View Full Version : Your thoughts about a possible North Melbourne relocation
Warwick
25 Oct 2007, 21:33
As we know, plenty of talk about a possible move to our backyard in the not-to-distant future for the Kangaroos. Full credit to their supporters on here who seem to be organising themselves to make a stand. :thumbsu: I would hate to be in their position with the team I have supported my entire life.
But if the move does go ahead there will be serious consequences for us as well (obviously not to the same extent). I really can't see how anyone believes a second team will survive in SEQ. It is just madness. Brisbane have one of the lowest membership groups in the competition, and the Gold Coast have just been given a new rugby league and basketball licence. How are they to survive without massive concessions and hand-outs? Where are the supporters going to come from? By the sounds of it, a number of Kanga supporters will jump off if they are moved. And traditionally, they haven't been one of the more supported clubs up here.
I would hate to see them at the Coast. It would mean draft concessions for the Roos to tap into the Qld talent, and they would be much more inclined to draft locally. We are disadvantaged enough with the go-home factor and the big Melbourne vultures circling around looking for a bargain.
The Roos will struggle to survive 10 years if they move up here. Why can't the AFL see this? They are hardly going to be better off.
TheBrownDog
25 Oct 2007, 21:37
No economic evidence exists at all to provide any basis for the viability of Demetriou's ambitions.
He just wants to leave a mark on the game, good or bad.
The man has gone mad.
Didn't he play for the Kangaroos?
campbell
25 Oct 2007, 21:40
No economic evidence exists at all to provide any basis for the viability of Demetriou's ambitions.
He just wants to leave a mark on the game, good or bad.
The man has gone mad.
Didn't he play for the Kangaroos?
He sure did play for the Roos.
I think, if they have another club up here, it should be our own, like a Southport. I don't think a relocated club can work on many levels.
TheBrownDog
25 Oct 2007, 21:41
Isn't a Western Sydney team more viable, population wise?
How about central coast?
Warwick
25 Oct 2007, 21:44
He sure did play for the Roos.
I think, if they have another club up here, it should be our own, like a Southport. I don't think a relocated club can work on many levels.
If we got to a stage where a second team could survive up here (i.e. Brisbane membership and crowd numbers increase by 20%, we make a consistent profit, and SEQ's population continues to grow) I would consider a home-grown team as well.
However, I would hate that team to be Southport. It would be much better to start a Gold Coast team, rather than a team who are despised at the local level by many in the region.
campbell
25 Oct 2007, 21:45
Isn't a Western Sydney team more viable, population wise?
How about central coast?
We have a large mexican population, and its growing fast.At least they share a love of the code. Western Sydney is NRL and so is the Central Coast.
TheBrownDog
25 Oct 2007, 21:46
If
However, I would hate that team to be Southport. It would be much better to start a Gold Coast team, rather than a team who are despised at the local level by many in the region.
Yeah, agreed, can't let Southport have the monopoly on it.
It would have to be a creation much like the Crows.
campbell
25 Oct 2007, 21:47
If we got to a stage where a second team could survive up here (i.e. Brisbane membership and crowd numbers increase by 20%, we make a consistent profit, and SEQ's population continues to grow) I would consider a home-grown team as well.
However, I would hate that team to be Southport. It would be much better to start a Gold Coast team, rather than a team who are despised at the local level by many in the region.
agree.
plus the North faithfull hate the idea. I don't know what the answer is, cause what the AFL wants the AFL gets.
TheBrownDog
25 Oct 2007, 21:48
We have a large mexican population, and its growing fast.At least they share a love of the code. Western Sydney is NRL and so is the Central Coast.
The mexican population isn't nearly enough to justify a new team, especially as many of them have brought their team allegiance with them.
Alot of people also use Southport's membership numbers as proof of viability. Anyone who thinks that the grandmas and grandads who pay 20 dollars a year for access to the pokies and the Sunday afternoon roast buffett are going to support this new team, they're dreaming.
campbell
25 Oct 2007, 21:53
yeah, but a lot of people would go to the football, to just watch afl. Thats why we have a lot of people as members of our club, who are really say hawks supporters. But they love the code, and miss their footy.
I think that local ownership of a team would be better than dropping one in for a small amount of games per season.
Reading between the lines I thank the AFL are absolutely committed to plonking the Roos on the coast. They will keep on pumping dollars in until it works.
notting18
25 Oct 2007, 22:32
Reading between the lines I thank the AFL are absolutely committed to plonking the Roos on the coast. They will keep on pumping dollars in until it works.
I agree weevil, i would also hope that the AFL is aware how this will affect our financial position and be prepared to pump a few bucks our way!
Kochie 16
25 Oct 2007, 22:43
My thoughts are to tell them just to piss off! The rest was pretty much covered in the first post.
konstas_87
25 Oct 2007, 23:24
do the Lions have any say?
they are an AFL club surely if they submitted evidence to the AFL that this would affect the financial position of our club and future on-field success they would have to consider it seriously...
As browny said on the footy show, after the kangas we were the 2nd or 3rd lowest membership in 07, which SURELY shows that SEQ is a long way off being able to support a 2nd AFL team.
Take your head out of the sand Demetriou and look at this objectively for a second, it's not even CLOSE to being viable at the moment, financially or supporter-base wise, and won't be so for AT LEAST 5 more years.
Don’t think they are interested in anything but the long term picture.
Viability at the moment is not a blip on their radar. They want to establish a presence as soon as practically possible and they will pour dollars into whatever obstacle gets in their way in the interim.
Cousin Jed
26 Oct 2007, 09:18
Easily the most ridiculous idea ever. Absolutely disgraceful.
A sinful waste of money, and it will cost the AFL Tens of Millions of dollars, that frankly could be better spent elsewhere.
Easily the most ridiculous idea ever. Absolutely disgraceful.
A sinful waste of money, and it will cost the AFL Tens of Millions of dollars, that frankly could be better spent elsewhere.
I'd be working on 100 million dollars really (said in a dr.evil voice). Realistically you'd be looking at a lot longer to establish a team on the coast than in Brisbane. Let's be conservative and say it took 12 years to establish Brisbane (if indeed we are there yet). I'd say it would take 20 years to establish Gold Coast (if it's not Southport). I'd say you would need more than $5 million a year subsidy. That would equate to what 25% of turnover? I would say that would be a minimum. So my conservative estimate is that it would cost $100 million to establish a Gold Coast club, and even then it probably wouldnt work. Not a very sound investment.
Kangalicious
26 Oct 2007, 10:37
Hey guys, am delighted to see you feel the same way about this as we do. If you check out the NM board, you'll see that there is virtually no support for relocation. So far, opposition has come mainly from within our club, but we are hearing more and more opposition from other teams, especially yours.
Everything you've written about the prospects in Qld confirms my suspicion that to move would make us dependent on the AFL forever, and would compromise the future of both of our clubs. I would rather struggle and fight out of Arden St, than condemn both your team and mine to a lingering death to satisfy the ego of Demetriou.
Please keep making noise about this. I believe it can be stopped, but only if we all fight it together.
^^^ What KL said
Good work fellas :thumbsu:
As we know, plenty of talk about a possible move to our backyard in the not-to-distant future for the Kangaroos. Full credit to their supporters on here who seem to be organising themselves to make a stand. :thumbsu: I would hate to be in their position with the team I have supported my entire life.
But if the move does go ahead there will be serious consequences for us as well (obviously not to the same extent). I really can't see how anyone believes a second team will survive in SEQ. It is just madness. Brisbane have one of the lowest membership groups in the competition, and the Gold Coast have just been given a new rugby league and basketball licence. How are they to survive without massive concessions and hand-outs? Where are the supporters going to come from? By the sounds of it, a number of Kanga supporters will jump off if they are moved. And traditionally, they haven't been one of the more supported clubs up here.
I would hate to see them at the Coast. It would mean draft concessions for the Roos to tap into the Qld talent, and they would be much more inclined to draft locally. We are disadvantaged enough with the go-home factor and the big Melbourne vultures circling around looking for a bargain.
The Roos will struggle to survive 10 years if they move up here. Why can't the AFL see this? They are hardly going to be better off.
No, you actually have THE lowest membership in the AFL. And this is immediately after a slight drop off after winning 3 flags. If the AFL can't see that it's a non issue, ie-it's not going to work, then they've lost the plot. Which most people know already . But because the arrogant bastards are so used to getting their own way, they won't hear of it.
Limerick
26 Oct 2007, 11:07
I'd be working on 100 million dollars really (said in a dr.evil voice). Realistically you'd be looking at a lot longer to establish a team on the coast than in Brisbane. Let's be conservative and say it took 12 years to establish Brisbane (if indeed we are there yet). I'd say it would take 20 years to establish Gold Coast (if it's not Southport). I'd say you would need more than $5 million a year subsidy. That would equate to what 25% of turnover? I would say that would be a minimum. So my conservative estimate is that it would cost $100 million to establish a Gold Coast club, and even then it probably wouldnt work. Not a very sound investment.
The $5m subsidy is a very conservative estimate. Excluding our badly executed ventures into the interstate markets over the last 10 years we are loosing around $1.5m pa. Most estimates have us dropping 50% of our membership following a relocation. The GC home attendances will be around 11k compared to 25k-30k in Melbourne. The required turnover is around $25m pa. A subsidy of $10m+ pa will be required over the first 10+ years.
This is in addition to the $60m+ that the AFL proposes to spend on the ground and as with all large projects the initial estimates are usually proved low. Therefore we are talking $200m+. Add to this that AFL's proposal to do the same thing with the Bulldogs to W Sydney in around 2015. We are talking $400m+ of funds that could be far better spent.
Good to see the Lions kicking there heels up over talk of North being relocated. I can understand why you guys don't want another team on your patch especially considering Brisbane is still fighting to firmly entrench itself in SEQ. Doesn't take Blind Freddy to work out that its a bad deal for both clubs.
I played my junior footy in Brisbane and while the grass roots support is good, there is no way the area can support two teams at this stage or in any unforseeable future. There may be plenty of Mexicans up there, but its evident by the Lions membership numbers that plenty of them havn't converted to the local team, so there is little evidence to suggest they will jump on.
As Limerick said, money could be much better spent in much better ways.
Lets hope for both clubs sakes that North remains south. :thumbsu:
About my fourth post ever. How exciting :D
I have lived in South-East Queensland all my life and grew up following Rugby League (don’t hold it against me) and I chose to follow AFL against most of my family’s wishes. Over the years I have seen three or four league teams be established and then die either in Brisbane or on the Gold Coast. League has traditionally been more popular and teams have struggled to survive. AFL has grown a lot, but not that much. Anyone who thinks two teams could survive in SE QLD is dreaming
Firstly, you can’t manufacture rivalry. It’s not something you can just pull out of a hat. Placing a team on the Gold Coast will not instantly create the sort of rivalry that exists between the team in Adelaide or Perth. What it comes down to is the fact that Queenslanders usually don’t hate each other. We have an “us versus them” mentality where the “them” people will be anyone we don’t particularly like at the time. Everyone knows that Queenslanders don’t like NSW, and the only good thing about NSW is that it separates us from the Victorians. I tried to hate the Gold Coast Titans at the start of this year, but I just couldn’t do it. I wanted a rivalry but I couldn’t make it happen. I still always found myself supporting the local team over Manly or the Roosters. It will be the same with a QLD team playing Collingwood or Carlton
Secondly, most Queenslanders love a bandwagon. They don’t care who it is or where it is going, but they know it’s where the party is. This is highlighted by the fluctuations in Lions membership numbers. People jumped on quickly in the premiership years when things were going well, but they fell off again when we had a few years without winning. During the years when the Lions were winning you could go to a Broncos game and almost pick any seat you wanted. Then the Lions drop a bit, the Broncos win the premiership and everyone is dusting the mothballs of their old Rugby League jumpers. It doesn’t matter who is winning, as long as someone is winning
The first game of AFL I ever saw where Essendon Vs West Coast when Kevin Sheedy burst out of the coaches box waving his jacket over his head. AFL immediately became an interest in my life and for about two days I was an Essendon supporter. After that I found out there was a local team and I have supported them ever since. I don’t think the Kangaroos on the Coast will bring that many new supporters to the game. Instead they will be fighting with Brisbane for the same supporters. The average fan will continue to swap between whoever is winning and that means at the moment it is the Broncos and Titans against the Lions. The AFL needs another team to balance the ledger. They don’t care who has the support as long as it is an AFL team.
I like the idea of southport having it's own team. I and a lot of my friends go there all the time. food and facilities are great and lots of people plonking money at the pokies means the club is pretty wealthy. It's right next door to griffith uni as well so it would at least attract some curious uni students to an afl game. there's also lots of room to build a new stadium near the highway which i think they should do as carrara is a shithole. A proper queensland derby would attract plenty of attention for both clubs which could translate into more bums on seats. I think it's doable five years from now but only if they build a new stadium.
Warwick
26 Oct 2007, 13:43
I like the idea of southport having it's own team. I and a lot of my friends go there all the time. food and facilities are great and lots of people plonking money at the pokies means the club is pretty wealthy. It's right next door to griffith uni as well so it would at least attract some curious uni students to an afl game. there's also lots of room to build a new stadium near the highway which i think they should do as carrara is a shithole. A proper queensland derby would attract plenty of attention for both clubs which could translate into more bums on seats. I think it's doable five years from now but only if they build a new stadium.
Southport are far wealthy than many AFL clubs, but that's not the point.
A Gold Coast team should incoporate the Gold Coast. It would be like Port Adelaide representing Adelaide.
I agree with Simba above (fantastic post btw). There is very much an "us against them" mentality in Qld. There will never be a bitter rivarly between the Lions and a Gold Coast team. And I don't understand the reasoning behind creating a new team just so there are 2 blockbuster derbies a year. Great, the 2 teams will struggle to make ends meet, but it will be a bumper crowd every time they play.
Southport are far wealthy than many AFL clubs, but that's not the point.
A Gold Coast team should incoporate the Gold Coast. It would be like Port Adelaide representing Adelaide.
I agree with Simba above (fantastic post btw). There is very much an "us against them" mentality in Qld. There will never be a bitter rivarly between the Lions and a Gold Coast team. And I don't understand the reasoning behind creating a new team just so there are 2 blockbuster derbies a year. Great, the 2 teams will struggle to make ends meet, but it will be a bumper crowd every time they play.
I'm not an viability expert or an accountant yet but last I heard the tweed heads/Gold Coast area has 500k people living in it. And I went to the broncs and titans game and it was near sold out and it was the titan's first year. Why can't that type of rivalry be manufactured for the lions and a gold coast team? I think some really clever marketers and make that happen. The two clubs may struggle to sell enough tickets at first but with a solid base of having two afl clubs in SE queensland may really help the code grow that only having one club isn't capable of doing.
I'm also not partial against setting up a setting a separate franchise club to southport. They just need a new stadium maybe somewhere near sanctuary cove to get at the wealthier clientele or maybe nearer tweed so as not to cannibalise much of the lion's members. Either way i'm in support of Demetriou on this one.
You guys should be aware, and if not you should alert everyone at your club to the fact that the AFL has been secretly gathering and hording local corporates and sponsors for the new Gold Coast club, (either Kangaroos relocated or Southport or otherwise) in time for the 2010 season. This is potentially millions of dollars of SEQld money being pick-pocketed from the Brisbane Lions. So it's not just about members or draft concessions. The AFL is not dipping into its own pocket to fund this relocation. It is entirely YOUR money. I'd be pi$$ed off if I was you. Actually I am pi$$ed off but for different reasons.
ReluctantLion
26 Oct 2007, 18:04
But if the move does go ahead there will be serious consequences for us as well (obviously not to the same extent). I really can't see how anyone believes a second team will survive in SEQ. It is just madness. Brisbane have one of the lowest membership groups in the competition, and the Gold Coast have just been given a new rugby league and basketball licence. How are they to survive without massive concessions and hand-outs? Where are the supporters going to come from? By the sounds of it, a number of Kanga supporters will jump off if they are moved. And traditionally, they haven't been one of the more supported clubs up here.
I would hate to see them at the Coast. It would mean draft concessions for the Roos to tap into the Qld talent, and they would be much more inclined to draft locally. We are disadvantaged enough with the go-home factor and the big Melbourne vultures circling around looking for a bargain.
The Roos will struggle to survive 10 years if they move up here. Why can't the AFL see this? They are hardly going to be better off.
Spot on. Though like weevil mentioned the AFL will be determined to ensure it's a success. The more effort and time they put in the greater the problems Brisbane will face as a result.
My gut feel on this is that the television networks are the ones really pushing the agenda. The broadcasting in SEQ is only going to get more lucrative in the coming years and having a locally played game each week will only further that.
Anti Gold Coast
26 Oct 2007, 22:25
It's something that both teams don't like, especially because we'll take away support and drafting capacity from your club. If you, like all Roos supporters want us to stay in Melbourne, please contribute in the term of funds and memberships. I know it's a long shot, but in all fairness the Roos are really desperate, so it'll be greatly appreciated.
I feel kind of dirty for pleading on an opposition board.
Their top priority is to fully embed the AFL ‘brand’ into NSW and QLD. If they can do that, they will consider the league to be in a massively better position than it is now.
It will be a lot more sophisticated than the early days of the Bears and the Swans. They won’t just dump a bunch of players off and leave them to figure it out for themselves.
I think they are very aware that there are going to be a huge load of short and medium term issues. But they have the dollars to back this to the hilt.
There is not really any point about making arguments about the problems it will cause ‘now’; they have their eyes firmly focused on 20 years down the track.
TheBrownDog
27 Oct 2007, 02:38
An article in Today's Australian reveals our clubs thoughts...
Within the Queensland market, a critical shift has taken place which will smooth the Kangaroos' path to the Gold Coast.
Despite expressing concerns as recently as March that the market was not ready to support another AFL team in southeast Queensland, the Brisbane Lions have softened their opposition to the Kangaroos taking up residence in their old stomping ground.
Brisbane chief executive Michael Bowers is preparing a report on the likely economic impact of a Gold Coast team on the Lions.
While agreeing that the Lions would take a "financial hit" from a second Queensland team, he said there were also advantages. These include having a greater AFL presence in the market, improved coverage in the Queensland media, and a local rivalry to stimulate interest.
It will also mean that the Lions will not have to travel for at least one "away" game, with the AFL expected to guarantee the Kangaroos two matches against Brisbane per season in line with West Australian derby matches and South Australian showdowns.
"This is a big strategic issue and the AFL has a good track record in dealing with these kind of issues in the past," Bowers said.
The Lions have been buoyed by their own performance this season, both on and off the field. After forecasting a financial loss, the club is expected to confirm a profit in the next few weeks.
Full article here. (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22653992-5012432,00.html)
Seems a bit strange that Bowers would go out of his way to provide positive comments on the proposed relocation. Reckon the AFL have offered us some sort of incentive to jump on board?
Warwick
27 Oct 2007, 11:23
Serious questions have to be asked of our board if we endorse this move in any way. The Kangaroos moving into our backyard will have massive implications for our footy club.
One extra "away" game close to home is not going to cancel out the negatives of having such competition in a very small market. I can't see any possible benefit of having another club up here in the near future.
Our board should be doing everything they can to stop this move.
Quite odd really...Brisbane become the club with the lowest members in the comp and are not really flying financially a few years after an amazing period of onfield success and somehow another team in the area becomes a viable option.
You guys have got it spot on I think about the support and financial side of things but the local player issue is also a huge one. Sure, we've seen a record (maybe) number of QLD draftees in this years draft but it's only this year (20 years since the team was created) have we seen the Lions get a respectable percentage of local players. Only now are we started to be able to pick up Qld players & remain competitive. Seems to be wasting a whole lot of the wonderful work that has been done in Qld by the Lions & the AFL to get a true local team. Way too soon!
BigCat2
28 Oct 2007, 01:20
Agreed with above sentiments.
While everybody makes it sound pretty by saying that apart from minding their own club, they also have a responsibility to the development of the game...
Forget about that. The Brisbane Lions CEO's only concern should be the welfare of the Brisbane Lions.
Agreed with above sentiments.
While everybody makes it sound pretty by saying that apart from minding their own club, they also have a responsibility to the development of the game...
Forget about that. The Brisbane Lions CEO's only concern should be the welfare of the Brisbane Lions.
Good call...it pains me to say it, but sometimes you just wish that Bowers could be a little more 'McGuire-esque.' Not that any of us should have any sort of love for Eddie, but it's just the way the AFL organisation is as a whole these days. Got to look after your own or the others will eat you alive.
Chasing the Dream
28 Oct 2007, 11:12
The only point that people seem to be missing, or maybe just not paying enough attention to is the fact that the AFL want this to happen, so in some shape or form, come 2010, there WILL be an AFL club based on the Gold Coast.
Don't read into this my support or otherwise on the issue, as I, being a Gold Coaster have some strong ones on this issue, but facts are facts.
The AFL have deemed the Gold Coast as a market where, in the long term they can have a successful (off field) club. In 2007, they dipped their toe into the market and were suprised. The crowd figures were OK, but I think that they would have been surprised by the level of interest in the code the Kangaroos brought. The Kangaroos pushed into the local market through junior clubs and schools and this was very well recieved.
Now we all know that any Gold Coast team would need massive funding for a fair few years, there is no denying this, but the AFL also know that the region will be the fifth biggest population in Australia within 10 years (if population growth continues along current trends).
We have heard those talk of Western Sydney being a better alternative, but really is it? Would the AFL have not considered this? Western Sydney is an entrenched market in Rugby League , the population growth in this area is hardly suited to AFL, as the growth in this area would not be from Victorians or South Australians moving to the area, as many Gold Coast new comers are.
Should it be the Kangaroos? Should it be Southport? All questions for another time, but as Lions supporters, I think it best we come to the understanding that this is going to happen.
Maybe, for once, Bowers has read the writing on the wall, and decided fighting the establishment may not be the best course of action.:o
Yep spot on CtD.
The AFL will manufacture the success of the Gold Coast Kangaroos. They will provide them with the dollars, infrastructure and on field concessions to allow them to hit the ground running.
They will be a powerful, successful side. The AFL will not care how many dollars it will take to make it happen.
giantroo
28 Oct 2007, 16:28
Yep spot on CtD.
The AFL will manufacture the success of the Gold Coast Kangaroos. They will provide them with the dollars, infrastructure and on field concessions to allow them to hit the ground running.
They will be a powerful, successful side. The AFL will not care how many dollars it will take to make it happen.
Yet, the AFL has come out and said that they will stop giving out those things by 2014. How the hell are we meant to be able to establish our selves by 2014 if we do move. Sydney are still getting help because they are still unstable. You'd expect us to be stable and financialy running in 4 years? I highly doubt it unless they pour in 60 million every year in those 4 years which then again, i highly doubt would happen.
Yet, the AFL has come out and said that they will stop giving out those things by 2014. How the hell are we meant to be able to establish our selves by 2014 if we do move. Sydney are still getting help because they are still unstable. You'd expect us to be stable and financialy running in 4 years? I highly doubt it unless they pour in 60 million every year in those 4 years which then again, i highly doubt would happen.The GC will be the golden child. They will be way, way too important to the AFL for them to be left out to dry.
They can say 2014 now. But as you know, there can be a big difference between what they say and what they do.
giantroo
28 Oct 2007, 19:26
But as you know, there can be a big difference between what they say and what they do.
yeh, plenty of lies.
yioughtta
28 Oct 2007, 22:48
Meh.
One minute it is 2015 they want a team there, then it is 2010.
One minute we have three years to decide our future, next minute we have till December.
Anyone who puts any value on the words of Demetriou Inc. should really reconsider their position.
Chasing the Dream
29 Oct 2007, 11:30
Meh.
One minute it is 2015 they want a team there, then it is 2010.
One minute we have three years to decide our future, next minute we have till December.
Anyone who puts any value on the words of Demetriou Inc. should really reconsider their position.
It is not his words that worry me, it is his actions.
You can read between the lines my position on NORTH MELBOURNE coming to the Gold Coast on a permament basis I am sure, but when you see the push the AFL is making with North Melbourne, from the employment of staff to the change over of the CEO of the Sharks just so the two parties will talk again, it is painfully obvious that things are happening.
The Flying Belgian
29 Oct 2007, 11:42
Can I ask a question, prehaps it's been answered before, but why the draft concession? Are they not expecting all of the players to come north? Unless this entails the same concession we currently receive for the rookie draft, which if the move happened would be fair enough.
I'm pretty much resigned that it will happen. The only thing that will stop it now are the North supporters. But I fear for both clubs' cases that it won't be enough.
Chasing the Dream
29 Oct 2007, 11:46
Can I ask a question, prehaps it's been answered before, but why the draft concession? Are they not expecting all of the players to come north? Unless this entails the same concession we currently receive for the rookie draft, which if the move happened would be fair enough.
I'm pretty much resigned that it will happen. The only thing that will stop it now are the North supporters. But I fear for both clubs' cases that it won't be enough.
Arrh Belgian, the thinker:D Very good question.:thumbsu:
I would imagine that most North supporters would be able to tell you that there are currently no North players contracted past 2009. I stand to be corrected on this, but am 99% sure.
It opens the door for the NMFC board to say they are going and open negotiations with the players from there.:(
Seems a bit strange that Bowers would go out of his way to provide positive comments on the proposed relocation. Reckon the AFL have offered us some sort of incentive to jump on board?
Not sure. I suspect it is for two reasons. One is that we've seen the writing on the wall and that there is no use being a conscientous objector to a pre-ordained decision. North fans are entitled to fight until the death but, as a club, we're probably not going to change anyone's minds.
The other is that, genuinely, a 2nd team in Qld is not all doom and gloom. There are some positives, some of which Bowers alludes to. Others include:
- having an additional strong voice to lobby the AFL on Qld specific issues like the go-home factor and talent retention
- the likelihood of a Qld based commissioner
- the shared load in terms of code development
I feel for North fans but am not as fearful as other Lions supporters if a Gold Coast team comes in. I look at the Melbourne Storm as the closest comparison. Locating a team within a (relatively) small supporter base can work, as long as there is someone to pick up the bill at the end of the month. Coupled with strong support from the governing body, then things like membership numbers, TV coverage, quality of home ground etc become almost irrelevant.
I am certainly not a rabid supporter of the proposal but am not sure that it is a cut and dried disaster for our club.
Can I ask a question, prehaps it's been answered before, but why the draft concession? Are they not expecting all of the players to come north? Unless this entails the same concession we currently receive for the rookie draft, which if the move happened would be fair enough.
I'm pretty much resigned that it will happen. The only thing that will stop it now are the North supporters. But I fear for both clubs' cases that it won't be enough.I’d say they are expecting the club to fully relocate and all the players to come.
I think by far the best way the club can be marketed is if it is successful. No point dragging them all this way if they are just going to be a solid side, the AFL will want them to hit the ground running as a cracking good side.
Cousin Jed
31 Oct 2007, 22:49
I suspect Bowers saw the writing on the wall, nothing in his mind that could be done.
lionbear
31 Oct 2007, 23:14
Interesting day of events to say the least.
So I think it is either going to be the Southport Sharks or the Gold Coast Kangaroos becoming the 2nd Queensland club come 2010.
Interesting the AFL didn't go for the idea of 8 games played on the Gold Coast by the roos, could be a way of dipping the toe in before jumping in the pool. I guess this opens the door for Southport and they have been banging on it for 10 years. 30th November will be a day to mark on our summer calender.
Interesting the AFL didn't go for the idea of 8 games played on the Gold Coast by the roos, could be a way of dipping the toe in before jumping in the pool. I guess this opens the door for Southport and they have been banging on it for 10 years. 30th November will be a day to mark on our summer calender.
Maybe they wanted to preserve the integrity of the draw ?:confused:
notting18
31 Oct 2007, 23:25
Maybe they wanted to preserve the integrity of the draw ?:confused:
Integrity and the draw?!:eek:
TheBrownDog
31 Oct 2007, 23:30
Putting aside how it effects us as a club, I just feel sorry for the North Melbourne supporters for the horrible way they've been treated by their own board and the AFL.
We should be fighting it on the principle that if it was us on the line, we'd like other clubs to support us.
lionbear
31 Oct 2007, 23:50
It's going to be the biggest 30 days the Kangaroos have gone through off the field in their history.
With the 2008 memberships being available the Kangaroos will be able to gauge where they are at. Any North person who doesn't sign in the next 30 days to let the club know how many members they have if they stay in North is not a True North supporter.
I hope they can survive at Arden Street but it is going to be a long tough fight.
It would be interesting to know Southport's position on all this.
TheBrownDog
31 Oct 2007, 23:58
It's going to be the biggest 30 days the Kangaroos have gone through off the field in their history.
With the 2008 memberships being available the Kangaroos will be able to gauge where they are at. Any North person who doesn't sign in the next 30 days to let the club know how many members they have if they stay in North is not a True North supporter.
I hope they can survive at Arden Street but it is going to be a long tough fight.
It would be interesting to know Southport's position on all this.
Wonder how long till John Howard and Kevin Rudd step in to be the heroes of the day?
lionbear
1 Nov 2007, 09:59
Wonder how long till John Howard and Kevin Rudd step in to be the heroes of the day?
AD V James Brayshaw (The Great Debate), would be interesting to see how the worm goes with this one:D
AD V James Brayshaw, would be interesting to see how the worm goes with this one:D
Andy IS the worm! :p
By the way thanks for the words of support guys, much appreciated. :thumbsu:
Wonder how long till John Howard and Kevin Rudd step in to be the heroes of the day?
Good call
Judging by the most recent reports of the Roos vs the AFL, I think Bowers has seen the tide coming and decided to swim with it. By the sounds of http://afl.com.au/Season2007/News/NewsArticle/tabid/208/Default.aspx?newsId=52916 there's going to be a team there regardless of whether we like it (Roos or some new team), so our best bet may be to get the AFL to acknowledge its impact on us and see what support we can get out of it. It'll make a nice change from the fines, corporate showdowns, etc, in previous years.
TheBrownDog
2 Nov 2007, 01:40
This is the package the AFL has offered to Roos. Its a doozy.
■A written guarantee of between seven and eight home-and-away games in Melbourne.
■A special deal for the club's Melbourne members.
■A promise to ensure the club's on-field success in the short-term via priority picks, further potential to pick up uncontracted players and a Gold Coast zone.
■Continuing support of Arden Street as a permanent Melbourne training base for the club and the wider community.
■State-of-the art training facilities and an AFL-funded marketing team to promote the team in the increasingly tough Gold Coast market.
■ Will underwrite the club's 4.5 million dollar debt
■ 3 million dollars allocated to buy-out shareholders.
SweetLeftFoot
2 Nov 2007, 04:13
Basically, they want us up there because they need an existing list, prefarably a decent one.
They learned from the Bears debacle that cobbling together a team of over the hill, were never good enoughs and chaps with pressing non-football related reasons to leave Melbourne was a disaster.
We made a PF this season missing our full forward and have a good young list. Chuck a couple of priority picks at us, and first dibs on uncontracted players for a few years, and there'll be an absolute powerhouse for GC types to jump onto.
But it won't be North, it'll be the GC Kangaroos, and it will have bugger all connection to Melbourne.
Out of curiousity, how many of our current list hail from the Gold Coast? Especially those off our rookie list.
LuckyLuke
2 Nov 2007, 09:22
This is the package the AFL has offered to Roos. Its a doozy.
Interesting that they can be guaranteed between seven and eight home-and-away games in Melbourne, yet the Lions can't.
:thumbsd:
Pedro the Lion
2 Nov 2007, 11:55
Interesting article in the Australian today...
Titans object to Gold Coast turf war
Print Dan Koch | November 02, 2007
GOLD COAST TITANS managing director Michael Searle has slammed the AFL's approach to having a team placed on the Gold Coast by 2010, saying it reeked of arrogance and showed little regard for the local community.
Having overseen the Titans' stunning debut season, which saw the new club record the second-best home crowd average and merchandise sales in the NRL, Searle said his club had little to fear from AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou's announcement on Wednesday that either the Kangaroos or a newly created 17th team would have a permanent home on the Gold Coast within two years.
Already contracted to play seven games at Carrara Stadium over the next two seasons, the Kangaroos have been given just 30 days to agree to a proposal from the AFL to relocate to the tourist strip by 2010.
However, Searle said such an uncompromising, sledgehammer style was unlikely to win over fans on the Gold Coast who he claimed were already cynical about the AFL's motives for having a team in the region.
"What the AFL clearly doesn't understand is the Titans' entrance into the NRL wasn't simply a spur of the moment idea we had one day.
"It was the culmination of seven years of community-driven support to have an NRL team based here," Searle said.
"The people here can see straight through this. They see this as a strategic reaction by the AFL to counter the success of the Titans.
"They saw the Kangaroos playing games here this year as an attempt by the AFL to run interference on our first season and they will treat this latest announcement with the same cynicism."
Searle said it was insulting for the AFL to think it could simply place a team on the Gold Coast and expect fans to follow.
"You have to do much more to win over the Gold Coast market than simply getting a team and slapping a Gold Coast badge on them," Searle, who grew up in the area, said.
"You need to engage the local community otherwise it will simply collapse, as we have seen happen here many times before.
"What the AFL is trying to do reeks of arrogance."
Searle said the arrival of a second AFL team in southeast Queensland would not cost the Titans a single cent in revenue or corporate support but predicted it would cut into the market share of the Brisbane Lions.
Lions coach Leigh Matthews has been an outspoken critic of the AFL's attempts to move a second team into Queensland, adamant the region simply could not financially support a second team.
However, with the AFL having made its position clear, Lions chief executive Michael Bowers said the club was now preparing to meet any invader head-on. "The AFL's decision gives us some clarity and an unequivocal timeline to work within, so now we say 'bring it on'," Bowers said.
"We have until 2010 to shore up our patch and we will be working extremely hard as an organisation to do just that.
"When the new team does arrive we will get straight into it, competing both on and off the field and hopefully we can make life very difficult for them.
"I don't think anyone is under any illusion that it won't be a big challenge.
"But, from our perspective, there are certainly plenty of positives about having another team based here in Queensland.
"First and foremost there will be an extra team here which will help create a local rivalry as well as increase the overall coverage of the game. You will also have more people living and breathing AFL footy and that has a positive flow-on effect."
lionbear
2 Nov 2007, 12:39
Interesting article. I hope the Kangaroos stay in Melbourne but I think you will find the AFL have put more then 12 months thought into this. The AFL is investing alot of money into making it work (With stadium development). Will it work or not I don't know but if the NRL didn't think other codes weren't going to head up there that is not thinking the situation through.
TheBrownDog
2 Nov 2007, 15:36
Out of curiousity, how many of our current list hail from the Gold Coast? Especially those off our rookie list.
Surprisingly few actually.
Seniors:
Daniel Merrett (Surfers Paradise FC, Southport FC)
Wayde Mills (Southport FC) - technically is from NSW though.
Rookies
Haydn Kiel (Southport FC)
Joel Tippett (Southport FC)
They learned from the Bears debacle that cobbling together a team of over the hill, were never good enoughs and chaps with pressing non-football related reasons to leave Melbourne was a disaster.
While I agree, there are going to be a couple of differences between a new Gold Coast side and when the Bears started up:
* The AFL is clearly willing to spend/lose a lot of money whereas the VFL were not
* In a national competition, the notion of playing interstate is not as foreign * There is no disconnection for the players' main source of income, as there was when footy was barely semi-professional
* As professionals, players can be more easily swayed to relocate if the price is right
* Although it does not always seem like this, the AFL is now the predominant force in footy politics and has a far greater control of the clubs
Not saying that it would work, but creating a competitive team from scratch will be a whole lot easier than it was in the lead up to the 1987 season.
lionbear
2 Nov 2007, 16:38
With the Carrara stadium being done up for AFl a question I have is.
When the Gabba development was done was there an Agreement that a second Queensland AFL club would play out of the Gabba if there was one?
If yes what will the Gabba trust think of the happenings of the last week?
TheBrownDog
2 Nov 2007, 16:41
With the Carrara stadium being done up for AFl a question I have is.
When the Gabba development was done was there an Agreement that a second Queensland AFL club would play out of the Gabba if there was one?
If yes what will the Gabba trust think of the happenings of the last week?
I think I recall somehting about all Queensland finals are to be played at the Gabba.
Could be wrong though.
lionbear
2 Nov 2007, 16:46
I think I recall somehting about all Queensland finals are to be played at the Gabba.
Could be wrong though.
I am pretty sure there is something in place for the Gabba if a 2nd Queensland club was to come along. Imagine if a Gold Coast club in 2010 qualifies for it's 1st home final and discovers it has to play at the Gabba.
TheBrownDog
2 Nov 2007, 16:49
I am pretty sure there is something in place for the Gabba if a 2nd Queensland club was to come along. Imagine if a Gold Coast club in 2010 qualifies for it's 1st home final and discovers it has to play at the Gabba.
Imagine if a non-Victorian team qualifies for a home preliminary final and has to play at the MCG. Could cost them a flag.
Not that this could ever happen. ;)
Surprisingly few actually.
Seniors:
Daniel Merrett (Surfers Paradise FC, Southport FC)
Wayde Mills (Southport FC) - technically is from NSW though.
Rookies
Haydn Kiel (Southport FC)
Joel Tippett (Southport FC)
Thanks. Merrett was the one I was thinking of, that was making me wonder if there was more. I guess this makes me slightly less concerned about the Kangaroos potentially establishing a Gold Coast "zone" selection(s).
lionbear
2 Nov 2007, 16:55
Imagine if a non-Victorian team qualifies for a home preliminary final and has to play at the MCG. Could cost them a flag.
Not that this could ever happen. ;)
I was going to say something similar but bit my tung:p
This thread is proof that a lot of Brissy supporters have become spoiled by our success of the past. Not to be selfish I'm all for an AFL club on the Gold Coast and we have no right denying them an opportunity. I hear lots of future predictions of Armageddons if the Gold Coast goes ahead, like it's set in stone!
Fact is we have no idea of what the future will hold or bring and what influences will come along to change it. So ppl stop crapping on like you already know the outcome.............:mad:
A real Lions rivalry would probably do AFL in Qld a world of good.
Go the GOLD COAST WHOEVERS!! :thumbsu:
TheBrownDog
2 Nov 2007, 17:38
This thread is proof that a lot of Brissy supporters have become spoiled by our success of the past. Not to be selfish I'm all for an AFL club on the Gold Coast and we have no right denying them an opportunity. I hear lots of future predictions of Armageddons if the Gold Coast goes ahead, like it's set in stone!
Fact is we have no idea of what the future will hold or bring and what influences will come along to change it. So ppl stop crapping on like you already know the outcome.............:mad:
A real Lions rivalry would probably do AFL in Qld a world of good.
Go the GOLD COAST WHOEVERS!! :thumbsu:
Wow, so everyone else's opinion is classed as "crapping on like you already know the outcome"
But then you go on to make your own claims about what will happen.
Bravo!
Cousin Jed
2 Nov 2007, 17:41
This thread is proof that a lot of Brissy supporters have become spoiled by our success of the past. Not to be selfish I'm all for an AFL club on the Gold Coast and we have no right denying them an opportunity. I hear lots of future predictions of Armageddons if the Gold Coast goes ahead, like it's set in stone!
Fact is we have no idea of what the future will hold or bring and what influences will come along to change it. So ppl stop crapping on like you already know the outcome.............:mad:
A real Lions rivalry would probably do AFL in Qld a world of good.
Go the GOLD COAST WHOEVERS!! :thumbsu:
I have no doubt that a team on the Gold Coast will cost millions and millions and millions. There is no hope of it being successful in the short to medium term IMHO.
None.
Which begs the question, why the hurry?
As for the bolded part, I think a few Kangaroos supporters might take exception to that comment.
With the Carrara stadium being done up for AFl a question I have is.
When the Gabba development was done was there an Agreement that a second Queensland AFL club would play out of the Gabba if there was one?
If yes what will the Gabba trust think of the happenings of the last week?
I think it's till 2015. Although the reality would be that they'd have to renegotiate. The gabba couldn't lose it's only decent tennant and main source of income.
I remember when Broncos were trying to leave ANZ for Suncorp they were 'officialy' tied into a lease but they got out of it as Jim Soorly wasnt going to the one to hold them to it.
Interesting article in the Australian today...
I find the comments by this Searle fellow quite interesting.
If Mr Searle isn't at all worried about the impact of an AFL club on the Gold Coast, why is he making so much noise condemning the proposal.?
"Arrogant, cynical, uncompromising".......blah blah blah.
What does he care, if all it's going to do is to "cut into the market share of the Brisbane Lions"?
You'd think the MD of the Titans would just keep quiet(and gleefully rub his hands together) instead of going into a lengthy diatribe to the press......if he really wasn't concerned at all.
Besides, who is this guy to be counseling the AFL about all the pitfalls of footy on the Coast?
Just because the NRL stuffed it up umpteen times (before finally getting it right) doesn't mean another code has to.
Wow, so everyone else's opinion is classed as "crapping on like you already know the outcome"
But then you go on to make your own claims about what will happen.
Bravo!
"probably" doesn't mean I'm convinced of that outcome though.
The fact is we don't know what will happen for sure, no use burning it before seeing if it's operational.
TheBrownDog
2 Nov 2007, 18:13
"probably" doesn't mean I'm convinced of that outcome though.
The fact is we don't know what will happen for sure, no use burning it before seeing if it's operational.
I could point a shotgun at my face and pull the trigger, because I don't know that it will kill me for certain.
That was either a really apt analogy, or completely shit. I'm not sure.
Brain is too fried from studying.
I have no doubt that a team on the Gold Coast will cost millions and millions and millions. There is no hope of it being successful in the short to medium term IMHO.
What is the best measure of success? Based on the comment bolded, you can't be talking about on field success. Throw enough money and give enough advantages to the Mayne Tigers and they'll win AFL premierships.
I think it is close to being beyond doubt that the AFL's financial commitment to a Gold Coast side (in whatever form) is going to be immense. As the Storm have shown in the NRL, you don't need to be a viable club in the traditional sense in order to survive or even thrive. Money, support from the competition owners and some good people is pretty much all you need.
Cousin Jed
2 Nov 2007, 19:59
What is the best measure of success? Based on the comment bolded, you can't be talking about on field success. Throw enough money and give enough advantages to the Mayne Tigers and they'll win AFL premierships.
I think it is close to being beyond doubt that the AFL's financial commitment to a Gold Coast side (in whatever form) is going to be immense. As the Storm have shown in the NRL, you don't need to be a viable club in the traditional sense in order to survive or even thrive. Money, support from the competition owners and some good people is pretty much all you need.
That's always been my point. It will basically be the AFL Roos, based on the Gold Coast. Pretty Ridiculous really.
MaroonBoy
5 Nov 2007, 21:17
Just caught up with this post - lots of very interesting and insightful postings. Thanks to all who have contributed.
One aspect of a shift to the Gold Coast by the Roos that's been overlooked in this post is its potential effect on Victorian Lions supporters and memberships. As part of the merger deal Vic Lions supporters were promised a minimum of six games in Melbourne and in the early years of the merger we usually got seven or eight matches. Now the numbers have dropped to five once again. Its one more reason for Victorian based supporters NOT to take out a membership.
Obviously if the numbers of clubs in Melbourne drop, then the numbers of home games played there drops too. Lets say that the AFL get there way with relocating North. Going on the talk from AFL HQ in recent years they'll then target a club to move to the western suburbs of Sydney - this is a distinct possibility in 5 or 10 years (most likely the Western Bulldogs). This will leave just 7 clubs in Melbourne. With the unevenness of the draw, there's the distinct possibility that with just 7 clubs left, only 3 or 4 Lions games would then be played in Melbourne each year.
Such a scenario is likely to have serious consequences for the Lions. Membership in Melbourne would drop and there'd be real problems trying to build beyond the core supporters in Victoria, at least 90% of whom are ex-Fitzroy people.
During the triple premiership years Leigh Matthews and numerous players made the point that having a strong Melbourne support base gave the club a distinct advantage as it felt like they had two home crowds - one up north and one down south. As it should be!
Some of you up in Brisbane may say 'So what if they only play a handful of games in Victoria?'. Others will understand that for the Lions to thrive, the club needs to be fighting for the rights of the branch of the Lions family based in Victoria. North may end up going to the GC and Brisbane officials may even support such a move. What the club should never do is support a drop in the number of games played in Melbourne. :mad:
About my fourth post ever. How exciting :D
I have lived in South-East Queensland all my life and grew up following Rugby League (don’t hold it against me) and I chose to follow AFL against most of my family’s wishes. Over the years I have seen three or four league teams be established and then die either in Brisbane or on the Gold Coast. League has traditionally been more popular and teams have struggled to survive. AFL has grown a lot, but not that much. Anyone who thinks two teams could survive in SE QLD is dreaming
Firstly, you can’t manufacture rivalry. It’s not something you can just pull out of a hat. Placing a team on the Gold Coast will not instantly create the sort of rivalry that exists between the team in Adelaide or Perth. What it comes down to is the fact that Queenslanders usually don’t hate each other. We have an “us versus them” mentality where the “them” people will be anyone we don’t particularly like at the time. Everyone knows that Queenslanders don’t like NSW, and the only good thing about NSW is that it separates us from the Victorians. I tried to hate the Gold Coast Titans at the start of this year, but I just couldn’t do it. I wanted a rivalry but I couldn’t make it happen. I still always found myself supporting the local team over Manly or the Roosters. It will be the same with a QLD team playing Collingwood or Carlton
Secondly, most Queenslanders love a bandwagon. They don’t care who it is or where it is going, but they know it’s where the party is. This is highlighted by the fluctuations in Lions membership numbers. People jumped on quickly in the premiership years when things were going well, but they fell off again when we had a few years without winning. During the years when the Lions were winning you could go to a Broncos game and almost pick any seat you wanted. Then the Lions drop a bit, the Broncos win the premiership and everyone is dusting the mothballs of their old Rugby League jumpers. It doesn’t matter who is winning, as long as someone is winning
The first game of AFL I ever saw where Essendon Vs West Coast when Kevin Sheedy burst out of the coaches box waving his jacket over his head. AFL immediately became an interest in my life and for about two days I was an Essendon supporter. After that I found out there was a local team and I have supported them ever since. I don’t think the Kangaroos on the Coast will bring that many new supporters to the game. Instead they will be fighting with Brisbane for the same supporters. The average fan will continue to swap between whoever is winning and that means at the moment it is the Broncos and Titans against the Lions. The AFL needs another team to balance the ledger. They don’t care who has the support as long as it is an AFL team.
Fantastic post.
TheBrownDog
7 Nov 2007, 12:30
Some of you up in Brisbane may say 'So what if they only play a handful of games in Victoria?'. Others will understand that for the Lions to thrive, the club needs to be fighting for the rights of the branch of the Lions family based in Victoria. North may end up going to the GC and Brisbane officials may even support such a move. What the club should never do is support a drop in the number of games played in Melbourne. :mad:
You'll find that the vast majority of Brisbane Lions supporters who post here are very sympathetic to our Fitzroy brothers and sisters, and are equally miffed about the AFL's treatment of our Victorian supporter base.
lionbear
7 Nov 2007, 13:29
I think as a Victorian based Lions supporter it is time for the club to sit down with the league and have on paper exactly what our Victorian rights are for the future games here. Like when the merger first went through we knew we had 6 to 7 games each season guaranteed. With North or another club about to start on the Coast it would be good for the board to be able to say to us we have sat down with the League and we are guaranteed the following for our Vic Lions supporters for the next ten years.
DannyJames13
7 Nov 2007, 16:20
But if the move does go ahead there will be serious consequences for us as well (obviously not to the same extent). I really can't see how anyone believes a second team will survive in SEQ. It is just madness. Brisbane have one of the lowest membership groups in the competition, and the Gold Coast have just been given a new rugby league and basketball licence. How are they to survive without massive concessions and hand-outs? Where are the supporters going to come from? By the sounds of it, a number of Kanga supporters will jump off if they are moved. And traditionally, they haven't been one of the more supported clubs up here.
I would hate to see them at the Coast. It would mean draft concessions for the Roos to tap into the Qld talent, and they would be much more inclined to draft locally. We are disadvantaged enough with the go-home factor and the big Melbourne vultures circling around looking for a bargain.
The Roos will struggle to survive 10 years if they move up here. Why can't the AFL see this? They are hardly going to be better off.
If anything is going to kill off the problem of the go home factor it will be more football in SEQ.
AFL is far, far, far stronger in QLD now than when the AFL tried to introduce the Brisbane Lions. Introducing an AFL Team into a state where basically only Rugby League is played now thats a joke, the Brisbane AFL team will never last:rolleyes:.
You asked "How are they to survive without massive concessions and hand-outs?" Answer. They probably won't. But they will survive because they WILL get massive hand outs.
A gold coast team will be great for AFL in QLD, which will be great for the Brisbane Lions.
LionsTouch
7 Nov 2007, 19:09
No to North Melbourne moving here! Queensland is not an open wallet to keep Victorian teams alive. AFL take your lack of consideration and foresight somewhere else!!! :mad::mad::thumbsd:
If the vics can't keep them up, what chance do QLD'ers have?! Victorians will be aware of their history and respect it. Queenslanders will just think of them as that 'foreign' team. And besides, anything that gets in the way of our membership numbers is guaranteed to be bad for Us.
No to the Kangaroos moving here, but yes to a Gold Coast team.
I would love to see some local rivalry, and more exposure for the region, both to other regions and our own people on the Gold Coast.
I think it would actually increase Brisbane's mermbership, as Lions fans of old rejoin with renewed interest due to more local relevance, and are more likely to stay on for the same reasons, plus a real rivalry. Surely me and MickZu aren't the only ones? (sorry if I missed you, let me know if i did!)
You'll find that the vast majority of Brisbane Lions supporters who post here are very sympathetic to our Fitzroy brothers and sisters, and are equally miffed about the AFL's treatment of our Victorian supporter base.
At least I agree with that :)
lionslady
8 Nov 2007, 19:49
I live on the other coast and would hate it if a club was going to move up here. With the titans last yr and now another AFL club I think that it is just to much and plus i think the lions should just stay a state team. They can just move to NSW.
lionbear
9 Nov 2007, 07:40
In today's Herald Sun Glenn Archer has written the comment...
"People can say whatever they want about there being a bit of South Melbourne in the Sydney Swans and some of Fitzroy in the Brisbane Lions. To me, there is no South Melbourne and no Fitzroy and thats why we need to fight as hard as we can to keep North Melbourne in North Melbourne."
Interesting comment which I took notice of. As an X Bears supporter I can't really comment but have always felt the club has tried very hard to keep as much of Fitzroy's history as possible. Do old Fitzroy supporters agree with this comment or think it is not correct in our situation.
I know Arch is trying to get his point of saving the club across and I hope he is successful it was just a comment which I thought we could discuss.
Yep, Archer's comments are water off a duck's back - Fitzroy's history etc will always lives on in Brisbane and as a proud Fitzroy person for 16 years prior to the merger, there is really nothing more that Brisbane could do to honour the club - except a guarantee of 7 games in Melbourne.
I always find anyone who has an opinion on Fitzroy is niave and uneducated about how much of Fitzroy lives on. And typically they are always a North supporter or someone from another struggling club. You never seem to hear comments that Brisbane never did enough from the majority of non-Victorian clubs including Brisbane and Sydney/South supporters.
Archer wouldn't have a clue - check out RoyLions analysis, about two weeks ago in response to North supporters crying foul that a relocated club means death.
lionbear
6 Dec 2007, 17:19
Looks like North have rejected the Coast.
What does it mean for us Lions supporters?
Will we be starting a rivalry with Southport starting 2010?
It's interesting reading some of the comments on the main board & in the media. It seems to be taken as a sure thing that if North don't move then the AFL will introduce a 17th team. It was pointed out by a couple of posters though that the clubs would have to vote on such a move. Does anyone know the specifics on this? And do you see the Lion's going one way or another?
The biggest concern for the club IMO would have to be the potential for local zone concessions (or whatever their called). Lion's worked very hard to get their % of local players even to a half respectable level, a very hard thing to do while trying to remain competitive. Would hope very much that any new club wouldn't cause this to stagnate.
TheBrownDog
6 Dec 2007, 18:57
The Lions would vote in favour of a 17th team, I have no doubt.
The AFL will ensure as the only other team in the region, that the Lions are on board.
It's as simple as that.
It would be tragic to see all the quality SEQ talent wind up at Gold Coast though, and the AFL needs to make sure that we are looked after.
campbell
6 Dec 2007, 19:00
The Lions would vote in favour of a 17th team, I have no doubt.
The AFL will ensure as the only other team in the region, that the Lions are on board.
It's as simple as that.
It would be tragic to see all the quality SEQ talent wind up at Gold Coast though, and the AFL needs to make sure that we are looked after.
Yep.
AFL would know already, that they have the numbers.
The clubs have already voted for a 17th licence once, why not now?
Also, Sharks are a very profitable club, so look like making a real go if it, and not needing AFL assistance, like some clubs.
TheBrownDog
6 Dec 2007, 19:10
How will the 17th team work though?
Will it be like the Bears where every team has to provide two players?
Bobby Beecroft
6 Dec 2007, 19:13
Yep.
AFL would know already, that they have the numbers.
The clubs have already voted for a 17th licence once, why not now?
Also, Sharks are a very profitable club, so look like making a real go if it, and not needing AFL assistance, like some clubs.
By AFL assistance I gather your talking purely on a monetary basis.
Pretty sure 75% of clubs, that is 12/16 would need to vote YES to it. I'm not so sure that it would be a given, although enventually the AFL would talk them over.
Going to be an interesting 12 months ahead on this subject.
I just feel a little worried about the Kanga's future & the position they will be in 2-3 years down the track.
TheBrownDog
6 Dec 2007, 19:16
By AFL assistance I gather your talking purely on a monetary basis. .
Absolutely.
Just a nice $1,000,000 a year "market adjustment" cash donation to the Lions for the first 10 years of the Gold Coast Clubs existance should do the trick.
campbell
6 Dec 2007, 19:35
By AFL assistance I gather your talking purely on a monetary basis.
Pretty sure 75% of clubs, that is 12/16 would need to vote YES to it. I'm not so sure that it would be a given, although enventually the AFL would talk them over.
Going to be an interesting 12 months ahead on this subject.
I just feel a little worried about the Kanga's future & the position they will be in 2-3 years down the track.
I just cant see them being around in 2 years.
They have this huge debt,and have had over 10 years to solve their financial problems, and still cant.
TheBrownDog
6 Dec 2007, 20:44
I just cant see them being around in 2 years.
They have this huge debt,and have had over 10 years to solve their financial problems, and still cant.
They are meeting their debt payments though, they aren't insolvent. Don't believe everything you read in the papers.
Brayshaw knows they'll never compete with the Essendons or Collingwoods, but they can restructure the operation to be relatively self-sufficient.