View Full Version : Is it time for another risk like Pike?
Caraboo
15 Oct 2007, 12:11
I know this is pretty out there, but the thought crossed my mind this morning.
The drafting of Pike was a big risk, but one that paid off. It became obvious over the glory years that we were sacrificing long term goals for short term success. And I certainly don't begrudge that at all. Infact I'm very impressed with what we've been able to achieve with the young brigade over the past 2 seasons. I'd say conservatively we are 2 - 3 years ahead of where the draft pick system says we should be based on our chasing the short term goals and keeping those premiership teams together.
So where to now?
We've got accelerated development that is beginning to pay off.
We've got 2 weaknesses that are probably the most obvious and subject to chance more than anything else.
1. Jonathan Brown - our biggest strength and with a little bad luck and injury, our biggest weakness.
2. CHB - not enough experience there yet to be a real contender. Merrett's backline development has been sensational, but we don't have another experienced player ready made to permanently stand up beside him and share the load.
We have a solution. Daniel Bradshaw. Fits in nicely to cover each of those weaknesses.
The only problem is he can't be in both positions at the same time.
So........Now please don't howl me down over this, I was surprised myself to find myself thinking it..........
Whitnall.
Given Leigh's historical success in rejuvinating troubled senior players like Pike, the experience and leadership qualities Whitnall has the ability to add, the 'get out of the Melbourne fishbowl and get a shot at continuing your career' that being in Qld has to offer, what would you think if the Club started looking at him as a bargain pick up in the PSD?
With where our youngsters are now, I can't see how it would stifle their development only enhance it, it could add depth and contingency, and if Leigh could 'do a Pike' with him and get his head in the right place, I actually think we could gain quite a bit of benefit from him.
As I said, I know it's pretty out there..........but the temptation of having a 2 pronged forward and back line like we had with Lynch/Brown & Leppitsch/Michael is very tempting.
Cousin Jed
15 Oct 2007, 12:24
It's not his head.
It's his whole body. No thanks.
Grimreepah
15 Oct 2007, 12:34
Why don't people rate Patfull? He's much better than Whitnall.
Caraboo
15 Oct 2007, 12:39
Why don't people rate Patfull? He's much better than Whitnall.
It's not that I don't rate Patfull. I'm will say I don't rate him as highly as say Bradshaw as a stop gap into our weak areas. It's an age and experience thing.
I'm talking about that if Leigh thought he could 'do another pike' with Whitnall and inject that experience to the group the chances of moving even further ahead are increased. That, and the experience that players like Patfull need could be accelerated as well.
And Cousin Jed - keep in mind the walk to McDonalds from the Gabba is up-hill! At the very least if he couldn't abstain he burn calories on his way!
Lace Out
15 Oct 2007, 12:40
Bradley could be worth a look.
Will easily afford him if Brennan exits.
Bone.
on.
Bone.
His knee is shot.
He can't keep fit with perfect knees. What hope has he got with no knee joint?
TheBrownDog
15 Oct 2007, 12:46
And Cousin Jed - keep in mind the walk to McDonalds from the Gabba is up-hill! At the very least if he couldn't abstain he burn calories on his way!
I reckon Lance would just hail a taxi for the 300 metre journey.
Grimreepah
15 Oct 2007, 13:00
It's not that I don't rate Patfull. I'm will say I don't rate him as highly as say Bradshaw as a stop gap into our weak areas. It's an age and experience thing.
Personally I see no reason to try and replace Patfull. Our defence was very good this year, and Patfull was a big reason behind that. I would say the only time he was beaten was when he played on Franklin.
I'm talking about that if Leigh thought he could 'do another pike' with Whitnall and inject that experience to the group the chances of moving even further ahead are increased. That, and the experience that players like Patfull need could be accelerated as well.
The art of rejuvenating careers is not only turning them around, but knowing who can/can't be rejuvenated in the first place.
Whitnall has off-field problems and he is athletically challenged. But worst of all his knee is stuffed, and there is nothing Leigh can do to fix that.
The way I see it, the club who needs Whitnall the most is Carlton, and they don't want him.
lionbear
15 Oct 2007, 13:13
Whitnall is a very good footballer, but I think injuries are not worth the risk.
I think Patfull will be coming along nicely next years.
When we took a risk with Pike I believe his body was carrying no scares of battle, so even though it is a punt taking a older player having him with no long term injuries is a box that must be ticked.
Caraboo
15 Oct 2007, 13:16
I have to admit I wasn't aware that his injury was THAT bad. That does sort of change my perspective on HIM a bit. But not on the notion that an injection of experience with a cheap pickup in the PSD would be a good thing to get right about now to try and cover those weaker areas.
TheBrownDog
15 Oct 2007, 13:28
When we took a risk with Pike I believe his body was carrying no scares of battle...
None from the football field anyway. Probably a few scars from pub brawls etc. ;)
notting18
15 Oct 2007, 13:30
Pike was a risk when we picked him up but it wasn't an onfield risk. I would rather we gamble of a player getting his off-field side fixed than finally figuring out how to play football or get over an injury.
I wrote this elsewhere, but it makes as much sense here.
Two years ago we were forced to throw small bodied, soft kids into the mix as the battle-scarred bodies of Voss, Brown, Leppa, Scott and Lappin started to fail on them. As we well remember we were often poleaxed through the later half of 2005 (remember that StKilda game? **SHUDDER**) into 2006. However our hand was forced and we made some brave decisions in some ways, and no-brainers in some other ways as we had no-one else left to play.
Our only nod towards 'quick fix' during that time was Benny Fixter, who has just been delisted (although it's true Roe and Patfull were slightly older than standard draft age).
Not one of Merrett, Begley, Drummond, Harding, Stiller, Roe or Patfull demanded their spot in the starting lineup on merit or consistent elite magoos performance alone. All were pushed up into their current spots ahead of time on faith and desperation alone.
We now sit here reaping the benefits of that faith and sometime pain, with all of that group (bar perhaps Harding) coming from either rookie list or well down the pecking order to inside our starting 22.
Why would we want to give Lance or Mathew Bode or any other old body another 15 games in a year where we're just looking to make the finals, when we could give those games to Alby Proud, Sammy Sheldon, Chris Schmidt, Haydn Kiel, Wat Tyler, James Hawkesley or even Pierce Hanley or Joel Tippett?
I'm not that wrapped about Trapper for Wood, but at least we know he's an elite midfield talent.
Leave hack recruitment to the Dons. Where are Allan, Campo, Mal, Salmon, Alvey, Zantuck, Cole, etc now?
Dylan12
15 Oct 2007, 13:40
Hell No to Whitnall and no to Bradley - Patfull keeps improving and with 4 talls (Merrett, Roe, Drummond, Patfull) why do we need one of the hacks mentioned - Also throw in Mills, Bradshaw, Clark, Brennan (if stays) as pinch hitting "talls" and Bushy - i would say we have adequate coverage - the only downside is that none have played more than 50 games (barring Brady, Bushy and Brennan) so experience wise we are lacking but i have enough confidence in the boys down there - (out of forwards, backs and mids - backs had the better year IMO) - that they can get the job done without recruiting anotehr senior player.
Grimreepah
15 Oct 2007, 13:54
Bradley could be worth a look.
I think Bradley would be a better gamble than Whitnall. He has some good attributes and if thinks clicked for him he could become a good player. He's probably in a bit of a similar situation to what Merrett was last year.
Dylan12
15 Oct 2007, 13:57
I think Bradley would be a better gamble than Whitnall. He has some good attributes and if thinks clicked for him he could become a good player. He's probably in a bit of a similar situation to what Merrett was last year.
Sorry Grim, but Bradley has very ordinary skills, often appears indecisive and isn't that hard it - i personally think that Freo would snag him before us anyway - was reading in Perth over the weekend that Harvey was filthy with some former collegaues that the deal wasn't done, so we really do not need to talk about Bradley.
_charlie_
15 Oct 2007, 14:03
Pike's problems were primarily off-field.
Whitnall's problems are primarily on-field.
There is a big difference between recruiting a mature player who has potential but has some personal issues to sort out, and a mature player who looks to be at the end of the road.
Not worth it.
Lace Out
15 Oct 2007, 14:11
I think Bradley would be a better gamble than Whitnall. He has some good attributes and if thinks clicked for him he could become a good player. He's probably in a bit of a similar situation to what Merrett was last year.
Bradley can certainly take a grab,have seen him dominate in the twos.He only needs to improve 15-20 percent which a change of clubs can often do and he will be a handy back up IMO.
Lace Out
15 Oct 2007, 14:18
Sorry Grim, but Bradley has very ordinary skills, often appears indecisive and isn't that hard it - i personally think that Freo would snag him before us anyway - was reading in Perth over the weekend that Harvey was filthy with some former collegaues that the deal wasn't done, so we really do not need to talk about Bradley.
Depends what role he plays.I wouldn't say Merrett was overloaded with skills.
Warwick
15 Oct 2007, 14:22
Whitnall?
Has BrownDog been sending his texts again?
Dylan12
15 Oct 2007, 14:30
Depends what role he plays.I wouldn't say Merrett was overloaded with skills.
Agree Merrett's skills were ordinary to begin with, but in defence for Rog, he picked up the game at 16-17 in Surfers Paradise of all places, only playing a season before he came to the Lions whereas Bradley has been playing footy most of his life over at West Perth in the WAFL and he still hasn't improved after how many seasons with the Dons? We shouldn't go near this one and won't; Freo will draft him before us in the PSD or he stays put, so no matter what, he won't be a Lion, and nor should he be!
roostersgal4eva
15 Oct 2007, 14:41
If merrit goes down who in the feck will be our FB? Braddy? then whos going to help Browny out
I say no to Lance but I hope we look at Torney seriously - hes no risk off feild and he never shirks an issue on feild (a type of attuitued leigh loves) + had his best season ever!
Adelaide dumping him is a disgrace :mad:
Dylan12
15 Oct 2007, 14:46
If merrit goes down who in the feck will be our FB? Braddy? then whos going to help Browny out
I say no to Lance but I hope we look at Torney seriously
Adelaide dumping him is a disgrace :mad:
How many years would Torney have left?
From what i saw he was always a solid back half player, a role Johnno played so dominantly for many years - would need to know how old he is before i formed an opinion though - if had a mimimum of 4-5 years - why not - if the right one experienced player is available, i am all for getting someone to provide immediate coverage should we get injuries via the PSD.
Caraboo
15 Oct 2007, 14:49
How many years would Torney have left?
From what i saw he was always a solid back half player, a role Johnno played so dominantly for many years - would need to know how old he is before i formed an opinion though - if had a mimimum of 4-5 years - why not - if the right one experienced player is available, i am all for getting someone to provide immediate coverage should we get injuries via the PSD.
What about an injury free (or as relatively injury free as they can be at their age) older experienced player just for a year or 2? That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. A stop-gap/weakness cover for key areas while the others still develop. Our younger brigade have been fast tracked by necessity, but the simple fact is that it is physically impossible for them to continue to develop at this rate. Skill wise they might keep going along quite nicely, but the physciallity of the game is where they are going to be lacking and that is something that can only be addressed by time/age/more seasons under their belts.
roostersgal4eva
15 Oct 2007, 14:50
his 30 atmo - he would have 3-4 years left
but he was 9th at the team's best and fairest and top 5 in the media awards we have in SA for the local teams
he has rarely been injured and played every game this year
Crows are just in the 'lets get rid of anyone whos 30+' phase when he would be better than 1/3 of who has been kept on at the Crows
Whitnall has nothing to offer us.
Kepler Bradley is a complete hack.
Patful is a gun. Did anyone see him demolish Russell Robertson? Spoiled everything that came near him.
Bradders can slot in at either end.
I'd say go for a qld kid!
I don't mind Torney and he wouldn't be a bad acquisition for someone who wanted a solid type for 2 years. But really, I don't think we've got the list space to give to someone like him. I'd rather than we took 4 or 5 draft picks, or gave a promotion to someone like Dzufer or Hamill. They aren't better players than Torney but I'd rather take a punt on a young guy.
Warwick
15 Oct 2007, 14:53
No way to Torney.
Has maybe 2 years left in him.
I'm usually not against trading or recruiting older players, but there has got to be some sort of limit.
I can't see him breaking into our best team, and you don't recruit blokes just to be injury insurance.
Warwick
15 Oct 2007, 14:56
his 30 atmo - he would have 3-4 years left
Have a look a the retirees the last couple of years. Only a small fraction were older than 31 or 32.
Have a look a the retirees the last couple of years. Only a small fraction were older than 31 or 32.
Spot on. For every Banger Harvey there's 20 Chris Scott/Aaron Hammil/Matty Robbins/Luke Darcy's.
Look at the marathon fields. They're full of 35-45 year old, because endurance performance peaks at that age. But the side effect of massive increases in interchange has been to reduce the need for elite endurance. A guy with skill and pace can be rested every 8 minutes now, and runs away from the older, super-endurance specialist every time.
They'd prefer 4 guys running at 95% capacity than 3 guys running at 80% and one guy watching.
roostersgal4eva
15 Oct 2007, 15:51
Spot on. For every Banger Harvey there's 20 Chris Scott/Aaron Hammil/Matty Robbins/Luke Darcy's
Chris Scott/Aaron Hammil/Matty Robbins/Luke Darcy have had long term, long lasting injuries
Torny has not been injured since he came to the crows
there is a difference
Warwick
15 Oct 2007, 17:14
With smaller lists these days you do not recruit 30 year olds unless they fill a desperate gap (i.e. a number one ruck position).
Torney would not be in our best 22 - we don't need him.
Ben Hart was linked to the Lions last year as well. We are not a retirement home for South Australian players.
Imagine if we'd drafted Ben Hart.
Best case scenario, he plays 18 games, goes ok, then retires. Everyone claps and slaps his back.
Patful plays 3 games, mostly off the bench with limited opportunity. Never finds a consistent spot and is constantly talked about as a delisting option come season's end.
Good result for the club?
Whitnall would be a waste of space at any club.
Sure you'll get the calls of "he's cheap" "would come in handy" "what could you lose" etc etc. He may well be capable of playing a few 'handy' games during the season, but when evaluating players like this I always firstly think "when the heat is on, what will his real contribution be?"
Everyone wants to be playing finals, and it's then, that these players are most important. It's not worth a few handy games during the season, if they'll be exposed in finals.
I'm all for players reinvigorating themselves, but I'd always take a risk on the head, over the body.
LuckyLuke
15 Oct 2007, 20:45
Imagine if we'd drafted Ben Hart.
Best case scenario, he plays 18 games, goes ok, then retires. Everyone claps and slaps his back.
Patful plays 3 games, mostly off the bench with limited opportunity. Never finds a consistent spot and is constantly talked about as a delisting option come season's end.
Good result for the club?
Top post.
This should be printed out, framed and put on the boardroom of a few clubs with a totally scewed view on this issue.
Grimreepah
15 Oct 2007, 21:03
Sorry Grim, but Bradley has very ordinary skills, often appears indecisive and isn't that hard it - i personally think that Freo would snag him before us anyway - was reading in Perth over the weekend that Harvey was filthy with some former collegaues that the deal wasn't done, so we really do not need to talk about Bradley.
Apparently has been delisted by Essendon. I agree he is likely to be gone by pick 7. May well be gone before Freo's pick even.
konstas_87
15 Oct 2007, 21:21
Why don't people rate Patfull? He's much better than Whitnall.
i def rate him, is a very talented footballer.
konstas_87
15 Oct 2007, 21:21
Imagine if we'd drafted Ben Hart.
Best case scenario, he plays 18 games, goes ok, then retires. Everyone claps and slaps his back.
Patful plays 3 games, mostly off the bench with limited opportunity. Never finds a consistent spot and is constantly talked about as a delisting option come season's end.
Good result for the club?
completely agree :thumbsu:
The Flying Belgian
15 Oct 2007, 21:58
I think the name of the thread says it all. Risk.
And to be honest I think Johnstone is a risk anyway as he's come through a different structure to everyone on our list and how exactly he'll react can't be predicted.
BigCat2
15 Oct 2007, 22:03
Agreed. And I think there's only a case to take a risk if there's good reason for it, not just for the sake of taking a risk.
Look at the best Poker players - yes they're big gamblers, but they calculate their every gamble.
Pikey was a calculated gamble that paid off.
beatnik
16 Oct 2007, 00:13
no to Lance
no to Torney
maybe to Bradley (i'd be interested to see how he'd go under Leigh)
i wasn't a big fan of the Johnstone trade at first but I have warmed to it - i think TJ is our Pikey for this year...no more ;)
I'm happy with dealing with one chance (albeit slight) of failure a year.
Johnstone isn't exactly the MOST reliable guy from all reports.
OldLion
16 Oct 2007, 10:21
On Whitnall - see Jeff Hogg.
Bradley = Mills IMO. I'd probably be interested.
On Mr Pike - he could play anywhere .. and was very funny.
lion_gooner
16 Oct 2007, 21:59
lance could always go to the domino's across the road from the gabba and could even get them to bring it over for him LOL
Tim the Toolman
16 Oct 2007, 22:01
Surely Cousins would be available now?
ReluctantLion
16 Oct 2007, 22:21
Ben Hart was linked to the Lions last year as well. We are not a retirement home for South Australian players.
He was a Fitzroy supporter as a kid and his old boy was the Fitzroy scout in S.A. so I could understand why he looked to go to the Lions.
He was actually offered the Fitzroy captaincy in the 90's if he jumped ship but declined for obvious financial reasons.
Surely Cousins would be available now?
I'm thinking more the Kerr who's going to lose Judd and Cousins in the one season. :p
notting18
17 Oct 2007, 00:35
Surely Cousins would be available now?
If/When the Eagles cut him loose, I would expect the AFL to deregister him as well....
Has Jonathan Hay been keeping fit?
roostersgal4eva
17 Oct 2007, 10:36
Surely Cousins would be available now?
he would be deregistered by the AFL I would think
It might be best for him to forget football and consentrate on getting better.
Besides I dont think Leigh would want him. A non football loving state would be great for BC though to get away from the crap
Got another name to throw up in 'should we look at him' category - Fergus Watts? Thoughts
Got another name to throw up in 'should we look at him' category - Fergus Watts? Thoughts
Didn't he kick a bag on Roey in a SANFL grand final? From what I've heard, that's about his only achievement. Pass on him, IMO.
I think this year it would take a really special situation for us to recycle a player.
Tim the Toolman
17 Oct 2007, 13:26
I can't believe people took my comment seriously!
I suppose the 'smilies' are for people whom don't know a joke when they see one! :p
Dylan12
17 Oct 2007, 18:36
Has Jonathan Hay been keeping fit?
I saw him last week at a hotel in Perth last weekend. One day he looked about as normal as one would expect, the following day he had given homself a mohawk - no crap - he looked in ok pysical nick - but he looked well under the weather. No chance he will play AFL again.
Also of note, which i reported, Michael Braun was staying there, and Gubby & Marcus Allan were meeting with a couple of gents (maybe WAFL related or Freo/WCE rookie spot (unlikely)) - and the big kicker - none other than Marilyn Manson was staying there, plus all his freaks.
That's a shame about Hay. I really liked him as a footballer.
Dylan12
17 Oct 2007, 23:58
That's a shame about Hay. I really liked him as a footballer.
Yeah but did you see those highlights of him earlier this year when he played for Tassie after apparently going out the night before - he could barely handle the footy and was one of the most embarrassing performances seen on a footy field - but in his day, i will definately agree he was good for a period of about 3 years, culminating in AA selection for memory.
someone should've told him to take some berocca. lol
Grimreepah
18 Oct 2007, 03:09
Interesting to see that Geelong have delisted Sam Hunt. He looked a decent player in the early part of the season.
Bobby Beecroft
18 Oct 2007, 08:49
Interesting to see that Geelong have delisted Sam Hunt. He looked a decent player in the early part of the season.
Big body, Tries hard but is a bit slow.
Has been cut by 2 AFL clubs, more than likely the end of the road at that level. Wouldn't mind betting he turns up at some state league.
Interesting to see that Geelong have delisted Sam Hunt. He looked a decent player in the early part of the season.
Reckon he imitates a decent footballer. Good VFL p[ayer.
Marty Pask - the Musical.
Sherminator.
18 Oct 2007, 21:10
Todd Grima, 51 goals in the VFL. Geelong's premiership winning VFL FF. 192cm 90kg. Super athletic, runs VFL FB's into the ground. I'd love Brisbane to grab Grima, he would/could be a Bradshaw replacement.
Great kick, FWIR.
David Bourke anyone??? If he is still alive that is.
OldLion
19 Oct 2007, 00:11
Tood Grima, 51 goals in the VFL. Geelong's premiership winning VFL FF. 192cm 90kg. Super athletic, runs VFL FB's into the ground. I'd love Brisbane to grab Grima, he would/could be a Bradshaw replacement.
Great kick, FWIR.If we do pick him up, that's a great nickname - Tood.
Sherminator.
19 Oct 2007, 00:13
If we do pick him up, that's a great nickname - Tood.
Don't tamper with quotes...;)
don vito of fitzroy
19 Oct 2007, 11:38
Forget Hay. He's gone. Forget Bradley. He's crap. Watts isn't worth it. He only went to St Kilda because of his dad.
choco123
20 Oct 2007, 00:06
Forget Hay. He's gone. Forget Bradley. He's crap. Watts isn't worth it. He only went to St Kilda because of his dad.
yeh agreed. rather us continue to develop younger players so that can hav another 3 in a row!!!
Hilly72
22 Oct 2007, 12:48
David Bourke anyone??? If he is still alive that is.
Works with me... Great bloke....
Grimreepah
22 Oct 2007, 21:41
Fremantle delistings:
James Walker
Clayton Collard
Calib Mourish
Ryley Dunn
Robert Hadrill
You'd think all of those are a chance of being picked up at other clubs.
The Flying Belgian
22 Oct 2007, 21:51
Fremantle delistings:
James Walker
Clayton Collard
Calib Mourish
Ryley Dunn
Robert Hadrill
You'd think all of those are a chance of being picked up at other clubs.
There were always question marks over Mourish's commitment, but someone else might see a rookie spot for him, can't see anything higher for him. Collard is a surprise though. Dunn has struggled with injuries for a while, but I can see a club taking him in the draft. Hadrill and Walker I don't think anyone would bother with.
If I was a Freo fan I'd be very pleased to see Harvey making a few tough decisions.