Saints cleanout of under performers continues: McQualter delisted.

[BrianSpeaking]

Been saying it for months, another underperformer sacked, good on Ross Lyon, no accepting mediocrity, everyones needs to perform or else, a winning culture being created.

[Qsaint]

Thats interesting maybe someone has come up in the pre season draft :eek:

Can't think why we would delist him now otherwise

[BrianSpeaking]

Because he cant play I would suggest.

[ChrisL#12]

Ben Cousins=PSD

[Qsaint]

Because he cant play I would suggest.

But why not when we delisted Watts etc?

[The Punter]

AFL website confirms only delistings (not including retirements) at this stage are Watts, Brooks, Sweeney, Raymond & Wall.

[Squizzy1970]

It was stated on other thread that he had one year left on his contract?

Was underperforming, but not that bad that we would pay out a contract and take a late pick of unknown quality.

Do the saints have interest now in Sampi who is on the market?

[Qsaint]

AFL website confirms only delistings (not including retirements) at this stage are Watts, Brooks, Sweeney, Raymond & Wall.

Please note that AFL clubs have until October 31, 2007 to announce their delisted players

Disclaimer down the bottom, so I don't think its been updated lately

[NeXus_Helen]

Been saying it for months, another underperformer sacked, good on Ross Lyon, no accepting mediocrity, everyones needs to perform or else, a winning culture being created.
This is a ridiculous and disgraceful decision if true:thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::t humbsd:

[BrianSpeaking]

This is a ridiculous and disgraceful decision if true:thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::t humbsd:
And what do you base that on Helen? Another positive remark re the Saints, there is no way you are a Saints supporter.

[sirviv]

This is a ridiculous and disgraceful decision if true:thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::t humbsd:


Nexus helen = Moron Mcqualter coundnt get a kick in a stampede about time another quality player from the THOMAS ERA hey Nexus. It about time u get a life and stop posting crap here

[Half Back Pocket]

This is a ridiculous and disgraceful decision if true:thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::t humbsd:

You're losing any shred of credibility you had left. The correct decision has been made (again)

[Oh When the Saints]

Tough call, especially as he was a highly-rated junior, first round pick and had a year to run on his contract.

Performed well last year IMO when given an opportunity, but his form in the VFL this year wasn't terrific.

Hard-working inside mid who can find the footy, great leadership and is aggressive, but struggles for size (<180cm) and with pace and marking. Skills pretty solid.


The only reason we would have delisted him is to select a player in the PSD IMO, as we had enough spots open on our list for the draft.


Mini a great bloke, and I hope he gets drafted by another club and is given an opportunity to play footy elsewhere.

[Atomboy]

This is a ridiculous and disgraceful decision if true:thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::t humbsd:

One of the best decisions the club has made in a long time.

This guy is a long way off AFL standard.

Tough call, but good call by Ross.

[BrianSpeaking]

ST KILDA
Barry Brooks
Phil Raymond
Justin Sweeney
Fergus Watts
Andrew McQualter
James Wall (rookie)

[saint66au]

Nexus helen = Moron Mcqualter coundnt get a kick in a stampede about time another quality player from the THOMAS ERA hey Nexus. It about time u get a life and stop posting crap here

Sorry guys..your incarnation of Nexus will probably be spending more time here as his SS incarnation has been banned...again!!!

[ChrisFooty]

This is a ridiculous and disgraceful decision if true:thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::t humbsd:

Only saying this because he was recruited during GT years. If Mcqualter was recruited during Ross Lyon reign, you would not hold the same opinion.

[huggy_b]

Loved the pornstar stash, but he lost me when he shaved it off. And realistcally, his level of play hasn't been up to scratch and with his lack of height and body size he wasn't a long term prospect unfortunately.

But I do hope he can turn it around at another club if they throw him a lifeline.

[sainter35]

Well done Ross Lyon - shame we didnt have a coach with the clear understanding of player attributes/requirements in the modern game 3 yrs ago....we wouldnt have accumulated players who were under sized, slow and cant kick over a jam tin.

I guess the difference between being a 'corporate man manager' and an AFL FOOTBALL coach.

Good luck to Mini - elsewhere.

[mad-saint-guy]

Been saying it for months, another underperformer sacked, good on Ross Lyon, no accepting mediocrity, everyones needs to perform or else, a winning culture being created.

Not accepting mediocrity? Then why are Ferguson, C.Gardiner, Dempster, Rix and Jones on the list?

They are all well past being kids and haven't shown anything to suggest they wil make it at AFL level.

I find it amazing that Lyon is sacking players who have genuine talent (Brooks, Watts, Sweeney, McQualter) without giving them a go at senior level while he keeps the guys who just disappoint time after time.

Ferguson might turn out to be an ok backup flanker, but he is never going to be close to our best 22 while we've got S.Fisher, Gram, Goddard, Gilbert, R.Clarke and Gwilt on the list.

Dempster has played plenty of games and never had any impact.

Gardiner is a forward who has played 51 games and averages 4 goals per season.

Rix will soon be 27 and is yet to beat an opponent. He is undersized, unaccountable, rarely gets the ball and when he does get it he cant use it. To top it all off, last year he had the worst hitout to advantage ratio of any ruckman in the competition.

Jones is turning 24 and is yet to learn to kick a footy. He has the worst kicking efficiency of any player in the competition and is the true definition of the word liability. No composure, no footy smarts, no skill, no size.

So we keep two ordinary flankers who will never be better than the 30th player on our list, the most useless ruckman in the competition to add to our other 5 below-par rucking options and a small midfielder who is incapable of kicking a ball in the general direction of a teammate. That isn't accepting mediocrity, that is embracing it.

Meanwhile we delist a group of players who are largely untried at AFL level, but have the tools to suggest that they can become genuinely effective AFL players.

Sweeney has the size, skills and smarts to become a quality half forward in the Aaron Edwards mould. He did well in his only senior game with a few strong contested marks and some skillful passes. Has been Casey's leading goalkicker for two years in a row and is only 19. His attitude was ordinary when he came to the club, but has done everything right in the past 6 months.

It seems to have taken us many years to figure out that Brooks isn't a ruckman. He doesn't have the size or agression to compete all day aainst experience ruckmen, but he does have the skills, height and pace to be a very effective leading forward. He kicked 3 goals in his only real opportunity and has never had another one.

We shouldn't have traded for Watts because we already had a lengthy list of forward options, but since he's lasted this long and Gehrig has retired fairly early then we might as well keep our backup full forward since our primary full forward has just retired. He has no pace, but he is very tall and an extremely strong mark. If we stuck him in the goalsquare for a few games he'd average 2.5 goals and would effectively bring it to ground for our crumbers.

McQualter was a great ball-magnet/tackling machine with huge endurance and neat skills in 2005. He could rotate through the wings and midfield and rack up possessions at will. Back then we had a very strong midfield and he didn't get much of a go. He then had problems putting on bulk and losing endurance in 2006 but he still performed alright when given a chance. This year he was in the team for the first 6 or so rounds and really struggled because he was being played as a tagger. For the first 20 years of his life all he was told is "go and do anything to get the ball", and that was what saw him picked in the first round. In 2007 Lyon decided that he was going to be a tagger. Mini lost all confidence and became far too conscious of his opponent to have any impact on the game himself. He fell behind this year because he didn't know how to play as Lyon wanted him to, so he was delisted. McQualter could be a 22 disposal per-game clearance midfielder, but we delisted him because he couldn't be an outside tagger.

I am very concerned that Lyon seems to rate effort at training as the only thing that matters for an AFL footballer. Sure, Rix and Jones work their guts out at training, but neither of them are capable of playing AFL football. Brooks and Sweeney might cruise along in the pre season, but if you put them on the field in the seniors then they will actually have an impact.

[mad-saint-guy]

Well done Ross Lyon - shame we didnt have a coach with the clear understanding of player attributes/requirements in the modern game 3 yrs ago....we wouldnt have accumulated players who were under sized, slow and cant kick over a jam tin.

At least Mini could hit the jam tin. Half the players Lyon is bringing to the club will miss the ball and kick themselves in the head before they could dream of hitting a jam tin.

The attributes Lyon seems to look for in a player are
Work ethic
Endurance
Pace
Tackling

Those are all essential parts of the modern game, but what everyone seems to be forgetting is that players are still required to both find and then kick the footy.

Dal Santo has ordinary pace, a poor work rate and not much endurance, but he is still one of our best players simply because he has beautiful skills and flawless footy instincts. I would take a midfield of Nick Dal Santos over a midfield of Clint Jones's any day, but Lyon is going for more and more Jones's.

[ChrisL#12]

At least Mini could hit the jam tin. Half the players Lyon is bringing to the club will miss the ball and kick themselves in the head before they could dream of hitting a jam tin.

The attributes Lyon seems to look for in a player are
Work ethic
Endurance
Pace
Tackling

Those are all essential parts of the modern game, but what everyone seems to be forgetting is that players are still required to both find and then kick the footy.

Dal Santo has ordinary pace, a poor work rate and not much endurance, but he is still one of our best players simply because he has beautiful skills and flawless footy instincts. I would take a midfield of Nick Dal Santos over a midfield of Clint Jones's any day, but Lyon is going for more and more Jones's.

You should go and get a Richmond membership. Then you'd have something to complain about.:thumbsd:

[sainter35]

At least Mini could hit the jam tin. Half the players Lyon is bringing to the club will miss the ball and kick themselves in the head before they could dream of hitting a jam tin.

The attributes Lyon seems to look for in a player are
Work ethic
Endurance
Pace
Tackling

Those are all essential parts of the modern game, but what everyone seems to be forgetting is that players are still required to both find and then kick the footy.

Dal Santo has ordinary pace, a poor work rate and not much endurance, but he is still one of our best players simply because he has beautiful skills and flawless footy instincts. I would take a midfield of Nick Dal Santos over a midfield of Clint Jones's any day, but Lyon is going for more and more Jones's.


You want any sort of credibility and you start with a comparison on Mcqualter Vs Dal Santo?

Everyone would like players with Dal Santo or Lindsay Gilbee skills - they dont grow on trees?? and you need a variety of player capabilities - Jones isnt the greatest kick but from what Ive seen so far hes easily equal to Andrew Thompson by foot (who I saw put the ball out of bonds on the full more times than I can remember...) YET Thommo was a great loyal servant and good player for the club???...Jones is 24, has pace and can apply a tackle AND DOES find the footy (prior to his injury this year I thought he looked good).

Brooks - 5 yrs, 2 clubs going nowhere -GONE good move
Mcqualter - cant kick 30, struggled this year in VFL, slow, cant put on any size - GONE good move.
Watts - SHOULD NEVER have been drafted - TREACLE slow and in the modern game would have defenders running off him all day..........(cant believe you put him forward as a genuine fwd option in AFL when this burly type of fwds days are gawn).
Sweeny - could have been given some more time I agree as he impressed me with his endeavour.

Truth is players like Ferguson are lucky to be still there BUT whose to say hes competing with a Fisher for a HBF and not a HFF role? (he was recruited for his forward ability).

[Squizzy1970]

I could have sworn Sweeney showed that he was an AFL player. Even in that shocking Hawthorn game he was the best of the guys brought in (I think Armitage, Howard and Brooks), yet seemed to be the first one dropped. Obviously he was Casey's leading goalkicker in a finals team.

Whilst Jones' endeavour is fantastic, I can't see his skills improving that much in a year (noting he won the B&F in WA twice with those same skills). I'd of thought that Sweeney would be the better AFL performer, but it does appear Ross prefers the guys who can bring it to the track as well as the games.

[Fehring]

Not accepting mediocrity? Then why are Ferguson, C.Gardiner, Dempster, Rix and Jones on the list?

They are all well past being kids and haven't shown anything to suggest they wil make it at AFL level.

I find it amazing that Lyon is sacking players who have genuine talent (Brooks, Watts, Sweeney, McQualter) without giving them a go at senior level while he keeps the guys who just disappoint time after time.

Ferguson might turn out to be an ok backup flanker, but he is never going to be close to our best 22 while we've got S.Fisher, Gram, Goddard, Gilbert, R.Clarke and Gwilt on the list.

Dempster has played plenty of games and never had any impact.

Gardiner is a forward who has played 51 games and averages 4 goals per season.

Rix will soon be 27 and is yet to beat an opponent. He is undersized, unaccountable, rarely gets the ball and when he does get it he cant use it. To top it all off, last year he had the worst hitout to advantage ratio of any ruckman in the competition.

Jones is turning 24 and is yet to learn to kick a footy. He has the worst kicking efficiency of any player in the competition and is the true definition of the word liability. No composure, no footy smarts, no skill, no size.

So we keep two ordinary flankers who will never be better than the 30th player on our list, the most useless ruckman in the competition to add to our other 5 below-par rucking options and a small midfielder who is incapable of kicking a ball in the general direction of a teammate. That isn't accepting mediocrity, that is embracing it.

Someone has to be 40th best player on your list. You can't delist everyone who won't be in your best 22. You also can't give everyone a really good go before you delist them so you're really splitting hairs when you're talking about which of our players between 30 and 40 should have been delisted.

Re Mini - I never saw Mini play a good game. Could never work out why he was so highly rated and you can't say he didn't have a good go and you can't say it was Lyon's fault. Most of Mini's (crap) games were before Lyon came along.

Regarding our forward line back-up options, a big problem for us in the last few years has been our forward line predictability with Frase in the goalsquare. The intention for 2008 is clearly to have two mobile big men (Kosi, Roo) plus a number of mid height speedsters such as Schneider, X Clarke and Milney. That's a far more dangerous set up (and, incidentally, very similar to Sydney's) than one that includes a slow oaf at full forward (referring to Watts or Brooks, rather than G Train). If Kosi or Roo go down, Lyon is more likely to want someone like S Fisher down there in their place.

[dan warna]

sad things didn't work out for mcqualter, quality individual and outstanding junior.

can't believe CJ gets another year, if there was a worse disposal of the ball than CJ who played more than 5 games last year I'd be suprised.

as for rix, his endeavour is fantastic, but he's a terrible player.

and birrs is ordinary at best. as for picking up dumpster and charlie gardiner, I guess our slots of young ordinary talent has been replaced with slots for older ordinary talent?

mini was wast 20? 21? didn't really get a chance in 07.

[NeXus_Helen]

To all those posters who had a go at my opinion please grow up. Incidently there are some that agree with my opinion.

[cracky]

This is a ridiculous and disgraceful decision if true:thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd::t humbsd:

Could you atleast back your statements up with some sort of arguement?
Every single one of your posts are utter garbage.

Back on topic, great decision by Lyon. McQualter was never going to cut it at senior level.

[borderbarry]

It amuses me to see mention made that McQualter was too short to make it at AFL level. Every club should have a number of small players. They are usually amongst the most skilled. Bobby Skilton, Ross Smith, Dick Reynolds, Ian Stewart, the original Krakourer brothers, Barry Cable. There is always room for the skilled rover, but we have not had many in recent years.
This is a position we could improve on in the draft.

[Squizzy1970]

It amuses me to see mention made that McQualter was too short to make it at AFL level. Every club should have a number of small players. They are usually amongst the most skilled. Bobby Skilton, Ross Smith, Dick Reynolds, Ian Stewart, the original Krakourer brothers, Barry Cable. There is always room for the skilled rover, but we have not had many in recent years.
This is a position we could improve on in the draft.


Some bloggers rate Geary quite highly and he, Schneider and Armitage have leapfrogged McQ in the small man department. This is in addition to Harvey, Dal, Hayes, Fiora, Montagna who have the midfield spots when fit.

[dan warna]

Some bloggers rate Geary quite highly and he, Schneider and Armitage have leapfrogged McQ in the small man department. This is in addition to Harvey, Dal, Hayes, Fiora, Montagna who have the midfield spots when fit.

fair call but montagna was a very ordinary player till 06 where he worked to be an average player to 07 where he worked to become a very good player.

mcqualter wasn't given much opportunity.

meanwhile ordinary players like CJ get opportunity after opportunity, and birss who is slightly above ordinary gets an opportunity.

Rix would have to be about the worst ruckman in the league and he gets a run.

meanwhile we delist watts and pick up charlie gardiner :rolleyes:

[BrianSpeaking]

Some bloggers rate Geary quite highly and he, Schneider and Armitage have leapfrogged McQ in the small man department. This is in addition to Harvey, Dal, Hayes, Fiora, Montagna who have the midfield spots when fit.
Geary is a gun. McQualter had his 3 years and didnt cut it, Sweeney has mental issues and is not a good clubman whilst the others who were delisted onlky have themselves to blame.
You need to keep turning over the list every year and bringing new kids in, thats how it works.
Birss dominates the VFL and had some terrific games, match winning impact this year, get over it and move on. Ross Lyons family rely on his coaching whereas you guys are passionate supporters(except Nexus whi is also mad saints guy!!!
Put your passions towrds positive thoughts and get excited with the draft.

[Squizzy1970]

fair call but montagna was a very ordinary player till 06 where he worked to be an average player to 07 where he worked to become a very good player.

mcqualter wasn't given much opportunity.

meanwhile ordinary players like CJ get opportunity after opportunity, and birss who is slightly above ordinary gets an opportunity.

Rix would have to be about the worst ruckman in the league and he gets a run.

meanwhile we delist watts and pick up charlie gardiner :rolleyes:


Monty always had toe and reasonable depth in kicking, but yes he did increase his workrate from previous years. Agree McQ seemed to have a new role which didn't suit and then they didn't play him anyway.

Birss may not last after '08, and I think Fergie and Gwilt will be in the same boat. Just not the right size at their pace.

Watts didn't want to stay?

Rix is in front of a lot of 3rd-4th choice ruckmen like Jamar, Street, and Cloke. And probably others I've never heard of.

[dan warna]

Monty always had toe and reasonable depth in kicking, but yes he did increase his workrate from previous years. Agree McQ seemed to have a new role which didn't suit and then they didn't play him anyway.

Birss may not last after '08, and I think Fergie and Gwilt will be in the same boat. Just not the right size at their pace.

Watts didn't want to stay?

Rix is in front of a lot of 3rd-4th choice ruckmen like Jamar, Street, and Cloke. And probably others I've never heard of.

peeps go on about pace, I saw birss and voss running for the same ball, voss was beating birss easily, then noticed that birss wasn't shepherding for him, and back peddled to protect Birss (who then fumbled the ball)

birss is an ok player, he isn't a dud, but he certainly isn't that much better than a GOP.

Voss's team play will be missed but he was basically told he wasn't required in 08.

that could have been 1 more stat to voss, but he did the team thing, not enough sainters do that anymore. (ball, harvey, lenny, dal santo,baker, max are amongst those who still do team stuff at every opportunity, thommo, V2 and hamill also did that sort of play).

[Squizzy1970]

peeps go on about pace, I saw birss and voss running for the same ball, voss was beating birss easily, then noticed that birss wasn't shepherding for him, and back peddled to protect Birss (who then fumbled the ball)

birss is an ok player, he isn't a dud, but he certainly isn't that much better than a GOP.

Voss's team play will be missed but he was basically told he wasn't required in 08.

that could have been 1 more stat to voss, but he did the team thing, not enough sainters do that anymore. (ball, harvey, lenny, dal santo,baker, max are amongst those who still do team stuff at every opportunity, thommo, V2 and hamill also did that sort of play).


Totally agree. We need more leg speed thru our team, and I was surprised to see Birss recruited (think that was pre-Ross Lyon?). Saw Birss give up chasing Wojinski - didn't even keep running just in case there was a bouncing error. Mind you, I saw Gwilt give up chasing Kerr and Max ran from behind him to put pressure on.

[Look2Me4Guidance]

I think you are being pretty hard on Clinton Jones. If you look back to his debut game in Round 3, he looked exactly like he fitted right in....we haven't had a rookie player like that in years. Look at Sam Gilbert last year....he looked hopeless......however he has found his role and was one of the highlights of the year for mine. McQualter wasnever going to be able to turn a game or directly affect its outcome, I'm not saying Jones will either, but there's point bagging someone like Jones just because McQualter didn't make the most of his opportunties. Also if Charlie Gardiner can run second in Geelong's VFL B&F in a premiership year, I think he's worth a punt, don't condemn the bloke before he has played a game for us.

I for one am the most excited about season 2008 that I have been for a football season for some time.

[Persevering Saint]

Totally agree - I think Jones has got more of a chance for greatness (or at least, goodness) this year than is being touted here. He looked good value until he broke his collar-bone, and in a previous thread we established that a large proportion of the reason why his kicking has stunk has been because he was brought up in WA, and the WAFL use terrible balls to play with.

This year, he'll be fitter, and more used to standard AFL footies.

[Fehring]

Totally agree - I think Jones has got more of a chance for greatness (or at least, goodness) this year than is being touted here. He looked good value until he broke his collar-bone, and in a previous thread we established that a large proportion of the reason why his kicking has stunk has been because he was brought up in WA, and the WAFL use terrible balls to play with.

This year, he'll be fitter, and more used to standard AFL footies.

Jones is flint hard and tackles like a demon. He will put the wind up the baggers in 2008.

[Modra93]

peeps go on about pace, I saw birss and voss running for the same ball, voss was beating birss easily, then noticed that birss wasn't shepherding for him, and back peddled to protect Birss (who then fumbled the ball)

birss is an ok player, he isn't a dud, but he certainly isn't that much better than a GOP.

Voss's team play will be missed but he was basically told he wasn't required in 08.

that could have been 1 more stat to voss, but he did the team thing, not enough sainters do that anymore. (ball, harvey, lenny, dal santo,baker, max are amongst those who still do team stuff at every opportunity, thommo, V2 and hamill also did that sort of play).

i really dont think we will miss voss.. maybe the voss of '05.. but he really has struggled since. he cant keep up with the game. so often his opponent kicked goals or him not keeping up left other defenders 2 on 1. hence why he moved forward later in his career. happy to see him retire probably a year after ideal

[SpInNeR]

Not accepting mediocrity? Then why are Ferguson, C.Gardiner, Dempster, Rix and Jones on the list?

They are all well past being kids and haven't shown anything to suggest they wil make it at AFL level.

I find it amazing that Lyon is sacking players who have genuine talent (Brooks, Watts, Sweeney, McQualter) without giving them a go at senior level while he keeps the guys who just disappoint time after time.

Ferguson might turn out to be an ok backup flanker, but he is never going to be close to our best 22 while we've got S.Fisher, Gram, Goddard, Gilbert, R.Clarke and Gwilt on the list.

Dempster has played plenty of games and never had any impact.

Gardiner is a forward who has played 51 games and averages 4 goals per season.

Rix will soon be 27 and is yet to beat an opponent. He is undersized, unaccountable, rarely gets the ball and when he does get it he cant use it. To top it all off, last year he had the worst hitout to advantage ratio of any ruckman in the competition.

Jones is turning 24 and is yet to learn to kick a footy. He has the worst kicking efficiency of any player in the competition and is the true definition of the word liability. No composure, no footy smarts, no skill, no size.

So we keep two ordinary flankers who will never be better than the 30th player on our list, the most useless ruckman in the competition to add to our other 5 below-par rucking options and a small midfielder who is incapable of kicking a ball in the general direction of a teammate. That isn't accepting mediocrity, that is embracing it.

Meanwhile we delist a group of players who are largely untried at AFL level, but have the tools to suggest that they can become genuinely effective AFL players.

Sweeney has the size, skills and smarts to become a quality half forward in the Aaron Edwards mould. He did well in his only senior game with a few strong contested marks and some skillful passes. Has been Casey's leading goalkicker for two years in a row and is only 19. His attitude was ordinary when he came to the club, but has done everything right in the past 6 months.

It seems to have taken us many years to figure out that Brooks isn't a ruckman. He doesn't have the size or agression to compete all day aainst experience ruckmen, but he does have the skills, height and pace to be a very effective leading forward. He kicked 3 goals in his only real opportunity and has never had another one.

We shouldn't have traded for Watts because we already had a lengthy list of forward options, but since he's lasted this long and Gehrig has retired fairly early then we might as well keep our backup full forward since our primary full forward has just retired. He has no pace, but he is very tall and an extremely strong mark. If we stuck him in the goalsquare for a few games he'd average 2.5 goals and would effectively bring it to ground for our crumbers.

McQualter was a great ball-magnet/tackling machine with huge endurance and neat skills in 2005. He could rotate through the wings and midfield and rack up possessions at will. Back then we had a very strong midfield and he didn't get much of a go. He then had problems putting on bulk and losing endurance in 2006 but he still performed alright when given a chance. This year he was in the team for the first 6 or so rounds and really struggled because he was being played as a tagger. For the first 20 years of his life all he was told is "go and do anything to get the ball", and that was what saw him picked in the first round. In 2007 Lyon decided that he was going to be a tagger. Mini lost all confidence and became far too conscious of his opponent to have any impact on the game himself. He fell behind this year because he didn't know how to play as Lyon wanted him to, so he was delisted. McQualter could be a 22 disposal per-game clearance midfielder, but we delisted him because he couldn't be an outside tagger.

I am very concerned that Lyon seems to rate effort at training as the only thing that matters for an AFL footballer. Sure, Rix and Jones work their guts out at training, but neither of them are capable of playing AFL football. Brooks and Sweeney might cruise along in the pre season, but if you put them on the field in the seniors then they will actually have an impact.

HERE ****ing HERE!!

Awesome Post

[SpInNeR]

You want any sort of credibility and you start with a comparison on Mcqualter Vs Dal Santo?

Everyone would like players with Dal Santo or Lindsay Gilbee skills - they dont grow on trees?? and you need a variety of player capabilities - Jones isnt the greatest kick but from what Ive seen so far hes easily equal to Andrew Thompson by foot (who I saw put the ball out of bonds on the full more times than I can remember...) YET Thommo was a great loyal servant and good player for the club???...Jones is 24, has pace and can apply a tackle AND DOES find the footy (prior to his injury this year I thought he looked good).

Brooks - 5 yrs, 2 clubs going nowhere -GONE good move
Mcqualter - cant kick 30, struggled this year in VFL, slow, cant put on any size - GONE good move.
Watts - SHOULD NEVER have been drafted - TREACLE slow and in the modern game would have defenders running off him all day..........(cant believe you put him forward as a genuine fwd option in AFL when this burly type of fwds days are gawn).
Sweeny - could have been given some more time I agree as he impressed me with his endeavour.

Truth is players like Ferguson are lucky to be still there BUT whose to say hes competing with a Fisher for a HBF and not a HFF role? (he was recruited for his forward ability).

I agree Teffers...Stick Ferg on the HFF....and let him dominate.

[Axcellence]

Good Call by RL. McQualter should have gone earlier. He just wasn't cutting it in the St Kilda midfield structure. We already have a good small midfielder in Montagna. McQualter was small, but not great inside and not made out to be a outside player.

[Oh When the Saints]

And he's back ... on the rookie list. Has 12 months to dominate at VFL level or that's it.

[35Harvs]

welcome back ..:thumbsu:
Nexus will be happy

[FredNurks]

And thats all that matters to all of us

[35Harvs]

of course ... :rolleyes:

[wheels4]

Jones is flint hard and tackles like a demon. He will put the wind up the baggers in 2008.
Good call

[Vaul Darkhour]

did ya really have to raise expectations and bring up an old thread... admin...

[wheels4]

did ya really have to raise expectations and bring up an old thread... admin...
did i scare anybody :p
sorry kids

[SaintsSeptember]

I'm not sure that "scare" is the word.

[Fehring]

Personally I think Wheels' bump was spot on. That Fehring guy knows what he's talking about.

[Fehring]

Personally I think Wheels' bump was spot on. That Fehring guy knows what he's talking about.

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Personally I think Wheels' bump was spot on. That Fehring guy knows what he's talking about.

Posting things twice adds emphasis, I agree strongly with you.

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Posting things twice adds emphasis, I agree strongly with you.

[_Interpol_]

Good call

Poor bump, you got me excited..

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Poor bump, you got me excited..

There is help available.

[Signd Sealed Saint]

Well admittedly cleaning out under performers would mean like half the team but hopefully the old hacks/list cloggers/Fioras (he deserves his own category) whatever you like to call have got to go for the young players to come through. The 24-25 year olds who've shown they can't do all that much at AFL level have got to go, Rix, McQualter (yes i'm aware he's 22), Gwilt (tough call, but he's had his chances) and Ferguson have got to make way for *insert young player/draft pick here*. We can't afford to have them on the list and make the same non youth mistake that GT made during 04-06

[St DAC]

Then you'll all be sadly disappointed. My understanding is that McQualter will be offered a new contract on the main list, as he should; he played some significant lock down roles this year. and worked his ring off to get elevated from the rookie list. There's a few blokes, perhaps with a bit more talent, who should take notice of his work rate.

[dg102]

ndG6_1ZFBLA

I cant believe people were saying Jones should have been dropped. He's so fast and a good tackler. He could become our best tagger. I love watching this clip. Such good memories beating Hawthorn.

[ljm2]

Then you'll all be sadly disappointed. My understanding is that McQualter will be offered a new contract on the main list, as he should; he played some significant lock down roles this year. and worked his ring off to get elevated from the rookie list. There's a few blokes, perhaps with a bit more talent, who should take notice of his work rate.

Yes he locked them down, but in effect tagged himself out of the game. He also works hard but I don't believe he's up to AFL level. Still wouldn't suprise me if he was resigned though.. haha

[sainter35]

Locking down players and not being able to win some footy yourself is not enough IMO.

C LING.

[St DAC]

If your minimum standard for taggers is C. Ling then there will be a whole raft of taggers, from all sides, who will fall short. He's the best tagger going around, and he's been in the system a whole lot longer than McQualter.

The real question can only be answered by the coaching staff; Did he perform as required? If yes, then he'll be a gig again for 2009. We'll know soon enough.

[Defacto]

c jones is one of consistent players. actually he's one who has developed nicely. fits right in. mcqualter hasnt.

jones will have an awesome year in 2009.

[SaintsSeptember]

If your minimum standard for taggers is C. Ling then there will be a whole raft of taggers, from all sides, who will fall short. He's the best tagger going around, and he's been in the system a whole lot longer than McQualter.

The real question can only be answered by the coaching staff; Did he perform as required? If yes, then he'll be a gig again for 2009. We'll know soon enough.

If that is the criteria we could be keeping Attard and Van Rheenan, ( couldn't expect them to perform better when they are injured ) and we would be de-listing Kosi and Dal Santo, ( expected better ).

The truth is that they will not look at McQualter as a stand alone player. They will look at his abilities, and the abilities of the other players in the group, and estimate what improvement would be expected , and how many other players can fulfil his role as well or better in the future.

[Vaul Darkhour]

yep.. being saying it for a while aye Squizzy, bg etc.? ;) just needed AFL experience and confidence to permeate through his veins..

Fehring also knows what he's talking about.. lol.. :)

found that thread I was looking for from last year squiz and co.. :)

Clinton Jones 1st Nov 2007
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393038

still have confidence in Xman though... oh and in another predictive thread I said Raph would step up most improved player this year... funny thing he played a half a dozen games or so and won the equivalent.. lol

[Vaul Darkhour]

heres the other thread..

yes you can bash me all you want.. I think Fiora has the capability to be a great footballer but something is holding him back... don't know what it is, prob confidence but he's not consistent enough, cant blame it on injury and is wasting too much time and positions for other players.. although it seems he has one more year.. or does he...

Predictions 2008
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=380104

[St DAC]

If that is the criteria we could be keeping Attard and Van Rheenan, ( couldn't expect them to perform better when they are injured ) and we would be de-listing Kosi and Dal Santo, ( expected better ).

The truth is that they will not look at McQualter as a stand alone player. They will look at his abilities, and the abilities of the other players in the group, and estimate what improvement would be expected , and how many other players can fulfil his role as well or better in the future.

Of course they will. But in judging how he specifically has performed, the criteria will be did he perform as required, yes or no. No doubt when comparing him to the rest of the list all the things you've mentioned will come into play, and decisions will be made for the good of the list.

But don't be surprised if he's on the main list for 2009, because I expect he will be. The kid did pretty well when he got his chance.

[Signd Sealed Saint]

Lol VH, this is breakfast for me.... Nah i won't go into you too much, but you're saying this after like 150 games of crap and 2 and half games of good? Think you're just a tad late mate. And just on the subject of under performers, to be an under performer you actually have to achieve something, so that leaves Fiona out of it for me... As for McQualter, I'll use my line again, he tags himself out of the game and lets the other bloke get it like he's not there. I think Leigh Fisher did some fantastic jobs before he got dropped, if he can't get a game as tagger I think there is no defence for McQualter. I watched Leigh Fisher round 1 this year on Goodes, absolutely brilliant.

[Vaul Darkhour]

obviously not a fan of McQualter SSS.. tagging types or possibles

Jones, Attard, Dempster, Fisher, Birss or McQualter?

[Signd Sealed Saint]

I reckon Leigh Fisher is the best pure stopping type out of that bunch, but i think it's fair enough that he's not getting a game. Jones and Dempster look quite good, they'll be regulars in the 22 imo, i think Jones' commitment is fantastic when he's given a task and Dempster has been really solid all year before he did his ACL which is very unlucky for him. Dempster holds down a defensive post which means BJ and Gram can give us that drive which we lack. Attard is a solid player, but won't develop into a good one i don't think, he'll be a good depth player in the years to come. McQualter has a good engine from what i've seen of him but he's just shit, no other word to describe him. I don't mind Birss, can kick a goal and does a fair job of stopper, handy fringe player.

We sort of need to categorise the players, the core, the regulars, the fringe players, the depth players, the list cloggers and Fiora. The last 2 categories need to go.

[HoldenMCaulfield]

...and Fiora. The last 2 categories need to go.

Your obsession with Fiora is starting to remind of the obsession another poster of this board has with Rod Butterss (and Grant Thomas)...

You're a young man and will learn, but I must say that you're losing my respect rather quickly at the moment.

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Well, I lulled.

[Signd Sealed Saint]

Just having a joke Holden, he's pretty shit but not that bad i know but can't we all just have some fun eh? I reckon the 24-25 year olds who haven't shown a whole of a lot need to go for some of our younger players to come. Our quantity of young players are nearly as bad as Australia's spin stocks but the ones we do have will become pretty good players i think. We haven't really had the cream of the crop due to our high finishes and poor trading (Stevo Salopek for Brooks is one that comes back to haunt), but Raph Clarke is coming along, Armitage will get more game time, i'm sure he'll get plenty of the pill. Stevo will be a star, McEvoy is going to be a good player, tall ****men take a while to develop and maybe he'll be better Kruizer, we'll just have to wait and see. I'm sure whatever we get with our first rounder will be quality, Bleach is one I'd like to see at the club, bit of zip about him but we do need a KPB so I'll be more than happy if we go in that direction.

[Squizzy1970]

yep.. being saying it for a while aye Squizzy, bg etc.? ;) just needed AFL experience and confidence to permeate through his veins..

Fehring also knows what he's talking about.. lol.. :)

found that thread I was looking for from last year squiz and co.. :)

Clinton Jones 1st Nov 2007
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393038

still have confidence in Xman though... oh and in another predictive thread I said Raph would step up most improved player this year... funny thing he played a half a dozen games or so and won the equivalent.. lol

Geez Darky - you'd think I'd shit in your lunchbox!!! :D Had a read thru the old thread. I think I mentioned that CJ would be expected to improve over summer but we needed guys who can do more than just run (need to run to the right spots and deliver with skill). I also didn't think he could play the Hamill-type defensive forward role. Think I also mentioned I couldn't bear watching him kick for goal (sorry mate - I still can't!). Well done to CJ for exceeding many peoples' expectations, and being able to move into the midfield, but we are still looking for the guys who can both run & carry and deliver skillfully and kick goals. Otherwise why would we be all over a 30yo (Ben Cousins) like a rash?

Think I mentioned that I liked Birssy but he'd be struggling for a gig about this time?

[Squizzy1970]

heres the other thread..

yes you can bash me all you want.. I think Fiora has the capability to be a great footballer but something is holding him back... don't know what it is, prob confidence but he's not consistent enough, cant blame it on injury and is wasting too much time and positions for other players.. although it seems he has one more year.. or does he...

Predictions 2008
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=380104

But where's the contrition for the bloopers Darky? We can't all nail 'em every time can we? Even Squizzy (but happy with my 99.5% out of 2,000 odd posts).

[ChrisFooty]

Your obsession with Fiora is starting to remind of the obsession another poster of this board has with Rod Butterss (and Grant Thomas)...

You're a young man and will learn, but I must say that you're losing my respect rather quickly at the moment.

But it's Fiora:D

[Signd Sealed Saint]

Shall we do the old thread again? I think we should

[Vaul Darkhour]

But where's the contrition for the bloopers Darky? We can't all nail 'em every time can we? Even Squizzy (but happy with my 99.5% out of 2,000 odd posts).

lol.. knew I'd get a rise out of ya squizmeister.. ;)