View Full Version : Thornton
cfc4life
22 Oct 2007, 13:32
I want to get an opinion how do people rate Bret Thornton. I think that he hasnt done much the past couple of years. We probably should have traded him to Hawthorn for someone maybe KP defender.
Thoughts?
Captain_Knowall
22 Oct 2007, 13:48
I saw him at the pub on sat night after the races... seemed like a nice enough guy.
Not sure Hawthorn have a wealth of Key Defenders to give away... Thornton is definietly dispensable but as we are light on for key backmen ourselves was always gonna make it hard to get the right deal.
AlecDuncan
22 Oct 2007, 13:49
I want to get an opinion how do people rate Bret Thornton. I think that he hasnt done much the past couple of years. We probably should have traded him to Hawthorn for someone maybe KP defender.
What? With pick 32 or whatever they were offering?
He hasn't done much the past couple of years except single-handedly hold our defence together (or at least be the most likely one to do it).
I like Brets determination and the fact he hates getting neat, I think its half way to being a good backman. The fact that he openly shows it ALL the time is a slight concern. However, I think this will diminish now that the pressure will ease (hopefully) with a better midfield.
I also believe he was adjusting to a new position on occasions last year, with Setanta and Waite and co. playing down back he was taking the 3rd tall on occasions as well as the smaller forwards now and then. The first couple of years he played Key Position, was settled in that position and did well. I think you will find as our backline becomes established and Brets role is more defined he will adjust to becoming that 3rd tall backmen and take advantage of the steep learning curve he has undertaken in the first 4 years at the club.
The coming year is a watershed year for him as he really needs to take advantage of the varied skills he has developed and become a cornertsone of our defence.
Magnificence
22 Oct 2007, 14:05
He looked great in the Wizard Cup last year as the 3rd tall however he simply did not get enough of the football in the home and away season.
The third tall must regularly leave their man and cut off the full fwd on the lead and should be getting lots of cheap stats.
BluesRules
22 Oct 2007, 14:20
Thornton has been a good average player since 2002. But, it's safe to say that he wouldn't have played 100 games at any other club in the AFL. He came to the club at the start of our pathetic run of form and lack of key defenders.
Jezza U Beauty
22 Oct 2007, 14:22
I rate him highly for what he is - a good 3rd tall defender. It's a bit harsh to judge him as a true key full back as he doesn't have the size.
I also like how he hates getting beaten, but i reckon his greatest asset is that you can trust his disposal. He almost always uses the ball well.
We should definitely keep him.
I want to get an opinion how do people rate Bret Thornton. I think that he hasnt done much the past couple of years. We probably should have traded him to Hawthorn for someone maybe KP defender.
Thoughts?
Over rated
Thornton will play a more consistent role next season
well as long as he stops doing u-turns when he has the ball!!
blue-insider
22 Oct 2007, 14:56
Thorton struggled this year as he could not handball backward to Livo! He is not strong at all with attacking from defence and struggles every time to run forward in play and look forward for a target. For him, its easier to handball to the side (to Scotland) or look backward. I think he's an ok backman but his composure was seriously found out last season.
He does not have any where near the hunger Andrew McKay had when running out of defence - and needs a little 'white line fever' to improve his game.
Harry Madden
22 Oct 2007, 15:24
He hasn't done much the past couple of years except single-handedly hold our defence together.
Spot on!
Jeremias
22 Oct 2007, 15:26
Like it or not, he has been our best key defender over the last couple of years, and has performed well, well out of his weight division. He has been asked to take on guys that he is not accustomed to, and has done pretty well.
He just needs support. He is a 3rd tall defender ideally, so he just needs some bigger bodies down back to assist him, and he will bring his best footy to the table.
MyBloodIsBlue
22 Oct 2007, 15:37
Not only has he been our best key defender but he's been the only one.
I really hate people bagging him, it's not his fault he's not big enough to be a traditional full back but he's done a great job week in week out. Imagine being him, he's only 23 (??) and every week facing Brown, Lloyd, Gehrig etc. I'm looking forward to Carlos at full back and Bret having a bit of pressure taken off him.
one_twelve112
22 Oct 2007, 15:38
Seems like a nice enough guy but I can't stand watching him play football. Too many dummy-spits and way too much finger pointing. Ability wise, pretty average.
Blue Dawn
22 Oct 2007, 15:53
Like it or not, he has been our best key defender over the last couple of years, and has performed well, well out of his weight division. He has been asked to take on guys that he is not accustomed to, and has done pretty well.
He just needs support. He is a 3rd tall defender ideally, so he just needs some bigger bodies down back to assist him, and he will bring his best footy to the table.
Totally agree with this statement up until last year when his performances lacked discipline and focus. Next season will be a telling one for Bret and whether he can consolidate into a very effective 'Sexton' role OR whether he'd rather play for another team. Reckon a few wins may see the former more than likely to be the outcome.
legendtofski
22 Oct 2007, 15:54
Thornton has been a good average player since 2002. But, it's safe to say that he wouldn't have played 100 games at any other club in the AFL. He came to the club at the start of our pathetic run of form and lack of key defenders.
Agree 100%..And I don't think he was any better than Livo, but fuggen Pagan completely stuffed Livo up and Karl Norman...there was at least three potentially decent defender, but such was Pagan the loser.
Thornton has been a good average player since 2002. But, it's safe to say that he wouldn't have played 100 games at any other club in the AFL. He came to the club at the start of our pathetic run of form and lack of key defenders.
You may need to do a bit of research to answer me then, why was he statistically the best defender in the comp for the last 8 weeks of season 2006? Why did Hawthorn, a team with a wealth of talent on the way up, chase him so hard? and came back for a second go?
Agree 100%..And I don't think he was any better than Livo, but fuggen Pagan completely stuffed Livo up and Karl Norman...there was at least three potentially decent defender, but such was Pagan the loser.
Correct, the club should have wrapped Livo in cotton wool to stop him getting injured:rolleyes:
But maybe if Pagan had stopped Karl Norman from taking drugs and made him want to play football, instead of just giving him chance after chance to do it on his own, our defense would be top notch:rolleyes: Instead he went to the Bulldogs and he didn't show up to pre-season:thumbsu:
one_twelve112
22 Oct 2007, 16:15
You may need to do a bit of research to answer me then, why was he statistically the best defender in the comp for the last 8 weeks of season 2006? Why did Hawthorn, a team with a wealth of talent on the way up, chase him so hard? and came back for a second go?
Proof that stats are completely meaningless. Thornton was given an opportunity this year to play as 2nd or 3rd tall defender not on the gorilla full forwards. I expected him to have a much much better season with the easing of a lot of pressure. I was pretty dissappointed to be honest.
blues4flag
22 Oct 2007, 16:19
I am disappointed with his dummyspits - but seeing as he wanted out in 2006 I'm guessing he probably wasn't enjoying his footy much at Carlton. I'm hoping that with Pagan gone and Ratts in, this side of his game will improve. I'm sure he'll have a better year than last - especially with a more competitive midfield taking pressure off him and hopefully a more experienced and stable backline.
BluesRules
22 Oct 2007, 16:21
You may need to do a bit of research to answer me then, why was he statistically the best defender in the comp for the last 8 weeks of season 2006? Why did Hawthorn, a team with a wealth of talent on the way up, chase him so hard? and came back for a second go?
1: If Hawthorn chased him hard why didn't they offer something of value. They didn't want to give us a first round pick, so they probably don't rate him that highly.
2: The last 8 weeks: The best defender my ars*. Where there pis* did you get that from.
Funkalicous
22 Oct 2007, 16:22
In the first half of the year he was clearly our best defender, and in the second half he was clearly our best tanker. ;)
Again I thought he was great for us this year. Had a couple of niggles, but nothing serious. He's a good player for us. - Totally unappreciated by some.
One word - sook.
Lucky for him he escapes the backlash from fans and the media, that Fev gets when he has a sook and blames his team mates.
AlecDuncan
22 Oct 2007, 16:48
Thorton struggled this year as he could not handball backward to Livo! He is not strong at all with attacking from defence and struggles every time to run forward in play and look forward for a target. For him, its easier to handball to the side (to Scotland) or look backward. I think he's an ok backman but his composure was seriously found out last season.
Completely wrong on every point. His biggest problem was carrying an ankle injury (?) towards the end of the season. His second biggest problem was the lack of a stable back-six he could depend on. With Setanta and Waite press-ganged into other roles it often left him without tall support. Hopefully that's rectified this year.
He does not have any where near the hunger Andrew McKay had when running out of defence - and needs a little 'white line fever' to improve his game.
Well, who does? The Vet is missed.
BluesRules
22 Oct 2007, 16:51
One word - sook.
Lucky for him he escapes the backlash from fans and the media, that Fev gets when he has a sook and blames his team mates.
I agree. His a bloody cry baby
not the best backman but he hasnt got much help and the opposition midfield till next year has had a qyuiet better mdfeild than us meaning he has more work to do.
Blue Dimension
22 Oct 2007, 17:50
He hasn't done much the past couple of years except single-handedly hold our defence together
Couldn't have said it any better myself. Thornton is grossly UNDERRATED. He is not given recognition for the amount of crap he's been put through during our very tough years down the bottom of the ladder.
Would look extremely classy in any top 8 side.
Thornton has been a good average player since 2002. But, it's safe to say that he wouldn't have played 100 games at any other club in the AFL. He came to the club at the start of our pathetic run of form and lack of key defenders.
Probably the first time i've ever disagreed with you BluesRules. He's grown into solid defender and his worth would have been noticed while in a better team. Unfortunately Carlton fans expect him to be God and prevent guys like Gehrig and LLoyd and Richardson from getting the ball even after it's entered the defensive 50 an embarrassing amount of times.
PeterDean
22 Oct 2007, 18:05
don't mind him as a player - probably needed to do a bit more last season after putting his hand out.
very similar player to danny jacobs i reckon.
BlueYoss
22 Oct 2007, 18:26
http://youtube.com/watch?v=e23M1CHu6tU
Anyone have footage of that one handed mark he took down on his knees sliding through the goal square?
blueant
22 Oct 2007, 18:39
he is a good third tall defender but we all expect him to man up against the gorilaz. Yeh would of like to have traded him to Hawrthorn for Beu Dolwer Pick number 6 in 2005 draft turn out be a good CHF if he can string a game they got plenty fowards to spear with Mitch Thorpe coming along
1: If Hawthorn chased him hard why didn't they offer something of value. They didn't want to give us a first round pick, so they probably don't rate him that highly.
2: The last 8 weeks: The best defender my ars*. Where there pis* did you get that from.
They didn't need to the first time, cause he was uncontracted, as i said...they went back for seconds this year!!! That makes one team he would get a game with
Go bring up some of the stats from 2006, you must not have watched much footy whilst he stood up! not saying he is the best defender, but he is as good and better proven than any defender on our list. We were all dissapointed this year!
nathbear
22 Oct 2007, 20:20
If you go back and read through all the articles from trade week last season, you'll see that Hawthorn were offering two second round draft selections for Thornton, which isn't a bad sort of offer at all. Carlton were just completely unwilling to even entertain the prospect of trading him so those offers were ignored.
I have no idea what was offered this year, but in all honesty, I can't see Carlton pushing too hard to trade the guy at all.
As people have said, there have been times when Thornton was the ONLY player in the Carlton backline who was even remotely better than terrible over the past few years. He's had a hell of a job with the amount of quality delivery reigning down towards his opposing forwards and has actually done pretty well.
He wins a lot of the footy as well for someone typically running off the full back line, rather than the half back line.
I think we're all going to see just how valuable a player like Thornton is to the Carlton side over the next couple of seasons. We have a midfield now that should win WAY more than they lose at the stoppages so the delivery coming down towards Thornton and our other backs won't be nearly as effective or as numerous. He'll not only shut down that third tall forward, he'll be able to run off him and drill those precision passes of his to that same midfield that will kill opposition sides.
He'll also be available to switch to playing KP in the backline if we need him to (ie... one of the bigger guys are getting beaten, or the opposition has a small key forward, etc).
I absolutely hate the constant dummy spits, but I just can't argue with his value to the Carlton side over the next few seasons.
Thornton is the hack of the century. He can't:
-spoil
-run
-dispose of the ball
He is weak
All he can do is switch play
If you ask me, if CArlton couldn't trade him, they should just delist him
Baroclinic instability
22 Oct 2007, 20:54
Thornton is the hack of the century. He can't:
-spoil
-run
-dispose of the ball
He is weak
All he can do is switch play
If you ask me, if CArlton couldn't trade him, they should just delist him
Can you provide any figures regarding his kicking efficiency? Unlike anyone on BF to make statements without having any facts to back it up.
TorresIsGod
22 Oct 2007, 20:58
He's over-rated
blue-insider
23 Oct 2007, 13:57
Completely wrong on every point. His biggest problem was carrying an ankle injury (?) towards the end of the season. His second biggest problem was the lack of a stable back-six he could depend on. With Setanta and Waite press-ganged into other roles it often left him without tall support. Hopefully that's rectified this year.
Well, who does? The Vet is missed.
Injury late in the season? Guess that explains his first 3/4 of the year. His dummy spits and lack of composure, again is this due to the late injury? Quality posting there pal. Well thought out.
And the excuse that support around him is weak - what a stupid remark. Good players play well regardless of the skill level of team mates. Your understanding is little.
And your last quote makes no sense. Think, then post. Dumbass.
one_twelve112
23 Oct 2007, 14:09
Injury late in the season? Guess that explains his first 3/4 of the year. His dummy spits and lack of composure, again is this due to the late injury? Quality posting there pal. Well thought out.
And the excuse that support around him is weak - what a stupid remark. Good players play well regardless of the skill level of team mates. Your understanding is little.
And your last quote makes no sense. Think, then post. Dumbass.
Apart from the personal insults, I agree with most of what your saying re: Thornton.
Blue Dimension
23 Oct 2007, 15:00
Can you provide any figures regarding his kicking efficiency? Unlike anyone on BF to make statements without having any facts to back it up.
All i know is that he had a kicking efficiency of 92% in 2006 - the best of any backman in the league Not sure about 2007.
So anybody who suggests he can't kick is completely wrong.
Blues_Man
23 Oct 2007, 15:19
not the best backman
He's our best backman ...end of story