View Full Version : Why did we get rid of Hay?
Crawfomination
30 Oct 2007, 16:57
Why did we get rid of our best full back since Langford?
From what I remember, the year we traded him he didn't play that bad of footy infact he was a fairly reliable full back for us. And going from memory he didn't want to leave the hawks but when he found out that the club had been shopping him around for a potential trade he cracked it and wanted out after that instance.
Maybe just maybe if he of never left the hawks we would still have ourselves one top notch full back, which would solve our need for a solid KPP defender.
Don't get me wrong i love Croady and think he is doing a terriffic job down there but i think it's just a waste of a player with his talent to be sitting down at FB, i would much rather have croady at CHB.
But anyway back to my point why did we get rid of Hay?
Brown Blood
30 Oct 2007, 17:00
Are you serious? :rolleyes:
Long term he would not have figured in our next premiership, therefore we traded him while he had some currency (North were very keen).
I think history will show we made the right decision, especially seeing as he's retired on account of off field problems.
philhawk
30 Oct 2007, 17:06
a) Because he was past his prime
b) We were able to get top value for him when we traded him
c) Birchall and Bailey are guns
d) We were given the opportunity to make North look stupid at the trade table
Number 24
30 Oct 2007, 17:15
You have got to be kidding with this thread Phil. Jon Hay was a shadow of his former self. He was injury prone, suffered from off field issues, was medicating himself to a point where he was close to incompetent, he has lost confidence in himself and the players in him. He was with the Hawks for two years more than he should have been there.
He was a massive liability.
Crawfomination
30 Oct 2007, 17:24
Okay fellow hawkers, thanks for the answers... My memory was pretty hazey about the whole incident, sounds like we did the right thing. Shame for John that things couldn't work out but oh well i'm pretty stoked we got birch and bails out of the whole deal.
delirious1
30 Oct 2007, 17:29
Back in the day he was a terrific player however, funnily enough we are missing a player of his calibre right now.
philhawk
30 Oct 2007, 18:03
You have got to be kidding with this thread Phil.
Huh?
flukeyluke
30 Oct 2007, 18:04
Because Jonny Hay never learnt rule 1 of Footy.
How to kick.
Seriously, he was rubbish and had become a laughing stock. In his last year he played like a rabbit caught in a shooters spotlight.
I'd still rather Hay than Dawson. :)
cradle of filth
30 Oct 2007, 18:16
Jonathan Hay had bi-polar depression, therefore he was unable to continue at an AFL level.
If Chris Judd had bi-polar depression he would have to retire, that's how serious the condition is.
If not for his illness i have no doubt that Hay would be in our best 22 rite now. However, it ruined the 2nd half of his carrer and finally anded it.
cradle of filth
30 Oct 2007, 18:17
I'd still rather Hay than Dawson. :)
well i'd rather Dawson than your man:thumbsu:
croady_fan24
30 Oct 2007, 18:29
I rather Dawson... Hay was a stuff up. Every game he played he wasnt at his best...........
Gilbert_Hodge
30 Oct 2007, 18:34
Hay made some terrible mistakes in that last season. I remember he tried kicking across the back flank but pin pointed an opponent and he ran into an open goal.
I'd prefer Big Max and Birch ahead of Hay ANYDAY!
well i'd rather Dawson than your man:thumbsu:
Jacobs >>> Dawson
Main Man
30 Oct 2007, 18:49
Jacobs >>> Dawson
Agreed, Dawson is a joke and I cannot understand what half of you people seem to see in him..
croady_fan24
30 Oct 2007, 18:50
Agreed, Dawson is a joke and I cannot understand what have of you people seem to see in him..
Me.. i see nothing in dawson..but i rather have him play than hay.
dipper86
30 Oct 2007, 19:15
I'd still rather Hay than Dawson. :)
Would you also rather Hay over Birchall and Bailey. :)
Those 2 players wouldn't be on our list if it wasn't for Hay. :thumbsu:
FriarTuck
30 Oct 2007, 19:23
Jonathan Hay had bi-polar depression, therefore he was unable to continue at an AFL level................
If not for his illness i have no doubt that Hay would be in our best 22 rite now. However, it ruined the 2nd half of his carrer and finally anded it.
Even at his peak he could not kick.
RustyHawk
30 Oct 2007, 19:45
Cos there was only 1 Dean Laidley :thumbsu: who was stupid enough to offer several valuable draft picks for a never was.
Brown Blood
30 Oct 2007, 20:02
Cos there was only 1 Dean Laidley :thumbsu: who was stupid enough to offer several valuable draft picks for a never was.
At his prime he was far more than a never was.
He wasn't AA CHB for nothing and managed to play almost 150 games over 9 seasons for HFC ( and more than both hudsons, salmon, both dears, vanders, jarman, condon, morrissey, keddie, beck & loveridge).
Would you also rather Hay over Birchall and Bailey. :)
Those 2 players wouldn't be on our list if it wasn't for Hay. :thumbsu:
No i'd rather those 2 player by a mile.
But I'd rather delist Dawson and PSD Hay is given the choice:p
wheelie_hawk
30 Oct 2007, 20:50
People seem to forget how good he was in his hayday ;)
sure his last couple of years were bad but so was his life at that stage so one follows the other.
I for one remember a dash or 2 through half back to the fifty for a goal, magic stuff. We did well out of the deal but lets not let facts cloud a good argument.....:rolleyes:
JRLHAWKS
30 Oct 2007, 21:09
Was pretty good up til 2001, but after that was a very sad thing to watch him go downhill!!
Was only about a 1/16 of the player when we traded him.
Sad really, as we could do with a 2001 version of Hay..
cradle of filth
30 Oct 2007, 21:28
i can't believe the nerve of some of the people on here. Hay was brought down to not even a tenth of the player he really was because of a serious illness.
It's like having a go at Adam Ramanouskas for taking years of football off because of having Cancer.
Delisted
30 Oct 2007, 21:41
Hay 01 was probably the best Defender we have had this last decade. Its a real shame Bi polar cut short he's career.
Roughie
30 Oct 2007, 21:50
Thank You, Cradle and Delisted!!!
Hay was a good player, and an AA showed for it. He was a very solid defender and his disposal wasnt as bad as it was in his final seasons at the club. Hay's career did go down now known from his suffering of depression. Hay also mentioned the medication he was on even left him with out being able to drop the ball on to his boot at all at times, leaving him uncoridinated.
Some times fans rather slap players once they leave the club then praise what they did contribute. Hay was a good player, but in the way the AFL is, he did get traded at a good time and got us a good deal.
The Kipster
30 Oct 2007, 21:57
Simple.. J Hay played about 20 games in 5 seasons...value for money I think not :)
Delisted
30 Oct 2007, 21:59
Thank You, Cradle and Delisted!!!
Hay was a good player, and an AA showed for it. He was a very solid defender and his disposal wasnt as bad as it was in his final seasons at the club. Hay's career did go down now known from his suffering of depression. Hay also mentioned the medication he was on even left him with out being able to drop the ball on to his boot at all at times, leaving him uncoridinated.
Some times fans rather slap players once they leave the club then praise what they did contribute. Hay was a good player, but in the way the AFL is, he did get traded at a good time and got us a good deal.
Yep a real shame. Only consolation if any is that we managed to get a good return for him. Even though the poor guy failed miserably at the Kangas...most people think its great that the roos got shafted, I just feel for Johny.
Hay 01 running down the wing...memories. :rolleyes:
Yep a real shame. Only consolation if any is that we managed to get a good return for him. Even though the poor guy failed miserably at the Kangas...most people think its great that the roos got shafted, I just feel for Johny.
Hay 01 running down the wing...memories. :rolleyes:
If it makes you feel any better.. I've heard from my family countless times, he's weird and arrogant.
lyndhurst
30 Oct 2007, 22:05
Hay 01 was probably the best Defender we have had this last decade. Its a real shame Bi polar cut short he's career.
Absolutely spot on
At his peak, he was an absolute star. Tragically, he became sick and his career was ruined.
Being perfectly Machiavellian about matters, we traded him at the right time.
Anyone that writes him off as a hack is either too young to have seen him, or a small minded fool. He was (and probably still is) ill and his career is now over. People should hold there tongues if they have nothing positive to say. There is no value in being spiteful now : it does nothing but further the perception that the culture at our club stinks (ask Judd..)
mulhollanddrive
30 Oct 2007, 22:12
Hay > Dew.
Delisted
30 Oct 2007, 22:13
If it makes you feel any better.. I've heard from my family countless times, he's weird and arrogant.
I dont need to feel any better mate, but just like lyndhurst mentioned...the posters who belittle have either not seen him play or know jack about AFL. Prob both.
And he probably came across as weird and arrogant because of he's disorder..
hawks_legends
30 Oct 2007, 22:53
He is long gone now. Didn't he just come out this year and say that he has drug or drinking problems?
Kinghts 24
30 Oct 2007, 22:55
I remember watching Hay destroy Kouta at Optus Oval in 2001...he was oustanding.
He is a tragedy in the true sense of the word. At his peak in 2001 he was outstanding and the best at what he did - FB.
His mental illness robbed the Hawks and AFL fans of a great example of the modern defender....tall, quick, carried the ball and disposed OK.
lyndhurst
30 Oct 2007, 23:00
He is long gone now. Didn't he just come out this year and say that he has drug or drinking problems?
Jesus.....
I am sure that he is not actually 'gone', still well and truly alive and kicking. It would be no surprise that he may have drug or alcohol problems, in keeping with his illness.
Hawk legend, you make him sound like the dinner scraps. He left our list 2 years ago. That does not obviate the responsibility HFC has to support him in my opinion. Even if the club cant (or wont) do much now it would be nice to see 'fans' stop sniping at him like a dog.
Collins-Langford-Ayres
30 Oct 2007, 23:00
He is long gone now. Didn't he just come out this year and say that he has drug or drinking problems?
I remember lots of rumours going around about 5 or so years ago relating to him being allegedly (please note Mods) caught up in some drug fiasco - caught purchasing roids or something. Assume other posters are more aware of the details.
hawks_legends
30 Oct 2007, 23:06
Jesus.....
I am sure that he is not actually 'gone', still well and truly alive and kicking. It would be no surprise that he may have drug or alcohol problems, in keeping with his illness.
Hawk legend, you make him sound like the dinner scraps. He left our list 2 years ago. That does not obviate the responsibility HFC has to support him in my opinion. Even if the club cant (or wont) do much now it would be nice to see 'fans' stop sniping at him like a dog.
well sorry then fellow hawk. My bad :D
keefriffhard
30 Oct 2007, 23:07
d) We were given the opportunity to make North look stupid at the trade table
Should have been a).
keefriffhard
30 Oct 2007, 23:10
An aquaintance of mine was O/S at the time he was in between clubs and met JH in Italy. The report I had was that he really wasn't interested in playing AFL anymore and was only keeping up appearances because the money was too good.
mulhollanddrive
30 Oct 2007, 23:15
That guy was the stalker talked about on the Footy Show. Was at another Hawthorn forum, and possibly also here as well, was a nutcase.
Brown Blood
30 Oct 2007, 23:17
I remember lots of rumours going around about 5 or so years ago relating to him being allegedly (please note Mods) caught up in some drug fiasco - caught purchasing roids or something. Assume other posters are more aware of the details.
It was established earlier this year that those rumours were completely false and he was actually the victim of a stalker.
Revealed: the lawyer who stalked troubled star
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/revealed-the-city-lawyer-who-stalked-troubled-footy-star/2007/04/21/1176697152799.html
THE stalker who for years harassed former all-Australian full-back Jonathan Hay (right) has been revealed to be a lawyer with a Collins Street firm.
The man, who called himself Sheik on Hawthorn supporter websites, alleged Hay was importing illicit drugs from Asia and was using banned human growth hormones while playing for the Hawks. He also allegedly sifted through the footballer's rubbish and used gay internet sites to direct homosexual men to Hay's home.
thatswhatimtalkinabout
30 Oct 2007, 23:19
Absolutely ****ing disgusted by some of the comments here. Jonny Hay was a great servant of the HFC and along with Rawlings, Crawford, Holland & Thompson gave us a spine the envy of the competition.
So it didn't work out and we didn't win a premiership with those players - it gives you no reason to piss on those players and pretend that part of our history does not exist. FWIW we were one umpiring decision or one kick away from a grand final.
What are you going to do with Buddy, Smooth, Hodgey & Mitch if they don't win one - tear them apart as well after idolising them for X amount of time.
Get a grip people. Rant over.
Brown Blood
30 Oct 2007, 23:21
He is long gone now. Didn't he just come out this year and say that he has drug or drinking problems?
He came out on the footy show to say he suffered from a bipolar disorder.
Quite a different thing!
SS_Fury
30 Oct 2007, 23:23
Jonathan Hay had bi-polar depression, therefore he was unable to continue at an AFL level.
If Chris Judd had bi-polar depression he would have to retire, that's how serious the condition is.
If not for his illness i have no doubt that Hay would be in our best 22 rite now. However, it ruined the 2nd half of his carrer and finally anded it.
not trolling, but there is no such thing as bi-polar depression. Bi-polar is about having high highs and low lows. Depression, is obviously a low. Someone can be in a depressive state when they have bi-polar, but thats similar to someone being on huge highs, just on the other side of the coin. You oscillate between then two.
Brown Blood
30 Oct 2007, 23:27
not trolling, but there is no such thing as bi-polar depression. Bi-polar is about having high highs and low lows. Depression, is obviously a low. Someone can be in a depressive state when they have bi-polar, but thats similar to someone being on huge highs, just on the other side of the coin. You oscillate between then two.
Bipolar depression is the name given to the depression experienced in those who have bipolar disorder.
SS_Fury
30 Oct 2007, 23:28
If it makes you feel any better.. I've heard from my family countless times, he's weird and arrogant.
i work and am friends with his sister-in-law. I hear he is a nice fella :)
SS_Fury
30 Oct 2007, 23:31
Bipolar depression is the name given to the depression experienced in those who have bipolar disorder.
yes but its not a clinical term. Like i said. Bi-polar oscillates between highs and lows. If you had permanant lows you wouldnt have bi-polar at all, you would just have depression. The term bipolar depression, is just rather describing the phase of the lows someone who has bi-polar is feeling at that point in time. It never stays at depressive levels. My wife is a psych, this stuff is etched into my mind.
Brown Blood
30 Oct 2007, 23:48
yes but its not a clinical term. Like i said. Bi-polar oscillates between highs and lows. If you had permanant lows you wouldnt have bi-polar at all, you would just have depression. The term bipolar depression, is just rather describing the phase of the lows someone who has bi-polar is feeling at that point in time. It never stays at depressive levels. My wife is a psych, this stuff is etched into my mind.
Whether his condition is defined as bipolar depression or just a bipolar condition is just getting bogged down by semantics. If you have it you still can suffer periods of depression.
lethalselbow
31 Oct 2007, 08:11
Why did we get rid of our best full back since Langford?
From what I remember, the year we traded him he didn't play that bad of footy infact he was a fairly reliable full back for us. And going from memory he didn't want to leave the hawks but when he found out that the club had been shopping him around for a potential trade he cracked it and wanted out after that instance.
Maybe just maybe if he of never left the hawks we would still have ourselves one top notch full back, which would solve our need for a solid KPP defender.
Don't get me wrong i love Croady and think he is doing a terriffic job down there but i think it's just a waste of a player with his talent to be sitting down at FB, i would much rather have croady at CHB.
But anyway back to my point why did we get rid of Hay?
There's a little Miss South Carolina in all us.
Hay is symbolic of a very poor time in the club's history.
Like we've seen reported of late, club's often pander to their player's every whim when saying "No" may actually provide a better lesson in life.
Hay was allowed to present himself on field in a manner that denegrated the image of a Hawthorn player.
Shorts halfway down his arse, Boots thats hadn't been cleaned for months. A head that looked like he just got out of bed.
Put simply he ended up playing the way he looked.
His pre match warm ups consisted of a half hearted few kicks followed by a couple of sloppy handballs.
His rare training appearances displayed the same level of indifference.
Onfield his skills and decision making became an embarassment for both club and player alike.
How much of this related to his illness we'll never know hence I find it hard to lay all the blame at his feet.
What I do know is that the club compromised it's standards to accomodate the wishes of an individual.
It lowered those standards to a point where it spread like a cancer throughout the club.
The mantra of individual over the team became the norm.
Many will argue that the club was merely trying to accomodate Hay's special needs. Others, like myself, believe that had the club pulled Hay up a lot earlier (and given him the treatment he needed) it would have sent a far better message to his team mates.
Not to mention the long term betterment of Hay's health.
Whilst there are some who claim that the club was not aware of his problems I find that even more of an inditement. Either they just let him wander around in a trance without questioning it or they simply let him conduct himself in totally unprofessional manner.
In the end I suppose the club bowed to the pressure of onfield results.
20/20 hindsight would show that to be a flawed stratergy.
Sadly it's soloution was to trade him and sent the problem to another club.
Whilst I understand the eventual trade (and rejoice in the players it obtained) the whole Hay saga represents a time in the club's history that's hard to be proud of.
Mitchell Madness
31 Oct 2007, 09:40
I'd still rather Hay than Dawson. :)
surely you mean Dawson prior to 2007.
If it wasnt for our club being in such good form with Gilly at FB, Dawson would have been straight in. Can you remember the first round of NAB cup? Zac had his head straight over the ball, with Neitz running straight at him, who then lined him up (cowardly). But instead of Zac hitting the turf, it was Neitz who did, as Zac easily cleared the ball up field.
in the only match of VFL i saw live this season (Anzac Day) He did a simmilar thing against some massive ass forward.
He has evolved quite a lot since the last time we saw him in a match for Premierhsip points. People seem to forget that, and keep thinking of Josh Thurgood and how he did nothing, rather then actually seeing Zac for the gem he is.
philhawk
31 Oct 2007, 11:53
Sorry guys, but i'm closing this thread.
It's not a matter of restricting what is said, but just showing a little respect.
As posters in this thread have mentioned, Hay was a good servant for the club in his prime, but was admittedly well below his best when he was traded.
The fact that he was so highly rated by North was a tribute to him and it's just unfortunate that his illness prevented him from playing better footy with North.
Remembering how he played at his peak (2001), he was just amazing to watch. Also, it should be mentioned that we're grateful to receive Birch and Bailey directly from trading him.
I'm sure all Hawk fans wish him the best for his future and really hopes he can get over his illness ASAP.
The real question is "Why did we get rid of Jonny Hassal?"