Cousins could have been a Saint this year

[Qsaint]

Deal was done it fell through at the last moment when Woosha pulled the Pin

Would have been interesting

[BrianSpeaking]

Deal was done it fell through at the last moment when Woosha pulled the Pin

Would have been interesting
An absolute, unadulterated lie. We dont want him anywhere near Melbourne or Victoria for obvious reasons.

[Qsaint]

An absolute, unadulterated lie. We dont want him anywhere near Melbourne or Victoria for obvious reasons.

Ricky Nixon said it in an interview today

[dan warna]

yep was posted early on that rumour, pick 9 and a player like monty.

thank GOODNESS it fell through.

we would have lost a player, lost pick 9 and cousins dereigstered and wacked on drugs.

:rolleyes:

FFS what were st kilda thinking?

still WCE would have been laughing scoring a starting 22 player of quality with 10 years ahaed of him, another top 10 pick and ditching a hopeless waste of money.

[SS_Fury]

whose monty?

[dan warna]

whose monty?

montagna, he's certainly not in cousins league, but certainly a player who out peformed hayes, and dal santo at st kilda in 07. probably close to our top 10 and working on improving. maybe as good as embley in the near future, or better.

sheedy rated him highly and tried to get him over several times.

idiotic st kilda fans have been wanting to trade him for a round 2 pick for the past 4 seasons.:rolleyes:

[SS_Fury]

ah ok thanks. I always thought cuz was looking to move but woosha talked him out of it. Didnt realize it was this close to being done. I dare say it would have been great for us, having 5 picks in the top 22. Would you really wanna re-unite cuz with gardiner? eeesh!

[dan warna]

ah ok thanks. I always thought cuz was looking to move but woosha talked him out of it. Didnt realize it was this close to being done. I dare say it would have been great for us, having 5 picks in the top 22. Would you really wanna re-unite cuz with gardiner? eeesh!

me? no, I think cousins is very lucky the AFL is trying to sweep this under the carpet.

I would hate to have cousins in our club and frankly not too keen on paying for gardiners medical bills either.

but others are creaming themselves over cousins:rolleyes:

[Atomboy]

yep was posted early on that rumour, pick 9 and a player like monty.



Find it very hard to believe that:

i) we offered that deal
ii) West Coast knocked it back


Cousins is 30 next year with 2-3 years left (if lucky) and we wanted to swap him for a valuable running player with 6-7 years left AND our first pick ??.

Don't believe that for a second, more likely we offered one or the other in my opinion.

[dan warna]

Find it very hard to believe that:

i) we offered that deal
ii) West Coast knocked it back


Cousins is 30 next year with 2-3 years left (if lucky) and we wanted to swap him for a valuable running player with 6-7 years left AND our first pick ??.

Don't believe that for a second, more likely we offered one or the other in my opinion.


could be, i only heard this from forums. i dont have first hand or even second hand knowledge of this.

[DenningMR]

Can someone please write what RIcky Nixon actually said.

I am flabbergasted!

[Persevering Saint]

Ah, Ben Cousins...


... The new Wayne Carey....

[Kildonan]

Can someone please write what RIcky Nixon actually said.

I am flabbergasted!

AFL could act on Cousins (http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/afl-could-act-on-cousins/2007/10/25/1192941242859.html)
Caroline Wilson | October 26, 2007

It also emerged that Cousins looked at a move to St Kilda at the end of the 2007 season, a move thwarted on the eve of trade week by coach John Worsfold. The Saints now seem unlikely to consider Cousins.

"I wanted to get him (Cousins) out of Perth a long time ago," said Nixon. "I spoke to them (St Kilda) about a possible trade and Ben went to John Worsfold, who knocked back the idea."

[johnnyhoward]

Maybe we wanted him, but I doubt we would have given up pick 9 and Joey. Cousins is a champion player but anyone over 26 has diminished trade value, no matter how good they are. Having Gardiner is bad enough, but Cousins with him? It would have been a nightmare.

[jackson_rules]

some of you guys fail to realise he wasnt using drugs, he has been clean the whole time, would of been a great pick up for you guys

[Kildonan]

some of you guys fail to realise he wasnt using drugs, he has been clean the whole time, would of been a great pick up for you guys
Maybe had he come to Moorabbin he may have been able to to get assistance - and prevented the current debacle, but to suggest he has been clean the whole time is a mighty stretch indeed.

[Gilbo19]

It was never going to happen.
Don't believe any of that crap, if we wanted him we certainly wouldn't have given up Joey for him let alone pick 9, we are supposed to believe that Nixon was looking out for a players best interest?!?!, stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Chances are that Cousins will still be available by our pick in the PSD and when we don't take him it will be all the proof you need that he was never seriously considered....
Having said that though I would love to see a midfield consisting of...
King, Cousins, Hayes, Ball, Dal Santo, Montagna and Gram... would smash
Judd, Stevens, Murphy and co.

[evertonfc]

could be, i only heard this from forums. i dont have first hand or even second hand knowledge of this.

Dan, it's rubbish. I can confirm it's rubbish.

You're the only person who keeps bringing up that 'deal', which would have never gone through. We didn't offer it. Our offer was substantially less. Almost a 'token' effort, if you will. JW wanted more for his player.

Now the decision is out of WCE's hands, and let's face facts - it would be downright negligent of us to overlook him in the PSD if he's available.

[garth p]

Deal was done it fell through at the last moment when Woosha pulled the Pin

Would have been interesting


I really don't think that the Saints brain trust is in need of a brain transplant.:rolleyes:

[kelsey]

so happy that he didn't end up coming, his a waste of space and shouldn't be able to play a.f.l again, if he had come to st kilda, he would be in more trouble then he was up in perth because there are more places to go out over here in melbourne, so more trouble. And then we would have had more to worry about with cousins and gardiner being together, since their best mates, gardiner would be hanging around with him, at the moment gardiner is respected down at our club, his an awesome player, shame he had injury, but he would be able to play next year if he dosen't get injuried again and his going to really help us get the ball out of the middle and up to our forwards.

[Fehring]

Maybe had he come to Moorabbin he may have been able to to get assistance - and prevented the current debacle, but to suggest he has been clean the whole time is a mighty stretch indeed.

So you're unhappy about me asking (on another thread) about rumours that Gardiner hasn't been an angel but you're happy to conclude that Cousins has been taking illegal drugs recently without a shred of evidence? You need to get your act together on this.

[Squizzy1970]

Guys - we need to accept that people do not go into rehab for the friendships. His association with the bikie groups who are well known for drug running is another issue, as well as the laughable manner the bloke has presented himself to the public (whether the completely insencere media statement originally, or the "carrot up the clacker" arrest out of the car more recently).

[Kildonan]

So you're unhappy about me asking (on another thread) about rumours that Gardiner hasn't been an angel but you're happy to conclude that Cousins has been taking illegal drugs recently without a shred of evidence? You need to get your act together on this.

Gardiner plays for my club. As such he automatically has my allegiance.

Cousins is internationally recognised as having a serious drug problem.

I don't need to be a doctor to know that amphetamines are performance-enhancing, but I recall an article where this aspect of the drug was discussed by a doctor who had treated a West Australian footballer ;).

I don't want to make a big deal about it. My feelings are strong though on what is acceptable and what is not.

I asked you, in that other thread, simply not to state for all to see what you believe our Gards has done. I am not burying my head in the sand here, just quashing unnecessary bad press.

I respect that you were discreet and I thank you for that.

[sirviv]

why do these moderators rear there ugly head in every thread and that jesus lookalike av make me hate them even more. There always so diplomatic and believe that there point of view is correct

PS Who gave these halfwits the responsability anyway there nothing more than a pain in the ahhh rse

[Joffaboy]

why do these moderators rear there ugly head in every thread and that jesus lookalike av make me hate them even more. There always so diplomatic and believe that there point of view is correct

PS Who gave these halfwits the responsability anyway there nothing more than a pain in the ahhh rse

they got their positions and responsibilities because they know the difference between there and their in grammer :rolleyes:

Also St. Kildonan is more than a moderator, he has been the lifeblood of this forum for goodness knows how long. We dont need some wet behind the ears n00b questioning him.

I will agree however you got the fact that St.K has an ugly head accurate. the avatar is actually him.

[St DAC]

why do these moderators rear there ugly head in every thread and that jesus lookalike av make me hate them even more. There always so diplomatic and believe that there point of view is correct

PS Who gave these halfwits the responsability anyway there nothing more than a pain in the ahhh rse

Pull your head in sport. Moderators are also forum members, with as much right to an opinion as upstarts like yourself who are barely comprehensible.

[Persevering Saint]

Uninformed, silly tripe, sirviv. I hope that you get to stay on this board, because then you'll learn just how fair-handed and well-educated about the Saints, and footy generally, StKildonian is. He is the perfect kind of moderator- he knows his stuff, he lets a heck of a lot of garbage come through (including mine!) as well as the good, and he gets rid of people who troll.

[Fehring]

Gardiner plays for my club. As such he automatically has my allegiance.

Cousins is internationally recognised as having a serious drug problem.

I don't need to be a doctor to know that amphetamines are performance-enhancing, but I recall an article where this aspect of the drug was discussed by a doctor who had treated a West Australian footballer ;).

I don't want to make a big deal about it. My feelings are strong though on what is acceptable and what is not.

I asked you, in that other thread, simply not to state for all to see what you believe our Gards has done. I am not burying my head in the sand here, just quashing unnecessary bad press.

I respect that you were discreet and I thank you for that.

Fair enough, and I'm always happy to comply with a request of yours (you do a fantastic job for the record and I don't think anyone will be taking too much notice of Viv). But my point about Cousins is that there seem to be an awful lot of people who want to destroy him. I've never understood that. The man has admitted he's an addict. He's not a thief, he has not used performance enhancing drugs (no matter what insinuations you make about that), there are another 25 people - minimum - running around in the AFL who have used recreational drugs. I just reckon this is not really about what punishment should be meted out to someone who has admitted using non-performance enhancing drugs out of competition. It's about a bloke who is perceived as being arrogant getting his come-uppance. And that shits me.

[ultimate hater]

Fair enough, and I'm always happy to comply with a request of yours (you do a fantastic job for the record and I don't think anyone will be taking too much notice of Viv). But my point about Cousins is that there seem to be an awful lot of people who want to destroy him. I've never understood that. The man has admitted he's an addict. He's not a thief, he has not used performance enhancing drugs (no matter what insinuations you make about that), there are another 25 people - minimum - running around in the AFL who have used recreational drugs. I just reckon this is not really about what punishment should be meted out to someone who has admitted using non-performance enhancing drugs out of competition. It's about a bloke who is perceived as being arrogant getting his come-uppance. And that shits me.


Very arrogant. The thing is, he says he is "sorry" to his club, fans, family and the like, yet it is clear he doesn't really give two sh1tes about anybody.. People do get annoyed when they see him smiling and looking very smug when leaving court or even when getting arrested.. it was clear he was on something when he was pulled over yet he still had the nerve to be smiling when getting put in the back on the cop car (which is why he refused the drug test, and i believe that his contract with the WCE's stated to had to comply with all requests made by the police, which is why the contract was terminated..?)
the guy is going to keep on doing what he is doing, because he has been allowed to for a long time now (yes, all the WCE players and coach staff, including woosha, knew he was taking recreational drugs) he had speakings to about it, from the coaches, but nothing really was done because they just turned a blind eye as long as he was performing on the field, and there are no questions about how good he has been for the last few years for them, hence why he was allowed to do what he wanted..

Its not like people are just trying to cut down an upstanding citizen here.. he is a smug, calculated drug user who seems not to care for his actions..

Maybe when he gave his big tv "speech" he could have done it the same way andrew johns did.. in a suit, live, answering truthfully to questions posed at him, rather than reading from a prepared document written by his lawyers looking like he had just come back from a holiday in the greek islands and not actually admitting to anything!! maybe then people would back him a little bit.. But the guy is a twat and deserves to have to book thrown at him.. he is just as much at fault as the AFL and WCE's are, they let it brew for too long and have done him no favours by doing so..


EDIT: Also, he's not an addict.. just like johns isn't, they are just a calculated drug users.. Joey got away with it for 10 years, I'm sure cousins probably isn't that far off!! Along with quite a few others in the AFL!!

Maybe if that young bloke form carlton (karl norman?) had a cry and said he was an addict, everyones "bleeding hearts" for addicts would show and he wouldn't have been dropped straight away?? the poor kid wasn't even given a second chance yet cousins should get numerous ones??? (underworld associated, fights at bikey clubs, running from booze busses.. etc etc)

[dan warna]

Fair enough, and I'm always happy to comply with a request of yours (you do a fantastic job for the record and I don't think anyone will be taking too much notice of Viv). But my point about Cousins is that there seem to be an awful lot of people who want to destroy him. I've never understood that. The man has admitted he's an addict. He's not a thief, he has not used performance enhancing drugs (no matter what insinuations you make about that), there are another 25 people - minimum - running around in the AFL who have used recreational drugs. I just reckon this is not really about what punishment should be meted out to someone who has admitted using non-performance enhancing drugs out of competition. It's about a bloke who is perceived as being arrogant getting his come-uppance. And that shits me.

if the drug is methylamphetamine commonly known as ice, yes it is listed as a stimulant by WADA, yes it can be tested out of competition (as about 1/3 of the 5.B drugs can be tested out of competition) as a stimulant it is performance enhancing.

the term 'party drug' or 'recreational drug' is because it is used socially as well as in sports.

if you are ignorant about the effects of controlled doses of methylamphetimes do some reading, the wada website is a good start.

[Fehring]

if the drug is methylamphetamine commonly known as ice, yes it is listed as a stimulant by WADA, yes it can be tested out of competition (as about 1/3 of the 5.B drugs can be tested out of competition) as a stimulant it is performance enhancing.

the term 'party drug' or 'recreational drug' is because it is used socially as well as in sports.

if you are ignorant about the effects of controlled doses of methylamphetimes do some reading, the wada website is a good start.

Methamphetamine is a stimulant which may improve performance if you are on them when you play, but they do not assist out of competition like steroids. So, unless anyone has any evidence that he's played while on ice (and no one does), then he hasn't taken performance-enhancing drugs.

Let's face it: Ultimate Hater's reasons are the real reasons most people want to see him go down. He's not sorry enough, he's too arrogant, he hasn't come around to my house and personally apologised so I want to see him destroyed, I want to see his career destroyed, I won't be happy until he's on the street. Look at that lovely Johns boy who apologised so nicely.

Oh, please.

[dan warna]

Methamphetamine is a stimulant which may improve performance if you are on them when you play, but they do not assist out of competition like steroids. So, unless anyone has any evidence that he's played while on ice (and no one does), then he hasn't taken performance-enhancing drugs.

Let's face it: Ultimate Hater's reasons are the real reasons most people want to see him go down. He's not sorry enough, he's too arrogant, he hasn't come around to my house and personally apologised so I want to see him destroyed, I want to see his career destroyed, I won't be happy until he's on the street. Look at that lovely Johns boy who apologised so nicely.

Oh, please.

methamphetamine is a drug that WADA has on its section B list of drugs that can be tested outside competition, its clearly listed as such.

I can see their point. If you are doing endurance training then consuming controlled doses of this 'stimulant' would facilitate your endurance.

it may be used as a party drug or a recreational drug, but it is clearly listed as a stimulant banned for the period of competition and can be tested outside competition as part of the section 5.b list.

as for addiction, if he was addicted, and it was out of his system, the withdrawal symptoms are quantifiable, shakes, throwing up, sweats (similar to a number of other illnesses, or about the same as he was behaving up to half time against st kilda late in the season).

the effects of methamphetamines are endurance, perception, confidence, awareness, aggression...or about the same as he was behaving after half time against st kilda late in the season.

did he take drugs in competition? if he was an addict he couldn't play without them, if he wasn't an addict why is he in rehab? why did the AFL and WCE go so hard on him?

end result, far too many unanswered questions on this player, don't want him at st kilda.

[ultimate hater]

Methamphetamine is a stimulant which may improve performance if you are on them when you play, but they do not assist out of competition like steroids. So, unless anyone has any evidence that he's played while on ice (and no one does), then he hasn't taken performance-enhancing drugs.

Let's face it: Ultimate Hater's reasons are the real reasons most people want to see him go down. He's not sorry enough, he's too arrogant, he hasn't come around to my house and personally apologised so I want to see him destroyed, I want to see his career destroyed, I won't be happy until he's on the street. Look at that lovely Johns boy who apologised so nicely.

Oh, please.

Do you believe people in the public eye should not be held as "role models" for kids, and should not be held accountable for their actions outside of their profession? (even though their profession is intertwined with public media as they wouldn't be getting paid the amount they do without the media)

The reason I ask is because Cousins is constantly toying with the law it seems, to which he holds no regards. A few people don't agree with the amount of money that gets thrown at football players, but everyone deals with it because thats the way it is, but when someone who has it all and can be the envy of everyone starts to think himself that he is better than everyone will duely get on everyones nerves. The fact that you add in he breaks the law (i admit most of it cannot be 100% confirmed) in regards to drug taking and the like, of course people are going to say "throw the book at him" and rightly so.

People want to see "stars" that have money and are very fortunate be humble and appreciative of what they have, not arrogant law-breakers mixing with "underworld" figures and playing gangster.. (same reasons australians don't like americans, because of their arrogance)

Some people will always try and justify the fact as to why they don't like him on "by the book" reasons such as him taking "performancing enhancing drugs" which is far from proven or the recreation drugs and the like, and so what if they do really.. but im sure he would be more forgiven if he actually did care about his club, fans, and the general australian public..

to be honest, it doesn't matter what the reason is as to why people don't like him and will want to bring him down, because its not like he has done nothing wrong and is just a loud mouth (i.e. jason akka), but he is a drug user who has broken the law a few times, and refuses to comply with police requests..

The moral police are always in action in the back of such public story's, but this just isn't a moral issue, its a legal one to.. We wouldn't be Australians if we didn't think this guy was a w*nker for being so arrogant... next thing you know i'll read a thread about how "cool" justin timberlake is!! haha

[Fehring]

The reason I ask is because Cousins is constantly toying with the law it seems, to which he holds no regards. A few people don't agree with the amount of money that gets thrown at football players, but everyone deals with it because thats the way it is, but when someone who has it all and can be the envy of everyone starts to think himself that he is better than everyone will duely get on everyones nerves. The fact that you add in he breaks the law (i admit most of it cannot be 100% confirmed) in regards to drug taking and the like, of course people are going to say "throw the book at him" and rightly so.


My point exactly. Don't let the facts get in the way of your desire to destroy him.

[ultimate hater]

My point exactly. Don't let the facts get in the way of your desire to destroy him.

the only reason it's not 100% confirmed is because he has dodged drug tests and refused others.. the one he refused with the police can and should be taken as an admission of guilt (lawyers will argue civil rights crap), but its true, just if you refuse a BAC breath test you lose your license for 2 years, but hey, they can't prove that you're actually drunk can they!! he admitted to "substance abuse" but that could be any substance, from coffee to panadol.. and what about being the last person to see mainy alive before he died as a result of drugs.. even in murder cases all you have to do is prove beyond resonable doubt.. and im sure anyone with half a brain would have no reasonable doubt that cousins constantly takes illegal drugs..

so i don't see what your problem is..?

[dan warna]

rasmussen was tested 17 times leading up to the tour de france, he was turfed out of the competition for refusing 3 tests, he subsequently tested negative some days later.

similarly the Greek pair Kostas Kenteris and Thanou were turfed for avoiding a drugs test in 04.

also marion jones cheated in 2000 olympics despite being tested several times, it wasn't till the testing program was expanded she was caught.

the AFL drug testing policy is an absolute joke (500 tests for 600 odd players over about 200 games in a year is laughable when the tour de france has 20 odd daily tests and a dozen tests on either side of competition for each racer)

by avoiding testing he has led himself to the assumption of guilt. They can't deny he refused the test, they can only challenge the mechanics of asking cousins for a test.

WCE aren't going to dump one of hte best midfielders for nothing unless there are issues outside availability of the media.

and if his team mates, coaches and friends can't control him, what chance complete strangers can?

and his complete lack of regard for harvey is a disgrace.

heck even ego maniacs like vossy, buckley and others give testament to Harvey, cousins can't.

so many reasons to not give cousins another shot.

[Fehring]

rasmussen was tested 17 times leading up to the tour de france, he was turfed out of the competition for refusing 3 tests, he subsequently tested negative some days later.

similarly the Greek pair Kostas Kenteris and Thanou were turfed for avoiding a drugs test in 04.

also marion jones cheated in 2000 olympics despite being tested several times, it wasn't till the testing program was expanded she was caught.

the AFL drug testing policy is an absolute joke (500 tests for 600 odd players over about 200 games in a year is laughable when the tour de france has 20 odd daily tests and a dozen tests on either side of competition for each racer)

by avoiding testing he has led himself to the assumption of guilt. They can't deny he refused the test, they can only challenge the mechanics of asking cousins for a test.

WCE aren't going to dump one of hte best midfielders for nothing unless there are issues outside availability of the media.

and if his team mates, coaches and friends can't control him, what chance complete strangers can?

and his complete lack of regard for harvey is a disgrace.

heck even ego maniacs like vossy, buckley and others give testament to Harvey, cousins can't.

so many reasons to not give cousins another shot.

I don't have a problem with that, of course. I have a problem with people wanting to ban him for life. He didn't refuse an out of competition drug test (unless I've missed something). He refused a random drug test by the cops. It's the equivalent of refusing a breath test/blowing over the limit. Lots of players have done that and never been charged with "bringing the game into disrepute".

He will argue that he was right to refuse the test because the cops didn't have reasonable cause. Whether he gets that up will depend on the wording of the WA law (which I'm not familiar with). Nevertheless, the AFL having hearing on the matter before his case has been heard in court is - of course - a joke. At this stage, the only thing he's done to bring the game into disrepute (not including earlier behaviour, which the AFL obviously didn't think was enough to charge him) is to get out of a car with his top off and smile.

[dan warna]

ban him for life is one issue.

i dont want him at st kilda.

if he does play for another club or comeback to WCE i will verbal him.

[Kildonan]

My two cents worth:

The footy first campaign included a suggestion that drug testing should apply to the club officials as well as the players. This policy applies at many other professional bodies. They were showing that if a policy applies to one set of persons at the club - then in all fairness it should apply to all.

To make these assertions would indicate a real commitment to an anti-drugs policy. Were they to then drop their "morals" when Cousins became available and go full pelt at recruiting him, then the policy mentioned would be seen to be just lip service. This is not to say that Cousins would be a drug problem at our club - rather that the club has made a stance and would not be seen to be dropping that stance without a genuine recognition of Cousins' post rehabilitation kosher-ness.

I would be extremely surprised to see Cousins play a match in 2008.

If a club does recruit him, I believe the AFL will step in and make some judgement which will eventuate in Ben being prevented from playing.

There has to be a degree of fairness for WCE - who have lost a player of his ilk with no compensation. For the AFL to just allow him to play for another club would be a further affront to his former club.

A secondary effect of the Saints recruiting Cousins would be open slather gutter sniping from all other AFL fans.

[ChrisFooty]

StKildonan, you make a very good point in regards to WCE getting no compensation (If cousins joins another club)

Did North Melb experience that with Wayne Carey? When he packed up and left after that infamous incident. Although it's a little different, as Carey returned the following year. North did not get any compensation?

[dan warna]

StKildonan, you make a very good point in regards to WCE getting no compensation (If cousins joins another club)

Did North Melb experience that with Wayne Carey? When he packed up and left after that infamous incident. Although it's a little different, as Carey returned the following year. North did not get any compensation?

that was a seperate issue, north traded carey the next season to adelaide for pick 4 in the national draft (which became pick 2) and the snatched Wells.

in fact its possible that WCE may be further penalised for failing to meet the guidelines imposed by putting cousins back on their list and it may include fines, deduction of points or draft choices.:thumbsu: