Its On Again..........

[docker_azza]

Heard that the AFL are again considering a NAB Cup Derby after Fremantle complained to the AFL about playing in Darwin.

[DCFCFAN84]

Heard that the AFL are again considering a NAB Cup Derby after Fremantle complained to the AFL about playing in Darwin.

LOL I wouldn't want to go to Darwin either.

[Bluto]

LOL I wouldn't want to go to Darwin either.

It is a disgrace that the two teams that travel the most during the season are forced to do these long trips during the preseason. And Darwin in Feb!? No thankyou.

The Eagles have had to travel to Alice Springs two years in a row for crying out loud (i think).

Neither the Dockers nor the Eagles should have to board a plane more than once before Round 1.

[ImperialPurple]

Freo were supposed to be playing in Darwin, but apparently the club complained that it would be too physically draining just a week or so after playing an exhibition match in Capetown to then have to head to Darwin. So the AFL said, well even though you and the weags both said you don't want a pre-season derby, if you don't want to go to Darwin, then you have to have a derby.

Gee thanks. :rolleyes:

[estibador]

So this is the thanks we get for helping the AFL out in growing the game in South Africa? We get back and get held out over a barrel - either a draining preseason derby or a draining trip to Darwin.

Top blokes down at the AFL. We scratch their back and they stab ours.

[pistol17]

Id take the derby then if Demetriou and Anderson are going to be a couple of w..kers. The derby will be physically draining but having lived in Darwin during February I would give Darwin a miss especially a week after going to South Africa.

I thought Darwin was Western Bulldogs country? They should be playing up there with Melbourne.

[Bluto]

Freo were supposed to be playing in Darwin, but apparently the club complained that it would be too physically draining just a week or so after playing an exhibition match in Capetown to then have to head to Darwin. So the AFL said, well even though you and the weags both said you don't want a pre-season derby, if you don't want to go to Darwin, then you have to have a derby.

Gee thanks. :rolleyes:

I can't believe the option of having two games in Perth isn't on the table. Send North and Dees over here and there would be 10x the crowd they would get at home.

[GentlemanJeff]

If the AFL is playing hard ball then guys like Rick Hart need to step up to the plate and show some courage.

If the AFL are giving us a "derby or darwin" ultimatum then we need to show some steel and threaten to boycot the fixture all together.

This would show the AFL how ruthless FFC can be.

It would also create an inevitable bagging in the press from the AFL and the opposition club which would in turn help to create a siege mentality among the playing group for the rest of the season.

[Dyslexic Emo]

Or we could pull something similar to what the eagles did when they forgot to bring their clash strip for a game against the bulldogs, except in this case we just 'forget' to bring our players

[Roundhouse]

If the AFL is playing hard ball then guys like Rick Hart need to step up to the plate and show some courage.

If the AFL are giving us a "derby or darwin" ultimatum then we need to show some steel and threaten to boycot the fixture all together.

This would show the AFL how ruthless FFC can be.

It would also create an inevitable bagging in the press from the AFL and the opposition club which would in turn help to create a siege mentality among the playing group for the rest of the season.

Yeah right, then the AFL will be scared of us and humbly bow to any of our future requests. :rolleyes:

Ferchrissakes the AFL is a billion dollar business. You're advocating tactics that the Bumgeelup U/11's would scoff at as unproffessional. It's just plain dumb.

Back on topic, a pre-season derby wouldn't be all that in comparison to playing in the Darwin heat on a hard surface. It will be less draining, and a good challenge against a midfield that is suited to Subi.

[GentlemanJeff]

Yeah right, then the AFL will be scared of us and humbly bow to any of our future requests. :rolleyes:

Ferchrissakes the AFL is a billion dollar business. You're advocating tactics that the Bumgeelup U/11's would scoff at as unproffessional. It's just plain dumb.

Bosh flimshaw!

You are just showing your lack of real world experience here.

The thing with the AFL (and any organization in general that has to balance conflicting parties) is that they will choose the path of least resistance. When the AFL decides on fixturing they inevitably will make some teams happy and make some teams annoyed. If FFC just stands in the background and does not make waves, the AFL will not thank us for it, the AFL will just fcuk us over.

We need to be as difficult as possible so that the AFL is on eggshells when ever they decide on fixturing. If we make enough threats then eventually the AFL will think: "Look, its all too hard to get FFC to agree to this Darwin adventure, so lets find another team (sucker) that has no balls - what about Richmond?".

[NiGHTFuRY]

FFS


Can we not have a pre season derby for once!!!!

[summerthebat]

I hope we just play the bottom of the barrel players, why would we ever give a shit about the NAB cup again when last time we lost Farmer and Johnson for 6 and 4 weeks?

**** that noise!

[GentlemanJeff]

FFS


Can we not have a pre season derby for once!!!!

The Western Derby is an important cultural event in Western Australia.

The uniqueness of the Western Derby clash is destroyed by playing a dead rubber pre-season match.

The AFL should stop being so culturally insensitive to the State of Western Australia.

[wehavethepassion]

I hope we just play the bottom of the barrel players, why would we ever give a shit about the NAB cup again when last time we lost Farmer and Johnson for 6 and 4 weeks?

**** that noise!

Yes we do No's 25 to 44 and add afew Colts players from SF & EF and the top 22 have "general soreness" from the South Africa trip.

[Bradesmaen]

They make preseason games between WCE/Freo and PA/Ade so that the melbourne teams make more prize money.

[wehavethepassion]

The NAB cup season is startin on the 15th of Feb which is what about 2-3 weeks early on top of that we have to go to S.Africa to play a practice match
a week earlier - all in the heat.

[ImperialPurple]

They make preseason games between WCE/Freo and PA/Ade so that the melbourne teams make more prize money.

The article I read said they were keen on a Western Derby as they had already agreed that there would be no pre-season Showdown. It also said it was largely about the $$$ as they could expect a crowd of close to 40,000 - more than they would get for any other first round NAB Cup game.

[freocynic]

I thought Darwin was Western Bulldogs country? They should be playing up there with Melbourne.

I am always a bit stumped as to why FFC lets the competing Victorian team get the home ground advantage??? Like the Hawks/Saints in Tassie, they do a lot of promotion, hold clinics, etc and try to win over the crowd so they barrack for them. Why don't we go up there and do some promotion of the game, and of ourselves, and win over the crowd a bit more to barrack for us? I know we don't really 'need' these supporters....but instead of being negative and making a silly stand and boycotting the game, we should try and cement a proportion of supporters to barrack for us.

Ultimately, it would be great if we could get like a 'Darwin Dockers Supporters Club' or a 'Tassie Dockers Supporters Club' going with some decent numbers.

[NiGHTFuRY]

well.. we can just play fringe and junior players for all but a few pre season games, seeing as we learnt a valuable leason last year about overzealous suspensions and other things.

[DCFCFAN84]

If the AFL is forcing us to do one or the other I would say fine the Derby but I would play every rookie we have and make sure our best players like Pavlich don't play.

[Chris who]

In early 1982 John todd's swan districts beat collingwood in the escort cup to set up a crucial match with richmond to get in the semi finals. The game was to be held in melbourne on a tuesday, after the swans had already played their regular wafl fixture. Todd said **** you to the then vfl and sent reserves and colts players, would have been a thrill, for them but the scoreline ended up 33 goals to 4.

My Thoughts are why can the eagles or dockers ever get a reasonable Nab cup fixture, we should put a united front up and boycott

[freocynic]

I don't understand a lot of the thinking here...I know its only the NAB cup but shouldn't we try and win every game we play???

[Roundhouse]

In early 1982 John todd's swan districts beat collingwood in the escort cup to set up a crucial match with richmond to get in the semi finals. The game was to be held in melbourne on a tuesday, after the swans had already played their regular wafl fixture. Todd said **** you to the then vfl and sent reserves and colts players, would have been a thrill, for them but the scoreline ended up 33 goals to 4.

My Thoughts are why can the eagles or dockers ever get a reasonable Nab cup fixture, we should put a united front up and boycott

There is a big difference between being made to play on a Tuesday after having played on the weekend, and being scheduled to play a fierce rival in the first game of the pre-season.

The "we are taking our bat and ball and going home" approach loses its effectiveness pretty quickly, and always has unwanted repercussions. Freo would be better of choosing our battles, and this one is hardly life or death.

Having said that, if the Weags wanna boycott then go ahead. You guys will just be saving yourselves another flogging anyway.

[NiGHTFuRY]

In early 1982 John todd's swan districts beat collingwood in the escort cup to set up a crucial match with richmond to get in the semi finals. The game was to be held in melbourne on a tuesday, after the swans had already played their regular wafl fixture. Todd said **** you to the then vfl and sent reserves and colts players, would have been a thrill, for them but the scoreline ended up 33 goals to 4.

My Thoughts are why can the eagles or dockers ever get a reasonable Nab cup fixture, we should put a united front up and boycott

There is a big difference between being made to play on a Tuesday after having played on the weekend, and being scheduled to play a fierce rival in the first game of the pre-season.

The "we are taking our bat and ball and going home" approach loses its effectiveness pretty quickly, and always has unwanted repercussions. Freo would be better of choosing our battles, and this one is hardly life or death.

Having said that, if the Weags wanna boycott then go ahead. You guys will just be saving yourselves another flogging anyway.

Yes it's not Life or Death, however you realise they are using us for money making. Whilst normally I will get into a slime fan Roundhouse in our sanctuary, and I get into trouble for it as well usually, I have to admit, maybe a united approach is needed for this preseason over use of our unique derby. The AFL know we front up any time and face each other down, will go hard at each other, bring the crowds and money (which they're after) to help fund their stupid pre season show. Why should we underwrite poor crowds over east for their mataches. We should really have a full and proper home & away season, but thats for another thread.
I too feel it takes away from the actual real Derbies to play too many of them in one year. We should really save it for H&A and finals if we're ever lucky and both good enough to play each other in one.
I'm not sure we could ever get a high level of cooperation with WCE, but if we both sent in juniors and fringe players then at least we'd be sending a message to Eyebrows not to overuse and abuse what is uniquely West Australian, or at least we do not appreciate the over fixturing of our clubs.
Heck - they want ra big match with crowds involving the Western Australian teams, fixture us against the Saints, or maybe West Coast against the Swans or something like that.
I know they have their rivalries over east and the south australians have a good one, but ours is by far the best iMHO. Let's preserve that by not fritting it away and devaluing it by these continual pre season matches. Let both clubs play someone else for once.....

How funny is that ...a Swan Districts seconds team flogging the Pies in Melbourne on a Tuesday back in the day.......

[PapaJ]

If they aren't already, they should send Carlton up there. Gees it's the AFLs stupid 'tank your way to the top' system that has gotten Carlton all these perks this draft/trade period, the least they can do is pay back the AFL and do the trip to Darwin or any other hell hole they want them to go.

[Dyslexic Emo]

What irks me is that Collingwood are always trumpeting the 'We get big crowd' around to gain favourable fixtures and what not, yet when we/slime have the same thing we get NO concesions what so ever. Purely on this alone unless we get some concessions ANYWHERE ie: not travelling to Tasmania (just plain wrong) Darwin, Gabba or Sydney (ok these I just threw in as we don't play well over there) but really then we shouldn't sit back and take it year after year.

[Roundhouse]

Yes it's not Life or Death, however you realise they are using us for money making. Whilst normally I will get into a slime fan Roundhouse in our sanctuary, and I get into trouble for it as well usually, I have to admit, maybe a united approach is needed for this preseason over use of our unique derby. The AFL know we front up any time and face each other down, will go hard at each other, bring the crowds and money (which they're after) to help fund their stupid pre season show. Why should we underwrite poor crowds over east for their mataches. We should really have a full and proper home & away season, but thats for another thread.
I too feel it takes away from the actual real Derbies to play too many of them in one year. We should really save it for H&A and finals if we're ever lucky and both good enough to play each other in one.
I'm not sure we could ever get a high level of cooperation with WCE, but if we both sent in juniors and fringe players then at least we'd be sending a message to Eyebrows not to overuse and abuse what is uniquely West Australian, or at least we do not appreciate the over fixturing of our clubs.
Heck - they want ra big match with crowds involving the Western Australian teams, fixture us against the Saints, or maybe West Coast against the Swans or something like that.
I know they have their rivalries over east and the south australians have a good one, but ours is by far the best iMHO. Let's preserve that by not fritting it away and devaluing it by these continual pre season matches. Let both clubs play someone else for once.....

How funny is that ...a Swan Districts seconds team flogging the Pies in Melbourne on a Tuesday back in the day.......

Sending our fringe players/rookies is not an option I am arguing against.
Whether we send our best team or not is besides the point. People will still turn up in droves and the same fixturing will take place again next year anyway. We are under no pressure from the AFL to send our best team on the park, it's just a matter of what the club decides is best for it's preparation

I'm just saying it would be counterproductive to boycott the fixture completely, which some have suggested.

[freocynic]

Football is not life and Death...its much more important than that! - Bill Shankley (Liverpool Manager)

I for one like the pre season derby. We have won the last few, the game is no way near the intensity of a 'real' derby, so it is not that draining, and I don't see how playing the e-girls in the NAB cup lessens any of the regular season derby's importance at all. Think about this years 2 regular season derbies. Were the crowds down? Were the games less intense? Both teams are still trying things in the NAB cup after all. If the regular season draw was even, ie we all played everyone home and away twice, it may be a different story. But its not and probably never will be, so the AFL have an obligation to schedule the most lucrative matches. The AFL draw isn't fair, but hey, life isn't fair. Get used to it.

I agree with GJ, Rick Hart could probably pipe and say a bit more to Eyebrows Demetriou

[sabre_ac]

I don't understand a lot of the thinking here...I know its only the NAB cup but shouldn't we try and win every game we play???

I think its been seen that players basically start the season with a finite tank, you play them too hard too early and they fade out or are more likely to be injured come season's end.

Could be why many of the bottom sides dominate the NAB cup, as they have nothing to loose.

I would like us to have a decent stab at the NAB derby, but would like to see a team much like the one we had against the Power.

[Freo Big Fella]

Ultimately, it would be great if we could get like a 'Darwin Dockers Supporters Club' or a 'Tassie Dockers Supporters Club' going with some decent numbers.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember seeing quite a reasonable swath of purple in the Darwin crowd when we played the bullies.

Not an enourmous issue for mine, we'll be playing the B-team for the South African game, so you'd assume there'd be a fairly minimal number that play both games. As long as Harves has his player management downpat we should be right.

Boycotting is stupid. We aren't one of Demitriou's favourites so we'd probably be slapped with a fine that would be better spent in other areas.

[estibador]

I don't understand a lot of the thinking here...I know its only the NAB cup but shouldn't we try and win every game we play???

I used to think that too.

But then this year I saw one of Freo's fairest (and best) players rubbed out for 4 weeks because the AFL had decided they needed a scapegoat to show off their shiny new rules. That's 4 weeks of the real season. The bullshit competition he was playing in wasn't even important enough for suspensions to count in.

Plus I realised all this talk of winning every comp was just a thinly disguised attempt by our club to boost the players' confidence. We're not an English soccer club. The NAB Cup isn't the FA Cup. Our coaching staff's aim to win the cup was more about getting an underachieving group to believe they were winners rather than any hunt for trophy glory.

Well winning the comp has done sweet FA for Carlton lately. We're not a bottom feeder. We don't need to win a meaningless tournament to believe we can compete. No club that's serious about the premiership is serious about the NAB cup.

So f**k the NAB Cup. F**k the AFL's attempts to convince us it's a meaningful comp using criminally disproportionate prize money. F**k the rule changes forcing players to spend their most important practice matches of the season playing by rules they won't be facing during the season. And most of all, f**k the AFL tribunal for their blatantly obvious attempts at snaring a scapegoat for every new crackdown they dream up. A crackdown that everyone knows won't last as the season goes on. Everyone except the AFL tribunal that is.

I say count backwards from the worst player on our list and that's our team. Get flogged in week 1 and concentrate on a low key buildup away from the cameras while the media write us off.

[Keyser Soze]

Blah blah blah - you know what you said.




And you are spot on - pre season is all about making sure the players are ready for Round 1. Victorian clubs need success in the preseason to drum up membership, Fremantle do not anymore than we do.

A derby in the preseason does no favours for either team, beacuase although the game means zilch, reality is the competitive instincts between the clubs raises the intensity of the game far higher than it deserves. FFS an exhibition game in London got the players from both sides up.

[estibador]

A derby in the preseason does no favours for either team, beacuase although the game means zilch, reality is the competitive instincts between the clubs raises the intensity of the game far higher than it deserves.

Exactly. It's like playing sport against your younger brother. You went out there to have a bit of fun but you'll be ****ed if you'll let that little bastard beat you. Even if it means you can't walk the next morning.

The AFL needs to wake up and realise what a gem they've got on their hands in the western derby. One of the standout games of the entire season, but every meaningless preseason game cheapens the real derbies. You can't ask players to play out a halfhearted practise western derby.

FFS an exhibition game in London got the players from both sides up.

And one of the coaches too.

Toilets can be hard to find sometimes.

[Keyser Soze]

Exactly. It's like playing sport against your younger brother. You went out there to have a bit of fun but you'll be ****ed if you'll let that little bastard beat you. Even if it means you can't walk the next morning.

Good analogy - having a younger brother myself I know exactly what you mean. Most games, even Monopoly ended in a puch up and I discovered that cricket stumps make an excellent spear.


The AFL needs to wake up and realise what a gem they've got on their hands in the western derby. One of the standout games of the entire season, but every meaningless preseason game cheapens the real derbies. You can't ask players to play out a halfhearted practise western derby.

Most people outside WA (maybe excluding South Australians) fail to understand the intensity of a derby. In years to come this will become the standout fixture of any season just as the Old Easts v Bulldogs games were. A derby GF when it happens will be a complete eye opener forthe rest of the country - it will dwarf the Carton V Collingwood games in intensity.

And one of the coaches too.

Toilets can be hard to find sometimes.

When you gotta go you gotta go.

[Moo]

Both sides just play the tweeners and kids .....cotton wool the stars and wait for the real stuff.

[royalsfan]

In early 1982 John todd's swan districts beat collingwood in the escort cup to set up a crucial match with richmond to get in the semi finals. The game was to be held in melbourne on a tuesday, after the swans had already played their regular wafl fixture. Todd said **** you to the then vfl and sent reserves and colts players, would have been a thrill, for them but the scoreline ended up 33 goals to 4.

My Thoughts are why can the eagles or dockers ever get a reasonable Nab cup fixture, we should put a united front up and boycott


Sorry for intruding - but - those are my thoughts as well. I refused to go last year and will do so again this year. The NAB is all about the dollars for the AFL, so if people don't attend the game, the AFL don't make any money. Easy.

[NiGHTFuRY]

I used to think that too.

But then this year I saw one of Freo's fairest (and best) players rubbed out for 4 weeks because the AFL had decided they needed a scapegoat to show off their shiny new rules. That's 4 weeks of the real season. The bullshit competition he was playing in wasn't even important enough for suspensions to count in.

Plus I realised all this talk of winning every comp was just a thinly disguised attempt by our club to boost the players' confidence. We're not an English soccer club. The NAB Cup isn't the FA Cup. Our coaching staff's aim to win the cup was more about getting an underachieving group to believe they were winners rather than any hunt for trophy glory.

Well winning the comp has done sweet FA for Carlton lately. We're not a bottom feeder. We don't need to win a meaningless tournament to believe we can compete. No club that's serious about the premiership is serious about the NAB cup.

So f**k the NAB Cup. F**k the AFL's attempts to convince us it's a meaningful comp using criminally disproportionate prize money. F**k the rule changes forcing players to spend their most important practice matches of the season playing by rules they won't be facing during the season. And most of all, f**k the AFL tribunal for their blatantly obvious attempts at snaring a scapegoat for every new crackdown they dream up. A crackdown that everyone knows won't last as the season goes on. Everyone except the AFL tribunal that is.

I say count backwards from the worst player on our list and that's our team. Get flogged in week 1 and concentrate on a low key buildup away from the cameras while the media write us off.

Second that...

[summerthebat]

I used to think that too.

But then this year I saw one of Freo's fairest (and best) players rubbed out for 4 weeks because the AFL had decided they needed a scapegoat to show off their shiny new rules. That's 4 weeks of the real season. The bullshit competition he was playing in wasn't even important enough for suspensions to count in.

Plus I realised all this talk of winning every comp was just a thinly disguised attempt by our club to boost the players' confidence. We're not an English soccer club. The NAB Cup isn't the FA Cup. Our coaching staff's aim to win the cup was more about getting an underachieving group to believe they were winners rather than any hunt for trophy glory.

Well winning the comp has done sweet FA for Carlton lately. We're not a bottom feeder. We don't need to win a meaningless tournament to believe we can compete. No club that's serious about the premiership is serious about the NAB cup.

So f**k the NAB Cup. F**k the AFL's attempts to convince us it's a meaningful comp using criminally disproportionate prize money. F**k the rule changes forcing players to spend their most important practice matches of the season playing by rules they won't be facing during the season. And most of all, f**k the AFL tribunal for their blatantly obvious attempts at snaring a scapegoat for every new crackdown they dream up. A crackdown that everyone knows won't last as the season goes on. Everyone except the AFL tribunal that is.

I say count backwards from the worst player on our list and that's our team. Get flogged in week 1 and concentrate on a low key buildup away from the cameras while the media write us off.

Right on

[ImperialPurple]

I used to think that too.

But then this year I saw one of Freo's fairest (and best) players rubbed out for 4 weeks because the AFL had decided they needed a scapegoat to show off their shiny new rules. That's 4 weeks of the real season. The bullshit competition he was playing in wasn't even important enough for suspensions to count in.

Plus I realised all this talk of winning every comp was just a thinly disguised attempt by our club to boost the players' confidence. We're not an English soccer club. The NAB Cup isn't the FA Cup. Our coaching staff's aim to win the cup was more about getting an underachieving group to believe they were winners rather than any hunt for trophy glory.

Well winning the comp has done sweet FA for Carlton lately. We're not a bottom feeder. We don't need to win a meaningless tournament to believe we can compete. No club that's serious about the premiership is serious about the NAB cup.

So f**k the NAB Cup. F**k the AFL's attempts to convince us it's a meaningful comp using criminally disproportionate prize money. F**k the rule changes forcing players to spend their most important practice matches of the season playing by rules they won't be facing during the season. And most of all, f**k the AFL tribunal for their blatantly obvious attempts at snaring a scapegoat for every new crackdown they dream up. A crackdown that everyone knows won't last as the season goes on. Everyone except the AFL tribunal that is.

I say count backwards from the worst player on our list and that's our team. Get flogged in week 1 and concentrate on a low key buildup away from the cameras while the media write us off.


Great post IP. :thumbsu:


Oh hang on.... :o

[dominguez]

I don't understand a lot of the thinking here...I know its only the NAB cup but shouldn't we try and win every game we play???



Carlton have won 2 of the last 3 NAB cups so there is no correlation between winning in the pre-season and then in the season proper. IIRC Sydney lost all four pre-season games the year they won the flag.