Warplanes

[Tony_Clifton]

Australia is in the process of getting their hands on these F-35 Joint Strike fighters.

http://www.airtoaircombat.com/images/F35_large.jpg

There has been talk that maybe we should have tried to get the bigger, better and more expensive F22 raptor.

http://www.geocities.com/goose_topgun99/f-22_new2.jpg

From what I have read the US are pretty stingy with exporting their military hardware to Australia. Even if we do get them we'll get scaled down versions with inferior software and such. A bit like getting the regular commodore instead of the HSV. I would have thought Australia would've deserved a little token of gratitude.

Meanwhile its been revealed in parlaiment that in the past the US wouldn't give us the radar software or something for the F 18's so we spied on them and cracked it ourselves.
http://www.jetplanes.co.uk/pictures/f18/canadaf18refuelling.jpg

We should get that guy who cracked the iphone to come work for us.

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/5288_DVD_Jon.jpg

[Jackey J]

I would have thought Australia would've deserved a little token of gratitude.


Getting current generation anything from the yanks is considered to be gratitude from them.

Besides we don't need top of the line, we only need good enough to deal with our areas of threat.

[freocuz]

Meanwhile its been revealed in parlaiment that in the past the US wouldn't give us the radar software or something for the F 18's so we spied on them and cracked it ourselves.



Should have just downloaded it from Kazaa like everyone else did.

[NiGHTFuRY]

If our airforce can outdo the MiGs then we'll be alright........

[GentlemanJeff]

This is a good thread on an important topic.

The US is developing two 5th generation combat aircraft: the JSF and the F22. The JSF is a multi-role aircraft that can perform both tactical bombing and air-to-air combat (hence the name joint strike fighter).In contrast, the F-22 is being developed exclusively as a stealth air dominance fighter. The F22 is available for use in the US right now, where as the JSF is still in the development phase (and wont be completed until around 2015).

It is very important for people (and politicians) to understand that the JSF and the F-22 are not meant to be alternatives to each other. Indeed, the US is planning on employing the JSF in tandem with the F-22 as a multirole fighter, similarly to the synergistic team of the F-15 and F-16 today.

The first problem we have is that the US is refusing to allow Australian access to the technological systems of the top of the range F-22. The second problem, is that running a mixed fleet of JSF and F-22 would be much more expensive than operating JSF’s alone - probably hundreds of millions per year in extra costs (I personally think the second “problem” is not a severe constraint on the budget).

Brendan Nelson has committed to the JSF project and seems to resigned to the fact that wont get the F22. However, the JSF is not a completed aircraft (it is still in development) so Nelson is planning to purchase the Super Hornet to cover the “capability gap” while we are waiting on the JSF development to be completed. Nelson is talking as though the JSF and the F22 are substitutes. However, the problem with this is that the JSF is not an alternative to the F-22. Neither the Super Hornet nor the JSF can perform the F-22's air-to-air combat mission - they are primarily air-to-ground attack aircraft with a secondary air-to-air combat capability.

The JSF would lose in an air-to-air fight against the F-22 every time. This is not because the JSF is a shit aircraft, it is just because the JSF is primarily a tactical bomber (with only a secondary of fighting capability). It would be like putting Peter Bell in an over-head marking contest with Matthew Pavlich (both are top shelf players, but they have different roles on the field).

The JSF is actually a good acquisition. The problem is that it should not be seen as a suitable aircraft for air-to-air combat. Australia need a suitable 5th generation stealth air dominance fighter – the F22 is the only aircraft (realistically) available for purchase by a country like Australia. The US is reluctant to share the F22 technology – but we need to push them harder. Japan is very close to getting the F22 because they have been very persistent with the US – the Japanese refuse to accept an inferior air-to-air combat fighter. We need to adopt a similar approach.

The peaceniks will no doubt ask: why do we need an air-to-to air combat fighter like the F22? The answer is that we need to maintain our technological superiority in the region. The JSF acquisition ensures that we will maintain superiority in the area of tactical bombing, but the JSF will not give us air-to-air superiority. The problem is that the Russian’s are developing a 5th generation fighter called the Sukhoi Su-50. They have agreed to sell this plane (on credit) to the Indonesians. The Sukhoi Su-50 will be developed primarily as an air-to-air combat fighter to compete with the F22. It is unlikely that the Sukhoi Su-50 could defeat the top shelf F-22 in air-to-air combat, but the Sukhoi Su-50 would quite easily defeat the JSF or the Super Hornet in a dog fight. If we try to use the JSF as an alternative to the F22 then we will cede air superiority to the Indonesians – this is unacceptable.

That is why we need a dual JSF / F22 capability.

[prattsta]

The F35 was featured in Die Hard 4.0 and that makes it infinitely cooler than the F22 featured in Transformers ;)

The simple fact is the US wants to have air superiority (dominance) and with the F22 they do. Of all the fighter planes either in planning, production or service the F22 is the best. The US government/military doesn't want to lose this advantage and why would they. Currently US federal law prohibits the sale of the F22 to foreign governments, which is another reason why we can only get our hands on a poxy watered down version.

[Jackey J]

That is why we need a dual JSF / F22 capability.

I cant see Australia being able to afford dual fleets of State of the Art Aircraft. Hard enough keeping the current ancient fleets going.

As a small population we will always have to compromise our defence capability in most areas. Air Defence is a major gap that our land mass wont let us overcome easily.

Perhaps having a US Airbase up in the NT is the best way to go from a Defence perspective.