.

[Toots Hibbert]

Not wishing to blow up Westhoffs tyres too much at this stage. Like a few people have said he needs to follow up with a good season next year before we can be more certain of him.

That said he's Port's best young big forward prospect by a country mile. He just wouldn't be up for trade. Not even for an Ebert. Port are about success and they will not give up a player who fills a need which we are barely covering at present just for the feel good factor. By all accounts Brad Ebert can play but he's not a type we're short of.

To those suggesting Westhoff's not a key forward he's played at full forward from his first game on. He's been matched up by the oppositions best defender on a number of occasions and done very well for a guy in his first season at this level.

[Kane McGoodwin]

Forget Didak, Davey, Ottens etc, last nights CH10 news also mentioned we might target Westhoff. Now that would be a good get. With Ports unbelievable array of GENUINE talent, surely we can offer Westhoff more than they can. If we can't, then we really need to look at what we are paying our multitiude of "solids". After gifting them S Burgoyne, Pearce and K Cornes, it would be nice to get one back.

Do we have the b#lls to offer Westhoff a deal he can't refuse?
Contracted to Port.

Thread over.

We need small forwards more than tall ones.

[- PC -]

Really he is a forward and by the sounds of it a lot of posters are backmen or midfielder types in their previous existence.


Got me there

They called me a bulldog. Even followed my opponent to his interchange seat :o

[SpringChoke]

Contracted to Port.

Thread over.

We need small forwards more than tall ones.

You're kidding me aren't you Kane. We have needed QUALITY tall forwards for near on a decade. Every draft since the late nienties, a QUALITY tall forward has been a priority.

[Kane McGoodwin]

You're kidding me aren't you Kane. We have needed QUALITY tall forwards for near on a decade. Every draft since the late nienties, a QUALITY tall forward has been a priority.

No.

Next year we have Hentschel & Gill as starting KPP forwards. I expect we will blood Tippett & Sellar, with Griffin & Biglands to plays roles too. We don't have a shortage of KPP tall forwards on our list.

... yet we have buggar all small forwards who kick regular goals.

[Port_shadow11]

Contracted to Port.

Thread over.



I agree .. as it always been stated he is contracted to Port (and even got an extension to his contract)

so Thread over

[dyertribe]

'Contracted' means nothing. It just means Hoff can't walk for free - and Chocolate can't sack him without the kid getting paid out.

If Craig came a-knocking with say, a first rounder, Ivan Maric and Graham Johncock you'd think it would be strongly considered - and in that case the contract wouldn't be worth the papyrus it was transcribed upon.

[Capitalist]

You're kidding me aren't you Kane. We have needed QUALITY tall forwards for near on a decade. Every draft since the late nienties, a QUALITY tall forward has been a priority.

Spriny I think your the only guy on the board who would want us to trade for him with a first rounder for Westhoff - it aint going to happen and there is no way in hell Triggy would keep his job if he allowed that to occur.

you want Quality - go and get it. But get over your crush on young hoff, your nearly as bad as Stiffy 18 with Pav :D

[SpringChoke]

Spriny I think your the only guy on the board who would want us to trade for him with a first rounder for Westhoff - it aint going to happen and there is no way in hell Triggy would keep his job if he allowed that to occur.

you want Quality - go and get it. But get over your crush on young hoff, your nearly as bad as Stiffy 18 with Pav :D

I know its never going to happen. It would be more a "lets bump up his price and push Port Power over the salary cap" type move. I realise we have sweet FA chance but let's see abit of ruthlessness from the AFC for once. You know like "Excuse me Mr Demtriou, Bryce Gibbs is 8 games short" type of ruthlessness.

[*PAF]

Spriny I think your the only guy on the board who would want us to trade for him with a first rounder for Westhoff - it aint going to happen and there is no way in hell Triggy would keep his job if he allowed that to occur.

you want Quality - go and get it. But get over your crush on young hoff, your nearly as bad as Stiffy 18 with Pav :D

Are you saying Westhoff is not worth a first rounder?
If that is the case surely you are kidding right?

[Capitalist]

Are you saying Westhoff is not worth a first rounder?
If that is the case surely you are kidding right?

yep thats what i'm saying.

i'm not saying he isn't a good player, i'm not saying he hasn't had a good year. But he is not worth the Crows 1st rounder this year.

[Capitalist]

I know its never going to happen. It would be more a "lets bump up his price and push Port Power over the salary cap" type move. I realise we have sweet FA chance but let's see abit of ruthlessness from the AFC for once. You know like "Excuse me Mr Demtriou, Bryce Gibbs is 8 games short" type of ruthlessness.

thats true, i wish we would get a bit of mongrel in us, start really throwing our weight around.
I would like other clubs to hates us for other reasons than just being from SA :D

[Macca19]

Im pretty sure hes already re-signed so any 'lets bump up his price' will have to wait a while.

I think its definately correct that Westhoff isnt the type of player to base your forward line around. He definately is not a Tredrea/Hall/Pav/Brown type player. Hes a full forward, and a smart one at that. He demands respect from the opposition, and as he has shown many times this year...if the opposition give him space he will carve them up.

4x4 goals and 3x3 is a great effort for a kid in his first year in the big league. Yes hes older than your normal draftee but 20 is still very young in football terms. A lot of talls have taken a lot longer than 20 years of age to make an impact.

[Capitalist]

Im pretty sure hes already re-signed so any 'lets bump up his price' will have to wait a while.

I think its definately correct that Westhoff isnt the type of player to base your forward line around. He definately is not a Tredrea/Hall/Pav/Brown type player. Hes a full forward, and a smart one at that. He demands respect from the opposition, and as he has shown many times this year...if the opposition give him space he will carve them up.

4x4 goals and 3x3 is a great effort for a kid in his first year in the big league. Yes hes older than your normal draftee but 20 is still very young in football terms. A lot of talls have taken a lot longer than 20 years of age to make an impact.

geeze macca - i could really get to like you :D

The Crows are looking for a Dominant Forward player, Westhoff would be a great compliment to that (like he is with Port).

Not sure where you find dominant fowards other than to develop them yourself - but time will tell i suppose.

[*PAF]

yep thats what i'm saying.

i'm not saying he isn't a good player, i'm not saying he hasn't had a good year. But he is not worth the Crows 1st rounder this year.
Some of you lot on here have very funny ideas on who is worth what.

Lets get some perspective on Westhoff's worth. Lets compare his season this year to the player that is currently the hottest prospect in the AFL. Buddy Franklin is about the same age but has been in the system for 3 years and has played over 50 games.
Franklin is easily worth two first round picks, if not two first rounders plus a good player.


Lance Franklin DOB: 30 January 1987 Height: 196cm, Weight: 99kg,
Justin Westhoff. DOB: October 1, 1986. Height: 199cm. Weight: 89kg.

Lance Franklin 3 years in the system hence heavier and stronger.
Justin Westhoff in his first year.

Lance Franklin 56 games played in total. (is now past that oh so important 50 game mark)
Justin Westhoff 14 games in total. (two years to go before he gets to that 50 game mark)

Now averages for 2007:

Lance Franklin 22 games. 9.1 kicks, 5.6 marks, 4.2 HB, 3.3 Goals, 2.2T
Justin Westhoff 14 games. 6.9 Kicks, 4.9 Marks, 2.2 HB, 2.4 Goals, 2.6T


Franklin has scored a goal in every game played this year, Westhoff went scoreless only once.


Franklin is a CHF that usually but not always gets the best defender, Westhoff is a FF that has been getting the best defenders since about his third or fourth game.

Franklin has scored 5 or more goals 6 times, Westhoff not once. Note that it took Franklin 24 games before he bagged his first 5 or more.

So in most areas Franklin >> Westhoff, but there is one area that IMO Westhoff >> Franklin and that is his ability to work for other players.
His work off the ball has been a big big bonus for Ebert, Motlop and others since he is one of the smartest forwards around wrt teamwork. There are no stats for this, just very happy coaches and supporters.


Easily worth a first rounder and if he was a Crow you'd be saying more than that, considering what people on here expect to get for the players mentioned on your trade threads.

[GlaCial]

What a joke. Firstly, why would Port let Westhoff go?

Secondly, at present Adelaide and Port have completely different game plans, and I'm not convinced Westhoff would work at Adelaide as well as he has at Port. Port deliver the ball into the forward line with speed more often than Adelaide, and that suits Westhoff who is a basketballer who knows how to protect the drop zone.

Finally, there is no comparison with Westhoff and Franklin. A Franklin-type player is what Adelaide needs, not Westhoff.

[Truck Rutten]

Some of you lot on here have very funny ideas on who is worth what.

Lets get some perspective on Westhoff's worth. Lets compare his season this year to the player that is currently the hottest prospect in the AFL. Buddy Franklin is about the same age but has been in the system for 3 years and has played over 50 games.
Franklin is easily worth two first round picks, if not two first rounders plus a good player.


Lance Franklin DOB: 30 January 1987 Height: 196cm, Weight: 99kg,
Justin Westhoff. DOB: October 1, 1986. Height: 199cm. Weight: 89kg.

Lance Franklin 3 years in the system hence heavier and stronger.
Justin Westhoff in his first year.

Lance Franklin 56 games played in total. (is now past that oh so important 50 game mark)
Justin Westhoff 14 games in total. (two years to go before he gets to that 50 game mark)

Now averages for 2007:

Lance Franklin 22 games. 9.1 kicks, 5.6 marks, 4.2 HB, 3.3 Goals, 2.2T
Justin Westhoff 14 games. 6.9 Kicks, 4.9 Marks, 2.2 HB, 2.4 Goals, 2.6T


Franklin has scored a goal in every game played this year, Westhoff went scoreless only once.


Franklin is a CHF that usually but not always gets the best defender, Westhoff is a FF that has been getting the best defenders since about his third or fourth game.

Franklin has scored 5 or more goals 6 times, Westhoff not once. Note that it took Franklin 24 games before he bagged his first 5 or more.

So in most areas Franklin >> Westhoff, but there is one area that IMO Westhoff >> Franklin and that is his ability to work for other players.
His work off the ball has been a big big bonus for Ebert, Motlop and others since he is one of the smartest forwards around wrt teamwork. There are no stats for this, just very happy coaches and supporters.


Easily worth a first rounder and if he was a Crow you'd be saying more than that, considering what people on here expect to get for the players mentioned on your trade threads.
Let's wait until he strings a couple of decent seasons together before we get too excited. I wouldn't be happy if the AFC gave up a first rounder for him at this stage. Even with this years supposedly weak draft.

[*PAF]

Let's wait until he strings a couple of decent seasons together before we get too excited. I wouldn't be happy if the AFC gave up a first rounder for him at this stage. Even with this years supposedly weak draft.
I wouldn't be happy if we traded him full stop and IMO he is not the sort of player you should be looking for in a trade, but that is not the point.

[Truck Rutten]

I wouldn't be happy if we traded him full stop and IMO he is not the sort of player you should be looking for in a trade, but that is not the point.
Definitely. Port wouldn't want to lose him. Not sure why this thread was started.

[*PAF]

Definitely. Port wouldn't want to lose him. ...
Specially not Westhoff plus our first rounder for McGregor. ;)

[Crow-mo]

Are you saying Westhoff is not worth a first rounder?
If that is the case surely you are kidding right?

Right now, westhoff would command a first round pick.

given his ceiling is still essentially conjecture, he couldn't be worth less. right now.

[*PAF]

Right now, westhoff would command a first round pick.

given his ceiling is still essentially conjecture, he couldn't be worth less. right now.
As we have been talking about right now, 100% agree. :thumbsu:

As far as the future goes who knows, but from a Port perspective cannot wait to see how his career pans out.

The last quality really tall forward was Salmon. If he ends up half as good it will be great, if he ends up better than half as good as the Fish it will be the proverbial pants down and laps around the table time.

[Geoffa32]

Its all upside for the Hoff and Port....To suggest he could come to Adelaide is absurd....Port gave him his opportunity....Why would he leave....At msot AFC would just give his manager the call, The response surely would be a polite..."**** off"

[Capitalist]

Some of you lot on here have very funny ideas on who is worth what.



no offence - but i'm going to disagree with your opinion - show all the stats you want especially Franklin v Westoff.

and your right some people have funny ideas about the value of players.

[Crow-mo]

no offence - but i'm going to disagree with your opinion - show all the stats you want especially Franklin v Westoff.


only a madman would 'genuinely' believe franklin & westhoff are comparable.

[Capitalist]

only a madman would 'genuinely' believe franklin & westhoff are comparable.

agreed.

[*PAF]

only a madman would 'genuinely' believe franklin & westhoff are comparable.
Only someone who had a few drinks would read it as if I was comparing them rather than just using Franklin as the yardstick. ;)
In two years time, once he has 50 games under his belt, we will see if he comes up to Franklin or not, at the moment we can only use one as a yardstick not comparison.

Anyway enough from me. He plays for the enemy so he must be shit no matter what the stats say. :p

[spice18]

Yuoz just love talking about The Hoff. Enjoy it. That's where it will all start and end.