View Full Version : Expansion Go on North...call the AFL's bluff
Wolfmother
31 Oct 2007, 23:03
There is no way the AFL will have a 17th team...
The raising of a 17th AFL team would make things like the fixture, draft, salary cap all very interesting as all AFL calls would be against any concessions to a new club etc etc.
The AFL are trying to bully north up to the GC, if north have the guts to say Stick it nothing will happen...
We can only hope:thumbsu:
If the AFL fail on North, your team will be one of the next in the firing line.
If the AFL fail on North, your team will be one of the next in the firing line.
If the AFL succeed with North, how long until they are looking for a team in West Sydney?
And they'll know full well that the general footy population other than the team and supporters concerned won't give a toss.
Wolfmother
31 Oct 2007, 23:43
If the AFL fail on North, your team will be one of the next in the firing line.
Tell me about it... North is our Mississippi... whilst the AFL is so concerned with them they'll leave us alone.
But all victorian clubs need to be concerned with the bullying tactics used by the AFL (except maybe the big four). As the AFL will do what they want to clubs if this goes through.
Although it never will happen - Say the AFL become disenchanted with Collingwood - so they now make all their games on a Sunday, no FTA games, all home games against the smallest pulling clubs etc etc even Collingwood would lose massive amounts of cash.
The AFL have got to big for there boots and need to pull there heads in with the tactics they are using...
yioughtta
31 Oct 2007, 23:53
The AFL have got to big for there boots and need to pull there heads in with the tactics they are using...
Couldn't agree more.
How ironic that the administration originally formed to look out for the best interests of the clubs, is now trying to control the very clubs who once formed it.
Unbelievable.
And I really hope Demetriou's wife told him tonight how he looked like a goose on tv today. A 120 kg baby who didn't get his way.
I liked a bloke who was on talkback tonight who said Demetriou was acting like a five-year-old child:
'I'm gonna hold my breath until I get my way!'
And this fella runs our country's greatest competition. For shame.
shinboner magic
1 Nov 2007, 00:01
If all or a majority of clubs kick up a stink can they oust the afl head honchos.
Or have the clubs no control of their own destiny.
He doesn't bluff gents, come hell or high water there will be a team on the GC. If it aint the Roos then it will be a new team.
footyfreak
1 Nov 2007, 00:21
There is no way the AFL will have a 17th team...
The raising of a 17th AFL team would make things like the fixture, draft, salary cap all very interesting as all AFL calls would be against any concessions to a new club etc etc.
The AFL are trying to bully north up to the GC, if north have the guts to say Stick it nothing will happen...
We can only hope:thumbsu:
i agree they wont have a 17th team but if north dont go to the GC they may just ensure they die a fast death and put a whole new team up there???
FootyJunkie
1 Nov 2007, 00:40
i agree they wont have a 17th team but if north dont go to the GC they may just ensure they die a fast death and put a whole new team up there???
7 Home games in Melbourne, all at the MCG
- 5 on Sunday Afternoon at 1pm, one on Easter Sunday and Mother's Day
- 2 on Sunday Twilight
4 Home games at the Gold Coast
Away games in...
2 in Perth vs West Coast, Fremantle, Sunday afternoon
2 in Adelaide vs Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Sunday afternoon
1 in Darwin vs W.Bulldogs, only Saturday Night game for the season
1 in Launceton vs Hawthorn, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Geelong vs Geelong, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Canberra vs Melbourne, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Sydney vs Sydney, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Brisbane vs Brisbane, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Melbourne vs St.Kilda, Sunday at 1pm at the MCG
That should do it for season 2009.
Kangas finish 8th, beat Freo in Perth, then West Coast in Perth, then Brisbane in Brisbane, then
draws with Geelong in the Grand Final after being down by 70 points early in the second quarter, but wins the Replay by a point a week later, and Vlad goes back to his home planet a la Poochie the Dog.
7 Home games in Melbourne, all at the MCG
- 5 on Sunday Afternoon at 1pm, one on Easter Sunday and Mother's Day
- 2 on Sunday Twilight
4 Home games at the Gold Coast
Away games in...
2 in Perth vs West Coast, Fremantle, Sunday afternoon
2 in Adelaide vs Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Sunday afternoon
1 in Darwin vs W.Bulldogs, only Saturday Night game for the season
1 in Launceton vs Hawthorn, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Geelong vs Geelong, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Canberra vs Melbourne, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Sydney vs Sydney, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Brisbane vs Brisbane, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Melbourne vs St.Kilda, Sunday at 1pm at the MCG
That should do it for season 2009.
Kangas finish 8th, beat Freo in Perth, then West Coast in Perth, then Brisbane in Brisbane, then
draws with Geelong in the Grand Final after being down by 70 points early in the second quarter, but wins the Replay by a point a week later, and Vlad goes back to his home planet a la Poochie the Dog.
That's the best damn thing I'veread all night!!!
:D:D:D:D
7 Home games in Melbourne, all at the MCG
- 5 on Sunday Afternoon at 1pm, one on Easter Sunday and Mother's Day
- 2 on Sunday Twilight
4 Home games at the Gold Coast
Away games in...
2 in Perth vs West Coast, Fremantle, Sunday afternoon
2 in Adelaide vs Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Sunday afternoon
1 in Darwin vs W.Bulldogs, only Saturday Night game for the season
1 in Launceton vs Hawthorn, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Geelong vs Geelong, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Canberra vs Melbourne, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Sydney vs Sydney, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Brisbane vs Brisbane, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Melbourne vs St.Kilda, Sunday at 1pm at the MCG
That should do it for season 2009.
Kangas finish 8th, beat Freo in Perth, then West Coast in Perth, then Brisbane in Brisbane, then
draws with Geelong in the Grand Final after being down by 70 points early in the second quarter, but wins the Replay by a point a week later, and Vlad goes back to his home planet a la Poochie the Dog.
Geelong fans wont be happy but that'd be great :thumbsu:
yioughtta
1 Nov 2007, 02:40
7 Home games in Melbourne, all at the MCG
- 5 on Sunday Afternoon at 1pm, one on Easter Sunday and Mother's Day
- 2 on Sunday Twilight
4 Home games at the Gold Coast
Away games in...
2 in Perth vs West Coast, Fremantle, Sunday afternoon
2 in Adelaide vs Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Sunday afternoon
1 in Darwin vs W.Bulldogs, only Saturday Night game for the season
1 in Launceton vs Hawthorn, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Geelong vs Geelong, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Canberra vs Melbourne, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Sydney vs Sydney, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Brisbane vs Brisbane, Sunday at 1pm
1 in Melbourne vs St.Kilda, Sunday at 1pm at the MCG
That should do it for season 2009.
Kangas finish 8th, beat Freo in Perth, then West Coast in Perth, then Brisbane in Brisbane, then
draws with Geelong in the Grand Final after being down by 70 points early in the second quarter, but wins the Replay by a point a week later, and Vlad goes back to his home planet a la Poochie the Dog.
You forgot to mention the part where they forget to tell North when compulsory media events are being staged (such as captain's photo shoots etc) and then impose $100,000 fines for North not attending.
its pretty simple. If North dont go, they will lose the AFL's support, finance etc. so they are screwed if they dont do as they are told.
wheres the shinboner spirit when you need it? :D:thumbsu:
Copernicus
1 Nov 2007, 03:17
If North were fair dinkum they'd say 'no' right about now. Let the AFL figure out from now on whether they really want to mess around with a 17th license and all the problems that would impose logistically (byes, all the money they'd need to throw at a start-up, etc.).
I reckon the AFL are bluffing big-time.
wheres the shinboner spirit when you need it? :D:thumbsu:
Do you find this funny?
its pretty simple. If North dont go, they will lose the AFL's support, finance etc. so they are screwed if they dont do as they are told.
wheres the shinboner spirit when you need it? :D:thumbsu:
If the AFL are not "bluffing" North will be gone in a couple of years.
At first glance I'm thinking it's all over for the Roos. They've said no, and Demetriou has said there will be a 17th team if the Roos refuse. They've also said they will continue supporting the Roos financially should they remain in Melbourne.
That's it right? Unless the AFL is bluffing, and as long as the Roos board continues to say no, we're back to square one... with the Roos in Melbourne and the AFL supporting them.
Blah Blah Blue
1 Nov 2007, 08:01
The AFL are not bluffing, despite appearances they are not stupid.
Demitriou was very measured and controlled in his comments. If the indications re North's finances and future income are accurate then even if 17th licence is granted is only a matter of time until we are back to 16 as the AFL will not support North to the same level [financial / fixturing] and they will just run out of puff.
If I was a North supporter I would not be happy with the AFL and would not be keen to move. But if I thought about it, considered Fitzroy then looked forward my mind may change.
A talkback caller, a Roy Boy, lastnight said he wished Fitzroy had moved rather than become a subset of Brisbane. The Fitzroy identity would have been stronger and more people would have felt a stronger bond.
Obviously time and Brisbane's recent success has healed a lot of wounds but the fact is it is Brisbane with a bit of Fitzroy.
I'm fortunate that Carlton is not in North's position and I really feel for the supporters however it is clear that a move to Qld is the only viable LONG TERM option that North have.
Call the AFL's bluff at the risk of being around in 5 / 10 years time.
Do you find this funny?
Nobody finds the North situation funny. It must be a shocking feeling to think your club may have to relocate. I was there when Hawthorn looked like they would merge with melbourne. Personally merger is ten times worse than relocation.
At the end of the day, North's predictment has nothing to do with the AFL. If the club itself was viable and generating sufficient revenue, they would be left alone, however fact is the club just doesn't make enough money and is in a financial mess.
In addition, the ability for the weaker clubs to generate additional revenue from the Victorian market is limited to say the least. There is virtually no spare capacity in Victoria.
If the Kangaroos don't move to the Gold Coast, they AFL will not continue to provide additional assistance to the club. However, this may also be the detriment of the Bulldogs and Demons as this may force the AFL's hand and require all clubs who recieve additional assistance to justify that assistance.
The next month could say alot about where the AFL will be post 2010 and it may have a significant impact not only on the Kangaroos, but on the demons and bulldogs as well.
Unfortunately the writing is on the wall.
Nobody finds the North situation funny. It must be a shocking feeling to think your club may have to relocate. I was there when Hawthorn looked like they would merge with melbourne. Personally merger is ten times worse than relocation.
At the end of the day, North's predictment has nothing to do with the AFL. If the club itself was viable and generating sufficient revenue, they would be left alone, however fact is the club just doesn't make enough money and is in a financial mess.
In addition, the ability for the weaker clubs to generate additional revenue from the Victorian market is limited to say the least. There is virtually no spare capacity in Victoria.
If the Kangaroos don't move to the Gold Coast, they AFL will not continue to provide additional assistance to the club. However, this may also be the detriment of the Bulldogs and Demons as this may force the AFL's hand and require all clubs who recieve additional assistance to justify that assistance.
The next month could say alot about where the AFL will be post 2010 and it may have a significant impact not only on the Kangaroos, but on the demons and bulldogs as well.
Unfortunately the writing is on the wall.
The writing was on the wall for Hawthorn like you said 10 years ago. Same with St Kilda.
Off-field, look where both clubs are now.
Move or die. That's what I read. Vlad was measured, without totally threatening. Still wants it to appear to be a board decision instead of one made by stealth. If North refuse, although in the end I don't think they will, a new team will be created on the Gold Coast and North Melbourne will be killed off Fitzroy style. I'm fairly confident North will come around - what choice do they have?
The afl believe it is in the best financial interests of north to relocate. North believe than can survive in melbourne if they do increase they revenue the question is will it be at another melbourne clubs expense?
I hope we can have all 10 clubs in melborne, but I am sure the afl will create a 17th club if no one goes to the gc
18 th club will have to create prob in sydney 4 to 5 years later, they afl will take its time hoping to increase quality players in the game, but what they will be hoping for is a melbourne club to fold and merge so the comp is not diluted.
the other possibility if we go to 17 or 18 teams a rival tv network may propose a super leauge, this what happened when the nrl went from 16 to 20 teams now they are back to about 16 i think
all i can say is good luck to all
The afl believe it is in the best financial interests of north to relocate. North believe than can survive in melbourne if they do increase they revenue the question is will it be at another melbourne clubs expense?
Are you saying we are the only club that has or does recieve financial assitance?
The Old Dark Navy's
1 Nov 2007, 10:37
If you didn't know, you would never expect Demetriou to be a former North player. Not a lot of heart being displayed here. Business first I guess.
This is an interesting exercise in solidarity. To see Dogs and Dees fans backing the Roos in quite heartening, especially as they know that if the Roos extricate themselves, then the AFL will take a look at their clubs next. Maybe that's the point though ... they know that they might be next on the hitlist for the Sydney market and are hoping that the Roos fans will jump on and help save them when their time comes.
From the point of view of other Melbourne based teams, some have been in that position themselves and could have been in the Roos position if the timing was slightly different. Some may be hoping the Roos are forced to the Gold Coast because that is one less option for their team if they should fall again.
The secure clubs may be hoping for the Roos to go because they are thinking of more space in the Melbourne market increasing their ability to compete with the Eagles and Crows.
If the Roos do have to move, I would feel pretty bad for them, so much so that I would probably switch my secondary allegiance from the Lions to the Roos, buy a membership and head off down to Carrara every fortnight.
Admiration for the BF Roo supporters and the passion this has ignited.
If you didn't know, you would never expect Demetriou to be a former North player. Not a lot of heart being displayed here. Business first I guess.
This is an interesting exercise in solidarity. To see Dogs and Dees fans backing the Roos in quite heartening, especially as they know that if the Roos extricate themselves, then the AFL will take a look at their clubs next. Maybe that's the point though ... they know that they might be next on the hitlist for the Sydney market and are hoping that the Roos fans will jump on and help save them when their time comes.
From the point of view of other Melbourne based teams, some have been in that position themselves and could have been in the Roos position if the timing was slightly different. Some may be hoping the Roos are forced to the Gold Coast because that is one less option for their team if they should fall again.
The secure clubs may be hoping for the Roos to go because they are thinking of more space in the Melbourne market increasing their ability to compete with the Eagles and Crows.
If the Roos do have to move, I would feel pretty bad for them, so much so that I would probably switch my secondary allegiance from the Lions to the Roos, buy a membership and head off down to Carrara every fortnight.
Admiration for the BF Roo supporters and the passion this has ignited.
I wish all football supporters shared your thoughts ODN.
After all, this competition was founded on a family orientated grass roots suburban way of thinking, people feeling part of something a CLUB not a FRANCHISE.
We may all want to rip each others heads off during the season but isn't that what friendly rivalies are for and the reason we part with our hard earned? Why we support our teams?
Cheers for the words of support ODN :thumbsu:
The Old Dark Navy's
1 Nov 2007, 10:58
After all, this competition was founded on a family orientated grass roots suburban way of thinking, people feeling part of something a CLUB not a FRANCHISE.
We may all want to rip each others heads off during the season but isn't that what friendly rivalies are for and the reason we part with our hard earned? Why we support our teams?
When I was a kid, I used to buy Inside Football and cut out pictures from every team. I had 12 sections of wall dedicated to each team, with hand drawn mascots and pictures of their star players. Naturally Carlton had the biggest section of wall, but back then I can honestly say I was in love with the game, the feel of the competition, the adrenaline, the whole package that was the VFL, and every club made up an important part of that.
I may be living in the past but boy do I miss those days .... (can't believe I had anything Collingwood on my wall!!! :eek:)
Truetiger
1 Nov 2007, 11:00
Ok as a member of the Richmond football club currently and back in the times we found it hard money wise etc. I understand what and how the Kangaroos members feel to a limit. It is the best interest of the Kangaroos football club and there members to stick it right up the afl. Come season 2008 I would like to think you have alot of members backing the club even the ones that were not members this year. We need everyone to get onboard and help the club get over this. the last thing we want is another victorian side being forced out. I have a bad feeling if the club dont do what the afl want that it will fold and go under. It wont be an easy time however lets hope you fight this out and not let the afl get what they want most.
CatmanForever
1 Nov 2007, 11:15
The writing was on the wall for Hawthorn like you said 10 years ago. Same with St Kilda.
Off-field, look where both clubs are now.
those clubs had the off-field supporter base to scrape through and survive. The Roos have never had a large supporter base in Melbourne and just because a move is on the cards new members aren't going to magically appear to save the club. I don't see any Richard Pratt style individuals coming to save them with big pockets. The Roos history of low memberships is against them. They are over $4m in debt and get $1.4m per year from the AFL to remain in the competition. I would love the Roos to stay in Melbourne but it just isn't viable for them anymore. They have been trying for the last 5 years to increase memberships and have had little effect. I am sorry but if the Roos don't relocate then I think they will be bankrupt within 5-10 years and then the club will be gone or forced to merge with another club anyway. Why not make the move now with your club culture and history intact and with all the concessions a chance to win a flag in the next few years.
jimmy_clement#8
1 Nov 2007, 11:27
Could the AFL be bluffing? Possibly. But I think its more than reasonable to suggest that the Kangaroos will go away, come back in 30 days, and say they want to stay. They want to stay in Melbourne, and they seem to have resile in saying so, offering up scenarios which will lead to longterm prosperity for the club. The AFL will know this, especially through the vibes and claims thrown up in yesterday's board meeting. Then, it's one hell of a gamble, trying to bluff the Roos into their much less preferred option. If the Roos were on the edge, but not yet over (in their decision to relocate, not their sustainability), then this bluff would be justifiable. But not when they're not close to the edge, in fact about face and trying as hard as they can to walk the opposite direction. Massive gamble.
those clubs had the off-field supporter base to scrape through and survive. The Roos have never had a large supporter base in Melbourne and just because a move is on the cards new members aren't going to magically appear to save the club. I don't see any Richard Pratt style individuals coming to save them with big pockets. The Roos history of low memberships is against them. They are over $4m in debt and get $1.4m per year from the AFL to remain in the competition. I would love the Roos to stay in Melbourne but it just isn't viable for them anymore. They have been trying for the last 5 years to increase memberships and have had little effect. I am sorry but if the Roos don't relocate then I think they will be bankrupt within 5-10 years and then the club will be gone or forced to merge with another club anyway. Why not make the move now with your club culture and history intact and with all the concessions a chance to win a flag in the next few years.
Pro GC people (mostly media) keep towing the line saying they 'think', or there is 'potential'.
The AFL has still not put all the facts on the table, as Damien Barrett pointed out in this article. -
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/foo...E19742,00.html (http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,22683570%255E19742,00.html)
Also concerning that Mayor Ron Clarke simply sees us as a license and a ready made playing list (which there is no guranteeing all players would be part of the moved team :
"They are cutting off their nose to spite their face. I think it would be disappointing (if North Melbourne refused to relocate).
"It would be better to get a team that is up and going, that already had a player list. Let's face it, Brisbane needed the injection of Fitzroy players to get them going properly and Sydney were able to do the same with the Swans."
No one can catergorically say or prove 100% that we aren't viable in Melbourne, currently the facts dont help us, but i'd rather the club take the 2% chance and make a real go of it here than take the cowards way out and simply give up.
jimmy_clement#8
1 Nov 2007, 11:41
Throughout all this, in no capacity take Ron Clarke's comment as anything substantial. This is a man who thinks the Gold Coast should have a 65,000 seat stadium, and should be bidding for an upcoming Olympics. Um, he's a twat. Some stuff he does say has some merit, but on the whole, most of its just garbage. Ignore him from this debate entirely at all costs.
The Chad
1 Nov 2007, 11:48
i find it odd that so many, especially kangaroos football club fans, think it's AFL who are bluffing and north are the ones to call it
i see it as kangaroos football club are the ones bluffing, by putting the club's folding and existence as an entity on the line, and its whether or not the afl has the balls to call it and let them crash and burn on their own steam.
Throughout all this, in no capacity take Ron Clarke's comment as anything substantial. This is a man who thinks the Gold Coast should have a 65,000 seat stadium, and should be bidding for an upcoming Olympics. Um, he's a twat. Some stuff he does say has some merit, but on the whole, most of its just garbage. Ignore him from this debate entirely at all costs.
Well if it talks like a snake, acts like a snake, then it must be a snake.
And we're supposed uproot 150 years of tradition and go into this guy's backyard one of which has major pull - purely based on potential. :thumbsd:
fishmonger
1 Nov 2007, 14:30
Add Gold Coast.
North folds ...
that is 16 teams.
I'm sure the AFL doesn't care about the 20,000 members they'll lose. They'll easily make it back with 20,000 new TV viewers.