View Full Version : Would you give up Gardy for Hay?
Been having a little bartering session with DCFC on the main board as to what the Hawks would want for Hay.
Gardiner + Fletcher for Hay would be my offer.
I reckon we have the ruck covered with Cox and Gaspar/Lynch/Sierakowski helping out and with Milli retiring soon, we will be in deep shyte down back.
Waddya reckon? Keep in mind Hay is contracted till 2004...
Deepthroat
20 Jun 2002, 13:43
I nominate that above as the "silliest" post of 2002.
Gardiner is a champion.
I say we send over Greg Harding for Hay. That's a fair trade.
Milli retires at the end of the year, who replace's him? :eek:
Deepthroat
20 Jun 2002, 13:55
I think between Glass could be the man.
Otherwise we keep Milli on another year. I think his body could take it.
There is no way that John Hay is worth Gardiner alone let alone with Fletcher tagged-on.
Maybe we could give him Richard Taylor as well as Harding.
Nah..Id never let him go..unless it was for a real superstar! I somehow doubt that Gardi would leave the Eagles anyway..he's an western Australian boy and he's very loyal..itd never happen!
TheRealBuzz
20 Jun 2002, 15:31
Probably not. Cox has stood up well over the past month, but he's still not a patch on a fully fit Michael Gardiner.
Plus I still think Glass is capable of holding down a key defensive post in the future. I know he's struggled in recent weeks, but he's not built like Matty Pavlich, he'll take a little longer to come along.
You've got to remember that Darren Gaspar & Mathew Scarlett (who have similar builds to Glass) didn't become a regulars for their sides until a few years in the system.
Also, it seems that every year for the past 4-5 seasons people have been predicting the end for Milli. He's 29 and in good form at the moment. No reason to think he can't go around again in 2003.
Hey Vis, i think youre tempting fate by adding the game against Adelaide onto youre signiture...
Anyway, regarding Hay/Gardiner swap, personally i'd keep Gardiner as i believe Glass and maybe Gasper will be used in key defencive positions in the near future
Not in a million years.
Gardiner is a great player for us. If we started trading players like commodities it would tarnish the game I believe.
I think Gardiner will finish his career with the Eagles.
Voice of Reason
20 Jun 2002, 16:38
I'd consider it.
Visro i really respect your posts on this board but NO ****ING WAY.
Absolutely no way!!
And on another subject - thank goodness we didn't trade anyone for Chick last year. With his form this year, I would say young Daniel has burnt his boats as far as a chance to play for the Eagles goes!
Hay was an All-Australian fullback at a very early age...
I'd take it. I have doubts over whether Glass will ever be good enough for FB. He isn't the leader that Milli and Jako are and with those two retiring in the near future (4 years max for Jako, 2 for Milli) we will be pretty screwed down back. If Gardy went, we would still have Cox (2nd season of AFL and showing very good signs) and Gaspar/Sierra as backups and Seaby in the long-run. Our midfield is also pretty sorted. Gardy's a champion with our club, but why be strong in one area, and weak in another if you could be quite strong in both...:confused:
Thrawn666
20 Jun 2002, 18:03
First of all I agree with iceman, Visro youre signature is really asking for trouble...
Secondly no I wouldnt trade Hay for Gardiner, Gardiner is an outstanding player and worth more to our team than Jon Hay would be, I think people may be getting a little carried away with Cox starting to show some promise but he still isnt close to Gardiner.
Last of all why does Jon Hay always get linked with West Coast? Just because he is West Australian doesnt mean he'd want to come back, I know for a fact that he has been quite happy in Melbourne and hasnt given a second thought to resigning with the Hawks, that may have changed now due to the way the team is going, im not sure, but I know in the past all the talk of Hay heading back West is all just fiction.
Firstly, its a hypothetical...no need to get worked up about it.
Secondly on my signature....notice the question mark there....or should I put in some more?
daddy_4_eyes
20 Jun 2002, 19:11
No, i wouldn't go for that trade. Hay is a great player and will probably be the dominant FB over the next 6-8yrs, but Gardiner is a very good ruckman who can play in a key forward role and will be one of the dominant bigmen over the next 6-8yrs. So why swap one quality player for another? Let alone throw in Fletcher, who seems like becoming a good backup midfielder to the future combination of Cousins, Kerr and Judd.
Our defence is not that bad. We have Glass, Lynch and Gaspar who can fill key roles as well as Collica, Humm and Read who can fill the smaller roles. Hay would be a great addition to that backline, but at the expense of a dominant ruckman and possibly future CHF?
I'd trade Fletcher and our rd1 draft pick, though i doubt Hawthorn would go for that unless the pick was in the top3 or Hay wanted to leave.
In all fairness to Sabre he was correct last year when he said Longmuir towelled Hay. I don't think he's as good as most rate him. I would, though, think that Gardiner has the ability to be the best ruck in the competition and I think Fletcher has really come of age this season and is only bettered by Cuz in our midfield.
If we had to trade then maybe Morrisson + Brauny would be about right with Harding thrown in for luck ;)
Geez Vis i think you've lost it mate...to even seriously consider Gardy for Hay as the thread suggests is ludicrous! But then as i read on you throw a quality midfielder in Fletcher into the deal aswell? You have well and truly lost it mate.
I wouldnt even trade Gardiner for Hay nevermind Gardiner and Fletcher. For starters a ruckmen is more important to the team than a Full Back, if your ruckmen is winning the middle and your midfielders are doing there part, your fullback wont have much to do.
Plus lets have a look at Hay, he had one fantastic year in which he was AA, and then this season he has been downright ugly. He couldnt even get a game at West Coast right now, not with the form of McIntosh. Everybody seems to think he is already a star? I think in the future he may improve and become a real superstar of the game but right now.....well he is struggling to get a game at Hawthorn.
Gardiner is better than Hay so there is no way i would make that trade, and if anyone was throwing in extras like Fletcher is sure as hell wouldnt be West Coast, we would be asking for an extra midfielder!
GoEagles
20 Jun 2002, 23:48
How about:
Greg Harding + Zac Beeck + Bonus set of 12 steak knifes for Jonathon Hay
Originally posted by GoEagles
How about:
Greg Harding + Zac Beeck + Bonus set of 12 steak knifes for Jonathon Hay
You show a lot of disrespect for steak knives :D
larrikin
21 Jun 2002, 03:00
Another thing to consider. Hay has proven to be quite injury prone over his career, and I understand his back may not see him through to 200+ games. He had a lot of problems as a teenager in junior footy and basketball as well (he was an exceptionally talented basketballer). I know Gardy's been out for a while, but for most of his career to this point he's been pretty solid.
is this a Joke?
Hay = Gardiner + Fletcher. I wont even bother commentating on that one.
Hay = Gardiner. Unless someone is a quarter-back general like Mckenna....No defender is worth a Top 3 ruckman who can also play CHF.
Cox? Since gardiner has been missing, we have only played one quality game out of 5. That was a against Hawthorn and their 2 best ruckmen were injured.
Cox = Spider Burton level (good contributor)
Hay = Macintosh level (Consistently in your best 6-8 players)
Gardiner = Primus level (MATCH WINNER)
carneagles
21 Jun 2002, 11:31
Originally posted by drexel
Cox = Spider Burton level (good contributor)On that issue, did anyone see the proposed WA State of Origin side in the West on Monday? Burton over Cox - WTF? They obviously didn't see the WCE-NM game.
Goldenblue
21 Jun 2002, 13:48
Originally posted by Deepthroat
I say we send over Greg Harding for Hay. That's a fair trade.
No way. Gardy is a champion.....2 Hays for him if we swapped.
I like the idea of Harding.......:D
after all, he is just a docker dressed up as an eagle....;)
TheRealBuzz
21 Jun 2002, 14:01
It was just a hypothetical question from Vis, so I don't see why some people are getting angry about it.
It created a bit of good debate.
I can see where Vis is coming from. I mean it just comes down to which position you see as more important (ruck or full back) because both guys are fantastic young players.
Thrawn666
21 Jun 2002, 16:15
Originally posted by larrikin
He had a lot of problems as a teenager in junior footy and basketball as well (he was an exceptionally talented basketballer).
That he was, played at state level for his age group, mainly because of the fact he was taller than everyone else. Most people thought he would be playing basketball over footy, I remember when he filled in for a team against us, gave them a lot better side but we still beat em ;)
bunsen burner
21 Jun 2002, 16:41
Gardiner has to stay.
bunsen burner
21 Jun 2002, 16:42
Hypothetical:
If the Eagles landed Carey for next year, could they win the flag?
Originally posted by bunsen burner
Hypothetical:
If the Eagles landed Carey for next year, could they win the flag?
I don't think it would make any difference. He's getting on a bit, injury prone and won't have played for 18 months by the start of next season. Given these I'd have to say we can do just as well from the guys we have in the squad at the moment. The days of Carey being the best CHF in the competition have passed.
It would however be interesting to see Carey and Jakovich in the same team :).
Thrawn666
21 Jun 2002, 17:07
Wouldnt surprise me to see him go to Carlton, we know how they love to pay top dollar for players past their prime.
daddy_4_eyes
21 Jun 2002, 17:16
Originally posted by bunsen burner
Hypothetical:
If the Eagles landed Carey for next year, could they win the flag?
I think it would depend on how we finish this year. A top 6 finish and I would realistically think we were a genuine chance for a top4 finish (preliminary finalists). Anything outside the top6 and I would be looking for a top6 finish next year.
A premiership however? I don't think it'll come in 2003, regardless of which player we pick up. In 2004 i think we will be a premiership threat with Kerr, Judd and Cousins forming a formidable midfield. Our key-position players Glass, Gaspar, Cox, Hunter, Lynch and McDougall hopefully will have developed into good players.
Originally posted by bunsen burner
Hypothetical:
If the Eagles landed Carey for next year, could they win the flag?
Why would you want Wayne Carey at the club. He may be a brilliant footballer..but look at the trouble he's got himself into over the years..lawsuits over just about anything. The latest trouble was onlt the icing on the cake. I think he'd bring a fair bit of ill feeling to the club. Jako and the king have never got along and most of the players would secretly be thinking that they had to watch their wives and girlfriends! IMO the Club would be stupid to sign him up
bunsen burner
21 Jun 2002, 19:37
Originally posted by carlyp
Jako and the king have never got along.
How do you know, Carly? Did you read it in Woman's Weekly?
Originally posted by bunsen burner
How do you know, Carly? Did you read it in Woman's Weekly?
Very funny BB....I havent read it anywhere but with two players who have been rivals for over a decade..I wouldnt think that they were buddies or even aquaintances. I would say that Jako wouldnt even have any respect for the King anymore! Theres no way that Jako would want him at the club and I dont think the club would go against Jako's wishes. Im sorry but I just cant see Wayne Carey in an eagles guernsey marking the ball at CHF and going over to Phill Matera and celebrating with him!
Besides his 31 years old, look at the injuries he's had..they'll only get worse as he gets older!
Originally posted by bunsen burner
Hypothetical:
If the Eagles landed Carey for next year, could they win the flag?
here's a thought, we get Carey, we somehow nab Pavlich.
We would have Pornstar cannonballing anyone near him, Jako vs Carey and Gardy vs Pav everyweek, although i doubt we'll do too well if the team is constantly beating the crap out of eachother:D
Be great to watch though
bunsen burner
21 Jun 2002, 21:08
Originally posted by carlyp
Very funny BB....I havent read it anywhere but with two players who have been rivals for over a decade..I wouldnt think that they were buddies or even aquaintances. I would say that Jako wouldnt even have any respect for the King anymore! Theres no way that Jako would want him at the club and I dont think the club would go against Jako's wishes. Im sorry but I just cant see Wayne Carey in an eagles guernsey marking the ball at CHF and going over to Phill Matera and celebrating with him!
Besides his 31 years old, look at the injuries he's had..they'll only get worse as he gets older!
Sorry carly, but I think you have been reading too many girlie mags.
1) I have seen interviews with both players and they both say they have plenty of respect for each other. This is not necessarily true (It's not like they would say anything else), but it isn't often that grudges are kept when players go to new clubs.
2) As for the club going against jako's wishes???? Sorry, but it just doesn't work like that. They certainly went against his wishes (and yours) when they didn't give him the captaincy.
Your only real valid point is his age and injuries. Please Carly, stick to football rather than New Idea fantasies.
Originally posted by bunsen burner
Sorry carly, but I think you have been reading too many girlie mags.
1) I have seen interviews with both players and they both say they have plenty of respect for each other. This is not necessarily true (It's not like they would say anything else), but it isn't often that grudges are kept when players go to new clubs.
2) As for the club going against jako's wishes???? Sorry, but it just doesn't work like that. They certainly went against his wishes (and yours) when they didn't give him the captaincy.
Your only real valid point is his age and injuries. Please Carly, stick to football rather than New Idea fantasies.
BB You cant just stop a grudge just because that person becomes part of your team...its not something you can switch on or off.....
Glen Jakovich is probably one of the greatest players to pull on am eagles guernsey..after all these years do you think that if Jako said ..I dont want him here...that they wouldnt atleast listen to what he has to stay! Im sure the club would rather make Jako happy and keep him at the club rather than force a premature retirement.
Another point...Ive been around football clubs all my life and half the battle is getting a team to gell together into a unit. Can u see Wayne Carey 'gelling' with Jako....I dont think so.
Unfortunately...Wayne Carey is going to have problems at any club he goes to...the stigma that has been attached to him is there forever. No player or coach is going to be 100% comfortable with having him at their club.
bunsen burner
21 Jun 2002, 21:32
I better state my views before people start thinking that the Eagles should definately go for Carey.
1) Carey is arguably the best player to play the game
2) He has had a year off to get rid his body of injuries
3) Probably has 2 good seasons left.
So the question is: which clubs would benefit by having him, and vice versa?
my answer is: those clubs who think they can win a flag within the next 2 years, who don't already have a top CHF.
Essendon
Brisbane
Hawthorn
Adelaide
Taking Carey would certainly be a gamble, but it is possible to get him without draft picks. The one thing more important to the kangas than early draft picks is cash to keep them afloat.
Essendon - Lucas Smucas. Essendons window of opportunity is getting slimmer. Carey may just be the catalyst to win these under achievers another flag.
Brisbane - I rate Jonathon Brown, but maybe the Lions would be invincible with Carey. Lynch is getting old, and it's not as if they couldn't plonk Carey in the goalsquare for a couple of years.
Hawthorn - Holland has been overrated. Carey could slot in at CHF, leaving Holland on the flank.
Adelaide - I believe they have over-achieved this year and am not convinced that they can grab a flag in the next two years. They have no big stars in their forward set up and Carey would slot in nicely.
Port - doing fine with Tredrea
Collingwood - Rocca, Tarrant, Malloy, Cummings, Fraser. It would just upset the balance, and therefore represent too much a risk.
West Coast - Would be a big gamble, but the Eagles problem in the next few years just might be the backline. Jako and McIntosh will/may be around for the next 2 seasons. Plonk Carey at CHF, and with a midfield full of potential and a great coach......it just might fast track a flag.
There are 3 points id like to make....
1/ Can we afford him- probably not..Id say our salary cap is
preety stretched at the moment. I dont know specific contracts but Id imagine that players like Ben Cousins and Jako and Roo are all on healthy contracts. There is no way that WC would take a big pay cut to play footy again.
2/ Would he even want to play at the WCE- I cant answer that..anyone like to. I dont know for sure but I think he is much more likely to go for a Victorian club or Sydney Or Adelaide team. He has lived in Melbourne for years...probably likes it there. Grew up in NSW and didnt he play for an SANFL team for awhile.
3/ Do we even really want him?- As Ive discussed in other posts on this thread...Having WC at our club is going to be a big risk...His older...he has had horrible injuries in the past. Not to mention the fact that he has always attracted alot of off field drama which would not be healthy to the other players or the club in general if he were to 'misbehave' again
bunsen burner
21 Jun 2002, 22:04
You're starting to talk sense Carly.
I actually sit on the fence with this one. If Woosha grabbed him, I'd be happy, but then again, if he didn't, I wouldn't be worried.
Just for the record - I think it is very unlikely he will line up for the Eagles.
Originally posted by bunsen burner
You're starting to talk sense Carly.
I actually sit on the fence with this one. If Woosha grabbed him, I'd be happy, but then again, if he didn't, I wouldn't be worried.
Just for the record - I think it is very unlikely he will line up for the Eagles.
Thanx BB....I can see the advantages in having carey at the club...you could structure your forward line around him and porno and I cant name a defence that would beat them easily. I just dont think Wayne Carey is worth the gamble....good as he is...id just prefer to see Lynch, Gardiner and Sierakowsi there.
what a combination ,wc and porno , lmao they would be in the front row of the crowd trying to get it on :)
I dont think the club would bother with Carey...he is old, injury prone and well past his best.
We are bringing together a team that could fight for a flag for the next 6 to 8 years, if we went for Carey, we would try and pinch a flag rather than be a threat for several years...and if we didnt nab a flag in 1 or 2 years then goodbye Matera, McIntosh, Jakovich and Carey and we would be back to square one. He is certainly not the way to go.
Besides I think we are doing just fine...
larrikin
22 Jun 2002, 03:51
Originally posted by Thrawn666
That he was, played at state level for his age group, mainly because of the fact he was taller than everyone else. Most people thought he would be playing basketball over footy, I remember when he filled in for a team against us, gave them a lot better side but we still beat em ;)
He actually wasn't much taller than the other players, just extremely athletic. He played most of his games at small forward/ shooting guard. The problem with his bball was his parents made him choose between footy and bball at about 14. He was well and truly dunking it by then.
I actually thought he never played state level basketball, he really only played it as a social sport at the local rec centre as far as I knew. I just happened to be umpiring there at the time. He may well have been playing club ball at the same time, but the stories were that his parents were very strict. We tried everything to get him down to our bball club.
Thrawn666
22 Jun 2002, 13:04
Originally posted by larrikin
He actually wasn't much taller than the other players, just extremely athletic. He played most of his games at small forward/ shooting guard. The problem with his bball was his parents made him choose between footy and bball at about 14. He was well and truly dunking it by then.
I actually thought he never played state level basketball, he really only played it as a social sport at the local rec centre as far as I knew. I just happened to be umpiring there at the time. He may well have been playing club ball at the same time, but the stories were that his parents were very strict. We tried everything to get him down to our bball club.
Did you ref at Leeming or Lakeside and how long for? Id daresay you would have reffed our games. Cant remember him being able to dunk at 14 though I must say.
larrikin
22 Jun 2002, 14:00
Originally posted by Thrawn666
Did you ref at Leeming or Lakeside and how long for? Id daresay you would have reffed our games. Cant remember him being able to dunk at 14 though I must say.
Yeah I reffed at Leeming (and to a lesser extent Willetton) for about 4 years. He was defintitley dunking in U/15, and the team he was in won every game by 30+ points one year I seem to recall.
Thrawn666
22 Jun 2002, 14:12
Judging by your nick you were a bit of a larrikin player yourself...
larrikin
22 Jun 2002, 14:59
Now that would be telling wouldn't it.........