Australian Test Team

[FD369]

We have a Warriors thread so lets step into the real arena.

1st Test V Sri Lanka @ the Gabba Nov. 8-12

As much as I would love to see G.B Hogg in the first test I dont think it will happen. Macgills' wickets/match will get him over the line. Tough job being an Aussie selector as we have so many pushing for spots. I think Noffke could become the Stuart Law of the bowling ranks, his form over the years has been consistent but just not quite good enough to force his way in. The only concern is Johnson,Lee and Brackens' best form has been with the white pill of late and it may take a while to adjust to the longer form of the game.

Stuey Clark is the perfect Mcgrath replacement.

Sideways movement of the ball at pace will be the key in both Test series this season and thats where Clark will be the difference.

I think Jaques has done enough to secure the openers spot but only because no one has really put their hand up to say "look at me" ( Katich excluded). Rogers will get his day, he just needs to make the most of the chance he gets.

Got to mention Andy Symonds-IMO the best cricketer going around at the moment and will win the International Player of the year in the next year or two.

I cant see the Sri Lankan batsmen being able to score enough against us, India will be a different kettle of fish later in the year.

My projected line up-

Jaques
Hayden
Ponting
Clarke
Hussey
Symonds
Gilchrist
Johnson
Lee
Clark
Macgill

Hogg,Tait,Hilfenhaus,Katich, to make up the squad of 15.

The team will be announced on Wednesday so over to you purple guys and girls ...... who is in your 1st 11?

[dont bowl there]

My 11 for the first test is:
Hayden
Jaques
Ponting
Clarke
Huss
Symonds
Gilly
Lee
Johnson
Clark
MacGill

Not happy with Johnson playing but at the moment there arent too many other good pace options. Tait is a bit too raw and the Hilf needs some cricket under his belt, he got wasted over in India by only playing the 20/20 match.

[pinkus maximus]

cant argue with the sides you two have put up

if they pick on form though, hogg will get the nod

[dont bowl there]

cant argue with the sides you two have put up

if they pick on form though, hogg will get the nod

They will play it safe and go with MacGill, someone that has had very good success in test cricket. Going with Hogg would be a risk the selectors never like taking.

[dominguez]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/BradleyHogg.jpg

[dominguez]

King George has to play!

[pistol17]

Hayden
Jaques
Ponting
Clarke
Hussey
Symonds
Gilchrist
Lee
Johnson
Clark
MacGill

As much as I would love to see George get another crack at test level macgill has a proven test record(190 odd wickets from 40 tests).

[Bradesmaen]

My 11 for the first test is:
Hayden
Jaques
Ponting
Clarke
Huss
Symonds
Gilly
Lee
Johnson
Clark
MacGill

Not happy with Johnson playing but at the moment there arent too many other good pace options. Tait is a bit too raw and the Hilf needs some cricket under his belt, he got wasted over in India by only playing the 20/20 match.
Tait a bit raw? He's not as raw in the test arena as Johnson is, who is a useless hack. All his wickets come off of ridiculous deliveries that should be punted for 60 runs.

[Lach72]

Tait a bit raw? He's not as raw in the test arena as Johnson is, who is a useless hack. All his wickets come off of ridiculous deliveries that should be punted for 60 runs.

Didn't Katich just make Johnson look like a clownshoes?

Go the GEORGE!!!!

[Bradesmaen]

Exactly my point and thats Katich :o

[Belnakor]

Isn't Tait still injured?

Katich is a flat track bully - he always has been. He'll grind down an attack that isn't going very well, but seems to always get out at critical stages. He is the Troy Longmiur of Australian cricket. That 300 he got recently was the first time i've ever seen him really cut loose.

Mcgill is getting the gig for now, but he really hasn't shown any form to merit it.. I think we're just picking him because we feel sorry for the guy - he was at peak form during Warne's era and Cricket Australia probably think they "owe" him another chance.

Johnson/Bracken is much of muchness - i think both will struggle for penetration against top quality batsman. But keep in mind the Sri Lankan team is weak batting wise this year, so i can see one of those guys picking up a few wickets.

[Bradesmaen]

Tait came back a week ago against Vic in a one day game and took 3 fa. Then he took 3/44 from 9 against Tassie on Saturday and is currently 0/30 off of 7 against Tasmania in a 4 day game.

McGill is useless, everytime he plays for Australia he may get wickets, but he throws up 2 bad balls an over which relieve pressure.

[Belnakor]

I think Jaques has done enough to secure the openers spot but only because no one has really put their hand up to say "look at me" ( Katich excluded). Rogers will get his day, he just needs to make the most of the chance he gets.


Jaques really worries me. He has been the "next big thing" for the last couple of years, but i've got some serious doubts about him as a test opener. His main scoring shot seems to be a low percentage hoick across the line - its getting him runs now but i reckon he'll get worked out very quickly on the international level. Hes struggled in ODI when you have pancake pitches.


Got to mention Andy Symonds-IMO the best cricketer going around at the moment and will win the International Player of the year in the next year or two.


He is the best ODI cricketer in the world, no doubt. Test cricketer? His bowling is rarely used and he has produced one big innings so far. I don't doubt he is talented, and i think he fits nicely into the line up, but whether he can sustain himself at test level is still up in the air.

Our batting line up is potentially pretty brittle - Jacques, Symonds, Clarke don't inspire me with confidence if we were to bat first on a green top - Only Hussey/Ponting/Hayden are really in that class. We should post some big scores over the summer though.



I cant see the Sri Lankan batsmen being able to score enough against us, India will be a different kettle of fish later in the year.


Me neither, i think their batting lineup looks very weak and their best batsman has struggled against us (sangakarra). Their attack looks good though.


My projected line up-

Jaques
Hayden
Ponting
Clarke
Hussey
Symonds
Gilchrist
Johnson
Lee
Clark
Macgill


Yup i'd have that as the starting line up - Rogers is out for this test anyway. Give Jacques, Macgill and Johnson the Sri Lanka tests - if they can't cut it we'll need to axe them for the likely tougher indian series.

[Belnakor]

McGill is useless, everytime he plays for Australia he may get wickets, but he throws up 2 bad balls an over which relieve pressure.

Yup. Macgill has also shown he is not the "break through man". warne was fanastic at getting the break through, and Macgill showed even when he was getting wickets that he cannot break big partnerships because his variations just aren't there (though i heard he is working on his wrong-un). You only need to look at the Indian games in Australia, and the West Indies games - both involved Macgill bowling to set batsmen who chased down a big 1st innings lead.

His stats look so good because the majority of his test cricket he has played on dust bowls - thats why he was picked.

The "4 ball" he dishes up at least once an over is going to cost us, no doubt.

Macgill also brings a poisonous attitude to the dressing rooms - clearly considers himself a cut above - and has a foul temper at the best of times.

[Bradesmaen]

Yeah but to MacGills defense, India and West Indies are great spin players, hence why people say Murali is the best spin bowler as he has an average of like 30 against WI and Warne is 50ish.

[Belnakor]

West Indies aren't good spin players - Where did you get that idea? Murli averages 17 against them and Warne averages just under 30.

[dominguez]

Murali's a chucker anyway.

[Belnakor]

Murali's a chucker anyway.

oh thats just a given.

I'm actually really dissappointed - with the scheduling of the tests we won't get a Sri Lanka test at the WACA - so no chance to call "NO BALL!" whenever he bowls.

Theres also a big sri lankan community in WA, bit dissappointing we get the indian test, which i'm not really that keen to see, the indian team lacks character.

[Bradesmaen]

Windies have always been good spin players from what I remember.

[FD369]

Yup i'd have that as the starting line up - Rogers is out for this test anyway. Give Jacques, Macgill and Johnson the Sri Lanka tests - if they can't cut it we'll need to axe them for the likely tougher indian series.


Good to see we can find some common ground on this board even if it is not footy related.


I heard Langer say the other night he is surprised at where Jaques actually gets his runs (lofted over cover etc) so maybe he will be found out at test level.

Make no mistake Symonds is a test level player, his bowling will only improve at this level and he has the heart to pull him through a form slump..............Hodge:rolleyes:

The Sri lankan top order rely on pace and bounce to score runs, they haven't been given tests in Hobart and Adelaide for the sake of it.;)
I dont think our batting line up is too brittle considering the type of pitches we are likely to bat on.


For what its worth I would leave Macgill out for Hogg just because of his on field discipline issues....................................... and because he has the Benny boy smirk down pat.

[DockerNJL]

For what its worth here is my team for the gabba.

M.Hayden (Say no more)
P.Jaques (Earn't a game)
R.Ponting (Say no more)
M.Clarke (Got to improve but will be there if he pulls up from strain)
M.Hussey (Must have if fit)
A.Symonds (Say no more)
A.Gilchrist (Say no more)
B.Hogg (in great form + can hit runs)
B.Lee (Say no more)
N.Bracken (Left arm variation)
S.Clark (Say no more)

12th Man Johnson (Unlucky but only got wickets lately Bracken has waited a while for a good crack at it)

Yep thats the team i reckon.

[Bradesmaen]

Bracken? He's a pretty useless test bowler. Johnson can't take wickets at first class level, Tait can.

[Belnakor]

I think its a real toss up between Bracken and Johnson - both of them need helpful pitches to take wickets. And considering that we're playing the 2 Sri Lankan tests on Adelaide and Hobart i wouldn't be suprised if the guy selected really struggles.

[Belnakor]

I heard Langer say the other night he is surprised at where Jaques actually gets his runs (lofted over cover etc) so maybe he will be found out at test level.


Jacques gets runs in very low percentage areas - i'm suprised he doesn't get out more to be honest, and i think he'll get shown up at international level. I guess he just has an incredible eye to pull off those shots - but still low percentage... when he gets nailed down he always goes to his lofted cover shot.


Make no mistake Symonds is a test level player, his bowling will only improve at this level and he has the heart to pull him through a form slump..............Hodge:rolleyes:


I think Symonds is probably about 75% of a test level bowler.. he can't really hold down an end or take wickets, so i can't see him getting like, 30 overs in an innings that a true all rounder might get.

I don't rate Hodge - flat track bully.


The Sri lankan top order rely on pace and bounce to score runs, they haven't been given tests in Hobart and Adelaide for the sake of it.;)
I dont think our batting line up is too brittle considering the type of pitches we are likely to bat on.


True, i didn't realize we were playing on the two pancake pitches. The Indians won't like the new WACA surface that is for sure :)


For what its worth I would leave Macgill out for Hogg just because of his on field discipline issues....................................... and because he has the Benny boy smirk down pat.

Yup, Macgill is a huge problem on the field and off the field. The Australian team works off a pack mentality, all of the team working together, same body language etc etc, and then you'll have Mr Selfish Macgill there stirring shit. He averages almost 45 with the ball in games we don't win - obviously drops his head when losing. I think he still deserves a go though, after Hogg out spin stocks are very weak imo - the guys who were supposed to come on are probably still another 5 years away.

The other thing to consider is the Indian's weakness against Chinamen bowlers - could be quite important.

[dont bowl there]

Bracken relies on his change of pace and line to get wickets, this makes him a very good ODI bowler but not really suited to the test arena. I would go for Johnson even though I dont rate him that highly. Tait needs some match fitness and consistancy before he gets picked for a test match.

[Bradesmaen]

Jaques may get a lot through those low % areas but he can hit them in the regulation areas such as midwicket and cover. He is a very good batsmen and has already proven his class at international level.

[Bradesmaen]

Bracken relies on his change of pace and line to get wickets, this makes him a very good ODI bowler but not really suited to the test arena. I would go for Johnson even though I dont rate him that highly. Tait needs some match fitness and consistancy before he gets picked for a test match.

Tait has barely ever had consistency in his life and thats what makes him such a dangerous bowler, you don't know what is coming next. I would never go for Johnson in a million years and anyone who would doesn't know what cricket is.

[dont bowl there]

Tait has barely ever had consistency in his life and thats what makes him such a dangerous bowler, you don't know what is coming next. I would never go for Johnson in a million years and anyone who would doesn't know what cricket is.

Long term: Tait
7 days away: Johnson

And anyone that says differently doesnt know what cricket is.

[Bradesmaen]

Long term: Tait
7 days away: Johnson

And anyone that says differently doesnt know what cricket is.

No. Johnson has never proven to be a wicket taker at First class level even on the bouncy track at the Gabba. Tait plays on a flat track Adelaide wicket the majority of the time and still takes wickets. He is up to fitness having played a grade cricket game, 2 ODD's and now a 4 day game.

[dont bowl there]

No. Johnson has never proven to be a wicket taker at First class level even on the bouncy track at the Gabba. Tait plays on a flat track Adelaide wicket the majority of the time and still takes wickets. He is up to fitness having played a grade cricket game, 2 ODD's and now a 4 day game.


I disagree, but hey thats what the forum is for.

[Belnakor]

No. Johnson has never proven to be a wicket taker at First class level even on the bouncy track at the Gabba. Tait plays on a flat track Adelaide wicket the majority of the time and still takes wickets. He is up to fitness having played a grade cricket game, 2 ODD's and now a 4 day game.

Tait is still too far away for a full test match. If you look at the line up, if you included Tait, you would have Lee, Clarke, Tait, Mcgill as the bowlers - that lineup would bleed too many runs (though there would be alot of wickets taken). Only Clarke has a good stock ball he can produce 6/6, so Bracken/Johnson are attractive because they can "tie up an end"

[FD369]

Tait has barely ever had consistency in his life and thats what makes him such a dangerous bowler, you don't know what is coming next. I would never go for Johnson in a million years and anyone who would doesn't know what cricket is.


So your saying DK Lillee doesn't have much of a clue. :o
He has rated Johnson since he was 15 years old and predicted back then that he would one day pull on the baggy green.

Sorry Brades but I think I might take his opinion over yours and we will just wait and see how things turn out.

[Belnakor]

Johnson hasn't exactly thrived in Pura Cup - averaging just over 30 for a paceman isn't great.

[FD369]

Johnson hasn't exactly thrived in Pura Cup - averaging just over 30 for a paceman isn't great.


I know what your saying but his bowling in India IMO looked to be on the improve.

To take it into context have a look at the other fast bowlers going around:

Bracken 58 (First class games) at an average of 27
Clark 74 @ 27
Hilfenhaus 21 @ 27.5
Johnson 26 @ 30
Lee 95 @ 28
Tait 43 @ 27

So he is not far off the mark for the number of games he has played. If he can stay fit and maintain his line at good pace those numbers will only get better.

[Bradesmaen]

Tait is still too far away for a full test match. If you look at the line up, if you included Tait, you would have Lee, Clarke, Tait, Mcgill as the bowlers - that lineup would bleed too many runs (though there would be alot of wickets taken). Only Clarke has a good stock ball he can produce 6/6, so Bracken/Johnson are attractive because they can "tie up an end"

I never said Macgill would play. Hogg would for me. Theres no need to tie up and end and we wouldn't worry too much about bleeding runs. Johnson and Bracken can't tie up ends, they bleed just a little less than Tait and Lee (Especially Johnson) and a crapload more than Stuey Clark. Especially on a flat track, Bracken and Johnson probably go for more than Tait. Bracken is nothing more than a white ball specialist I'm afraid. Anyway, then you can use Symonds spin bowling to tie up an end.

[Bradesmaen]

I know what your saying but his bowling in India IMO looked to be on the improve.

To take it into context have a look at the other fast bowlers going around:

Bracken 58 (First class games) at an average of 27
Clark 74 @ 27
Hilfenhaus 21 @ 27.5
Johnson 26 @ 30
Lee 95 @ 28
Tait 43 @ 27

So he is not far off the mark for the number of games he has played. If he can stay fit and maintain his line at good pace those numbers will only get better.
AHAHAHHAHA

Did you even watch the indian series? His bowling is far from on the improve. He is bowling just as well as he was for QLD two years ago. He bowls short and one paced, thats it. He doesn't have a change up, he doesn't have any variety - the only reason DK Lilee liked him was due to him being a "rare" left armer, which isn't rare anymore (just like the boom in left footers in the AFL :eek:). His wickets in india either came at the end of an innings when India were just going for the smack (hence why Ryan Harris' bowling wasn't talked about so heavily after he took 5 against the Vics cause he took 3 in the last over), or they were really shit balls that should have been spanked for four, but the incompetent Indian top order can't even do that (Except Sachin).

[dont bowl there]

AHAHAHHAHA

Did you even watch the indian series? His bowling is far from on the improve. He is bowling just as well as he was for QLD two years ago. He bowls short and one paced, thats it. He doesn't have a change up, he doesn't have any variety - the only reason DK Lilee liked him was due to him being a "rare" left armer, which isn't rare anymore (just like the boom in left footers in the AFL :eek:). His wickets in india either came at the end of an innings when India were just going for the smack (hence why Ryan Harris' bowling wasn't talked about so heavily after he took 5 against the Vics cause he took 3 in the last over), or they were really shit balls that should have been spanked for four, but the incompetent Indian top order can't even do that (Except Sachin).

Agree here, if people actually watched the Indian series they would realise that he bowled pretty poorly. His 5fa and man of the match bowling was absolutley shocking.

[FD369]

AHAHAHHAHA

Did you even watch the indian series? His bowling is far from on the improve. He is bowling just as well as he was for QLD two years ago. He bowls short and one paced, thats it. He doesn't have a change up, he doesn't have any variety - the only reason DK Lilee liked him was due to him being a "rare" left armer, which isn't rare anymore (just like the boom in left footers in the AFL :eek:). His wickets in india either came at the end of an innings when India were just going for the smack (hence why Ryan Harris' bowling wasn't talked about so heavily after he took 5 against the Vics cause he took 3 in the last over), or they were really shit balls that should have been spanked for four, but the incompetent Indian top order can't even do that (Except Sachin).


Yes i did watch the series and if you check this link:
http://stats.cricket.com.au/series_1122_top25_bowling.html

you will find M.Johnson topped the bowling average for the series with 14 wickets from 7 games @ 18.57, bowled the most balls in the series with an economy rate 4.56 which was only betterd by Kartik.

If that is not an improvement on his past performances then I dont know what the F*** is.



So actually which Indian series were you watching?

[Bradesmaen]

I just told you everything about the series. Read it again ffs. Who cares about his "stats" You h ave to look at the dismissals as well.

[dont bowl there]

I just told you everything about the series. Read it again ffs. Who cares about his "stats" You h ave to look at the dismissals as well.

Yeah his stats dont mean a lot for that series, they look good but dont tell the story. For some reason the Indians struggle with Johnson, he seems to dominate every time he plays them.

[FD369]

I just told you everything about the series. Read it again ffs. Who cares about his "stats" You h ave to look at the dismissals as well.


I saw the series so you dont need to tell me about it.

If he had come back with 3 wickets and had got carted you would have had a case... he didn't and you don't.

He deserves a run at home. If you believe that stats and form don't count in this game, then, in your own words,

I believe you "doesn't know what cricket is."




On a related note, after watching George bowling against the vics (4/37) tonight, he does deserves a spot in the 1st Test....He has to have the formline over Macgill leading into these two tests.

[Bradesmaen]

I saw the series so you dont need to tell me about it.

If he had come back with 3 wickets and had got carted you would have had a case... he didn't and you don't.

He deserves a run at home. If you believe that stats and form don't count in this game, then, in your own words,

I believe you "doesn't know what cricket is."




On a related note, after watching George bowling against the vics (4/37) tonight, he does deserves a spot in the 1st Test....He has to have the formline over Macgill leading into these two tests.

No, He doesn't deserve a run at home. When you take 2 of your 5 wickets in his 5 wicket innings in the last over, thats nothing special, they are always going for a slog in the last 5 overs anyway, so wickets are bound to eventuate. He still went at almost 5 an over, terrible for a bowler who can supposedly tie up one end.

Look at game 6 as an example. 2 overs to go, India need 28 to win. Johnson bowls a ball full of a length, right there for Uthappa to put into Pakistan, however he skyed it looking for extra strength. Same thing happened with Dhoni. These aren't great deliveries, infact for the end of an innings they are TERRIBLE deliveries that would make players like McGrath and Ambrose curl up and want to die.

To suggest I don't know what Cricket is, when I ahve been following it all my life and have an Adelaide Oval members pass, is just deplorable. Shame on you, you've disgraced Fremantle supporters.

[Belnakor]

Chill out Bradesmaen, its just a game!

I think Johnson deserves a shot over the rest of the guys available. You don't seem to rate him, thats fine, but Bracken has proven he struggles at test level, Tait is just coming back from injury and the other guys available are worse than Johnson.

[Bradesmaen]

Chill out Bradesmaen, its just a game!

I think Johnson deserves a shot over the rest of the guys available. You don't seem to rate him, thats fine, but Bracken has proven he struggles at test level, Tait is just coming back from injury and the other guys available are worse than Johnson.

Worse? The others available are Noffkee - A proven first class performer and injuries prevented him from representing Australia.
Hilfenhaus - Raw but can swing a ball (something Johnson can't do) and is proven at FC level.
Gillespie - Proven at Test level, still in good nick and is batting better than ever.

[Belnakor]

Gillepse got hammered last time he played at test level.

Noffkee - has a tendency to break down, plus has no experience at international level.

Hilfenhaus - Would be a nice touch, but i believe the selectors are going to give perference to people playing at ODI level first.

you don't rate Johnson - but he got the results even if some of them were rubbish balls - the last time Gillespse played at test level he was getting hit for 5 an over - johnson will at least do better than that.

[FD369]

To suggest I don't know what Cricket is, when I ahve been following it all my life and have an Adelaide Oval members pass, is just deplorable. Shame on you, you've disgraced Fremantle supporters.


Jeez, calm down dude. I get it, you dont rate him, unfortunately for you people of the ilk of S.Waugh and D.Lillee seem to think he is the next big thing according to todays worst (yeah I know your in SA) but they probably dont have one of those coveted members passes and that jam packed 20 odd years of following the sport, so they are just talking s**t eh?;)


Anyhoo here is the squad of 13 and our boy George is still a chance.



Player State Age
Ricky Ponting (captain) TAS 32
Adam Gilchrist (vice-captain) WA 35
Stuart Clark NSW 32
Michael Clarke NSW 26
Matthew Hayden QLD 36
Brad Hogg WA 36
Michael Hussey WA 32
Phil Jaques NSW 28
Mitchell Johnson QLD 25 :eek:
Brett Lee NSW 30
Stuart MacGill NSW 36
Andrew Symonds QLD 32
Shaun Tait SA 24

[Bradesmaen]

Lillee has spotted like 5 guys and said "he;s the next big thing" and so far only one of them is in the mix at all, the others struggle to get a game.

[Bradesmaen]

Gillepse got hammered last time he played at test level.

Noffkee - has a tendency to break down, plus has no experience at international level.

Hilfenhaus - Would be a nice touch, but i believe the selectors are going to give perference to people playing at ODI level first.

you don't rate Johnson - but he got the results even if some of them were rubbish balls - the last time Gillespse played at test level he was getting hit for 5 an over - johnson will at least do better than that.

Actually, the last time he played he was one of our best gowlers, the tour of Bangladesh where he also hit a double century, his batting would give us a great tail.

Noffkee - Jaques has had like 3 games with Australia, no worries there, Noffkee has played with him on the AA Tours and is in the best bowling form of his life, If it mattered on who had experience, then no one would replace anyone would they?

Hilfy - Of course and thats what annoys me, they give preference to others when its not needed. Hilfy should be in the team in a year from now, with Tait and Clark in my opinion, Lee has had it in terms of test bowling and like Johnson (Who has the exact same bowling style in terms of no variety, just hit the wicket) has never been a big Test or FC player. I mean look at his test average, after 59 tests its 31.6!

[Kram81]

Hogg in 13 man squad with MacGill.:thumbsu:

[Belnakor]

Actually, the last time he played he was one of our best gowlers, the tour of Bangladesh where he also hit a double century, his batting would give us a great tail.


Bangladesh he went OK yes - but he got hammered by England. I think he is our best sub continent bowler in the heat, but he won't be in the heat this time. And a bowler should never be picked on his batting - Gillepse no doubt adds to the tail, but he still isn't a top flight batsman - maybe if get hes another couple of centuries.


Noffkee - Jaques has had like 3 games with Australia, no worries there, Noffkee has played with him on the AA Tours and is in the best bowling form of his life, If it mattered on who had experience, then no one would replace anyone would they?



Australia A tours mean shit. I don't know why you love Noffke anyway - he averages slightly below Johnson and slightly above Bracken at first class level. Though Johnson apparently just gets lucky for his wickets. Noffke is a right hander too - a good lefty is always a plus.


Hilfy - Of course and thats what annoys me, they give preference to others when its not needed. Hilfy should be in the team in a year from now, with Tait and Clark in my opinion, Lee has had it in terms of test bowling and like Johnson (Who has the exact same bowling style in terms of no variety, just hit the wicket) has never been a big Test or FC player. I mean look at his test average, after 59 tests its 31.6!

So let me get this straight - you want to replace Brett Lee who averages 31.6 with a SR of 53 with a guy who averages 28.6 at SR 53 in First Class ?

Brett Lee has had some terrific test matches - he is a strike bowler. If Tait was playing he would have very similiar figures - if not worse.

[Bradesmaen]

Bangladesh he went OK yes - but he got hammered by England. I think he is our best sub continent bowler in the heat, but he won't be in the heat this time. And a bowler should never be picked on his batting - Gillepse no doubt adds to the tail, but he still isn't a top flight batsman - maybe if get hes another couple of centuries.
As far as I remember, every bowler except SK Warne got hammered because McGrath was out and England were extremely confident.




Australia A tours mean shit. I don't know why you love Noffke anyway - he averages slightly below Johnson and slightly above Bracken at first class level. Though Johnson apparently just gets lucky for his wickets. Noffke is a right hander too - a good lefty is always a plus.
Never said I love Noffke, he's just in form at the moment. Australia A tours mean shit? So why did Jaques get selected? From reading the PC with Hilditch, it appears as if he got selected thanks to his wonderful tour of Pakistan!



So let me get this straight - you want to replace Brett Lee who averages 31.6 with a SR of 53 with a guy who averages 28.6 at SR 53 in First Class ?

Brett Lee has had some terrific test matches - he is a strike bowler. If Tait was playing he would have very similiar figures - if not worse.

And how many matches as Bing Lee played? Very many. He is no longer a striker bowler, he just doesn't have the same fear that he had 7 years ago that knocked over the best of the best. Compare his form in ODI's from last year to his form a few years ago, knocking over probably less I'd say and nowhere near making anyone cower in fear.

[Belnakor]

Bradesmaen:

1) Chill the **** out. We are talking cricket, not debating whether we should nuke a country - get some perspective.

2) Bing Lee's record has been pretty average recently, however to say he should be dropped is just ridicilous - he is the leader of our attack, and likely will be in the years to come. If he has a bad trot he should go, but his form in tests has not been that bad in the last couple of years, and i think he has enough "runs on the board" to justify his spot. Gillespse got hammered in England on a seamers track even when Mcgrath was playing - I think Gillepse just lost that extra yard of pace he used to have and that basically killed his career. To be honest there is noone in our pace stocks who stands out as truly superb - i think we've got stocks of 5-6 bowlers who are good, but not great bowlers and its a toss of the coin as to who to pick - Johnson and Bracken are clearly getting the nod because they are left armers.

[Belnakor]

Never said I love Noffke, he's just in form at the moment. Australia A tours mean shit? So why did Jaques get selected? From reading the PC with Hilditch, it appears as if he got selected thanks to his wonderful tour of Pakistan!


Jacques has over 10k first class runs at 56.. i think he has earned his spot for now... But to put in perspective, Cam White was chopping them up on the last AA tour - should he get a spot infront of Symonds?

[Bradesmaen]

Jacques has over 10k first class runs at 56.. i think he has earned his spot for now... But to put in perspective, Cam White was chopping them up on the last AA tour - should he get a spot infront of Symonds?

No because Symonds was earning his stripes over in India! Thats why.

Jaques earned his spot when Haydenw as floundering but they didn't give it to him.

[Bradesmaen]

Bradesmaen:

1) Chill the **** out. We are talking cricket, not debating whether we should nuke a country - get some perspective.

2) Bing Lee's record has been pretty average recently, however to say he should be dropped is just ridicilous - he is the leader of our attack, and likely will be in the years to come. If he has a bad trot he should go, but his form in tests has not been that bad in the last couple of years, and i think he has enough "runs on the board" to justify his spot. Gillespse got hammered in England on a seamers track even when Mcgrath was playing - I think Gillepse just lost that extra yard of pace he used to have and that basically killed his career. To be honest there is noone in our pace stocks who stands out as truly superb - i think we've got stocks of 5-6 bowlers who are good, but not great bowlers and its a toss of the coin as to who to pick - Johnson and Bracken are clearly getting the nod because they are left armers.

I'm chilled, you're the one starting the swearing!

Why not? Clark is now clearly the leader of the attack, best new ball bowler in Tests in the country.

PS: Extra proof for Noffkee, he's absolutely caining the Lankans in their final tour match. Should have been selected ahead of Tait and Johnson on form. He picked up their 2 best batsmen for 1 and 0. Not bad for someone not good enough to make the test team.

[Belnakor]

Clark has only played a handful of tests though - how did Clark got on the sub continent etc? He hasn't played there yet - so he can't take over the reigns of the attack rate. Though his record so far is very very impressive. His average so far is the best of any bowler post WW1 :)

Noffke is cutting them up today thats for sure - but Johnson really does have first crack - if he gets hammered drop him, i reckon give him 2 tests.

[GentlemanJeff]

He is the best ODI cricketer in the world, no doubt. Test cricketer? His bowling is rarely used and he has produced one big innings so far. I don't doubt he is talented, and i think he fits nicely into the line up, but whether he can sustain himself at test level is still up in the air.

.

I used to have similar doubts about Andy Symonds as a test cricketer as well. I was at the Ashes boxing day test in Melbourne last summer when Symonds crafted a technically brilliant century (albeit against an English team that was grossly over estimated). When Symonds came out to bat at the start of the day I was mouthing of to the people around me about how he "couldnt cut it", 'lacked technical skills", "was better suited to the ODI format". Symonds then came out and played a brilliant innings - was very funny at the time.

[Belnakor]

I think alot of people had to eat a bit of humble pie that day :)

My 3 favourite cricketers are Symonds, Ponting and Warne - but i still don't know if Symonds is cut out for test level batting. I guess we'll see how he does this summer, there is no doubt he is close to the most destructive batsman in world cricket - so who is to say he can't hit a ton at a run a ball every couple of tests?

[bigkev bleeds purple]

Let's just narrow the search for the third pace bowler down a little (not for the 1st Test, looking a little further ahead).

Clark and Lee will be there for sure.

The other spot will be between Tait, Johnson, Bracken, Hilfenhaus and Noffke.

For mine, Shaun Tait bowls too much like Brett Lee. Straight out of the hot-headed tearaway fast bowler mould. Sure, he can bowl really fast, but he's not real interested in where the ball goes or whether his foot is behind the crease. Bowling like this to a good batsman who has his eye in will bleed runs more often than not, as well as releasing any pressure the bowler at the other end may be applying. I hate it to be honest. It's a dumb way to bowl. Hence, I don't think Tait and Lee should ever play in the same Test XI.

Johnson is similar to Tait and Lee, but not as fast and not quite as errant. As others have said, he seems to get a lot of wickets from loose deliveries and will not be able to build any real pressure over a spell of 10 or more overs because of this. Again, I'd rather not play him in the same XI as Lee.

Bracken is not good enough for Test cricket. He doesn't trouble good batsmen. Maybe he does in one day cricket, but Test is a whole different ball game. A good Sheffield Shield player, but not a Test cricketer.

Hilfenhaus is my preferred option. He's a bit green still, definitely needs to get some overs under his belt in the Sheffield Shield. But he bowls awesome outswing which can give all sorts of headaches to the very best batsmen, especially since he can change it up. Doesn't seem to give away many runs and can keep it tight for long periods. I know he's not quite ready yet, but he offers something to the team that none of the other bowlers do. He is the perfect complement to Lee and Clark. Lee gets wickets by bowling fast, Clark gets wickets by building pressure and bowling straight, Hilfenhaus gets wickets by swinging the ball (while keeping it tight). Vote 1.

Noffke is a lot similar to Bracken. He doesn't seem to trouble the best batsmen. I know that the tour match at the moment contradicts what I just said, but I really don't think he has what it takes to be a Test cricketer. He'll always be a good Shield player but no more.

Ideally, my pace attack would be Clark, Hilfenhaus and Lee. The choice would be between Lee, Tait and Johnson, all hinging on what balance you want to strike between being attacking and being tight. Tait is the most attacking, Johnson is probably the tightest. Lee seems to be the compromise between the two, so I'd go with him.