Why are the Kangaroos better off in Melbourne than on the Gold Coast?

[Mickdog]

I would like to hear just one reason why. I have not heard any reason why they would be better off in Meblorune

[rooboy_90]

Because metropolitan Melbourne is growing faster than the gold coast. It means that North Melbourne remains North Melbourne and that our history is preserved for ever. If we relocate. We exist no more.

[Mickdog]

Because metropolitan Melbourne is growing faster than the gold coast. It means that North Melbourne remains North Melbourne and that our history is preserved for ever. If we relocate. We exist no more.

LOL, seriously?

Gold Coast is growing at a huge rate and doesn't have any compeition in its neiche market. To compare it to the market in Melbourne is poor.

Kangas wil always keep their history. Weather they move to the Gold Coast, or the moon.

[RUNVS]

If the Kangroos relocate they will not lose their history. Swans and Lions fans both embrace the history of their respective clubs.

[philhawk]

How about three?

a) The 25k core fans in Melbourne wont be able to witness their club playing in Melbourne for at least 14 games a year like other Victorian clubs.

b) The Gold Coast is a suicidal region for non-rugby teams and is very likely to fail in it's first five years (even with AFL handouts), destroying almost 140 years of history with it.

c) If Brisbane can't attract more than 25k in members in currently a one team state, what makes people think that adding another team to the state will mean more memberships?

[RUNVS]

How about three?

a) The 25k core fans in Melbourne wont be able to witness their club playing in Melbourne for at least 14 games a year like other Victorian clubs.

b) The Gold Coast is a suicidal region for non-rugby teams and is very likely to fail in it's first five years (even with AFL handouts), destroying almost 140 years of history with it.

c) If Brisbane can't attract more than 25k in members in currently a one team state, what makes people think that adding another team to the state will mean more memberships?

Im sure the same thing was said about the Swans moving to Sydney and the Lions moving to Brisbane.

The whole point of moving the Kangaroos is the increase the popularity of AFL in the Gold Coast and you cant do that without having a AFL team in the area.

[Too_many_talls]

^^^

*claps*

[philhawk]

Im sure the same thing was said about the Swans moving to Sydney and the Lions moving to Brisbane.


Sure, that's true - but teams have been to the Gold Coast in the past and failed - miserably.

Chargers, Gladiators, etc. Unlike the Sydney expansion, Queensland already has a club representing it - so why not stick to the status quo and just leave it as is?

The whole point of moving the Kangaroos is the increase the popularity of AFL in the Gold Coast and you cant do that without having a AFL team in the area.

Is the Gold Coast in Qld?

If the AFL is that desperate to make the code work in the state, why not just do what they're doing with Sydney and pump more money into the code via the one-state club?

[Ryz]

I really cant understand all this.

If the AFL want us up there, then the pressure will be on the next group (I.E Melbourne and the Bulldogs) Then who after that?

Who determines what makes a club successful? How much profit has to be made?, how many members per club is acceptable for them to be viable?

It will never stop.


FFS we might as well do what the FFA did, disband all teams and then keep all the big money earners, that seems the only way of keeping people happy.

[Mickdog]

How about three?

a) The 25k core fans in Melbourne wont be able to witness their club playing in Melbourne for at least 14 games a year like other Victorian clubs.

b) The Gold Coast is a suicidal region for non-rugby teams and is very likely to fail in it's first five years (even with AFL handouts), destroying almost 140 years of history with it.

c) If Brisbane can't attract more than 25k in members in currently a one team state, what makes people think that adding another team to the state will mean more memberships?

a) Those 25k fans are the problem. They fail to bring along any of their mate to watch games and buy memberships.

b) This is your opinion, nothing more than an illogical rant.

c) Fair call. But North can't attreact anymore than that so why is it a problem. The money made from TV rights will far outweigh the small memberships in the Gold Coast

[Subprime]

How about three?

a) The 25k core fans in Melbourne wont be able to witness their club playing in Melbourne for at least 14 games a year like other Victorian clubs.

b) The Gold Coast is a suicidal region for non-rugby teams and is very likely to fail in it's first five years (even with AFL handouts), destroying almost 140 years of history with it.

c) If Brisbane can't attract more than 25k in members in currently a one team state, what makes people think that adding another team to the state will mean more memberships?


How many games does the Da Rauch compromise propose to sell?

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/roos-heavy-flags-gold-coast-compromise/2007/10/30/1193618889201.html

I read here its 7 or 8, plus 4 or 5 away interstate, that leaves 7 or 8 in Melbourne doesn't it? Versus 6 if you strike a deal and relocate, plus guaranteed funding, etc.

[Mickdog]

Sure, that's true - but teams have been to the Gold Coast in the past and failed - miserably.

Chargers, Gladiators, etc. Unlike the Sydney expansion, Queensland already has a club representing it - so why not stick to the status quo and just leave it as is?



Is the Gold Coast in Qld?

If the AFL is that desperate to make the code work in the state, why not just do what they're doing with Sydney and pump more money into the code via the one-state club?

Teams have failed in the Gold Coast. None however had the funding the AFL now can provide.

Yes the GC is in QLD. What has that got to do with the price of rice in China?

The AFL are putting moneyh into Sydney and will continue when they move or create another team in Sydney's west. It is logical to move into 2 of the biggest growth areas in Australia.

[RussellEbertHandball]

Gold Coast is growing at a huge rate .

Define huge????????

GC population 2001 census 426,661

2001 Census QuickStats : Gold Coast (C) (Local Government Area)
(http://www.censusdata.abs.gov.au/ABSNavigation/prenav/ProductSelect?newproducttype=QuickStats&btnSelectProduct=View+QuickStats+%3E&collection=Census&period=2001&areacode=LGA33460&geography=&method=&productlabel=&producttype=&topic=&navmapdisplayed=true&javascript=true&breadcrumb=LP&topholder=0&leftholder=0&currentaction=201&action=401&textversion=false)

GC population 2006 census 472,279
2006 Census QuickStats : Gold Coast (C) (Local Government Area)
(http://www.censusdata.abs.gov.au/ABSNavigation/prenav/LocationSearch?locationLastSearchTerm=Gold+Coast&locationSearchTerm=Gold+Coast&newarea=LGA33460&submitbutton=View+QuickStats+%3E&mapdisplay=on&collection=Census&period=2006&areacode=LGA33460&geography=&method=&productlabel=&producttype=QuickStats&topic=&navmapdisplayed=true&javascript=true&breadcrumb=PL&topholder=0&leftholder=0&currentaction=104&action=401&textversion=false&subaction=1)

that's a 10.69% increase over 5 years or an annual compound growth 2.05% compared to the rest of Oz at about 1.2% over the same period. And the Gold Coast's rate of growth has slowed down compared to the previous census periods of approximately 363,000 in 1996 and 295,000 in 1991.

Melbourne's population grew between 2001 and 2006 according to census data from 3,338,704 to 3,592,591 or 7.6%.

So in your own words that's a "huge" difference!

[rb214]

If the Kangroos relocate they will not lose their history. Swans and Lions fans both embrace the history of their respective clubs.

Ha Ha

[rb214]

I would like to hear just one reason why. I have not heard any reason why they would be better off in Meblorune

Why do you care so much?

Don`t you have something more pressing to concern yourself with than another AFL club?

Too much spare time some of you people.

[philhawk]

Teams have failed in the Gold Coast. None however had the funding the AFL now can provide.

Money can only take you so far.

Money can't necessarily equate to on-field success (which at the end of the day will be the be-all and the end-all if this does happen).

Yes the GC is in QLD. What has that got to do with the price of rice in China?

Er, try the fact that the question was "you can't do that without a team in the area".

What are Brisbane, then?


The AFL are putting moneyh into Sydney and will continue when they move or create another team in Sydney's west. It is logical to move into 2 of the biggest growth areas in Australia.

Again, growth region doesn't equate to people actually taking an interest in the sport. You can try and shove the AFL brand up peoples' nose as much as you like, but at the end of the day it's up to those people to decide whether they actually want to see the sport or not.

Based on crowd figures taken from matches already played on the Coast - you can't suggest that there's a massive amount of interest for the code up on the Coast currently.

A friend of mine went to the Adelaide vs North game this year on the Coast. Whilst there was a reasonably good crowd (according to him), most were actually Adelaide fans.

So what makes you think that fans already there will shift to the new team and that people who've never particularly liked the sport will suddenly take it up?

[jacko57]

Nice work philhawk ; but I learned some time ago that there is no point debating this issue with Mickdog. He is aptly named, because he resembles a dog chasing its own tail.....totally impervious to fact, logic or reason........he believes North should go to the Gold Coast, therefore any argument to the contrary is wrong in his eyes.

Basically, he just doesn't get it.

[DarwinRoo]

If the Kangroos relocate they will not lose their history. Swans and Lions fans both embrace the history of their respective clubs.

"Who the **** is South Melbourne?"

[relapse]

Because metropolitan Melbourne is growing faster than the gold coast. It means that North Melbourne remains North Melbourne and that our history is preserved for ever. If we relocate. We exist no more.

melbourne growth has to be divided 11 ways with North Melbourne sharing the smallest portion of the 11th share. The Melbourne market is already exhausted. A growth of 1 million in the Gold Coast equates to a growth of about 14 million in victoria as a comparision taking into account the fact that every club has a share in the population growth.

[relapse]

How about three?

a) The 25k core fans in Melbourne wont be able to witness their club playing in Melbourne for at least 14 games a year like other Victorian clubs.

b) The Gold Coast is a suicidal region for non-rugby teams and is very likely to fail in it's first five years (even with AFL handouts), destroying almost 140 years of history with it.

c) If Brisbane can't attract more than 25k in members in currently a one team state, what makes people think that adding another team to the state will mean more memberships?

do you think the AFL have spent millions on research and are prepared to spend hundreds of millions on a white elephant ???

People are just too short sighted about the future prospects. The future for the kangaroos at the gold coast is far more rosy at the Gold Coast. The melbourne market is stretched to its limit and the requirements for each club to remain solvent is growing faster than the vic population. Each year every club needs that bit more to get over the bar.

[mcgarnacle]

Is the Gold Coast in Qld?

yes it is.......the region also extends beyond the other side of the tweed into northern nsw. towns such as lismore, byron bay, etc are only an hr-half's drive from gc

[relapse]

Nice work philhawk ; but I learned some time ago that there is no point debating this issue with Mickdog. He is aptly named, because he resembles a dog chasing its own tail.....totally impervious to fact, logic or reason........he believes North should go to the Gold Coast, therefore any argument to the contrary is wrong in his eyes.

Basically, he just doesn't get it.

yet every North supporter is the total opposite, don't you see the irony in criticisng him about it :rolleyes:

[DarwinRoo]

melbourne growth has to be divided 11 ways with North Melbourne sharing the smallest portion of the 11th share. The Melbourne market is already exhausted. A growth of 1 million in the Gold Coast equates to a growth of about 14 million in victoria as a comparision taking into account the fact that every club has a share in the population growth.

11 ways?

1. Carlton
2. Collingwood
3. Essendon
4. Geelong
5. Hawthorn
6. Melbourne
7. North Melbourne
8. Richmond
9. St Kilda
10. Western Bulldogs
11. ????????????????

[philhawk]

do you think the AFL have spent millions on research and are prepared to spend hundreds of millions on a white elephant ???

That's the thing. They are willing to throw millions on a 'white elephant' as you call it.

They want a team to succeed on the Gold Coast and are willing to throw as much money as need be to make it work.

If they stopped for a second and took a humanist view of the situation (rather than an economic view), they'd see that what they are doing is destroying the fabric of a club in the hope that they will succeed in this new region.

Nothing is assured, particularly in the fickle Gold Coast market. But does the possibility of a club succeeding on the Coast justify ripping up a club from it's 140 year old roots to plant in a new area?

[mcgarnacle]

11 ways?

1. Carlton
2. Collingwood
3. Essendon
4. Geelong
5. Hawthorn
6. Melbourne
7. North Melbourne
8. Richmond
9. St Kilda
10. Western Bulldogs
11. ????????????????

i knew some tool would take this literally when i read it. fancy it being a north supporter. the dude made a typo. 10 or 11, its still overcrowded.

[jacko57]

yet every North supporter is the total opposite, don't you see the irony in criticisng him about it :rolleyes:
By 'total opposite', do you mean willing to consider the facts rather than just swallow propaganda about the Gold Coast being a great idea, and the move being inevitable ? :thumbsu::)

[Wildmanwok]

I would like to hear just one reason why. I have not heard any reason why they would be better off in Meblorune

The same reason Sydney wont be better off in Perth.

[relapse]

11 ways?

1. Carlton
2. Collingwood
3. Essendon
4. Geelong
5. Hawthorn
6. Melbourne
7. North Melbourne
8. Richmond
9. St Kilda
10. Western Bulldogs
11. ????????????????

Sorry I meant 10 ways, the issue is still the same though. In the long term a small 10th share in Melbourne will not be better than the Gold Coast, thats the simple truth the club doesnt want it now it just has to ensure that it stays afloat because the AFL wont be throwing it any assistance.

[Father Jack]

Nice work philhawk ; but I learned some time ago that there is no point debating this issue with Mickdog. He is aptly named, because he resembles a dog chasing its own tail.....totally impervious to fact, logic or reason........he believes North should go to the Gold Coast, therefore any argument to the contrary is wrong in his eyes.

Basically, he just doesn't get it.

yet every North supporter is the total opposite, don't you see the irony in criticisng him about it :rolleyes:

This pretty much sums up the argument as was, as is, and as always will be. I checked out that site, you know, the one with the Truth, and found it was pretty much an exercise in wishful thinking despite the capital letter.

[relapse]

By 'total opposite', do you mean willing to consider the facts rather than just swallow propaganda about the Gold Coast being a great idea, and the move being inevitable ? :thumbsu::)

What facts

This is the problem I want to see some facts that prove that North Melbourne in 15-20 years time will be better off remaining in Melbourne than on the Gold Coast.

The melbourne market is exhausted, there is no magic formula for North Melbourne, there is not much potential for growth in supporters or in off the field revenue. That is the facts.

The only facts I hear is that there is some belief that even though for the last couple of decades North have been scraping by that suddenly this is going to change ??? You were the team of the 90s and that hasnt transpired to additional support.

The other fact is that the requirements get larger each year and at a quicker rate than the Melbourne football market is exanding, something has to give soon. There isnt enough room in the current market for 10 victorian teams.

All I hear is propagada about North melbourne will suddenly magically become viable in Melbourne.

Answer me the following :

Why would the AFL be pressuring about the GC IF it
a) wasnt financially viable
b) a 10th victorian team would be more successful than a side on the gold coast in the long term

Explain to me how North would be more successful in off field revenue in a exhausted Melbourne market where they are currently struggling, than in a market where they will have a monopoly in which to grow a successful club ?

Explain to me how the North will be successful when the break even mark for the Telstra Dome is 34,000 yet North arent getting that figure even after a successful 2007 season ??

The last time they averaged over the 34,000 figure was in 1998.

On the gold coast you could most probably make a profit from home games with 18-20k supporters, not to mention the massive upside to off field revenue in an exclusive fast growing market.

At the end of the day, North have made their bed if they die then its death falls on the hands of those that pushed for the board to reject the GC option there can be no blame given to the AFL or anyone of the other clubs now if North dies within the next few years.

[Errol Street]

I really cant understand all this.

If the AFL want us up there, then the pressure will be on the next group (I.E Melbourne and the Bulldogs) Then who after that?

Who determines what makes a club successful? How much profit has to be made?, how many members per club is acceptable for them to be viable?

It will never stop.


FFS we might as well do what the FFA did, disband all teams and then keep all the big money earners, that seems the only way of keeping people happy.

Exactly be very worried Bulldogs and Demon fans. There is no guarantees. The west of Sydney which is pretty much a 2nd city will need a team in the next 10 years if the AFL is serious about the biggest city in Australia which of course they are. If we go then you 2 are the next in line for promotion. All AFL fans should insist on keeping the league as it is.

[Ryz]

For those Pro-GC is your argument based on


- 'North draining AFL finances'

or

- 'growing the game' ?

[Father Jack]

For those Pro-GC is your argument based on


- 'North draining AFL finances'

or

- 'growing the game' ?

a little from column a, and a little from column b. if money is going to be spent, at least spend in an area where there will be some return.

[relapse]

For those Pro-GC is your argument based on


- 'North draining AFL finances'

or

- 'growing the game' ?

Its about the survival and prosperity of the club, most supporters dont want North's history to end up meaning nothing.

North remaining in Melbourne greatly increases the chance of the club going under. It will happen there wont be help from the AFL and the AFL cannot be blamed if North does die its on the hands of those that wanted the club to stay in melbourne, so for everyones sake I hope the club has done the right thing and not make an irresponsible decision that will put the club's future into question.

Its also about pumping money into North with no return, they can spend that money develop the Gold Coast and establish a successful and viable side in the process because if they continue to pump money into North it will continue to go down a black hole and be used solely to keep the club afloat instead of being able to use the money to try and build the club and its supporter base.

[DarwinRoo]

What facts

This is the problem I want to see some facts that prove that North Melbourne in 15-20 years time will be better off remaining in Melbourne than on the Gold Coast.

The melbourne market is exhausted, there is no magic formula for North Melbourne, there is not much potential for growth in supporters or in off the field revenue. That is the facts.

The only facts I hear is that there is some belief that even though for the last couple of decades North have been scraping by that suddenly this is going to change ??? You were the team of the 90s and that hasnt transpired to additional support.

The other fact is that the requirements get larger each year and at a quicker rate than the Melbourne football market is exanding, something has to give soon. There isnt enough room in the current market for 10 victorian teams.

All I hear is propagada about North melbourne will suddenly magically become viable in Melbourne.

Answer me the following :

Why would the AFL be pressuring about the GC IF it
a) wasnt financially viable
b) a 10th victorian team would be more successful than a side on the gold coast in the long term

Explain to me how North would be more successful in off field revenue in a exhausted Melbourne market where they are currently struggling, than in a market where they will have a monopoly in which to grow a successful club ?

Explain to me how the North will be successful when the break even mark for the Telstra Dome is 34,000 yet North arent getting that figure even after a successful 2007 season ??

The last time they averaged over the 34,000 figure was in 1998.

On the gold coast you could most probably make a profit from home games with 18-20k supporters, not to mention the massive upside to off field revenue in an exclusive fast growing market.

At the end of the day, North have made their bed if they die then its death falls on the hands of those that pushed for the board to reject the GC option there can be no blame given to the AFL or anyone of the other clubs now if North dies within the next few years.

A monopoly? So the Gold Coast AFL team will be the only professional team in the region? They wont have to compete with a NRL, A - League, NBL team?

[relapse]

A monopoly? So the Gold Coast AFL team will be the only professional team in the region? They wont have to compete with a NRL, A - League, NBL team?

There is just as much competition in Melbourne, the popularity of the A League and the Melbourne Victory, the storm, Melbourne tigers etc plus having to compete with 9 other Melbourne clubs. There is no potential for future growth in Melbourne and North have decreased over the last 6 years.

Given the size of the clubs in Vic North would have about 6-8 percent of the market that means that growth in melbourne is very limited for a club like North, Collingwood Essendon etc will continue to grow at double the rate widening the gap even further. This means that still out of that 6-8 percent you also have to worry about basketball, rubgy, soccer etc as well just the same as anywhere else. This translates to an additonal 60-80k supporters for North out of each 1,000,000 extra in growth in Melbourne which isnt much.

Its about long term spending and promotion of the game there and the people will come just like in Sydney and Brisbane and they will continue to get bigger as time as goes on.

There has to be more on the table than just North remaining in Melbourne otherwise this movement will sink as quick as the keep south in south movement where they just thought that remaining in Melbourne would fix everything and they had no other plans besides that.

[Doctor Jolly]

When I saw the title of this thread and 3 pages of posts I thought: great, the north fans are putting their case as to how they can survive in Melbourne.

But no, all they want to do is bag other opinions and bag the GC.

So here is your chance: How will North survive in Melbourne?

Please dont say "more members". We all know that the current membership figure is already artificially proped up by roo fans buying multiple memberships, and opposition fans buying membershps to help out.

[jacko57]

Please dont say "more members". We all know that the current membership figure is already artificially proped up by roo fans buying multiple memberships, and opposition fans buying membershps to help out.
We all know that, do we ?

Based on hearsay ? Supposition ? Or it suits you to claim it ?

Or you just a troll ? OR actually an AFL employee ?

[SweetLeftFoot]

I would like to hear just one reason why. I have not heard any reason why they would be better off in Meblorune

Dickmog - I could list a thouands reason, but I'm not going to waste my time on you.

[SweetLeftFoot]

We all know that, do we ?

Based on hearsay ? Supposition ? Or it suits you to claim it ?

Or you just a troll ? OR actually an AFL employee ?

Don't bother mate, BF's four pro-GC evangelists, DogJollier, Dickmog, The_Chud and zeroclues are all over these threads.

We should spend our time making the case we know to be true a reality, and leave these idiots to their own stupidity.

[Father Jack]

Dickmog - I could list a thouands reason, but I'm not going to waste my time on you.

:confused:

That is becoming a mantra for the roos atm. We know, but we aint tellin'. Magic beans, I reckon.

And by God you lot are getting personal with your comebacks.

[SweetLeftFoot]

:confused:

That is becoming a mantra for the roos atm. We know, but we aint tellin'. Magic beans, I reckon.

And by God you lot are getting personal with your comebacks.

If you had top put with Dickmog and his ilk starting a thread a day on this for a year, you'd get frustrated to.

The simple reasons are -

GC is not footy territory. Bears failed there.

QLD is barely footy territory. Lions losing members and money hand over fist.

We get 1.2 from the CBF, which is our money anyway. Moving us to the GC would require 10x that for a lot longer.

We have a far better future in Melbourne if we get our act together, than being properly subsidised on the GC.

This argument about 'spreading the game' is bullshit.

[boncer34]

When I saw the title of this thread and 3 pages of posts I thought: great, the north fans are putting their case as to how they can survive in Melbourne.

But no, all they want to do is bag other opinions and bag the GC.

So here is your chance: How will North survive in Melbourne?

Please dont say "more members". We all know that the current membership figure is already artificially proped up by roo fans buying multiple memberships, and opposition fans buying membershps to help out.

But of course no other clubs supporters do that.:rolleyes:

If you want one reason I suggest you go back to the first page and read Philhawks 3. Although if you'd bothered reading the thread and not just taken yet another cheap shot by trolling you would've already seen them.

[yioughtta]

Please dont say "more members". We all know that the current membership figure is already artificially proped up by roo fans buying multiple memberships, and opposition fans buying membershps to help out.

Here we go again- making ridiculous claims with no actual evidence to back it up. Typical Doctor Jolly.

Let's get fair dinkum here- Doctor Jolly, 'zero' and 'nexus-helen' have no real positive input to add to discussion and should be dismissed as quickly as a Sri Lankan tail-ender.

What's more, we have already established in other threads that Doctor Jolly isn't even a die-hard football fan- he is a social supporter who enjoys the odd game on the telly every couple of weeks. Hasn't been a member for long and didn't even follow AFL ten years ago (let alone Sydney).

Now, I won't be back for a few days because I have exams to focus on. When I get back I want a much better attitude from Doctor Jolly and his cohort of negative nellies.

[relapse]

Don't bother mate, BF's four pro-GC evangelists, DogJollier, Dickmog, The_Chud and zeroclues are all over these threads.

We should spend our time making the case we know to be true a reality, and leave these idiots to their own stupidity.

Stupidity ??

There is no rebuttal except the hope for more members and to stay in melbourne, thats all we are hearing. Trying to shoot down any pro GC comment yet offer nothing about how North will survive in the long term in Melboure. This is what we all want to know is what do North have planned to ensure their viability.

I can tell you right now if that all the supporters are saying we need to stay in Melbourne and have more members that isnt a long term business plan, there has to be clear evidence of how to grow the North brand to make it via that it will attract new supporters and members.

[SweetLeftFoot]

Stupidity ??

There is no rebuttal except the hope for more members and to stay in melbourne, thats all we are hearing. Trying to shoot down any pro GC comment yet offer nothing about how North will survive in the long term in Melboure. This is what we all want to know is what do North have planned to ensure their viability.

I can tell you right now if that all the supporters are saying we need to stay in Melbourne and have more members that isnt a long term business plan, there has to be clear evidence of how to grow the North brand to make it via that it will attract new supporters and members.

I offered clear rebuttal above.

[Black Thunder]

melbourne growth has to be divided 11 ways with North Melbourne sharing the smallest portion of the 11th share. The Melbourne market is already exhausted. A growth of 1 million in the Gold Coast equates to a growth of about 14 million in victoria as a comparision taking into account the fact that every club has a share in the population growth.

i'm gonna come across really picky here but i don't care cause that logic is wrong. forgetting the fact its 10 ways, not 11, its still wrong.

i'll use smaller numbers just cause its easier for everyone (including me).

Melb pop - 3,000. 5 years later - 3,300. growth = 10%
coast pop - 400. 5 years later - 4,800. grwoth = 20%

now you can't divide the growth of melbourne by ten (number of clubs), and get 1% growth that a particular club is fighting over. you have to divide everything by ten.

therefore,
melb area 1 pop - 300. 5 years later - 330. growth is still 10%...
and so on for all clubs....

anyway, that aside.

I don't see why the Gold Coast of all places. I'm being a realist and i can see how hard it's going to be for North to survive. I want them too. I would hate to see them move, but the melbourne market is very crowded.

I just can't see the gold coast working. it's been a death trap for so many teams over the years, including rugby league teams in a rugby league area. only this year are we starting to see that perhaps a rugby league team is viable.

and the population may be rising but is it enough in a non australian rules environment??

in a population of around 500,000 your going to require about 1 in every 20 people go to get a crowd of 25,000 plus opposition supporters (5,000 at the very most)....

that might happen in melbourne but not on the gold coast.

[SweetLeftFoot]

i'm gonna come across really picky here but i don't care cause that logic is wrong. forgetting the fact its 10 ways, not 11, its still wrong.

i'll use smaller numbers just cause its easier for everyone (including me).

Melb pop - 3,000. 5 years later - 3,300. growth = 10%
coast pop - 400. 5 years later - 4,800. grwoth = 20%

now you can't divide the growth of melbourne by ten (number of clubs), and get 1% growth that a particular club is fighting over. you have to divide everything by ten.

therefore,
melb area 1 pop - 300. 5 years later - 330. growth is still 10%...
and so on for all clubs....

anyway, that aside.

I don't see why the Gold Coast of all places. I'm being a realist and i can see how hard it's going to be for North to survive. I want them too. I would hate to see them move, but the melbourne market is very crowded.

I just can't see the gold coast working. it's been a death trap for so many teams over the years, including rugby league teams in a rugby league area. only this year are we starting to see that perhaps a rugby league team is viable.

and the population may be rising but is it enough in a non australian rules environment??

in a population of around 500,000 your going to require about 1 in every 20 people go to get a crowd of 25,000 plus opposition supporters (5,000 at the very most)....

that might happen in melbourne but not on the gold coast.

Good post.

[Father Jack]

If you had top put with Dickmog and his ilk starting a thread a day on this for a year, you'd get frustrated to.

The simple reasons are -

GC is not footy territory. Bears failed there.

QLD is barely footy territory. Lions losing members and money hand over fist.

We get 1.2 from the CBF, which is our money anyway. Moving us to the GC would require 10x that for a lot longer.

We have a far better future in Melbourne if we get our act together, than being properly subsidised on the GC.

This argument about 'spreading the game' is bullshit.

The first point isn't disputed, that is why the AFL wish to develop it, there is some footy support there, and the AFL believe it is worth building on. Forget the Bears, that was different, they were never Gold Coast to start with and as you said RL teams have failed before but that doesn't look like happening this time, showing that just because one team fails doesn't mean they all will. Qld is going quite nicely, as is seen by the increased drafting and I am not certain about the Lions financial position exactly, but do you expect them to fold in the next decade or two? How is the CBF your money anyway? If you were more popular you would get your timeslots or whatever, but guess what? You don't. You are 10th cab off the rank in Melbourne. hence the problem.

The last point may or may not be true. Let's just say that the margin for error is smaller in Melbourne, because you won't have that AFL safety anymore.

[Lach72]

I offered clear rebuttal above.

Not that I saw...

[relapse]

Define huge????????

GC population 2001 census 426,661

2001 Census QuickStats : Gold Coast (C) (Local Government Area)
(http://www.censusdata.abs.gov.au/ABSNavigation/prenav/ProductSelect?newproducttype=QuickStats&btnSelectProduct=View+QuickStats+%3E&collection=Census&period=2001&areacode=LGA33460&geography=&method=&productlabel=&producttype=&topic=&navmapdisplayed=true&javascript=true&breadcrumb=LP&topholder=0&leftholder=0&currentaction=201&action=401&textversion=false)

GC population 2006 census 472,279
2006 Census QuickStats : Gold Coast (C) (Local Government Area)
(http://www.censusdata.abs.gov.au/ABSNavigation/prenav/LocationSearch?locationLastSearchTerm=Gold+Coast&locationSearchTerm=Gold+Coast&newarea=LGA33460&submitbutton=View+QuickStats+%3E&mapdisplay=on&collection=Census&period=2006&areacode=LGA33460&geography=&method=&productlabel=&producttype=QuickStats&topic=&navmapdisplayed=true&javascript=true&breadcrumb=PL&topholder=0&leftholder=0&currentaction=104&action=401&textversion=false&subaction=1)

that's a 10.69% increase over 5 years or an annual compound growth 2.05% compared to the rest of Oz at about 1.2% over the same period. And the Gold Coast's rate of growth has slowed down compared to the previous census periods of approximately 363,000 in 1996 and 295,000 in 1991.

Melbourne's population grew between 2001 and 2006 according to census data from 3,338,704 to 3,592,591 or 7.6%.

So in your own words that's a "huge" difference!

remember though that any growth in melbourne has to be divided 10 ways (even more if you count the supporters there for the interstate sides). North will only see about 6-7% at most of that growth so a 50k population increase on the Gold Coast will provided a similar market as a 600,000-700,000 increase in popluation of Melbourne.

[relapse]

i'm gonna come across really picky here but i don't care cause that logic is wrong. forgetting the fact its 10 ways, not 11, its still wrong.

i'll use smaller numbers just cause its easier for everyone (including me).

Melb pop - 3,000. 5 years later - 3,300. growth = 10%
coast pop - 400. 5 years later - 4,800. grwoth = 20%

now you can't divide the growth of melbourne by ten (number of clubs), and get 1% growth that a particular club is fighting over. you have to divide everything by ten.

therefore,
melb area 1 pop - 300. 5 years later - 330. growth is still 10%...
and so on for all clubs....

anyway, that aside.



You dont see my point, let me simplfy it. This is a common defense for North supporters to say well Melbourne is growing market also. Of the new supporters etc they have to compete with Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon etc etc for them this is why I am saying that people claiming well Melbourne is growing at a rate bigger than the GC therefore Melbourne is a better option is wrong.

So for your example as a compartive rate means that North's growth in Melbourne would be less than 1%. Yes the market has grown 10 percent, but you cant directly compare that figure with the gold coast's figure simply because any growth at the Gold Coast (which will be a monopoly market) will directly increase their potential supporter base whereas any growth in melbourne history shows that the Collingwoods, Essendons of the AFL get most of those supporters and North are getting them at a significantly lower rate than those clubs so any growth in melbourne will continue to further distance between the sides because North arent growth at the same rate as the powerful Melbourne clubs.

Then you factor in the reasech that estimates that North have a base of 210k supporters a 10 percent growth in melbourne will equate to 21k extra supporters. Whereas a 20 percent growth at the gold coast can equate something far higher because they dont really have to compete against rival sides for that market.

[catters05]

I would like to hear just one reason why. I have not heard any reason why they would be better off in Meblorune

A new club is better off on the Gold Coast then North Melbourne.

North Melbourne has its history and supporters

A new club can grow.

[BK Eaglesfan]

These growth figures forget one crucial aspect........the 'type' of person driving the growth.

Where is the growth on the Gold Coast going to come from? Immigration? Wouldn't assume that will create more demand for an AFL team. People coming in from other parts of Queensland, or sea changers from New South Wales? Again, rugby fans who have no interest in the AFL.

Perth has been through this as well, and the lessons learned (or more accurately just the outcomes) provide some interesting reading.

Rugby league - the NRL tried expansion and we got the Western Reds. Attracted the curious for about a year and then interest steadily fell away.

Rugby union - has done much better. This is where growth type comes in. We have lots of English and South Africans settle over here, so the Force have been well received in an AFL state and crowds are solid.

Soccer - getting by on European West Aussies, along with some Aussie soccer fans. I'd say almost half the Glory crowd would be English (and by that I mean born in England). When the Glory used to win, crowds were strong, but when they aren't winning and the theatre goers jump off, crowds are dangerously low.

Basketball - Wildcats went through that massive growth in the early 90's, moved to a bigger venue, and are now back where they started. Again, over a long period, the curious and theatre goers can't be trusted to keep the dollars rolling in.

So growth can be compared to the end of days, but where does the growth come from, and are they likely footy fans? The Kangaroos even with the criticism are drawing crowds higher than I believe can be attracted on the GC long term. If break even point in Melbourne is higher, perhaps that needs to be looked at, but I'd rather see footy played at Telstra Dome than at an amateur looking stadium like Carrara with 14k in the joint because the break even point was lower. Let's just lock out more fans from live action, and make it a full pay TV sport and play all the games at Sandringham if we want to start locking people out of games and sacrifice bums on seats like that.

[Papa G]

If they stopped for a second and took a humanist view of the situation (rather than an economic view), they'd see that what they are doing is destroying the fabric of a club in the hope that they will succeed in this new region.

Nothing is assured, particularly in the fickle Gold Coast market. But does the possibility of a club succeeding on the Coast justify ripping up a club from it's 140 year old roots to plant in a new area?

The VFL/AFL destroyed the fabric of football in WA and SA, didn't see any of you crying over that. The AFL is a big bad business. For all you VFL revisionists this is the ****ing truth of it. North Melbourne are expendable. They are supplementary to the AFL's needs. Tug on the heartstrings all you want, but this is the fact. Sentimentalism is dead. North Melbourne are a failed enterprise that has tried every trick in the book (to their credit) but non have really worked. It took them 50 years in a tinpot suburban competition to win a flag and then it was primarily on the back of star interstate recruits which they ultimately couldn't afford. The other successful period the had was built on the back of the best player of his generation arguably one the best ever, a favourite son, who eventually screwed the club over anyrate. This club can not take a trick. They are gone - relocate or die.

[MickZu]

We all know that, do we ?

Based on hearsay ? Supposition ? Or it suits you to claim it ?

Or you just a troll ? OR actually an AFL employee ?

We know that based on North have bigger membership than the Lions, yet Lions have a better home attendance. Hell, we can get more to Docklands playing Carlton than North can. How is it that a pathetic Lions membership in Melbourne can have more fans turn up to a Carlton match than Kangaroo fans playing the same opponent at the same venue?

[RUNVS]

We know that based on North have bigger membership than the Lions, yet Lions have a better home attendance. Hell, we can get more to Docklands playing Carlton than North can. How is it that a pathetic Lions membership in Melbourne can have more fans turn up to a Carlton match than Kangaroo fans playing the same opponent at the same venue?

True. While membership is a indication on how well a clu is doing it is not telling the full story as there may be alot of supporters who are going to games but havent bought membership.

[MarkT]

I would like to hear just one reason why. I have not heard any reason why they would be better off in MebloruneIt isn’t a question of where the club is better off. The question is this club here or another club there. A relocated North Melbourne is ultimately another club.

I don’t know if a club, per se, would be better of in Melbourne or the Gold Coast but I am positive that this club has only one possible location. Whether they can make a go of it remains to be seen. As for a generic Melb. v GC location, GC has few AFL fans by comparison and unlike any code’s entry into a foreign market has nearby competition. A GCF club would compete with other codes and then with a club from the same comp. an hour away. Being the second arrival they have to be a regional rather State team and they have to convert heathens or sympathisers with existing allegiances.

Frankly I am yet to hear one advantage of a GC team that isn’t based on potential which is speculative at best other than the fact that the AFL will support it for a while.

[Runknisse]

I think there's very few people around that truly want to see the Kangas move interstate. It's a terrible thing to have to do, let alone ponder. It would certainly remove a lot of romance from the Victorian/Melbourne footballing scene that's for sure.

The inevitability is that the Kangaroos are looking down the barrel. The numbers will never support them, whilst the AFL have pretty much stated they're sick of supporting them and have had enough.

But probably the saddest thing for me is that I know so many people over the years who barrack for them and just aren't members or never have been.

Will buying a membership now help? Sadly I just don't think it will anymore.

[Stevie_Crow]

Kangas wil always keep their history. Weather they move to the Gold Coast, or the moon.

Christ, now that would be a home ground advantage

[PumpyChowdown]

Stupidity ??

There is no rebuttal except the hope for more members and to stay in melbourne, thats all we are hearing. Trying to shoot down any pro GC comment yet offer nothing about how North will survive in the long term in Melboure. This is what we all want to know is what do North have planned to ensure their viability.

I can tell you right now if that all the supporters are saying we need to stay in Melbourne and have more members that isnt a long term business plan, there has to be clear evidence of how to grow the North brand to make it via that it will attract new supporters and members.

This is quite possibly the most reasoned, intelligent and logical post I've ever seen on ANY BigFooty forum.

[Mickdog]

Why do you care so much?

Don`t you have something more pressing to concern yourself with than another AFL club?

Too much spare time some of you people.

Because I want a team in West Sydney. If they hurry up and move you lot to the Gold Coast they can concentrate on my new team. You clowns are just holding up the AFL.

[SweetLeftFoot]

Because I want a team in West Sydney. If they hurry up and move you lot to the Gold Coast they can concentrate on my new team. You clowns are just holding up the AFL.

How about you go out to west Sydney and try and get the tackers out there to play footy, rather than lobby for other people's team to be moved there, Dickmog?

[Mickdog]

How about you go out to west Sydney and try and get the tackers out there to play footy, rather than lobby for other people's team to be moved there, Dickmog?

I don't weant other teams moved to West Sydney. I would prefer a new franchise, if it at the expense of a current Melbourne team I really couldn't care less. Melbourneites have enough teams to support.

Basically the sooner the AFL sets up on the GC or the Kangas move there the sooner I get my own team. I can't wait. As for the Kangas either move, merge or die. Its your choice

[rb214]

I don't weant other teams moved to West Sydney. I would prefer a new franchise, if it at the expense of a current Melbourne team I really couldn't care less. Melbourneites have enough teams to support.

Basically the sooner the AFL sets up on the GC or the Kangas move there the sooner I get my own team. I can't wait. As for the Kangas either move, merge or die. Its your choice

Mick knows his stuff.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=308862

[Mickdog]

Mick knows his stuff.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=308862

Once again your debating skills amaze me. Maybe you should try politics

[jacko57]

Once again your debating skills amaze me. Maybe you should try politics
You would be amazed by a piece of paper with 'please turn over' written on both sides.

[Doctor Jolly]

The North supporters here would rather their club die on its knees (begging in Melbourne) than stand on its feet (Pave a future on GC).

I'm coming around to the concept of a new GC club and killing North is probably the best way to go. God knows what damage they'd do the AFL brand if they were "pushed" to the GC. They would seriously cut their nose to spite their face. They've done enough damage in Sydney and Canberra already.