Opposition Supporters: Do not buy North memberships.

[MarkT]

Sorry North fans, I’m not trying to derail your efforts. There is NO future in people buying a one off membership to throw some cash into the coffers and give an inflated view of the future. North must make people want to become North fans and North fans become Members. It would be counter productive to inflate membership numbers.

If opposition supporters want to contribute then donate by all means. Set up and opposition supporter’s donation fund to give a real indication of opposition support.

Just my 2 bob’s.

[Ryz]

Sorry North fans, I’m not trying to derail your efforts. There is NO future in people buying a one off membership to throw some cash into the coffers and give an inflated view of the future. North must make people want to become North fans and North fans become Members. It would be counter productive to inflate membership numbers.

If opposition supporters want to contribute then donate by all means. Set up and opposition supporter’s donation fund to give a real indication of opposition support.

Just my 2 bob’s.


Fair point Mark, this might be worth a look at for opposition supporters, although If i can suggest a change of thread title so people know where you're coming from.



http://kangaroos.com.au/kangaroosfc/Community/ArdenStreetRedevelopment/ArdenStreetBuildingFund/tabid/8989/Default.aspx


http://kangaroos.com.au/Portals/0/Images%20Kangaroos/arden_street_redevelopment2.jpg




Arden Street Building Fund


Celebrate our Past. Secure our Future

http://kangaroos.com.au/Portals/0/images/clubs/kangaroos/Ardenstanimation.gif

We need your help and the help of all our Kangaroo members to secure our home – and our future - at Arden Street.

In recent years, our players have endured the worst training facilities in the AFL. Their spirit has been inspiring, but spirit isn’t always enough.

The gap between what the Kangaroo players have and what AFL players today require to prepare, perform, compete and rehabilitate at the highest level is widening as each year passes.

We need to close this gap.

We have received great news with formal commitments from the AFL, Federal Government, State Government and the Melbourne City Council for this project which will result in Arden Street being redeveloped into a modern Training & Administration base.

What are we doing about it?
The Kangaroos are continuing to work with all three parties and we hope to have the details finalised in the coming months. Another feature of this project is that it will bring all coaching, playing and administration staff under the one roof for the first time in 20 years – all working together to build on-field premiership success and a strong off-field future.

Despite having the strong support from the AFL, Federal Government, the City of Melbourne and the State Government we still need the support of our loyal Kangaroos family.

WE NEED YOUR CONTRIBUTION TO SECURE ARDEN STREET AS OUR HOME

How you can help?
We want you to be a part of building and securing our future at Arden Street – a future that will provide Dean, Adam and the boys the modern facilities need to achieve sustained on-field success.

Please help our players & your club by pledging a donation to the Arden Street Building Fund.

How do I pledge?
1. Filling out the donation box at the bottom of your membership form. [N/A obviously]
2. By calling 1300 36 32 31
3. In person at the Roo Shop on Fogarty St.

[evo]

I disagree Mark.

I bought 2 adult memberships last year,and I will again this year.And as long they remain in Melbourne i will continue to do so until they either get back on their feet or shangai'd off.

The only thing the AFL understands is numbers.If I can help North get 2 memberships closer to the goal of 30k where's the harm?

The AFL has gutted 2 Melbourne clubs already-they can get ferked as far as I'm concerned.

[ShanBoi]

If i called up and pledged like 5k, and then didnt pay... what would happen?

[La Vache]

Nope, I'm buying one. And I've just today decided to do it for 5 seasons. Big deal, it's not that expensive and I love my footy. Bottom line - they can count on my support until the club gets their shit together.

[Ryz]

If i called up and pledged like 5k, and then didnt pay... what would happen?


Then you'd prove you are the mindless f**kwit you constantly prove you are.

[xpnorf]

If i called up and pledged like 5k, and then didnt pay... what would happen?You'd confirm a few things that a lot of people already know about you emo girl. :thumbsu:

That and IP addresses.

[DarthTed]

I disagree Mark.

I bought 2 adult memberships last year,and I will again this year.And as long they remain in Melbourne i will continue to do so until they either get back on their feet or shangai'd off.

The only thing the AFL understands is numbers.If I can help North get 2 memberships closer to the goal of 30k where's the harm?

The AFL has gutted 2 Melbourne clubs already-they can get ferked as far as I'm concerned.


That's probably a bit different situation to the people MarkT was referring to. It's the people that would buy one in 2008 and then drop off I would've thought. People like yourself that are prepared to buy memberships in the longer term are certainly helping the club, no doubt.

[The Chad]

there's no better deterrent to buying a kangaroos football club membership than knowing you'll be in any way similar to their "fans"

chances are you'll stop caring about your own team and only go to friday night games. even if you have foxtel you'll probably cancel your subscription just so you can complain about how little your own team is on free to air.

The Chad is committed to buying a membership of the Gold Coast franchise IF it comes it at the expense of kangaroos football club. that is something i can live with.

[blues4flag]

Sorry North fans, I’m not trying to derail your efforts. There is NO future in people buying a one off membership to throw some cash into the coffers and give an inflated view of the future. North must make people want to become North fans and North fans become Members. It would be counter productive to inflate membership numbers.

If opposition supporters want to contribute then donate by all means. Set up and opposition supporter’s donation fund to give a real indication of opposition support.

Just my 2 bob’s.

:thumbsu: :thumbsu:

[The Teflon Dean]

That's probably a bit different situation to the people MarkT was referring to. It's the people that would buy one in 2008 and then drop off I would've thought. People like yourself that are prepared to buy memberships in the longer term are certainly helping the club, no doubt.

Mark T's logic is severely flawed.:thumbsd:

Any donation would see our existing debt diminish and place us in a far stronger position should any future revenue downturn occur.:thumbsu:

[Laurie Bingham]

Disagree completely. I'm disgusted by the AFL's behaviour on this one. It seems they are pointing a gun to the Kangas head on this issue and won't take no for an answer. The Gold Coast is a graveyard for professional sporting teams. We've already had an NRL and an NBL team die there and it almost killed the Bears.

I'm calling on all opposition supporters to put aside their petty differences and buy a Kangaroos membership for as long as it takes. I know I will be.

PS - if the AFL are going to push the Kangaroos to the Gold Coast don't believe for a second that they won't do the same to another club with regard to western Sydney. And unless you support Collingwood or Essendon, maybe Carlton or very maybe Richmond, that club could be yours.

[blues4flag]

Mark T's logic is severely flawed.:thumbsd:

Any donation would see our existing debt diminish and place us in a far stronger position should any future revenue downturn occur.:thumbsu:

Mark, I can't believe someone would take such a cheap swipe at us at a time like this. You are a very sad and ugly human being.:thumbsd:

The problem for the Roos isn't the debt - Carlton had far larger debt and financial woes, yet we were never going to relocate.

The issue with the Roos is the small supporter base, horrid membership figures, poor crowds, TV ratings (granted the draw is against you). Getting short term members is only going to inflate those figures and not be a true indication of the Roos actual membership base.

[mickmartino]

Prior to opposition supporters kicking in money, can someone provide me with the answer as to how much money have Ansett and De Roach (as major shareholders, or any other influential north supporters) have kicked into the club in the last year?

I'm not trying to be 'smart', but I believe it is a valid point if shareholders are not prepared to put their money where their mouth is in the first instance, why should non-supporters?

I'd be happy to help out the kangas in any way, on the proviso they help themselves first..., doesn't look to be happening.

[The Teflon Dean]

The problem for the Roos isn't the debt - Carlton had far larger debt and financial woes, yet we were never going to relocate.

The issue with the Roos is the small supporter base, horrid membership figures, poor crowds, TV ratings (granted the draw is against you). Getting short term members is only going to inflate those figures and not be a true indication of the Roos actual membership base.

No-one knows what the future holds. Any Carlton supporter in the 80's would have LOL if they were told what was laying 20 years ahead of them.

I repeat, any gift given now will result in our debt being somewhat curtailed or totally absolved. This can only place us in a stronger position to manage any future downturn in revenue.

Our hour of need is now, please give anything if you can.:thumbsu:

I know I did, when Footscray, Richmond, StKilda and Fitzroy called on me.

[blues4flag]

No-one knows what the future holds. Any Carlton supporter in the 80's would have LOL if they were told what was laying 20 years ahead of them.


True, but given the Roos huge onfield success in the 90s and minuscule supporter base 7 years on, a Victorian future is looking bleak.

[MarkT]

Mark T's logic is severely flawed.:thumbsd:

Any donation would see our existing debt diminish and place us in a far stronger position should any future revenue downturn occur.:thumbsu:

Mark, I can't believe someone would take such a cheap swipe at us at a time like this. I mean, to be indifferent is one thing but to actively lobby against us is beneath contempt.

You are a very sad and ugly human being.:thumbsd:You don’t get it. Did you even read it?
Do you want to win the battle and lose the war?

I may be ugly but I am not sad.

[The Teflon Dean]

You don’t get it. Did you even read it?

I may have been a little overemotional so I will remove my overreactive comments directed at you and I apologise.:thumbsu:

However, I vehemently disagree with your stance that any short term assistance is futile to our longer term security. That just isn't so.

[The Teflon Dean]

True, but given the Roos huge onfield success in the 90s and minuscule supporter base 7 years on, a Victorian future is looking bleak.


I see plenty of kids in North gear at Auskick clinics. It is still too soon for the flow on effect of the mid to late 90's to have had full effect.

Hawthorn won a flag in 91 and were talking mergers in 1996. It was still some years later before the full effect of their supporter climb was felt.

We have had our wake up call now, all we ask is that we are given a chance.

[Papa G]

I may have been a little overemotional so I will remove my overreactive comments directed at you and I apologise.:thumbsu:

However, I vehemently disagree with your stance that any short term assistance is futile to our longer term security. That just isn't so.

You guys have been accepting short term help since Ansett changed your Structure back in the 1980's and nothing has worked. Sell a game here, whore yourselves out there, change your name, change your guernsey, get paid off, bribed and bent over by the AFL and other clubs, taken it because you had to, accept charity, life support - nothing has changed. The AFL has had enough. It's over. Why the **** would any other supporter want to buy one of your memberships? They should be rejoicing, or are they harking back to the days when they watched Keith Greig in the shadow of the Gasometer? Those days are gone. Dead. Buried. It's over. Embrace the change or die.

[MarkT]

I may have been a little overemotional so I will remove my overreactive comments directed at you and I apologise.:thumbsu: No need to remove anything. It doesn’t bother me. However, I vehemently disagree with your stance that any short term assistance is futile to our longer term security. That just isn't so.Firstly that isn’t my stance. Secondly, your problem is not short term and needs a long term fix. That’s not to say short term help isn’t an important aspect. Money is good. Inflated membership numbers will be counter productive IMO. If your membership goes up and then falls away you will have nowhere to go IMO. In the meantime the board makes the wrong decisions based on false statistics.

Get North people not other Vic club people.

[The Teflon Dean]

No need to remove anything. It doesn’t bother me. Firstly that isn’t my stance. Secondly, your problem is not short term and needs a long term fix. That’s not to say short term help isn’t an important aspect. Money is good. Inflated membership numbers will be counter productive IMO. If your membership goes up and then falls away you will have nowhere to go IMO. In the meantime the board makes the wrong decisions based on false statistics.

Get North people not other Vic club people.

Prove to me using simple numbers that any short term help would not assist any future drop off and I would believe your sincerity.


In the absence of such proof, let others decide for themselves instead of attempting to direct them by starting a counter productive thread.:thumbsu:

[The Teflon Dean]

You guys have been accepting short term help since Ansett changed your Structure back in the 1980's and nothing has worked. Sell a game here, whore yourselves out there, change your name, change your guernsey, get paid off, bribed and bent over by the AFL and other clubs, taken it because you had to, accept charity, life support - nothing has changed. The AFL has had enough. It's over. Why the **** would any other supporter want to buy one of your memberships? They should be rejoicing, or are they harking back to the days when they watched Keith Greig in the shadow of the Gasometer? Those days are gone. Dead. Buried. It's over. Embrace the change or die.

Sweet. Then don't assist us.

Thankfully, plenty others are assisting us.:thumbsu: God bless them.:thumbsu:

[evo]

No need to remove anything. It doesn’t bother me. Firstly that isn’t my stance. Secondly, your problem is not short term and needs a long term fix. That’s not to say short term help isn’t an important aspect. Money is good. Inflated membership numbers will be counter productive IMO. Mark,if I want to help North out financially I have 2 choices.Buy the memberships or donate the money.

The AFL is the 'enemy' -the sword they hang over Norths head is sustainability(or lack thereof)

If I buy the memberships the North board assumes I'm a North supporter,but so does the AFL.The board can use it as just a little more proof of sustainability going forward.

If I just donate the money,then the AFL knows that its temporary,with the membership,they don't.(In fact the AFL will assume it's permanent,I'm 'rusted on')

It's buying time-it could well be futile,but it's something.

[The Zebra]

No need to remove anything. It doesn’t bother me. Firstly that isn’t my stance. Secondly, your problem is not short term and needs a long term fix. That’s not to say short term help isn’t an important aspect. Money is good. Inflated membership numbers will be counter productive IMO. If your membership goes up and then falls away you will have nowhere to go IMO. In the meantime the board makes the wrong decisions based on false statistics.

Get North people not other Vic club people.

Mate we have 30 days.
the problem is going to be whether the shareholders are confident enough to risk their sharehholding by rejecting Vlad's deadline. A surge in membership over the next month will give them that confidence.

And even our boar would not be stupid enough to think that a show of defiance means we are home free. They will realise how close we came to death and will have to work their arses off to stay ahead. they will know that and will be more focused if we reject this deal.

Their is no down side to anone buying memberships, Hawthorn famously had a massive surge - and while numbers dropped - it created vibrancy and a platform.

you have said some good things before and seem cluey, but this time your view is both wrong and patronising, more so becuause you put started a new thread for it.

[giantroo]

True, but given the Roos huge onfield success in the 90s and minuscule supporter base 7 years on, a Victorian future is looking bleak.


Half of us are just turning 18 mate. Most of us would only have just started getting jobs to earn to cash to get a membership.

That's all you blame. The supporters. It's always the supporters fault isn't it? If fat Miller hadn't moved us to play games outside vic, if we hadn't changed our name to Kangaroos and stay as North Melbourne, i reckon we would have surpassed the 35k. The board never cared about the members and until now they still don't.

I can't believe you people just want a club to die. We will die, the first minute we move to GC. Just ask Ron Clarke.

[MarkT]

Mark,if I want to help North out financially I have 2 choices.Buy the memberships or donate the money.Yes. The AFL is the 'enemy' -the sword they hang over Norths head is sustainability(or lack thereof) Yes. If I buy the memberships the North board assumes I'm a North supporter,but so does the AFL.The board can use it as just a little more proof of sustainability going forward. Ok. When you stop buying the memberships what is the message sent then? Oh, well, we tried but these North supporters are fickle and dropped off when they thought the crisis was over. Meanwhile he club makes decisions about funding and long term planning on the basis of membership numbers which are not realistic in the long term. If I just donate the money,then the AFL knows that its temporary,with the membership,they don't.(In fact the AFL will assume it's permanent,I'm 'rusted on')I frankly don’t think the AFL would change it’s view if North’s membership hit 35k+ next week. It's buying time-it could well be futile,but it's something.The money buys the time. The membership actually has a service cost but ignoring that it is counter productive unless you actually support North.

[MarkT]

Mate we have 30 days.
the problem is going to be whether the shareholders are confident enough to risk their sharehholding by rejecting Vlad's deadline. A surge in membership over the next month will give them that confidence.This whole shareholder issue is really something that separately needs to be dealt with. You actually have less chance of making any headway there if everyone jumps on board but that’s a separate issue to an extent. The shareholders have to get the message that if they go they go without members. I actually \think the action faction should set up a trust account for everyone’s membership purchase on the basis that GC is rejected out of hand and forever. Imaging 20,000 memberships swinging on the decision. I could guarantee the result. Their is no down side to anone buying memberships, Hawthorn famously had a massive surge - and while numbers dropped - it created vibrancy and a platform. Hawthorn had a larger but apathetic membership base. you have said some good things before and seem cluey, but this time your view is both wrong and patronising, more so becuause you put started a new thread for it.You are entitled to your view of course. I reckon you need short term funds and long term members.

I started a thread to canvass views.

[moomba]

I'm extremely appreciative of any short term or long term help offered by other teams supporters, and I'd disagree that it is no use for the club.

What I ask of all supporters is the question the propaganda the AFL is putting out, ask yourselves if the AFL is acting in an appropriate manner. Question why the AFL is so desparate to move up to the Gold Coast, and why it must be done by 2010 when in their own words the stadium isn't ready yet. If you're not happy with what you're doing, then get on the radio and say so, or write a letter to the editor. Join us in urging North members to sign up, join us in urging those 50/50 types to fight for their club. One of the thingsthat was spoken about on the North board when we all thought we had jumped a significant hurdle the other day was the need to support other clubs that would find themselves in our position. And I think it's true, they prey on the smaller clubs, and without the support of the general community I think most of the smaller clubs will find it difficult to fight the evil empire of the AFL.

And for those who can see their clubs being railroaded in the not too distant future, I think the time is now to get yourself involved in this. South Melbourne and Fitzroy supporters will probably tell me that the time to Roos get active and angry was over a decade ago and they probably would be right. Prepare yourselves for an assault from the AFL because it will come.

Thats all I ask (but if anyone could spare a few bucks for the club that would be great too ;))

[SweetLeftFoot]

Thanks for your input again Mark.

Remind me who YOU barrack for?

[MarkT]

I'm extremely appreciative of any short term or long term help offered by other teams supporters, and I'd disagree that it is no use for the club. I am not saying don’t support I am saying memberships for opposition supporters is not the mechanism. Obviously, as I expected, there are people that disagree with me.

[The Chad]

Thanks for your input again Mark.

Remind me who YOU barrack for?
not only will it get you nowhere in this thread, it will get kangaroos football club nowhere. irrelevant question

[Mitchell Madness]

I really cannot believe the hysteria about the Kangaroos. They have won 4 premierships, 4! not 5, 6, or even 9! they comment on history, history is not made in 4 or so grand final experiences. History is made in the offices where the management are able to do enough to keep their team financially stable.

Examples - Hawks, financially stable, some history
Dons - Same as hawks
Pies - Same as above.
Blues - until the 2000's were probably the most secure of the lot.


Less history
Stkilda - Not so financially independant
Bulldogs - same as above.
Fitzroy/Brisbane - The merger killed what little history they had from mediocre performances post 1930.

[TheBuzz]

Getting Opposition supporters is a short term fix, which will allow us to get our sh!t in order - Something that we need to allow us to concentrate 100% on the future, & not on looking over our shoulders.

Membership only accounts for 20% of revenue. Sponsorship is much more important & what we will be working on in conjunction with steady growth of our fan base. Strategies linking the two will be what saves us long term.

i.e. We cannot survive long term if we die in the short term.

That is why it will help & people should help if they want to. Complicating how opposition supporters can contribute will act as a deterrant, which is the last thing wanted.

[Abaddon]

Examples - Hawks, financially stable, some history


Hawthorn - a history of playing games in Tasmania. After the Roos move to the Gold Coast, the Hawks should fully relocate (instead of their partial relocation) to Tasmania. Its a national game these days!!!

[Fire]

I really cannot believe the hysteria about the Kangaroos. They have won 4 premierships, 4! not 5, 6, or even 9! they comment on history, history is not made in 4 or so grand final experiences. History is made in the offices where the management are able to do enough to keep their team financially stable.

If you were going to help out the North Melbourne Football Club, then you should reconsider spending youe $20 to buy a dictionary and look up the word 'history'.

[Helix]

If they come to the Gold Coast, I'll buy a membership.

[Jimmy's Hot Dogs]

If they come to the Gold Coast, I'll buy a membership.

But would you change who you barrack for?

[Helix]

But would you change who you barrack for?

Probably not. I would prefer a new licence.

[Peacock]

If fat Miller hadn't moved us to play games outside vic, if we hadn't changed our name to Kangaroos and stay as North Melbourne, i reckon we would have surpassed the 35k. The board never cared about the members and until now they still don't.

I can't believe you people just want a club to die. We will die, the first minute we move to GC. Just ask Ron Clarke.

Two Vic teams currently have memberships over 35,000 and you reckon if you were still called North Melbourne and didn't sell a few home games each year you would be a third? :rolleyes:

And how stupid of Ron Clarke to say a club based on the Gold Coast should be called the Gold Coast and not North Melbourne. :rolleyes:

[moomba]

And how stupid of Ron Clarke to say a club based on the Gold Coast should be called the Gold Coast and not North Melbourne. :rolleyes:


And how stupid of you to expect that supporters of any club would be happy for it to change their name to that of a town 1400 miles away.

[Doctor Jolly]

Membership only accounts for 20% of revenue. Sponsorship is much more important & what we will be working on in conjunction with steady growth of our fan base. Strategies linking the two will be what saves us long term.


If membership is only `1/5th of revenue, why does the "gold coast truth" website devote so much time comparing membership numbers with the Brisbane lions*. If, as you say, sponsorship is much more important, why doesnt this "truth" site compare sponsorship revenue ?

Note: * - Brisbane may only have 15000 members, but it averages close to 30,000 fans each home game when every game is against an interstate side.

[melb_will]

Getting Opposition supporters is a short term fix, which will allow us to get our sh!t in order - Something that we need to allow us to concentrate 100% on the future, & not on looking over our shoulders.

Membership only accounts for 20% of revenue. Sponsorship is much more important & what we will be working on in conjunction with steady growth of our fan base. Strategies linking the two will be what saves us long term.

i.e. We cannot survive long term if we die in the short term.

That is why it will help & people should help if they want to. Complicating how opposition supporters can contribute will act as a deterrant, which is the last thing wanted.

Second time i've read that in this thread. I think the problem is that in the past 10 - 15 years the Kangas have proved unable to get their shit together off field. We hear all this stuff about how the kangas can't afford to draft youth because all thier supporters will give up and stop buying memberships. Yet all of a sudden we see this massive groundswell of North supporters happy to risk the extinction of their club (at an AFL level and please don't try to argue this isn't at least a risk) to see them stay in Melbourne.

So for the past 10-15 years the club hasn't understood the supporters. No one has done anything productive off field. Buying a membership in the next 30 days isn't going to change anything. It will just postpone the inevitable.

If north wants to stay in melbourne the next 30 days needs to see it develop a plan that leads to it being finanically self sustainable (in the forseeable future, 5 - 10 years whatever) getting the group of people together to do it not getting a bunch of short term members.

The debt isn't a problem. Its only 4.5 million if the AFL and the other clubs thought that North was a long term proposition they would just pay off the debt.

Sorry for the rant, MarkT great post,

[Murray]

Second time i've read that in this thread. I think the problem is that in the past 10 - 15 years the Kangas have proved unable to get their shit together off field. We hear all this stuff about how the kangas can't afford to draft youth because all thier supporters will give up and stop buying memberships. Yet all of a sudden we see this massive groundswell of North supporters happy to risk the extinction of their club (at an AFL level and please don't try to argue this isn't at least a risk) to see them stay in Melbourne.

So for the past 10-15 years the club hasn't understood the supporters. No one has done anything productive off field. Buying a membership in the next 30 days isn't going to change anything. It will just postpone the inevitable.

If north wants to stay in melbourne the next 30 days needs to see it develop a plan that leads to it being finanically self sustainable (in the forseeable future, 5 - 10 years whatever) getting the group of people together to do it not getting a bunch of short term members.

The debt isn't a problem. Its only 4.5 million if the AFL and the other clubs thought that North was a long term proposition they would just pay off the debt.

Sorry for the rant, MarkT great post,


Great post and spot on :thumbsu:

[Errol Street]

there's no better deterrent to buying a kangaroos football club membership than knowing you'll be in any way similar to their "fans"

chances are you'll stop caring about your own team and only go to friday night games. even if you have foxtel you'll probably cancel your subscription just so you can complain about how little your own team is on free to air.

The Chad is committed to buying a membership of the Gold Coast franchise IF it comes it at the expense of kangaroos football club. that is something i can live with.

You are an embarassment to Hawthor ******.

[VanBerlo=God]

Half of us are just turning 18 mate. Most of us would only have just started getting jobs to earn to cash to get a membership.

That's all you blame. The supporters. It's always the supporters fault isn't it? If fat Miller hadn't moved us to play games outside vic, if we hadn't changed our name to Kangaroos and stay as North Melbourne, i reckon we would have surpassed the 35k. The board never cared about the members and until now they still don't.

I can't believe you people just want a club to die. We will die, the first minute we move to GC. Just ask Ron Clarke.
you're already dead, the brain just hasn't caught onto it yet.

[giantroo]

Two Vic teams currently have memberships over 35,000 and you reckon if you were still called North Melbourne and didn't sell a few home games each year you would be a third? :rolleyes:

And how stupid of Ron Clarke to say a club based on the Gold Coast should be called the Gold Coast and not North Melbourne. :rolleyes:

Yes of course i would. You just have to look at Collingwood and where they were before Eddie came in. You don't have to change your name to capture an audience from around the country. The pies have great supporter bases in WA and QLD yet their name is still Collingwood.

What, you expect us to give up 140 years of history you peakcock?

[The Majestic]

Mark T's logic is severely flawed.:thumbsd:

Any donation would see our existing debt diminish and place us in a far stronger position should any future revenue downturn occur.:thumbsu:

What North Melbourne needs is their own supporters becoming members to help keep the club alive, not a dozen one offs that will not help the future. I am all for people donating to the club, but not by buying memberships that should be left for the supporters to do so.

[The Majestic]

Hawthorn - a history of playing games in Tasmania. After the Roos move to the Gold Coast, the Hawks should fully relocate (instead of their partial relocation) to Tasmania. Its a national game these days!!!

I'd hate to see that personally, if we were to have an AFL team here I would rather we have our own, a Tasmania that will play under the banner of Tasmania not a team with such a rich history elsewhere. I am not a fan of Hawthorn and really would not go and watch their games unless my team was playing, however I do like that Tasmania gets some AFL games here, but I would hate for Hawthorn to be a permanent team here.

[Rob]

Yes of course i would. You just have to look at Collingwood and where they were before Eddie came in. You don't have to change your name to capture an audience from around the country. The pies have great supporter bases in WA and QLD yet their name is still Collingwood.


1) Collingwood always had a huge supporter base.
2) Your support base has always been pathetic. Prior to the 'name change' it was pathetic. Prior to the move to play home games interstate, it was still pathetic. It's not like the fans jumped off, they were never there to begin with.

So the question is: How the hell can you possibly compare your club to Collingwood?

Fair dinkum, I can see why you guys are pissed off, but your brains are getting fried.

[DarwinRoo]

1) Collingwood always had a huge supporter base.
2) Your support base has always been pathetic. Prior to the 'name change' it was pathetic. Prior to the move to play home games interstate, it was still pathetic. It's not like the fans jumped off, they were never there to begin with.

So the question is: How the hell can you possibly compare your club to Collingwood?

Fair dinkum, I can see why you guys are pissed off, but your brains are getting fried.

Yeah who would want to be compared to a team that has only won 3 flags since 1936.

[moomba]

I'm happy for us to find our niche alongside as a viable club alongside the Footscrays and the Melbournes of the comp. Then the next step is try and build ourselves up toward Hawthorns, Geelong and St Kildas off field performances.

I don't expect we'll ever reach the upper end of the market in terms of money and supporter base. But I'm fine with that, every sporting competition has the haves and the have nots, and if the have nots disappear there will just be another bunch that are relegated to that position.

The great thing about the sport is that unlike the premier league for example a "have not" can still go into a competition with realistic objectives of success.

[BK Eaglesfan]

I'd hate to see that personally, if we were to have an AFL team here I would rather we have our own, a Tasmania that will play under the banner of Tasmania not a team with such a rich history elsewhere. I am not a fan of Hawthorn and really would not go and watch their games unless my team was playing, however I do like that Tasmania gets some AFL games here, but I would hate for Hawthorn to be a permanent team here.

And here ladies and gentlemen is part of the problem with the Roos to GC push. In a generation or so, perhaps the largely rugby supporting people of the GC will have forgotten that their 'local' team is actually North Melbourne. But in the short term, Gold Coast AFL fans are not going to suddenly forget they don't like the Kangaroos because they follow someone else and jump on.

Brisbane have been Ok, AFTER they moved away from the GC, and because they were a Queensland team from day one. They then gained a handful of Fitzroy supporters as well to 'top up' their supporter base,s particularly in Melbourne.

The Eagles and Crows were brand new teams that developed a set of supporters happy to see their state with a representative in the AFL (not suggesting they directly represented THE STATE as a whole touchy Dockers and Power fans ;) ).

Sydney took a long while to come good, and if they were losing now, what would the crowds be? They kept some South Melbourne fans, but they also relocated when it was a Melbourne only comp. The game wasn't national back then. Scary thing is, if the Swans were poor on field now, I believe crowds would fall, and they are the only team in town in the biggest city in the country.

In this day and age, with the Lions already in town, why would Gold Coast people suddenly forget their loyalties on jump on the Kangaroos who they have barracked against for several years? Why do we even want two teams in a state with similar populations as W.A and S.A, yet not even half the football passion?

I get the whole 'it will only take a crowd of x to be profitable on the GC, versus a crowd of y in Melbourne, but as a set of football supporters (which I would hope we are in here) are we happy to see how ever many true supporters are disenfranchised by this move, so a team can play in front of 15k odd crowds but turn a profit. As a footy supporter, I'd rather see a bunch of supporters who actually follow the game and have done for years keep their team and make a lesser dollar amount with a crowd of 35k at the home of football, than pander to a bunch of theatre goers who need something to entertain them when the local rugby team is losing and make a bit more.

[MarkT]

Yeah who would want to be compared to a team that has only won 3 flags since 1936.? You’ve won 4. Hardly a massive increase on 3.

[MarkT]

Mooma, within any foreseeable timeframe North cannot compete off field with Adelaide, WCE, Freo, Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton or Richmond. Granted these clubs could strike hard times due to poor management and you could do better for a period but they obviously have the supporter numbers to keep them on a different level long term.

The rest are reachable with the possible exception of St. Kilda. St. Kilda has had virtually no success and a running joke of an administration with minor punctuations of competency and even they have been clouded. They have a large following though and a massive geographical area to work with without any real competition. They don’t actually work that area but I live in it and there is loyalty there. If they ever got their act together for any sustainable period they could be a very big club. Working against them will be the AFL rules though. If is hard to sustain success al-la Hawthorn of the 70s to 90. Hawthorn will be the last club to move up a level due to long running premiership success.

Point is, there are less teams that are unreachable than make for a viable competition.

The EPL comparisons are flawed on many levels. There is a lot more to it than salary cap and draft. The economics are massively different and we don’t have external competition or private ownership. Well not like they do. That said, the current model is forcing my club to build massive wealth it can’t spend. In 5 years Collingwood will probably turn over in excess of 50m and make a $5m profit in a bad on field year in spite of running a very expensive football department. If the AFL ever brings in a cap on football departments a few clubs will end up able to combine resources in excess of that of the AFL.

[Rooboy 96]

I'd hate to see that personally, if we were to have an AFL team here I would rather we have our own, a Tasmania that will play under the banner of Tasmania not a team with such a rich history elsewhere. I am not a fan of Hawthorn and really would not go and watch their games unless my team was playing, however I do like that Tasmania gets some AFL games here, but I would hate for Hawthorn to be a permanent team here.

I wonder how many Gold Coast people agree with your sentiments???

[Rooboy 96]

1) Collingwood always had a huge supporter base.
2) Your support base has always been pathetic. Prior to the 'name change' it was pathetic. Prior to the move to play home games interstate, it was still pathetic. It's not like the fans jumped off, they were never there to begin with.


supporter base or members... don't you dare try to tell me these decisions have not had an effect on our membership... they are the reason we have the biggest churn rate in the league... this is where we have to start our fight... the churn rate...

my belief is this is similar to a revolution and it is either black or white... Melbourne or the Gold Coast no 4.. 5.. 6.. 7.. games on the Gold Coast and the rest in Melbourne... North supporters a fed up with this and want their club back in Melbourne... it is time to tell the league to Piss off... and swim or sink... at least if we die we die with the same spirit our team plays with... I am happy to roll the dice...

like I have said many times... if we die... I have seen more Premierships won by my team then MarkT has seen won by his team... and the Pies will never get a chance to redeem themselves for 77... and 80...


I still don't get it to be honest... how much were the TV rights sold for again??? and one of the clubs has a debt of how much??? I think the league is just being miserable... Like MarkT has said half the clubs can look after themselves easily...

[Rooboy 96]

you're already dead, the brain just hasn't caught onto it yet.

your little picture... is that you after the 96 grand final???

[Rob]

supporter base or members... don't you dare try to tell me these decisions have not had an effect on our membership...


There's no evidence of it. It's not like North had a huge support base in the past and it's declined. If anything, their support base has increased substantially since the early 90's.


they are the reason we have the biggest churn rate in the league... this is where we have to start our fight... the churn rate...


Got a source for that? I'd say North's membership system probably isn't complex enough to recognise that a member might be the same as last year but with a different address.

[Rooboy 96]

There's no evidence of it. It's not like North had a huge support base in the past and it's declined. If anything, their support base has increased substantially since the early 90's.

Got a source for that? I'd say North's membership system probably isn't complex enough to recognise that a member might be the same as last year but with a different address.

I just don't get people like you either Rob... why is this your problem??? are you one of the many generous fans who have jumped on board??? I doubt it... so why all the hysteria...

and as you say "their support base has increased substantially since the early 90's." so why not just give JB RJ Arch and DP a chance??? worried that you may be proven wrong... like I said I am happy for the club I have supported for the last 38 years and been a member of for the last 34 years... to roll the dice one more time...

what I would like to know is what have you personally got to lose???

[The Teflon Dean]

what I would like to know is what have you personally got to lose???

I'd guess his motive is deflection. His own club has never managed to budge the 45K mark and he has the audacity to point the finger at us. Hypocrite!

All Time Largest Attendances v Opposition – All Venues

Club Crowd Venue Year Round

Adelaide 45,436 AAMI Stadium 2003 1
Brisbane 34,143 Subiaco Oval 2005 11
Carlton 36,056 Subiaco Oval 2005 5
Collingwood 40,964 MCG 2003 15
Essendon 42,256 Telstra Dome 2003 21
Geelong 35,021 Subiaco Oval 2004 5
Hawthorn 39,735 Waverley Park 1998 22
Kangaroos 37,077 Subiaco Oval 2004 15
Melbourne 36,244 Subiaco Oval 2006 16
Port Adelaide 41,518 AAMI Stadium 2005 22
Richmond 36,032 Subiaco Oval 2006 10
St Kilda 39,931 Subiaco Oval 2004 7
Sydney 35,037 Subiaco Oval 2004 17
West Coast 43,527 Subiaco Oval 2006 21
Western Bulldogs 35,518 Subiaco Oval 2003 20

[Rooboy 96]

I'd guess his motive is deflection. His own club has never managed to budge the 45K mark and he has the audacity to point the finger at us. Hypocrite!

All Time Largest Attendances v Opposition – All Venues

Club Crowd Venue Year Round

Adelaide 45,436 AAMI Stadium 2003 1
Brisbane 34,143 Subiaco Oval 2005 11
Carlton 36,056 Subiaco Oval 2005 5
Collingwood 40,964 MCG 2003 15
Essendon 42,256 Telstra Dome 2003 21
Geelong 35,021 Subiaco Oval 2004 5
Hawthorn 39,735 Waverley Park 1998 22
Kangaroos 37,077 Subiaco Oval 2004 15
Melbourne 36,244 Subiaco Oval 2006 16
Port Adelaide 41,518 AAMI Stadium 2005 22
Richmond 36,032 Subiaco Oval 2006 10
St Kilda 39,931 Subiaco Oval 2004 7
Sydney 35,037 Subiaco Oval 2004 17
West Coast 43,527 Subiaco Oval 2006 21
Western Bulldogs 35,518 Subiaco Oval 2003 20


Collingwood 40,964
Kangaroos 37,077

Crikey they are woeful attendance figure... especially when these are their all time best figures... surely one of their games v Collingwood have got closer to the 50,000 mark??? and to think the record against little old North is only 3900 less then the pies...

now I understand why he is ranting so much... :D:D

it paints the picture of a club that no-one bar their own supporters care about...

[The Teflon Dean]

Collingwood 40,964
Kangaroos 37,077

Crikey they are woeful attendance figure... especially when these are their all time best figures... surely one of their games v Collingwood have got closer to the 50,000 mark??? and to think the record against little old North is only 3900 less then the pies...

now I understand why he is ranting so much... :D:D

Fremantle = AFL parasites.:thumbsd:

Kick them out.:thumbsu:

[Doctor Jolly]

Collingwood 40,964
Kangaroos 37,077

Crikey

Collingwoods figure is at the MCG where they are all likely to be Pie supporters.
Kangaroos figure is at Subi where they are all likely to be Freo supporters.

Talk about comparing apples to oranges.

Compare Freo v North crowds in Perth vs Melbourne (or wherever you've flogged off your home games to that year).

[The Teflon Dean]

Collingwoods figure is at the MCG where they are all likely to be Pie supporters.

Yep, Freo couldn't even crack 40K at home against the biggest club in the country.:p

Pathetic.:thumbsd:

North record HOME crowd against Collingwood must be near 80,000.:)

All the more reason to keep North in Melbourne.:):thumbsu:

[Rooboy 96]

Collingwoods figure is at the MCG where they are all likely to be Pie supporters.
Kangaroos figure is at Subi where they are all likely to be Freo supporters.

Talk about comparing apples to oranges.

Compare Freo v North crowds in Perth vs Melbourne (or wherever you've flogged off your home games to that year).


you are a very sad person... was it $10000 for Carey and $20000 for Longmire or the other way round???

maybe the league should have closed Sydney down the day it had to sell the greatest footballer of all time for $10000 just to balance their books... :D:D

[Rob]

I just don't get people like you either Rob... why is this your problem??? are you one of the many generous fans who have jumped on board??? I doubt it... so why all the hysteria...


I'm not hysterical about it at all. I'm pretty rational.


and as you say "their support base has increased substantially since the early 90's." so why not just give JB RJ Arch and DP a chance??? worried that you may be proven wrong... like I said I am happy for the club I have supported for the last 38 years and been a member of for the last 34 years... to roll the dice one more time...


And if the club continues to make big losses and is still totally reliant on AFL handouts, you'll come quietly? :rolleyes:
Fair dinkum, your club needs about $3 million a year just to cover the handouts, leaving them in the same position they are now. And they're basically insolvent now.


what I would like to know is what have you personally got to lose???

Personally? Nothing. But I care about the game, and I don't want to see a club get picked over by creditors in a few years like vultures at a carcass, further alienating their supporters from the game and leaving them with nothing.

[Rob]

Fremantle = AFL parasites.:thumbsd:

Kick them out.:thumbsu:

We might have a completely sh*thouse team, but we're in absolutely no danger of leaving the league.

God that must really hurt you.

[The Zebra]

Personally? Nothing. But I care about the game, and I don't want to see a club get picked over by creditors in a few years like vultures at a carcass, further alienating their supporters from the game and leaving them with nothing.

Wow man, that is really touching.

And a complete load of crap.

[Rooboy 96]

I'm not hysterical about it at all. I'm pretty rational.

you seem to be posting alot about this subject considering it really has bugger all to do with you or your team...




And if the club continues to make big losses and is still totally reliant on AFL handouts, you'll come quietly? :rolleyes:
Fair dinkum, your club needs about $3 million a year just to cover the handouts, leaving them in the same position they are now. And they're basically insolvent now.

that same position that has won two premierships in the last 12 years... pretty shite position... your mob would die to be in that position...


Personally? Nothing. But I care about the game, and I don't want to see a club get picked over by creditors in a few years like vultures at a carcass, further alienating their supporters from the game and leaving them with nothing.

that really is a decision for us the members and supporters of North Melbourne... if we die so be it... it wont be that much different to going to the Gold Coast... it should be our decision not yours... but thanks for caring so much... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Rooboy 96]

We might have a completely sh*thouse team, but we're in absolutely no danger of leaving the league.

God that must really hurt you.

as far as I am concerned if in 100 you want to be the St Kilda of the AFL so be it... but to me I would prefer to have a team that at least contests... something you do not have... Cheers Rooboy 96...

[Rob]

as far as I am concerned if in 100 you want to be the St Kilda of the AFL so be it... but to me I would prefer to have a team that at least contests... something you do not have... Cheers Rooboy 96...

Of course I don't, but it's not a choice between one or the other. Clubs are hardly going to try and operate like an amateur club in the pursuit of on field excellence.
I'm just lucky my club has a lot of supporters.

[Rob]

you seem to be posting alot about this subject considering it really has bugger all to do with you or your team...


It's a topic I take interest in because I take interest in the future direction of our game. My interest in the game doesn't start and finish at my club.


that same position that has won two premierships in the last 12 years... pretty shite position... your mob would die to be in that position...


Actually, if we were in that position, we'd probably make enough profit in a year to cover your clubs entire debts.


that really is a decision for us the members and supporters of North Melbourne... if we die so be it... it wont be that much different to going to the Gold Coast... it should be our decision not yours... but thanks for caring so much... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Never suggested differently. Your club can decide whatever it wants to. But it'd be nice if a lot of your fellow supporters would take their heads out of their arses and at least acknowledge that should they choose to not accept the AFL's offer (whatever it is - i'm certainly no fan of how the AFL has gone about this), then it's highly likely that the situation could get really nasty.

And strangely enough, you've got about as much say about it as I do. The members and supporters have very little to do with the decision in a shareholder based company.

[Moo]

I'd guess his motive is deflection. His own club has never managed to budge the 45K mark and he has the audacity to point the finger at us. Hypocrite!


Yeah Freo are such a rabble in the membership and profit side of the game?

Foolish comments - stick to the topic and don't attack other clubs on anything to do with numbers. If you do how abput this ....we make a profit every year and you take profits every year.

If you had our supporter base (remembering we have won zip in our life to date) - you wouldn't be asking for me to buy a membership to your club.

I didn't like the Dockers tag when we first came into the comp ....didn't stop me from signing up, yet you tell me people jumped off when the team changed its name to the Roos - perhaps you should vent on those weak ****s rather than the Fremantle Football Club.

I don't wish harm on your club but lay off mine.

[The Majestic]

I wonder how many Gold Coast people agree with your sentiments???


I wonder how many Tasmanians would agree with my sentiments, but I am not trying to have a dig at anyone, or any club. I just feel that if Tasmania was to gain a team in the AFL it would be our own, built on the back if the tradition that the great Tasmanian footballers have built.

As much as I would love a Tasmanian team it will never happen, at least with the few games we get here each year AFL followers in this state get to see a little. I just wish Collingwood were given a Pre-season cup game here I would love to see it.

[SweetLeftFoot]

Yeah Freo are such a rabble in the membership and profit side of the game?

Foolish comments - stick to the topic and don't attack other clubs on anything to do with numbers. If you do how abput this ....we make a profit every year and you take profits every year.

If you had our supporter base (remembering we have won zip in our life to date) - you wouldn't be asking for me to buy a membership to your club.

I didn't like the Dockers tag when we first came into the comp ....didn't stop me from signing up, yet you tell me people jumped off when the team changed its name to the Roos - perhaps you should vent on those weak ****s rather than the Fremantle Football Club.

I don't wish harm on your club but lay off mine.

Would you swap your last 13 years of profitless failure verging occassionally on mediocrity with our last 13 where we've had to fight and scrape every inch but won two flags and played finals more often than not?

[frankc]

Sorry North fans, I’m not trying to derail your efforts. There is NO future in people buying a one off membership to throw some cash into the coffers and give an inflated view of the future. North must make people want to become North fans and North fans become Members. It would be counter productive to inflate membership numbers.

If opposition supporters want to contribute then donate by all means. Set up and opposition supporter’s donation fund to give a real indication of opposition support.

Just my 2 bob’s.

Agree 100%. if I am feeling generous, I'll buy a second hawk membership. Ultimately however, opposition supporters purchasing NMFC memberships will not make them sustainable.

Membership income is progressively representing less and less of a clubs total revenue; at Hawthorn it is around 20% and Collingwood I think 10%. For clubs to be sustainable they must generate revenue from non-membership sources. This is what the NMFC can't do.

[frankc]

Would you swap your last 13 years of profitless failure verging occassionally on mediocrity with our last 13 where we've had to fight and scrape every inch but won two flags and played finals more often than not?

yeah and for what - two premierships is great, but your club is dying and not even premiership success and continual finals campaigns is stopping that. This is the real concern; despite your club having a period of relative success, you just can't cut the mustard.

The acid test for the NMFC will be 2008, if they can't significantly increase your membership given your 3rd place finish and the massive threat of relocation, then NMFC have no hope.

I would much rather ber a freo supporter at present than a NMFC supporter.

[Moo]

Would you swap your last 13 years of profitless failure verging occassionally on mediocrity with our last 13 where we've had to fight and scrape ...more than every inch but won two flags and played finals more often than not?

No mate - our last 13 years we have fought tooth and nail and formed the platform of a great club. Our suffering has ensured that the fans that are with us are pretty full on Freo.

We also will never have our place under threat .....13 terrible years and a membership of 43 343...3rd highest in the league. Imagine if we get our act together on the field.

So whilst why I'd love a flag ....I can wait for that.

[Hearts to hearts]

Membership income is progressively representing less and less of a clubs total revenue; at Hawthorn it is around 20% and Collingwood I think 10%. For clubs to be sustainable they must generate revenue from non-membership sources. This is what the NMFC can't do.

Very good point. Non-footy income is the way to sustain financial stability and North needs to address it better than in the past. Having a clearer focus on where they are going could only help - and either way, they should have that soon.

Membership is still important - it's self-generating that if you have more members, media talks you up, you get more sponsors, you get bigger crowds, you get more TV and you are in a virtuous cycle.

On the OP, it's great if opposition supporters want to pitch in to help us out this year. Only sustained commitment from North people as members, coterie members, sponsors and other financial backers will really rescue the club long term. But we'll take any help we can get right now to haul ourselves up of the sea into a lifeboat.